/lit/ - Literature

Marx wasn't a TRUE Marxist.

why the fuck are you retards reading a book meant for farmers of 19 century? if you want to learn about the fundamentals of Marxism read wage labor and capital or value, price and profit

>>13510424
this

>>13510424
>>13510431
>why are you reading the pamphlet that would tell the workers and revolutionaries the aims and goals of our movement

>>13510424
>why the fuck are you retards reading a book meant for farmers of 19 century?
Because it's all they can handle. Calling it a "book" is already charitable, it's like 30 short pages.

>>13510435
read whatever you want, but don't claim to have a solid understanding of marxism if you read only the manifesto like peterson did lmao
read actual theory, it's not that hard

>>13510419
Care to give the specific example instead of a vague greentext?

>>13510424
>>13510431
If he didn't meant the stuff he wrote, he shouldn't have wrote it. Was he retarded ? Is there any reason he should not be hold accountable for what he said ?

>>13510479
When butterfly claims the USSR is state capitalism and REAL communism wouldn't have any nationalized industries even though in the communist manifesto Marx advocates for the nationalization of the means of production.
>5. Centralisation of credit in the hands of the state, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly.
>6. Centralisation of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the State.
>7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the State; the bringing into cultivation of waste-lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.

Not even a Marxist but I know that the Manifesto is probably the worst of Marx's work if you're looking for theory

>>13510509
Nationalisation of the means of production can be a step towards communism, but is not sufficient for communism.
The demands you're quoting have already been outdated as early as in 1872:
>The practical application of the principles will depend, as the Manifesto itself states, everywhere and at all times, on the historical conditions for the time being existing, and, for that reason, no special stress is laid on the revolutionary measures proposed at the end of Section II. That passage would, in many respects, be very differently worded today.
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-manifesto/preface.htm

>>13510558
Nationalization was advocated for the transitional system.

>>>/pol/

what ever you do do not read the book (communist manifesto) that describes in the most basic terms what Marx means to accomplish, instead read all the other books by his supporters that describe what he (marx) meant, then you will really understand marx.

>>13510422
I don't know if it's ironic or not, but he said exactly this at one point.

>>13510435
the manifesto was literally aimed at the proles too dumb to understand the Marxist theory. It's Marxism for dummies

God bless freedom and capitalism.

>>13510844
Translation
>God bless freedom to enslave

>>13510844
>Thomas Sowell (/soʊl/; born June 30, 1930) is an American economist and social theorist who is currently a Senior Fellow at the Hoover Institution, Stanford University.
Using that logic neither did sowell

>>13510854
>>13510844
Hey hey, everyone. I think we should all agree: Thomas Sowell is just as stupid as Marx.

Him saying something smart doesn’t make his other inane observations more true :3

>>13510419
Is there any decent history of economics books? I'd like to get a broad understanding of the field before I decide to minor in it. And is communism the only commonly accepted alternative to infinite growth capitalism?

>>13510913
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmBHCiDd8ew&list=PLTMFx0t8kDzc72vtNWeTP05x6WYiDgEx7
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1863/theories-surplus-value/

>is communism the only commonly accepted alternative to infinite growth capitalism?
It's the only CONCEIVED one.

>>13510940
Thank you. I'll have to watch that later. Any books though? Or even websites (other than Wikipedia)? Anyhow, I find it very hard to believe that communism is the only conceived alternative

>>13510960
Yeah, sorry, I don't know of any other books strictly about history of economics besides Theories of Surplus Value.

>Anyhow, I find it very hard to believe that communism is the only conceived alternative
Well, it is. The only other alternatives are from people who don't understand what capitalism is (e.g. "it's no longer capitalism when the capitalists are the workers who") so they're ultimately false alternatives.
Either you accept some superficial definition of capitalism (meaning one which hinges upon accidental, not essential features of capitalism) or there's no conceivable alternative right now.

>>13510960
There are plenty of alternatives
>Distributism
>Binary economics
>Blairism

>>13511011
>some superficial definition of capitalism (meaning one which hinges upon accidental, not essential features of capitalism)
And we didn't even have to wait long for some examples of pseudo-alternatives that depend on such definitions: >>13511013

>>13511011
>>13511055
>>13511013
I'm not well versed in economic theory obviously and honestly don't find it that interesting, but seeing as I am interested in politics I feel it's appropriate to establish at least a broad understanding of economics as well. I'll be back later to see if any recommendations come up

>>13510419
Just because you post a Marx quote from a 15 page pamphlet doesn't mean you actually understand it.

>>13510509
Hey retard I think you missed this part of the manifesto.

>all instruments of production in the hands of the State, i.e., of the proletariat organised as the ruling class; and to increase the total productive forces as rapidly as possible.

When Marx is talking about state he is talking about the entire working class as whole over the bourgeoisie class. Every single member of the working class is in control of the state. It's not a state over the working class. It's a state of the working class.

>>13511011
>Well, it is
This guy is so full of shit. There are literally hundreds of other economic systems.
And talk about not understanding economics. How can capitalism be a market system if along with products that are traded, you include the labor to build the product (wage) and the production itself (stocks) and sell the money used as the intermediary of trade (interest)? What mental retardeness can make that a Market of Choice that values anything?

Capitalism is a Klepto-economy no different than theft. Value is equivocated in so many ways, their capitalist economic theory more resembles a game of Three Card Monte, or a Shell Game than it does a rational economy or any model with a set of consistent rules.

There is no constant or invariant conservation law throughout all of Capitalist Economics. They keep changing it every time you challenge them or they say, "Well it behaves as IF it were this (insert lies here)."

And this guy! This guy is such a shill! The only argument the exploiters have FOR capitalism is that it is NOT Communism, which THEREFORE means that Communism can be the ONLY other system they will allow to exist.

What an asshole...

>>13510435
Read a manifesto from literally any political party or group designed for the masses and come back and tell me that you have a firm grasp of what their movement entails.
Protip: you are unable to do this.