/lit/ - Literature

>>13549578
Because it's the dominant form of anticapitalism.

>>13549578
Both sides do it, because: No matter what political stance, for the purely ideological person,it is much easier and convenient throwing memes and names than actually engaging any argument.

>>13549585
>21st century marxists are anticapitalist
Far right is unironically more anticapitalist than "leftists"

>>13549602
ok

>>13549602
this
the terrestrial left is fucked, the best we can hope for is some kind of homegrown racist uprising

>>13549602
How

>>13549578
Same reason Christians always assume you're an atheist if you dislike the Bible. These are very simplistic worldviews suited to highly simplistic persons.

>>13549611
They're in the vampire castle

Via anti-globalism

>>13549611

This is what leftism was saying in the 90's, Marcos the Zapatista wrote this

>>13549602
What you are calling the left is actually just neoliberal bootlickers. They only accept the progressive values that capitalism has sold them

>>13549639

>>13549611
Modern leftists are reformists cucks who think they're using capitalism from the inside when in reality capitalism is using them.

>>13549640
>ever major self proclaimed leftist movement in the west and the thousands of self proclaimed leftists in the west are all not the real left
Lad...

>>13549655
Self-proclaimed titles are worthless. There are homophobic islamitic political parties in europe that get labeled as progressive left

Capitialism got so good at subverting itself that there is no way to be anticapitalist and not be a LARPer.

>>13549687
Life isnt static, leftism now is not leftism 60 years ago grandma. I meet idiots like you all the time on here but it's funny that online is the only place I meet you precisely because people like you are the extreme minority and you're utterly powerless to reign in the capitalist attack dog that 21st century Marxism has become. All you can do is sit there and whine "BUT EVERYONE IS WRONG BUT ME!" into the void while every major western leftist movement continues to push headlong further into intersectional politics, critical race theory, and 4th wave feminism. Start fucking tackling the material reality of our situation instead of holding onto idealistic nostalgia. Anticapitalist leftism is dead.

I want white Juche

>>13549738
>capitalist attack dog that 21st century Marxism has become
Marxism is anti-capitalist by definition, if you percive otherwise the fault is in your head.
>Anticapitalist leftism is dead
It died after USSR fell, but it's being ressurected following the failure of neoliberalism.

>>13549578
>Why yes i'm a leftwing nationalist how did you know?

>>13549578
Why do commiebasterds?

>>13549796
>the left is being resurrected by the failure of the left
Whew

According to a previous thread capitalism refers to a system where capitalists are in control of political power. Under that definition would that not make anarcho-capitalists/libertarians anti-capitalist?

>>13549844
>Neoliberalism
>Left
are you retarded?

>>13549796
>duuuuudddde modern day marxists are actually anti-capitalist now come join antifa with me so we can resurrect the USSR by beating up everyone who doesnt support liberalism
Oh, you're just stupid got it

>>13549578
>why do people on the internet not put effort into their arguments

>>13549848
>anarcho-capitalists/libertarians
Literally pipedreams worse than communism and even there the capitalist would hold capital, hence power to live in material excess without the need for working.

>>13549855
>modern day marxists are actually anti-capitalist
>resurrect the USSR by beating up everyone who doesnt support liberalism
Sorry, this level of metamemetic irony is above being comprehensible.

>>13549864
The concept of self-ownership is antithetical to holding no capital. Your own existence is capital that you expend by living and can trade or throw away as you see fit.

>>13549864
Now reread that knowing that its exactly what the guy I replied to thinks will happen

>>13549888
>The concept of self-ownership is antithetical to holding no capital.
That's pretty much Marxism in nutshell.

However you need to own the means to subsist. In modern economy those have to be centralized, hence only small portion of population could hold enough capital to be a capitalist. In absence of martial phenomena, this small portion of people would be the dominant force in society.

>>13549913
Sounds to me the answer is a new martial phenomenon

>>13549849
Just because they aren’t as pure as thou?

>>13549915
Back to feudalism? Sounds fun.

>>13549920
Dood, neoliberalism has been almost synonymous with right wing since like 1970s. It has also been the main target of leftist hatred.

Because framing your opponent in a convenient way works. It is really easy to deflect critique of certain elements of capitalism by calling the other side a Marxist or communist.

Look at Trump supporters in his rallies - half of them can't even define socialism, but they sure do hate it.
They just know it is a "bad word". This avoids any substantial discussion about healthcare, safety nets, or education. Some lefties are also pretty bad at this, but at least they are not in the streets protesting their right to go bankrupt from an appendix infection.

t. leftycuck who's lived in several Nordic countries

>>13549940
Neoliberalism was never right, it was the liberal answer to the question of how to defeat the left states like the USSR after right states like Germany and Italy were gone. The right in the West was nothing but shaved-head meth addicts until the last decade when everyone realized the liberals were going to end history and the left was utterly obliterated.

>>13549940
>It has also been the main target of leftist hatred.
So leftists don’t exist?

>>13549913
So wait, is this "marx is wrong, but we need to do something about the status quo" or "marx is right, we need to abandon self-ownership"?

>>13549961
>Neoliberalism was never right
>Thatcher, Raegan and Nixon were leftists
>Akshually the real right are neonazis and internet larpers
give me a break

>>13549964
Neither, there wasn't an imperative or normative judgement.

>>13549578
For the same reason leftoids call you a neo nazi if you question for one second why governments should function in a self-destructive readistributionist fashion, they are intellectually insecure and attached to a comforting ideology

>>13549946
Yeah the left doesn't go around calling everybody a nazi without even knowing what the word means and doing protests on the streets against supposed nazis.

>>13549995

When the president of your country equates people marching with literal Nazi flags to their counter protesters, you have give some some leeway to the people who oppose them.

Also google, "Democrats are nazis", "Hitlery", "Letists are nazis" and stop pretending the right doesn't make inappropriate comparisons. Everyone does it, but only one side is ready to denounce them without stumbling.

>>13549975
>liberalism doesnt exist you're either a marxists or you're right wing
Is this some kind of false flag?

>>13549995
When the president of your country equates people marching with literal Nazi flags to their counter protesters, you have give some some leeway to the people who oppose him.

Also google, "Democrats are nazis", "Hitlery", "Letists are nazis" and stop pretending the right doesn't make inappropriate comparisons. Everyone does it, but only one side is ready to denounce them without stumbling.

>>13550070
It's either left or it is right. Western right has been mainly about liberalism for quite some time now.

>>13550068
>reddit spacing
>its correct to call trump a nazi
>boomers say stupid shit so it's okay for me to say stupid shit too
Shut the fuck up you retard this is the worst post I've seen on /lit/ in a long time. Go back to ledit

>>13550080
>liberalism is right
That's like saying red is green, you're just definitively incorrect. The right is anti-human rights, anti-democratic, anti-equality, etc. Theres no reasonable way to lump people like George Lincoln Rockwell and William Luther Pierce in with Georgr fucking Bush

>>13550104
Life isnt static, right now is not right 200 years ago grandma. I meet idiots like you all the time on here but it's funny that online is the only place I meet you precisely because people like you are the extreme minority and you're utterly powerless to reign in the capitalist attack dog that 20th century right has become. All you can do is sit there and whine "BUT EVERYONE IS WRONG BUT ME!" into the void while every major western rightwing movement continues to push headlong further into deregulation, tax breaks for big bussiness, and prevention/destruction of welfare state. Start fucking tackling the material reality of our situation instead of holding onto idealistic nostalgia. Throne and altar right is dead.

>>13550104
>anti-human rights
Leftists say every person should be entitled to means of subsistene. Liberalism say you have to earn it
>anti-democratic
Leftists say that people should have to right to dictate what companies should or shouldn't do. Liberalism denies that as attack on private property.
>anti-equality
Leftists say that current levels of inequality should be eradicated. Liberals say that the rich earned that wealth and that inequality is required for society to prosper.

>>13550131
I agree that nothing is static, political ideologies evolve. On the left you can see overtly pro-USSR workers movements turn into New Left student movements on the 60s into feminist and intersectional black blocks like we have now in the form of antifa. The right evolved as well, GLR and Yockey were overt national socialists who had actual interactions the former regime and all of them met violent/mysterious ends. Then you get typical methhead neo-nazis and good old boy KKK types like Pierce and Duke in the 70s and 80s. It's not until the 2000s you get the internet giving new clean cut generation like Spencer and Rousseau a platform. Both left and right have a clear genealogy just as liberalism does in the mainstream. Really a lot in your post could be turned on the left. In fact it reads like someone wrote it about the left lol

>>13550081
>Shut the fuck up you retard

High quality response.


It's not reddit spacing, it is my own special kind of OCD about having enough space between "ideas".

I didn't say it is correct to call him a Nazi, but there is enough evidence that he won't condemn an outright open hate group, if he feels it would cost him support.

>boomers say stupid shit so it's okay for me to say stupid shit too
Our whole conversation started because I said that Trump supporters have no idea what socialism is and you responded by saying that the left call people "Nazis" without knowing what it is. And you are accusing me of whataboutism? Have some self awareness and learn to calm down.

At least my comparison made sense, because both sides throw around the word "Nazi" too often.
You equating lefties to Trumpists are inaccurate because people know what Nazism is, even if they are prone to hyperbole when attributing it so someone. Trump supporters often haven't got the slightest clue about the differences between socialism, communism, Stalinism, and Marxism, and decry socialist policies even though they use them (like social security).

>>13549578
It's Bayesian.

>>13550189
He condemned both hate groups on both sides which is pretty par the course for liberalism. I'm not who you were originally responding to but your reply was so pants on head retarded that I had to call you out for being a nigger. If your ideas are so disjointed and garbled that your post is a series of doubled-spaced half full lines then your ideas are really not worth tangling with. Why should anyone engage your ideas if you cant engage them properly yourself?

>>13550076
>marching with literal Nazi flags to their counter protesters
The "counter protesters" had commie flags and started the violence.

>>13550180
>The right evolved as well, GLR and Yockey were overt national socialists who had actual interactions the former regime and all of them met violent/mysterious ends. Then you get typical methhead neo-nazis and good old boy KKK types like Pierce and Duke in the 70s and 80s. It's not until the 2000s you get the internet giving new clean cut generation like Spencer and Rousseau a platform.
Litrally only name I recognize is KKK, so these memes are likely to be irrelevant. People who defined modern, western right wing were Thatcher, Nixon, Raegan.

>>13550178
>Leftists say every person should be entitled to means of subsistene. Liberalism say you have to earn it
The right says that human rights dont exist and get in the way of bringing our people prosperity over others. Do you see the difference here?

>Leftists say that people should have to right to dictate what companies should or shouldn't do. Liberalism denies that as attack on private property
The right believes the nation should have a right to dictate what companies should or shouldnt do.

>Leftists say that current levels of inequality should be eradicated. Liberals say that the rich earned that wealth and that inequality is required for society to prosper.
The right says that inequality is a fact of life but that the same hierarchy can be applied to groups and theres no reason our group as a whole can't place itself collectively on the top.

>>13549602
Cringe

>>13550250
>I dont know anything about the right so I'll just make shit up lol who was Hitler
Ignorance isn't an argument

>>13549796
>Marxism is anti-capitalist by definition, if you percive otherwise the fault is in your head.
Oh sweaty.

>>13550282
It is though. Ignorance marks irrelevance. Everyone knows Raegan, only small number of people knows "GLR ".

>>13550268
For real? Find me a 10+% Western right wing party that says that human rights don´t exist.

>The right believes the nation should have a right to dictate what companies should or shouldnt do.
So..right is democratic?

>>13550328
>It is though. Ignorance marks irrelevance. Everyone knows Raegan, only small number of people knows "GLR ".
I'm talking about your ignorance. Everyone knows who David Duke is, he was a Louisiana state representative and he just had that big movie about him. There was a giant controversy where Richard Spencer was just on CNN giving the right wing view of Trump, he routinely comes on political shows to do that. You either don't live in the US or you're underage if you dont know who these people are.

>Find me a 10+% Western right wing party that says that human rights don´t exist
Golden Dawn routinely polls around 10% and was the 3rd largest party in Greece until very recently.

>>13550409
>Everyone knows who David Duke is, he was a Louisiana state representative
Why the fuck should I care about regional american politicians?

>You either don't live in the US
Why do you presupose that all posters here are mutts? Obviously I'm not a mutt.

>Golden Dawn routinely polls around 10%
They never reached that number and I don't remember them explicitely denying human rights.

>>13550634
>David Duke
>Regional
Stopped reading here. You're clearly out of your element talking about something you know little about. You've been btfo like 3 times at least in this thread and you're only real come back has bee "well I dont know enough to reply to you so I'm just right" like you're a toddler or something. Unless you have the intellectual maturity to admit when you dont know enough about a topic to be an authority on it, I dont think theres anything to be gained here. Lurk more and go read

>>13550688
yeah, he's so local that he's nonexistent

>>13550688
>You're clearly out of your element talking about something you know little about.
Yea, I don't particalury care about mutt politics. But mutts aren't the itopic and even then Trump is the leader of American right wing, these retards you speak of are irrelevant.

>You've been btfo like 3 times at least in this thread
Where? All you've done is misunderstand the concepts of left and right.