/lit/ - Literature

>>13521942
Read this article: https://c4ss.org/content/50888

It's a book review of an anarchist book about ecofascism, but there's lots of valuable stuff there even if you don't know who Bookchin is. (Though I'll assume you know Ted and other primitivists)

Not super-related, but this is a nice article if you're into folk horror like a lot of other fashy types: https://thebaffler.com/latest/children-of-the-wicker-man-millar-semley

>>13521942
Ecofascism isn't a real, organized ideology. I would however recommend the following:

The Technological Society by Jacques Ellul
Comments on Society of the Spectacle by Guy Debord
Simulacra and Simulation by Jean Baudrillard
Industrial Society and its Future by Theodore Kaczynski
Anti-Tech Revolution by Theodore Kaczynski
Political Theology by Carl Schmitt
Gentle Introduction to Unqualified Reservations by Mencius Moldbug
Can Life Prevail by Pentti Linkola
Discipline and Punish by Michel Foucault

Some will say this list is shit and a lot of it has nothing to do with ecological activism but it is important to understand power, politics, (systems of) control, and the genealogy of the current cultural climate.

>falling for the honey bee scheme

not possible since facism de facto doesn’t try to eliminate capitalism, which is the root of all environmental problems
this thread and it’s really fast complete answers are proof that this is a bot scheme and only trying to deflect attention to true transcendental politics: destroy capitalism

>>13522383
Shhh, the two first links I posted were strongly anti-fascist. Now we just gotta wait for some impressionable teenager to click it and see the light ;)

I don't understand why someone would write books about eco-fascism. Environmentalism and fascism are such disparate beliefs that it would be nonsensical to write about them both in a book. If you want to read about environmentalism read books about environmentalism. If you want to read about fascism read books about fascism. Trying to push the two together is weird and cringe.

>>13522383
>laughs in chernobyl

>>13521942
Have a chart

FUCK NIGGERS DEM BEES ALRIGHT THO

>>13522383
What is China?

>>13522500
The largest capitalist nation on earth?

>>13522487
https://blog.education.nationalgeographic.org/2018/01/29/honeybees-help-farmers-but-they-dont-help-the-environment/amp/

>>13522514

>>13522383
>facism de facto doesn’t try to eliminate capitalism
Fascism is economically agnostic.
A genuine eco-Fascists advocates against global capital threatening the ecological system.

>>13522532
Are you retarded?
If China were an example of communism it would be it's greatest success story.

>>13522470
Fascism, at least the Nazi version of it, borrows heavily from environmentalism. That should be pretty evident to anyone familiar with the ideologies.

>“An ecology that is mystical, in turn, may become justification for a nationalism that is mystical.”

>>13522476
>>13522500
You do realise that you can be an anti-capitalist without supporting the various communist dictatorships of the 20th century?

Also, using China as an example is a bit silly, since their centralised structure has enabled them to transition to renewable energy faster than any western country.

I'm not supportive of China in any way though, they only made the switch to "renewable" energy long after it had hit the mainstream and they knew it would be profitable.

>claim to be against refugees
>shill invasive and destructive bees

>>13522532
Is China stateless, have social classes gone, is capital in the hands of the public, did they remove money? If any of those are false then no, communism isn't happening in China

>>13522383
tell that to the greatest fascist to ever live: pol pot.

>>13522593
he was a commie

>>13522593
>I get to just conviently write off communist as fascist any time I want to when it makes communism look bad
This is unironically Denish tier “hitler was a leftist” nonsense

>>13522542
>Environment is dying because of capitalism
>China switched to renewable energy because it would be profitable
Hmmmmm

to whom is china going to sell their garbage once the west enters recession lmao

>>13522635
Same shit, different name

>>13521942

>>13522635
I don't care what you call it Pol Pot was based and had the right idea.

>>13522542
What are you talking about? Environmentalism as understood today is saving the environment through using renewable energy and recycling and the lot. It has nothing at all to do with fascism. You can be a fascist if you want, you can be a fascist environmentalist if you want, but trying to jam the two together is really fucking weird.

>first half of the book talks about destruction of nature and ways we can go about making a cleaner and greener planet
>second half of the book is about how the white race is the best and we should destroy all brownies
????

>>13522672
but did he really need to kill all those people? at least Mao didn't go out of his way to massacre a quarter of the population

>>13522662
That's absurd.
Communism and Fascism are fundamentally incompatible and contradictory.

A communists tries to achieve communism, which usually ends in a mediocre dictatorship that tries to make the impossible possible.
Fascism is a centrist ideology which tries to unite the modern with traditional and socialism with capitalism, it chooses dictatorships because it is the best form of government to lead a people through times of struggle.

>>13522684
>at least Mao didn't go out of his way to massacre a quarter of the population
where the fuck would he have disposed that many corpses? logistically not feasible.

>>13522662
Nice post anon, is because the word socialism is in National Socialism? Because that's a real 5 head take.

>>13522671
>but trying to jam the two together is really fucking weird.
If you look at modern environmental movements it becomes pretty obvious that it is the only way to preserve our nature.
Shrieking lefties who further the expansion of capital through immigration or globalization are doing worse than nothing.

>>13522684
It had to be done.

>>13521942

>>13522671
Modern Environmentalism started with National Socialism

>>13522714
so crazy co2 taxes and gretardation is hitler's fault?

>>13522703
Yet "lefties" are the only ones who seem to care about the environment, while right wingers constantly push back against it and lick the balls of fossil fuel companies.

>>13522766
Big thread on /pol/ rn about how Climate Change is made up as proof of this. Anons are really earning those fossil fuel bucks today.

>>13522766
>Yet "lefties" are the only ones who seem to care
Not enough to stop immigration or globalization.
If someone says "I care about X" but then DOES something which goes absolutely against X, what do you do?
Yes, the left has taken the environmentalist movement pretty much entirely but they are absolutely catastrophic when it comes to actually doing something about it.

You can't stand there and seek to protect the environment, while also wanting third world immigrants to replace the naturally falling native populations and not be a giant hypocrite.
What the environment needs, and what the leftists are doing are inherently at odds which each other, which is why eco-fascism is needed.

>while right wingers constantly push back against it and lick the balls of fossil fuel companies.
Calling Fascism, especially eco-Fascism, "right wing" is missing the entire point.
It seems to preserve nature and the traditional/natural state of man amongst nature, obviously global capitalism is entirely incompatible with that which is why every eco-fascist is against global capital.

idk whats going on in this thread but I heard Schuons crew talked about how metal just seethes evil energy.

>>13522539
>China is completely communist
>Yeah dude, I'm alive in a comatose state and hooked up to ten machines, I'm a success story!

>>13522867
Whom are you quoting?

>>13522542
>Also, using China as an example is a bit silly, since their centralised structure has enabled them to transition to renewable energy faster than any western country.

And then they had to revert to using coal because school children were freezing to death.

>>13522806
Most lefties are smart enough to know that immigration is a symptom not a cure. Most immigrants move for economic reasons. Reasons they wouldn't have if the world wasn't such a capitalist shithole. How exactly would being anti immigration as opposed to say, anti war, be better for the environment? Additionally a militarized border would end up using a lot of oil to even function. Resulting in more fuel consumption. Additionally. most lefties I know push autonomous communities that need as little support from a capitalist outside as possible. The consequences of a socialist society fix immigration issues and a globalized economy by nature of a self sustainable society. The warlike nature of fascism would only stay the course of industrialism. Regardless of how many forests for Odin are grown in your fantasies.

>>13522887
[Citation needed]

>>13522914
>Most lefties are smart enough to know that immigration is a symptom not a cure.
Yeah, about that...

>>13522914
What I don't understand is why lefties say that socialism will cure climate change. Won't the fossil fuel workers just take the place of fossil fuel companies and vote against all reforms for fear of losing their jobs/having to move out

>>13521942

>>13523161
This is how anti-fascists look like.

>>13522548
UNBEELIEVABLY based. grow native senpai.

>>13522914
>pain is just a symptom of being sick so let me inject you with some stuff that makes you feel even more pain, it will all go away when you stop being sick in some unspecified future

>>13522548
>bees destructive
this is literally the opposite of the truth
the ecosystem would collapse without bees

fuck you, you idiot

>>13523446
A lot of bees are imported foreign bees that can wreck havoc on various native populations, it's not that simple.

>>13523446
Honeybees are proven to supplant native bees when they begin to encroach on a habitat. They literally are an invasive species to most zones they're currently in, but since they're domesticates Facebook-sharing troglodytes like you get all rowdy about saving them. Obviously it's better to have any pollinator services than none at all, but natives are the ones evolved for the tasks required by their ecosystem's flora, which ultimately has major ripples down the chain. quit being so aggro

>>13523566
Those are some cute boys

>>13523616
>>13521942
here's some good bee /lit/
http://thepoliticalbeekeeperslibrary.org/

>>13523637
Cool. I might not filter your trip after all

>>13522935
The destruction of the oil industry is necessary to ensure an imperialist free future, by any means necessary. This is not a universal leftist belief. few things are, but at least by my standards we cannot peruse a socialist future while that still exists. Revolution requires a sacrifice to be made, and not everyone gets to walk away winners. Even if they're workers. To say we can just teach them new skills is a possibility but it's the learn code answer. It's a cop out unrealistic comfort answer. Like I said, a few people need to lose for the revolution to work. The hope is just that the consequence of that is that their children get to know and live in a better world.

>>13522935
>>13523741
Inb4 the evil socialist just admitted to not being for workers. The hope would be to support these people after all was said and done. To have them still be able to live in our society despite being less productive members of it. They would still be allowed low skill labor jobs and of course would still be fed and taken care of. Just the job would be eliminated from the society. After that generation. No new fossil fuel workers will be trained.

>>13523423
Yeah, not like an entire school of political theory irons out specifics or anything. Nice try. Doesn't change the fact capitalism and militarism contributes observably more than immigration ever would. Keep being mad at people with a darker skin tone though because of a problem your leaders are causing. Makes a lot of sense.

>>13522383
>which is the root of all environmental problems
Didn't the Soviet Union literally destroy an entire sea?

>>13522542
>Also, using China as an example is a bit silly, since their centralised structure has enabled them to transition to renewable energy faster than any western country.
This is advocacy of absolutism vs democracy, not communistm vs capitalism.

As such, I support it.

>>13522914
This is an unbelievably stupid post.

Anything but actual ecology, the ideal fascist social system is antagonistic to the way things actually work in the ecosphere. It completely ignores ecology and greenwashes fascism, it'd be better named 'fascist environmentalism' or 'fascist preservationism' as "ecofascism" does not advocate for human ecology, and is in general not very homely. it will always fall short of being an ecological ideology, can't serve two masters

>>13523907
fuck yes. So many good posts coming out of the woodwork lately on /lit/. the pressures of ecological collapse and its attendant "human" concerns seem to be a crucible for worthwhile content, if nothing else. Our societies should model themselves on our environments.

Anything by Pentti Linkola + Uncle Ted manifesto

>>13521942
Bump

I've ranted a bit about environmentalism and environmental change on here before.

Ecofascism is of course just another lame attempt at greenwashing an environmentally incompatible ideology.

If anyone's bothered to read the first article I posted >>13522284 you'll see that the third reich were proto-environmentalists in a lot of ways.
>>13522671
Claiming that the two are incompatible when the nazi slogan is literally fucking "Blood and Soil" is a bit silly.

The nazis were some of the first in Europe to create nature reserves, and they implemented a lot of other policies regarding the environment as well.
But the problem was that while they were pretending to be mystical pagan hippies, they were also waging the most destructive war in world history, and feeding the industries needed to fuel that war.

Most people should know that fascism is a deeply self-contradicting ideology, but it's spooky how it tries to come back in a new shape or form every few years or so: Ecofascism was NOT a popular thing before the environmental crisis went über mainstream.

Here's a nice quote from the second article I posted, about the movie Wicker Man, (which I assume most of you are familiar with:
The horror latent in folk horror, then as now, is not an abject fear of pagans or free-loving hippies or straight-up Satanists. It’s the unsettling knowledge that the people are often all too willing to trade one form of power and subjugation for an aesthetically different manifestation of those same conditions, if only to restore faith in power itself. Even if the crops continue to fail, and the heathens of Summerisle never again taste a locally sourced organic apple, it doesn’t matter: the sacrifice succeeds. Killing Howie need not bring back the damn apples themselves, so long as it restores faith in ritual, mysticism, heathen magick, and the other counter-Enlightenment energies that Lee’s Summerisle, in all his sinisterness and sartorial preposterousness, wields in a perverse seasonal pageant, all undertaken to consolidate his own power: as gentry and patriarch, one Lord substituted for another.

Will continue in more posts....

>>13522486
Do NOT read impeachment of man.
It's a total fucking meme without any depth and just the ramblings of a crazy cat-lady.

>>13522355
>associating ellul with any fascism
lol

ENVIRONMENTALISM AND THE PROBLEM WITH STATES:

The recent hype about the climate crisis is literally fucking disgusting, it's the kind of thing that makes me realise that all of our opinions are being fabricated, to serve politicians needs.
The climate crisis is not a new thing, far from actually. We've known about it for around a hundred years or so.

I'm not trying to say that global warming isn't real or manmade, it's definitely both of those things. My problem is with this constant focus on leviathan power structures, both natural and manmade.
It's like the old marxist cliché about worldwide communist takeover: it's either reform or revolution. And what choice does that leave to the individual?

It's the same with the contemporary narrative on climate change. Over the last 10-20 years or so, we've seen it shift from individuals or small communes exploring different, more eco-friendly ways of living, and various small-scale activism, to top-down legislative environmentalism by the government.
Now, I'm not just being pissy about the original activists not getting the recognition they deserve, the problem is that states and statism are super inefficient ways of governing, as witnessed by the 100 years it took them to react to climate change.

Change ALWAYS comes from the bottom-up. Sure, it may be co-opted by the government at some point and turned into legislature, but that doesn't change where it came from.

The fight for the environment has always been a fight against various governments and the companies that they watch over. Most industries that tend to be damaging to the environment, also tend to be wholly unsustainable without the massive support they receive from the state.
Throwback to the nature-loving nazis, (and all other states for that matter), building a giant network of roads with taxpayer money.

>By socializing the costs of the transportation of goods amongst all people, rather than amongst those who produce and consume the goods, there is far less of an incentive for consumers to consume locally.

WHAT'S A CLIMATE CRISIS?

We're all tempted to just lie down and rest now that the government has finally pulled their finger out of their ass, and that's exactly what they want us to do.

SOMETHING IS ROTTEN IN THE STATE OF DENMARK:

I live in Denmark, a european country, sadly like many other europeans countrys, with literally no old-growth forest left. Yet somehow our attention is always diverted as far away as possible, be it the giant, ungraspable problem of climate change, or the burning of rainforests on the other side of the world. This prevents the individual from trying to create change outside of the system.

I saw an icelandic ad recently, calling for the ban of unethically sourced palm oil. Fucking Iceland. The country that literally chopped down every tree on their island, and had to import wood for a thousand years.

Now, Iceland has begun growing forests again, but the funny thing is: If you speak to a lot of icelandic people, they'll tell you that they don't like the trees, and that they're ruining the unique icelandic nature.

Which begs the question: What is nature, and what is important to us?

WHAT IS NATURE?

First things first, we have to realise that nature is an entirely man-made concept, though that doesn't mean that the various eco-systems of earth can't benefit from how we define nature.

The common idea I seem to get from the very shallow discourse on environmentalism today, is that climate change is bad because it lowers bio-diversity, and of course all of the negative impacts it will have on humans as well.
Many animals, humans included, will be able to survive climate change, so what's the big fuss?

NOT THE FIRST CLIMATE CRISIS:

As I wrote earlier, I live in a country with no old-growth forest left, but the problem in Denmark didn't even start with agriculture. By the end of the stone age, most large land mammals had been wiped out by simple hunter-gatherer tribes. With the advent of christianity, and mans dominion over nature, the rest were wiped out. By the time of the national-romantics, they were writing poems celebrating wheat fields, heath and oak plantations as the natural treasure of Denmark.

But is that a problem? Fields of golden wheat are very pretty, and the heath, though man-made, is one of my favourite places to be.

NATURE IS MANMADE, MAN IS NOT NATURE:

The problem with todays discourse on nature, is that we don't know what we want, and that's severely hindering any kind of progress.
The debate is so fucking shallow, whether it's mainstream liberals parroting the same "climate change is bad" shit or the retard fascists in this thread thinking that immigration somehow causes climate change.

What I want the most is just for people to think. What do we want? What does nature mean to me/us? Only by realising that nature is 100% a man-made concept, will we get anywhere.

>>13522355
Ellul fought in the French resistance, I think he'd dislike being associated with fascism

>>13523446
honey bee$ destroy native bees, but keep donating to those poor poor farmer bees :(((( before the world collapses!!!

>>13525138
>I think he'd dislike
nobody cares

>>13522383
>be Fascist Germany
>slaughter 6m+ pollutants
>be anti-capitalist Soviet Union
>drain an entire sea

>>13525138
He isn't associated with fascism. He is insightful and worth reading.

>>13522383
Left wing intellectualism is something else

>>13524811
I didn't say they were incompatible. I said you can be a fascist environmentalist if you want. But jamming it together is weird. You can like puppies and you can like math but writing a book about puppies and math is weird.

>>13525820
This.

bump

So I'm confused.

I was under the impression that
Eco-facism= harsh punishments and intolerance of people who don't regard the environment or ecological principles.( since fascism is based of off an "intolerance" of something and administering harsh punishments)

But people are telling me that it's pretty much national socialism with a stress on ecology.
Racist utopias with organic gardening though seems like it doesn't really need a delineation from fascism in particular, like racists like to garden I get it. But its a hobby.
I feel like the capitalists are co-opting Eco fascism, saying that you have to be racist if you hate people who pollute the earth.
Very sneaky, but again I only see Eco fascism on 4chan and reddit. And the rich fags and 1% have been donning online anonynimity and or using reddit rich fag karma up votes to push their agenda.

I find the former defintion much more attractive because
1) not really interested in being racist for some other faggots power trip
2) the biggest polluters in this world are multi national corporations and global interest in resource extraction and material refining. And this people deserve the rope most of all.

I put fourth that we should redifine eco fascism as the former because its more enticing to others. And racism has been a tool ever since the occupy movement to keep the heat of all the rich fags.

>>13527915
i saw a video where some imbeciles wearing white power symbols broke into a farm and dragged some cows out, allowing them to run into the woods. imagine being this much of a fucking retard. thinking a cow is better off roaming "freely" between semi-urban woodland and highways than on a local farm. this is what happens when you put a poltard on a steady diet of soÿ.

>>13527937
So, PETA-skinheads? Sounds like the alt-right minus the fun but with veganism instead.

>>13523907
Facism I think has more to do with stoicism.
It's was based off of a virtue ethic.

Unfortunately this movement got fucked up when they decided Hitler was the sole perpetrator of Facism.
It's all nice and good. But every time we have this experiment on running a society according to an "immutable virtue ethic" it gets fucked by the cult of personality.

People have hooribly bad focus and attention span.
And technology has been advancing to keep man more distracted. It is only spiritual advancements that have been able to help us with focus.
Some would argue drugs, but blind advancements create more problems than they solve.

It would be interesting to see a spirituality bent on distraction and technology bent on increasing focus.

>>13522914
>How exactly would being anti immigration as opposed to say, anti war, be better for the environment?
Being anti war is only in any way feasible if there actually is a major war going on and your country has any control over it.
Immigration directly threatens the environment "Europeans produce so much more pollution, CO2, whatever then Africans" is a very common lefty talking point, but the logical conclusion is to NOT create more Europeans through immigration.

>Additionally a militarized border would end up using a lot of oil to even function.
No, if there weren't lefties GOING OUT INTO THE MEDITERRANEAN TO PICK PEOPLE UP, there wouldn't be a need for any of that.
There are natural borders in place, doing NOTHING is far better than what is being done right now.

>most lefties I know
I do not know a SINGLE party with over 10% of votes which pushes for that, it seems to be a very fringe view.
Even the fucking GREEN PARTY is for immigration and not for any small scale communities.

> The consequences of a socialist society fix immigration issues and a globalized economy by nature of a self sustainable society.
I do not know what you are trying to say.
Immigration is only an issue because immigrants are coming by the millions.

> The warlike nature of fascism
Well, it doesn't seem to be any worse then the war like nature of liberalism I have to say and many of the reasons for wars have been the result of a more globalized economy.

>>13522529
Its not just about honeybees retard, its the pesticides that kill of masses of bugs all the time. Bees are just easily recognizable unlike some obscure local species of fly that is responsible for pollinating one species of orchid or some shit.

If you didnt understand this right away when you looked at the picture you are legitimately autistic and must need people to spell shit out for you all the time.

>>13522662
This picture is funny because Hitler already said he designed the swastika (and the party by design was founded upon the rivalry between national socialists and communists) to compete with the socialists of the time, and I bet the aspie that made this thought he made some huge discovery in their link, even though this has been known since the 30s.

Bump

>>13528043
good goy

>>13527915
>Eco-facism= harsh punishments and intolerance of people who don't regard the environment or ecological principles.( since fascism is based of off an "intolerance" of something and administering harsh punishments)

That is Eco-Fascism.