/lit/ - Literature

>tfw Eliot makes ANOTHER literary reference

>tfw Cervantes fakes references about Don Quixote in popular books

What's the allure of references? I don't see anything aesthetic in it. I understand when someone makes a reference to some sort of mythological/historical figure because they believe that the reference contains more descriptive power than mere adjectives ("He was muscular" vs "He was Herculean"), but Joyce seems to make references just for the sake of references with no ulterior goal.

I don't know, I just find it shallow and masturbatory.

I cant post porn gifs without getting banned

>>13574553
a few references are nice but taking dozens of references and putting them in a blender like Eliot does, feels artificial and gimmicky.

>>13574574
As I said on another thread: try reading the older Eliot. He drops that and writes really good poems.

>>13574509
>>13574513
>>13574553
>>13574574
>>13574586
If you don’t understand why these “references” are there, you don’t understand a very essential aesthetic choice.
Stick to Pynchon and Nabokov.

>>13574701
>y-you just don't get it dude lmao

>>13574701
Are you retarded? We are bantering, you dimwit faggot.

>>13574701
>stick to the real geniuses
okay I will

>>13574710
Yup. And quotations are a pretty common thing in art.

>>13574719
autism?

>>13574509
I thought he was dead

>>13574731
If pretending that makes you feel better, yes.

>tfw pynchon makes another DUDE WEED LMAO reference

>>13574735
>Yup. And quotations are a pretty common thing in art.
yea but they lessen the originality of a work of art, not that it's a bad thing.

>>13574509
>>13574513
>tfw I misread reference as masterpiece

>>13574749
What about quotidians?

>>13574701
Explain then instead of being a supercilious twat

>>13574701
retard. idiot. dumb. fool. explain to me RIGHT NOW what does these joycean reference adds to the text:

>Stately, plump Buck Mulligan came from the stairhead, bearing a bowl of lather on which a mirror and a razor lay crossed. A yellow dressinggown, ungirdled, was sustained gently behind him on the mild morning air. He held the bowl aloft and intoned:—Introibo ad altare Dei.

>—My name is absurd too: Malachi Mulligan, two dactyls. But it has a Hellenic ring, hasn’t it? Tripping and sunny like the buck himself.

>God! he said quietly. Isn’t the sea what Algy calls it: a great sweet mother? The snotgreen sea. The scrotumtightening sea. Epi oinopa ponton. Ah, Dedalus, the Greeks! I must teach you. You must read them in the original. Thalatta! Thalatta! She is our great sweet mother. Come and look.

Why does this faggot feels the need to put a latin catholic ritual or whatever citation in the text? What is he saying with it? Why is he referencing the Greeks? Does it add to the narrative, comprehension, sentence rhythm, structure, or does it even have any meaning at all? Why? Or is it... just posturing and saying "lol i read big brained books"
I know the answer to all of these, but i want to see a pseud like you try to mumble a coherent explanation as to why Joyce feels the need to reference texts that he never himself read. Yes, the guy didn't even knew Greek! That drunkard read The Odyssey on a PROSE VERSION. A prose version! If he was on /lit/ he'd get laughed to oblivion for reading a retarded prose version. He didn't even care to read it in verse for fuck sake! Only pseuds take him seriously

>>13575220
Not him but I think he's adding that for a comedic effect. Buck Mulligan thinks of his morning rituals as being quasi-religious and sacred. Get a sense of humour

>>13575277
oh i'm laughing so hard lol lmao nigga really funny

>>13575220
>The Odyssey on a PROSE VERSION. A prose version!
Sounds kino. All the English versions in verse are shit, anyway. The only decent one is Buckley's.

>>13575220
>>—My name is absurd too: Malachi Mulligan, two dactyls. But it has a Hellenic ring, hasn’t it? Tripping and sunny like the buck himself.
This doesn't have any references, or anything that you shouldn't be able to understand. I seriously hope you know what a dactyl is and what Hellenic means.

>>13575554
>he doesn't understand the Prometheus Bound reference
pseud

>>13574509
>Nabokov mentions another writer again in Lolita
Does Joyce do that EVEN MORE than Nabokov on his masterpiece?

Once again we must look to Melville to see references used in a good way, ie in a way that deepens the text and/or is humorous, not just to say "I know about X book guys!"

>>13574509
Anyone else notice that a lot of soijacks have a strange resemblance to Chris Watts?

"Ulysses" is basically "Ready Player One" of its time.

>>13575220
That's literally Mulligan's character. A blowhard and obtuse medical student. Agree with >>13575277 for the first quote.

>>13576919
>this is what redditors actually believe

>>13574553
Literary references are just ye olde memes

>>13575571
>You didn't read this yet so you're stupid

>>13575286
that's what the first quote means though

>>13575220
he read multiple versions and translations of the odyssey. joyce wanted to put everything (esp. the sorts of things familiar for an everyday dubliner) in ulysses to show that the novel as a form was exhausted. read any book by hugh kenner on modernism for clarity.

and yeah, pointing to another text does change the prose and narrative.

>tfw Hemingway references ANOTHER writer of the Lost Generation