/lit/ - Literature

>>13608594
not at all. one could claim he was quasi-Orthodox, but his theology wasn't in any way similar to that of Roman Catholicism.

>>13608594
You wish, desu.

>>13608647
>>13608649
Seething atheists.

>>13608655
cope
Really though, fpbp. He was more akin to Orthodox than anything other than protestantism.

>>13608594
>catholics keep trying to take based Kierk
He was a based prot and you know it.

>>13608594
He was a crypto-Mormon and I have the evidence.
>A serious critic of existing Protestant Christianity. Recognized the need for a new Reformation, as it were.
>"This task of mine will be to follow him, the Reformer, step by step, never budging from his side, to see if step by step he is in the true character of his role, is actually the Extraordinary..." Kierkegaard recognizes that Christianity needs another Luther, and that he could not fill that role. That is, it needs an authoritative personality "in the character" of a reformer. This is Joseph Smith (1805-1844), who claimed divine authority to reform and restore Christianity. Kierkegaard merely waited for one such to appear, as a 'poet without authority.'
>Mormon missionaries first arrive in Copenhagen shortly before Kierkegaard's death in 1855. There is no evidence he ever came into contact with Mormonism, but his brother Peter certainly did and even wrote a tract arguing against their doctrines. Peter didn't like the Mormons' ideas, but Soren didn't like Peter's ideas.
>Kierkegaard makes a threefold division of human life into the esthetic, the ethical, and the religious; Joseph Smith similarly makes a threefold division into what he termed the telestial, the terrestrial, and the celestial modes of living. These categories align quite well.
>Kierkegaard advocates the individual's relating himself to God without the mediation the the curates of the Established Church; Mormonism emphasizes very strongly that each individual must hear the voice of God directly.
>Kierkegaard saw his life as the fulfillment of a particular divine mission, culminating in his attack on the Established Church. He died early, but with the benefit of hindsight we can plainly observe that his mission was to deal a blow to the Lutheran state church significant enough that Mormonism could make headway in Denmark on its arrival. This it did; as many as 14,000 Danes accepted the Latter-day Saint faith and emigrated to Utah by 1930.
fuck catholics and FUCK PROTTIES

>>13608594

Yes, in many ways.

>>13609656
holy based

>>13608594
Definitely not. I kind of put Kiekergaard in with the New England Mainline Protestants.

No. No. No. He was a crypto Quaker. He hated clergy and liturgy

>>13609459
>LesbianBishopMarryingGayCouple.jpeg

>>13609656
>>13610795

Catholics very much pretend to hate the Church because...the Catholic Church IS awful and they kind of have to, and because they enjoy regressing from it, rather than transcending it, that is to say shying away from the broader "gnostic" questions of what the Church even is and taking refuge in the agnostic sitcom life.

>>13611460
Kierkegaard had no interest in bourgeois sitcom life, He renounced his engagement and gave away everything he had and died homeless

>>13608594
He doesn't give a shit about Jesus.

>>13609656
What are your thoughts on the Book of Abraham, Mormon-anon?

I hope he went to heaven

>>13611552
I doubt heaven exists. and if it does I bet we all go there.

>>13608594
I've read some interesting things that suggested he may have moved towards Catholicism had he lived longer, and its partially convincing, but of course its just speculation. I will say though, even though his knowledge of theology was fantastic, his image of Catholic daily practice was off-base. In his notebooks he seems convinced that the role of the Church is to mediate between man and God, when it very clearly is not, or at least, not in the sense he envisions.

>>13609459
He was too Protestant for even Protestantism, he hated what it had become and even criticized Luther.

>>13610795
He hated clergy who failed in the roles as clergy and gave cushy and comfortable sermons or tried to over-emphasize the hellfire aspect to scare people without helping them understand why they should be scared.

>>13611552
If anyone deserves it, he deserves it. He suffered greatly on earth and truly wanted to be a good Christian.

>>13611542
I think any reasonable Latter-day Saint has to accept the mnemonic theory. Joseph Smith's interpretations of the images or facsimiles is certainly not the literally correct interpretation; it can only be understood as a radical reinterpretation, or the use of originally unrelated images to suggest some new idea. This is actually common in Mormon thought (and even Christianity); consider for instance that Isaiah is commonly interpreted in an apocalyptic "end times" manner when its original, literal meaning was intended for 500 or 600 B.C.
In short, Joseph Smith already had some ideas/revelations about Abraham, and the appearance of the Book of Abraham papyri furnished an opportunity to express these.

>>13611564
>He suffered greatly on earth
define suffered
and how does suffering guarantee a seat in heaven 'cuz i would blow people up for it (and some virgin pussy) if you can guarantee that to me

>>13611654
I can't guarantee that, and I never claimed to

>>13611680
cool...but you still haven't defined suffering
please define it

>>13611727
No. Look up his life and draw your own conclusions. I'm not getting into this in the manner you seem to be trying to.

>>13611555
"pedophiles and murderers go to the same place as monks and martyrs because facing the consequences of your action in life is bad"
pussy

>>13609656
Uhhhh I’ve told you before that he would have probably just wrote The Book on Adler (Joseph Smith) again.

Fairly certain that he was so traditional and conservative when it came to the basics of Christianity as he had been taught it that he would have been incredibly skeptical of a new holy book like the Book of Mormon.

>>13609656
>Either/Or Revised Edition Part 2
>On the Aesthetic Validity of (Multiple) Marriages

>>13608594
He was about as far removed from Catholicism as possible, his criticisms of the Church of Denmark would apply to Rome tenfold.

>>13612986
>Kierkegaard describes his first reaction to having heard that Adler claimed to have had a revelation, before he had read Adler's Sermons. He thought that either Adler was a possessor of divine originality or else a "knave" who wished "to demolish everything".
Seems that Kierkegaard didn't deny new revelation out of hand. He rejected Adler largely because of the following:
>He [Adler] later conceded that his revelation was a mistake, that "revelation was perhaps too strong an expression". To make matters much worse, Adler later published other works, and declared that his former "revelation" was instead a work of genius. Moreover, Kierkegaard met with Adler, who, in reading his own works to Kierkegaard, would alternate between a regular speaking voice and a shrill "whistling" voice, as if the latter were to convey weightier and more spiritual truths. It was clear that the man was deranged.
So Adler later denied having had a revelation (which Joseph Smith never denied) and he demonstrated strange charismatic behavior (which Joseph Smith observed in America as well and of which he was a consistent critic).
I should go and read the Book on Adler properly, but I think Adler and Smith differ in the essentials that Kierkegaard considers.

>>13613222
>dler, who, in reading his own works to Kierkegaard, would alternate between a regular speaking voice and a shrill "whistling" voice, as if the latter were to convey weightier and more spiritual truths. It was clear that the man was deranged.
Isn't that basically what Joseph Smith did though? Whenever he wanted to proclaim a revelation he started yelling in King James English.

>>13612077
Pedophiles or murderers don't even have souls of their own, sin is not an accident of their essential soul but their very essence, they only exist to mindlessly execute their sinful nature and their compulsions don't possess the weight of consciousness that underlies the sacrifices of a martyr.

>>13613259
He would start dictating normally in King James English once his scribe was ready. King James English was pretty commonly used in early nineteenth century New England for all sorts of official business, so that's not surprising either. Joseph Smith wrote an editorial ("Try the Spirits") condemning excessive charismatic displays such as Adler's:
>The Shaker will whirl about on his heel, impelled by a supernatural agency or spirit, and think that he is governed by the Spirit of God; and the Jumper will jump and enter into all kinds of extravagances. A Primitive Methodist will shout under the influence of that spirit, until he will rend the heavens with his cries; while the Quakers (or Friends) moved as they think, by the Spirit of God, will sit still and say nothing. Is God the author of all this? ... Surely, such a heterogeneous mass of confusion never can enter into the kingdom of heaven.
>A man must have the discerning of spirits before he can drag into daylight this hellish influence and unfold it unto the world in all its soul-destroying, diabolical, and horrid colors; for nothing is a greater injury to the children of men than to be under the influence of a false spirit when they think they have the Spirit of God. Thousands have felt the influence of its terrible power and baneful effects. Long pilgrimages have been undertaken, penances endured, and pain, misery, and ruin have followed in their train; nations have been convulsed, kingdoms overthrown, provinces laid waste, and blood, carnage and desolation are habiliments in which it has been clothed.

>>13613222
>>13613259
Good posts. Thanks for the (you).

t. Cradle Catholic prejudiced against everyone else and horrified at the idea of my Kierkegaard converting to Mormonism

>>13609459
>based prot
Literal oxymoron

>>13609656
These are incredibly superficial similarities, especially your point about the threefold division, unless you have some idiosyncratic understanding of the degrees of glory in Mormonism.

>>13608594
He must have become more sympathetic towards the Church as his work developed. Or at least to some form of apostolic tradition.

>>13611475
wat?

>>13609656
You should start a Mormon thread. Ive never seen one on this board. I’ve always been intrigued with Joseph Smith and his Latter Day Saints. I think it might all be legit :)

>>13615681
>You should start a Mormon thread. Ive never seen one on this board.
Every so often I/one other guy hijack a thread like I did with this one. But if you start a Mormon thread it instantly turns to shit, I find that the hijacking approach is much more productive. If a thread is made I'll certainly have something to add though.
>I’ve always been intrigued with Joseph Smith and his Latter Day Saints.
The correct punctuation is Latter-day but you get points for saying that and not Mormon. The current president of the church is trying to get everyone away from saying "Mormon" so "Latter-day Saint" is the new hotness. Joseph Smith is actually the man, highly recommend reading up on him, whether you think he's a prophet or not the man was an absolute Chad and very interesting.
>I think it might all be legit :)
nice meme. it unironically is tho