/lit/ - Literature

>>13430770
1000 instagram thots are better than 1 kim kardashian. If instagram destroys the Hollywood cult of personality and distributes the worth of the ultra-wealthy among e-celebs who become only moderately wealthy the world is a better place. No more household names. No more superstars. Belle Delphine is unironically fixing capitalism.

>>13430770
Industrial Society and its Future

>>13430770
I don't know if you'll find any. But maybe you'll get more out of humanist Marxism, which talks about why capitalism is bad because it alienates us from our own human essence. You might like that better than the usual socialist stuff if that's not for you. The place to start would be the Economic and Philosophic Manuscripts of 1844.

Mein Kampf

>>13430780
Based

Unironically Adam Smith. Nobody hates capitalism more than capitalists, it's just that there's nothing better.

I'm super gassy today m8s.

>>13430770
>trading currency for goods and services sucks
>private property sucks

>>13430917
>caring about items

>>13430770
Read Hitler, Mussolini, Oswald Mosley, Giovanni Gentile, Evola.

>>13430770
first capitalism=human rights= love of bourgeois

second capitalism cannot be destroyed because it commodities any doctrine, capitalism included.

*sip* Ahhh now thats good drinkin'

>>13430807
Are you a lady?

>>13430924
>he thinks items are private and not personal property
>he doesnt know what private property is
Gross.

>>13430770
i think you criticize the buyer(consumer) and not the system itself.
are there any books criticising the culture of consumption (that aren't too lefty economically)?
i myself am pro-market, but i value culture above profit.

>>13430961
Nibba, this "system" has a name - Mesolimbic Dopaminergic System. You can criticize it all you want.

capitalism, by definition: the rich (capital owners) get richer (invest their capital.)

this is a perpetual state of fucking over anyone who wasn't born to a wealthy daddy and mommy. it's anti-meritocratic. you have incredibly smart, hardworking people who spend their entire life getting shat on while some retarded mediocre shitbag is born into wealth and never has to work a day in their life.

the ONLY people who defend c*pitalism are the wealthy and "temporarily embarrassed millionaires" aka coolaid-drinking american megalomaniacs. what sounds better to you? "the guy who is the best [x] gets the job" or "the guy who knows the right people and watching the same tv shows as the interviewers gets the job"? hard think there. guess which one we have now. capitalism is fundamentally fucked, it by design devolves to oligarchy and serfdom. gommunism sucks because it's anti-meritocratic, equality of outcome, and dysgenic.

meritocracy is your answer. and we will NEVER have it.

now incels are commies too? LMAOOO

Our entire generation should read this one.

>>13430998
bruv by system i meant capitalism if you'renot shitposting

>>13431011
Dude, Jesus is the answer.

>>13431038
is jeebus gonna pay my rent, mouthbreather?
>dude dont find the unfair system lol just allow yourself and your kids to be poor and destitute forever lmao
>uh.... yeah bro when you die jeebus will, uh...reward you...xDDD
fuck off retard

>>13431036
If you think that under actual unironical totalitatian socialism people don't behave like consumerest whores, you're grossly mistaken. Soviet youth would pay half of their annual salaries for foreign-made jeans and a monthly salary for American pop music vinyl.

>>13431016

Really gay book about a depressed loser projecting his own faggotry with no understanding of what he's talking about

>>13430935
Fascism is hardcore capitalism

>>13430770
>capitalism sucks
>that aren't commie/socialist propaganda
this is your brain on western civilization

communists don't arbitrarily decide that communism is great and then retroactively incorporate criticisms of capitalism into their worldview because they see it as a dishonest opportunity way to validate their world view. They start at a critique of capitalism and realize communism is the only answer. If your goal is to dismantle capitalism you have to have something to replace it with.

>>13430938
very silly boy

>>13430961
>i myself am pro-market, but i value culture above profit.
thats like saying you're pro being locked in cage with hungry tigers but you put your health above being eaten by tigers

>>13430770
Rerum Novarum by Pope Leo XIII
Laudato Si by Pope Francis

>>13431066
>communists don't arbitrarily decide that communism is great and then retroactively incorporate criticisms of capitalism into their worldview because they see it as a dishonest opportunity way to validate their world view
That's exactly what they did. Socialist ideology predates Marx and every other pseudo-scientific criticism of the "capitalism".

>>13431084
No

>>13430946
Fuck the word mukbang and fuck thumbnail clickbait. High definition audio was a mistake. If I have to hear a slurp or a smack of lips I’m going to burn this world to the ground. I hate it. FUCK PEOPLES TONGUES AND THEIR AWARENESS OF BEING RECORDED CHANGING HOW THEY SPEAK. REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE FUCKFUCKFUCK I HATE PEOPLE WITHOUT ANY SORT OF AUDIO ENGINEERING QUALIFICATION YOU STUPID FUCKING FAGGOTS

>>13430770
Capitalism is simply a tool, no better or worse than the man (or for that matter, woman) using it. It was Marx who oversimplified & reduced the complexity of our system of productive enterprise down to just one factor: money, capital.

>>13430770
Instagram and Twitter and Youtube and Twitch are literally redistribution of power (ability to command an audience and communicate with them freely). The internet is socialism and Belle Delphine profiting off her Instagram page is power taken away from the establishment and returned to the people.

also Arthur Kitson
lots of his works are on archive.org (links on the wiki)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Kitson

>>13430770
das kapital obviously

>>13430807
what did you eat?

>>13431045
He can pay your rent a d help your family, you just haven't tried.

>>13431062

>>13431054
i know, i'm russian myself. i meant that op thinks he hates capitalism when in fact he hates the consumerist nature of some people (ahem, the majority of them) - which, as you say, is present under any regime
capitalism simply makes it more visible

>>13430770
Both capitalism and communism are Jewish in origin dear anon.

>>13431224
Oh yeah that famous Jew Napoleon

>>13431065
Did your sociology prof tell you that?

>>13431230
Why do you think he emancipated the jews?

>>13431066
how is free trade a direct threat to one, like being locked in a cage with tigers?
i didn't say pro-cap, i said pro-market. maybe economical freedom is a sensetive topic to anyone who grew up in soviet or post-soviet times so it provokes such a maximalistic response. but i'm certainly not choosing this stance mindlessly.

>>13431246
Because he was fighting for freedom, equality, and fraternity. I guess it's impossible to not be an antisemite without being on Jewish payroll to you?

>>13431246
Because he thought shit would turn out better if the jews became assimilated rather than form money-lending cabals in their ghettos.

>>13430770
>(that aren't commie/socialist propaganda)
You hate capitalism, yet still buy into the propaganda that "communism bad" and that those who are wealthier and more powerful than you will magically start giving a shit about you because you found the right system. With the advancement of our civilization, it is necessary for the common good that all men and women work together to mutually assure their own needs are met and their own good is protected and defended. We may have a vote, but as long as corporations exist that control the wealth, wage labor exists so that the top may parasite of the labor of the proletariat and profit is put above all else there will never be true liberation and we will never overcome our exploitation by the elite. Marxist dialectics in their purest form is simply the natural progression of the ideals of the enlightenment and despite previous failed implementations, the core ideas of marxism is the only rationale and sustainable path that mankind can take to continue to better society as a whole.

>>13430770
>not realizing that article is fake
lol you're such a retard

>>13431263
>he was fighting for freedom, equality, and fraternity
Really?
The Emperor?
Hmmm

>>13430770
>tfw no aris bong water

>>13430770
>I want X but without X
Do you want coffee without caffeine too?

>>13431307
You can critique capitalism from more than a Marxist perspective

Capitalism is fine unless youre a retard

>>13430770
Capitalism is a necessary evil, it will soon be replaced when we reach automation and AI

>>13430770
Why don't we just ban thottery on social media or streaming sites, then? You can even pay people to report this content.

>>13431066
Both capitalism and *true* communism i.e. the one that Marx talks about, erode culture.
The only societies with culture had a hierachy in which the people at the top weren't hedonist consumers (today's bourgeoisie). Aristocracy is the answer if you want great art. But that's no longer posible. The future is Marxist and the present is capitalist. What a fucking waste.

>>13431307
>implying decaffeinated coffee doesn't exist

>>13431332
How is it going to be better?

>>13431322
such as?

Marx is the only one that goes to the root of the problem: surplus value.

>>13431355
>aristocrats weren't hedonistic consumers
Imagine being this low iq

>>13431322
Like the fuck what? Literally the only person to whine about the mechanics of capitalism itself is Marx.

>>13431356
>not getting the reference

>>13431371
You can criticize the underlying ideas (property existing without a power center to recognize it, the "free market" as meaningful in anyway, the state of nature concept, and more) as British nonsense.

>>13431360
well, some portion of the population won't need to be marginalized so the economy can work

>>13431373
I didn't say they weren't hedonistic. In fact, most of them were. But some of them used their resources to pursue great goals instead of futile pleasure. Take Tolstoy trying to be the best writer, for example.
Nowadays, EVERY fucking bourgeois cares only about hedonism. They want more money to have more pleasure. They are junkies in a way.

>>13431386
Have you never read Adam Smith?

>>13431387
>as British nonsense
That sounds more like rejecting capitalism than critiquing it.

>>13431386
Engels was quite fond of Sombart's elucidation of Marx, and Sombart was effectively a Marxist who then became a "German socialist" or national socialist.

>>13431395
Nobody is going to have a job, but who is going to provide resources for the population?
What is the incentive to provide something for free?

>>13431396
It wasn't any better. Tolstoi was one of a kind, russian aristocracy/burgeois were cringy.

Thats why it was so easy for Lenning to move the masses and cut as many heads he need.

>>13431410
taxation and welfare

>>13431065
t. Never read any Fascist books

>>13431404
Even better desu, we've been suffering from British nonsense for long enough.

>>13431409
>another critic of capitalism was someone who started out a marxist but then stopped
That's not helping your case

>>13431065
Fascism is the only ideology which ever dared to raise it's hand against capitalism on a significant scale.

>>13430770
>what are some books that criticize capitalism (that aren't commie/socialist propaganda)

Fascist books.

>>13431460
>>13431233
>>13431441

>>13431489
Expectation
>Fascism dismantles capitalism

Reality
>>13431503

>>13431371
>surplus value.
LTV doesn't exist. It's wrong in so many ways. There are Keynesian critiques and there are even right wing critiques.

*cracks open a jar of slut water*
*sips*
Ahhh

>>13431508
Fascism is more "rejection of British nonsense" than "we need a Party-planned economy to distribute the product of the proletariat's labor from each according to his ability to each according to his need"

>>13430770
>@BakeRises

>>13431517
>Keynesian
>right wing

capitalists defending capitalism. color me surprised.

>>13430770
>criticizes capitalism
>not commie propaganda
Well . . .

>>13431532
I never called Keynesianism right wing

>>13431542
me neither.

>>13431542
see it as a list of different flavours of capitalists.

>>13431525
Expanding on this, Fuhrerprinzip is pretty much the anti-"British nonsense" mode of social organization.

Any books that talk about capitalism + natsoc?

>>13431508
What about (((banks)))? (((Wall Street)))?

>>13430797
> it's just that there's nothing better.

>>13431525
>"we need a Party-planned economy to distribute the product of the proletariat's labor from each according to his ability to each according to his need"
That sounds like Soviet Union and not the 'privatize everything!' Nazi Germany

if you despise capitalism for moral reasons and you are not a lefty, you might be a fascist.

>>13431587
Oh my bad I misread your post

>>13431582
If the centralized distribution of resources was more efficient than the price coordinated distribution, we would all be socialist. That fact is the calculation problem hasn't been solved. It's why socialism fails in every respect.

>>13430770
I hate that roastie

>>13431550
>everything i don't like is neoliberal capitalism

>>13430770
looks shopped

>>13431503
>companies are bad but usury is good.

>>13431587
Again once you reject British nonsense the public private distinction isn't meaningful, "private" property practically presupposes a Lockean theory of property where someone mixes their labor with property and it becomes private (=prior to the State). Marx just asks "if you aren't working, why do you own property" which is basically the whole theory of surplus value.

>>13431503
And?
There are a wide array of companies missing, by the way, but Germany also privatized many industries (watch companies as one example).
Fascists, and this is something communists can never understand, aren't economical ideologues, they oppose capitalism where it hurts their people and help it flourish where it marches in tune with the nation.
Fascist economics are entirely pragmatic, not born out of bizarre ideological constructions about "class struggle" or "individual liberty", but from what is beneficial to the nation as a whole.

>>13431356

>>13431084
Literally retarded

>>13431135
Belle Delphine is neither a manipulator of capital nor in the 1%

>>13431658
He's not wrong, there have been many heretical Christian Socialist sects before Marx was born, see the Munster rebellion, Diggers, Joachimites, League of the Just, and more.

>>13431660
She is tho

>>13431645
>Fascist economics are entirely pragmatic, not born out of bizarre ideological constructions about "class struggle" or "individual liberty", but from what is beneficial to the nation as a whole.
This.

>>13431660
>the (((1%)))

>>13431396
Tolstoy was am anarchist I don't know if that fits

>>13431660
>nor in the 1%
She has 4000 Patreons, even at $10 each, she is making about half a million a year (and I think the amount per person is MUCH higher then that, sadly the income is hidden), that puts her in the 1% of income in the US:
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/27/how-much-you-have-to-earn-to-be-in-the-top-1percent-in-every-us-state.html

>>13430770
You might like G.K Chesterton (pic related is from a Twitter bot that posts Chesterton quotes that I found a while back) and Oswald Mosley.

>>13430778
>no more superstars... except my instagram thots

>>13431661
He's right about socialists movements before and after Marx but he's wrong to use that as a critique of Marx. I mean Marx writes book after book critiquing his predecessors and contemporaries no one is under the assumption he's the first

>>13431637
>you reject British nonsense the public private distinction isn't meaningful
Literally nuh uh

>>13430778
Celebs don't hoard enough wealth to be the problem. They're just flashy enough to draw attention away from the actual ultra-rich.

>>13431135
>The internet is socialism
Maybe the creator intended to be so but definitely not with changes to net neutrality.

>>13430770
>Dugin's Fourth Political Theory, and Last War Of The World Island
>Linkola's Can Life Prevail
>Troy Southgate's Tradition And Revolution
>Bookchin's Ecology Of Freedom (yes he's a libertarian leftist, but he's not a Marxist)
>Christopher Lasch, any book from 1970s onward

Of course Junger and Evola and all the old fascists.

>>13431645
So they don't really oppose capitalism. They just want to make some other kind of capitalism. I agree with you maybe they rejected some things usually associated with capitalism, like consumerism, but thats all.

>>13430770
>old fascists.
Cringe

>>13431645
That is exactly the critique I've read of fascism from marxists though. Everyone knows Nazis didn't march because they believed in privatisation or class cooperation. It's more that the myth of a heroic nation beset by traitors, always defined as religious or ethnic minorities, as an alternative to class analysis, inevitably leads to class cooperation. So long as their efforts can be marketed as aiding the nation corporations have nothing to worry about under fascism.
This is usually why marxists define fascism as the "barbarism" fork in the "we must choose between socialism or barbarism" line. It's a capitalist defense mechanism.

>>13430780
Based and unabombpilled

>>13431645
>Fascist economics are entirely pragmatic, not born out of bizarre ideological constructions about "class struggle" or "individual liberty", but from what is beneficial to the nation as a whole.
So they aren't based on any criticism of capitalism or anti-capitalism at all? Noted with thanks.

Even then they are fighting the inevitable tide against capital. Unlike reformists and fedualists, marxists are riding out the wave to its conclusion.

>>13431645
No, communists understood that Fascism is completely impotent in the face of capitalism right from the start. Saying "we're not ideological, we're pragmatists" is about the most transparent attempt possible at concealing the fact that you have no answers, no program.

>[D]espite its exceptional military capabilities, Fascism is still left with a thorny problem it can't resolve: whilst economic crisis keeps the reasons for a revolutionary upsurge continually to the fore, Fascism is incapable of reorganising the bourgeois economic machine. Fascism, which will never be able to overcome the economic anarchy of the capitalist system, has another historical task which we may define as the struggle against political anarchy, against the anarchy of bourgeois class organisation as a political party. [...] The counter-revolutionary offensive has forced the ruling class, in the realm of social struggle and government policy, to unify its forces. Fascism is the realisation of this. Placing itself above all the traditional bourgeois parties, it is gradually sapping them of their membership, replacing them in their functions and—thanks to the mistakes of the proletarian movement—managing to exploit the political power and human material of the middle classes. But it will never manage to equip itself with a practical ideology, and a programme of social and administrative reforms, which goes beyond traditional bourgeois politics; a politics which has come to nought a thousand times before. [...]

>The programme of Fascism contains a confused mixture of bourgeois and petty-bourgeois ideas and demands, and its systemic use of violence against the proletariat does not prevent it making use of the opportunist methods used by social democracy. This is shown in the stance of the Italian reformists whose politics, for a while, appeared to be dominated by anti-Fascist principles, and by the illusion that bourgeois-proletarian coalition government could be formed against the Fascisti, but who today have rallied behind triumphant Fascism. [...]

>As far as we are concerned, Fascism is a way of retaining power by using all means at the disposal of the ruling classes, including even the utilisation of the lessons of the first victorious proletarian revolution, the Russian Revolution. Faced with a severe economic crisis, power can not be maintained by forces of the State alone. There must also be a united party, a centralised counter-revolutionary organisation. The Fascist Party, in relation to the bourgeoisie, is somewhat like the Russian Communist Party in relation to the proletariat—an organ for the direction and control of the State machine which is solidly organised and disciplined. The Fascist Party in Italy has placed its political agents inside every important branch of the State. It is the bourgeois organ for the control of the State during the period of capitalist decadence.

>>13431789
>So they aren't based on any criticism of capitalism or anti-capitalism at all?
Did you read what I wrote?
Any Fascist will oppose Capitalism where it hurts the health of his nation, and given the current state of capitalism, pushing things like immigration, globalization, etc., a critique of capitalism will have to be part of any Fascists economic perspective.

>>13431849
>the fact that you have no answers
Fascism (and also myself) denies the existence of the question.
I deny that class, especially today, is of any relevance whatsoever.

>>13431851
critique of fascism has always been a part of the doctrine, make no mistake. A matter of fact leftist critiques and fascists critiques have always been very similar, like this "clown world" dogwhistle that's been going around. However, fascism is absolutely retarded in its response to these critiques

>>13431729
They oppose to capitalism, but do not oppose capital nor private property, as long as its end is not itself but the common good of the Nation.

That's why fascism and nazism are enabling the development of industry, but not to consumerism, because they reject capitalism/liberalism/communism which are all ideologies that put material goods as the final cause of the State (ones by promoting galloping production, usury and so on, others, i.e. commies, by promoting [at least in theory, but vastly in practics too] strict material equality)

>>13431876
critiques of capitalism, my bad

>>13431525
It's impossible to get a correct read on fascist economics, because it only existed in the mode of a war economy. The entire economic boost that Germany experienced once the nazis came into power was driven by their expansionist war preparations.

>>13431867
Ah ok, so what's the problem then, ghosts? The Jews, maybe?

>>13431878
capitalism is not an ideology, is a economic system. What you are saying is they are ok with the economic system, not with some other things that came with that economic system, if that economic system called capitalism is good for the nation.

>>13431761
>That is exactly the critique I've read of fascism from marxists though.
And I do not think that their belief is entirely unfounded, but my accusation is that they fail to see Fascism through anything but a material, purely economical lens.
Certainly, from the Marxist perspective, what happens was that their Rebellion got crushed by a movement which proceeded to cooperate with the capitalists and if you ignore everything but the economical perspective their conclusion seems sensible.
But the fact to the matter is that the Fascists weren't economic ideologues, they do not care what specific economic policies are in place, as long as they are effective at what they are supposed to do.

I mean, I can give you a Fascist perspective on the history of Immigration in the past decades, and my thesis would be "Capitalists and leftists working hand in hand to crush the European nations".

>>13431891
>Ah ok, so what's the problem then, ghosts?
With contemporary Capitalism?
Their push for globalization, and immigration, their threat to the natural heritage of my nation and so on.

>>13430778
>he's dumb enough to think Kim Kardashian is the problem
I'm glad you'll never reproduce

>>13431906
>Implying "economics" is not pure ideology

Even in the total freedom of dreams, you are totally encysted by the market ideology

>>13431915
Who is pushing for these things and why? Do you really think that the capitalists pushing for freer, more exploitative markets and a bigger, cheaper labor force has nothing to do with their class position? That is, their holdings and all their fucking money?

>>13431932
>Who is pushing for these things and why?
You know (((who))).

>>13431908
As far as I can tell you're saying that the murder of immigrants and other groups that the main body finds unsavory is more the point of fascism than any other grievance? Not trying to misinterpret you I'm just confused as to what this missing dimension is if isn't cruelty borne from ethnic hatred.

>>13431940
Yeah I figured as much, magical demon Jews are essentially committed to destroying white people. Good luck with it.

>>13431716
True, but the distribution of celebrity is a good thing and the revocation of wealth and power away from those who did nothing to earn it is forward progress for society.

You already know the solution

>>13431964
>(((Adorno)))

>>13431921
Not THE problem, but A problem to which a solution seems to have appeared. How many celebrities have successfully transitioned to political office? How many have found success in business by tying their "household name" to a brand? If these abuses of power start dissolving, why can't the same channels currently used for amassing popularity be used for amassing political favor or business acumen? If that sounds like a terrible idea, it's probably because you think socialism is a bad idea, but it's a very real future.

>>13431915
>>13431932
>"If Capital is free to move internationally, and Means Of Production are free to move internationally, why then is Labor chained in place?"

But the reason that Capital likes immigration while also encouraging it's demonization is that they want to keep the workers divided and destabilized, and to take advantage of the power imbalance to check off all the boxes of exploitation:
They want mexicans to take your job because illegal workers can't sue for safety violations or wage theft.
They depress the wages of legals and the fact of their illegality makes them totally beholden on the company to not turn them in, neutralizing collective bargaining, while simultaneously neutralizing efforts by legals to unionize.

Illegal Foreign Workers are scabs, no more no less

>>13431951
Read The Culture of Critique

>>13431065
corporatism is not synonymous with capitalism

>>13431944
>I'm just confused as to what this missing dimension is if isn't cruelty borne from ethnic hatred.
Any dimension not economic. For example, I would consider an authentic American Fascism to be multiracial.
For a genuine american Fascist the economic dimension, meaning how much stuff to people possess, is to a certain extent relevant, but other questions, concerning human life also have to be relevant.
Do people live meaningful lives, does their material wealth bring them actually happiness, or does it lead to decadence, and coming back to the example, a genuine American Fascist would care for the health of the nation as a whole, especially how to have black and whites live together without causing hatred of the groups.

>As far as I can tell you're saying that the murder of immigrants and other groups that the main body finds unsavory is more the point of fascism than any other grievance?
As surprising as it may seem, the thing I wish the most in that regard is not having to hate anyone I have to live in close proximity with.
But one thing about that, that I am pretty certain of is that immigration is breeding exactly that hatred, both ways.
If you ask me what the solution to immigrants in Europe is, I don't know, but what I think is certain, is that it was a catastrophe.

>>13431951
That wasn't the guy you responded to, by the way.

>>13431995
Read my dick

>>13431867
Yes, I know that the first Fascist response to their impotence is denial.
The question regularly appears in the material form of imperialist wars and economic crises. It's hard to miss it. And in fact in Weimar Germany the reality of the question was so undeniable, that the Jew had to be invented as the cause, and his liquidation as an answer.

>>13431980
whats wrong with adorno, if you dont like him for being jewish, at least pick more on Benjamin for actually including kabbalah into his leftist theory

>>13431932
>Do you really think that the capitalists pushing for freer, more exploitative markets and a bigger, cheaper labor force has nothing to do with their class position?
I honestly kinda don't get the question.
Of course the position of Capitalists puts them into a unique position to push for policies benefiting them, but I mean, what is the solution?
"Workers of the world unite"? I think that is neither realistic nor sensible.

>>13432008
I would need a microscope for that.

>>13432017
He was one of the fathers of Cultural Marxism.

>>13432019
Well your statement was pretty strong, that class has no relevance whatsoever. That would seem to rule out the concept of "bourgeois interests", that is supressing wages and increasing profits, as being necessary to address.

>>13432015
But what question exactly.

I also believe that Jews weren't seen as a scapegoat, it makes literally no fucking sense.
To have such an intricate logistical system, while fighting the greatest war in history HAD to be ideological.
There is a great leap to be made from saying that you are gonna kill the Jews, to *actually* doing it.
My hot take on Hitler and the NSDAP is that if the Holocaust happened, they were the most honest politicians the world has ever seen.
Who else would proclaim and undertaking as large and complex, as the extermination of an entire people, but once reaching office not avoiding the issue, but actually do it?

>>13432074
>The Holocaust, if it happened
Why are you pretending to be less on board than you are? If you fascists weren't such pussies this would make conversations with you a lot easier.

>>13432073
I just don't see class as a relevant dimension, that doesn't mean that capitalists and their interests do not exist.

>>13432091
>Why are you pretending to be less on board than you are?
But I do think the Holocaust happened, as I think Hitler was a radically honest man.

>>13432091
>If you fascists weren't such pussies
oh the irony

>>13432094
If the interests and actions of the powerful and wealthy can be recognized and defined then they are of course a relevant dimension. That's all class analysis is.

>>13431135
>megacorporations with close relationships to the government who tightly control speech on their platforms are socialism

>>13432101
>clickbait articles by random low iq whores
I thought the masterrace didn't fall for such trickery.

>>13432101
Ironclad citation lol
My guess is that you don't lift.

>>13432121
>censorship has anything to do with socialism
anyway, expect a new classification of for-profit public utilities coming soon so that the government can defend digging out "too big to fail" companies in a more official capacity

>>13431441
They pretend to be anti-capitalist but they are for capitalism on steroids.

(((Capitalism)))

>>13431608
No, capitalism is defined as private ownership of the means of production. That’s just the definition

>>13431066
>pic
They fund the mines, pay the workers, take all the risks when no gold is found, and all this comes from their pocket, and is usually money they, or someone down their family tree, had to work hard for.

What kind of "weird alchemy" are we talking about here?

>>13432155
Based

>>13432167
Captain of industry propaganda. They write off the risks with taxes, or are just straight up paid by state government, inherited the money, and steal the surplus value from the workers. Even if we can justify it, there are more workers than capitalists, and more than enough guns to shoot all of them.

>>13432178
This.

>>13432178
Why are churches never in these?
King=CEO=Pope

>>13432074
The question of the anarchy of capitalist production repeatedly wrecking havoc on the world.

>>13432094
The profit of the capitalists is in the inverse relation to the wages of the workers. From there emerges a general interests of the capitalists in keeping wages on the low end and a general interest of workers in keeping wages on the high end.

I don't think even Fascists can deny the conflict. Their only move is to insist that once some angry man comes to power, he will be able to keep these opposing interest "harmoniously balanced". But because of the natural asymmetry of the capital–wage labour relationship, this harmonious balance can be nothing but organized exploitation, where only the excesses of individual capitalists are prevented.

>>13431517
>LTV doesn't exist. It's wrong in so many ways.
such as?

>>13431878
>They oppose to capitalism, but do not oppose capital nor private property
That is like saying you are not opposing to X except to all the definition of X.

Can an entire ideology be judged by its most base and decadent extremes? I’m literally a dem soc soifiend and I think this is too simple.

>>13432214
So what you want is a world that gives you no opportunities to improve? Make no mistake, the only enemy of the so called "working class" is the working class itself. Nobody is denied internet in today's modern societies, and nobody's denied the truth about over consumerism, which is not a problem inherent to capitalism - although capitalism facilitates it by nature.

The only thing wrong with capitalism - or capitalist societies today - is a lack of "spiritual" (not spiritual as in a spirit, but as in personality, and introspection and all that; and no, religion doesn't do the job), guidance, nothing else.

You can go on amazon right now, and capitalism facilitates your acquisition of books like the willpower instinct, and that's not a bad thing. What is a problem, is that people are already too blinded by a million billion things to consume, and then we get faggots who think spending their entire day reading books is somehow better than spending their entire day watching TV (it's marginally better, I'll give you that), and who can't for the life of them bring themselves to change from that catatonic state, and to do something that will actually improve their lives.

If you're a parent, for instance, and complain that you don't have enough money to feed your children and to save for a better education or whatever, this is YOUR FAULT. It's you who stupidly decided to have kids before being financially stable, and now you want a government that patches your mistakes at the cost of people who actually work.

You can bitch about capitalism all you want, but it is as close as it gets to a natural state.

>>13431778
i can’t believe this slut would rather pose in meme clothes than be my cumthirsty breeder gf.

>>13432326
It seems like you're conflating being a human in society with capitalism itself. Since of course disappointment, aspiration, triumph and failure, etc are going to exist no matter the economic order. I don't want some kind of grey jumpsuit flatland, I just want workers to control production lol. I do in fact think that this would be far more liberating than the precarity of wage labor the only advantage to such a system being that maybe, if I sacrifice my youth to some bullshit product I don't care about, I can only exploit workers and rape children in my off-time. Talk about spiritual death.
Seeing as how the majority of civilization has been without capitalism I think it's a stretch to say that we have no progression to make, that is some Fukuyama end of history shit and it's already unraveling in front of us. Capitalism has been a mixed bag but are already far past the degenerate stage. In America production has sailed while wages are stagnant, mental health crises have skyrocketed, and life expectancy has gone down compared to the previous generation while the planet boils around us. If a better world isn't possible, then we can at least stop things from getting worse. My money is on killing the billionaires and their lobbyists.

>>13430946
get on my level pleb

>>13432155
What's the difference between (((Capitalism))) and (((Nazism)))>>13431503 ?

>>13432028
adorno was a cultural reactionary. try reading one of his books you subhuman retard

>>13432326
>Make no mistake, the only enemy of the so called "working class" is the working class itself.
An incredible thing to say given that not too long ago the national guard was called in to quell strikers, asking for things like a higher wage or a livable work week, and to this day faces hostility from the government and employers, up to and including hiring mafia goons to kill labor organizers and strikers. In Japan they sent in the fucking Yakuza armed with swords.
When labor organizes the result is warfare, which was what Marx was trying to tell you.

>>13430778
Is there evidence to prove that Bella Delphine is hurting Kim Kardashian?

>>13431580
I'm not a capitalist

>>13432315
No it's not.
It's opposing a necessary and morally neutral reality (private property, capital) and the ideology that absolutizes this reality.

>>13432387
>wage labor

I think people severely misunderstand wage labor, and really blow how bad it is. The way I see wage labor, and the way you should see it as well, is that it is an opportunity for you to gather resources when you have none. Eventually, your goal should invariably be to become independent of those kinds of jobs and build your own economic "empire", freeing those jobs for the newcomers and creating jobs for them yourself, or at least to just get income independently.

People who go through life working 9-5 jobs from their 20s to their 70s are really really doing it all wrong (or not, depending on their goals, but the ones who complain are), and these are the kinds of people who don't like capitalism, because they are too dumb / lazy to understand the rules of the game. And the reason why I mentioned young parents in my previous posts, is because these people are often one and the same. It's people who feel trapped in a system that equates to little more than the already base nature of evolution, and who can't seem to get into their tiny heads why they're trapped in the first place, even though to anyone with two brain cells the answer is more than obvious.

Capitalism works. Just don't make dumb mistakes that are easy to avoid, and you can have the life you want.

>>13432428
To you, the same:
>>13432456

Tl;dr: Wage jobs are not meant to be the be all - end all of capitalist living, and I don't know where people got this idea from.

>>13430770
This woman is genuinely disgusting. Like, actually fucking revolting.

>>13431580
>necessary and morally neutral reality (private property, capital)
THIS is ideology, pure ideology.

>>13432464
LMAO EVERYONE SHOULD JUST BE A CAPITALIST

>>13432456
Alright well that's a decent individual prescription for what one should do if they're middle class but it is individual, if you'll pardon the meme we live in a society. The entire engine of the economy relies on wage labor, it is impossible for the majority of the country to become petty bourgeois and as time goes on we are only becoming more and more stratified, there are more billionaires than ever before. Soon there will be no petty bourgeois and the throne of high capital will be unapproachable. You cannot escape the mode of production you live under.
Luckily this is a political system, open to political change, and it is only reasonable for the working class, the engine of society, to engineer it in a way that benefits them rather than a cabal of parasites.

>>13432428
That's why the working class needs to stockpile weapons.

>>13430770
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omEw03ELyQE

>>13432523
To clarify my position, I don't mean to say everyone will eventually end up as the leader of a company, or even will become independent of wages. Some people will not be smart enough / knowledgeable enough / hard working enough to achieve that. What I'm saying is that that's completely fine, if nothing else because failed people are a part of nature, and it's something that can't really be fixed.

>>13432581
The position of the working class can be improved though, in such a way that benefits society as a whole. That's a political question and there is a political solution available. Adjusting the minimum wage, or work hour laws, or mandatory vacation times, or rent control, etc are political options even within capitalism to improving the conditions of the working class. Socialism is handing them the reigns, which is only a bad idea if you think the capitalists contribute something worth all the wealth they hoard without which it doesn't function. If that's true I'll recant, but I doubt it.
Your position seems to be one of political apathy. That's it best to enrich yourself and ensure easy living without worrying about the politics. And that's one way to go through your life, but at the end of the day you're just not participating. It's not a refutation of Marxist analysis or socialism. The ultra wealthy do participate, like the Koch brothers or the Mercer group, I know what they want and I know I don't like it.

>>13432811
Do not post this incel bullshit again please

>>13432581
This is literally what Marx says in Critique of the Gotha Program. As it turns out, more people will have the opportunity to translate their potential into successful action if their labor isn't designed to line the pockets of some trust fund baby who inherited daddy's company.

>>13430770
Rerum novarum
https://w2.vatican.va/content/leo-xiii/en/encyclicals/documents/hf_l-xiii_enc_15051891_rerum-novarum.html

>>13431270
communism is bad you fucking troglodyte.

>>13431355
>>13431373
>>13431396
>>13431413
I would argue artistic standards changed because overtime art develops and artists try new things and go against the trend, which creates a new trend, which leads to new artists going against the trend etc.

I don't think the change of Artistic standards over history resembles the change of politics from Aristocracy to Democracy to Socialism as you imply.

>>13430770
Tribe
Sapians

>>13432928
why?

>>13432143
The censorship part was directed at his statement about the power of people to communicate freely; my bad for not articulating that

>>13431403
Marx based Das Kapital around A. Smith and Ricardo.

>>13432811
Is this any good? I just ordered this and some other works by the same author and it sounds fascinating.

>>13430770
The problem here isn't capitalism. If money wasn't being exchanged in this process, it would still be an issue. The problem is rooted in our original sin which makes us bastardise sexuality into whatever this is.

>>13432824
it's not incel bullshit it's a marxist analysis and synthesis of PoMo, written in late '90s so way before the global incel crisis
>>13433610
nigga just download it it's free
it's good imho, but the typography is terrible (at least in the ebook version, dunno about the MITpress edition)

>>13430917
markets aren’t exclusive to capitalism

>>13431604
Then how come every large company is effectively a centrally planned economy?
Walmart is not a market economy internally, yet i oversees a vast distribution and economic network.

>>13431065
While it's true that "Privatisation" was coined to describe Hitler's economic decisions, Mosley was pretty much a social democrat.

>>13430770
Belle is an accelerationist. She definitely knows what she is doing

>>13430770
Someone explain to me how buying and doing things that would have made you seen as a gigantic fucking creep 15 or even 10 years, is now even sort of okay?

>>13431263
>impossible to not be an antisemite without being on Jewish payroll
Can't you not write with no use of negation?
And no, antisemties can't be antisemites without working for the jew (knowingly or otherwise)

>>13431726
based

>>13431730
actually my dude you're fucking cringe

>>13430797

Reading Adam Smith will make you realize none of the so called capitalists are actually capitalists, they're business men.

>>13432451
It is opposing the system without opposing any of its fundamental components. You people are literally having your cake and eating it

>>13430770
>that aren't commie/socialist propaganda
I suppose this means you wouldn't want to read someone like Walter Benjamin? You should though. He was a great commentator on capitalism; his remodeling of the revolutionary struggle from capitalism vs. spirit to capitalism vs. the proletariat is solid and still relevant today.

>>13433764
A good contrast is Sears, who did have a weird market economy program internally in which separate divisions were competing with one another. The evidence of how well that went is probably at your local mall.

>>13430961
wow, ideology's deep in this one

>>13430770
Celine

>>13432824
If you liked TotYG you'll love this
https://triumvirateproject.tumblr.com/post/58943559281/preliminary-materials-for-a-critique-of-the-nice

>>13431959
How do you feel about inherited wealth?

>>13432425
all adorno wrote was un-founded shit built to destroy europeans

Just A C C E L E R A T E I T you stupid negroes

>>13430780
Holy shit, based!

https://arcdigital.media/conservatives-should-question-their-laissez-faire-consensus-2a95d7010792

>>13430780
Also Anti-Tech Revolution: Why and How

>>13433807
>>13434322

>>13431270
>>13431066
There needs to be some alternative now that communism has been discredited. A "post-communism" if you will.

>>13431270
Communism is a product of the same rotten ideological tree as capitalism. The entirety of liberalism and its children must be discarded.

>>13430770
Why Do They Capitalize Every Word? It's Very Ugly.

>>13430780
This and mein Kempf

>>13435334
You should read Albert Jay Nock on Economism.

>>13434771
Relating to this one.

>>13431582
Dilate.

>>13430770
I saw a webm of her today and jacked off to it. Will I get herpes too?

>>13430770
Nothing wrong with capitalism, nothing wrong with that girl doing what makes her profit and her fans buying the things they wish with their own hard-earned money. Both parties end up well, and all is consensual. Even those who "got herpes" (probably fake) knew the risks they were taking, so they can't complain - besides, the same thing happens during sex, and not even commies oppose it.

So shut up and have sex.

I don't get why the brainlets here argue about communism every day. The people here can't live a day without their phone, mindlessly browsing 4chan, with porn-masturbation and food addictions. The ones who make grandiose proclamations about "bloody revolution" are probably the most limp-wristed and self indulgent of them all.

There are no true critiques of capitalism in book form, due to the nature of books in capitalist society, namely their being intended primarily to make the author rich.

>>13431127
This nibba is speakin the troof

>>13430770
Books that critique capitalism that aren't socialist are either capitalist but racist or knight larpers.

>>13430770
A History of the World in Seven Cheap Things

The crisis in culture (1932)

>>13432477
>>LMAO EVERYONE SHOULD JUST BE A CAPITALIST
>the working class should OWN the means of production
>NO, NOT LIKE THAT!

>>13431016
>zero edition

Maybe you should worry about basic bitches like yourself, who only realize capitalism is shit when something visibly jumps the shark.

>>13430780
>Loser got rejected by a woman, adopts a radical worldview, becomes a total loner, and subsequently goes on a killing rampage.

>>13436064
taxi driver?

>Capitalism sucks but it's okay if corporations can read our mind and drive us to pedophilia and suicide
I hope you die anons

>>13431994
Unions are just mafia-like monopolies on jobs. They neutralize individual bargaining. They have their own hierarchy and system of nepotism. They exploit individuals by forcing them to join the unions or not get the job, which aren't free. Workers are beholden to obey the unions, such as who to vote for and going on strike when ordered. You have no choice but to follow them.

>>13435478
>>13436168
>>13436103
>>13436090
>>13436064
>>13435756
>>13435753
>>13435749
>>13435720
>>13435627
>>13435607
>>13435590
>>13435507
>>13435490
>>13435477
>>13435466
>>13435461
>>13435458
>>13435436
>>13435348
>>13435334
>>13435259
>>13434771
>>13434757
>>13434482
>>13434322
>>13434294
>>13434285
>>13434273
>>13434232
>>13434228
>>13433956
>>13433947
>>13433939
>>13433911
>>13433908
>>13433901
>>13433893
>>13433888
>>13433807
>>13433764
>>13433747
>>13433713
>>13433654
>>13433610
>>13433577
>>13433340
>>13433288
>>13433172
>>13432928
>>13433169
>>13432920
>>13432887
>>13432824

You are all into interracial sex slavery and having your minds read by corporations and the government, your thoughts will be catalogued against you

>>13436090
No, Ted was a factory worker during the time he was trying to woo the woman.

>>13432404
fascism is capitalism in crisis trying to stabalize itself

>>13435259
communism hasn't been discredited, lenin has been discredited, I'd really recommend you look into communism in some depth

>>13436168
This kind of thing is fun to think about for me because there's so many logical critiques that render wildly different, but equally solid, criticisms and proposed solutions.
Your statement is actually a very anti-hierarchy human-nature argument.
Bookchin would agree with you

(I mean, I read the anti-union arguments in mein kampf that you're using too, to be clear)

>>13430961
>i value culture above profit, but support a system making it impossible to earn a living for the creators of culture

>>13431343
Capitalism always prevails.

>>13431489
>the bees
whatever you do, DON'T SAVE HONEY BEES. Every species of bees is going extinct because of commercial bee-keepers and their honey bees.
Normies are falling for it and donating to the people killing native bees

>>13430770
>stupid people exist and do stupid shit
>"wow, I hate [system within which stupidity takes place]"

this meme needs to die already.

>>13436423
See anon, the problem is the system allows and encourages stupidity to thrive. How long do you think bella and her orbiters could last in greek polis?

>>13431716
Kylie Jenner is literally a billionaire, they hoard more than enough cash for it to be a problem

How do I deal with knowing I will never achieve great wealth in a capitalistic system and live a completely mediocre life by my parents standards.

This whole thread is one big yikes. Should have jumped ship a long time ago.

>>13436486
This, strongly this

>>13436304
how has Lenin been discredited?

>>13430770
>Criticising capitalism while also being an anti-socialist reactionary.
>Yup, it's eco-fash time.

>>13431604
>Socialism fails because is not neoliberalism.
Imagine having this much neoliberal ideology in your head.

>>13430770
Nibelungenlied

>>13436180

>>13431604
socialism is not about optimizing efficiency of distribution
and calculation problem doesn't even address socialism

he was cumbrain, plain cumbrain. cumbrainia in his pyjamas and ejaculation hypothalamus on the weekend

>>13436180
schizo

>>13431184
no only allah (pbuh) can

>>13436180
and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that

>>13432326
you sound deeply insane

That Delphine chick is pure kino whats your problem

>>13436641
these horrible cunts

>>13437036
>socialism is not about optimizing efficiency of distribution
depends on the type. Luxemborg would agree with you but not Lenin, yeah?

>>13439168
It's not a matter of opinion. Having said that, Lenin would agree with me.

>>13430770
>that aren't commie/socialist propaganda
you deserve everything you get, burger

>>13430778
I rather like this perspective. This is the information era. The bad side is we are prone to echo chambers. The good side is that we have a diverse amount of media to distribute our viewership. Just as viewership of major television stations is now being scattered among various online media (YouTube), the fame of television whores (Kardashians) will be dispersed among a diverse array of e-thots. Its like, anti-monopoly in a way...

>>13433764
>Then how come every large company is effectively a centrally planned economy?
Jesus Christ this place has gotten retarded. This is the dumbest thing I've ever seen.

>>13439319
It's true though.

>>13430780
Absolutely based and redpilled

>>13430770
I'm pretty sure we're supposed to be saying that it was scientifically proven to NOT be bathwater. Please try to stay on-message, guys.