/lit/ - Literature

>>13505298
Fair enough OP, women shouldn't have last names either

>>13505298
>sane
Here's your reason

There are none. I mean, I see 15 year-olds wearing booty shorts, how is a 21 year-old healthy male supposed to react to that?

>>13505311

>>13505298
whats the issue with a hundred sexual encounters?

>>13505298
>when she reaches 15-16
i wouldnt wait that long, too horny and i dont see why would i wait
>Give me one good reason why any sane man would choose the second option over the first one if the law permitted it?
because our culture is shit and arranged marriages are seen as weird

>>13505298
Books about this sentiment? Other than the Koran

>>13505437
read houellebecq
>>13505419
to me, nothing provided the woman will settle down and start acting straight once we are together, but some men are bothered by that

>>13505419
>whats the issue with a hundred sexual encounters?
Oh gee well I don't know.

Maybe the abundant research that demonstrates that a woman even having 1 partner before marriage increases the chance of divorce by 50% and it only goes higher and higher with each subsequent partner. Or how about the research that shows the more sexual encounters a woman has with men, the harder it is for her biologically to bond with any man and even her own children.

Not the mention the plain fact that no man wants a woman who's a dirty whore.

Love

>>13505298
>"Youth is wasted on the young".
t. Loodweig Von Wittsteib

>>13505432
>no more arranged marriages
Literally the start of western decline

>>13505451
Post source Pls

>>13505459
well my grandparents marriages were arranged so i would say decline happened a bit earlier + my grandparents are not very moral or examplary people

>>13505309
Hard agree.

>>13505450
the fact that she chose me instead of the hundred other people shes had sex with is very flattering to me. shows that she truly loves me
>>13505451
the same is true with men who have had a lot of sexual partners tho.
>no man wants a woman whos a dirty whore
thats really cringe. are we still in the 1950's?

>>13505298
how is this fucking /lit/????????????? fuck off

>>13505491
>the fact that she chose me instead of the hundred other people shes had sex with is very flattering to me. shows that she truly loves me
i prefer traditional idea of morality and virtue, but im not bothered by body count or someones past since im not a very jealous person as long as she would get her shit together

>>13505461
https://ifstudies.org/blog/does-sexual-history-affect-marital-happiness
First link found on google. Now searching databases.
It is a Well known and inarguable phenomenon.

>>13505491
>the same is true with men who have had a lot of sexual partners tho
No, it's not.

That same research that said women with more partners are more likely to divorce? They said men's partner count doesn't affect their commitment at all.
>thats really cringe. are we still in the 1950's?
I fucking wish. If you don't care about the fact your woman has been with over half a dozen other men, then that's just indicative of the sorry state of the world. Where it's normal and expected for women to be promiscuous whores before marriage.

>>13505516
youre just jealous people fuck a lot and you don't lol.
go back to r9k

>>13505450
Will do, thanks
I wouldn't count on any loose woman actually settling down and acting straight in the long run, though

>>13505419
What is the issue with letting your gf fuck other guys as long as she still regularly has sex with you?

>>13505523
meh, people have the same nature, i dont think many of them are really bad, just lack perspective, i dont think woman having sex with a lot of people necessarily means shes a bad person or a bad partner, these statistics are averages which include a lot of dysfunctional couples, it depends a lot on what kind of person you are and what standards you set
>>13505522
how about you go back to 2xchromosomes friendo

>>13505451
Poor use of statistics bro. There's lower divorce rates for couples with less experienced women likely because they have no idea what a better relationship would look like. I'm sure a significant amount of them are compelled to stay married for cultural reasons as well, even if they stopped being intimate with each other.

This is silly and besides the point, if you want to have a happy, long-lasting relationship, you should find someone that:

1.) gets a long with you
2.) has compatible life goals with you

Literally everything else is secondary.

>>13505542
>There's lower divorce rates for couples with less experienced women likely because they have no idea what a better relationship would look like
thats not a statistic, thats just your random subjective assumption
>I'm sure a significant amount of them are compelled to stay married for cultural reasons as well, even if they stopped being intimate with each other.
no shit, what do you think that the moment sex stops being good you filed for divorce you utter retard

>>13505528
thats a completely different scenario lol

>>13505330
>its real

Informed consent. While there are niche cases in which this would be completely consensual and moral, the legalisation of this sort of system would inevitably lead to abuse. In general, a 12-year-old is not able to fully comprehend nor assess the ramifications of signing a marriage agreement or having sex. 12-year-olds are highly naive and susceptible to all sorts of manipulation. It's the same reason they're not allowed to drive or vote. And yes, there are some cases where the child is precocious and mature, and thus is able to do all these things, but we must talk about the rule, not the individual action.

Furthermore this seems like an inherently sexist idea from someone who's likely a virgin. Speaking as someone who has had sex with both virgins and non-virgins, I can assure you that there is little to no difference between them. In fact I would say I prefer non-virgins more because they know what they're doing, don't need to be coddled and treated gently, and don't bleed when you fuck them.

As for the sexism: why do you single out women like this? Why not a woman marrying a 12-year-old boy? Do you think women are just going to acquiesce to this without coming out in droves to protest? You'll probably cite history here, but the cultures in which this happened were highly patriarchal and heavyhanded (literally and figuratively) against women. I don't know about you, but I'm not happy with treating 50% of the population that way.

>>13505542
>likely because they have no idea what a better relationship would look like
The culture of shopping around for the best deal you can get, dumping the old model when something better comes your way, is one of the most disgusting and despicable practices ever conceived by this fucked up modern society. Imagine abandoning your mother because a nicer looking, funnier mother showed interest in you.

>>13505583
>Furthermore this seems like an inherently sexist idea from someone who's likely a virgin. Speaking as someone who has had sex with both virgins and non-virgins, I can assure you that there is little to no difference between them. In fact I would say I prefer non-virgins more because they know what they're doing, don't need to be coddled and treated gently, and don't bleed when you fuck them.
point o marriage is not sex, so this what you said is unrelated
>As for the sexism: why do you single out women like this?
because people who advocate for arranged marriages usually have in mind paradigm or traditional gender roles
>Why not a woman marrying a 12-year-old boy?
because thats not how society works
>Do you think women are just going to acquiesce to this without coming out in droves to protest?
they dont seem to be protesting in large amount of the world where thats happening
in fact sociological research shows that women are usually the ones which safeguard such systems
>I don't know about you, but I'm not happy with treating 50% of the population that way
well im not happy with being treated egalitarian way an i bet most of humanity agrees
what now?

>>13505583
very good post

>>13505516
>If you don't care about the fact your woman has been with over half a dozen other men, then that's just indicative of the sorry state of the world. Where it's normal and expected for women to be promiscuous whores before marriage.
This all day.

>>13505607
its not a good post because it misses the point
is not a bad post because its liberal, but because it doesnt answer the question posed and instead completely ignores op's perspective baffled that such a perspective and argument can even exist and instead insults and answers why in his ideology that is unacceptable

>>13505491
>the fact that she chose me instead of the hundred other people shes had sex with is very flattering to me. shows that she truly loves me
she's not yours, it's just your turn :3

>>13505548
>>I'm sure a significant amount of them are compelled to stay married for cultural reasons as well, even if they stopped being intimate with each other.
Do you disagree with the general presumption that less experienced women have lower or nonexistent expectations for a relationship? That's all I'm saying, it's not random, it's logically cogent.

It's self destructive to pursue having a long-lasting, happy, relationship from the angle that it can only be shared with an inexperience woman. She likely knows less about herself as a function of both age and experience and her lack of standards may allow a shitty relationship to persist for a long time instead of just end so you both can get to the next thing.

If you want statistics in all their easily misused and mistranslated glory, consider that millennial marriages are causing the divorce rate to plummet - specifically because people are getting together for good only after having been through a wealth of experiences, maturing, and being able to set a direction for their lives. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-09-25/millennials-are-causing-the-u-s-divorce-rate-to-plummet

>>13505595
Ah, I see. You have down autism. I sincerely apologise my friend. If I had known the nature of your affliction I wouldn't have bothered responding to your post. I wish you a good and prosperous life (relative, of course, to your mental retardation) and I hope you don't go out on a killing spree.

>>13505542
>because they have no idea what a better relationship would look like

This would mean women are not even conscious.

>>13505593
you literally can't compare a mother and a girlfriend/boyfriend you dumbdumb

>>13505593
based anon tell em

>>13505491
no m8 many of those guys would have dumped her not her dumping them. youre the best she can lock down there are almost certainly guys she preferred who just used her for sex for a bit

>>13505622
pleasure and happiness is fleeting. when i find the one i truly love, i know that it will likely not last forever, and thats okay. everyone should know this. it will make the breakup easier

>>13505641
>youre the best she can lock down
you see? i am the best.

>>13505623
>Do you disagree with the general presumption that less experienced women have lower or nonexistent expectations for a relationship?
i dont care about that presumption beacuse it is speculative and doesnt indicate anything, there could be a thousand reasons possibly including that, but even if that were the case it cannot be shown that it is a major indicator of anything
>It's self destructive to pursue having a long-lasting, happy, relationship from the angle that it can only be shared with an inexperience woman
i agree that looking for relationship with such a presumption is idiotic, however i still believe it would be ideal to enter a relationship with someone less sexually experienced
>She likely knows less about herself as a function of both age and experience and her lack of standards may allow a shitty relationship to persist for a long time instead of just end so you both can get to the next thing.
this part sounds incredibly fucked up
ever heard of monogamy?
>If you want statistics in all their easily misused and mistranslated glory
i dont really care about statistics, marriage of todays age and marriage of definition to which i ascribe it are unrelated concepts

>>13505628
next time perhaps consider his point even if its grossly incorrect instead of dismissing its possiblity apriori, this is no way to hold a conversation

>>13505568
You've stated the obvious. But it is the contrasting of these two scenarios where I hope to find your reason.

Answer honestly, would you care if your gf had sex with someone else? If so, why? Specifically?

>>13505535
I just Google the chromosomes thing and it's reddit? How do you know the names of individual Reddit boards?

>>13505451
Women with 0 sexual partners are likely in religions which don’t permit divorce. It’s correlation not causation.

>>13505673
how dont you know?
do you live under a rock

this isn't /lit/ related
as a secondary note, I've seen this argument a number of times and I don't understand where people get the idea that everyone married 12 year olds <1950. to quote from wiki
>In Yorkshire in the 14th and 15th centuries, the age range for most brides was between 18 and 22 years and the age of the grooms was similar; rural Yorkshire women tended to marry in their late teens to early twenties while their urban counterparts married in their early to middle twenties. In the 15th century, the average Italian bride was 18 and married a groom 10–12 years her senior. An unmarried Tuscan woman 21 years of age would be seen as past marriageable age, the benchmark for which was 19 years, and easily 97 percent of Florentine women were married by the age of 25 years while 21 years was the average age of a contemporary English bride.[15][16]
marrying at very young ages, at least for women, becomes necessary when the primary concern is survival, since they weren't expected to do much else.

>>13505583
>Speaking as someone who has had sex with both virgins and non-virgins, I can assure you that there is little to no difference between them. In fact I would say I prefer non-virgins more because they know what they're doing, don't need to be coddled and treated gently, and don't bleed when you fuck them.
You're a filthy degenerate. Cringe.

>>13505663
Your mistake is assuming that I want to have a reasoned debate with hateful virgins on the subject of women, especially on 4chan. I stopped reading his post when he appealed to "how society works" while himself advocating for a radical reorganisation of society.

>>13505682
>Women with 0 sexual partners are likely in religions which don’t permit divorce
there is only one such religion in the world and i dont rember its adherents being very faithful

>>13505593
It's disgusting because it plays upon your fears of inadequacy and death. By all means be rigorous in your search for a mate and be ready to dump someone who you were going with if they show that they might have a disposition towards this behavior. Once you found someone it can work long term with, you gotta make sure you treat them just as well.

That all said, you can do everything "right" and the relationship may still have to end because you grew apart or some other reason. This will happen no matter what woman you pick or who you are. When this happens you got to let go and move on.

>>13505694
Are you the same guy that always bitches about how Muslims don't let women slut it up in every single Islam thread? Go be a faggot somewhere else.

>>13505688
then why are you responding lol

>>13505686
Why are you pulling from the past 500 years of history when humans have been around for over 100,000 years and only discovered agriculture 12,000-15,000 years ago? There's far far more history of marrying young than the modern tradition of marrying a used up whore.

>>13505700
>That all said, you can do everything "right" and the relationship may still have to end because you grew apart or some other reason. This will happen no matter what woman you pick or who you are. When this happens you got to let go and move on
>when it gets hard just give up bro and like relax and each find another lol
burgerpunk 101

>>13505688
only person obsessed about radical reorganization of society is you
this is just an autistic discussion about society in a manner which wouldnt be acceptable outside 4chan
>Your mistake is assuming that I want to have a reasoned debate with hateful virgins on the subject of women
you totally dont which is why you wrote a whole wall of text and which is why you categorize and generalize everyone to avoid facing different opinions

>>13505705
It's fun.

>>13505702
i meant catholicism
islam permits divorce and its farily liberal about it
your ignorance and obsession about islam and poltards shows

>>13505685
I don't use Reddit and try to avoid threads started with Reddit posts as I assume they're all bait for low iq anons from /v/ or /pol/

>>13505700
Your mentality is disgusting, degenerate and utterly empty. You deserve the crusty old whore you'll end up with.

>>13505707
are you one of those "humans should revert back to hunterer gatherer systems" believers? lmao.

>>13505711
I can't tell which is the more conspicuous way to signal that you're underage: a) posting your passport with full name and underage birth-date or b) writing a post with as little thought and intelligence as what you just posted.

>>13505668
I would care because I'd be jealous, being in a monogamous relationship means we don't have sex with other people. What's your point?

>>13505750
weak reply

>>13505700
my parents have been together for 26 years (am 24), plenty of arguments, poorfag struggles, etc. but not once did they even contemplate divorce even though my mom is a stacy looks wise (dad is a manlet normie) and always has guys trying to talk to her in public. they are orthodox though not religious, but still follow accepted behavior passed down through the ages

My friend's sister is 12 and she always flirts with me. Should I begin the courtship?

>>13505654
Nice goalpost moving. To combat your ontological argument I'll say only this: My goal was to persuade someone who was looking for happiness and fulfillment in regard to their monogamous romantic relationships. If that doesn't describe you as a person I do not think we will have much left to share. I do hope for your flourishing in life nonetheless.

As an addendum because I don't think I made this clear: I see nothing wrong in entering a relationship with a less experience woman, I was just giving reasons why that relationship might fail internally but not show externally.

>>13505330
Yeah, I know women are stupid and/or lack common sense. How is it an argument for taking a virgin? They're even more fucked in the head than sluts.

>>13505763
Absolutely. Just no sex until marriage.

>>13505755

>>13505750
i am an autismo and dont even try to hide it,
you are the one trying to hide behind societal acceptance of certain ideas in order to not have to actually adress these issues
its just easier to call others dumb or virgins than actually facing merits of what they represent
>>13505727
i mean i dont like reddit or pol either but it sounds a bit stupid to avoid shit like that

>>13505763
gift her father a horse and a cow and ask to marry her

>>13505751
>being in a monogamous relationship means we don't have sex with other people
If that's all it means to you then you're already too far gone.

>>13505767
>How is it an argument for taking a virgin? They're even more fucked in the head than sluts.
roastie-banging cope kek

>>13505772
>it sounds a bit stupid to avoid Reddit bait threads

>>13505298
I don't want an inexperienced naive child slave for a wife. I want an adult person who actively and informedly chooses to stay with me.

>>13505759
Then they continue to make it work, and that's a good thing. Relationships are always compromise.

>>13505775
That's not all, but that's kind of the CENTRAL idea behind monogamy.

>>13505751
What is there to be jealous about? I have already stated that her sex with another man would not result in less sex for you. Why then would you feel jealous? Would you be jealous if I played your xbox while you were at work?

>>13505785
so why encourage "just give up and look elsewhere" when the relationship enters turmoil? why not struggle through it and remain committed to each other?

>>13505791
>comparing a wife to an xbox
b8

>>13505782
Doesn't matter what age a woman is, she's still going to be a naive child. So might as well get a young one.

>>13505764
>My goal was to persuade someone who was looking for happiness and fulfillment in regard to their monogamous romantic relationships
i was talking about marriage in context of op's post to which sex is unrelated, just like postmodern conception of relationships are unrelated
and from a general human standpoint, if your idea is to just leave the relationship as soon as it gets bad youre fucked up regardless of ideology
>If that doesn't describe you as a person I do not think we will have much left to share
we dont because i believe in more than basic materialism and thus to me happiness isnt the goal in life
>I do hope for your flourishing in life nonetheless
i wish you the same
>I was just giving reasons why that relationship might fail internally but not show externally
i guess as someone who is less sexually experienced and expects future parter to be the same you lost me with your general mentality and relationship expectations

>>13505775
there is such a thing as an open relationship, where the two people can be romantically involved, but can have sex with other people. sex isnt intrinsically an emotional or romantic action, so its not cheating. these relationships can work. a lot of people (like me) cannot be in these types of relationships because of jealousy, but i think they are the superior type of relationship.
now id like to ask you the same question you asked me. would you mind your gf having sex with other people?

>>13505794
I can make plenty more comparisons if you'd like. You still haven't answered my question. Why exactly would you be jealous, especially when her having sex with someone else would be unnoticeable to you?

>>13505781
yup, filtering or ignoring certain topics is stupid
they cant hurt you in any way and you can find a potential interesting conversation regardless

>>13505791
we are genetically hard-wired to feel jealousy towards our partners. it makes sense logically to not feel jealousy,but we do anyway

>>13505791
Not him, but people have limited emotional resources to give. If she's giving it to some other guy, that means that the relationship is no longer as intimate as it once was.

>>13505528
The argument is disingenuous. Your current romantic partner engaging in sexual activities with someone else is a problem because you exist and are available, whereas before you were not.

>>13505808
When you enter into a monogamous relationship you sign an unwritten contract which states that you will not have sex with anyone other than your partner. So if a person breaks that contract they are in the wrong. Why this condition? Well I'm personally fine with polygamy but if I had to put on the shoes of a monogamist I would say that sex is an intimate experience that reflects love and love is more special when it's only imparted to one person. It's quite egoistic in that sense.

>>13505799
And yet I still prefer someone who chooses to be with me out of reasons other than
>Financial dependence
>Inability to drive
>Fear of anything else
>Total ignorance of everything else
>Lack of options.
Etc.

>>13505807
>there is such a thing as an open relationship, where the two people can be romantically involved, but can have sex with other people
Those people should be stoned to death

>>13505831
>not just wanting a cumslave that can cook and take care of the house to breed and raise children with
lmao@u

>>13505782
>>13505831
you are probably more modern person, some people prefer more pronounced gender roles and such in their relationships

>>13505831
Hate to break it to you bud, but you will never meet a woman on planet earth who doesn't think at least 3 of those things are important factors in choosing a boyfriend. These are just unfortunate facts of life and you need to come to terms with it.

>>13505819
Good!

Now explain to me, how is this (illogical) jealousy any more justified than the jealousy someone might feel knowing their gf has completed her sexual exploration with many other men prior to you? How is your jealousy more justified than knowing that on your wedding day, you'll be kissing the same lips that have been wrapped around countless sweaty cocks?

>>13505807
>/lit/ has unironic cuckolds
Board has hit a new low.

>>13505844
Some people are dipshit chimps.

>>13505837
>not being able to accept people whose views differ from yours that don't affect you in any way whatsoever.
there's your problem buddy

>>13505849
ikr, all people who disagree with ego is a fucking retard

>>13505846
Jesus Christ you're a faggot. I bet you get off to the though of your gf sucking another man's dick.

>>13505827
>sex is an intimate experience that reflects love and love is more special when it's only imparted to one person. It's quite egoistic in that sense.
Agreed!

>>13505845
Get off 4chan for a month. I've been married 10 years, kiddo.

>>13505850
>how does functioning of society and well being of the collective affect you in any way lmao
>just let everyone do whatever they want
>indirect shmindirect consequences

>>13505853
You'll be the one kissing the lips of a girl who I shot my jizz all over. So in actuality, you're more inclined to be the faggot. Faggot.

>>13505859
you really believe your wife would look at you the same if you wasnt as masculine, didnt exhibit traits expected from a man and such

Buncha slack jawed faggots in this thread

>marry a roastie
>in this society (usa) she's probably taken at least 10 different dicks if not more (probably more)
>hang around her male friends with her
>she tells you who she's slept with before
>you know another man's cock has been inside your wife's mouth, pussy, and maybe asshole
>you may have to interact with this man
>he may even let you know himself and tell his friends too
>no matter how happy your relationship is and how many children you have you will always know that another man enjoyed your wife's holes and this fact will not go away until the end of history
sorry bros but I couldn't handle such a feeling, g'day

>>13505870
I don't date girls that ugly

>>13505846
see
>>13505822

>>13505847
admitting the fact that cuckolds exist, while making it clear that I am not a cuckold myself still makes me a cuckold? what bro?

>>13505887
let me add
>she kisses your children with those lips that touched RANDOM SWEATY COCK
>kisses you too
>makes food with the hands that jerked off many dicks
>tucks children in
>smiles at you as she stretches those dick sucking lips
OHNONONO

>>13505895
You said cuckoldry is the superior relationship. You may not be able to act on it, but you are in fact a mental cuckold.

>>13505867
how does two people having an open relationship indirectly affect you?

>>13505298
>not using the ancient auction method where the pretty girls' brideprice pays for the ugly girls' dowry as noted by Herodotus
This is unironically what is also wrong with IPOs today too

>>13505515
> On the speculative side is their notion that having multiple partners increases awareness of spousal alternatives. It’s evidence for this proposition that the divorce rate increases in regions with more single people; in other words, we’re always willing to consider alternatives to our current mate. By implication, our marriages suffer when we make more comparisons.

Very much in line with >>13505548's hypothesis.

>>13505877
That's not the same as being financially dependent on me, unable to drive herself, and totally inexperienced at everything but what I've allowed, as the girl in the OP would be. Reading comprehension kid.

>>13505801
You got me, I am a materialist with romantic daydreams. I do believe in sticking with a relationship, but I've also had my heart broken plenty times before and learned the hard fact of impermanence, or at least got an idea of it. I would be interested in how you took >>13505298 to not be explicitly about sex, and would be curious if you could mount a definition of marriage that:

1.) Doesn't involve sex
2.) Isn't disqualified when a partner has sex outside of the marriage

>>13505905
it affects the entirety of society and how it works, those are big and important social institutions and world doesnt function solely on the individual level

>>13505763
>>13505774
Don't do this. Gift him 5 goats and 5 sheep instead.

>>13505847
Polyamory is not the same as cuckoldry. The only way you would interpret it in such a way is if you have patriarchal views about relationships such as thinking the woman belongs to the man or is only useful as a symbol of his social status/manhood.

>>13505904
I'm not saying cuckoldry in the sense of having a guy have sex with your girl right in front of you.
I believe that sex can be a fun activity divorced from romantic feelings. Imagine being in a loving relationship with your wife, yet being able to have sex with other women. A lot of people who disagree with open relationships also cheat on their partners. The concept of cheating is eliminated, relationships last longer and are healthier.

>>13505929
You can't reason with chimp rage. Everything exists for his status.

>>13505929
its cuckoldry if the woman gets pregnant by another guy and you raise the kid. dating a single mother is essentially cuckoldry as well from an evolutionary perspective

>>13505917
society works horribly right nos. open relationships is a step in the right path to a better society

>>13505878
Mods delete this offtopic thread now, I can't handle it anymore.

>>13505827
In the Meaning Of Love by Vladimir Solovyov he actually argues the opposite, that an intimate sexual love is only possible by sacrificing egoism, and that it's the only real way for a human to end one's selfishness. I'm somewhat inclined to agree, because if we take this view for a moment polyamory would be a very childish love, where people seek different individuals that fulfill different needs much like a kid would go through a candy store and demand everything he likes. It's not the kind of relationship that would rid one of egoism but rather enforce a very narcisstic view of others. Then again I don't have much personal experience in the field, but I would recommend the book to anyone interested.

>>13505908
So how does that work? You sell off your pretty daughter and pay a guy to take your ugly one?

What if you have all ugly ones? Or all pretty ones? Did extended family cooperate like say you have a pretty daughter and your brother in law has an ugly one, so you sell yours off and give the money to your brother in law for the ugly ones dowry?

>>13505938
>Imagine being in a loving relationship with your wife, yet being able to have sex with other women
then you don't love her if you desire other women you dumb cumbrain

>>13505941
nope, men who cheat are giant faggots as well but keep on pushing your fetishes porntards

>>13505942
again, this isn't polyamory either. its called "raising another mans child" and "dating a single mother"

>>13505942
We have contraception now bud. Obviously people in open relationships aren't okay with their partner having someone else's baby without talking about it first and coming to an agreement. Why do you try to frame it in the worst way possible lmao? Be charitable, man!

>>13505686
>>13505707
Yep. It's not standard. Betrothal for certain classes and cultures may be common at that age though.

From Tacitus' Germania
20. In every home the children grow up, naked and dirty, to that strength of limb and size of body that excites our admiration. Every mother feeds her child at the breast and does not depute the task to maids and nurses. The master is not distinguished from the slave by any pampering in his upbringing. They grow up together among the same flocks and on the same ground, until maturity sets apart the free and the spirit of valour claims them as her own. The young men are slow to mate, and their virility therefore is not exhausted. Nor are maidens rushed into marriage. As old and full-grown as the men, they match their mates in age and strength, and the children reflect the might of their parents. The sons of sisters are as highly honoured by their uncles as by their own fathers. Some even regard this tie of blood as peculiarly close and sacred, and in taking hostages insist on it especially; they think that this gives them a firmer grip on affections and a wider hold on the family. However, a man’s heirs and successors are his own children, and there is no such thing as a will; where there are no children, the next to succeed are brothers and uncles, both paternal and maternal. The larger a man’s kin and the greater the number of his relations by marriage, the stronger his influence when he is old; childlessness has no reward.

>>13505737
He probably isn't, but I am.

>>13505949
Based.

>>13505515
>The current post extends this research by examining the relationship between premarital sex partners and marital happiness. >The obvious prediction for many IFS blog readers may well be that multiple premarital sex partners leads to unhappy marriages, but the relationship probably isn’t that clear-cut.
>Marital happiness and divorce aren’t always as intertwined as they might seem. A clarifying example is the family demography of the Great Depression.
>Pervasive financial hardship made marriages less happy, yet the divorce rate fell because divorce and single living seemed unaffordable.
>A high-conflict but intact family of origin increases the odds of having a disputatious marriage but not the likelihood of divorce. >All this research suggests that the effects of one’s premarital sexual biography on marital happiness may not closely follow the findings outlined in my previous post.

>>13505955
>Giant faggots.
Yeah, when my wife and I are able to communicate well enough to share a woman together and not feel insecure in our relationship, that sure is pretty gay.

>>13505955
>men who cheat
Nobody is talking about cheating. The situation is where both parties have agreed that it is okay to fuck other people.

>>13505967
>to share a woman together
yet you claim the anons in favor of monogamous relationships are egotistical and just want their sexual pleasure satisfied when you speak of sharing a woman like a piece of meat with your slut wife jesus christ man get it together

>>13505955
the desire is merely physical. you can love your GF but a lot of guys have told me that even if they love their Gfs they get bored of having sex with the same person all the time

>>13505945
>society works horribly right nos
"women are free to fuck 500 men before marriage with no downsides socially or otherwise, BUT IT'S THE GOD DAMN PATRIARCHY AND THEIR PESKY MONOGAMY RESPONSIBLE FOR DIVORCE RATES!"

>>13505515
>Women who’ve only slept with their spouses are, at 65%, most likely to report very happy marriages.
>Thereafter, there’s a decline that’s statistically-significant but modest in magnitude. The lowest odds of marital happiness, 52% in the baseline model, accord to women who’ve had six-to-10 lifetime sexual partners.
>Women who’ve had 11 or more lovers are a bit more likely to report happy marriages at 57 percent.

>>13505915
>hard fact of impermanence
its not a hard fact, its your subjective experience
or if we look at it that way might as well claim impermanence of every aspect of reality - theres a reason why we have social institutions, need for social stability and such

>...and would be curious if you could mount a definition of marriage that:
>1.)Doesn't involve sex
>2.)Isn't disqualified when a partner has sex outside of the marriage
no i didnt take it like that, sex and procreation are purposes of marriage
what i am saying is that you are lowering institution of marriage to the same level an axtramarital lovers couple may have in hedonistic way

>>13505969
he said "everything exists for his status" in response to a claim that said I believe women are just property and that's what I was responding to you delusional cumbrain can you infer anything

>>13505516
> As for women, men who report only one sexual partner in their lifetime are more likely to report very happy marriages.
> The benefits of one partner are slightly greater for men than for women: according to the baseline results, 71% of men with one partner are very happy in their relationship.
>This drops to 65% for men who report two or more sex partners.
>The happiness penalty for additional partners is modest, only a few percentage points.

>>13505945
sociological research doesnt seem to agree with that claim

>>13505984
men are also free to fuck 500 women with no repercussion (women do get shamed if they sleep around in most cultures, men almost never do).

>>13505989
Don't cry too hard pal. If you can wade through the tears and try again maybe you can form a coherently structured post.

>>13505993
>>13505986
"happiness" stats lol just
most people aren't going to tell you they're sad bucko

>>13505515
>This figure makes clear that the difference between having one and more than one, lifetime sex partner is most consequential in predicting marital quality.
> For men, there aren’t statistically significant differences in marital quality between men who have two partners and more than two.
> That is the trend for women too, with two exceptions: female respondents with four partners or 6-10 partners have significantly lower odds of very happy marriages compared to those with two partners.
> It’s not clear why these two groups of women defy the broader trend, but it should be noted that the percentage differences involved aren’t great.

>>13506001
>um listen sweaty tier posting
just go back already you cumbrains are insufferable

>>13505997
regardless, its such a small aspect of culture. if everyone is monogamous or polyamorous it doesnt matter in the grand scheme of things

Female hypergamy, anyone? Why doesn't anyone mention female hypergamy in these threads? The West is turning into a matriarchy, if we're not already at that point.

>>13505794
I am not saying don't put effort into a relationship and have made no mention of so-called "crises" which happen and can be overcome. I am saying that the absolutist sentiment of "there is only one person in this life that you can marry and be happy with" results in many people being actually unhappy (and is an excuse for inexperienced men to not put themselves out there because they're looking for or haven't let go of "the one").

On the other side of parental anecdotes: My parents had a long and for the most part happy marriage of 25 years. They got divorced after I was 13, my dad developed an auto-immune condition that forced him into an early retirement and I believe a combination of the uncertainty caused by this as well as increased friction between the two of them from having grown estranged over the years caused my mother to dissolve the marriage. I've been in many different mindsets about this over the past decade + of my life and I've settled on this:

1.) It seems scummy what my mom did but the relationship really wasn't working, she really needed to get a job herself and possibly find another man who could provide for her children, and she did both those things and my life growing up was a lot easier because of it.
2.) My dad seemed miserable about it and I really demonized him for a long time despite how little he deserved his circumstances. I came around but so did he. After being nearly dysfunctional for the rest of my secondary schooling he started to take care of his life in a way he never did because he married so young and left so much to my mom. He ended up reconnecting with the girl he dated in college and they'v been happily together for years, him living a comfy mostly retired life, and her in the final years of her career as a bit of breadwinning. They are happy together in a way that my mom and stepfather clearly aren't and it's because they seem to be on the same page about everything they want at this stage of life.


The fact is, sometimes divorce turns out for the better. I have not made the argument that it is the only option and I am disappointed that my argument has been interpreted as such. Whatever happened to the concept of charity?

>>13506014
one person being this or that doesnt matter
waht society accepts, what it encourages or bans, what it teaches to its youth is extremely imporatant and institutions like monogamy are necessary to provide for a decent background and social environment for future generations to grow up in
you as individual cannot expect to be able to do whatever you want because whatever you do has real consequence - directly or indiretly to everyone - you dont live on the moon

>>13505515
>In sum, the surprisingly large number of Americans reporting one lifetime sex partner have the happiest marriages.
>Past one partner, it doesn’t make as much of a difference. The overall disparity isn’t huge, but neither is it trivial.

> For a combined sample of men and women, spouses reporting only one lifetime sexual partner are 7% more likely to be happy than are those with other partners in their past.
>This is larger than the five-percentage-point difference associated with a four-year college degree, larger than the six-point difference that comes with attending religious services several times a month or more, and larger than the boost that comes with having an income above the national median.
>On the other hand, the one-partner difference is smaller than racial-ethnic disparities in marital happiness.
>Premarital sexual experience affects marital happiness, but perhaps the more important story in these data is that almost two-thirds (64%) of Americans are happy in their marriages.

>>13505949
I can't think of love as anything other than egoistic. A lot of people think that's weird because love often involves sacrifice and denying yourself for the other person but in this case I agree with pic related.

>>13506002
I'm using the very source >>13505451 posted. If his own sources aren't to be trusted then he has little ground to stand on.
Your use of youtube-tier vocabulary is embarrassing.

>>13506036
>They got divorced after I was 13, my dad developed an auto-immune condition that forced him into an early retirement and I believe a combination of the uncertainty caused by this as well as increased friction between the two of them from having grown estranged over the years caused my mother to dissolve the marriage.
so your mom let her whorish nature take over, told your father to beat it, and got a betabuxxer to raise someone else's kids? cope however you wish but that's brutal. luckily he found someone else too but if you don't see how that shit leads to dysfunctional society idk what to tell you. divorce should be punishable by death

>>13506042
would you rather John be in a polyamorous relationship or John to reduce his carbon footprint by eating less meat and biking to work?

>>13505950
You sell off a cohort of girls who are marriageable together at a marriage market. You start with the prettiest and let people outbid each other; when people stop bidding, you start asking how much you'd have to pay them to take her. You do it as a community: not sell off all ages of one family's daughters at once and hope there's a crowd for your family's personal marriage market, but sell off the marriage age ones from the region all at once at a communal marriage market.

>>13506061
>worrying about vocabulary on an imageboard
based reddit retard

>>13506070
how about realizing that marriage is a sham and relationships usually don't last forever? maybe it would be better if relationships lasted longer, but that is not the case and you cant do anything about it

cumbrains, the lot of you. get ahold of yourselves

>>13505987
Ok, what's the difference between a marriage and an extra-marital lover's couple to you? Mine would be:

-Marriage is more likely to be predicated on a religion
-Marriages are typically longer lasting that extra-marital coupling
-That said there are some serious and long-lasting extramarital couples, usually because the participants see marriage as a mostly religious thing

>>13506100
C O P E

>>13506085
i would rather john respect basic social mores and institutions
and for the state to seriously tackle climate issues instead of leaving token means for it to individuals which cannot possibly make any noticeable influence on climate policy, if we want to actually change cliamte we need serious legislation, not jimmy to get more eco friendly bulbs

>>13506085
>would you rather John be in a polyamorous relationship or John to reduce his carbon footprint by eating less meat and biking to work?
Neither, what the fuck kind of pussy faggot question is that.

>>13506112
Don't tell them that. They still think a random individual choosing paper bags over plastic bags will save the earth in the age of mass production.

>>13506070
>so your mom let her whorish nature take over, told your father to beat it, and got a betabuxxer to raise someone else's kids? cope however you wish but that's brutal. luckily he found someone else too but if you don't see how that shit leads to dysfunctional society idk what to tell you. divorce should be punishable by death
It doesn't matter if you use pretty or ugly words to describe it. The point is that I turned out the better for it, my dad turned out the better for it, and hopefully my mom turned out the better for it.

>>13506104
my view of marriage is imposed by my religion which says that marriage is permanent and indissoluble and to whose definition love is irrelevant

>>13506112
why cant social mores and institutions evolve? you think its better that they remain the same forever while every other aspect of humanity evolves? social mores always change. a group of people will always want things to remain the same because they are scared of change

>>13505437
Sperm wars

>>13506121
its similar with electric cars
for what the fuck are they of use if most of our energy sector is from environment unfriendly sources, do they believe electricity shoots out of cows ass?

Best thread on /lit/ today, ok?

>>13506129
you don't think your dad, mom, and you would have been better off had they stayed together? they fucking quit their marriage (with children) because of economic circumstances. nothing more pathetic than that. I'd feel like shit if I left someone because they weren't making much money

>>13506139
humans aren't evolving, we're devolving
read guenon + evola

>>13506129
>The point is that I turned out the better for it, my dad turned out the better for it, and hopefully my mom turned out the better for it.
Wrong.

What lessons did your mother teach you? Bail out when marriage gets hard. Jump on another cock when you should be preparing to be a grandmother within a decade. Abandon the man who was there for you when you needed him, but now when he needs you you're too selfish. And society at large gains one more point in the "it's ok to spit on the institution of marriage" camp, further encouraging broken homes and fucked up kids growing up to perpetuate the cancerous cycle of bailing out when life isn't a disney movie.

>>13506053
It could be a matter of semantics, but I don't think that's a very good contrast. Maybe it's about the level of individual cynicism or just a different worldview but as you see Solovyov says something similar but takes it in a different direction.
But if you consider your picture to encompass the egoism of intimate love, wouldn't that just make polyamory several times more so?

>>13506139
>why cant social mores and institutions evolve?
they can, and our understanding of ethics and society should evolve and improve, but the underlying reason why they exist or their use still remains
if point of certain social institution is to provide stabiltiy to society, to make sure that future generations are brought up succesfully neccessity for that doesnt just go away
>a group of people will always want things to remain the same because they are scared of change
panta rei, eh
im more of eleatic myself

>>13506151
i didn't mean evolve in the literal darwinian sense. regardless, some people consider our technological advancments as a pseudo-evolution.
society is changing and has always changed to keep up with technology and globalisation. Is maintaining the social mores we have today forever better for the advancement of humanity? no way to answer that. Will the mores evolve and change anyway? yes.

AOC in my state is 16.
logical course of action is to start grooming at 14, if not younger.

>>13506174
what advancement? why do you think we'll keep advancing? advancing towards what? where? what is "advancement?" embarrassing

>>13506145
>>13506153
Sorry guys, I don't agree. I can't speak much for how they felt at the time because I wasn't old enough to know the whole situation and further, I wasn't inside their heads. The point is that I actually have a larger family of people that were better able to provide for me, and who are themselves apparently happier than they would have been.

My parents were together for 25 years, this couldn't have been the first time they faced a problem, come on use your head, this was simply the point of no return. A terrible relationship perpetuated is its own cancerous cycle.

>>13506161
yes, institutions are there to provide stability to society. society in itself is drastically different then it was 50 or even 20 years ago, and holding on to the same social mores in this different society is destroying it.

>>13506183
humanity will continue improving on new technologies and making new ones. that is advancement. why and how would humans cease to advance?

>>13506201
it isnt holding to same social mores since that isnt possible, society as it advances adapts to newfound conditions, every society lives by rules of its time or it wouldnt be able to function

>>13506201
>and holding on to the same social mores in this different society is destroying it
You seem to be under the delusion that society only gets better over time and that modern society is something worth saving instead of nuking and going back 50 years.

>>13506208
you think one day scientists will be like "yep, we're done here. we wont research anymore"

>>13506201
>and holding on to the same social mores in this different society is destroying it.
No, the reason society is crumbling is because we're abandoning those past social mores. We have rampant casual sex, social media thottery, and all sorts of degeneracy on demand in today's society. Monogamy is on its way out, and most people aren't too concerned with being chaste. Your ideal cuckold society will transpire within this century, and you'll regret wishing for it if you live long enough.

>>13506219
>>13506208
no, they're going to run out of crucial resources :^)

>>13506214
"better" is very subjective. society advances forwards, thats it. i would prefer humanity to advance to an unknown, possibly beautiful or horrible future, than for it to remain like it is forever. it will advance regardless because of technological innovation. the only way to stop societal progress is to stop technological progress

>>13506214
Unfortunately whether you think society is getting better or worst it will keep advancing because that's just how people do. Things will continue to change, the fidget spinner generation will complain about the zozzler generation, and you'll continue to get more and more distraught. The only way out is to stop caring or believe that maybe people are on the whole a bit smarter than you give them credit for.

>>13506235
>it will advance regardless because of technological innovation
>the only way to stop societal progress is to stop technological progress
what makes you think it wont stop

>>13506227
society 50 years ago had a different set of problems. society in 50 years will have different one. life in the 60's wasnt as perfect as you think, and life now isnt as bad as you think

>>13506253
>life in the 60's wasnt as perfect as you think
never said or thought it was, muh 50s/60s is a boomer meme
>society 50 years ago had a different set of problems. society in 50 years will have different one
and? how does that negate what I said? we're talking about a specific problem
>and life now isnt as bad as you think
??????????

>>13506233
society will also cease to exist under that scenario
>>13506252
what makes you think it will stop? i dont see any possible scenario for it to stop, except for >>13506233 which will result in society also collapsing

>>13506270
these "problems" will no longer be problems in the future as societal norms, institutions and technology advances.