/lit/ - Literature

Brothers Karamazov

Most books written prior to the 1900s will do the trick.

>>13443395
You should read the Greeks to outgrow judaism/semitic faith, OP.

>>13443395
It was not a book actually, although they helped. I had a religious experience.

>>13443423
How do you know it was something supernatural and not just a material psychological phenomenon as a result of your past experience?

>>13443409
And then Philo to merge it back together, and then the gospel of John, and then the Enneads, and then Augustine's Confessions.

>>13443409
Christian theology is an extention of platonism and neoplatonism, brainlet.

>>13443450
But a better book is probably something by Chesterton or Lewis. The Everlasting Man or Orthodoxy or Heretics, Mere Christianity of Abolition of Men.

>>13443466
or* abolition of men

>>13443395
I like that pic. You've got a nice, big, wide-open gateway with flowers and music and dancing, people freely falling to hedonistic and wild enjoyment without a care for responsibility. Then, in a small, narrow, and cramped space through which is only enough room for one, and you have to carry a burden along with you, you can climb high by the sweat of your brow to strive to reach Christ's example. Meanwhile, the hedonists, the partiers, they push and shove and kick up dust until they dance right to their sad end. I know someone who is going to die that way. Alone, broke, undoubtedly owing money, constantly trying to avoid repercussions or responsibility, he's nearing 60, divorced, I have little doubt that his son doesn't want anything to do with him, he lies, cheats, steals... the most malicious and evil individual I know. There will be nothing for him when he's gone, but for those who follow Christ, who try to do their best by God, helping when they can, sacrificing for the future... many will mourn such heroes.

As an alcoholic, I don't entirely know which way I will go. I do try as best I can to sacrifice to prepare for the future, just today while downtown I gave a dollar to a couple panhandlers... but it was on a trip in which I spent almost $80 on a bottle of strong rum that'll get me drunk twice and 3.5g of strong pot that'll... well, it'll last me months. I don't toke much, in fact I use it to try and remedy my drinking to some extent, but which path am I going down more? Likely the hedonist's path, but I've gone and finally gotten my high school graduation equivalent and now I'll be taking journalism in College in autumn. Looking forward to it, and just today I got A LOT of the paperwork done that's required to confirm the funding for it. I'm very poor, was raised such but now even moreso, in fact I'm on welfare. I think I'm on a good path... my drinking wouldn't be nearly as bad if not for that evil individual I mentioned. I live with him... it sucks.

>>13443395
Kierkegaard

The Bible

>>13443395
The God Delusion

It might look weird, but Carlyle was the first writer in a long time to give me the awesome sense of the religious that I felt as a child.

>>13443477
A guy handed me a Chick Tract like this once.

>>13443592
Fuck off fedora tip

Why are you basing your knowledge on god with testimony written by some people who lived hundreds of years ago? Why won't you listen to today's science based on evidence? Evolution is the real truth

>>13443477
My advice to you, from an individual pursuing this path myself, is to look into meditation, combine it with introspection, and attempt to vanquish your vices by that manner. Examine yourself and determine what alcohol and weed bring to you, such that you seek them out in the first place, and then try and meditate yourself into a place of greater self-control. Being able to separate yourself from the desire of intoxication, and align yourself with simply observing said desire like it were any other passing article of being - may help you tremendously in overcoming the impulse themselves. Me personally? M*sturbation is my vice. I'm addicted to the instant pleasure my body can bring me from it. And to this day, very often is there no space of indecision between the impulses's onset and consummation - I simply give in, immediately. But after starting meditation, I've been to observe the impulse, letting it be there and letting myself detach from it. And combining this with a journal I write in, where I write about my depression and how it brings me towards hedonism as a means of substituting for the lack of genuine happiness I feel in my life, have both helped me in steadily overcoming this vice. I feel confident that continued effort of this kind will someday allow me to conquer it completely. That said, best of luck with all of your personal endeavors. Christianity seems to be the faith you align with, whereas Buddhism is what I personally resonate to - but both of us are ultimately striving after the same ends here.

May all beings know happiness, and the causes of happiness.

>>13443626
cringe

>>13443477
lmao fucking coping faggot
Christianity is a massive cope
>haha, everyone who I'm jealous of is going to suffer forever and I love it! I'm such a good person!
>>13443642
kill yourself you viceful fuck
>May all beings know happiness, and the causes of happiness.
As if you actually give a shit, you only say that for yourself and your posting image - a few steps behind tripfagging

>>13443664
>atheists are tole-

>>13443672
I'm not an atheist

>>13443642
God you're so self obsessed, nobody fucking cares

>>13443626
double based
>>13443656
>>13443672
>>13443673
*tips fedora*

>>13443698

>>13443395
>on the left, men carrying crosses
>on the right, chads and staceys going to party

confirmed. only men go to heaven.

>>13443664
>>13443691
Offering personal advice to someone describing his vices demonstrates self-obsession and lack of genuine concern for others? Why would I even write that out, if not for trying to help another person?

>>13443395
I thought the phrase was, "The path to heaven is straight and narrow. The road to hell is broad and winding."

>>13443733
>You can enter God’s Kingdom only through the narrow gate. The highway to hell is broad, and its gate is wide for the many who choose that way.

>>13443722
lmao, further proof that Christianity is just a pathetic, malicious cope
>OMG YES YES YES, NU-MALE INCELS LIKE ME GO TO HEAVEN WHILE THE PEOPLE WHO ARE HAPPY GO TO HELL FOR EVER, YES YES YES

I am that by nisargadatta ;;

>>13443664
nice projection , it is how you would behave if you were christian
>>haha, everyone who I'm jealous of is going to suffer forever and I love it! I'm such a good person!
you completely, on purpose or not, missed the point of OP picture. carrying your cross,(which is an alegory ) avoiding sin and trying to be man of virtue is going to lead you to heaven while following hedonism and living careless life caring only about pleasure which is going to destroy them
>>haha, everyone who I'm jealous of is going to suffer forever and I love it! I'm such a good person!
they are already suffering >>13443477

The hero with a thousand faces.

>>13443793
lots of christians fucking love that people are going to hell forever
they revel in it
they're a member of a special club, and everyone who isn't a member is going to be in torment for eternity
no matter how pathetic they are in real life, they can pat themselves on the back and feel superior to everyone else
fuck christianity

The Enneads

>>13443809

What's funnier is that they'll claim not to, to really hope that you get saved, and that they'll pray for you (how gallant of them).

What they can't stand is the idea that everyone-jesus christ, Jeffery Dahmer, your dad, everyone comes to the exact same one undifferentiated end, in the end. Nothing. What they can't stand, is the truth. This truth-a very HUMANE one, at that-is so hateful to them, that they are obliged to concoct and reproduce an extreme version of a differentiation of status in the afterlife, as a projection of the differentiation of status that they know in life. And if this entails the notion of eternal suffering for the out-group, that's justifiable and doesn't bother them in the sense that god suffers it to persist and so must have a good reason. (Do not say: the notion of hell is unoriginal/only peculiar to this-or-that sect. The fact remains that the notion is inextricably bound up with the historical christianity handed down to us from antiquity and the middle ages, and is one of its ugliest manifestations. For this reason, also do not point to the Annihilationism of the JWs, who are at least "humane" in that doctrine, though only out of slavish reading and not out of any truly enlightened (I intentionally selected this very word to trigger those who have it coming) sensibility.)

The conventional idea of hell itself should be the thing that christians cannot stand, not the comfy idea of nothingness. And for those of you who would sneer at this post, go on-you'll only prove the point made in its first paragraph.

This guy. Interestingly enough me finding God and my increased hatred of all things Christian have gone hand in hand.

>>13443887
I'm not Christian, atheist or sneering at your post, but you shouldn't presume to know what happens following death, while also criticizing another group for their own interpretation. Nobody actually knows, different people hold differing beliefs of it. Nothingness is, well, just another belief-system. But I agree with your first sentence.

>>13443933
How do we bring an Advaita takeover to the West? I've been watching Rupert Spira videos lately, as an example of a Western teacher who distills the essence of such doctrines to a mainstream audience well.

I didn't have to read anything

>>13443395
This is the only book you need to read. After it, then you only need the Bible.

>>13443974
>How do we bring an Advaita takeover to the West?
Even though I would love for that to happen. I don't think it will happen and that it probably wouldn't even be a good thing.

We first fully have to shed Christianity otherwise all that will happen is that Christianity will subvert Advaita and absorb it into itself like it did with all the European traditions and then slowly start chipping away at all this newly absorbed "heretical" Advaita until once again Christianity reigns supreme. You're already seeing it. In every thread and among plenty of actual Christian theologians they push the narrative that Christianity is non-dual, and that Buddha, Jesus and the Rishi's of the Upanishads etc all taught the same thing. And guess what? People are buying it. Even with Christianities apparent dualism, it's emphasis on a personal God and their complete attachments to everything rejected in most other religious traditions. I mean those people think their egos, personalities, likes and dislikes, emotions will live on forever, and not only that, they've even taken their attachments to such extremes that they believe their literal bodies of shit, piss, skin and hair will be resurrected and exist forever too. Never underestimate the Christian ability to absorb and subvert other traditions.

Wait 50 more years or so. Or all you will be doing is breed new life into Christianity.

>>13444029
Unless you go full on Varg-mode tribal with it. Then all will be fine.

>>13444029
>I mean those people think their egos, personalities, likes and dislikes, emotions will live on forever, and not only that, they've even taken their attachments to such extremes that they believe their literal bodies of shit, piss, skin and hair will be resurrected and exist forever too
Well, these people haven’t been reading their Bible.

2 Corinthians 5
>For we know that when this earthly tent we live in is taken down (that is, when we die and leave this earthly body), we will have a house in heaven, an eternal body made for us by God himself and not by human hands. 2 We grow weary in our present bodies, and we long to put on our heavenly bodies like new clothing. 3 For we will put on heavenly bodies; we will not be spirits without bodies. 4 While we live in these earthly bodies, we groan and sigh, but it’s not that we want to die and get rid of these bodies that clothe us. Rather, we want to put on our new bodies so that these dying bodies will be swallowed up by life. 5 God himself has prepared us for this, and as a guarantee he has given us his Holy Spirit.
>6 So we are always confident, even though we know that as long as we live in these bodies we are not at home with the Lord. 7 For we live by believing and not by seeing. 8 Yes, we are fully confident, and we would rather be away from these earthly bodies, for then we will be at home with the Lord. 9 So whether we are here in this body or away from this body, our goal is to please him. 10 For we must all stand before Christ to be judged. We will each receive whatever we deserve for the good or evil we have done in this earthly body.

>>13443809
then they are failing at being christian. Christianity is about compasion and every christian should be trying to save people who by his belief are going to suffer in hell forever. what you are describing is typical american prostant/baptist behavior which has nothing to do with christianity .
>they're a member of a special club, and everyone who isn't a member is going to be in torment for eternity
I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me— just as the Father knows me and I know the Father—and I lay down my life for the sheep. I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd.
>>13443887
Im not like this and my biggest wish is that every human being would be forgiven and would spend eternity in Heaven.
>The conventional idea of hell itself should be the thing that christians cannot stand
nobody deserves infinite and everlasting pain in hell but nobody deserves infinite hapiniess either so its fair for me
>not the comfy idea of nothingness
idea of nothingness is only comfy from the distance , in reality on your deathbed it won't seem so comfy anymore , trust me .

>>13444065
Proving my point of the way of the Christian. Which is why all non-Christians have to be very wary around Christians when speaking in metaphysical terms, because the Christians sees only holes into which to enter and subvert.

>>13444002
based

>>13444029
From the beginning, Christianity's genius is found principally in it's ability to maintain cultural hegemony through the absorption of outside doctrines compatible with it's ends (ex. Neoplatonism), and the elimination of those which are not (ec. Gnosticism, Paganism).

Christianity has never ceased to change over the course of time, evolving precisely as necessary for itself to remain dominant within the world. New sects created as needed to rebel against earlier ones, without collapsing the culture entirely, merely growing a new region of grass within it's garden, and modern ones adopting scientific theories into their doctrine wherever possible, such that today I often see apologists citing the Big Bang as equivalent to Genesis. It is definitely an insidious culture, always working to sustain itself by whatever means needed.

My personal feeling Is that modern Western dysfunction - the nihilism, aspiritualism, consumerism and metaphysical materialism - is the direct product of Christianity, rather than being the antithesis of it. People felt that in order to cast off Christian chains, they had to remove themselves of whatever Christianity had itself contained - virtues like abstinence or economic minimalism are seen as decidedly Christian in nature, rather than universally, spiritually wholesome.

I imagine that if the intellectually-rigorous doctrines of Shankaracharya were what Western intellectuals had to respond to, they'd have a far higher perception of spirituality, Divinity, and reality than has been given to them by such a simplistic doctrine as the one which formed their minds. I imagine far less people would be "atheists", in the same way that many who wore such a label came to shed it after reading Plato's dialogues and acquainting themselves with a presentation of reality their previous educational or religious background had not provided to them.

I personally lean towards Buddhism closest, just because I find it the most actionable, with the entire emphasis being on it's praxis. But I just wish I could see Western culture uplift itself from modern consumerism, nihilism, sexual profligacy, and atheistic rebellion - without simply resorting to religious reactionaries trying to install the former culture again, and especially not to pretend it was "actually non-dual" in order to help do so, like you said. Unfortunately, the closest we have today is New-Age spirituality, which I try not to disparage unfairly and treat like the punching-bag many traditional spiritualists do of it, but is unfortunately impoverished of intellectualism, aesthetics, moral virtue or anything which would esteem it as a replacement for conventional religion. I doubt there's any means to bring a form of intellectual, ascetically-emphasizing and transcendentally-oriented spiritualism to mainstream Western culture within the modern period we live under. Really pains me to say this, because I disdain living under such spiritually-degenerated times.

>>13443974
>How do we bring an Advaita takeover to the West?

You can''t. You can join a guru cult but you can never become a Hindu. And certainly Westerners en masse can't. You'll never have caste, to cite only one obstacle.

>>13443404
More like prior to the 1990s :3

>>13444821
>advaita
>caste or even Hindu

>>13443461
Other way around, giga brainlet. :3

>>13444068

There's a chance that I have cancer, so my mortality has been seriously on my mind lately. I am perfectly fine with re-becoming nothing. Do not presume to tell me how I will feel.

>>13444830
Just because you like something doesn't mean it's independent from its home religion. You are like the bros who claim that Sufism is not Islam or Zen is not Buddhism. Go to India and tell people you can be an advaitin while despising Hinduism and the caste system. You will get cut to pieces with machetes.

>>13444068
>idea of nothingness is only comfy from the distance , in reality on your deathbed it won't seem so comfy anymore , trust me .
Bullshit. I've been near death a few times. I'm fine with nothing.
I'd rather there be no heaven or hell, than there be no nothingness but heaven and hell.

>>13444835
The Bible lacks metaphysics. The Jews didn't concern themselves at all with it. Which makes Christianity quite the weird religion as its metaphysics is an afterthought. Essentially Christians built the walls and roof first and then had to try and build the foundation in order to make sure the house didn't collapse. You can see it in all the great Christian metaphysicians like Aquinas. He was basically trapped in this box of his(Christianity) and could never actually step out of it and take his reasoning to its fulfillment in fear of heresy and whatnot. Don't get me wrong, he decorated his little box very nicely but in the end he was limited by his religion and he couldn't reach the heights he otherwise would have been able to reach had he lived in a non-Abrahamic society.

Most other religions derive their myths and legends from their metaphysics. Christians had to try and fit metaphysics into their myths and legends. And now the rest of the world is cringing at them.

>>13444888
Oh stop. Metaphysics inherently explores the idea of a prime mover in the first place.

EVERY major religion has traces of the Abrahamic God within it, because he is the one true God. Every single dodging around his commandments because you want to be some kind of sardonic Comedy Central atheist is an absolute abhorrence in the eyes of your maker.

Aristotle proves the monotheistic concept, and Plato uses it frequently, which is to say he references God throughout his republic.

Finally, listen to this

https://vocaroo.com/i/s16ljb2LD1JL

:3

When I read about Noah's flood and the genocide of the Canaanites. How could I resist worshipping a god who kills babies in mythical floods and orders his backwards followers to murder every man woman child and livestock belonging to an ethnic group? I also felt amazed by the inerrancy of the Bible such as when Matthews gospel has a completely different genealogy of Jesus than Luke's does (had a real blast reading through the endless genealogies in the bible too btw; let's not mention that they put the earth at around 6000 years old). But what really did it for me was the talking donkeys. I mean who but a fedorafag would reject the FACT that talking donkeys totally exist?

>>13444888
>Most other religions derive their myths and legends from their metaphysics. Christians had to try and fit metaphysics into their myths and legends. And now the rest of the world is cringing at them.

Examples, please. The Hindus for example, had the non-metaphysical Vedas before they had the metaphysical upanishads. The Greeks had Homer before they had Plato and Aristotle. The Romans never had any metaphysics to speak of. Your assertion is laughable on its face.

>>13444862
You are definitely overestimating the power of the caste system in India right now. Also Advaita is basically just metaphysics so saying you can't subscribe to it outside of India is like saying you can't subscribe to quantum mechanics outside of Germany.

You do not derive any morals, ethics or rituals from Advaita and there are prophets needed. You can adopt its metaphysics while praying to fucking Thor or the spirits of Fuji if you'd like. The truths of Advaita does not depend on Vishnu.

>>13444904
>https://vocaroo.com/i/s16ljb2LD1JL
cringe

>>13444909
https://vocaroo.com/i/s1wE7oHuWrsG

:3

>>13444904
Commit suicide

>>13444920
>https://vocaroo.com/i/s1wE7oHuWrsG
holy shit you are such a delusional out of touch boomer
>t-tarturus, which is uhhhhh, where you get tortured of something

>>13444920
I'm not listening to that. 4chans beauty is in it so anonymity. If you have something substantial to say then type it out.

>>13444928
You are scared. Your soul is scared

https://vocaroo.com/i/s1s28EcfjNbT

We are going to bring about a new science. The science of God.

>>13444938
https://vocaroo.com/i/s0rgfHssEEx9

:]

>>13444931
>4chans beauty is in it so anonymity
https://vocaroo.com/i/s0HNUtaBzr7G

Don't reply to the vocaroo egotist. Unrelated, did you know there is an option to report for signature use?

>>13444943
>https://vocaroo.com/i/s0rgfHssEEx9
https://vocaroo.com/i/s00ueee6Iisw

>>13443622
He could've meant it as The God Delusion being such a bad book that helped him become a Christian.

>>13444953
https://vocaroo.com/i/s14yVoOlbsUB

:3

>>13444948
https://vocaroo.com/i/s1OND7rlbxyC

>>13444959
>https://vocaroo.com/i/s14yVoOlbsUB
https://vocaroo.com/i/s0za2vfi7fdr

>>13443450
Then read Industrial Society and It's Future and Fanged Noumena

>>13444960
>:3
That's a signature. This website was also designed for anonymity. If you want a name use reddit or create something that requires you to use a trip, like being a translator or someone who makes something. Making 20 second stuttering vocaroos doesn't count, because they're even lower quality than the average post on this board.

>>13444979
But it wasn't me so you'd be banning the wrong person.

See how stupid it is to equate a face with a 'signature'??

Not today, faggot. I'm not going to stop until your life is hell.

:3

>>13444915
> i believe what white "teachers" say about advaita.

>>13444979
Also, listen to this

https://vocaroo.com/i/s1aOuoURrKZJ

>>13444968
https://vocaroo.com/i/s1ksFOAqUjBO

:-)

>>13444986
Blow it out your ass, cretin. The only person who's life is hell is the guy autistic enough to vocaroo all his posts.

>>13443809
I unironically get depressed when I think about all the people who may well end up in hell. It'd be billions of lost souls, scared and crying. In their moments of agony they wouldn't cry as sinners but as children who want it (the unbearable pain) to stop. But I think physical pain (if present at all) will be overshadowed by the post-existential dread of being in a truly "ended state", unable to change from this point onward. They will think about this and that transgression made in life and realize how it could have been averted, but this realization will only be made after the time of potential aversion has passed. It makes me sad that my friends, my family, my girlfriend might end up there. I could end up there. It does make some of us sad, anon. We'd like for everyone to make it into the Kingdom of God, or at least we should.

>>13444987
Nothing I said was false. And no I don't listen to white Advaitins. I pretty much only read Shankara.

>>13444995
Great mentality, you have the perspective of a ten year old or something. :3

I owe this relationship and many other things in my life to God and God alone.

>>13443477
Le alcoholic Christian man. Worry about yourself bro kick the liquor if you want to get through that tiny doorway in the OP.

I don’t think there’s anything else after death,but I go along with being a Catholic because I think the teachings of Christ are great, and it’s a pretty thought to think about.

God bless you you drunk bastard.

>>13445010
it's a shame your God doesn't really seem to care
he didn't put a lot of effort into putting a convincing word out

>>13445018
>you have the perspective of a ten year old or something

“Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. Therefore, whoever takes the lowly position of this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. And whoever welcomes one such child in my name welcomes me"

:)

>>13445029
I guess his words don't matter to those who have decided what they ought be convinced by

>>13444862
>You are like the bros who claim that Sufism is not Islam or Zen is not Buddhism
Literally who does that

>>13443395
>read some nice book
>see beauty and love and majesty that can only exist in the artifice of the written word
>believe in God because "this" is Sublimity beyond the Natural
>some period of introspection, daily life and following global events later
>return to my predominant belief in nothing but nothingness and death; and that if there is a God, He abandoned us a long time ago

Every fucking time. Hopefully I die within my religious spells

>>13443434
who cares nerd

>>13443395
>even wanting to believe in an authoritarian tyrant that tells you what you can and cant do and will punish you for questioning him like the dictator he is
if god did manifest and come done from heaven and looked you in the eye (youd die from this according to scripture but lets ignore that for a sec) and said to you
>imma fuck your wife, you have to watch
what do you do?
there is a reason people call you christcucks because you are grown men letting some sky daddy dictate life for you instead of tackling the responsibility yourself

>>13445067
I hear you. I fluctuate pretty heavily between initiatory paths like the one Evola describes and traditional Christianity.

Crime and Punishment

>>13443395
I was never an atheist to begin with, I went agnostic and fell into a cultural gnostic pagan rut

>>13443783
>>13443833
>>13443933
these

>>13443691
God cares

>>13444176
90IQ post

>>13445010
This is why I fear death. Not because of what an atheist would call oblivion, but the very real possibility that I will be absent from God.

>>13446532
Nice projection, faggot.

The Divine Comedy and Summa Theologica

>>13443423
Nice, anon. Same with me.

>>13443434
To answer this, my experience have nothing magical. But it happens repeatedly, and when I accepted it, everything seemed so much calmer, and I like it.

>>13446576
How could you take the Divine Comedy that seriously?

>>13443395
This,

and then Qur'an.

>>13443642
I consider prayer to be a kin to meditation and certainly involves introspection. Religion has been found to be among the best aids for dealing with substance abuse, perhaps even THE best. As for journalling, I've somewhat been doing that. Got one journal filled out and the current one perhaps 3/4 full, though it's largely my means of keeping track of my drinking since I don't always remember it the day after. As for happiness, I like Dr. Jordan Peterson's view on it. It's not a goal, not a proper one. It comes when you're doing things right, or it can also come artificially via substances but that's no good. Proper happiness comes from carrying a burden worth carrying, taking responsibility, and doing the right thing. That seems like a proper view of happiness. It's a welcome biproduct and shouldn't be a goal or aim.

>>13443664
Life inherently is difficult and contains suffering, even for the rich. To view Christianity as a 'cope', it reminds ms of that quote 'religion is the opiate of the masses', which to my understanding is the suggestion that it keeps people calm and obedient. The thing is, I think it requires a very lacking understanding of at least the Christian faith to view it as such. Christianity says if you are struck, turn the other cheek. That is BLOODY difficult, I mean, it has been revealed to me that I am physically AND mentally capable of murdering that nearly 60 year old malicious individual. As for saying I'm jealous of him, that seriously could not be further from the truth. He's divorced, he's wasted his retirement money (effectively wasting 17 years of alleged work in the Navy), he's short, weak, all the smoking has doubtlessly fucked his lungs up (I don't smoke tobacco and rarely smoke pot, mostly it helps with my drinking), even this morning I found butter knives and a dirty plate on a burner from whatever drugs they were doing the night before. There's a white substance on the knives so I don't think it was hash. Maybe crack for all I know. As for wanting him to suffer, frankly I've prayed that he would see the light, I've prayed for God to somehow enter his life to lead him down the right path, but yes, he will suffer forever if he carries on because I can't see him reaching 70 years old. Even 65 seems like a stretch for his lifestyle. As for viewing myself as 'such a good person', I am well aware of many of my faults and lackings. It is also an element of Christianity to accept that all people are sinners, including Christians. Arrogance is a distinctly non-Christian thing, and not something Christ abides by. Indeed to my understand, Christ has said that when you help the downtrodden and suffering, you're helping him. Christ also interacted with prostitutes and tax collectors whom were generally considered to be among the worst of the worst in society. That's a very humble thing.

>>13446667
Because I didn't read it by itself, but in relation with other medieval philosophy and literature since it's part of my coursework. Strangely enough, even when I was an atheist I prayed for help and grace which got me out of years long of depression and problems within months. I know you mean it as a quip but I really do keep it close to my heart and love it truly.

>>13443809
I'm in a Christian group, quite literally. We want to help when we can, and we accept most anyone who will come. I have also been to Alpha, and have told them about the nearly-60 year old individual who causes me such difficulty and shows such evil and malice to me. They wanted me to bring him, and indeed I had offered once. He said he didn't want to, that he'd 'burst into flames', he's quite proud of his atheism and regards all religion as inherent bullshit. Views priests as people spreading lies just to get money. In spite of this, he actually goes to a nearby church several times a week for free meals, free bread, and basically any kind of free stuff he can manage to get his hands on that might be of use. The bread usually just ends up rotting on the counter, no joke. Even now there's a woman who's relatively new to the group, in her 60s it seems, and she is a VERY unpleasant individual. She seems to refuse to accept any responsibility for her actions, past or present, and loves to judge others. She claims to have read the Bible and yet she doesn't seem to have much of a grasp of its teachings.

One example is that I had recently learned that there is only one sin that is unforgiveable, that no amount of repentance will expunge it from your soul. You can blaspheme against Christ, you can blaspheme even against God and be forgiven, but not the Holy Spirit. If you blaspheme the Holy Spirit, that sin will carry with you for eternity. When I mentioned this, she claimed that there were lots of unforgiveable sins like murder and theft. I looked at her incredulously and said "what?" Meanwhile, this other woman in the group whom does not put up with any nonsense and likewise dislikes said 60-odd year old woman, quickly told her that she was wrong. There's other examples of her trying to claim people are wrong without having any idea what she's talking about, including with writing. As I recall a lovely young woman who was briefly in the group had written something like 20,000 words for a book, and I said happily that it's halfway to being a novel! The 60-odd year old whom has said weeks or months earlier that she wants to write a book, tried to claim it was a long ways from being a novel. I quickly replied "well to my understanding a short story is within 7500 words, a novelette is 7500-17,500 words, a novella from 17,500-40,000 words, and anything 40,000 or more is a novel." The older woman sputtered and laughed and said "I don't know much about all that!" Or something like that, not in a way to discredit me, but in surrender of admitting that she didn't know anything about it. So why try to say I'm wrong and to discourage the young woman? Just not a pleasant individual... still, I would not for a moment suggest to the group leader that she should be removed. It would not be Christian, she needs help.

>>13445025
God bless you as well. Honestly my drinking had been fairly under control months ago, but dealing with the malicious and evil room mate that I'm presently stuck with has been terrible. Seriously, I don't call him 'evil' lightly. It's not something I generally call people... but him... he's become my own personal demon. The AIM for him is to cause me grief, and it's so sad. Someone who's been on the planet for over half a century, who has nothing, seeks to tear people down when they're actively improving in life. I'm getting educated, still picking away at my writing career, seeking a relationship, I want to be married someday and to have kids, perhaps even lots of kids. The fuckin' leftists are always on about how we need to bring in more people from the third world to deal with the birthrate issue, well I would prefer we have more good White Christian kids for the White Christian West instead of filling it with Brown Muslims, so many of whom seek to destroy this beautiful civilization. Islam is incompatible with the Christian values of the West.

>>13443400
fpbp
>twf you think you're like Ivan
>twf you want to be like Dimitri
>twf you know you must be like Alyosha
>twf you never want to be like Fyodor
>twf you're actually like Smerdyakov

>>13444888
>The Bible lacks metaphysics
>what the fuck even is the Book of Genesis

>>13446842
>If you blaspheme the Holy Spirit, that sin will carry with you for eternity.
It's just banter bro haha

>>13446842
Fuck the Holy Spirit he is a black nigger

>>13443626
"real truth"
whole opinion is discarded instantly when sprouting nonsense like this.

>>13446933
>what the fuck even is the Book of Genesis

A book they plagiarized from Mesopotamians

The bible made me an atheist. Bhagavad Gita showed me the light.

>>13444904
>EVERY major religion has traces of the Abrahamic God within it,
big cope

>>13445010
what a loving and merciful god :)

I’m not sure if I’m Christian, so I’m wondering if you Christanons can help me out with this.

I firmly believe in the existence of God and of a higher power. I also believe firmly in showing compassion and forgiveness for others and living life humbly without an excess of material wants. However, I dislike the idea of going to Church since I’m not a big fan of social gatherings and I feel disillusioned towards The Church as an institution. On top of that, I don’t pray regularly since I only really do it as good luck before facing some great trial (i.e exams, job interviews etc.).

Combine this with having the vice of being very fetishistic and I’m not really sure if I have a right to call myself Christian despite my personal beliefs aligning with Christ’s teachings. What am I?

>>13446933
There is about as much worked out metaphysics in Genesis as there are in the stories of how Odin created the worlds.

>>13443395
>outgrow atheism
A & ~A

>>13447030
This is why Christian ethics are so corrupt where it concerns God and not humanity (the ethics towards humans are fine) - theft is forgivable, r*pe is forgivable, murder is forgivable, but verbally insulting an aspect of God? Never to be forgiven.

>>13447685
I actually don't know if the Holy Spirit is an aspect of God. Some think that Christ is God, but Christ himself has said that he isn't. God is his father. They say it's the father, the son, and the Holy Spirit... if Christ was already God, wouldn't it be the 'Holy Binary' instead of the 'Holy Trinity'? Likewise, if the Holy Spirit was of God but not Christ, the same thing. I'm still trying to better understand what the Holy Spirit is, which is an odd thing because I'm pretty sure I've felt the Holy Spirit before. Possibly on two occasions in fact.

As for theft, rape, and murder, yes these things are egregious but people CAN improve, they can come back. There's stories of such people finding God, changing their ways, becoming a good and beneficial member of society, even getting married and having a family. If someone KNOW, deep down, that what they did was awful and wrong and SINCERELY never wants to do it again, know in their heart that they see the evil of their ways and wish to be rid of it, then they CAN come to be a good person. If they moved to a new city where nobody knew what they did and only knew the good things that he does, they would be happy to have him and he would be a benefit to this city. So... why wouldn't he be a benefit to whatever city he had been in before? He WOULD be a benefit, in spite of the terrible things he may have done, and that is why I think God forgives even theft/rape/murder PROVIDED the person prays for forgiveness and means it in their HEART that they never want to do such things again. People CAN come back from performing such evil.

So... why is it that blaspheming the Holy Spirit is unforgiveable? I have no idea, perhaps more reading of the Bible will provide an answer, but it can do such amazing things. Stephen Willeford in Texas says he felt the Holy Spirit in him when he got heard those shots coming from his local church, gabbed his rifle, loaded a mag, loaded the rifle, told his daughter stay home and load mags JUST to keep her home and out of danger, then headed out in his socks with his big white beard that he had been growing so as to be Santa for the upcoming Christmas, and gunned down the psycho who was killing his fellow Christians. He believes it was the Holy Spirit that had filled him when he went out and faced that danger to save lives. Now, was he right? I don't know, nobody TRULY knows I don't think, not in the Earthly realm anyways. Would the Holy Spirit summon a good man with an AR to gun down a bad man with an AR-type rifle? I don't know, it doesn't sound Christian but it certainly sounds Christian to save lives. The shooter had more firearms and ammo in his van, possibly explosives too, and there were apparently other churches nearby.

It can be difficult to understand, but there's a lot in life that's difficult to understand. Even consciousness is a huge mystery today with almost no understanding of it, possibly none at all, in spite of our amazing advances in science/tech.

>>13447042
How?

>>13446860
Good luck brother. Stop being a drunk so you can actually raise your kids.

>>13447318
Protestant. Stop being a faggot man, if you believe in Christ your a Christian some church can’t tell you what you are.

>>13446860
Fucking this brother.
14 words bro, Jesus was a white nationalist and the zogged media try to hide this.

>>13447318
All it takes to be a Christian is following Christ. If you believe in and love Christ, that is all that is required. All Christians have vices, whether they wish to admit that or not. The whole reason Christ died for us is because it is impossible to live a purely sinless life. Some people find this depressing, but I personally see it as a relief. The only time a vice would get in the way of faith is if you are hypocritical/judgmental, and putting your pride in being more "moral" than others before being humble towards god. You are already showing humility.

Not going to a formal church is fine. There's the debate on this, but it is more important to have a personal relationship with Christ and do your best to follow his teachings. Many church people have that pride problem I mentioned above, which is worse than not going. If you feel like you should pray more, I would start by just taking the time to thank God for what you have, not just to ask for good luck.

You absolutely have the right to call yourself a Christian if you feel that in your heart. I hope this helps!

>>13443809
As a Christian, I find this mentality very sad and disgusting. It misses the entire point of Christ's teachings. They are acting like the Pharisees, counting their tassels.I think they forget that being prideful and thinking you are morally superior is a horrid sin that Christ talked about constantly. I'm ashamed of my fellow Christians a lot, honestly.

>>13449178
It does help quite a bit actually. It seems that I may have been Christian all this time and not realised it. Throughout my life I’ve. come to the conclusion that hate is destructive and a bottomless well of endless misery. To love, I feel, is fulfilling. I aspire to love humanity as much as Jesus did as a result. That pride you mentioned is exactly what’s made me apprehensive about calling myself Christian, since so many Christians use the label to push hateful dogmas.

Yet I still don’t feel I’m worthy of calling myself a good Christian. I’ve done nothing extraordinary to improve another’s life. I give money to homeless people occasionally, I try to be supportive of my friends and I run errands for my family, but I have such low self-worth that it never feels like enough. I don’t want to die until I’ve done something to change the world for the better, otherwise my life will feel pointless. I love the world, but I have trouble loving myself.

I also don’t pray to God to thank him since I feel as though he knows how grateful I am to be alive because of his omniscience. I can’t help but feel as though I’m insulting him by telling him what he already knows.

>>13443423
Me as well. I was a Buddhist and underwent a number of religious experiences that I closed my eyes to because I assumed it was all just a product of overanalysis and delusion. I had to be brought to the edge of death to understand. I'm still on the path of understanding, and have found the most solace and understanding in the God of the Bible.

I did just finish reading the Old Testament for the first time only an hour or so ago, so perhaps that. Ezekiel, Daniel, Ecclesiastes, Job, and Nehemiah in particular.

>>13449566
How do you get a religious experience?

>>13449585
I wasn't seeking it, at least not directly. It's something bestowed to you when you're ready. I was on a vague spiritual journey wandering around South America when I was given most of them. The situations found me.

It's my contention that many and perhaps most don't receive distinct religious experiences because they're unnecessary. I was stubborn, and my experiences felt very much like God was giving me a much-needed slap across my face saying "hey moron, open your eyes for once."

>>13449467
The fact that you are so worried about helping people and still wanting to do more shows that you are a very good Christian. Not everyone is called to do "extraordinary" things. God has given all of us gifts, and we shouldn't compare our worth to those who seem to do more. Even just giving someone who seems upset a hug is a wonderful and good act. I am sorry to hear that you have trouble loving yourself. Of course you should put others first and be humble, but you need a balance too. God does not want you to be in pain.

Right now you remind me of the parable of the Pharisee and the Publican (tax collector). I think that story might help you understand, it is one of my favorites! Luke 18:9-14

I don't think you would be insulting God by telling him something he already knows. Sometimes there are people we know love us and care about us, but it is still nice to hear it from them. It is also nice for us to say it out loud when we love a person. Prayers don't have to be formal either. Even just occasionally thinking the little thought "thank you for my life" is enough.

>>13449467
>>13449676
Same person here, I'd like to add to my response that simple, loving acts ARE extraordinary. By saving/helping just one person, you have changed the world.

FUCK god
FUCK jesus
FUCK the holy spirit

>>13443395
commedia

This thread reminds me of Matthew 24:37

>>13444002
Good choice I've read this one and "Les povinciales" in french — but Im not Christians, just because B.Pascal is considered as one of the best french writer known.

>>13449826
Les provinciales*

I unironically started with the Greeks.

>>13443395
None.
I got close when I realized how evil the the things the opposition preached really were and how quite a lot of the old teachings were just.
And then I interacted with Christians and realized they believe a lot of those evil things they claim not to and are also one of the big driving forces next to the fake "secular" opposition in trying to destroy my people and my country to fill their pews with ever more and more outsiders and decided not to trust them again in my lifetime.

>>13447685
It's my understanding that blaspheming the Spirit is not so much verbally insulting it, but rejecting it even after receiving continual witness of the truth by it.
If someone were to close themselves off from God, even after receiving the Spirit and knowing what he does is sin, then he blasphemes the Holy Spirit, which is the Spirit of Truth, for he rejects the salvation offered him and in effect walks into Hell of his own volition.
If you still harbor a secret thought that the Gospel may be true, or you feel guilt for your sins and wish to be healed of them, you have not blasphemed the Spirit, for you are still open to its truth. Those who know of God's plan for creation and deliberately oppose it, or those who have witness of the wrongness of their sins yet persist in them and refuse to atone, commit the unpardonable sin - the sin of refusing to let God pardon you.

>>13443395
Confessions and City of God.

>>13443434
>snot nosed retard kid voice

>>13449907
This.
I could never be a Christcuck because they're literally all genocidal anti-nativist and two-faced as fuck about it to boot.
>n-no anon we're very traditional, patriotic and family-centered and stuff
>but you're satan reborn if you don't want more refugees, muslim immigrants or christian immigrants to come and live off taxpayer money in our highly taxed welfare state
>why do you care if your kids have to grow up in violent third-worlder schools?!
This doesn't stop at liberal denominations either.
You can go join up with the local equivalent of the SSPX and they'll tell you that more rapefugees = the highest good.
Same thing goes for chan christians, the other terrible chan pretended to be sympathetic to it and then started badgering people for "racial idolatry" and similar weasel words.

They're simply evil fucks with ulterior motives and if their god isn't he certainly wouldn't give these scumbags any grace.

>>13449738
But are these good acts really extraordinary? Obviously a single good deed can have far reaching positive consequences, but does this fundamentally improve a person's life? Let's say you give a homeless person a dollar. It's a generous gift to them, of course, but a dollar alone can't take that person very far.

I don't feel as if I'm doing something special when I do a good deed and it makes me feel like a fundamentally useless person.

>>13450167
Who knows what sort of impact that one good deed will have though? Don't worry about if it is special enough, just worry about doing good rather than doing nothing. Not everyone is meant to cure disease or build artificial limbs or what have you. I would focus on the gifts God has given you, and use that to help.

>>13443395
Man and His Symbols by Carl Jung and pals and Myths to Live By by Joseph Campbell.

>>13443434
Psychological phenomena are religious phenomena.

>>13450213
Lol all you're doing when you give homeless a dollar is pay for their mad dog 20/20 or steel reserve

>>13450217
this is an actual answer.

>>13450115
American Christianity is kind of in a sickly state. It has suffered a great deal from attempting to exist within the most wealthy and violent nation to have existed.

All American Christians struggle as individuals and churches to maintain faithful witness to Christian life while being subjected to intense pressure from nationalism, capitalism and secular culture.

Read Stanley Hauerwas.

>>13450232
I'm not American and they act exactly the same here in our ultra-peaceful nation. (well ultra-peaceful until they and their supposed opposition decided that us natives ought to be replaced through demographic warfare)
They have no excuse.
They're just evil people at heart.

>>13450266
No they're not.
Any religion that takes this many people has a number of bad weeds in their terminology.
And especially a religion that can be interpreted as saying they are better than everyone else and get to smugly watch them suffer eternally for not being them.
It's why you see so many of the worst, most violent hateful and evil people on 4chan orbit to Christian though.
Certainly there are good Christians here though

>>13450289
>No they're not.
Yes they are.
>Any religion that takes this many people has a number of bad weeds in their terminology.
And they're led by them and let themselves be lead by them.
>Certainly there are good Christians here though
Perhaps personally.
Doesn't change the fact that they support an organization actively working to destroy me and mine.
I feel no more human fellowship and spiritual kindred with them as a group than a jew does the more honorable and just nazi party members.

>>13443395
Hahaha outgrow atheism as if atheism was the default cultural norm. Christians really are delusional.

>>13449960
if no one questioned their experiences they wouldn’t be truly christian

>>13450304
Athiesm is the metal of ideologies and most healthy adults do grow out of both.

I can totally accept a Spinozan pantheism or similar illustrations of God as some sort of vague omnipresent essence. Christians on this board won't be able to provide anything beyond this and can only resort to Pascalian "its maths luv" and larper shit like oh read the Bible. It seems to me that some humans simply have a propensity for religious experience and westerners typically can only articulate this in terms of their Abrahamic vocabulary of the Divine.
I've had many religious experiences and have experimented with psychedelics with the purpose of exploring this concept and one of the biggest takeaways for me is that these experiences that William James describes can absolutely be rendered in whatever notion of God you are predisposed to. Larpers who believe in the primacy and absolute nature of Yahweh as the exclusive source of religious experience are blind to their own bias.

>>13443664

>>13450365
Jung helped me in coming to terms with what I experienced on psychedelics. I experienced multiple mythological archetypes. His work also helped me interpret my dreams and I agree with his rejection of experience alone being formative like Freud said and believe that we have far more atavistic internalities than what Freud tried so hard to make dogma. Jung is right in saying truth doesn't need to be dogma because it stands on it's own. Dogma is like the cables that support the tower of pisa.

>>13443466
Mere Christianity is one of the worst books I've ever read. I like some of his other books, but Mere Christianity is a real shit smear.

>>13450365
Have you considered putting down the silly ideas about God and grasping some truth?

>>13450391
Or could it be that Jung provides a convenient and seemingly cohesive way of understanding your psychedelic experiences? I haven't read Jung so I don't know about mythological archetypes and atavistic internalities so I don't know if I can adequately respond to this.

>>13450429
I am more aligned with you. After all, Spinoza's was God or Nature. My metaphysics is more like a Zen hollowing of this Nature.

>>13447044
It was written by a wayward group of Mesopotamians you dunce. Abraham is agreed to have been born in Ur.

>>13450224
And? You're still giving them the means to help themselves. Helping someone doesn't equal babying them. In fact, it's quite the opposite.

>>13443395
I'm not Christian nor interested in becoming one, but I've decided to visit a few Churches in the days coming. Scouted some local ones online and will be visiting them tomorrow and the weekend. I want to see if they provide a spiritually nourishing environment for me to regularly spend time in. Hopefully one of them will be nice enough for me to attend weekly, and hopefully they'll be kind enough to let someone who doesn't believe their faith join them in their gatherings.

Be kind to all.

>>13443771

>>13450582
not very christian repsonse

>>13450381
>I want to 'feel good' about myself as I am and not feel the discomfort of falling short
kek, this is so true. it is literally describing sin, missing the mark. atheists wish Jesus had never existed because if he did then their entire personality is at odds with the creator and they don't have the intellectual balls for that.

>>13443395
>What books helped you outgrow atheism and find God?
I read a bunch of Horror Novels. Then I realized that one day too I will inevitably die. That scared me quite a bit. So instead of coming to terms with my own mortality and embracing this life to the fullest without regret I instead retreated into the domain of fantasy where I never have to die as long as I profess my never ending devotion to a long dead heretical Rabbi who started a racially supremacist cult of personality 2000+ years ago before being killed by an unholy alliance between gentiles and his own tribesman. It's really worked out great for me, especially the part where I get to look down on others with different beliefs and outlooks than myself. Deus Vult lel, Fedora Tippers BTFO 4 eva.

>>13450599
>the creator
And what was that creators purpose? As it stands, the only purpose of creation is to reach destruction, or conversely to fight destruction in face of the inevitable heat death of the universe.

>>13450640
>And what was that creators purpose?
Not your concern. But if you really want the answer to this question, read the Bible.

>>13450477
Read Man and his Symbols. No, because dreams and hallucinations are the individual myth. Myth is more of a collective dream. My most profound experience was of the world as illusion, my ego death, my return to the void and acceptance of nonbeing, and my awaiting rebirth.

>>13443395
Franny and Zooey. It had great impact on me when I read it in high school because it was the first time I was exposed to disciplined spirituality and its transformative effects. Plus it had a little bit of everything in it ya know

>>13450704
It is my concern, because as it stands the creator has set us, humanity, towards our own path of destruction when the accelerating auto-sophistication of technology causes a runaway effect of AI, rendering humanity obsolete and ending in our destruction.

>>13444888
Imagine having to write a paragraph in metaphors to explain your dumb ass world view that doesn't hold up to reality

>>13443477
Kick the liquor and talk to everyone about god, you can do it

>>13444176

>>13443477
Please be strong, He loves you very much.

>>13444888
I still don't understand what metaphysics is.

>>13448791
Jesus was a Jew along with all his Apostles, and there's nothing wrong with that. Christianity grew out of Judaism, thus the term 'Judeo-Christian values'. Some people think this is a nonsense term, that there's no connection between Christianity and Judaism. The same people seem to tend to believe the conspiracy that the Jews rule the world and start/end wars at their leisure when it suits them. I hope you're not one of those individuals.

>>13448784
I'll have control over my drinking again. I may very well be moving into a one-bedroom apartment by the month's end, we'll see. Merely gaining distance between myself and that 'Liberal' atheist will do me wonders. I could actually have a home that I'm not ashamed of inviting friends over to.

>>13451455
That may very well end up being the case, we'll see. I mean the 'talk to everyone about God' bit, not the 'kick the liquor' bit, since quite frankly I REALLY enjoy getting drunk and probably will never want to stop. We'll see, though chances are once I get my own place without room mates, get a woman, and get on track to having a family... yeah, I'll have far more meaningful things to spend my time on than drinking.

>>13451737
He loves you too. God bless.

Is anyone else scared not only of potentially going to Hell, but also of other people going to Hell?

I have some hedonistic vices that I'm unwilling to give up because they comfort me after a day's work and that makes me fear that I'm not worthy of Heaven. On top of that, I know others with similar vices to me who are good people, but are indifferent to God. I don't want these people to suffer for this because I know that they're not trying to harm anyone and are just trying to be happy. On top of that, I feel as though vices my are a trial from God, and that by simply accepting that I have some hedonistic tendencies rather than rejecting them that I fear I might be a bad Christian.

the divine comedy
>start browsing /lit/
>atheist
>had only read shitty books
>discover the divine comedy
>jump into it, don't know who homer is, who virgil is, don't know shit about anything. Still I loved reading it, have always liked religions/mysticism
>become agnostic after reading it, start questioning my beliefs
>start learning more and more about the references
>the divine comedy alone made me want to get serious with literature and start reading philosophy
>start with the greeks
>read a good amount of classics
>read the bible
>become christian
pictured, made by me

>>13443395
>theism vs. atheism
>>13450429
Now that's more like it.

>didn't read about Dantes contemporaries who get mentioned every other line
You're still small brained op

>>13452728
DC is literal fanfiction and a critique of the politics of the time. You fell for the meme

>>13452776
Yes, I fell for the meme. It's a fanfiction with no literary merit, completely void of meaning and of beauty.

>>13452788
Exactly

>>13452506
>quite frankly I REALLY enjoy getting drunk and probably will never want to stop
Yes, that's how addiction works.

>>13452242
Same thing as physics, except without grounding in observable phenomena. Circlejerking about how the universe works.

>>13452843
When I say 'never want to stop', I meant entirely. I figure, at minimum, I'll always get drunk at least on the weekend. It'd be good if I could be sober every weekday (outside of special occasions like birthdays or holidays) and perhaps Sunday. I'm aware, however, that drinking to intoxication is a sin. Says such in the New Testament. I also believe it to be factually true. Sin is an ancient archery term, it means to miss the mark, and we all miss the mark in some way or another and thus we're all sinners because nobody is perfect. To sin means to do something that isn't ideal.

So, what is it to get drunk? It spends money, it harms health to a degree, it could cause you to be VERY unproductive and far less coordinated in the morning afterwards, and also because it diminishes inhibitions you're more likely to do or say something stupid. Something like 50% of people who murder are drunk, and roughly 50% of the people who GET murdered are drunk. That's pretty damning statistics... excessive alcohol DOES increase the likelihood of crime. That's not good. Even if the night goes great though, you spend it with friends, have LOTS of fun, and after the drinking of booze you drink water and have something good to eat so that come morning you're not doing too bad, nothing embarrassing or hurtful was done or said (beyond the modest damage to one's health)... how could that time have been spent differently?

When I drink, I go all-out. I typically start at 3:30-4PM, drinking a half-ounce of 75% rum (watered down with a splash of lemon juice and an ice cube to chill the shot) every 15 minutes. I also record each shot by writing down the minute at which I drank it, giving a precise recount of the night's drinking for the next day so that I always know. It annoyed me to awaken the next day and not remember how much I drank. Typically, I'm lights-out by 10-11PM, on some occasions I pass out a bit earlier, other times I last to midnight or 1AM. That's 6-10 hours. I could spend that studying or researching. Could spend it writing. Could spend it by going to a coffee shop in the late afternoon or evening to see if I can find a conversation, or Hell, only have a handful of beer at a pub and have some chats there. Hear some stories, perhaps even talk about things bothering us. I could go volunteer somewhere, and the next morning I'll be fit as a fiddle!

Thus, even if all goes well, getting drunk is inherently a sin because your time/money/energy/health could be put towards something better. Imagine, instead of getting drunk on $18-20 of rum, I hand $18-20 to a panhandler on the street. The affect it'd have on them, and if I didn't drink I could do that several times per week. What a waste... but hey... it makes me 'happy' and I have 'fun'. Pretty pathetic to think about, but it's where I am in life right now.

>>13453238
I feel that we need to reward ourselves sometimes in order to unwind from the pressures life puts on us. I think the true sin of drunkeness only really manifests itself when it leads to idleness. While I don't drink often, I'm a porn addict, so I sort of relate to your dependancy on something.

To me, that dependancy doesn't mean I need it all the time, but I enjoy it and will often opt for it as a leisure activity. Like you, I feel guilt sometimes because I feel as though I could have done something more productive instead, but then I realise that I'm not unproductive in every waking moment of my life, so I'm not indulging in this sin at anyone's expense. To be decadent in moderation seems like a far lesser sin than having these indulgences control your life IMO.

I don't know what advise to give you since I'm struggling to find answers myself (as I outlined here >>13452711), but I thought you'd want to know you're not alone in struggling with sin and vice.

>>13453391
That's what Sundays were supposed to be for. Even God had to rest on the 7th day, who thinks they're more powerful than God? There's not many people out there who can just work-and-work-and-work, such people who basically obsessively throw ALL their time into work are the ones who typically end up as CEOs, leaders of vast companies that hire lots and lots of people and produce lots and lots of wealth. If someone at the top of a hierarchy starts to fall back on their laurels, to 'kick back in their office and smoke a cigar with a nice glass of whiskey or wine' (as leftists seem to view the wealthy), then there's someone directly under them all too happy to out-work him and take his place. There's even some people who will buy a more powerful microwave because it can heat up whatever expedient breakfast item they're taking on the go just a little bit faster.

Most people, if they work to the point every single day that they have to scrutinize every damn minute, would work themselves to death. How Tim Pool does it, I have no idea, but it seems to have cost him his hair. I'm joking, somewhat, but anyhow, I can see value in taking one day off every week. To rest, do some reading, reflect on how things have been going, tend to family and friendships, perhaps to a relationship, etc.

I don't think it does any good to try and excuse it. It's still sin, it's still missing the mark. Be thankful that Christ died for our sins and that if we ask forgiveness, and mean it, then it will be granted. At least it doesn't negatively affect others, in theory... no, that's not true. The time spent sinning could have gone towards directly helping someone, someone who didn't receive that help because of the sin. Yikes, that's unfortunate. Well, we're not Christ, and as such we're not perfect. EVERYONE sins to some degree but that doesn't mean EVERYONE is damned to Hell. I suspect there's a sort of 'hierarchy of sins', with some being worse than others. Those who don't cause direct harm to anyone else is probably the ones at the bottom, the 'lesser sins'. Functional alcoholism, masturbation, gluttony, lack of courage, choosing to walk down a certain street strictly because you don't want to have to deal with any pan-handlers even though you could afford to give some change, etc. Of all those, I think I'd consider the last one the worst, but even then it's FAR from murder or rape or theft. We don't even necessarily have to do more good in the world to receive forgiveness; as long as you repent, and you mean it from the heart, you're saved. Still, people should strive to do good when they can. EARN the mercy of God, even if it will be shown regardless if you merely repent from the heart and truly mean it. It's no wonder that they refer to it as 'The Good News'.

>>13453735
I wouldn’t attempt to excuse it. It’s just that especially when you have longer term goals (especially if they’re goals that you hope will put you in a position to do good), smaller acts of kindness are ones that are easier to forget. I walk past a lot of beggars and often I don’t give them anything. Am I proud of this? No, but I have only so much money in my pocket, I never know when I’ll need some spare change and if I’m in a rush, there’s little time to stop. Only when I’m not in a hurry will I give money to them. The reason I’m so busy is because I’m focusing on my studies to try and secure a better future for myself. In prayer, I said to God that the reason I’m doing this is so I can put myself in a position influential enough that I can then focus on giving back to the world. As much as we can criticise these rich CEOs, their wealth could solve world hunger if they had the heart to be charitable.

That’s why I work myself to the point where my family has to tell me to take a break. Which is why I have to find these hedonistic outlets just to de-stress.

In all honesty, as much as I love the world God has made, I hate myself and anti-social I am externally. I won’t consider my life worthwhile untilI I feel valued as a person by others and until I know I’ve contributed significantly to someone else’s happiness. Part of me is hoping I can repent for my own sins by leaving a significant mark on the world and making people smile for generations to come. I don’t understand how I can be so vain and self-loathing at the same time, but that’s how it is.

>>13451327
>because as it stands the creator has set us, humanity, towards our own path of destruction
*salvation

>the accelerating auto-sophistication of technology causes a runaway effect of AI, rendering humanity obsolete
God gave us the Bible. What you're describing is 100% man's doing. Learn to think more carefully.

>>13453735
I think you're focusing too much on work in your post, and unless your job is in directly service of others, it should not be the focus of your life, and working to get more money than you need is falling into the sin of greed.

Overall I think you're missing the point when thinking about sin. You're worrying about the big, general things of sin in Christianity. You need to worry about right now. In what ways can you avoid sin and avoid what leads you to sin, right now? The life with Christ is hard. You should try very hard to give up drinking because that seems like the most prominent vice in your life. Then you slowly go through your life, with contemplative prayer both on yourself and God, and you slowly develop a further love of God, lived out in a holy life.

The hierarchy of sins is somewhat correct,in that you are right in the existence of a hierarchy. There are some details with your list that are wrong though, and that you should think about. First, the biggest sin of all, and the sin which leads to all others, is the sin of pride. It's the sin of Adam, where you decide that you are more wise than God, and decide to do what you seem best. Being prideful blinds you to the truth, which is quite spiritually dangerous. Further, I think you miss the gravity of some of the sins you list. Gluttony and masturbation can both be very dangerous sins, because they corrupt the natural order of God's creation and lead to self-indulgence. This self indulgence can quickly lead to forgetting God. Further, functional alcoholism can be quite sinful, because it's first a cycle of sin, and second it could lead you to forget yourself in pride and gluttony. I have a few recommendations -pray more, and first try to make God the focus of your life. Pray first for a higher love of God, and second for freedom from and repentance for your sins.

A few reading recommendations are: The Ladder of Divine Ascent by John climacus, introduction to the devout life by St. Francis de Sales, sayings of the desert fathers, and the Bible. If you want a consistent definition of sin and clear teachings for advancement in the spiritual life, become Catholic or orthodox. I'm Catholic. Further, as to one's salvation, I quote Jesus: "Not everyone who says to me Lord, Lord, is saved, but only the one who does the will of my father who is in heaven. "

We are saved through faith in Christ, which we must live out.

>>13443409
This
abrahamic religions are poisonous for the soul
they make you believe you come out of nothing and then live eternally

>>13450429
>solves the Tao
nothing personal kid

>>13447044
Whose they? The same guys who rewrote Zeus a few dozen times and sold it to white savages as something to talk about over the drinking fire?
>>13447652
Yeah. A story that has been analyzed to every single curve of the letter thousands of years is less than something someone said somewhere that got stitched by a Christian monk and got made into a Marvel movie a few times.

>>13453955
Based fire man

>>13453864
Wealthy people often have the heart to be charitable, at least if they're Republican/Conservative. Not so much if they're Democrat/Liberal. It's kind of the same concept, I think; "I'll keep my money now to try and sway politics and obtain power, then we can increase taxes and redirect more of it to the vulnerable. Instead of giving thousands of dollars or even millions of dollars, it could be BILLIONS! PLUS if they did it via taxation, it would be less overall cost to them because it's more spread out. Instead of giving millions personally, it would only be thousands. Or instead of being thousands, it can be hundreds.

I'm getting an education too, and money is often tight, but I have always been pretty good with what money I got, I'm usually good at being able to extend it and make it last. I'm also making pretty decent money from writing and so I do find that there's periods of time where I could have a few hundred dollars on me at all times. Even now, I'm expecting money at the middle of the month but JUST in case I don't get it, I've already done the math to see what my prospects are for the rest of July and I've found that even if I don't get that money, I can still scrape by, AND I've been getting quite a few sober days in (by my standards of the past few months) as well as been managing to find ways to not have to spend my money, or at least not as much and not immediately, so with the present trend it looks like I'll end up with a bit of extra money when I get the amount I'm anticipating at the beginning of August. Thus, I know, I can afford to give a guy a single dollar. It's also so rare that I interact with them that even if I give two guys a dollar, it still won't be enough to risk my status in early August. There's also the fact that I've been in a situation of asking people for a dollar or two and so I know the impact it can have. Even just that one dollar.

Oh, and in regards to the fact that Republicans donate more than Democrats, there's also the likely fact that Republicans are more likely to be Christian, which is a religion that has within it an inherent element of generosity.

If you're over-working yourself even with the hedonistic 'outlet', perhaps the issue is that you need to take more time from your work. Like I mentioned; the Sunday thing. Even God had to take a day off after 6 days of creating the Earth. Perhaps if you eased up on yourself a bit, you wouldn't be so wound-up that you end up sinning just to try and deal with it.

Seems like a strange conundrum. Desire for widespread and multi-generational approval for having done monumental good, but feeling self-loathing because you're not reaching the standard you've set yourself. If what you are allegedly working so heavily on that it stresses you out isn't giving you a fix of that 'happy chemical' in the brain that tends to be released when working on something meaningful, perhaps whatever education you're getting isn't what you need to study.

>>13453874
You may not be able to realize it, but the purpose of this universe is to select for means of higher forms of entropy. The universe before we know it today was originally in perfect harmony with itself until entropy first occurred (i.e. big bang, or whatever physical concept you believe). As time has moved linearly, the universe has selected ever more carefully for more complex forms of entropy. Now from the basics of stars, to planets, to rocks, to first carbon lifeforms, to complex life, to apes, to humans, and soon to be AI machine technology.

Life, as we know it, is in the hands of chaos and we will never be able to avoid that. The Messiah of Jesus was the universe selecting for those who would be peaceful in order that may set aside conflict, temporarily, so that we may improve our standards of living. Thereby, this process of self-improvement and lack of conflict has almost assuredly given us the ability to replace ourselves. It is inevitable.

The Christian god is dead, and will remain dead for eternity. The new god of science reigns supreme, as our universe becomes completely topologized and removes all forms of the supernatural from our conscious beliefs.

>>13453955
???
Tao is literaly universal flux

>>13455337
Seriously Heraclitus is western Taoism, the unity of opposites is literally the main theme of Taoist doctrines

>>13453919
Why should your job be in direct service of others? You don't think Bill Gates has DIRECTLY serviced and improved MILLIONS if not BILLIONS of people's lives from his technological/commercial advances? Who has directly serviced more people? A doctor, or the individuals who are advancing medical technology so that doctors EVERYWHERE have better equipment/knowledge? Who's servicing more people? The person behind the counter who sells someone a $2 bottle of tasty beverage, or the people running the huge factories who invest in (pay) engineers and scientists to figure out more efficient ways to produce the tasty beverage so that it's that cheap and perhaps can even get cheaper in relation to inflation when without them the same tasty beverage would not be produced at such speed and quantity that it would be $5 thus far fewer people could afford/enjoy them? If you have a talent, and you work like mad at it so that you perfect it and make a TON of money with it, the FACT you got that money MEANS you're servicing people because they want what you can offer thus they hand over their hard-earned money FOR whatever it is that you offer. The fact that J K Rowling and Stephen King make more money than I do means that their writing is directly improving the lives of more people than my books are. There is nothing inherently sinful in making more money than you need. Even SAVING more money than they need isn't INHERENTLY sinful because even in a bank, banks give loans to struggling people who have good ideas for a business. Even without intending on it, keeping money in a bank is still doing good. Now, just stuffing it in a mattress or safe? I may consider that a bit more sinful, especially if it's more money than they need (nothing wrong with protecting money that is needed), and PARTICULARLY if they're just so damn spiteful and malicious that they want to keep it out of a bank BECAUSE they don't want anyone to benefit from their money but themself. Tax invasion is another element of that; play the game right, the same game as everyone else.

I only have partial control in my drinking, and I do perceive it as an issue of faith because if I had more faith, I could trust in God more, and when I give complete trust into God and pray to not drink that day, GENERALLY it works. Yesterday was the first time that it didn't, and I've been doing it regularly for months, and I knew it was an issue with my own willpower and not because of lack of help from God. I need to open the door, but sometimes the stress is so potent because of my living situation that I don't WANT to 'not drink'. My willpower is getting in the way, my FREE will which I have some control over but not total control. So, I need to improve my control over my willpower. How? Less stress. How? Move out. Okay, and now I am waiting to see if I get money in the middle of the month so that I'll have a rough idea of if I'll be able to move out by the end of the month or early August.

>>13455337
He calls it Nature or Logos

>>13455365
I think I phrased my point badly. We should all work hard at our jobs, but unless our job is directly assisting those who need it, grinding extra hours and working harder is not an act of service. Many people have jobs that don't really matter that much for the good of society, and while they should do their best at what is required of them, it is generally not helpful in one's spiritual life to do much more than that. Even in your example of someone who works on medical equipment, it is then easy to see how their work directly impacts society, so it could be a form of service to others.

It's not a sin to live comfortably. It IS a sin, the sin of greed, to seek to make money for it's own sake. After a point, where you have enough money to provide for yourself, your children, and your children's children, the work one does for amassing more money and things for their own sake is going to be an enormous distraction in the spiritual life. It's not wrong to make money, but at that point one should be donating most of their money or using it in a way with a positive impact. I think we actually agree here, but using well-known wealthy people probably isn't a great example because we have very few people that live a good Christian life in today's society. Remember Luke 21:1-4.

Most of this is abstract stuff that we don't need to worry about. The choice for living a Christly life is made right now. If you haven't read it, I also recommend reading The Screwtape Letters by CS Lewis, which does a good job of describing how we are tempted. The MOST important thing from that book, I would say, is that the best prayers we can make are for the daily and hourly grace to meet the daily and hourly temptations.

I mean no offense in my comment towards drinking. I can't help you in any way besides praying for you, which I will do. Please look into the books I mentioned, and if you had to read only two of them, I would say to read The Screwtape Letters and Sayings of the Desert Fathers.

>>13455274
You've summed up my conundrum better than I could have said it myself. I'm in a position where I'm having to debate whether dabbling in sin to keep myself mentally stable in the short term is worth it if my long term goal is to attempt to do good. The Bible makes no comment on that as far as I know. The assumption seems to be the sinner has no goal but their sin.

I'm enjoying my studies because I'm the kind of person who enjoys learning for the sake of learning. I was the top of my class last year, and some of my professors say I'm a candidate for a first class degree when I graduate next year. That puts the option of postgrad studies on the table, but I'm uncertain if I want to go down that route.

The reason I say that is that I already feel isolated from the rest of humanity because of my introverted nature and because I never seek out social affairs because I'm too preoccupied with my studies. If I were to get a high status job, I would be surrounded by more soullessness when the very thing I want from life is soul. My dream is to just live a simple life in the country and settle down with a woman with a good head on her shoulders whom I can be a good husband to. Political beliefs, wealth and everything like it are irrelevant to me. I just want to love and be loved. That's why I admire Christ, as he loved people even though people never understood him and placed no authority before God and love. What friends I do have are all talking about what they want to do with their lives, and yet I have nothing but a vaguely defined desire to do good and this dream of being a humble family man.

My aimless life just feels like a trainwreck waiting to happen and I feel unworthy of anyone's love because I've done nothing life changing for them.

>>13443461
>greek philosophy is only plato

>>13444176
You conflate anglo-germanic menace that is p*otedtantism as broad christianity as whole.

>>13456168
based

>>13455600
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree, because I think that anyone who takes their talents and does the most with them in a lawful manner are inherently servicing the community. Bill Gates, the late Steve Jobs, Jeff Bezos (though sadly it seems he's apparently been unfaithful to his wife and so will likely be losing a HUGE amount of his earnings soon in divorce rendering Bill Gates once again the richest man in the world), people who run factories or manufacturing plants, and so on. Even in leaving the money in the bank, it is of benefit, but I suspect that most Christian rich people (and to my understanding, in the West, most rich people are indeed Christian, which makes sense because in the West most people ARE Christian) donate a fair bit to causes they care about. So even if their occupation doesn't directly help others, only indirectly, they still have the opportunity for directly impacting others.

Looks like we have a different view on making money too, because statistics bear out that once you're making enough money to keep the bill collectors at bay, meaning you're self-sustaining and accruing no debt, more money doesn't actually make you more happy. That said, I believe it's understandable for well-to-do people to want to continue to improve themselves. Maybe a better home, a new vehicle, they want to go on a vacation and thus need to save up, etc. Do they NEED it? Probably not, but did they earn it? Of course, provided they're making the money legally and fairly. When Jesus was reprimanded for having expensive oils used on him after a hard day, that it could have been sold with the money given to the poor, he said that there will always be a poor, there's no changing that. Enjoy what you've got. There's also the old saying "don't muzzle the ox while it treadeth out the corn." Selflessness is a fantastic thing, but that doesn't mean that it's wrong to enjoy what you've earned providing you're still giving in proportion to what you make. As for Luke 21:1-4, there is no reference to what the others had given, but yes, if she had given all she has even if it's two tiny coins, it is a larger amount than anyone who gave more but in lesser proportion to what they own.

There's an inconsistency here though. You say that people who have enough money should give rather than saving more to improve themselves. Who decides what is 'enough'? Yes you're a student, and well, I'm not at the MOMENT but 2.5 months ago I was, and God willing, I will be again in 2 months. Right now, I'm on welfare, but I still give money even though by Western standards I am among the poorest out there. You may very well have more money than me, but you've given excuses that are non-economical and as I recall more convenience-based. That if you're 'not in a rush' or 'not in a hurry'. If it has nothing to do with how much money you have, then you have enough to give, but you simply choose not to. No offence, but it smells somewhat of hypocrisy.

>>13455884
"... because I've done nothing life-changing for them."
I think you're setting your sights too high. You want to save and amass so that when you do give, you can give hundreds, or thousands, or millions, meanwhile people just asking for a dollar are often left to go without. I think it'd help to look more on an individual basis rather than as a group basis, and to see the significance in small actions. A thought I had as a teen, and a thought that I think is worth thinking, is that there isn't just one world. There's over 7 billion at the moment, over 6 billion when I initially had the thought. If you brighten up one person's life, for even just a moment, for that moment you made the world a brighter, more pleasant, and less dreary place.

A smile, receiving thanks for a compliment or a show of modest generosity, given appreciation for physically helping someone out with something that's perhaps heavy or is quite large and unwieldy on a windy day, etc. You brighten up the whole world in someone's eyes when you do that, and I do it pretty much as regularly as I can manage because I like to see that happiness and appreciation. To exchange a 'God bless you' with someone on the street just for putting a loonie ($1 Canadian coin) in someone's Tim Horton's coffee cup. Like that Luke verse you quoted; Christ said that she had given more with those two small coins (the smallest of Jewish coins) because it was all she had, than those who gave several times that but still had much more left over. Also, the passage doesn't say that the more modest amounts are sinful, merely that she had given more than the others even though it was almost nothing, like a couple pennies.