/lit/ - Literature

FALSE DICHOTOMIES

>>13421020
I choose buddhism.

>>13421020
Just be a christian instead of this dumb nonsense lol but forget to Believe in god

I’d rather keep it real

>>13421051
I love this picture, thank you

>>13421020
>vegan antinatalist
So a cuck, no thanks

>life-denying vs. life-affirming

>>13421139
>reality vs fiction

>>13421172
If you want to deny life then kys

>>13421172
>defeatism and mediocre complacency vs. the possibiliy of a higher form of living however low the odds

>life is so bad we shouldn't have kids
>ok kill yourself then
>n-no

>>13421322
complete non sequitur

>>13421423
If life is worse than death then why choose life?

If you remain alive then you are passively admitting that life is better than death or you are just too much of a coward to kill yourself.

I have never understood anti-natalism though I love life and I love living. Everything about life is amazing even the pain and torment becomes wonderful given enough time. I think back on all the heartbreaks I had when I was younger and I almost wish I could go back and feel it all again.

>>13421264
Suicide is not at all a sign of the want to deny the will to live, in fact it might be its highest expression

>>13421530
You need to remain to educate people about antinatalism.

>>13421615
Only in very specific circumstances like for Werther or Romeo. Suicide is not life affirming if you just dont like being alive.

>>13421530

You've made an incorrect assumption that living things "choose life"
Living things including humans have built in survival instincts assuming their bodies are working as intended
This is pretty much the major crux of why it's immoral to create life you are creating something only for it to become subject to a doctrine in which it immediately forfeits control
Living things are born to be cowards guard their lives at all cost and then reproduce life itself is a completely forced and uncontrollable phenomenon if you believe you chose any of this that's just a comforting lie

>>13421620

Ah, yes. Just like the dictators needed to remain in charge to educate the masses about socialism.
Live by your words or no one cares.

>>13421670
Imagine being too pathetic to even kill yourself. If you experience this world as something too painful and terrible to bear and yet you continue to exist out of sheer cowardice then you really do deserve to die and I sincerely hope someone assists you in that matter.

You also should under no circumstances reproduce. Your children would also probably be just as pathetic and weak as you are.

I just honestly cant imagine someone seeing this world as something other than an absolutely and supremely amazing experience. But I do have to admit it always seems like those who never do anything with their life try to cling to it the most so I guess it makes sense.

>>13422344

You know it would be more palatable if you could just accept that life is not great or special in any way but quietly espouse that you are willing to put up with it for lack of any greater direction or motivation
This is in fact what most people do subconsciously
But what people like you are experiencing is like a form of Stockholm syndrome and it's just a bit sad to see
You've been held captive since birth (which is of course part of the reason why this has become so ingrained) and become so enamored with your captor that you've begun to enjoy being held captive even to the point where you will gleefully bring more into this world in the vain hope that they will experience the same
Just know that there is a good chance they will not
They will likely end up like the average person I have described above and you will have committed a selfish act and likely suffer some consequences for doing so

>>13421322
>Reach antinatilism because of ethics.
>Embrace self murder against all ethics


>>13421530
Wow great for you anon. Tell the woman being gangraped in some shithole or man being tortured that. I'm sure theyll see how lucky they are.

>>13423075
>to live is to suffer
>choose to continue to suffer
Based retardbro. Your "ideaology" is maximum incel cope.

>>13423075
Finding joy in suffering is what separates those who deserve life and those who do not. All of us have experienced some horrible trauma or some suffering and we can either choose to overcome it or be consumed by it. Many people have succumbed to a much smaller amount of suffering that another man would easily overcome. Suffering is a fact of life you can use it to build you up and make you a better person and achieve greater things or you can let it destroy you and whine about it like a little bitch.

>>13422497
If that's how you need to rationalize your own massive patheticness. You just honestly believe that everyone is as shitty and sad as you. Fortunately it's not true.

>>13421020
For real veganism is the path my brothers

>"yeah bro just lift, just accept that life will always be filled with rape, murder, and mass suffering for all sentient beings and its issues are inherent to the structure of sentient life, dont be such a downer lmao
>"yeah bro, implying that people shouldnt have kids because those kids cant consent to this suffering filled life is defeatist, you should impose life on as many people as you want even if you cant financially support them cus dude save the white race lmao"
>"dude animals dont matter cus like humans are smart lmao, dude bacon lmao, get mad vegcuck"
>"dude dont end the world lmao, that would be like omnicide dude, that bad cus like uh killing is bad... even though I do it all the time and support a system (life) that allows for this and further injustices and suffering to continue."

>>13423273
Suffering is not joy, joy is not suffering, if you find joy in suffering it's not suffering.

>>13423503
You can do whatever you want, I really dont care. I dont care if other people suffer or who consented to what. None of it in the least bothers me. There is only what I see as great and beautiful and I will work to create more beautiful and great things in any capacity that I can.

You and the rest of your kind can wallow in sorrow, slaves always have suffered for their betters, but just know that if you were born rich and famous or lived two hundred years ago as an aristocrat you would have never even begun to think about antinatalism.

You think that this is a universal ethic but the only reason you believe this is because you happened to be born a loser in an age after the fall of christianity and well in the grip of nihilism. You're a loser who has been swept away into the same ideological drain that our entire civilization is spiraling towards. This is not some universal truth that you have uncovered. This entire viewpoint is just that; a viewpoint based on your very particular life and circumstances surrounding it. Maybe try to get some perspective.

>>13423503
the problem of evil is very ancient anon, I think it is best approached from the perspective of valuing that good exists at all, it can redeem the harm we all endure.

>>13423503
how are your folks doing?

>>13423522
Suffering and joy are not in any way opposites. In fact they are almost the same thing, two sides of the same coin. You cannot have great joy without overcoming great suffering.

Just like you cant write a great book without a great conflict. Pain is essential to pleasure.

The best life is one that leaps wildly between the two and never spends time in the middle.

>>13423544
Take one moment from your life that you enjoy and realize that all the suffering you went through had to have happened for you to get to that point of joy. The entire universe had to be the way it is for you to have experienced that. If you truly value that moment then you intrinsically have to also value all the evil that lead to its creation.

Hold that moment of joy close to you and all of life will be affirmed and have meaning.

>>13423556

can you define the upper limits of pure joy and pure pain, my hedonist friend? would pure joy be something like getting high and watching rick and morty, and then HAVING SEX? would pure pain be something like being forced to read yet another retarded materialist thread on /lit/?

>>13423538
>>You think that this is a universal ethic but the only reason you believe this is because you happened to be born a loser in an age after the fall of christianity and well in the grip of nihilism. You're a loser who has been swept away into the same ideological drain that our entire civilization is spiraling towards. This is not some universal truth that you have uncovered. This entire viewpoint is just that; a viewpoint based on your very particular life and circumstances surrounding it. Maybe try to get some perspective.
Oh wise successful anon show us how successful you are, I bet you get all the pussy and have a hot wife. The truth is, your just as much a loser as anyone on /lit/ you basically say "if you had been born into better circumstances you would have a different ethical belief than the one you currently hold and therefore that invalidates your ethical system. Well guess what, it doesn't. You believing in your bullshit isnt invalidated by the circumstances you grew up in either, your view is bullshit cus Its bullshit. Your morality is a fake, a spook if you will. You arent really above laws, you just wish you were.

>>"This entire viewpoint is just that; a viewpoint based on your very particular life and circumstances surrounding it."

Literally all viewpoints retard

>>13423544
Redeem the harm? There is no redeeming rape, pedophilia, torture, mass oppression, even if we could it would not be worth it as the only way to truly be sure of ending suffering is to end all sentient life.

>>13423547
Pretty well thanks for asking anon.

>>13423556
>>"two sides of the same coin. You cannot have great joy without overcoming great suffering."

Hahahhahahahahhaha

The same coin argument, yuck. Yes you obviously need some guidelines to base your happiness on, (there needs to be a flow of some sort) but wildly fluctuating from suffering and happiness is not good, less suffering is good, even nessesarry suffering only exists as a means of preventing future greater sufferings.

>>13423556

also i don't think you can take a non-dual approach to joy and suffering without divorcing yourself completely from the experience itself. you're basically trying to say whether you realize it or not that you need to actually enjoy your suffering in order to get to some possibly higher joy that follows, or acknowledge some higher joy that preceded the suffering. so my nietzche disciple, the only way that your approach actually works is if you manage to figure out a way to enjoy all sensory input and claim it as good. which none of us that are unenlightened and not brain dead are capable of doing

>>13423588
A lot of great people are capable of thinking like this on a pretty regular basis. Even just in the small scale you overcome the pain of leaving your bed and not lazing about in order to say make some nice bread you will eat in the future. People will often not only enjoy the bread but enjoy the painful process that goes with it. It's the same with lifting weights. It also works with video games. The despair of failure and the threat of failure have to exist for you to even enjoy winning. If a game was patched so you couldn't lose you would never play. Anything that is of any value has to come at the price of pain or the risk of pain.

You can scale this up to more grander things in life. All the pain and terrible things that happened in my life lead to this point and right now I'm not feeling suffering. I'm sitting back with a drink in my hand next to a girl I love. All the heartbreak and shitty hard work I had to go through to get here was all worth it just for this drink. I almost want something terrible to happen just so I have to go through those incredible feelings again. Especially the thrill of horrible, sobbing, inconsolable heartache. It's all so good. All of life is so good. I would do all of it again in a second. My only regret is that I cant go around a second time. Heaven for me would just be an eternal life down here in this world with all of its wonderful flaws.

>>13423075
>huu huu why wont this guy just get it, life is bad cause we cant stop bad things from happening to EVERYONE
fuck off and die faggot

>>13423658
People will often not only enjoy the bread but enjoy the painful process that goes with it.
They may enjoy aspects but they do not enjoy the painful aspects, and if they do enjoy parts of the painful aspects this is because they would suffer other pains (boredom, emptiness, etc.) If these pains werent there. It's the same with video games and working out, but they exist as a means of again, suffering minorly to avoid major suffering.

Anything that is of any values comes at risk of pain sure, but maybe life isnt worth it if this always has to be the price.


>>"All the heartbreak and shitty hard work I had to go through to get here was all worth it just for this drink.I almost want something terrible to happen just so I have to go through those incredible feelings again. Especially the thrill of horrible, sobbing, inconsolable heartache"

Who knows maybe this girl you claim to love will have a heart attack right now and because "it would make your life more interesting" youd have to deal with that. Or shed develop leukemia, and die slowly in front of you each day, if that happens and you didnt regret the words you said right now youd be a psycho.

Who knows maybe she'll cheat on you and fuck your best friend or whatever, maybe you mean nothing to her deep deep down. Maybe she hates you.

Either way regardless one day she will die or you will die and one or the other will have to deal with that loss. You'll spend every fuckint day or your life thinking about them, crawling into a corner bawling sobbing, nothing can make you feel again. You'll feel nothing but terror and pain, but hey its life and I guess all things in life are always good my man. If you enjoy the thrill, then you arent fully suffering.

>>13423677
Life is bad you nigger, cus you exist

>>13423690
I will thank you. I'm not afraid of any of it. Whatever may come I'll face it head on knowing I'll be better and stronger for it. I really just wish I had more time in this world to experience more things good or bad.

>>13423721
At least dont force this on some kids who donr yet exist. If you're gonna be this dumb just adopt please.

>>13423694
almost had me there

>>13421020
Prophet Mani was a vegan antinatalist, but Buddha was not really.

>>13423729
So we need to deny people from the highs and lows thinking that their life will be more miserable?
Why would we put expectations on people that their life willl, on average, be more suffering than pleasure or overcoming?
That type of thinking reeks of self hatred and mediocrity, we need to think that, whoever comes next in line, can have the tools to be more successful in life, because we can then nurture someone with a weak will that will only be a drag to others in life.
We should strive to make Chads the norm in life, not think that we can only nurture Incels or that Inceldom is the default status of humans.

>>13423729
Nah I'll raise my kids to love the struggle as much as the reward. If you believe life is good and meaningful it will be for you, if you believe that it is suffering and meaningless then it will be for you. Just please make sure you never have kids, they'd probably just turn out as worthless and miserable as you are

>>13421139
You don’t understand Buddhism

>>13423757
This has nothing to do with inceldom, yes helping others be better is good and bettering yourself is good, but you need to recognize that suffering has more power. Various studies have shown this. Not bad things (neutral things happen all the time, good things happen occasionally. But when bad things happen often it distorts all those good things)

>>13423758
I wont. But I hope you are infertile as your kids may have a disease that will kill them within a year or two, that would be horrible. But I guess youd be cool with it. Psycho.

>>13423783
so the subjective distortion of life makes it unbearable?
that doesn't make much sense, because the personal not of what happens to me doesn't mean that the life of another person isn't worth living. Everything comes back to a matter of perspective and subjectivity, we can't make conclusions about others because something is bad to us.
All of that is based on subjective presupositions that we don't have any evidence of but your studies without source. And I'm highly skeptical of any scientific study that concludes what you are arguing, since most, if not all social scientists will never claim something so weird like that, I'm pretty sure the conclusions much more smaller.

And even then, the point is that bad things have a strong short term effect (which is, well, obvious, if they didn't we wouldn't even classify them as bad, maybe just as neutral, they need to have a percieved effect to be considered bad), while good things do not last for so long. Isn't that what Goethe wrote? something along the lines of:
>I've never had a period of 2 weeks where my life has been good.
but even then he was THE vitalistic pimp of his time, he is a good counterexample, someone who understood how bad things are, yet enjoyed life. That is, if you agree with human experience being objective and universal.

Even then suicide is your better option, because life is unbearable to you, but you can't ever know how bad it is for me, your kids or any other person in the world. Maybe you got dealt the worse hand in the world? I will never know, but for you it seems likely.

>>13423576
Why not kys then? You're perpetuating suffering just by existing even if you are a vegan. Why is your life more important than all of those who you continuously end?

>>13421020
Nietzsche