/lit/ - Literature

>>13564240
Ah, shit, that's rough. I could see a characterless, plot-less but well-written and thoughtful book working.

>>13564240
Good prose and good plot/story/characters.
Good ideas and themes are born out of the interaction of the former two.

>>13564240
For novels: prose and plot
For non fiction: prose and ideas

>>13564240
Is there any writer who's all those three?

Prose and plot/story/characters.
You can have a great novel even with bland or overdone themes and ideas.
Without good plot/story/characters, good ideas have nothing to stand on, and without good prose, ideas cannot be well-enough communicated.

>>13564310
Orwell, 1984

>>13564240
Why have individual masters of the three not collaborated? Why is there so little collaboration in literature in general for that matter.

>>13564304

>>13564357
>Why is there so little collaboration in literature in general for that matter.
that's a good question. I guess it's because writers tend to be not very social and the idea of team work overwhelms them. Plus they want to control every aspect. But it could be interesting. There's the Strugatsky brothers, for example.

>>13564240
A good prose with a good plot, story and characters can make even a colonoscopy procedure worth reading.

>>13564310
Maugham.

>>13564240
anyone choosing prose is weak and bluepilled

>>13564335
Good Prose, Good ideas, yes.
Good plot/characters not so much.

>>13564424
the story was good for its time. now it's been done to death but it was fresh back then.

>>13564310
100 years of solitude

>>13564310
John Williams

>>13564240
Kill yourself

>>13564240
Why choose two when I can choose all three?
LOTR.

>>13564310
Nabokov

>>13564240
Kafka has all three of those.

>>13564240
Good prose and Good ideas/themes.

>>13564240
>bottom two every time
What should I dom

>>13564476
>anime fag

But...why?

>>13564310
Melville

>>13564571
Someone doesn't know where they are

>>13564722
for the keks

>>13564429
Even then, the characters were pretty wooden. Remember he just spent a chapter reading from Goldstein's book? Most boldface exposition I've ever seen.

>>13564757
>he's still living in 2004
This is a frog and Wojak website now.

>>13564782
Yeah sure mate. You have fun calling out people who post anime for the rest of your life. I'll have fun posting anime for the rest of mine. Our rivalry will be a tale of legends, of God's and Men, of niggers and faggots. big breast teen nude google images

>>13564795
>from cringe to based in a single post

>>13564816
>unironically saying cringe
from cringe to cringe++

>>13564310
Faulkner

bump

>>13564487
>Good prose

>>13565131
it's good prose

>>13564430
weird writer name

>>13564310
McCarthy

>>13564240
>making binary choices for no other reason than someone asked you to

>>13565394
>>13564948

>>13564240
What exactly is a good prose? And why is it important?

>>13565366
>Mr. Hundred Years O'Solitude

>>13565578
it wis when you write njot like dis

>>13564310
Danielewski
>inb4

>>13564487
>good characters

Good Prose and Good Plot for long door stopper.
Good prose good themes for short stories (under 250 pages).
Good Themes/ideas and good characters/story for genre fiction (not just fantasy but historical fiction, sci-fi, epics, detective tales, horror).

>>13565578
Flow, prose poetry, excellent euphemisms and godlike description; always using the right words—proper grammar—long-winded when it is called for, concise when not.

>>13565578
go out and buy copies of 50 Shades of Gray and The Waves (Woolf). read the first chapter of each one. you'll quickly realize what prose means and how some writing is good and other writing is bad

>>13564487
>good ideas

>>13565131
>>13565696
>>13565726
/lit/ being actual shit as usual

>>13565770
I think you meant to post elsewhere, anon

>>13564254
you do ideedees when you thonk real hard, dumb dumb

>>13564240
Good plot and good ideas.
How is this even a question?

>>13564310
Dante

You only need good prose and ideas/themes. For example, Journey to the End of Night has an absurdly asinine plot/character arc but is still a great novel.

>>13564286
not necessarily

>>13564240
I think that generic ideas done well are still interesting so I’ll say good prose and plot character story

>>13564240
>novels
lol I bet you watch talkies too

>>13564286
I think a good plot is borne out of good ideas. A lot of narratives are simply allegories for larger ideas.

>>13564310
Thomas Mann.

>>13564240
Good ideas and themes and good prose
Rarely get the third one anyway

Prose is a meme. Unless it's so bad it's unreadable, I don't really care.

>>13564310
Fitzgerald

>>13565935
>>13568080
what is with this new "prose doesn't matter" meme? is it the summerfags or

>>13564240
Is it possible to have none of these, and still have a good story?

>>13564310
Frank Herbert

>>13568504
yes, for instance the Bible and the Odyssey

>>13568548
The Bible has all three. KJV's writing style influenced an entire generations of artists. It has good stories and it's also thematically developed.

>>13568575
>The Bible has all three
>specifically points to KJV, the one with the worst prose, worst writing, and worst themes, overall being the most useless translation
delusional

>>13568548

>>13568609
Shakespeare says otherwise.

>>13568631
oh yeah, thanks for the reminder, every single one of his plays are also examples of works with none of the three attribute

>>13568736
pleb detected

>>13564240

Prose and characters. I want ONE (1) good book with a dragon MC. It doesn't have to be about anything else.

>>13568842
>I want ONE (1) good book with a dragon MC.
I too remember being 6 years old.

>>13564335

>>13567166
>catcher in the rye

>>13568244
I don't know about that. Although his prose and plot/story/characters are pretty good, I think that his themes/ideas weren't too profound. Sort of like they would soon lose their significance as time goes on. (The beautiful and the damned gave me that vibe especially).

But I might be saying that because I just haven't read the right Fitzgerald books.

>>13564240
Prose and ideas/themes.
I often manage to find even ridiculously dogshit stories tolerable.

>>13564869
Seconding this.
>>13564240
But if I had to pick, gimme prose and ideas.

>>13564254
So, a textbook?

>>13568435
Npc tier pseuds

>>13564773
You want the lore, you read the in-universe book, you have the lore. What's not to love?

>>13567421
I would like to say based but I've only read translations. But still based.

disproved by infinite jest, sirens of titan etc, blatantly false

>>13564844
how new?

>>13564240
Easy, I will take the prose and the ideas. The characters/plot are just made up things to push the ideas forward, they are not necessary

>>13569637
they have ideas going for them and story

>>13564240
good ideas + good prose = good
plot/story/characters

How can you describe an idea without a good prose?