/lit/ - Literature

>>13542931

“What the Buddha Taught” by Theravadin Rahula is a great start and good introduction to Buddhism

>>13542931
Read the Milinda Panha, Letters to a Friend by Nagarjuna and then Mein Kampf by Hitler.

>>13542938
"Seeing that frees" is also good for Insight

what is the reason for people's varied inclination towards spiritual teachings? is it just past karma or does dukkha the impermanence of things starts to dawn on all beings eventually after many births just like the silliness of playing with toys starts to dawn on a child once he's old enough? Do beings have varied number of rebirths at any given time or do we all who are sentient beings at this point of time have had equal number of births and solely depending on our karma we have varied inclination towards ultimate truth?

>>13542931
Science.

>>13542931

>>13542931
introduction to the study of the hindu doctrines - guenon

>buddhism is like science bro

>>13543357
Buddhist don't believe in gods retard.

>>13543324
>do we all who are sentient beings at this point of time have had equal number of births and solely depending on our karma we have varied inclination towards ultimate truth?
Yes and no. All the souls incarnate for the first time simultaneously at the start of a cycle, but at any given time they have different number of rebirths because each life last a different amount of time. But yes, you are correctly seeing it, if you took two individuals with the same number of lives lived, they would have a different inclination to spirituality based on the decisions they took so far from the beginning of the cycle.

>>13543059
OP don't think this post is a meme
Letter to a Friend and Milindapanha are both top tier Buddhist reading especially for beginners

>>13542938
links to accompany
https://web.ics.purdue.edu/~buddhism/docs/Bhante_Walpola_Rahula-What_the_Buddha_Taught.pdf
http://obo.genaud.net/backmatter/indexes/sutta/sutta_toc.htm
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/
https://suttacentral.net/
http://seeingthroughthenet.net/books/
http://www.buddha-vacana.org/

Are there any books that provide a metaphysical justification or defense for the causal interdependence and the nonessential essence of self doctrines?

Am I wrong in thinking that Buddhism is really just a practice and not something that can be intellectually justified?

>>13543357
That's not a book dumbass

>>13544806
no

>>13544642
probably nagarjuna
don't sure about what part/book exactly though

>>13544806
Stoicism is what you need bro.

>>13544642
It's not really metaphysical, more like phenomenological.
subject is dependent on object
object is dependent on subject
conceit of "the world" is dependent on perception through the six sense doors.
Intention/volition is dependent on aversion/desire fueling the intention which is dependent on hedonic feeling (pleasant/unpleasant/neutral) which is dependent on contact (sensory input).
Read the suttas on the Law of Dependent Arising.
Read Nagarjunas Mulamadhyamakakarika.
Maybe read the book about the Law of Dependent Arising (and the book on contact) listed in the chart posted earlier.
That should be good

>>13544806
when you critical think about the nature of ultimate reality aren't you justifying the practice intellectually

>>13544806
Not at all. The Buddha said his teachings are to be put into practice more than anything else. He didn't set out to explain the world as a philosopher, he set out to provide people a comprehensive method to end suffering. Some monks say that a good phrase to sum up the Dhamma is "for the sake of." It is a method.

>>13545877
I was reading an introduction to Buddhism and it said karma isn't even something that a Buddhist has to believe in. Would you say this is the same with everything outside of the 4 noble truths?

>>13545898
throw that book away right now

None of the books I've seen discussed so far offer a layman's introduction to Mahayana Buddhism, it's mostly Theravada or technical primary-source Mahayana. So might I recommend Khenpo Karthar Rinpoche's "Dharma Paths"?

It's an accessible introduction to an authentic Tibetan vision of Mahayana Buddhism, translated from the teachings of an incredibly realized master (full disclosure, he is the guru of my main teacher, so I'm a bit biased, but all the same I do think it's good if you're looking for what it offers).

>>13545898
It is natural to be skeptical about things which you have no prior experience in, but the general rule is to not deny anything in Buddhism.
It's possible to not have strong faith in something like rebirth without outright denying it/calling it bullshit with absolute certainty.
I'd say that's the bare minimum. Also to be honest, the only cases in which I find that people doubt karma are cases where they don't understand karma very well/have misconceptions regarding how it works.
Karma is almost synonymous with "action" or "volition." It is about how your intentions and actions affect your state of mind and by extension the quality and character of your experience.
The only part about this that isn't immediately observable is the way it extends into rebirth and relates to past lives.
Karma isn't a universal justice system where if you give someone $5, someone else will give you $5 later down the line.
Karma entirely operates within the mind/is an entirely mental process - but the thing is, "Mind is the forerunner of all things."

Maybe my mind is too irredeemably western because I just can't accept something without reason. I need to think a philosophy is true before I live it.

>>13545961
Well then read about Buddhism and figure out what you think is legit/immediately verifiable and what you think is "unreasonable" or impossible to prove.
Practice Buddhism based on what you accept, and stay open to the possibility of the things you don't yet believe, not denying them.
The promise is that you can "come and see" everything the Buddha teaches directly. This even includes recollection of past lives.
Faith is important in Buddhism insofar as it inspires you to practice on the basis that you think the method will yield the promised results, and that those who have taught the method know what they are talking about.
You are not expected to have blind faith all the way through. The promise is that you can discover all these things for yourself, firsthand, directly.
I think that the parts you find verifiable will vastly outweigh the parts you think are unverifiable for the time being.
Do you have to go all or nothing in everything you do? Do your friends and family have to have no character traits that you find disagreeable or less than ideal, before you can try having a relationship with them?

>>13546003
I have no doubt that you can have spiritual experiences while practicing meditation but how do you know those experiences are true or good?

I can't help but think every follower of eastern traditions commit a pragmatic fallacy. They start practicing it and start feeling better and they take this as evidence of it being true.

>>13546031
How do you know if anything you experience is "true"?
How do you know that what you perceive is objective reality when you cannot see from any perspective other than your own to compare?
An experience is an experience.
The main purpose of Buddhist practice comes down to closely studying/examining your experience firsthand. It's not really about philosophizing or following what people tell you to do. It comes down to studying and understanding reality as you experience it.
As for whether they're good or not - Buddhists who make spiritual attainments pretty much universally say that practicing Buddhism is the best thing they've ever done, especially after attainments like Stream-Entry. People across the board say these experiences amd attainments make them into kinder, gentler, more compassionate and virtuous people, make them at peace with experiential reality when it's understood without delusion or obscuration.
You can read more about these attainments on your own online, you don't have to take my word for it.
How do you know if any practices or experiences are good?
All you can really do is go by what others say and try it for yourself to confirm.

>>13546031
>>13546100
For you types, try reading Mastering the Core Teachings of the Buddha by Daniel Ingram. It is probably the perfect introduction to Buddhism for Westerners coming from a typically materialist background or skeptical background.
To expect someone of your background to dive right into like, Tibetan Tantra and Deity Yoga would be absurd.
Try that book out and see what you think.

>>13542931
Are there any good Buddhist books that deal with the criticisms levied on it by Hinduism and Vedanta ?

>>13546156
This is gonna start a complete shitstorm in this thread, but the criticisms of Madhyamaka Buddhism (the reigning school at the time for representing earliest Buddhism) by Adi Shankara were very brief and dismissive. Shankara dismissed emptiness as meaning "nothingness" in some nihilistic sense and failed to attack Madhyamaka in any meaningful way. He either didn't really understand Madhyamaka, or he was being dishonest in his approach.
The schools which he did effectively take down are essentially obsolete revisionist schools which Nagarjuna took down himself in his time. You've probably seen that screenshot of those posts going over Shankara's criticisms of "Buddhism" - but none of the ideas of those schools he criticized can be found in the earliest Buddhist texts.

>>13546242
Oh wow, starting Hegel by reading Kierkegaard

Bump

>>13542931
Buddha bless me. Buddha bless you.

How do Buddhist societies keep from degenerating? It seems to relativistic so people can ultimately justify whatever behavior they want.

>>13548726
Weird that you came to that conclusion. Buddhist ethics are very strict. "No killing, not even for life's sake." Etc etc.
Abortion is illegal in most (if not all) Theravadin countries.

>>13548881
Is it the wrong conclusion about Buddhism? I understand that even the injunctions against killing aren't absolute because that would violate the middle path.

>>13542931
Just stay away from Mahayana Buddhism because it's materialistic crap, read pretty much all Theravada material.

>>13543937
Too bad there's no good complete version of the Milindapanha. Not in print, anyway. Is the German version complete? It's 443 pages long, I think.

>>13548929
http://www.buddhanet.net/pdf_file/milinda.pdf
>>13548925
Ehhhh I'd be careful about saying that too, because the Theravadin commentaries, Abhidhamma, Visuddhimagga...etc tend to deviate from the Suttas in very important ways.
Although if by "Theravada" you mean the Pali Canon, I agree fully. The Pali Canon is vast with plenty of material to read, and it is pretty much the most reliable source for Buddhism.

>>13548908
The injunctions themselves are absolute but the karmic consequences are not, because karma isn't deterministic, but infinitely complicated (hence the salt crystal sutta: https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an03/an03.099.than.html ).
The specifics of karma however do not mean that the ethical codes aren't strict. The Five Precepts are considered the bare minimum for a Buddhist. That's the absolute minimum. A really good Buddhist goes above and beyond the Five.

>>13548925
Early Mahayana (or rather, early Madhyamaka) was extremely faithful to the earliest Buddhist texts, even moreso than some traditional Theravada (certainly more than their commentarial literature). But yeah beyond that I would also advise avoiding Mahayana until you have a thorough grasp on what the Buddha taught in the Pali Canon prior to sectarian divisions.

>>13548993
>Not in print

Thanks, but I can't read anything that's longer than a couple dozen pages unless it's on paper.

>>13549055
https://store.pariyatti.org/Questions-of-King-Milinda-The-_p_1466.html
https://store.pariyatti.org/Milindas-Questions-2-Volume-Set_p_2083.html
Pariyatti will have most Theravada Buddhist literature if you search for it on there.
PTS translations are the best.

>>13549055
>>13549076
Or you can order from here:
http://www.palitext.com/
Go to Publications -> List of Our Publications -> Translations -> CTRL+F "Milinda's Questions'
Just noticed the PTS translation isn't in stock on Pariyatti, so you'd probably have to get it straight from the PTS website if you want their version