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13453501 No.13453501 [Reply] [Original]

>A famous NDE suggesting people are having sensory experiences when the body's senses were blocked or not functioning was the subject of a television documentary, "The Day I Died," and reported in Light and Death, a book by cardiologist Dr. Michael Sabom.59 To remove a deadly large aneurysm from beneath her brain, Pam Reynolds was put into a state of hypothermic cardiac arrest. Her body temperature was lowered to 60 degrees, her heartbeat and breathing were stopped, and the blood was drained from her head; her brain waves flattened, showing no brain activity.

>After her successful operation, she was warmed and her own blood was returned to her body. When she could communicate, she reported a startling near-death experience. She gave remarkably accurate, detailed descriptions of the surgical procedure. She reported that someone in the operating room said something about her arteries being small, and she described the Midas Rex bone saw as looking like an electric toothbrush, having interchangeable blades, and a high-pitched whirring sound.

>These things she saw and heard occurred during the time when she was deeply unconscious, but before the blood was actually drained from her. During the time she described hearing and seeing details, her eyes were taped shut and her ears were plugged with devices that monitored her brain stem activity. These devices produced loud clicks measuring 95 decibels at a rate of 11.3 clicks per second, drowning out all outside noise.60

>Pam went on to describe a remarkable NDE experience that could have happened either when she was unconscious and sensory deprived or while she was brain dead. During the neardeath experience, she reported floating out of the operating room and traveling down a tunnel to a light at the end where her deceased relatives and friends were waiting. Her long-dead grandmother was there. Eventually, her deceased uncle took her back and she re-entered her body.

>She said that during the experience, she saw with vision that was "brighter and more focused and clearer than normal vision." When she heard her deceased grandmother calling, the sound was clearer hearing than she had with her ears, but her auditory functions were shut down by noise and unconsciousness. Five eminent cardiac and medical specialists (Dr. Sam Parnia, Dr. Van Lommel, Dr. Robert Spetzler, Dr. Peter Fenwick, and Dr. Michael Sabom) all supported the accuracy of Pam’s stated experience during her clinical death, reporting that "What she saw corresponded to what actually happened." 61 She saw and heard details while either sensory deprived and unconscious, with her eyes taped shut and hearing blocked by loud clicks, or while she was brain dead.

This single medical case BTFOes ALL atheistic and materialistic philosophy and literature plus half of all Western thought.

>> No.13453508

>>13453501
There are shitloads of NDE's besides that one. They are far more common than most people suspect.

>> No.13453510
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13453510

>>13453501
materialism is blind faith

>> No.13453522

>>13453501
http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/w/images/1/1b/Twenty_Cases_Suggestive_of_Reincarnation.pdf
Dharmalads continue to win

>> No.13453665

>>13453501
NDEs are something else. I hope they are real but sometimes I feel they're too good to be true, or maybe that's what They want me to think.

>> No.13453677

>>13453501
>anecdotal """evidence"""

Yikes

>> No.13453686 [DELETED] 

>>13453677
weird cause the philosophy of the book seems to align with Vedanta more than something like Buddhism
should've been titled 'Shankara' instead of 'Siddhartha' desu

>> No.13453698
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13453698

>>13453677
>it doesn't fit my preconceived notions so it doesn't real!!

>> No.13453701

>>13453677
>Five eminent cardiac and medical specialists (Dr. Sam Parnia, Dr. Van Lommel, Dr. Robert Spetzler, Dr. Peter Fenwick, and Dr. Michael Sabom) all supported the accuracy of Pam’s stated experience during her clinical death, reporting that "What she saw corresponded to what actually happened." 61


yikes cringe yikes umm sweetie have sex yikes

>> No.13453715

>>13453677
>An organization of people who have had the experience, called the International Association for Near Death Studies (IANDS), now has tens of thousands of members. Dozens of books have been written, filled with cases of people who have had near-death experiences. A Gallup and Proctor poll in 1982 estimated that 5 percent of the adult population of the United States have had neardeath experiences. Other surveys put the number at 7.5 percent.

>> No.13454294

>>13453701
sneed

>> No.13454903

>>13453522
https://www.near-death.com/reincarnation/research/ian-stevenson.html
Based. I visited a local Buddhist temple for the first time today, but it doesn't seem to be what I wanted it to. It's not really for outsiders so much, and is Chinese in origin. Will keep searching for an adequate Sangha near to me.

>>13453501
Atheistic? It has zero relation to theism or it's negation. Metaphysical idealism is a simple way to account for these and any other spiritual phenomena: the mind is the fundamental ground of reality, and therefore you in your essential components have always been here and always will be. Reincarnation is also true, and the process whereby you take finite incarnations into differing material vessels for whatever unknowable reason. A person can believe in metaphysical idealism without having any spirituality in them at all, since materialism is merely another metaphysical worldview, and not a "proven' one.

Evolutionary theory is also greatly hurt by these cases, given that a strictly biological worldview like evolution cannot account for the existence of something supra-biological, nor could such an item have formed from anything biological - ergo, abiogenesis and a worldview that holds everything to be genetically-originated is automatically false.

Also, astral projection is something that everyone should simply try out for themselves to help verify the import of these NDE's.

>> No.13454909

>>13453508
Indeed.

>> No.13454925

>>13454903
Find a Theravadin one or a Vajrayana one.
Hope the monks there are willing to teach you stuff from the Early Buddhist Texts (Pali Canon...etc).

>> No.13454948

>>13453501
DMT flooding the necessary receptors due to the brain perceiving it’s death

>> No.13454984

>>13454948
lmao whatever you say, Joe

>> No.13454994

>>13454948
this guy’s brain was almost completely disabled, which rules out your dumdum theory
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qbkgj5J91hE

>> No.13455011

>>13454925
Blessings. Hopefully one of those will be near to me.

>> No.13455035

>>13454903
Evol theory imo is just a set of tools to understand some biological events/processes.
It does not speak anything about ultimate whys and it shouldnt, since its not its purpose.

>> No.13455052

>>13454925
Also, I've been listening to various monks online recently: Ven. Amy Miller, Yuttadhamo Bhikkhu, Robina Courtin, Ajahn Brahms and others. Do you have any more figures you'd recommend I listen to? Thanks.

>> No.13455066

>>13455035
his point is it is impossible to select for a "comforting" vision at the end of a biological system's life cycle

>> No.13455069

>>13454948
This doesn't even slightly account for the information she knew of, confirmed by external sources, regarding what happened to her during the period of operation.

>>13455035
I never mentioned ultimate whys, merely that any component of ourselves which is supra-biological cannot have been produced by a biological process. Abiogenesis is automatically falsified as a theory of our and possibly all lifeform's origins, and genetic mutation plus natural selection are automatically irrelevant to those non-biological dimensions of us.

>> No.13455076

>>13454994
the eternal concept is spooky
that means you lived an infinite amount of time before this incarnation and experienced everything infinite times even this exact version of human life as yourself
time is like a circle

>> No.13455083

>>13455069
n-no you just need to read carl sagan! we can’t go back to the dark ages of superstition, these are all hoaxes!

>> No.13455090

>>13455083
I know you're memeing, but apparently even Plato reports a story of an NDE he heard complete with the tunnel of light and everything

>> No.13455095

>>13455066
Nice try. Provide an actual biological explanation for the above case before pretending your materialistic worldview is so unassailable.

>> No.13455100

>>13455090
really? where?

>> No.13455104

>>13455052
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ysNrhpUs7g&list=PLBOs5PaVNZP9e6OlH8OhOF5t67JdUr6yi
Those are the best recorded Dhamma talks I'm aware of.
Also:
http://seeingthroughthenet.net/books/
Nyanananda Bhikkhu has recorded sermons on this site although they can be hard to understand due to poor audio quality and his heavy accent. If you're willing, check out the PDFs they're great.
Ajahn Chah and Nyanananda Bhikkhu are my two favourite 20th-21st century monks

>> No.13455108

>>13455076
I don't know if that's true, since there can be an infinity which does not permit repeated events within itself. But yes, eternity is a very scary concept, which finite beings shouldn't try and comprehend - madness is the usual result of doing so.

>> No.13455113

>>13455095
Not sure what you're saying, I don't think there is a biological explanation. How could evolution select for something that happens at the end of an organism's life cycle?

>> No.13455115

>>13455104
woops I only linked a single video
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLBOs5PaVNZP9e6OlH8OhOF5t67JdUr6yi
here's the whole playlist
The translations of the talks are recited by Ajahn Amaro and not by Ajahn Chah himself but still top tier.

>> No.13455117

>>13453501
Yes, we have what's called an astral body or a "soul", which operates on a plane of physics slightly higher than what we are ourselves familiar with under corporeality.

>> No.13455126

>>13455113
My mistake, I thought you were employing sarcasm and claiming it to be so. Apologies.

>> No.13455134

>>13455100
that would be the myth of er that ends the Republic, apparently it was an account of a real event and not just a story

>> No.13455137

>>13455100
Republic (10.614–10.621), "The Myth of Er"

>> No.13455143

>>13455126
all good

>> No.13455189

>>13455134
As was Atlantis.

(atlantis deniers out of my thread reeeeee!)

>> No.13455215

>>13455189
>he thinks I think Atlantis was a myth

/lit/ is an esoteric board

>> No.13455223

>>13455215
he's saying the opposite of that

>> No.13455249

>>13455108
its half comfy and half frightening
to finish a circle (or maybe it's like an upward spiral) it takes almost an eternity too, we indeed can't comprehend

>> No.13455259
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13455259

FELIX
FELIX
WHAT IF
LET ME FINISH FELIX
WHAT IF
DUDE
LIFE IS AN INFINITE CIRCLE
AND DEEP DOWN WE ALL KNOW THAT WE ARE IMMORTAL
FELIX
JUST IMAGINE