/lit/ - Literature

Because man refuses to live like animals.
t. Ludwig II

>>13420948
It's not that it doesn't exist, per se, it's just a false God. You can't find goodness in material things, you can catch glimpses of it but if you want to find peace you must seek higher. This consumerist culture has turned us into untrusting vapid short attention spanned materialist. It's horrid.

Define what physical is without it being contingent on our current understanding of physics, which may be updated

>>13420948
If you look at Maslow's hierarchy of needs he got a lot of things right - however there is one key aspect he (and others) leave out.
You see ahuman is composed of 3 components - 1) Physical; You go to the gym, you eat healthy (whatever that means), you have sex/post body. 2) Mental; Beyond physical you need to be stimulated intellectually. "Food for thought". 3) Spirit; Your soul is not of this world ergo the nourishment of your soul is not found in worldly things. If you truly reflect you'll know deep down that there is a purpose for you being here beyond the fulfilment of animalistic desires. Your physical body will soon perish but your soul will move on and live forever - accept this truth and you can go from there...

>And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind.

>>13420948
I'm quitting /lit/ and 4chan so I might as well show you the path of liberation before I leave:
https://www.thenewatlantis.com/publications/what-neuroscience-cannot-tell-us-about-ourselves
https://www.thenewatlantis.com/publications/what-consciousness-is-not

>>13420948
When we observe a thing, we see too much in it, we fall under the spell of the wealth of empirical detail which prevents us from clearly perceiving the notional determination which forms the core of the thing.

>>13420948
It can't, and in this century, neuroscience will probably kill ideas like free will and souls for good.

>>13420948
Physical laws make no sense. I’m convinced they originate from logic, or mathematics.

>>13421073
It's literally unimpossible to abdisprove free will or the soul, you stupid spastic mongoloidal cretin. Do you even understand metaphysics? At least watch some Ben Shapiro, maybe he'll simplify things enough to get them through your thick skull.

>>13421094
>he still believes he makes decisions free of outside interference and purely from a supernatural position

>>13421073
>neuroscience will probably kill ideas like free will
LOL
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/2158244016674515
http://jcn.cognethic.org/jcnv4i2_Kastrup.pdf
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1053810009001135

>>13420948
How can anything be proven to be true? Materialism only works on the assumption that what we perceive is a reliable view of “reality”

>>13421103
The fact that you made this low quality post is proof that free will and the soul don't abexist, you retarded bastard.

>>13421112

>>13421094
>disprove
I said kill those ideas. No one ever disproved alfs in Iceland, but no one gives a shit about it anymore.

What is there other than material? Do you guys think there is some supernatural force dictating your actions?

>>13421212
Material can’t explain its own existence

>>13420948
>>>/his/
>>>/sci/

>>13421023
This. If you can't do this then materalism is an unfalsifiable hypothesis. You can always just define anything new you discover as being part of the materialist worldview.

>>13421073
lmao free will has been dead for centuries now, read some Nietzsche.

>>13421103
Relativism is not subjectivity

>>13420948
It can't.

And posts like
>>13421044
>>13421046
>>13421094
>>13421104
>>13422872
are just proof of how illiterate /lit/ is on this subject. obviously dilettantes with no experience of academia whatsoever

materialism is such an established fact that it is assumed as a given in all modern investigations into conscious whether its from a mathematical perspective or neurobiological.

it's obvious everything is material and brain processes produce subjectivity. now the question is just how they do it.

anyone arguing for freewill, idealism, or immaterial anything these days are just testifying to their own ignorance on the subjects.

>>13420948
are logic and math contained in matter?

>>13422895
> it's obvious everything is material and brain processes produce subjectivity
> everything is material

Words and numbers are not material which you then trace back to brain processes, describe it again and again. It's like proving that mathematics, as a system, is objectively true, but then how do you prove the new one? By creating another one of course, and so on... where is the end and explanation for that?

> anyone arguing for freewill, idealism, or immaterial anything these days are just testifying to their own ignorance on the subjects.

Isn't ignorance part of the scientific method, that is, one has to know that one does not know something to be able to engage on the journey of discovery? Is this not the reason how and why society progresses? I mean, values and things change and evolve again and again. I talk about, as exampe, Lakatos' Idea that Science is that which progresses, to which I don't fully subscribe, but you get the point. Also, please point me to a paper or article (I'm not trying to be rude by any means, but am highly interested in the subject) to the people who finally 'solved consciousness'. To my knowledge we are still wrestling with these things, and no, materialism does not seem to be the solution, or at least not materialism in our current understanding. I might be wrong, please enlighten me.

>>13422895
I hope you find God one day.

>>13422929
>Words and numbers are not material which you then trace back to brain processes
but they can and are and have been for years.

pic related is helpful. a bit dated and dumb but still, decades ahead of what the average tard on /lit/ arguing against materialism knows.

How come I feel sad and distant every time a think about questions like this?

choo choo

>>13421005
>You can't find goodness in material things, you can catch glimpses of it but if you want to find peace you must seek higher.
Source?

>>13421094
Cope

>>13422984
Cope

If you have free will, then try writing something original.

>>13422939
Yes, there are reasons why one would think materialism is right, but to assume that it's the final answer, to me, seems to be going in the same vein and flaws as religion does. Again, point me to the work that solved it, not a part of it that "numbers and words are material too" but "We solved it, numbers and words and thoughts and all is material". There's plenty of people in the field that disagree, or, at least have troube to accept materialism as the final answer.

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/cross-check/is-scientific-materialism-almost-certainly-false/
http://opensciences.org/blogs/open-sciences-blog/232-consciousness-why-materialism-fails
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/out-the-darkness/201203/the-madness-materialism

With all honestly and respect, I think that materialism is, in the end, just another non-materialistic religious belief

(btw, I'm not implying that there's no such thing as empirical facts and so on....)

>>13423010
>Thomas Nagel

>>13420948
Prove it's true.

>>13421212
Define material. Is energy material?

>>13423010
>>13422939
>>13422895
You faggots can’t realize both, that’s how retarded all of you are. There is no free will by you can still have spirit. Somehow this universe exists, and it’s fucking magic at how any of it really does. If you don’t believe in something outside of whatever our universe is, then you’re a depressed fuck who either needs to convert or kill yourself before slowing down the movement towards conscious enlightenment.

itt: bugmen

bump

>>13422005
Lmao what? If you define/discover something new, it is because you've falsified the old theory. Some hardcore projection from idealists, a philosophy that is literally unfalsifiable.

>>13422939
If numbers are solely brain processes
(Undergrad tier position btw)
Then what do you call two hydrogen atoms mixing to become 1 helium (with twice as many corresponding parts as each individual hydrogen atom)? This happening very soon after big bang, hmmmmm? Even if u argue solipsism it still must follow that correct meta/physics in order for everything else in ur solipsistic world to work.

Libtard owned

Show me an object, materialistically.

>>13424200
Sad confirmation that idealism is just nothing more than a cope

>>13422979
I guess a good example is when you're horny about something you don't want to jerk to, but as you get into it your rationalizations start and you actually start to convince yourself it's good. If you meditate it is prior to senses and intellectualizations. So it shows how you're entrapped to your body yet how your being is much higher, granted you can apply this to anything like being mad.

Now finding your being isn't the end, it's one step closer to God, who is the source of goodness and peace. So recommend the bible and any meditation books and eventually philosophy of language

>>13422895
>why aren't you part of our science cult of modern day academia
Good one

>>13425708
He's saying that the abstract concepts of words and numbers exist as brain processes.
Ones we evolved because they help us structure perception of material phenomena, like seeing 1 vs 2 dogs. Or 1 vs 2 atoms.
Wtf is your point anyways, how is nuclear fusion outside the scope of materialism?

>>13425732
He said the concept of math is purely cognitive and if nuclear fusion, which has happened prior to living beings and certainly man, necessitates an objective math then it can't be purely cognitive. In fact, if it was, then we'd have a potentially infinite different kinds of 1+1=2.

Now considering math is not materialistic at all and it is prior (you can represent infinity or zero or halves or perfect circle in math but not material world) this means we have our first immaterial object that he must accept

What if I believe that this universe and anything in it is entirely material but there is a transcendent God who most certainly isn't?

>>13425719
...yet materialism does not explain "copes" away and only proves that the fact is not that materialists don't believe in anything, but that they cannot believe in anything and are, in fact, devoid from the experience of what it means to be human.

>>13420948
is time material? If so, where is it?

>>13425817
And what is it made of?

>>13425753
Math is cognitive. Nuclear fusion needs the laws of physics, which may have been written by God, but they don't need math, which is an abstraction we invented by separating it from its material instantiations.

>if it was, then we'd have a potentially infinite different kinds of 1+1=2.
We do have "potentially infinite" kinds of 1+1=2.
We have 一 + 一 = 二 in Chinese
Or I + I = II in Roman
If one dog walks up to another dog, you have I + I = II dogs. You will never have III or IV dogs, because the laws of physics don't work that way

After god started our simulation it's all been material. Including our consciousness, where math and language reside.

>>13425822
All the materialist left couldn't handle bants

It's bible posting thread now, you can post other religions

Favorite verse: colossians 1:15

>>13425828
Laws of physics needs math and logic. Whatever objective thing that math does is what objective, non cognitive math is.

>examples
Those are bad because they represent the same thing. To be purely cognitive pi4th sqrt of 6 times 4 + potatoedemon = 2, and I mean a literal potatodemon not a stand in for 1. Ppl with schizophrenia would have drastically different correct maths and our universe would fall apart and break everytime we found out something "new".

If consciousness was all there was then how can we not cognitively surpass logic or physics, why are we beholden to it?

>>13425756
>yet materialism does not explain "copes"
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/belief-and-the-brains-god-spot-1641022.html

>cannot believe in anything and are, in fact, devoid from the experience of what it means to be human.
This is true and why i spend my days off taking LSD and crawling back into the sea where we never should have left

>>13420948

>>13420948
Because materialism is a substance theory and is the based on the ground of reality being things-in-themselves, i.e. what remains when all specific relations are ignored. It contradicts the premise of naturalism that "nothing comes from nowhere" and thus nothing can be considered in its fullness detached from its situatedness in respect to others things - but as this relational situatedness is constantly changing, so is the object.

>>13421212
>What is there other than material? Do you guys think there is some supernatural force dictating your actions?

Process and relations: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Q6cDp0C-I8

>>13425857
Yeah I agree with you, the laws of physics do seem to contain objective order, some of which we've effectively captured in our cognitive conception of Math. Which is why we've been able to use Math to predict so much in the natural world.

I don't see what that has to do with the purely material case for consciousness though, which is what that guy was originally talking about, by finding material instantiations in the brain of concepts that otherwise would exist entirely in abstract (words, numbers)

Yes, nature also has plenty of material instantiations of math as well. I would certainly put math alongside God's other laws of physics.

>>13420948
matter is frozen energy

>>13425937
I love these types of videos so much dude. Thank you.

>>13426078
Sure I accept parts of essences can be found materially through cognition, he was responding to me saying relativism is not subject so I was rebutting

>>13425754
Then you'd be most christians, retard.

>>13426324
Most Christians believe in an immaterial soul and spiritual beings like angels & demons, no?

>>13424381
t.

>>13421073
>science will kill ideas
Good luck, postmodernism birthed the renaissance of flat earth believers.

1+1 = 2
1+1 = 3
Both are materially 'correct', as in, they exist. However, both refer to something immaterial, in which 'falsehood' even exists.

>>13422895
>it's obvious
cool pressuposition bro
how can I expect a world view to be true when it can't even explain the most basic facts such as say, why do things in nature take the path of least resistance e.g. electricity flows best in conductors with the least resistance? because it's "obvious" but why is it so?
science will never decipher this because science is totally and absolutely useless when it comes to observing truth
scientists are just glorified bean counters or sophists

What is matter anyway?

>>13423010
>Thomas Nagel
Dropped

If it works for you, thats where you are right now.
Your view might change, or it might not, and it doesnt really matter anyway.

>>13420948
is not untrue but it´s not the end of all of it

>>13427412
>>13423047
Nagel's great in The View From Nowhere actually.

>>13425873
Based