/lit/ - Literature

>>13590854

>environmentalism

Why should we care about this world if Jesus wants us to prepare for the next one instead?

>>13590854
you read this OP?

Haven't ever read any Powers but saw this win the Pulitzer and got through the first section before putting it down. Want to return to it and maybe some of your thoughts could help.

>>13590854
Singularity is near anon.
Why the fuck should one care about this planet or it's life forms.

Fuck the environment
>Nature impales men, breaks them as if on the wheel, casts them to be devoured by wild beasts, burns them to death, crushes them with stones like the first Christian martyr, starves them with hunger, freezes them with cold, poisons them by the quick or slow venom of her exhalations, and has hundreds of other hideous deaths in reserve, such as the ingenious cruelty of a Nabis or a Domitian never surpassed. All this Nature does with the most supercilious disregard both of mercy and of justice, emptying her shafts upon the best and noblest indifferently with the meanest and worst; upon those who are engaged in the highest and worthiest enterprises, and often as the direct consequence of the noblest acts; and it might almost be imagined as a punishment for them. She mows down those on whose existence hangs the well-being of a whole people, perhaps the prospect of the human race for generations to come, with as little compunction as those whose death is a relief to themselves, or a blessing to those under their noxious influence. Such are Nature's dealings with life.
>"...he saw in Java a plain far as the eye could reach entirely covered with skeletons, and took it for a battlefield; they were, however, merely the skeletons of large turtles, five feet long and three feet broad, and the same height, which come this way out of the sea in order to lay their eggs, and are then attacked by wild dogs (Canis rutilans), who with their united strength lay them on their backs, strip off their lower armour, that is, the small shell of the stomach, and so devour them alive. But often then a tiger pounces upon the dogs. Now all this misery repeats itself thousands and thousands of times, year out, year in. For this, then, these turtles are born. For whose guilt must they suffer this torment ? Where fore the whole scene of horror? To this the only answer is : it is thus that the will to live objectifies itself."

>>13590854
Aldo Leopold, Arne Naess, Teddy K, Edward Abbey, Linkola. I'm honestly open to an /Environmental/ general for discussing philosophy and related works surround Environmentalism.

>>13590862
>he thinks he lives on a planet

>>13590854
Arts of Living on a Damaged Planet edited by Anna Tsing, Heather Swanson, Elaine Can, and Nils Bubandt

I loved The Overstory.
No eco-canon is complete without David Brower. I'd suggest Let The Mountains Talk. Also about him but not by him, Encounters with the Archdruid

Being Ecological by Timothy Morton

Overshoot by Catton > everything else.

>>13590854
Regardless of what path the western world takes, china and india's developing middle class will tip the scales of ecological disaster.

>>13591057
>ignoring the niggers multiplying like rabbits in Africa
Bro, cmon

>>13590854
Creating a cannon for environmentalism may be difficult if we aren't strict in our parameters. For example do self sustainability books like "The One Straw Revolution" count? Environmentalism touches so many subjects that we would need to determine what is absolutely essential.

I also think that being a good environmentalist depends a lot on having an intimate understanding of the individual environmentalists surroundings. This means that it may be a good idea to create several "sub-cannons" for specific ecological regions.

>>13590874
> I'm honestly open to an /Environmental/ general for discussing philosophy and related works surround Environmentalism.

I second this, as long as we can keep it free from eco-fascist trash.

>>13591452
>I second this, as long as we can keep it free from eco-fascist trash.
Coming from the guy who suggested the idea of the /Environmental/ general and the person you replied to... dropped.

>>13591463
Eco-fascists are just regular fascists who think trees are pretty.

>>13591062
>>13591057
>levithan's heads are different people
hurr
>>13591463
trashboy

>>13591649
Lol sure they are sweetie.

Contributing
Pretty straight forward good read.

Surprised to not see uncle Ted and instead of nouveau fascism vers. 4.2

>>13590858
Nihilism isn't Christian.

/lit/ recognizes anthropomorphic climate change but recognizes it as a good thing. Can't wait for the sea to turn into pink lemonade.

>>13590854
I both like and dislike environmentalism. I dont like the quasi-religious aspect to it 'we are being punished for our sins by apocalypse' but I love nature and don't like seeing it wantonly destroyed by companies or governments. What they're doing in the Amazon especially bothers me for some reason.

Idk what people want exactly though. Nuclear power seems like a plausible replacement for fossil fuels, but the other stuff is ridiculous. Garbage is another problem that can't be solved without basically overturning capitalism, because people just cannot stop buying random bullshit constantly, and overturning capitalism does not have a good track record.

im really not seeing much in the way of solutions to most of these problems. You try to fix some aspect of the situation and completely fuck up some other aspect that is necessary for civilization to run. Industrial civilization might just be incompatible with environmentalism.

>>13590854
I am of the opinion that the mainstream environmentalist movement does not truly appreciate nature. They merely wish to use sustainability to hold society together while man remains alienated from nature. Modern environmentalists would turn every man in the world into an isolated urbanite if they could.
Any books on this topic?

>>13590854
Make sure something about purging niggers is in there because they’re the single greatest threat to the environment and impending ecological collapse.

>>13592504
Read >>13592303
To truly understand the situation and what we face and what needs to be done.

He does mention the camp that has given up. The branch of “scientists” ( neoliberal shills) he calls anthropocentric, who want to turn whatever’s left over into a big domesticated park and pave over the rest

>>13592303
>says contributing
Why do you work so hard to be so contemptible

>>13592559
Take your med and delete this post

Oh look another episode of butterfly decides to ruin a thread!

Anyone scared about the future should really watch this video all the way through

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WPB2u8EzL8

>>13590854
auntie got this for me as a present but it sounds too heavy handed to be worth it.. convince me

>>13592559
>nobody adds anything to the thread
>be the first person to contribute
>shame other people in the thread who aren't contributing
Is this your first week on basket weaving forum my friend?

>>13592596
>Because Butterfly was the first person to suggest any authors whatsoever

>>13592603
what a pedant

>>13592602
Clearly not, but one of the only. Are you the eco-fascist?

>>13592623
I prefer the green cover of the book desu.

>>13592631
Post it

The earth is hollow so things like skyscrapers are bad because they are heavy and could cause the crust to collapse

>>13592378
You sure you know what nihilism is?

>>13592555
Thanks for the answer. Here's a rec in return.

Let's protect human biodiversity, promote local production and landscape preservation against globalism in all its forms including mass migration

Rachel Carson's books are good. Not specifically about environmentalism, but her passion and love for the natural world is infectious.

>>13592582
Give me some summary about what's the video about

>>13590999
Adding to that, this is great if you can untangle yourself from its weird, mobius-loopy logic. He makes a strong case for why agriculture (prior to feudalism, politics or capitalism) is the root of our failures to tackle climate change. We first began organising space through the line of the plough, populating it by sowing seeds, cultivating and confining a particular zone (meadow, acre, etc.) to our predetermined conditions. A weed is only a "weed" because we say it is. A weed by any other name would be just as irritating to a farmer.

Morton essentially argues that this approach will inevitably lead to climate catastrophe, in the same way that our attempts to conform nature to our limits and needs through vaccines has resulted in untreatable superbugs.

>>13590854
add Herbert Gruhl's works and some of Rolf Peter Sieferle. Perhaps Masanobu Fukuoka, but I haven't read any of his works yet. Also, James Howard Kunstler and that weird Savitri Devi book, impeachment of man.

>>13590854
Is there actually a teleology to environmentalism?
What's the ideal end state that the Earth should be at?

It all seems like a process rather than anything with a goal; hence why evironmentalism as an ideology seems weary and primary has been used as a tool for endless justification of power (see Eco-Socialism).

what do christians and technophiles have in common? they wait for the messiah that will never arrive..

Good goy, make climate skepticism part of your worldview because oil and gas industry donors to the “conservative” Republican Party want you to.

>>13594000
At least the former is honest about metaphysics.
The latter are materialists denying metaphysics while believing in quasi-metaphysics (singularity, transhumanism, simulation theory, etc).

>>13594030
Take your farts to back to your threads

>>13594030
this post made the flying maggot angry, i like that.

>>13594062
Your "Singularity" will never come Butterfag.
Gotta rip that bandaid off quick.
Reject your degenerate lifestyle and find Christ again.

>>13590854
physical books are inherently anti-environmentalist.

>>13594247
>books using electricity
digital books are inherently anti-environmentalist.

Seriously though, environmentalism is teleologically misanthropic: the end realization that humanity consumes some level of resources and thus need to be killed off. The irony is that it's perfectly fine for termites to consume trees, but when human's do it, it is evil and unnatural.

>the life denying cultists are here to shut down a rare book thread.

>>13594279
Extremist nuttery. Btw. Get your out of your ass.

>>13593719
You’re welcome

>>13594345
Let me guess Buttertits. You're an anti-natalist.
No surprise given the hedonistic lifestyle you chose and the subsequent hedonistic and nihilistic ideologies you pick up.
A whirlpool of bad ideas and choices while circling the drain.

>being a technophobe species traitor in 2019
Yikes

>>13594279
>The irony is that it's perfectly fine for termites to consume trees, but when human's do it, it is evil and unnatural.
that ain't it, buddy. It's not that humanity should be "killed off", but radically decentralised from our predominant position in the planet's ecology. It's not that we're consuming "some" level of resources, its that our rate of consumption is creating a huge carbon debt that will be paid, one way or another. Either human civilisation forces itself to a screeching halt in order to prevent further damage to the environment, or we let the wealthiest and brightest minds invent a lifesaving craft for a select elite.

>>13593784
More of this and less of butterfly. I'm feeling there is a need for a new thread just because of this.

>>13594559
Then we need actual goals rather than general and nebulous "environmentalism".
The Earth has been radically different throughout it's geological periods. So which state are we trying to achieve a homeostasis with? What is the level of tolerance that we can find acceptable. What metrics must we maintain at to keep this homeostatic equilibrium between man and nature?

I personally am not for shitting up the planet. We lucked out and got the good place rather than some shithole like Mars. We should be stewards and tend this garden.
But the current prevailing eco-ideology is not the way. It fundamentally sees humanity as a problem to a deific Earth and the endgame is fundamentally misanthropic. Meanwhile, opportunists will use this as a means to political power which poisons the well for the whole ideology.

>>13594517
Time to go back to your battery torture Uncle Nick.

>>13590874
to Abbey I would add Charles Bowden, who combines his disdain for industrial life with the gonzo style of Hunter S. Thompson and a keen eye for the personal stories that mirror the American west's ethic of extraction writ large on the landscape. He was one who really attempted to reckon with his heritage and its place in his soul, unlike many of the more whitewashed early environmentalists. 'Blue Desert' to start.

>>13590940
'Friction' by Tsing is excellent, bringing to life the multiscalar thinking necessary for untangling the knots of global supply lines in their mental or physical manifestations. This one looks stunning in its interdisciplinary assemblage - whenever she's involved, I can be pretty sure it is worth reading!

>>13590988
seconding 'Encounters with the Archdruid'. This was the book that finally opened me up to a view of "the enemy" as diverse, authentic, and justifiable in their sentiments even while they do great harm collectively. That jarring moment forces introspection! Just picked up 'Annals of the Former World', a U.S. geological history also by Jon McPhee; have you read it?

>>13591030
I keep returning to this at my local bookshop; nobody has picked up the copy over the last few months. Is it worth reading if you already are with the principle, aside from just providing examples for you?

>>13591452
Bioregional canons are the wave of the future for sure. For those not familiar with bioregional organizing, I highly recommend 'LifePlace' by Robert Thayer and 'Dwellers in the Land' by Kirkpatrick Sale. We must localize into self-sufficient collectives if we plan to erect any kind of dignified lifestyle for all people. Don't know if anyone else here is in the Sonoran Desert, but for those interested, here are some recs: 'Gathering the Desert' - Gary Paul Nabhan (most of his books, really), 'People of the Desert and Sea' - Mary Moser & Richard Felger, 'A Natural History of the Sonoran Desert' - Arizona-Sonora Desert Museum

>>13593784
it's too late for mass migration to be forestalled. There are far too many climate refugees already mobilizing. In a sense I've found myself agreeing that the exodus to the global north from impoverished nations is poetic retribution for the planetary rape and robbery committed by many of the northern constituents. Read 'Storming the Wall' by Todd Miller for more details on the above.

>>13593915
it feels wonderful to have finally acquired a framework for thinking about civilization and the global churnings which surround and penetrate us. OOO is so unique in its applicability to contemporary scientific thought. Morton's able to capture our fundamental uncertainty/anxiety as a result of the ontological gap between appearance & reality, felt particularly strongly when directed at oneself. >>13593982 should read this to become more comfortable with the implacable "process" character of all things, and >>13590862 should to understand the myriad intelligences already operating.

>>13590854
>/lit/ is an environmentalist board.
It's not.
>Let's create an environmentalist canon.
Ok, How do You want to organize the work?

>>13594676
you're totally right, >>13594345 >>13594559 are both either misinterpreting or just being obtuse. Contemporary environmentalism is full of white guilt that displaces itself onto "human guilt" pumped through the propaganda pipelines in such a way that it becomes recursive and actualizes itself. It has its benefits, but it is far from an adequate examination of our place as stewards and consumers of this planet. As you can read in 'Friction' and innumerable other texts, even indigenous groups who allegedly live in harmony with their surroundings have no such perception of their affairs. Everything is fragile, both less/more than it seems, and we have to allow for periods of imbalance - even dramatic changes like "invasion" by imported flora & fauna should not necessarily be condemned out of hand.

>>13590854
I want to plug here the work of acoustic ecologists R. Murray Schafer & Hildegard Westerkamp, along with the others following their movement. I think it behooves "literary people" to cultivate their actual listening skills, especially those with an interest in "the wild", since nonhumans typically can't employ written language, and since writing is cast against the background of thousands of years of oral tradition: clearly we are built for the latter just as much as (if not more than) the former. At any rate, 'The Soundscape' is considered the seminal work for acoustic ecology, and is applicable to urban planning, industrial design, wildlife conservation, musical composition, ethnography, etc. Once you get through that, read 'Soundwalking', the essay by Westerkamp, and consider purchasing basic recording equipment to help focus, enhance, or compose your surroundings.

>>13595853
Bruh, I didn't know that acoustic ecology existed until five seconds ago, but now I'm really interested! Thanks for the great rec.

>>13594387
What are you talking about? I love life. I fight against antinatalists, both theistic and nihilistic types. Christians are great haters of life.
>Hedonism
Look up Epicureanism. It’s negative hedonism.

>>13594576
Ending capitalism will end “globalism”. But this “human biodiversity” is as much a canard. If you cared about humans natural environment you’d call for us all to be put back in Africa naked.

>>13596160
>Christians are great haters of life.
Another great take by butters.

>>13590854
I don't enjoy talking about environmental issues with people out in the open because you get swarmed by confrontational, boorish, low-class jackasses questioning basic values of decency; they also tend to be ignorant of simple ecological topics. It is always a pain in the ass to debate them. I think the only solution at this point is antinatalism. I don't agree with Ted Kaczynski's solution. There is something fundamentally wrong with the humane psyche, and I doubt this will ever change. It's just best to eliminate the parasite altogether, which is humanity. Then again, it will rid itself on its own accord.
Anyways, let me just tell you that something as simple as clear, reflective glass windows have helped destroy the environment and mess up the ecological web, yet few people seem to do much about it or understand just how it disrupts the ecological order. I don't feel like clarifying further because I know I will be mocked by some autistic edgelord, and I genuinely hope anti-environmentalist edelords get their throats slashed.

>>13596686
antinatalism ...dropped

>>13597561
Fine, then I pick omnicide.

>>13596651
They hate this world. They look forward to their real life in the kingdom of their god. New convert or have I found a larper?

>>13597903
Did you do a blowjob for a large portion of the day?

>>13597903
>>13597921
I’m :3

>ahem

Why am I getting notifications for posts not quoting me now

>>13597931
I'm interested but who are you?

>>13597945
Madison Grant

>>13597933
Is this some kind of premium thing?

>>13597963
Clover mobile app got updated, we got rounded corners on all image thumbnails for some fucking reason too. Shit's disgusting.

>>13597963
So that’s a yes on the blowjob thing?

Can you at least say maybe? :3

Maybe

bump

>>13598711
>butterfly being that excited

I guess that’s a yes.

Kiss my cock again

No one has posted the only book that can save us.

Fuck this critical theory garbage.

>>13599336
I've been searching about opinions on permaculture for a while, would You kindly redpill me?

>>13599336
>dude just get everyone to farm their own food
Things will only change when people are forced to change.

>>13599362
OOO takes on ecology ain't gonna do shit.

>>13599350
It's the only sane way to grow your food.

>>13590858
>why should we care about the divine creation of almighty God
this line of thought is Gnosticism and it will lead you straight to hell

>>13599336
dope book, but there's no point in surviving if we enact the same mental patterns as our forebears. There's no need to throw meaningful tools out on either end of the theory/practice spectrum. I would say permaculture fits perfectly into the rubric laid out by OOO and Morton's railing against agrilogistics - why do you have to sperg out and act the pragmatist when they complement one another?

>>13599350
permaculture is incredibly based. the book already linked is an excellent intro. I'd also throw in 'Gaia's Garden' by Toby Hemenway, 'Rainwater Harvesting for Drylands and Beyond' by Brad Lancaster, 'The One Straw Revolution' by Masanobu Fukuoka, and 'Radical Mycology' by Peter McCoy. Essentially the point is to mimic or directly borrow wild plant guilds that "stack" functions by creating feedback loops. There's an emphasis on perennials v annuals for their soil-building character, and since - as earlier posters mentioned - tilling provides only a short term "fuel-burn" that ends up depleting the soil without further input. A good example would be mesquite, which provides shade, wildlife habitat, nitrogenous leaf litter that builds soil fertility and moisture retention, long taproots which water associated plants under the canopy through hydraulic lift, along with an edible, nutritious legume.

>>13600252
Give me a quick rundown on OOO ecology and how someone practicing permaculture would gain from sitting down and reading the mess that is post-Kantian philosophy and take advice from cowardly academics in the 21st century?

Heidegger had some not bad insights about technology but again, no one practicing permaculture would ever need to read him.

>>13600325
>no one practicing permaculture would ever need to read him
not that poster but the theory is more about generating a fundamental shift in attitude rather than coercing behaviour. Help people to understand how the accumulation of their minute actions can affect the ecosphere in magnitudes of increasing severity. It's less about what we SHOULD be doing than how to eliminate the problems we're facing now, IE. environmental apathy and the damage of reckless corporate/agricultural exploitation. Permaculture is definitely the way forward but we should also be building a case for why these developments are politically and socially necessary.

>>13600325
I'm not going to pretend to have deciphered all of said mess, but a lot of what he puts forward is about thinking across scales or our enmeshment with nonhuman life - and following that, respect for their status as subjects. Both those threads are useful in that they support an ecological thought that does not center the human. Even with a society of permaculture enclaves post-collapse, a lack of this sort of philosophy (not necessarily known verbatim) will just lead to further brute-force engagement and denial of what humans really are on this planet, which is to say entangled. I'm not by any means saying everyone has to get into this stuff to make a difference - just that ideally, practice and theory leading to similar conclusions would build coalitions around those conclusions and embrace the ecology of mind that the two can generate.

>>13592504
I have also noticed this pattern. Maybe it's because appealing to your survival seems to be a stronger (i.e. pragmatic) argument than the aesthetical appreciation of nature.

>>13596160
Human biodiversity means cultures and ethnies, not living naked in Africa

>>13600575
It means segregation is all. I’m not stupid.
Let people go where they may, you cowardly authoritarian snake

>>13592631
I just got a used copy of the green one that was in good shape, like a day after buying it a candled got knocked off my nightstand and threw the black wax everywhere so now my copy of Silent Spring has this splatter mark of oily black wax stuck on the cover.

>>13600594
t. globalist

>>13600626
the globalist project is not at all the same as unrestricted human movement

>>13599336
oh great a super expensive book

>>13597903
Read Kierkegaard honestly. The knight of faith reclaims the finite in a double movement out of the infinite, unlike the knight of resignation so epitomized by pagan heroes.

>>13600252
>>13600325
What’s OOO?

>>13601320
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Object-oriented_ontology

>>13595715
>Just picked up 'Annals of the Former World', a U.S. geological history also by Jon McPhee; have you read it?
No, but I've heard his name mentioned in some other books. Let us know how it is.

bumping for interest
Anyone got recs for biomimicry?

>>13603028
How do you mean “biomimicry?

—Mostly unrelated. I had this idea that we transform ourselves not so much with bits of plastics and metal but learn to control the microbiome of our bodies, adding specially designed sorts and eventually introduce a fungal variety. Replacing muscle with a stronger tissue etc. outward appearances can stay mostly human, but eventually people will just want to be better versions of themselves or completely different people, then maybe even hardly recognizable beings. Not cyborgs, biotechnoids
Any books like this?

And I meant to post this

>>13600614
Post a pic of it? Sounds cool honestly.

At least butterfly is doing one good thing: bumping this thread once in a while.

>100% certain I'm the only person on this board who has a physical copy of Annals of The Former World.

>100% of this thread is onions-subsisting GRIDSmode bugmen who would have total mental collapse if their iphone Xs lost service for so much as a few hours, let alone if the ritalin and takeout supply ran out

feels good

>>13603982

>>13592491
>Nig Swarm
How did he get away with it?

>>13600450
>>13600466
do you really think people need to read OOO in order to truly respect the environment?

>>13593822

"It's not an end, but a new beginning!"

>>13599336
This book makes me weary of it due to its blatant garden of eden symbolism, though that wouldn’t be too much of a problem if there wasn’t such a prominent snake making the symbol of infinity while also nearly forming an ouroboros

>>13605276
not in the least, I just think it's a useful transitional mode to deal with some of the more salient issues ingrained in the minds of people raised in the patchwork culture of capital, anthropocentrism, etc. The analytical western mind is not to be trusted as an absolute - that's what 'Dark Ecology' outlines best, and much of the contemporary environmental movement uses those absolutes as its foundation. It's hard to break out of our selective skepticism, and the thinking of other cultures can't just be imported wholesale to solve the problems of our own. Morton does a real service by re-injecting mysticism without departing from logic. he levels the paternalistic approach we take to managing the biosphere.

>>13603436
your thought reminds me of the biointelligent membrane detailed in this: https://additivism.org/cookbook

>>13592303
Wilson is neodarwinian cringe
> He makes a strong case for why agriculture (prior to feudalism, politics or capitalism) is the root of our failures to tackle climate change. We first began organising space through the line of the plough, populating it by sowing seeds, cultivating and confining a particular zone (meadow, acre, etc.) to our predetermined conditions. A weed is only a "weed" because we say it is. A weed by any other name would be just as irritating to a farmer.
so its merely another paul shepard derivative?

>>13593982
environmentalism isn't a coherent ideology, its more of a basal sentiment, nothing wrong with that. of course most environmentalists have backwards first principles for ecology. sorry for being enigmatic but just check out the entomologies for 'environment'
>>13594297
but Wilson was a life denier that thought living was merely noise
>>13594279
youre dumb bro. you sound like steven pinker or something
>>13593784
s m h, you people never actually care, or know anything about systematics. biodiversity isn't a buzzword faggot.
>>13594676
ecology is a science, not an ideology. politics should be about real life not narratives. most actual 'environmentalists' simply love their home and want what's best for it. environmentalism is a sentiment, you are reading a narrative that doesn't actually exist.
>>13595715
>OOO is so unique in its applicability to contemporary scientific thought.
its biosemiotics for middlings
>>13596686
people just need to be afforded a better way to relate to the world, expecting people to understand is too much, ecological problems require ecological solutions
>>13597903
that's really only gnostics. read 'johns' gospel, its evolutionary philosophy

>>13599350
>>13599336
>>13599375
>ywn see the precolonial permaculture gardens of the new Guinea highlands
>>13600575
find another buzzword
reading environmentalist books wont get you very far, you need to actually learn the science ecology, from systematics to natural history at their broadest

>>13606845
What does OOO stand for?

>>13607597
See
>>13601502
But I'm not sure how it would relate to environmentalism

>>13606581
Stop viewing everything in Christian terms ffs...

How to be a Conservative by Roger Scruton includes a chapter called "The truth in environmentalism", in which he argues a pro-environmental stance from a conservative philosophy. If we want to promote environmentalism seriously, we can't leave it to the idiot godless hippies on the left.