/lit/ - Literature

>>13425687
I don't get why the left is attacked so much with this anti postmodern neo-marxist dribble. I'm a left of center philosopher and I value all of those things I'm supposedly meant to be dismissing as does literally every left academic philosopher I've ever spoken to and read.

>>13425740

Yeah sure lol that's why postmodern philosophy is definitely very conciliatory and respectful towards established empirical traditions

Except it isn't at all and instead it is mercilessly critical and iconoclastic to the point of unproductive mayhem. At the end of the day, it's because it isn't about liberation or critique, it's about expressing intellectual dominance. And gaining power. Just like Foucault says.

>>13425687
Isn't he really into the drive for power?

>>13425740
So you're a liberal. Go suck individualist subjectivist cock, yall are literally two steps from it

>>13425740
I think it's being presented as the Conservative understanding of the liberal appeal

>>13425774
That's just retarded, power can't be used to explain everything, Foucault was just projecting.

>>13425687
There's nothing post-modern about it.

>>13426168

>Analyze the motivations and power relations inherent to schools of thought in order to deconstruct their relationship to the 'truth', if such a concept could even be defined

Heh... sounds postmodernist to me

>>13426207
Then you don't know what post-modernism is, it doesn't have some monopoly on scrutinizing motivation itself, which should be especially obviously in this case given the implied deference to objective motivation or truth fundamental to based Ted's argument.

>>13426226
>it doesn't have some monopoly on scrutinizing motivation itself

Yes it does

>>13426257
>3,000 years ago when some bronze age faggots were trying to out a thief and asked who would benefit from the crime...
>they were post modernists
seems legit

>>13425774
>the left is postmodernism
yikes

>>13426023
Yeah, the real irony is that he's describing himself there. Read about his life and you'll see how emotional much of that manifesto really was.

>the left is anti-science
stopped reading, no conclusion based on that error could be even remotely true

>right reason logic and science
>left anti intellectual anti logical anti reason and anti science
based

>>13427206
>>right reason logic and science
Didn't say that.

>>13427227
>Modern leftish philosophers tend to dismiss reason, science, objective reality and to insist that everything is culturally relative.
It's implicit

>>13427233
>Modern leftish philosophers tend to dismiss reason, science, objective reality and to insist that everything is culturally relative. It is true that one can ask serious questions about the foundations of scientific knowledge and about how, if at all, the concept of objective reality can be defined. But it is obvious that modern leftish philosophers are not simply cool-headed logicians systematically analyzing the foundations of knowledge. They are deeply involved emotionally in their attack on truth and reality. They attack these concepts because of their own psychological needs. For one thing, their attack is an outlet for hostility, and, to the extent that it is successful, it satisfies the drive for power.
It's not, criticizing one side is not elevating the other. He's definitely not a right-winger.

>>13427273
Yeah you're right. I was wrong in applying that paragraph in the current context of right-wingers claiming to be pro-science, pro-logic and pro-reason

>>13425740

>>13427522
I said left of center. I'm not a communist

If the left is anti science then why are Republicans the ones denying climate change?
Europeans need not respond

>>13427713
>If the left is anti science then why are Republicans the ones denying climate change?

politics is a farce

>>13427522
Bezmenov is a CIA nigger shill

>>13427863

https://vocaroo.com/i/s0RnTMZuuimp

:3

>>13427867
What he's describing there is behavior that exists in pretty much all people not just the "demoralized"". People refusing to see things clearly for various reasons is a common thing.

>>13427867
>Bezmenov
remember the entire /pol/tard worldview is based on a proven lying traitor scum

>>13425687
It's not so much that post-modernity insists that everything is culturally relative, its that proponents of "reason, science and objective reality" are often at the centre of the butcher's yard. Absolute definition is equivalent to the violence of the law of noncontradiction, which can be picked apart if we apply the heap argument. a meadow is made up of meadow (place in the spatiotemporal sense) and not-meadow (space, the flowers, bees, grass, ec.). Remove all of the latter elements and you technically still have a meadow. Yet "reason" would dictate you turn the barren land into a parking lot. To only attempt to know a thing by everything that it is, is to brutally decapitate your ability to apprehend everything that it isn't. It isn't an emotional response to reason, its a navigation through reason's tendency to allow itself to progress unchecked.

>>13426919
What is a boy and girl? Apparant;y lefists cannot tell me. Race determines intelligence? Preposteroes a leftist will tell me.

>>13428182
>the trans issue
no serious scientist buys the existence of gender; instead, they see it as the mental disorder called dysphoria, the cure to which is full physical and social transition
>"scientific" racism
in other words,
>how dare scientists not buy my extremely dated pseudoscience!!!

american left and right-wing politics are both anti-intellectual, anti-science etc. because they're both operating out of the Evangelical Christian worldview, leftish ones just denounced God as a misogynist and perhaps even a bigot or homophobe sometime around 1968.

>>13425687
Does he provide examples, sources, citations of these leftists he refers to, or is he just attacking some vague boogeyman?
Every excerpt I've read of his is just full of unqualified sweeping generalizations. Brainlets eat it up because it affirms their bullshit opinions.

>>13428236

>>13425740
stop by the English department sometime.

>>13427713
leftism controls science organizations, media, and movements.

But politically motivated individuals don't care about objective truth, they just like that science is an authority people trusts and it serves their goals.

>>13426288
Uhhhh. How many platonic reasoners on the left? Fucking retard.

>>13427985
This "heap argument" is absurd.

Non-contradiction specifically refers to contradictory predicates of the form P or not P.
By definition, you can't include a "bucket" of unrelated predicates in there.

The example of a "meadow" is awful because its already horribly defined. A meadow is clearly a social convention used to describe a pattern of land, not a predicate that must be true or false.

Try this one. Can a number be divisible by 2 and not divisible by 2?

>>13426919
How many genders are there? And when is global warming going to kill us all again?

>>13428236
NPC

>>13427985
Go read Metaphysics 4

> it is absurd to seek to give an account of our views to one who cannot give an account of anything, in so far as he cannot do so. For such a man, as such, is from the start no better than a vegetable

>>13425740
I don't get it either. I've spent the past ten years in academia studying geology, virtually everyone I interact with is an academic, most of us lean to the left, and yet we all highly value reason, science, and objectivity. It seems those right-wingers who attack leftists think we all have persecution complexes and play the identity politics game. Well, no. The more informed among us know that identity politics has from the start been an outgrowth of right-wing politics. Our aims are more universal, less exclusionary, though not completely anti-hierarchical. The right would know that if they looked more objectively at their political opponents rather than at the caricatures they've invented.

>>13428931

Tell me, are these any things you agree with?

> Women and minorities deserve academic jobs more than white people.
> history is mostly about white people colonizing things. Colonizers are evil.
> all humans are equal and there couldn't possibly by genetic justifications for difference (eg. one group actually tends to be less intelligent.)
> right wingers are just ignorant. If they were educated they would believe the same as us.
> speech and activism against global warming should be legally opposed.
> the environment is being destroyed by human activity. humans and especially white people should feel guilt for how they are living.

You can't see the state religion when you're a full participant in it.

>>13428544
that's great because nowhere does Ted endorse right wing politics.

>>13428968

Kaczynski tried to tell us.

Yes

>>13426192
This.

>>13428968
> Women and minorities deserve academic jobs more than white people.
No.
> history is mostly about white people colonizing things. Colonizers are evil.
No.
> all humans are equal and there couldn't possibly by genetic justifications for difference (eg. one group actually tends to be less intelligent.)
All people are genetically different from one another and have propensities and aptitudes unique to themselves. The way we group people is always crude, as are our methods for determining intelligence. Neither tends to be very useful. Better we look at people individually.
> right wingers are just ignorant. If they were educated they would believe the same as us.
That depends on the right winger.
> speech and activism against global warming should be legally opposed.
No. Let them make fools of themselves.
> the environment is being destroyed by human activity. humans and especially white people should feel guilt for how they are living.
The environment is being destroyed by human activity. Feeling guilty about it does us no good, but certain industries should be better regulated.

>>13428182
That's social science

>>13429057
do you think these would be controversial views in your department? Would you share them at dinner?

>>13429072
If not, tell me what school your at so I can get a job there. Because its real where I did grad sch

>>13425740
>dribble

>>13429057
utterly based, it warms my heart to see actually sane center leftism without idpol on this damnèd board for once

>>13429076
Not him but I'm curious where you are from. I've lived in major cities on the US west coast (so all blue states) and the stereotypical SJW is incredibly rare, even in academia. I'm not denying that they don't exist, they do, but I've encountered so few of them, even in academia, that I honestly don't know how this stereotype persists.

And I have no idea why the right likes Kaczynski so much, he clearly doesn't agree with right wing politics (even ignoring that his ideas generally aren't political at all) and calls conservatives fools, he didn't even do that for leftists.

>>13431133
>that I honestly don't know how this stereotype persists.

twitter

>DURRRRRRR YA YOU MIGHT BE RIGHT BUT YOU'RE ONLY SAYING IT CAUSE YOU WANT POWER AND SHIT
This is /lit/'s favourite thinker? This guy? Serious? Anyone who thinks this is a takedown is an abject brainlet that should have their posting privileges revoked.

>>13431133
*I'm not denying that they exist

>>13431141
Fair enough. I just don't know why people pretend like those types of people are all over the place (at least irl) when they certainly aren't.

Yes, and an even better takedown can be found in Fr. Seraphim Rose's book "Nihilism: the root of revolution in the modern age"
Stating "there are no universal claims" is itself a universal claim. Also, the scientific method has no tools for justifying its own validity. Hence modern fedoras saying philosophy is dead. They would just prefer not to notice that the emperor has no clothes

>>13431148
If you reduce something to its most minuscule form anything sounds ridiculous.

>>13428896
>A meadow is clearly a social convention used to describe a pattern of land, not a predicate that must be true or false.
That's why I made the pertinent joke that a barren meadow could be "reasonably" defined as a parking lot. Reduce the notion of place to "a social convention" and what you're left with is the arid plains of the fisher king, which is so often a criticism levied at postmodernism, yet it is the rationalists who would seek to purge the world of its natural enchantment. Ontic definitions of objects are necessarily fuzzy because of the gap between thinking and being. If a meadow was so easy to define we'd do a much better job of protecting our natural landscapes.

>>13428917
>For such a man, as such, is from the start no better than a vegetable
Go read Dark Ecology, there's no reason (besides anthropocentric delusion) to suggest we have some privileged platform among nonhuman entities.

>>13431133
>that I honestly don't know how this stereotype persists
Because it's an ideological fantasy created to structure the subject's beliefs. They need the SJW to exist because otherwise their own ideology lacks coherence.

>>13431957
Makes sense.

>>13428891
>platonic reasoners
kek

>>13425687
>muh, postmodernism is one person
is pic related a postmodernist takedown of postmodernism?