/lit/ - Literature

>>13611167
well girls being virgins when they get married was perfectly sensible in the days when there wasn’t any birth control

>>13611167
Sounds like you're trying to find a cope for the fact you're a virgin, in which case it'd be better to read philosophy that doesn't make you a coping faggot and/or have sex

>>13611182
It still makes sense nowadays to prefer to marry virgins. Only problem is, virgin women are kind of hard to find.

>>13611288
>kind of hard to find
Understatement of the year, it's damn well near impossible. Even the most devout young Christian women have had at least one penis inside them already. The only way you'll get a virgin is if you convert to Islam, but fuck that shit.

>>13611288
no, now it's totally outdated. it's only silly people & those types wtih creepy behaviour about it who are into the idea today

>>13611676
Women who marry virgin statistically have happier and more successful marriages than the others, even after controlling for religiosity. They also have lower rates of cheating.

So, it is completely rational and not outdated to prefer to marry virgin women.

>>13611284
Are you on your period sweetie? Maybe you should dilate.

>>13611694
so your point is 'statistically virgins have happier marriages so i'll only marry a virgin'? think that puts you in the second catefory

>>13611711
This is your brain on porn, degeneracy and excess ejaculations, everyone. As a burned-out ex-porn-addict and ex-pussy-addict, I can vouch that celibacy is the simplest, purest, most spiritual way to live. Conjugal fidelity is fine, but still inferior if you can control your lust. If you sleep around expect to never truly love, feel awake, or be happy.

>>13611777
mister thomas hardy said a lover without indiscretion is no lover at all.

>>13611167
You can logically rationalize anything. This doesn't attach a value judgement to it

>>13611284
There's a woman reading my post right now. She's thinking about me, if even for a fleeting millisecond. Her eyes are touching the letters and words I've written. She's wrapping her retinas around these words and holding them in her head as little pixels of light. There's a woman with my thoughts in her head now and we've never really bonded. It can feel like a little secret, a little thing in the air between us now. And now I know something big, deep, real, there's been some strange change in that. Something I would love to hear or touch or feel about her. It must be something she could care about. Because for some reason if I did, I could be more than willing to listen. Or think or open up about something or give her insight she isn't ready for. Or maybe we'd find something to talk about. We've already spent a good amount of time thinking about our own present lives, her and I. Or about the past. or about how those we know and love are. About family, love, death, and the unknown, and what it means to take it for granted forever. Her mind seems to just float by with it's own threads. Its own energy. Its own sound. Maybe this one moment is just a piece of the puzzle...

>>13611782
Love is an action, not an emotion; it is active, not passive. What you're describing is lust and it fades with time and memory. If you cannot love a woman who is not nubile, you are incapable of love.

>>13611167
Having sex with people you don't love wholeheartedly is yucky and gross, what more needs to be said?

There is really no stigma to being a virgin. The only people that cares about you being virgin are other virgins on the internet that make it out to be a big deal. It's much easier to sit at your house and stay isolated on the internet, so now we sit here on /lit/, an echo chamber of people that barely have any meaningful social interaction with the outside world, brooding and coming up with elaborate theories to explain our issues.

This is the case for me at least, I think it is the case for many men who come here. I often see a chart being posted her displaying the rise of male virginity, and I theorize it has more to do with how easy it is for men to stay home these days and not go outside more so then something crazy like female hypergamy and etc. Neurotic men, schizoid men, and etc can easily stay at home since the rise of the internet.

I save my virginity for my waifu when anime becomes real

>>13611284
have sex

>>13611167
Actual reason: having regular sex (with a willing and cooperating partner, that is) makes you monstrously better at reading movements and gestures. This makes you much more apt socially.

>>13611819
love always starts off with primal sex, then gets refined and refined, not vice versa. it's ultimately dependent on the body. and all real art has celebrated sexuality.
if you can only go for virgins that's sentimentality, not love. and you can't set conditions for love like that.

>>13611711
No, I just claimed that it is not outdated to prefer to marry virgin women, given that marrying virgin women actually leads to better marriages. Which makes preferring to marry virgins perfectly rational.

>>13611893
>rational
we marry for love today

>>13611900
And how well is that working?

>>13611912
we must do things for love, otherwise we’re fools

>>13611284
I'm not a virgin. I was just interested about the stigma surrounding virginity, i.e. why women (most often it's women) should wait etc.

>>13611919
This is the kind of life ideology that leads to heart breaking divorces.

>>13611933
that's life.
but love never leaves an unpaid debt.

>>13611167
Audrey Hepburn was so beautiful that it hurts.

>>13611941
have you seen her teeth?

That's only been a thing since the Boomers ruined everything with their "free love" bullshit.

You all ruined my fucking thread. This wasnt even political or anything I was genuinely curious. I have had sex and my gf was a virgin as was I but I found it strange that if she wasnt a virgin all my interest in her would be pretty much gone. Thats all.

>>13611833
Why myatt?

>>13611782
What a cuck.

>>13611951
Start with the Greeks, I guess.

>>13611288
It’s really not that difficult

>>13611951
do you know where you are

>>13611900
A dangerously foolish reason. Marry for family.

>>13611969
be dangerous then

>>13611795
........fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck........ Like whoa.

>>13611167
>philosophical
Chastity is a virtue.
It is better to be someone who can control his bodily desires than someone who is controlled by them.
Some people believe you need sexual pleasure to be happy. Which is the kind of belief that will make you unhappy.

>>13611989
Based. Perfectly balanced, not preachy.

>>13611980

>>13611976
>risk future happiness, health and income because right now you're on some homemade speed.

>>13611167
OCD

>>13612018
"yes, do" cry the dead artists out of the living past

>>13611989
Better for whom?

>>13612054
For yourself. And for your husband or wife.

>>13612047
>currently just on regular speed
I see.
inb4 only pretending

>>13612062
Is it not for you to decide what you consider being better for yourself?
And consider it in my interests to consider my partner's interests to come second after mine for me.

>>13611989
it's more important to love well, rather than wisely.

>>13612070
>only pretending
unthinkable

>>13612072
>Is it not for you to decide what you consider being better for yourself?

It depends on how wise your are.

>>13611167
Virginity is purity/integrity of Being. The only logical reasoning that affirms it, and champions it, is the one that pertains to Christian/Aryan racialism.

>>13612094
I remember my mistakes and make conclusions from them, thus altering my worldview. According to my current worldview, that's "wise enough".

>>13612075
Loving wisely is loving well.

>>13612106
Making mistakes is not the only way of learning. Nor is it the best.
And some mistakes actually lead you to become a worse person rather than a better one. Much more so when they became habit.

>>13612109
it isn't

>>13611900
>>13611919
>>13611940
>>13611976
>>13612047
>>13612080
10/10 had a good laugh, keep it up

>>13612119
I know what I have seen. I imagine what I have not, based on what I have seen. Learning from others' words has a disadvantage of my misinterpreting said words due to my not being a telepath. Moreover, I cannot ever vouch for others' descriptions to be exhaustive, not leaving out any details said party could consider insignificant, while I would not, having the chance to hear of them, which I didn't. In case of conclusions of my own, I know what they are based on, I can review them any time, I can correct them using newly discovered facts. That's for one.

Second, mistakes can only become a habit by means of having an expectation to err, and to looking specifically at where the results of any actions of yours diverged from your initial expectations. I call such a stance "skepticism", and embrace it, so wouldn't consider a situation where "mistakes became habit" as something negative at all. An activity directed specifically at discovering the errors of your ways (leading to miscalculations, gross or minute) under safe enough conditions is, similarly, called "experimentation". Moreover, it is sometimes necessary to make variations of essentially the same type of mistake in order to receive enough factual information to capture the general principle behind that type of mistake.

In other words, I consider it ok to err, as long as I continue to constructively reflect upon it.

>>13612165
Most of my knowledge didn't come from making mistakes. I don't need to drink mercury to know that it is a bad idea.

And mistakes become habit all the time. That's how some vices appear. That is the case of smoking, for example. Or of drugs. Or of people who become promiscuous.

>>13611167
There is no stigma for being a virgin as a girl. If any girl said she was a virgin to a guy she’d get on offer to take it just out of kindness.

>>13612130
as long as you're having fun i guess

>>13612186
Than maybe your knowledge is more shallow than you think.

>>13612186
In other words, if you admit speaking in quotes, than I consider it below my worth to reply.

>>13612194
And now for boys, how's the situation there?

>>13612199
I would say the opposite. There is just so much knowledge you can get by making mistakes.

>>13612206
???
Are you quoting the wrong post?

>>13612220
Maybe by extracting knowledge from mistakes you gradually become better at extracting knowledge from mistakes.

This just might be called adaptation, now that I think about it.

>>13611809
This is good prose. I liked it.

>>13612226
There are just so many mistakes you can do in one lifetime.
And some of them make you a worse person. Smoking crack won't make you wiser. It will make you a crackhead.

>>13612220
I adapt, you rely on someone to adapt for you, then to show you kewl fresh tricks, that is you rely on someone's benevolence (considering you don't contribute anything back). My position is way more self-sufficient.

>>13612238
Not to mention that kewl fresh tricks, taken outside of the context they emerged in, lose their adequacy.

>>13612238
Do you also grow your own food and make your own clothes? With your own knowledge, since you don't want to rely on someone's benevolence?
And how do you decide what is poisonous and what isn't?

>>13612249
I said MORE self-sufficient, I didn't say PERFECTLY self-sufficient. And I do eventually intend to learn to cut my own clothes from material. Maybe to dye as well. Definitely not gonna bother with loom though.
>And how do you decide what is poisonous and what isn't?
Provided the subject in question is something that could be considered at least SOMEWHAT edible AND filling. By first sniffing it, then (if ok) by boiling it while sniffing it, then (if ok) tasting it, then (if ok) ingesting a very small quantity of it, then waiting for a day, before possibly continuing. Of course, there is no margin for "acquired taste" there. If it seems inedible trash to my senses, then into the trash it goes.

>>13612226
>>13612238
It is entirely possible to learn by observing the mistakes of others, or by applying known information and coming to logical conclusions. By doing so, not only do I become better at gaining knowledge from these other methods, but I do so without putting myself at risk. Not that risk is to be completely avoided: testing conclusions, testing one's own limits and abilities is extremely important to the human existence, after all.
More that, if a person is constantly finding themselves at risk or making mistakes, they could just be a dumbass. Or an adrenaline junkie.

>>13612282
Who will be at an advantage? Someone who has read and memorized a good book filled with knowledge about what is poisonous and what isn't or someone who uses your method?

>>13611877
Can confirm. Also improves a lot of social skills overall.

>>13612283
When observing others I have my own expectation of what their actions will end up with, that in general have nothing to do with the expectations THEY entertain at the same moment. I learn from miscalculating on MY expectations of them, not on their miscalculations on THEIR expectations of them. Thus, I learn FROM my own mistakes BY MEANS of observing others.

>>13612298
That knowledge didn't come from nowhere. Someone, somewhere, somewhen, did what I did, thus the facts compiled in that book became known.

>>13612307
Yes, and I used that knowledge instead of ignoring their experience and starting from scrap.
Will someone be better off knowing that smoking crack is bad for reading books or by smoking crack himself to figure out the effects 3 years later?

>>13612323
I find it beneficial to be able not to rely on literallywhos. Meaning, the verity of conclusions depends upon whose those conclusions are. I can't vouch for the person I know for an hour I am reading his book.

Also, I consider it more beneficial to keep my moods in check, not to make them go haywire. Thus I consider the use of mind-altering substances (even such as mint or mate) questionable at best. Although I do use cocoa mass, in small quantities, as actual food.

>>13612344
Would you say Plato is a literallywho?

>>13612344
The difference between cocoa mass/liquor and, say, coffee, being in that cocoa mass is actually filling.

>>13612357
To me, currently - definitely.

>>13612371
Is it a good idea to ignore the knowledge of one that is known as one of the greatest philosophers of antiquity?

>>13612344
I'm getting the impression that, if you owned a store, you wouldn't take checks.

>>13612403
He was white, so yes.

>>13612409
Ignoring ideas for ethnic reasons and not the ideas themselves is extremely foolish.

>>13612403
If I became interested in Plato, I would first consider getting some sort of reading on Socrates first, in order to distinguish Plato quoting his teacher from Plato being Plato. For that, I would probably go through descriptions by Xenophon, and maybe other some other contemporaries, if available, not by Plato.
I can't currently be assed though. I have other priorities.
>>13612404
For regulars, I might make some exceptions.

>>13611167
Gather ye rose-buds while ye may,
Old Time is still a-flying;
And this same flower that smiles today
Tomorrow will be dying.

The glorious lamp of heaven, the sun,
The higher he’s a-getting,
The sooner will his race be run,
And nearer he’s to setting.

That age is best which is the first,
When youth and blood are warmer;
But being spent, the worse, and worst
Times still succeed the former.

Then be not coy, but use your time,
And while ye may, go marry;
For having lost but once your prime,
You may forever tarry.

>>13612426
Socrates didn't write anything because he thought it weakened the mind. I'm sure you realize this, but almost everything we know of Socrates comes from what Plato wrote about him, and by comparing that to whatever other tidbits we find (such as: Plato was biased as hell towards his own philosophy, and was not above twisting his "teacher's" words to suit him).
To save you some trouble: 99% of Socrates is not ideas or morality, but questioning others about their beliefs. Socrates was just REALLY GOOD at finding logical holes in ideas.

>>13612481
Again, there is a major alternative source, Xenophon. First I examine Xenophon writing about himself, then I examine Xenophon writing about Socrates, then I examine Plato. That happens when that happen, however.

>>13611989
Thanks. One fucking good post for once.

>>13611661
>The only way you'll get a virgin is if you convert to Islam
Muslims face the same problems as Christians in this regard, it isn't a Christian-only issue

>>13612507
But WHY though?
Yes, you can get a better understanding through constant hard work and research and sweat,
but SURELY, even if it is just this one case, even if you never do so again, perhaps it is more expedient and profitable to listen to what thousands of people have already said, considering their collective words, and forming a staring point?

If you enjoy your independence and it helps you grow as a person then, hey, more power to you, but I would think that doing seemingly everything from scratch and by oneself is extremely inefficient. Society grew because it was stronger and more effective than the individual going on their own. And more: technology got where it was because people, to some degree, trusted the experiments of the past and built off them. Yes, scientists can and do lie, but it seems preposterous to conclude that, as it seems with yourself, there is no truth to be gained anywhere, and all truth must come either from personal examination or already trusted sources.
Heaven's sake, ALL sources start as untrusted. Forming ANY degree of trust must first require extending some degree of trust to a source, believing them, and forming an opinion on the source based on later examinations. Even here, you're trusting Xenophon more than Plato, as evident in your writing.
>"First I examine Xenophon writing about himself, then I examine Xenophon writing about Socrates, then I examine Plato."
Why? Because you've heard that he was more trustworthy? Because you have a gut feeling? Because his name is cooler? Unless you already know about Xenophon and Plato, from either already knowing their own writings or second hand from what people say, there is no data to determine which of them is more true to Socrates.

>>13612645
Because I have my own eyes. Because I have my own head. Because I have my own past noone else QUITE has. That's why.

As for Xenophon and Plato, the primary reason is because Xenophon wrote NOT ONLY about muh Socrates and muh Philosophy, from what I gather. There is also, at the very least, Expedition of Cyrus, which has jack shit to do with either. Reading it would hopefully allow me to get some sort of read on who the hell Xenophon himself was, and, thus, the ability to somehow distinguish between instances of Xenophon QUOTING Socrates EXACTLY, and Xenophon ascribing to Socrates something saying which was not in Socrates' character (but was in Xenophon's) for argument's sake, thus essentially factoring out Xenophon out of Xenophon's Socratic writings. THAT will allow me to get some sort of reading on Socrates in turn. THAT reading I intend to use to factor, Socrates out of Plato's Socratic writings, in order to distinguish Plato cosplaying Socrates from Plato being Plato. And I'll just see, I guess, what kind of guy Plato actually was. Not that he is even the primary focus of this planned investigation.

Anyway.

As to answer another one of your questions. I have all the tools I currently consider sufficient to pull off what I want to do. And I have pride enough not to content myself with the "next best thing" when I consider having perfectly enough to do my thing properly without halfassing it.

>>13611885
>sets a condition for love
>"you can't set a condition for love."

>>13611182
birth control has been a thing since the greeks.
(Not necessarily super effective though)

>>13612882
men are attraced to women, that's not a condition i set. it's just how god made us, or allowed us to be born.

>>13611980
KEK

>>13612102
Why did the gods/God invent sex if its so bad? Why did they/He make us sexual beings? Why is it that the gods themselves are said to have wives and sexual trysts (think Greek mythology, or the gods of Hinduism who all have wives/concubines)?

>>13612300
Dubs checked.

So I can't improve my social skills unless I have regular sex, and I can't have regular sex until I improve my social skills?

FML

>>13611167
Aquinas proved that continent virginity is pretty much the best form of existence and substantiated it with reason, and addressed various contrasting criticisms in a number of counterpoints. He pretty much proved that recreational sex was for cumbrains bent on hedonism, surrendering their faculty of reason for it, and showed the only valid reason for it is procreation. I used to disagree with him on the superiority of virginity over say, abstinence without it. Now, it is clear he meant virginity from his experience, versus the decadent modern version of it where someone masturbates and lusts after the flesh still, essentially rendering it non-virginity. I used to think, what difference does it make if someone is now abstinent but in the past was not a virgin? You can't erase memories. Erasing habits takes effort. How much better would it have never been tainted? Even looking back, I would have been better off not having any sex. Just a massive waste that kept me in the shackles of lust longer and longer, something that served to legitimize its pursuit. I can't change the past but I can urge others to heed his wise advice.

>>13611167

>>13612979
>Why did the gods/God invent sex if its so bad?
1. There is only one God.
2. Sexual reproduction was introduced by the demiurge, Ialdabaoth, not by God.

>Why did they/He make us sexual beings?
Because it enables to incarnate Souls into Kosmos, and to recycle Souls within Kosmos, via perpetuation of natural order. and primal urge.

>Why is it that the gods themselves are said to have wives and sexual trysts (think Greek mythology, or the gods of Hinduism who all have wives/concubines)?
Depending on the mythical context, "god/s" may designate either: humans, angels, or demons, the latter being the prevalent referent throughout history; marital designation may reference either:
1. actual marital relation between humans;
2. aspected personifications of an entity/entities (this includes familial designation also);
3. other miscallaneous relations between entities.
All references to nonmarital sexual relations involving "gods" necessarily indicate sexual hybridization between humans, and/or between humans and demons.

>>13613150
You have no idea how much this haunts me.

>>13613673
Same. I hate the fact that I looked at porn.

>>13612979
It's not bad. God invented food, and we can enjoy food and wine, but to be a glutton and a drunkard ares still sinful. Sex is important, but it's meant to be a thing that binds and creates a family. Premarital and extramarital sex break down the bonds of marriage, and also destroy the family and children as a result.
I believe the recent surge in depression and existential loneliness among the public is directly correlated with this destroyed sense of family and trust from widespread promiscuity.
>Why is it that the gods themselves are said to have wives and sexual trysts (think Greek mythology, or the gods of Hinduism who all have wives/concubines)
Because they're not God indeed.
Obviously they have their own theologies, and I think it shows a critical failure in basic polytheism (in Hinduism, the Panentheistic God isn't akin to this, though, and doesn't fall into the hyper-anthropomorphism), one that Socrates, Plato, and Aristotle seemed to at least partially realized, that their mythological gods that have sex, and fight, and contradict each other and themselves, are not equivocal with the kind of pure Being and Actual that underlies the deep philosophical questions. This comes up in the Socratic dialogue, Euthyphro.
God does not copulate. Jesus walked the earth a virgin.

>>13611809
As a femanon, that felt really intimate. Felt weird, but god damn was it well-written

>>13612900
Sounds restrictive.

>>13611877
This guy gets it

>>13613844
>As a femanon

>>13611877
you could get these skills reading a book

>>13611877
>having regular sex makes you monstrously better at reading movements and gestures
And watching anime has made me a fluent speaker and expert in Japanese and Japanese culture.

>>13613860
it's a wax-on-wax-off-type situation

>>13611167
Historically? Prevention of STDs in the days before we understood what viruses and bacteria were.

Modern? Vestigal traditions that were never bothered to be rethought.

>>13613835
>Premarital and extramarital sex break down the bonds of marriage, and also destroy the family and children as a result.
What about the contrary where couples stay together or married by presion of society, which end up perpetually unhappy in order to maintain certain traditional views, which in turn will produce future people to be unhappy too

>>13613673
>>13613826
Assume total materialism (i.e., the total nonexistence of God) and it becomes even more haunting—yet what bothers me even more the overwhelming majority of people do not care, and just say "what does it matter, tomorrow we die". Their argument, drives me deeper into despair. If we die tomorrow, why would you want to waste your only life, your only few years being captive to some primal bit of programming executing that you mistakenly reinforced? David Hume would later say some 500 years later that "reason is and ought to be the slave of the passions"; but this is what as the Thomas said happens when reason is perverted to serve such carnal pleasures, miserable felicities. What did Hume do with his life? Why did he do his life? Simply to be seen as elegant and urbane, to acquire riches, to be esteemed, respected. And he was an unhappy glutton, never satisfied. Aquinas— to reiterate, I have prefaced a total metaphysical denial of all religion— was in a state of total elation, even with nothing, the majority of his religious life the point where he likened his words to straws and thereafter ceased writing the rest of his life. By surrendering our wills and faculty of reason to the use of lower passions, they eventually become corrupted, and hijacked, as touched by Kant in his second critique, i.e. heteronomy. The only way I can reconcile the people who do not care is that such persons are of lower intelligence, including Hume relative to the likes of Aquinas and Kant. They cannot perceive any distinction in will and assume all choices, all actions, all appetites emanate from right then and there, and are wholly theirs. Unless you can control your appetites and desires, you ultimately are not free. Satiating them does not free. You always exist and operate in a very limited parameter with the illusion of freedom from some simple choice or action. Thus, even if the metaphysics are is false, the impositions of religion serve to free one from our biologically deterministic shackles. Reason is a powerful tool and without a standard for striving toward absolute, total, immutable, infinite goodness, perfection itself, it is nothing than an infinite regression, a subservient function to some primal calling that somehow manages to be removed from its purpose to such an extent it makes the primal use, in its proper order look good. Even if this is a lie, even if it's false. It does not matter. It is infinitely better to set ourselves after perfection than to reject this and be what? To return to wallow in the mire? Looking around 99.9% of people I see are slaves. I ignore most people but any debate I view most with scorn and contempt, animals controlled by their primal desires and emotions. Creatures as theologians say. The only people I remotely view as attaining freedom for the limited number of years on earth are monks and priests and most are frauds. I don't believe in God.

>>13614183
>Caught in dualisms, aboves and belows
You were bamboozled from the start

>>13614142
Most arguments against promiscuity and in the favor of chastity are not about STDs.

>>13614183
Good post.

>>13614183
>animals controlled by their primal desires
Worse than that, even when they arent being immoderate, they are flapping their feathers in dominance disputes. Even suttle one's. You do really have to go into it a bit to be able to handle them properly so that they leave you be. At work, I failed to recognize a dominance dispute against me and my brain gave me quite a lot of negative emotion because of it. So you do have to partake just a bit so that it can be squashed.

>>13614235
Yes, they're about incel feefees.
have sex

>>13612640
Really? I thought muslim women were afraid to fuck before marriage because their parents would send them to pakistan for a forced marriage or even kill them

Bump.

>>13611989
Chastity is not a virtue. Virtues are practical. They require action.

>>13611167
You can rationalize every position imaginable, doesn't make it right one way or the other. Fetishizing shit like virginity is just comical to say the least.

>>13614176
There will always be exceptions in terms of happiness, but because those exist doesn't overthrow the principle, nor does it disprove it. If those people had a worldview which saw marriage as a God ordained bond, then they would be wiling to work it through.
And It's merely true that the happiest marriages are those that are truly monogamous, and that children form broken homes are the cause of most of societies human maladies.

Xenophon is a natural born orator and a fucking bro.

His style of retelling Socrates' words is starkly different from his descriptive style, which makes it apparent he is by and large quoting directly, and even when he isn't, he knew the man well enough to get the right enough idea of what he would act like.

Socrates, thus depicted, is a horseshitter, who acts in a deliberately misleading way in order to catch people on wrong conclusions (regarding him) based on those misleading acts, thus driving home the point "Whatever you think you know about Socrates, you don't know jack shit about Socrates".

Plato fakes consensus, as a rule of thumb, pats himself on the back extensively to give his words more weight. There is no marked difference between his "Socratic" and "non-Socratic" style, which suggests, that Socrates is used as mouthpiece only. Anyway, faking weight on his views seemingly serves a very simple purpose, to impose it a duty on the reader to act as Plato would.

These two, Socrates and Plato, in my opinion, are just weasels, and not even all that interesting ones (I admit, Socrates' shtick is very slightly more interesting). Xenophon's historical recollections I might read on occasion further on - definitely not his Socratic stuff however.

Free love is a knife through the jugular vein son
Free love, I can't afford to add up what you fuckers are made of

>>13614183
First of all, let me start off by saying that I agree with the idea that one should try and free ourselves from our passions.
However, I have to wonder, to what extent are we actually able to do that ? You speak of freeing ourselves from our biological shackles. To some degree we'll always be a slave to those shackles as no man can go without food and water for very long. Death would be the only way to be absolutely free from our biological shackles.
On the issue of sexual desire, how well do you really know yourself. Me and you, we have perhaps not had the opportunity to engage in much if any sex at all. It's easy to take the moral high road for us. But what if things have been different ? What if we were chads and girls were constantly lining up to take the D from us ? Would we still feel the same way ? Wouldn't our minds promptly and with ease convince us that it is a very natural thing and our right, nay our duty even, to indulge in these carnal delights. One has to wonder.
Thoughts are dangerous and of themselves become a trap. They seem so logical, everything makes perfect sense.

-people, especialy women, know that women cannot keep their legs closed
- people know that most men never amount to anything

virginity is the best discriminant for people:
-good women are not tramps
-good men manage to make something of their lives (and, since women are loose by nature, fucking a woman is not so hard (if you do not fuck a woman, you better be good at something else))

naturally, this utopia never occurs:
-women spread their legs chasing their fun, especially through good sex, thanks to the men ready to serve them
-very few men go beyond women
men never amount to anything besides providing entertainment for women, since providing for women is the easiest thing, especially when it comes to giving them gifts.

>>13615298
Chastity is traditionally considered a virtue, linked with temperance.

>>13615315
>Fetishizing shit like virginity is just comical to say the least.

see >>13611694
>Women who marry virgin statistically have happier and more successful marriages than the others, even after controlling for religiosity. They also have lower rates of cheating.

>>13615536
Well, the most famous PUA in the world became an arch-conservative who banned conversations about premarital sex on his website.

>>13616095
yeah but only after he had tons of sex

>>13612426
>>13612507
>>13612756
>>13615353
Who cares about the original Socrates? He had no positive beliefs, didn't write anything and was so annoying they murder him. If you want to learn about Plato, read Plato, read people that wrote about Plato. Enough with your bizarre autism schema.

>>13611833
Maybe. But I certainly have male friends, I even do pretty normie thinigs, for example I went to a pub yesterday.
But romantic love is a different issue.

>>13616201
Actually, I don't anymore.

>>13611833
I’ll expand on this by saying that people are staying at home more in general. We are the loneliest generation in human history and much of the existential dread people experience today comes from that. The loss of virginity doesn’t address this problem either. Men are lonely because society is more inclined to view them as expendable and as the individuals who must act rather than receive help. Women are lonely because despite being in high demand on the sexual marketplace, they have to live with the fear that guys are pursuing them for the sole purpose of getting an easy lay rather than caring about them as a person. It’s basically the equivalent of feeling alone despite being with someone.

My theory is that a lot of virgin women today are the types that actively avoid dating to pursue other goals, possibly due in part to this fear.

Basically, virgin or not, there are very few people today who don’t feel alienated by the current state of human relations.

>>13615572
Sad truth. I use it as motivation to rise above.

>>13616637
Yea man, but to where? Or where have you risen to? I think I have found a path. But I teeter on relapse into this male female equation.

>>13615536
>What if we were chads and girls were constantly lining up to take the D from us ? Would we still feel the same way ? Wouldn't our minds promptly and with ease convince us that it is a very natural thing and our right, nay our duty even, to indulge in these carnal delights. One has to wonder.
You're mistaken. I am attractive and such was my lot in life. In point of fact, being a chad makes the situation all the worse as you are tempted in person all the more by harpies pulling on your coattails and heartstrings as Augustine said:

>It was, in fact, my old mistresses, trifles of trifles and vanities of vanities, who still enthralled me. They tugged at my fleshly garments and softly whispered: “Are you going to part with us? And from that moment will we never be with you any more? And from that moment will not this and that be forbidden you forever?” What were they suggesting to me in those words “this or that”? What is it they suggested, O my God? Let thy mercy guard the soul of thy servant from the vileness and the shame they did suggest! And now I scarcely heard them, for they were not openly showing themselves and opposing me face to face; but muttering, as it were, behind my back; and furtively plucking at me as I was leaving, trying to make me look back at them. Still they delayed me, so that I hesitated to break loose and shake myself free of them and leap over to the place to which I was being called--for unruly habit kept saying to me, “Do you think you can live without them?”

The more available it is, the more of a problem it becomes as you are but a slave to the next bit of meat to excite and stimulate you. It does nothing. It just kneecaps the more recently developed parts of your brain for a bit of pleasure and this feeds all the more into the point I was attempting to make. Even if you had total access to sleep with every woman in existence, it would not profit you at all. In fact, it further hammers the point I was making that it reinforces a primal drive and makes it the primary driver of the will to the point where you and your faculties are just a vehicle for it to be carried out. You, surrender your seat as conscious driver to a passenger to whatever distraction happens to be next.
>It's easy to take the moral high road for us.
I didn't take the high road. I advised others to. People waste their entire lives and I wasted many years on frivolous pursuits that yielded nothing other than transitory pleasure.

>>13611167
1) marrying a virgin is extra security that the resulting child might be yours.

2) Popular virginity reduces the spread of STD/STI. This can be seen in the difference between Muslim(were virginity is super important) and christian Africa in aids infection rates. the rates in Muslim countries are less than 1%

3) Virginity is ordered by God on pain of hell & punishment in this life. why risk it.

4) for some reason human males prefer virgins, this is a constant through all cultures and most religions. this means that preference for virginity is fundamentally biological

5) Tradition.

6) virginity requires a great deal of self discipline which may manifest in other areas of endeavor. the more so today

7) the more common a behavior is the less value should be placed on it( econ101) hence virgins should become more valuable.

8) no risk of pregnancy, when one is unable to support a spouse or child. Leading directly to less abortions

9) Interlectual relationships are more intimate and produce greater pleasure.

10) forming a sexual relattion may take away time from work,schooling & self improvement

11) visiting prostitutes makes one a supporter of exploitation and societal decay.

12) sexual relations can led to conflict with jealous former boyfriends, husbands, angry fathers.

13) you can be accused of sexual assault. Always believe the victim

14) money spent on condoms,birth control, sex toys and relationship enhancing gifts could be better spent or saved.