/lit/ - Literature

Undergrad degrees are useless. As useless as a JD is, it's better than just going for an undergrad alone.

don't go to law school it's a scam. do yourself a favor, listen to the Thinking LSAT podcast and potentially save your fucking life

>>13482687
why, what does it say? lawyer life is miserable?

>>13482687
Not nearly as big of a scam as undergraduate education is, which is what you need to do to get to any postgraduate education. At least I can file frivolous lawsuits with a JD.

>>13482687
Is listening to that podcast going to give me a salary?

if you want money just do criminal law/corporate law

>>13482477
Law school seems like such a meme. You have to be a very special kind of person to want to be a lawyer

>>13482706
>why, what does it say? lawyer life is miserable?
yes two former lawyers talk about how shit law was so they decided to teach the LSAT and do a podcast

>>13482747
>undergrad school is less of a scam than grad school
you've got to be fucking kidding me, you're paying well into a couple hundred thousand dollars for law school THAT DOES NOT EVEN TEACH YOU HOW TO PASS THE BAR. law school is basically an overpriced fucking liberal arts school for dumb bougie fucks like you

>>13482748
absolutely potentially a higher salary than a failed lawyer or scammed undergrad. if you don't even know about their podcast, you don't know a fucking thing about law school and are headed for a meat grinder. save. your. fucking. self. i cannot recommend their podcast enough

>>13483637
podcasts are decidedly lower middle brow new yorker-tier

>>13482687
>>13483637
>listen to this podcast
>writes like a moron
Midwit spotted. Disregard this man's advice.

>>13482477
Kant said that the divisions of the university should be fourfold and that first three should be strict and rigorous in following the rules and guidelines.
Any changes or alterations should be rare and met with the upmost scrutiny at the highest levels of governance. These first three departments were Theology, Medicine and Law. The last department he argued should be kept absolutely free without any authoritative guidelines in form or thought. This was the Philosophy department. I agree with him. As a lawyer you a civil servant, your studies must be dedicated to Law and the rules of law, making sure they are kept. Unfortunately, the money is where people can know the law in order to bend it for financial gain. If you can stick to the principles of Justice, you will become a great lawyer. If you are an opportunist, you will be deserving of nothing less than the scorn of all of society

>>13483637
You are a joke, and so are they. For one, you should not be taking out any loans for law school unless you are going to YHS. If you can't get a scholarship to law school and don't have the money already, it simply does not add up. YHS can only be considered "worth it" because they offer access to social circles money can't buy (recent college counseling scandal demonstrates this, in case you still believed otherwise). For another, school does not exist to pass tests. How can you still think this? A law school which just taught you how to pass the BAR would be worthless. The BAR itself doesn't even prepare you for the daily work of a lawyer. Your thought process around school is precisely why our education system is so dysfunctional. Advanced education exists in order to be educated, not as an expensive certification. If you can't understand how legal theory and case studies help you to argue new cases beyond the judicial precedent, then you have no business going to law school in the first place. Your post is so ridiculous, am almost inclined to think you are one of the people from the podcast trying to promote it. If law school was such a terrible waste of time and money, why would they be making a podcast to teach people how to take the test to get into law school? I guess ethics was one of the many classes they failed. But I guess no law school can teach you how to not be lazy.

>>13483884
this.
>>13483637
It's almost the same argument that people use against high schools.
"why is math/science/history/english class so hard? why aren't the tests exactly like the homework or classwork?"
It's so that you apply your god given higher thinking skills. You study things not because everything will be as base level as what you might be taught in class, but because you need to learn how to piece things together.

>law school
>doesn't teach you to pass the BAR
>doesn't teach you to practice law
>that'll be $150k minimum plus tip
>not a scam

i know there's lurkers smarter than the pseuds ITT convincing themselves law school is prestigious, but if you've seriously considered law school like i did, you would at least know about the Thinking LSAT podcast and know why they don't recommend it as easily as the fools ITT do. educate yourself so you don't play yourself. listening to a couple of episodes of these two dudes talking about the application process is the least you can do to just get an idea of what you're getting yourself into

>>13483884
>Lawyers failing ethics?

Not surprised

>>13482477
>thoughts on law
The rule of the powerful regardless of the input of the people. The law is a joke.
>philosophy of law
The justification of the strong intentionally controlling those with less power and denying the autonomous decision-making of the people and natural consequences of their actions within a social circle.
>jurisprudence
See the above.
>history of law
Synonymous with the history of oppression.
>the LSAT
A glorified IQ test.
>law school
A waste of time in the modern age.
>working as a lawyer?
All lawyers do is reference databases of laws and relate them to circumstances. AI already has replaced many functions of legal practice and it is only a matter of time before lawyer apps are more effective than living lawyers. AI already produces a major percentage of news articles online without comment by the public, I see no reason why it could not write a legal document. There are essentially two paths you can go down: either you become one of the few wealthy lawyers (this being subject to your social status before attaining the degree) or you will be one of the many without a job but with massive debt. The latter case is far more likely.

>>13484023
Baby philosophy at its finest

>>13483997
>implying that guy is a lawyer

>>13483637
>try to help them
>they reply with irrelevant generic shit ("podcasts are gay tho!!") or some rambling retard who knows nothing about law school but is trying to logically deduce the ethereal nature of law school (QED: go to law school)

don't worry, the rest of us who actually know what we're talking about appreciated your post.

>>13484023
it's like a mix between foucault and elon musk
hideous

>>13484044
holy samefag

>wanting to be a lawyer

>>13484031
>>13484049

Sorry, I forgot that I was talking to heavily indoctrinated brainlets. The methodology you practice will lead to no great end; your practice, your lifestyle, and your philosophy will necessarily produce only to a weak and subservient population dependent on inept systems and self-serving lawmen in the coming generations. I truly look down on you with pity, you untermensch, those of you immersed in slave morality, for you can neither recognize the chains that bind you nor can you comprehend the world that you will bring about. I will wait patiently to document the atrocities you bring about and to remind you that instead of a vapid and empty materialistic existence you could have chosen to live pragmatically -- that is, you could have chosen to be human beings, to live as is good for your species, to adhere to the things which most benefit homo sapiens, but alas! You have chosen for yourself a miserable and barren hilltop tower of gray stone over the Garden of Eden, or rather the choice has been made for you and you have accepted it. So I pity you.

>>13484110
>So I pity you

Thank you anon

>>13484110

>>13484110
you keep using these metaphors... i don't think you know what they mean

>>13484109
This.
>NEETs
>graduate school
>lawyer
It takes a special kind of retard to delude yourself this hard, but if you're determined to piss away your boomer parents' money, bury yourself in insurmountable debt, and choose a career where you regularly work 60+ hours a week, I doubt the law school advisers or debt collectors will try to stop you.

>>13484110

>>13484110
>I read Nietzsche
>I am lawyer
>I am great great
>You, not great
>You suck

Mfw

>>13484110
>but alas!

>>13484110

>>13484115

You're welcome, my industrious and humble fellow.

>>13484118
>>13484125
>>13484154
>>13484164
>>13484174

You have conditioned yourself into learned helplessness and you believe it to be a condition suffered by all who live. Fret not, children, for your fears are unwarranted. We do not need to bend the knee to men in suits (whether they be blue or black) in order to live in the world which was promised to us; we need only set aside the irrational acts of idol-worship the powerful demand from each of us. Do not respect the law; do not respect lawyers; do not respect police; do not respect judges. These people will only serve to harm you for their own benefit whether you have committed unethical actions or not. In fact, these men of the law serve no function other than to harass your neighbors, family, and friends into complacency and subservience to the state. You owe no allegiance to them; cast them aside with your chains and do what is necessary. Automate systems of justice in order to minimize human error and greed, yes, but cast aside all laws which contradict that which is beneficial to homo sapiens. It is your duty.

>glorifying the law in a world with Epstein and capitalist imperialist interventions

JUST

>>13484110
LMAO. This is the prime example of the new-fag that read an article or two on Nietzsche and then BELIEVE they are above everyone. You're a sheep that glorifies a dead philosopher. Besides, if you bothered reading Nietzsche you would know he hates "pity" for it belongs to the life denying, depressing doctrine of Christianity, which is slave morality in its purest sense...

>>13484110
completely BASED

>>13482477
Being a good lawyer is not about intelligence, it's about vocation. You need to have a certain type of personality AND enjoy the work and lifestyle of a lawyer in order to succeed. I went to law school and guys I knew who passed each course by the skin of their teeth are now accomplished lawyers; the opposite is also true. Many colleagues of mine, students with only stellar grades, fell apart at or shortly after their internships, being unable to deal with the pressure / clients / lawyer colleagues / getting new clients.

You will also have to be married to your job if you want to make it as a partner or have a successful career on your own. My general advice is: don't do it, unless you're positive you'll love the job.

>>13484224
Well? Develop your philosophy mate. What is beneficial to man? How do you know this? What is to be done about the state? Why must we automate, why not get rid of justice and systems all together? Duty? on what grounds, to who (not you, I'm certain of that...), and more importantly WHY?
To me you seem like an incomplete, mediocre and derivative 'philosopher'. Read more.

>>13484224
>William James

>>13484224
I respect the Law and love the police nigger

>>13483637
Undergrad is the bigger scam
>not enough living expense amount to live on if you don't have parent plus bullshit
>super costly
>most majors in 2019 will struggle unless you have connections or went to a "top school", everyone has one
If you struggle after undergrad. You are screwed for the rest of your life. I would suggest someone to go into trucking than undergrad and nothing else. Seriously. It pays better starting than most undergrad majors.

I take the bar in 2 weeks. AMA.
These threads are the only ones I can ever tell when people are larping.

>>13484438
Why'd you do it? How good are your connections?

I went to HYS and loved it. It's honestly what my undergrad humanities education should have been. Interesting how the focus of new scholarship is basically dictated to a large degree by the youngest cohort (law review students) as opposed to older peers in other disciplines. Also interesting how many natural law scholars are still out there and relevant.

>>13484468
>>13484438
For someone in their undergrad right now who has little to no understanding of what law entails, are there any books I should read on it to see if it's something I'd be interested in?

>>13484390
>What is beneficial to man?
That which is beneficial to man is that which he has adapted to over the course of his evolution. Long-distance running, for example, is an action which is beneficial to your health. Consuming microwave meals, for example, is not beneficial to your health. Your body has not adapted to microwave meals over hundreds or thousands of generations of evolution. Your body also has not adapted to a desperate, lonesome, pitiful existence as a wageslave; likewise, it has not adapted to put your hands up and remain silent when commanded to do so. The whole justice system is inept due to the functions of the human animal's mind; punishment, in fact, is not a strong reinforcer of behaviors nor is it an effective deterrent. We know that to be a fact through the research done by behavioral scientists. Punitive justice, therefore, is an irrational and unscientific method of modifying or correcting behavior among people within a population.
In short, that which is beneficial to man is that which we can verify through the scientific to be beneficial to the health (both physical and mental) of any given human being.
>How do you know this?
What is beneficial can only be known through rigorous scientific research in a laboratory setting using human beings as subjects. No amount of folk psychology or common sense can provide information in the same way.
>What is to be done about the state?
A widespread educational campaign is necessary to make sure that the population knows what is beneficial to human beings in the same way that they know 1+1=2 -- and with the same efficiency of memorization. The state will appear then to be so evil and wretched that it will either be overthrown entirely or it will be reformed into a system which benefits human beings (and does not serve as a detriment or limiting force).
>Why must we automate?
Because some will still commit atrocities, so a system which deals with real problems swiftly will always be necessary. However, it is a system best served by removing the factors of human error and personal gain; many outcomes in the justice system are unjust due to issues of personal gain and human error, and those can be done away with. People found guilty of crimes should be re-educated and conditioned such that their behaviors are acceptable in society (that is, the behaviors are not to the detriment of those around that person).
>Duty? On what grounds? Why?
What is in the best interest of human beings is knowable. We have discovered the best conditions for many animals based on their evolution. Because a person is benefitted by being an accepted member of society, it is only equivalent exchange to expect the relatiosnhip to be symbiotic rather than parasitic.

>>13484503
Go read all the Supreme Court cases that came out.
>>13484449
Used to work at a law firm and I was tired of the nonlawyer coworkers and lack of upward mobility. If those fuckers could do it, I could too.

>>13484438
Good luck, which bar are you taking?

>>13484503
Don't bother reading anything. Just be aware of your goals and take a leap of faith. I highly recommend taking a few years off after college and working a job, any job, in a big city.

>>13482477

There is no such thing as the rule of law. It is a false jewish concept that people have been tricked into believing for centuries.

>>13484720
>working a job, any job, in a big city
With my history degree that'll be tough to do, but thanks for the advice

>>13484803
I earned 38K in NYC paying 1200 rent. You can do it too.

>>13484813
What was the job?

>>13484720
Texas.

don't

>>13484503
>For someone in their undergrad right now who has little to no understanding of what law entails, are there any books I should read on it to see if it's something I'd be interested in?

seconding the recommendations for the thinking lsat podcast. the show redpilled me on the naive ideas i had about lawyers and law school. nate is a commie but ben is /ourguy/

>>13484110
based

>>13484110

>>13484224
woah buddy, what have you been reading? No seriously, I wanna read what you're reading.

>>13482477
this thread is unironically proof /lit/ has a low IQ contrary to popular belief

>>13484513
>What is beneficial can only be known through rigorous scientific research in a laboratory setting using human beings as subjects

you lost me...
>thinking pure empiricism is what's good for man

This is a train wreck of a thread. If you can get into a t14 law school, and actually enjoy analyzing the structure of policy/case law/etc and truly feel like you can find something within the SUBSTANTIALLY BROAD field that is the legal profession, go for it, and don't let the retards with their unsubstantiated claims sway you. It's hard, very tedious work, and you have to have the will for it. If you don't, don't bother putting yourself through agony. If you do, strive onward.

>>13482477
A perfect profession for second-rate minds.

>>13485215
What's your profession?

>>13485222
Well I'm a doctor, of course

>>13484735
Sure, like morals.

>>13482477
Nope. It's not like Ally McBeal or Suits.
>>13483580
A fucking alienated cunt. Those who like this the most are Jews, depressed roasties, Gays, and assholes.

The more sane you are, the least efficient you will be at law school.

Also, law, is a free-mason and jew nest.

This thread fucking sucks. Never realized how true the summer meme was until i took several mos off and can now directly compare feb with july

>>13482477
I’m a lawyer. Law school was the biggest mistake I made in my life, and I’ve made plenty. When I’m dying it will be my biggest life regret.
Also, be warned that if you don’t like it, there is no escape. No field will take you outside of law. Once you’re in, you’re in.

You guys are idealizing the idea of law instead of seeing it as a flawed concept and moving on with your thoughts where you will eventually find an opinion about it that is not the result of mental diarrhea.

>>13482477
>there was a society of men among us, bred up from their youth in the art of proving, by words multiplied for the purpose, that white is black, and black is white, according as they are paid. To this society all the rest of the people are slaves. For example, if my neighbour has a mind to my cow, he has a lawyer to prove that he ought to have my cow from me. I must then hire another to defend my right, it being against all rules of law that any man should be allowed to speak for himself. Now, in this case, I, who am the right owner, lie under two great disadvantages: first, my lawyer, being practised almost from his cradle in defending falsehood, is quite out of his element when he would be an advocate for justice, which is an unnatural office he always attempts with great awkwardness, if not with ill-will. The second disadvantage is, that my lawyer must proceed with great caution, or else he will be reprimanded by the judges, and abhorred by his brethren, as one that would lessen the practice of the law. And therefore I have but two methods to preserve my cow. The first is, to gain over my adversary’s lawyer with a double fee, who will then betray his client by insinuating that he hath justice on his side. The second way is for my lawyer to make my cause appear as unjust as he can, by allowing the cow to belong to my adversary: and this, if it be skilfully done, will certainly bespeak the favour of the bench. Now your honour is to know, that these judges are persons appointed to decide all controversies of property, as well as for the trial of criminals, and picked out from the most dexterous lawyers, who are grown old or lazy; and having been biassed all their lives against truth and equity, lie under such a fatal necessity of favouring fraud, perjury, and oppression, that I have known some of them refuse a large bribe from the side where justice lay, rather than injure the faculty, by doing any thing unbecoming their nature or their office.

>>13487616
>It is a maxim among these lawyers that whatever has been done before, may legally be done again: and therefore they take special care to record all the decisions formerly made against common justice, and the general reason of mankind. These, under the name of precedents, they produce as authorities to justify the most iniquitous opinions; and the judges never fail of directing accordingly.
“In pleading, they studiously avoid entering into the merits of the cause; but are loud, violent, and tedious, in dwelling upon all circumstances which are not to the purpose. For instance, in the case already mentioned; they never desire to know what claim or title my adversary has to my cow; but whether the said cow were red or black; her horns long or short; whether the field I graze her in be round or square; whether she was milked at home or abroad; what diseases she is subject to, and the like; after which they consult precedents, adjourn the cause from time to time, and in ten, twenty, or thirty years, come to an issue.
“It is likewise to be observed, that this society has a peculiar cant and jargon of their own, that no other mortal can understand, and wherein all their laws are written, which they take special care to multiply; whereby they have wholly confounded the very essence of truth and falsehood, of right and wrong; so that it will take thirty years to decide, whether the field left me by my ancestors for six generations belongs to me, or to a stranger three hundred miles off.

>>13487621
>Here my master interposing, said, “it was a pity, that creatures endowed with such prodigious abilities of mind, as these lawyers, by the description I gave of them, must certainly be, were not rather encouraged to be instructors of others in wisdom and knowledge.” In answer to which I assured his honour, “that in all points out of their own trade, they were usually the most ignorant and stupid generation among us, the most despicable in common conversation, avowed enemies to all knowledge and learning, and equally disposed to pervert the general reason of mankind in every other subject of discourse as in that of their own profession.”

>>13484031
ABSOLUTELY BASED AND REDPILLED

>>13487616
>>13487621
>>13487630
Based Jonathan Swift

I love studying law. I didn't enter law school with any false expectations or misconceptions, so I guess that's why I'm content with it? Also, I'm doing well with my grades. The competitive nature is certainly engaging.

Mill's knock off is okay too.

>>13487616
>>13487621
>>13487630
Go back to your village, peasant. Keep up with the times and you wouldn't have such a bleak view of law.

>>13487654
Not a counterargument. You must be a pretty good lawyer!

>>13487672
yours was never an argument, dumb shit.

>>13487674
Yikes. Looks like your reading comprehension is poor as well.
Your honor, I’d like to file a motion to relieve myself of this incompetent counsel!

>>13487686
Who hurt you?

>>13487686
Motion to withdraw denied, counselor. No one else would represent this man otherwise and we are too late in the case for such dramatic change. Appointing new counsel would cause far too much strain on judicial resources.

>>13487686
i wonder what compels a kid to get on this board to go on a tirade about his disdain with law.

>>13487697
A lawyer fucked his father in the ass.

>>13487690
The legal profession. See, I’m a lawyer. I’ve done it all. Biglaw, public interest, politics. Once you realize lawyers (especially the wealthy ones) are the greatest impediment to true justice in the world, you’ll grow angry (if you still have a soul).

>>13487696
Shame, your honor. I’d prefer to go pro se, as this man can neither read nor write nor think, and I believe this results in great prejudice to me.

>>13487721
And let me know if you’d like examples. I have a Rolodex of injustices (we/I committed as a matter of course at our firm, all completely legal and in fact encourages) perpetuated on plaintiffs who, on the merits, deserved full restitution and punitive damages for grave injustices committed by our clients.

>>13487747
No, I’d rather your bar prep tips. I’m so fucking exhausted and feel so behind. I already know how fucked the legal system is. Everyone is a god damn indoctrinated mercenary.

>>13487755
Sure thing. Are you doing Barbri?

>>13487767
Yeah, not the best decision I've ever made, but I'm already this far, right?
Doesn't feel like I remember anything and I'm spread too thin to really focus on knowing anything.

>>13482477
>thoughts on law
euro law is best, stricture wise. everything is written in an accessible language and if it has some strange words there is usually an explanation present. most of the artificials are self contained and you don't have to cross reference 3 codexes + law from 1983.
>>13482563
What accesses does a masters give you that undergrad wont? unless you plan on teaching or reaching for some elite firm, there is no reason to go for more. save time and get ready for your bar.
>>13483637
>shit law
is the law shit or are the people shit? all the lawyers I know say the play is fine, the stingy customers who treat you worse than a retail boy are the problem. They want high quality service but don't want to pay for it but get pissed when they get the basic package

>>13482477
>Not calling philosophy of law jurisprudence
What the fuck are you doing mate

>>13487813
Philosophy of law and jurisprudence are different things though.

>>13484367
This is very true. There is also the saturation of the market, if you live in a tiny city then you must know they don't need 8000 lawyers. There are no off days or vacations, be ready for clients to call on xmas.

>>13487799
Barbri is good enough (I did it too). This personally is what worked for me (I passed NY and NJ):
-Limiting time on essay prep (memorize rules and just understand how IRAC / CRAC work)
-Supplementing with Critical Pass flash cards (when you’re pooping, during commercials, etc).
-Constant, undying commitment to the MBE
-Exercise and take a day long study break now and again, to let stuff sink in. This part is crucial.
Good luck anon. It’s not too bad.

>>13487839
Thanks man. That's kinda what I've been doing. Good to know. <3

>>13484367
>personality
What type of personality does a lawyer need? Outgoing? Confident? Well-spoken? Unscrupulous?

>>13487899
Well you need to first be a salesmen to get clients in.
Then you need to be an empathetic listener to clients when they talk to you about the case
Then you need to be a critical interviewer, extracting information from the client they wouldn't otherwise give.
Then you need to be computer literate to get discovery from the opposing party.
You need to be a proper manager for your clerks, investigators, and secretaries.
Then you need to be a clear and concise writer with quality research skills for all the briefs and motions you file.
You need to be good at office politics when dealing with partners and associates.
You need to be humble in front of a judge.
Adversarial, yet cordial in front of opposing counsel.
Captivating and informative to a jury.
Sweet and romantic to the court clerks.
Technical and assertive to the appellate judge.
There are many faces to a lawyer, reading case law is only one of them.

Please tell me law schools at least guarantee you an apprenticeship at a local practice or legal clinic or maybe a corporate firm? If they don't prep you for the state BAR and don't hook you up with an internship, then what the fuck are you doing for three years at $50k tuition per year??

>>13487949
It's a boys club. First you gotta have a bachelors. Then you gotta get decent LSAT. Then you gotta get in. Then you gotta finance it. Then you gotta pass 3 years of the shit. Then you gotta pass the ethics test. Then you gotta pass the character and fitness background check. Then you gotta pass the bar. Then you gotta register with the district courts to practice. Then you gotta find a job to even learn how to do it.
The point is a constant stream of requirements to stop people from doing it.
Also most schools have a legal clinic you can work at as well as a career services place to help you find work and internships.

>>13487935
>Well you need to first be a salesmen to get clients in.
this sums it up. if you don't like the walmart dancers, you won't like being a lawyer. you're billing at hundreds to thousands of dollars an hour. just imagine how much more country club reptiles are going to demand from you than walmart does from their monkeys. lawyers are essentially ultimate wage cucks.

i work in the court mail room and in my experience, the only lawyers with any moral compass or human dignity left are public defenders. coincidentally, they're also the lowest paid lawyers and the most in law school debt. child support department attorneys are okay too but if you're an incel, you probably think they're the manifestation of evil.

>>13487969
>$50k per year doesn't even buy you an internship for work experience

That is all I needed to know.

>>13487935
Fuck I'm way too much of an introverted virgin loser to do any of these things. Guess I'll just learn a trade.

>>13486286

"Morals" have a certain universal character. "Law" is that specifically kike-invented falsehood.

>>13487969
So basically it's just a huge ponzi scheme invented by lawyers so they can justify charging their clients insane prices? Why don't plumbers do this also?

>>13487969
Lawyer here. This is 100% correct. Not to mention nearly another $1k a year for the rest of your career for state required “continuing education” courses (in which everyone sleeps or does work)

>>13488176
Yes. It is. Plumbers have certification processes, regulatory agencies, and unions in some states to force the same kinda thing. Just depends on how much money the plumbers in your state spent on lobbying.
>>13488179
Oh yeah, I forgot CLE's. The after parties are great though.

>>13488234
Sure, but any 100IQ halfwit can get a plumber's apprenticeship and easily become a plumber. There's no plumber school, no Master's degree in plumbing. Probably why they don't charge as much as lawyers.

Could someone weigh in on whether studying law is a good route to go for opening a business? I imagine lawyers will be acquainted with the technicalities of starting up and operating a business.

>>13488234
I have never been invited to a CLE after party.

>>13488256
A masters degree in plumbing would be tight.
>>13488259
No. That's stupid. Businesses hire lawyers to do the lawyer'y part of business. You should go to school for business to do business while doing business on the side.
>>13488274
Well then you should start one. Why not make new friends and mingle if you have to be there anyway?

>>13488331
>You should go to school for business to do business while doing business on the side.
Risky though. If I don't end up becoming a successful businessman I'll be stuck with a useless degree.

>>13488176
don't know who you paid and how much. Generally lawyers get paid less than 1 months good salary and have to baby the client for minimum of 6 months and up to several years.
you are correct about there being lots of hoops to jump.
>>13487949
It does not. I had to learn things for the bar that were never covered in law school. got a shit internship and am working on building a client list. said fuck it, to it months ago and now Im looking for a job in jurisprudence. I wanted to to "easy" jobs but these days even cleaning toilets requires knowledge of chemicals,etc. plus my boss and I had the same last name(we are not related and the firm is named after him) so no one takes my work exp seriously.

>>13488064
>dating a sweet guy who is in law school
>is too good for this world tier naive and innocent
>doesn't know i fetishize moral degradation and corruption
this is going to be amazing. i want to watch him slowly break down and became disillusioned, angry, and bitter, and take all of it out on my unsuspecting cervix pounding me against the wall as stress relief.

i want to lick the despair straight out of his cock and help him get away with murdering whores he's accidentally impregnated

>>13488338
That should be part of your cost benefit analysis, but if you aren't ready to take the leap yet, what's stopping you from developing a side business while you wage slave away? One of the benefits of going to school is having the time to grow your skills outside of school with a huge network of educators and other people who can help you develop whatever it is you want to do. Sure there's debt and time involved, but if you are wagecucking it already, having a degree in anything will look good when you level up to wagecuck 2.0 office space edition.
>>13488358
>plus my boss and I had the same last name(we are not related and the firm is named after him) so no one takes my work exp seriously.
oof

>>13488368
He's a lucky man.


But seriously it's difficult to get through relationships in law school. They either fall apart (like mine did) or the couples were already engaged/married tier. Just make sure he has food, pussy, and nice fountain pens when he comes home.

>>13488368
>inb4 he converts you to christianity

PROTIP: If you're not the type of person to enjoy parties or networking events, a lawyer is the last thing you want to be.

Anyone who studies American law ends up a pleb eventually. It’s a good career if you can make it, but it will ultimately render you shallow.

>>13488374
>what's stopping you from developing a side business while you wage slave away
I've been thinking about it. Mainly property. Seems scary to take on so much debt though.

>>13488429
Why not do something that doesn't require any capital? Write smut/romance/scifi on amazon. Photography. Webdevleopment. Whatever. A skill you have you can monetize. What part of your soul can you sell, then learn how to sell it without high investment.

>>13488442
>Write smut/romance/scifi on amazon.
I already do that. Started not long ago actually. Only had a couple sales. Not sure how lucrative it actually is in the long term.

>>13488450
I wrote 3 stories last month and then got distracted studying for the bar. I just checked it today and I made 2 sales and got about 100 page views since. And that's without continuous posting. Just keep pumping it out bruh. It's a long term investment and every new story that links back to your past stories bumps sales. Keep reading and researching broski.

>>13488402
get thee behind me
>>13488368
sounds fun but make sure to help him avoid drugs and alcoholism so the punches don't come your way.

>>13488387
>But seriously it's difficult to get through relationships in law school. They either fall apart (like mine did) or the couples were already engaged/married tier.
This. I did not even date because I was giving all my time and money to the school, some of my mates got married before we even finished some just became housewives.

>>13488502
>get thee behind me
With pleasure ;)

>>13488507
>some just became housewives.
the thinking girl's neetdom.
>>13488387
i'm low maintenance and we live closeby. he can have all the pussy his dick can handle.

>>13488551
Getting laid isn't the problem. Its the isolation, stress, and exhaustion. Ideally you're a housewife that's smart enough to keep up with what he's learning to nod along to his rants. I never got that. After she left I was so alone, no matter how many friends or family tried to help.

>>13488573
>isolation, stress, and exhaustion.
he can take a nap on my tiddies while i watch his slow transformation into a jackass in a suit

>>13488616
Good girl.

>>13482477
I was planning on law school for years during my undergrad, but now that I'm a senior I have changed my mind.
It's not worth it. Unless you go t14 it's not gonna be worth it, even if you do(or don't) the amount of debt isn't worth it. The hours aren't worth it. Unless you do biglaw the pay isn't worth it. The stress isn't worth it.
I even studied for the LSAT for months, took a prep course and had a date for the LSAT test and decided not to do it. Honestly, deciding to not go to law school has been liberating and I'm not stressed and excited about exploring other options

tl;dr: t14 or bust but you'll still hate your life even if you do

Are there any actual lawyers itt who enjoy practicing law? How would I know if law will make me suicidal?

>>13488422
This sums it up.
I want to add there's a wide spectrum of salary you can make as a lawyer. The bottom tier obviously sucks and can never pay off their loans. Middle tier is okay-ish, good if you actually enjoy the job. High tier salary (top 20%, 150k+) is always corporate law and other soul-sucking jobs that take over your life. The only way I could recommend that path is if
1. you know you're in the top quarter of lawyers
2. You have self control and drive to make a lot of money and save it/invest it
3. You want to do that and retire after ~15-20 years of work.
Otherwise you're selling your soul for material shit. Spending 100-140k a year isnt that fun if you have to work 60 hours a week to make it. It amounts to coming home late to a big empty house, driving a nice car in traffic everyday, and taking a couple weeklong 10k ski or whatever vacations a year. Will that stuff really destress you enough to "like" doing your job?

>>13488711
>tl;dr: didn't actually ever want to be a lawyer

>>13488753
I did. I was 1000+ in with prep books, prep course, CAS fees and LSAT fees. I had been working towards it for 3 years.
Everyone and everything said not to do it and I always said that I'd be an exception, that it's not for some but it is for me.
Then I woke up and realized it's not for me

>>13482477
laws aren't real, they're all made up man, dare I say mere spooks?

>>13488772
If you really wanted to be a lawyer you would have done it. It doesn’t matter how good your LSAT was if you don’t apply and get in. Good for you finding out you were lying to yourself and being able to move on, but if you continue to believe it was your dream then you have to face the fact that you are weak willed and prone to making up excuses for things that are too difficult. It’s okay to not be the man in the arena, but you have to know you aren’t him.

>>13488790
>t. miserable lawyer making 3k a month student loan payments on his 70k salary

>>13487599
Listen to this guy kid.
If you don't know exactly what to do, and want to possibly earn good money, try business school. Way less boring, more dynamic, and more potential and money.

>>13488790
>but if you continue to believe it was your dream then you have to face the fact that you are weak willed and prone to making up excuses for things that are too difficult.
How can it be a dream to be a lawyer?
Laws are the bars of the cage. Most lawyers do it for money or are crazy.

>>13488896
Yeah, I third this. Don’t know a single happy lawyer in my firm of 500+ attorney. Every Christmas party numerous drunk partners corner me and tell me how miserable their lives are but they’re trapped.
Don’t do it anons.

>>13488896
I've been looking into business school now as an alternative as well.
Is it harder to get into business school or law school? Law school seems easy as hell to get into one, just hard to get into one worth going to
Does school matter with an MBA the way it does with a JD?

>>13489032
I don't know i'm from western europe.
The thing is, if there is something you like, even if it sounds ridiculous, do it. Boomer were judging a whole generation of teenagers, making them feel guilty if they didin't do a proper business, law, or medical school, or STEM. Millions of kids did go into field they hate, just to make their family happy/proud.

The thing is, if you really like chocolate, you should make chocolate. Your family and friends will mock you for years, but in the end, if you really like what you are doing, and got a little talent for it, you'll get farther in life making chocolate than being a fucking lawyer.

>>13488808
>70k
lawyers in my area start at 50k just barely above a cop lmao i know plumbers with bigger houses and better cars

>>13489106
50k and probably 200k (and rising with interest) deep in student loans. Law school is the definition of for-profit

Imagine going to law school in 2019 and spending 80k a year for 3 years

If not law what are we supposed to do with this garbage philosophy degree

>>13490704
The same thing I'm supposed to do with my English degree. Public relations or human resources

Studying law was the greatest regret of my life, in many ways it’s a dying field for new lawyers and one which is able to get away with some pretty horrific treatment of people due to its toxic culture.

Unless you have a family member in it who runs a firm its a bad choice

>>13490740
HR requires specialized degrees mostly, PR I've never looked into - thanks, I'll check it out

>>13490757
Nah, you can get into HR with a writing focused bachelors. English is what many HR people are.
Philosophy would probably work

>>13490809
Any advice getting into it? What sort of work to look for?

>>13490856
Are you still in school? Honestly internships are the way to go. Just intern somewhere and build up that resume.

>>13490905
Not anymore, but I have worked in different roles (some somewhat HR related) while I was. Been studying for lsat and second guessing since I started but I feel like there's no other options for me

>>13490922
I was studying for the LSAT and taking a prep course and just sucking at it. I was super stressed, super discouraged and felt like shit. Then I realized being a lawyer is fucking terrible and not worth the debt.
There are loads of options, people just focus on one and assume that's all they're allowed to do. Explore options and forget being a miserable lawyer

>>13490809
Hell HR you can have major in just about anything so long as you present as someone who will represent the company.

>>13491016
You gotta remember, HR isn't your friend. You're there to represent the company, not the employee. That's why a lot of people struggle with it.
But you can make good money doing it after a few years

>>13490279
>Imagine going to law school in 2019 and spending 80k a year for 3 years

boomers have a lot of money. i was shocked to find how many of my ivy league peers had their schooling completely paid for by their parents.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSV0N1kxcrQ

reminder: being a lawyer means having to work for these people and work 50-70 hours a week preventing anyone they fuck from getting a piece.

>>13491179
Being a lawyer is for these rich types. If you're paying sticker price for a law school, especially one outside the top 14, you're an idiot

>>13484023
nice job conflating is/ought

>>13484224

you sound like an epic beast. the fact that your imagined scenario will never happen means it's objectively wrong

>mfw i'm about to go to Bristol University to do law reading this thread

>>13491508
Well, if you somehow manage to be the luckiest human alive and get a job at a Magic Circle law firm you'll be miserable and filthy rich.
If you don't then you'll just be miserable. At least most lawyers kill themselves eventually so it will only be for a couple years.

>>13491526
oh that's good.

>>13491533
I actually don't know anything about the legal industry over there, just that it probably doesn't pay anywhere as much as corporate jobs in the US pay which is 160-190k starting for first year associates.
Being a lawyer for anything less than 160k isn't worth the mental stress and anguish, the brutally long hours(80+ a week sometimes) and the debt required to get a JD in the first place.
I'm guessing it's the same or worse in the UK.

I haven't read the comments, but as a Lawyer I would advise you not to become a lawyer.

It's a terrible hierarchical structure and there is an expectation that you will work 14+ hour days to meet your billable requirements because your autistic partner doesn't sleep and wants you to be a robot like them. If you fail this it's easy to find someone that is willing to do the hours and work because law is a saturated market.

Sure, 200k+ a year as a senior associate sounds great, but when you take into account the hours and personal sacrifice that go into it (overtime is not something you enter and receive), you quickly realise that some low IQ fuck train that dropped out of school and works FIFO cleaning dishes at a mine site is on the same money as you, it's pretty annoying.

But hey do what you want kid, you might be autistic and love it. It's the layer cake effect of taking shit until you no longer no what shit smells like and then you are a partner unload your shit onto those beneath you. That's rewarding.

>thread only about common law countries
>you can only work in law firms as a lawyer
>all these defeatists that somehow got through law school of some sort

>>13488723
Yeah, it's not the perfect job or anything but I like it.
>>13492139
I don't think all that many people giving advice actually got through law school.

>>13492586
>I don't think all that many people giving advice actually got through law school.
Law school in itself is a pain. It's work all the time. No fun at all. Like it's been said, it's saturated.

Let's be realistic, many went to law school because of the cool US Tvshows about law. This and also the promises of very good money.
In the end it's slaving the life away, many state attorneys are complete pieces of shit, worse than the criminals. Fucking free-mason trash. No honor, all lies, all fake smiles and sympathy. Necessity to have an absolute respect of the hierarchy, if you don't, you are out. I feel that i could talk harsher to a mafia boss than to a state attorney, with less consequences. The slightest disrespect, you can pay extremely dire consequences for your career. The mob boss will break a few bones, and then you go on with your life. These judges and state attorneys can ruin your life is the legal field, definitively. And these people know one another very well. They are all free-masons after all. No empathy at all. Even if you are supposed to be a good guy.
In general, law is way too much work for way too less reward.
Like it has been said, i feel that opening a business, is way less risky and less work. At least you know why and for who you work for. Hell even a $40K job a year with some side business is better. In business, you will encounter pieces of shit, and good guys. In law, it's mostly pieces of shit.

Reading this thread a month away from law school is pretty funny. Funny in the way that im from Europe and over here Law is the most popular thing to study.
Dont get me wrong its cut-throat as fuck and we all compete for the best grades during the 4,5years of studying, but with good enough grades you are guaranteed a clerkship in at least a few places in the country, which in turn is very good on the resume if you wanna work at a firm. Or you can keep going for the trad lawyer jobs. (The student debt we get is for living and uni expenses, so its not bad at all)

It seems indeed that law is pretty scary to study in the US, but aleast in northern europe it is a very solid thing to go for if you can manage good grades. It is also the go-to "im not sure what i wanna do, better study something broad" degree.
There is a running joke that people going to uni for economics are people too retarded to get into law. And law-students are salty at STEM students for being smarter than them, and doctors are the gods of uni.

Got a bit ranty at the end, just wanted to shed some more positive feels to this thread for fellow eu-anons atleast.

>>13494540
FUCK YOU eurofags you get nationalized healthcare you will NEVER know how much of a nightmare the US is for poorfags

>>13494730
I have relatives in the US, i understand to a degree but true enough. Im renting out my apartment while moving away for law school, wanna move here anon? I live in Sweden so as a immigrant you will prob get enough benefits to easily pay the rent.

WE NEED /LAW/!

>>13495461
agreed, /his/ is a shit show of race baiting and regular history stuff, and /lit/ is too busy with calling each other midwits and talking about books. Law should get a board

>>13495461
Seconded

>>13495461
>>13495492
>>13495624
what about autoadmit

>>13495687
>learning and accustoming to a new website
no

>>13495461
hmm wouldnt something like /uni/ be more realistic? With generals for law/med/engi/fil etc

>>13482563
this is meaningless. Of course another line in your education is "always" better. The question is, is it worth the cost in effort, time, money?

>>13484023
NPC

>>13488064
>if you're an incel,

Remind me why women deserve a chunk of your income which isn't needs based, but based on "the life style they are accustomed to". Its the ultimate slavery. Unlike debt/over consumption you can't downsize.

>>13488234
> plumbers have regulations too so obviously the amount of hoop jumping is comparable or even equivalent

lots of pseudo in this thread

>>13482477
Wouldn't do it myself, personally, so not much to contribute there for you.
>>13482563
>Undergrad degrees are useless
Bullshit.
>>13485191
This.

>>13488368
KEK

>>13488368
A gay lawyer wouldn't get clients

>>13495848
I don’t actually know or give a fuck about plumbers until I can’t fix the problem with the pipes.