/lit/ - Literature

first for zyzz

Have you started reading it yet?

>>13402997
>Why do you think there is a dearth of good sword and sorcery books in modern fantasy?
Bloated, dull epic fantasy door-stoppers became the norm and S&S fell out of favor.
>Post some not so well known ones.
The Chronicles of Caylen-Tor. The prose is purple as fuck (even uses the dreaded word "ichor" that postmodernist faggots said writers shouldn't use) and it's filled with unironic and undistilled Sword & Sorcery ripped right out of the 1970s. Only recommended for hardcore S&S chads though.
>Tell us what you're currently reading.
Imaro Book One. African S&S and pretty damn good. It slows down a bit in the middle, but it's starting to pick up again. Though before I started reading it I was under the impression it was going to be a collection of short stories unlike Conan, but it's really just one long linear story broken up into several short stories. Still good though and it's refreshing to read some fantasy in a setting that isn't European.

is Rosewater good?

It's a pity, I'd love to read fantasy but nowadays it's only doorstoppers and sagas. I can't focus on something for this long, I need to finish books and move on quickly. Most of the SF I read is standalones or trilogies at most... Is there a go to for classic sword & sorcery dungeon crawling books that aren't teen stuff?

>>13402997
>Why do you think there is a dearth of good sword and sorcery books in modern fantasy?
Because men don't read any more and publishers aren't a charity.

>>13403221
>and publishers aren't a charity.
I guess that's why they publish so much SJW trash that sells like shit.

has anyone managed to read pic related yet? about to pick up a copy

>>13403229
pic related

>>13403228
There's more to capital than just financial.

>sword and autism poster
ffs its a genre that died a lifetime ago and anything new that fits it isn't classified as such, it's like asking why there's not many noir films anymore

>>13403278
>and anything new that fits it isn't classified as such
???????????????

>>13403199
Look at this adhd brainlet

>>13403228
>sells like shit
Guess how I know you don't live in this society? SJW YA sagas sell like fucking crack my man, most basedboys and art hoes literally fucking devour these books. I'm talking 10 books a week or more.
It's like a fucking contest. Just because you don't spend time in this circle doesn't mean they aren't there, but I'm telling you stuff like urban fantasy and shit are very popular.

I pretty much can't read western SF & Fantasy anymore. It's almost all written by and targeted at unlikeable elderly american politicals and what gets published is unironically decided by aging women and homos by most accounts.
Pretty much anything published after Jack Vance's death has had zero appeal to me.

Anyone looking for a fix of what older fantasy and SF gave them i'd advise checking out chink webnovels, Xianxia in particular. Lots of it is power fantasies only somewhat better than Rothfuss's shit but there's plenty of gems in there too.

>>13402997
slaughter house five (the children's crusade)TM doesn't involve time travel, they guy goes crazy from his trauma and reading so many fantasy books sort of like that book by sir vantes. why are so many of the books on the sci-fi list super soft sci-fi? is it hard to write a deeply sci-fi book?

Has any author done the 'dying earth' subgenre any justice since Pringles Man and BotNS?

I quite like the idea of the setting, but where do you go with it after Wolfe? It's kind of like how poetry nearly ground to a halt for fifty years after Milton wrote Paradise Lost - how do you continue something that has more or less been concluded by a previous author?

>>13402997
>that npr list
>don't read Tolkien if you know fantasy "tropes"

is this a joke? reddit ruined the world.

>>13403704
I have no idea if they exist but were any books written for the d&d setting of dark sun?

>>13403699
>why are so many of the books on the sci-fi list super soft sci-fi? is it hard to write a deeply sci-fi book?
I'll give my opinion on it. Most of the great scifi books were written by people who were first and foremost great authors who just happen to be telling a story that required a certain amount of science fiction to set the scene, and to give the story/characters the right parameters to put across the ideas that the author was trying to discuss through their writing.

With the general decline in art over the last 50 years or so (books, tv, movies, 'fine art' etc. all steadily becoming worse and worse) and the move towards a more commercialised view of publishing the 'great' authors were/are pushed aside in favour of ones who will pump out work consistently and appeal to a large audience. Hence, we end up with reddit-tier, slightly or fully autistic manchildren who are writing scifi books not because they're great writers with a transcendent message to get across that can only be done in a scifi setting, but because they pore over minutiae and world-building and magic systems and future tech and space colony politics and so on. The autist as author.

Aside from maybe Blindsight, I don't think there's been anything close to a masterpiece of hard scifi in a very long time. And hell, I genuinely love Blindsight but even I'll admit it's written by a cringey reddit author and suffers from a lot of poor writing tropes like 2D characters and shitty humour that reads like retards trying to imitate a mix of rick and morty and douglas adams.

>>13403694
have you read every fantasy book written before 2000 or something? just keep reading old fantasy like a normal person you nigger. or are you just trying to shill chink shit?

>>13403725
Troy Denning did some iirc.
Weren't that good though, like most D&D tie-ins.

>>13403752
>Most of the great scifi books were written by people who were first and foremost great authors who just happen to be telling a story that required a certain amount of science fiction to set the scene,
Those aren't great SF, they're "important," sort of like when regular lit authors write "magical realism" since they want to try fantasy but don't want the reputation hit. They're debutantes, in other words, beginners, dudes in the old sense, and they don't know science or engineering they know "the human condition" (iow how to make other litcritters applaud how edgy they got). And of course people who don't actually read see famous names and conclude they must be good books, no, CLASSIC books.

>pore over minutiae and world-building and magic systems and future tech and space colony politics and so on.
in other words, things that make fantasy and science fiction fantasy and science fiction. A "transcendent message" is secondary, and really does get put across in a lot of genre in a more honest way than awards-circuit lit does.

>>13402997
What does /lit/ think of HPMOR?

>>13403754
Quite possibly as far as fantasy goes. A lot of it that was written from George MacDonald forward is pretty short, the longass trilogies+ fad is pretty recent.
And while I like SF there's plenty of older authors in it i'm not big on so I lose out a bit due to that, Cordwainer Smith for instance.
I'm just glad that I found Xianxia when I did, almost stopped reading fantasy and SF permanently because of how shit all the new stuff was.

>>13403774
Hubbard is objectively a better writer and cult leader than Yud.

>>13403774
>pretentious, rent-seeking, degenerate, polyamorous jew writes YA fanfiction to show how big-brained he is while making basic bitch atheist talking points against strawman characters
one of the best pieces of writing ever conceived

jesus christ dinoposter did nothing wrong

The Passage Cronin, Justin
Early on, one PoV character is a pedophile. His experiences with this are referenced, but never flashed back to. Later on, the protagonists are in a situation where forced mandatory pregnancies are a way of life. One viewpoint character is almost raped by a child. This is depicted on screen. This covers the first book in the series, I am unsure of the others.

>>13403817
>depicted on screen

>>13403784
You don't read much. Self published is the future. Publishing House authors have to toe a line, that messes with their creativity. Self published authors don't have this problem.

>>13402997
Can anyone recommend a book about intergalactic travel, something epic with lots of discovery? Thaaanks

>>13403851
>You don't read much.
More than most here. I used to write early recommendation lists on here when /lit/ was still mostly Ayn Rand spam and the philosophy autists and marxists hadn't moved in yet.
>Self published is the future.
Probably, but it's much harder to find out about those names, I barely know any of them.
Whereas the publishing house ones are 100% trash now once you ignore re-prints.

>>13403874
>Probably, but it's much harder to find out about those names, I barely know any of them.

>>13403897
Cool thanks, i'll check out some of them and see if there's some non-trash to be found in western fantasy now.
I recognize Will Wight for House of Blades, probably the only modern fantasy book I rather liked despite it's flaws because of how interesting the house mystery was, shame the sequels weren't nearly as interesting.

>>13403874
>I used to write early recommendation lists on here when /lit/ was still mostly Ayn Rand spam and the philosophy autists and marxists hadn't moved in yet.
Same. Did you used to lurk in the threads when a new Dresden Files was published? I know they are crappy, but they were fun.

>Probably, but it's much harder to find out about those names, I barely know any of them.
Look for books that people shill here. I could give you some, but you will call them shit. Self published books are like cookies. I'm getting fat and probably developing diabetus, but I'm living and enjoying live. I just can't take the box ticking publishing house authors do in each book.
>mention children in danger
>budding romance
>some drama shit that could be solved by MC just walking away but is stretched into a third of the book
>MC does some stupid shit that escalates some problem
>navel gazing philosophy about doing the right thing
>sacrificing yourself for someone you just met and know nothing about
>leaves bad guy alive so there can be a sequel where they bring more people
>morality up the ass, guy killed hundreds, tried to kill you, swear when you see them again you will kill them, chance comes by and you trying to pass the MC off as the better person for leaving a psychopath at their back
Self published follow these parts, but some kill the guy that needs killing. Always hated superman boy scout logic in books.

>>13403874
>>13403947
After reading A LOT of books I see that ignoring harem shit was hurtful. A lot of harem authors have great worlds, characters, and stories... if you ignore the smut. You should give it a try.

As much as Sanderson is a bit of a hack at least he pumps out a lot of content and is quite transparent with his fans as to the state of his current project - that percentage counter on his website gives people who like his books an observable measure of progress.

Why do so many authors hold their readers in contempt now?

>>13404043
>Why do so many authors hold their readers in contempt now?
It's part of being in with the liberal crowd. No joke.

>>13403704
A guy named Matthew Hughes wrote some books in a "pre-Dying Earth" setting explicitly based on Vance (Majestrum). Never read them but I've heard they're decent.

There was an homage anthology called Songs of the Dying Earth in which a bunch of authors wrote their own stories in Vance's settings. It's pretty good.

But overall I think Wolfe killed the subgenre.

>>13404039
How about they don’t ruin their books with smut or harem shit

>>13404089
>ruin

I've honestly seen more books ruined by romantic romance (inlcuding haremshit, when "harem" means, as it usually does, that the hero is a virgin who cannot choose one girl to romatically romance) than by outright smut.

>>13404050
Yeah I'd hate them too. Imagine everything you write always not being progressive enough.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hQi6C2RQvjGzjSoXU0D063fCFcz1wCHXFUe7PfEsGrk/

>>13404043
>Why do so many authors hold their readers in contempt now?
Those authors are leftshits.

>>13404054
>>13403704
God damn you guys really suck wolfes dick hu? it's just that it's not a super popular subgenre is all, no one "killed" it. Wolfe isn't even very popular, he has more critical success than actual success.

it's not exactly the same but a lot of 40k lore is sort of similar so if you could find a book set on a feudal or knight world in the 40k universe you would be set. 40k has maganed to produced a number of good books (eisenhorn, ravener, ghaunts ghosts etc)

Whichever anon mentioned last week that Anvil of Stars is significantly different from the Forge of God. Dam were you right. The Forge of God was a great read but I'm considering dropping Anvil of Stars about 75 pages in. Might give Blood Music is a chance soon though.

>>13402997
One of the better modern S&S books I've read. It's not traditional S&S like Conan, Kane or Fafhrd and Grey Mouser and closer to Gemmell's take on the genre, nevertheless it's quite excellent.

Goes to utter shit after the first book though, best to pretend it's a standalone.

>>13404232
if that's s&s then fucking almost all fantasy is and there's no point holding it up as a distinct genre

>>13402997
>S&S
Why was Salt and Sanctuary so good, bros?

>>13403874
Bayne's Climb was a fun little adventure and it is the first of a (short) trilogy if you like it enough to continue.
Cradle is enjoyable and lots of theories to speculate upon.
The Ascension trilogy is fairly short and written well for what it is--minuscule and nonintrusive romance as well.

>>13403129
>>13403606
>>13403958
>>13404116
Let it go anon, just stop. Why even try?

>>13404232
The original Riyria books are modern S&S.
Not the age of shit series, in which he shit the entire house and not only the bed.

>>13404232
I've read this and it is not S&S.

>>13404350
>In short, Sullivan is beginning to expand his series from intimate character sword & sorcery to larger scale stories, and I found Sullivan’s mix of traditional ingredients of epic fantasy with compelling storytelling to be very appealing.
Hmmm sounds like it starts off fairly S&S, but then gradually becomes typical epic fantasy.

>>13401674
I've only read Player of Games and this is going to sound like a bunch of random profanity but the MC is a literal nigger cuck who by the end of the book learns a valuable lesson about being accepting of an open relationship with the tranny who was fucking everyone but him because he came off as too possessive in his first advances and finally gets to fuck xer in the middle of xem transitioning.

That wasn't even what made me hate it, I thought it was hilarious, but the writer sucking off his militant authoritarian nightmare was a bit much.

>>13402997
What are good series about vampire clans in a medieval setting?

>>13404370
>The fourth book, The Emerald Storm, takes its title from the ship on which Royce and Hadrian find themselves for much of the novel. Sullivan splits the screen time between the adventure at sea with the continuing development of the bond between Modina and her assistant Amilia, Modina’s emergence from her shell, and Amilia’s growing respectability in the court.
Oh boy that sure sounds awful and nothing even remotely close to S&S.

>>13404283
whats that image from? looks interesting.

>MC makes his elf foster mom jealous when he spends all his time fucking his sister instead of her

Was not expecting that out of a book published in 54

>>13404448
Difference is Anderson wasn't writing that to be super edgy but for it to be tragic since the story is ultimately a tragedy.

>>13404448
Elves are weird in that. Despite Elf mom reminding him of all the milkies he got and eventually lusting for him, she doesn't give a fuck when he kicks it,

>>13404350
I already got tricked into Age of XX Chromosomes, I won't give that faggot a penny.

>>13404577
>“Not know love?” murmured Leea, too softly for him to hear. “You are wise, Imric, but your wisdom has its bounds.”
She, in fact, gave lots of fucks when he died. But it was an elf-love.

Bought Gibson's Neuromancer today. I'm aware it is part of a trilogy but can I read it on its own or does it continue on in the other two books?

>>13404720
You can read it on it's own, it's a completely self-contained story.

>>13404448
>came out before Fellowship of the Rings
No idea how that book even exists.

>>13404448
SWIFTLY GOES THE SWORDPLAY

>>13404865
>No idea how that book even exists.
Why?

>>13404905
Because Broken Sword is at the same time more modern and more ancient than just about any book I've ever read and it was written when my dad was a kid.

Does anybody have Dan Abnett's new wh40k books - Anarch and some other (2018 and 2019) in epub form?

sffg-pill me on this one guys.
The blurb says something about sect. Is this one of those "cripple your mom or I will pull your hair out by their roots" books?

>>13404385
Not quoted but I read Consider Phlebas and decided to not read anything more by Banks afterwards. What a complete waste of time that was.

>>13405190
The disappointment anons feel for Consider Phlebas is primarily based on how pointless the main conflict was, how this desperate shapeshifter fought tooth and nail for his mission, his people, and his furry waifu except it was all worthless, everyone died, but at least the AI they rescued got to run a ski lift or something. The cannibalistic poop-eating cult is what normally gets blamed, but that was just insult sprinkled on top.

It really was awe-inspiring to read the epilogue where it talks about how many people and planets died in this minor border scuffle, made you feel insignificant, but that didn't make the experience any less unpleasant.

>>13405150
no thats a smut book

>>13404321
I like to deny beanboys like this too.

>>13403237
>>13403229
>"The Sequel to God's Demon"
what the fuck i didn't know he wrote a sequel,i read God's Demon years ago and it was pretty good.
>>13403725
Yes
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Dark_Sun_novels
The Troy Denning series have the guy from your pic as the mc for one of his books.
The Rise and Fall of A Dragon King by Lynn Abbey was okay.but mostly is just shlocky fantasy about killing hordes of trolls and angry manlets.

>>13404604
You were told to avoid the AGE of from day one. You wanted to be a contrary faggot and read it anyway, now you're blaming others.
Fuck off.

>>13404401
Sanderson's Mistborn. They have snippets like this.

>>13403817
>One viewpoint character is almost raped by a child
Is the viewpoint character a woman? i might be in the mood for some straight shota fantasy

hey guys, looking fore recomendations here, i finished reading both the three body problem and dune messiah and im not sure where to move forwards.

should i tackle the dark forest or move on to children of dune? i think the latter is better written than the former but the former seems to be more accesible so im not sure.

>>13405150
I actually read it. Because i thought it exactly what you thought it was.
Its very bad. Badly written, horrible grammar and spelling mistakes everywhere. Its also short and all over the place.

>>13405222
I don't mind MCs being effectively one tier above common grunts, and contributing whatever little they can to a vast conflict that dwarfs their little personal concerns to an unimaginable degree.

If that conflict is fought between two factions of fucktard dickbags who both want to expand their dominion for purely ideological reasons (and take note that in the light of additions to the setting made in subsequent novels, both of their ideologies are just differently-flavored brands of space Luddism, who intend to artificially stop development of intelligence at the level the ruling caste is comfortalbe with) I may start question why I'm reading this book. The author will need some effort to make the plot and characters compelling on their own.

If he instead spends this effort on attempts to gross me out or misadventures of some random space scum, I'll read something else.

>>13405303
Banks' philosophy was extremely pessimistic about life having any kind of meaning or purpose - I think a character in Phlebas even says that, "what's wrong with being mindless oversexed hedonists, there's not really anything better out there." So everything's going to come down to particles clashing as entropy winds down the universe, and anything beautiful is going to be destroyed.

Extremely unpleasant mind to spend time in.

>>13405263
>You were told to avoid the AGE of from day one
Two people told me to get it and no one told me not to. The fault is entirely on everyone but myself.
Anyway, I wasn't blaming anyone at first, just said that I wasn't going to pay for any by Sullivan again because he's a raging faggot.

>>13404391
pls respond

>>13405324
>The fault is entirely on everyone but myself.
Spoken like a true americlap.

>just said that I wasn't going to pay for any by Sullivan again because he's a raging faggot.
Then don't pay, steal his book. He had to write the faggot shit to placate the sjw that pay for his patreon.

>>13405650
>he has a patron
This fag just gets worse and worse. Hope a Kenyan stowaway falls out of a plane and lands on top of him.

>walking through bookstore looking for something interesting
>find a book with a decent cover
>read description on back
>read first chapter
>seems really interesting
>look at authors name
>it's a woman
>immediately put it back on the shelf and keep browsing
This shit happens to me multiple times when I go to the bookstore recently. Why the fuck are women writing more fantasy and sci-fi? It's annoying and they are garbage at writing anything more than short stories.

>>13403013
link to OP?

>>13405712
>read something
>is good
>find the author is female
>now it's bad

>>13405732
>link to OP?
fuck off, it's the second fucking post.
Also, I forgot. I'm just a sub filling in for monthly anon.

/sffg/, why has the lovecraft mythos not been supplanted yet?

politics aside, lovecraft's vision of a mythology that was unconcerned with us was revolutionary, but his own neuroses led him to fear and demonize not just other cultures, but the very act of learning anything his people didn't already know. Why has no mythos appeared that both accepts that our view is narrow and self-centered, and urges us to expand it?

>>13405877
Don't you worry. Jemisin herself is on a one women quest to subvert and destroy Lovecraft's mythos. Get ready for it to be the most acclaimed book of whatever year it comes out in.

How's Gridlinked by Asher?

>>13405877
>politics aside
>but his own neuroses led him to fear and demonize other cultures
One day I will figure out how to hurl this planet into the sun.

>>13405877
Bait post but still
>his own neuroses
lol that's what libshits like to pretend to soften his views anyway.
He lived in very trendy circles through the Kalem Club and knew the homos for what they were, he even opined that their idolized photographer artists were little more than pedos cruising the slums for swarthy boys to sodomize.

>>13405877
Because people like you have sterile imaginations and cannot create, only destroy.

>>13403725
Yeah, there's a few, but the only ones worth a shit were written by Lynn Abbey. It's nothing special, I just liked Pavek as a protagonist and one of the novels in the Chronicles of Athas series, the Dragon King one, is mostly from the perspective of Hamanu, Sorcerer-King of Urik.

>Winning’s no good, if the grain won’t grow.

What's a good fantasy book featuring dragons?

>>13405971
The Voyage of the Dawn Treader.

>read fantasy series
>theme of monarchy bad (an American author episode)
>get to last book in the series
>woman becomes monarch
>monarchy good now

>start Shards of Honor since Curse of Chalion was so good
>near-instant action, stakes set, very professional
>Cordelia can't take three steps without thirsting for Vorkosigan's fit manly bod
It's so good

>>13405915
He hated everything that wasn't a WASP. He even hated seafood.

>>13405901
Read Prador Moon then Shadow of the Scorpion

>>13405877
>Why has no mythos appeared that both accepts that our view is narrow and self-centered, and urges us to expand it?
It's called Christianity
For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

>>13406123
A patrician view certified by what non-WASPs have done to the US since.

hey /sffg/, which book has the most overpowered MC that you've read?

>>13405271
The dark forest books get better and better while the d00n books just get worse and worse desu. Though I've heard that Chinese people tend to like Three Body Problem over The Dark Forest, while it's the opposite for westerners, I'd really like to know why that is.

>>13406171
The Last Question

>>13406171
Blue mage raised by Dragons.

>>13406025
Which series?

Would people in this thread be interested in reading my first book? ^_^

It's a light read focused primarily on one character--an apprentice spellblade who, during a mission, gets lost in an enchanted forest and has to learn to survive on his own. I made it first and foremost for myself, but thought people who like high fantasy may enjoy it, so I read several books on editing, polished it up over multiple passes, sent it out to beta readers who liked it, changed some sections where they gave me feedback to improve it, and then decided to publish.

The setting is traditional fantasy (Faeries, magical swords, trolls, etc.), but I mixed in some of my own ideas and elements of Jungian psychology and other scientific concepts, along with elements of animu (a trap and an evil tentacle waifu). I'm already working on the second book, and it's longer than the first due to the incorporation of more POV characters.

You can find it under the name "Runeblade: A Chronicle of the Mundane and the Magical" on Amazon if you're intrigued. Check it out!

>>13406171
I Shall Seal The Heavens.
OP in a good way though.

>>13402997
any comfy fantasy that's like for example lost, less about the plot and more about the focus on characterisation and setting on lost island ect.

What is the /lit/ opinion on THE WHEEL OF TIME, Mistborn, The Stormlight Archive, Lightbringer, The Gentlemen’s Bastards.

/sffg/, I've been thinking about how to introduce a pokemon-like aspect to my setting without it feeling cringey, and I'm thinking the best thing to do is to keep all the domestic ones just a part of the scenery until I'm ready to address them

For example, the first scene I had in mind was the MC being brought to a wizard compound after being attacked and it's just mentioned some kind of weird cat bolts when they dump him on the couch. After the night ends he passes out in one of the spare rooms and when he wakes up there's a robotic bird in a cage or some shit. He might encounter a wild one a scene or two later, but it's another four or five before it even becomes apparent one of them is a character's familiar

After that, they're slowly established to be more like hunting dogs than fighting dogs, with their own intrinsic magic making it a little easier to cast spells

>>13405903
>>13405915
>>13405933

can you fucktards stop acting like mongoloids every time someone doesn't regurgitate a mindless contrarian opinion? there's literally nothing wrong with that question

>>13406452
>WoT
Bloated shit, about 6-8 books longer than it needed to be.

>Mistborn
YA anime shit

>Stormlight
WoK is ok, the rest is shit. Fuck Shallan.

>Lightbringer
Brent Weeks tier of shit

>Gentlemen Bastard
Book 1 is good, book 2 is sub par but tolerable due to the pirate parts, book 3 is complete SHIT.

>>13406460
Didn't you just post about your pokemon harem shit?
Read Codex Alera to see how it's done.

>>13406579
first off, that was a different thread, second it's not harem shit, and third codex alera drops the premise half way through the first book

>>13406049
>first half is comfy survival romance
>sudden gear shift to imprisonment by a gross rapacious aristocrat who calls her "my pet"
lois I did not order this

>>13406171
Sword of Truth. My nigga makes a whole new universe and exiles all the commies to it. It's our universe

>>13406570
*SNAP* Ah thanks for the shitpost. A reminder that 4chan will never be taken seriously and you all are insufferable anonymous losers. Exactly what I was looking for. This one’s going in my cringe compilation

>>13406653
>Onomatopoeia
>cringe
This one go in grug cringe-posting cringe compilation

>>13406171
Possibly this

>>13406605
Bothari is the most tragic character ever written.

Funnily enough that aristocrat never rapes Cordelia, Aral though...

>>13405759
THREADSLAAAAAAAAVE!... YOOOOOU'RE FIIIIRED!!

>>13406720
It's impossible for Aral to rape Cordelia. He's pretty much identical to Cazaril, by the way.

>>13406841
No shit. Aral is the one that gets raped you dummy.

Any very psychedelic fantasy or scifi?

I just finished A Scanner Darkly and loved it.

>>13406914
Creatures of Light and Darkness.

>>13406914
Kefahuchi Tract novels, which are like an anglo Roadside Picnic. Solaris. Dhalgren.

>>13406926
>>13406930

Solaris is on my watch list so I should definitely read that first. Also I loved Stalker which it appears Roadside Picnic is based on. Thanks anons

>>13406874
>she gets a stutter and kicks the president in the nuts
This is going to be a fun series.

>>13406974
If you liked Stalker try the novel of Metro 2033. It's not "trippy" but it's thick with brooding slavic mysticism. Really repulsive and engrossing.

>>13406930
>Dhalgren is psychedelic
>getting buggered is really trippy

>>13406171
The Ellimist

Should I read prince of nothing series?

>>13407268
Yes

>>13403752
Disappointing to hear that Blindsight is an anomoly of modern hard sci fi. I just came to lit for the first time to ask for recommendations along the same vein as Blindsight or Echopraxia. I like the somewhat nihilistic and cold worlds in these books, and the deeper questions about consciousness and being that they evoke.

I recently read "freeze frame revolution" by Watts, and while it was interesting, it also left me wanting in several ways. Plus, the redditor in Watts REALLY shines through, as he literally starts using pronouns like "xe" and "xer" halfway through the book with no explanation at all, like we're just supposed to take for granted that obviously mentally ill trannys exist on a futuristic ai commandeered space rock summoning wormholes throughout the galaxy.

>>13407295
Why

>>13407268
No

>>13407351
Why

>>13407344
Its the best grimdark on the market. Bleak with great villains.

>>13405971
Dragon Wing

Just finished outlining my fantasy-war movie /lit/.

Yay me.

What level of schizophrenia do I need to be on to read this?

>>13407439
about three fifty

>>13406290
>Faeries, magical swords, trolls, etc.
yikes

I'm 3/4ths done with the first horus hersey book and realized I am so fucking confused about the actual primarch horus and little horus. I don't feel like re reading so I have no idea if the actual primarch has been in this story or if it's all little horus. Dude keeps switching between multiple names for him and because he referred to him as the warmaster chosen by the emperor I thought it was primarch but it was actually little horus. fuck

>>13407389
>Death Gate
I remember playing a game based on that.

>>13407887
Don't they call him Aximand a fair amount of times?

Please recommend something FUN

>>13406653
Cringe

>>13407958
Vlad Taltos

>>13406914
A Voyage to Arcturus

>>13407952
Yea and now I'm even more fucking confused because primarch sanguinius just landed on the spider world and now apparently the horus is the actual primarch horus which I thought was little horus and they referred to him as warmaster. FUCK

>>13407958
Fire Punch

>>13407958
Images of the Goddess by Schuyler Hernstrom. Adventurous in the Vancian sense and humorous in the classical sense and not the awful modern sarcastic snarky sense.

>>13407357
It's gay.

I ordered Book of the New Sun part 1 on Amazon on Saturday, but apparently they were too retarded to deliver it on time. is this a sign that I shouldn't read it?

>>13408324
Yea

>>13407380
Not that guy, but I read up to the part where the wizard guy talks to the prophet and dropped it because it was just really boring. Does it get more interesting?

>>13408477
No. It's actually very boring throughout the entire series. But that's epic fantasy for you; even the grimderp variety.

>>13407958
J Fforde: Shades of Grey

>>13407332
Deeper questions about vampires in space

What are some good /sffg/ novels similar to Ideon?

>>13408809
Combat Frame Xseed.

Well today is burger day. Happy burger day to all Klapistani who use this general. You can all applaud while your country falls around your ears.

what is everyone else reading? Did anyone take Will Wight up on his offer to download all hos books for free?

>>13407434
Good job anon

>>13409096
>dat yurokebabistani projection

>>13406171
In terms of books which still have measurable power levels to the end, instead of falling back on some nebulously defined reality warping with unclear limits or lack thereof, Superluminary.

>>13408477
Yes. Book two is the best book in the series. One is a bit of a slow burn that only has a few peaks.

>>13409113
>there is only Americlap and yourope in the world
>no other continent or country exists
Figures that Americans don't know geography. They've been dumbed down so much that outsiders know more about American history than Americans themselves.

Since we won't have Americans shitting up the general today guys, let's have a civil discussion which never happens because the Americans wake up.

>>13409430
>americans are stupid
>we won't see americans on the internet on the day none of them have to work because it's a national holiday

>>13407958
Cultivation Chat Group.

>>13409470
It's like he believes 4chan users have active normal social lives lmao

>>13409430
So can we all agree that Sanderfag being a hack is the cultured European stance?

>>13409470
Don't you all go outside and grill vegetables, fruits and meat and put them in bread?

>>13409783
I'm flattered you think we're all so gregarious.

Please don't let the perpetually butthurt yuroshits, commies, and muslims ruin the thread because it's based America's birthday.

Give me some smut I don't care, specially if it has ANAL

>>13409792
Because it's s bean plant America's birthday?

>>13409830

>>13409830
Self published books are your answer.

>>13407163
Besides The Ellimist(TM), what are some other xianxia-like I can read while I wait for Uncrowned?

>>13410112
>>13407163
>The Ellimist Chronicles is a children's science-fiction novel, a companion book to the Animorphs series written by K. A. Applegate. It tells the backstory of the Ellimist, a god-like being from the story
>is a children's science-fiction novel
You nearly got me, nearly. Luckily I checked it before downloading. You made it sound as though it was on par with cradle.

Forgive the weeb-ism, but are there any Fantasy books with a similar feel to Fullmetal Alchemist? (Magic users as pseudo-scholarly types, light horror elements, militarism, Victorian/Edwardian setting?)

>>13410304
The Powder Mage, lacking the light horror but it has everything else

>>13410142

animorphs is extremely underrated, gave a lot children born in the 90's ptsd. its a kid's book in the same way that evangelion is for children

>>13410315
>lacking the light horror
Did you forget the voodoo dolls and the anti-powder monsters?

>>13405754
That's correct

>>13410316
i believe animorphs had a hand in starting the furry epidemic in the 90s.

>>13410500
Animorphs and Redwall, but they would have latched onto anything to be quite honest

>tfw Aral Vorkosigan lets his Betan wife convince him to poz Barrayar
I didn't ask for this either

This any good?
Looking for comfy fantasy adventures that aren't grimderp.

>>13409430
Someone's still salty the queen got btfo
>>13409320
>Bisexual autist assembles cannibal rape army to oppose cannibal rape space aliums and their army of dog dick rape elves and well hung balrogs
>Armies cannibalize and rape each other over thousands of pages then rape and cannibalize themselves
>Cornholes Proyas while he cries cuz philosophy
>Everyones penis curves upward for some reason
>Story won't conclude because Bakker can't find a publisher
>Elves literally have dog benises
What did he mean by this? Also, I'm still salty Based Sorwheel got Kelmomased

>>13409096
How are his sea and shadow books? I've read both cradle and travelers gate but never really looked into that third series.

>>13407268
Hmm, good question.
Maybe just read a non-fiction book about the fourth crusade instead?

>>13410664
>Dude sets out to btfo the world and the afterlife because his autism trance told him to and crushes cute boipucci in sweaty smelly noncon action along the way
It may be the most /sffg/ series out there

>>13410526
>>13410500
It was lion King and Nala giving Simba those bedroom eyes

How is Circe by Miller? Is it a fun entertaining read or do I knew pre-knowledge?

>I am the Bane of Cowdenbeath, the Scourge of Auchtermuchty, Arch-Foe of the Questlords of Inverness. Come face me in battle, Angus!
Any good over the top fantasy comedies?

>>13410641
I think he just uses curbs upward as a euphemism for an erection.
But also
>fighting hedonistic sadomasochist space aliens
>complaining about them being vulgar

And if you aren’t a brainlet, you already know the ending, where Akka his daughterwife and probably crab boy sneak back into the ruins of golgotterath to recover the other head on Kellhus’s belt, where his soul is backed up, and use it to kill the no god.

>>13410694
Would you a qt3.14 skinspy? Would you let them hug your face

>>13410716
Lola the bunny, that hairy harlot stole my heart.

Fay or Alice?

any published sci-fi recommendations if I like Madoka Magica: To The Stars?

>>13410809
Surprisingly good. It's not really a "fun" kind book though, the material is a little heavy for that. Definitely gripping and entertaining though.

>>13410945
>>13410945
>>13410945

>want to get into Ellison
>look up I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream collection
>newest and most available printing has a shitty cover that's just a photo of Ellison
>only good cover is expensive and a bitch to find

Fuck the cover-autist in me, no way am I settling for the other shit

>>13410920
iirc there are several passages where weiners are pointing up and touching someone's bellybutton. And Bakker has said that Kellhus is dead ie in the outside
>>13410936
L-lewd. If they turn female do they still have a benis or can they grow an bagina at will?

>>13411103
They still have the benis. That’s half the appeal. Don’t you remember the empress?

>>13411164
No but it rings a faint bell. It's been years tho cuz I read them as they're released

>>13411041

Why is it we haven't had a solid Ellison collection of his works re-released lately especially after his death, something going on with his estate and publishers?

>>13409830
>Give me some smut I don't care, specially if it has ANAL
I don't have any books but I wonder, is there a tasteful way to write smut ?
I'd most likely go overboard when writing something like this so at what point when detailing an act such as that would it be too much since it's already rather graphic in it's own nature
>prude
yes, I know.

Finished androids... electric memes
Why didn't Deckard just shoot Rachel? Her confession was enough to implicate her and the entire Rosen corporation of orchestrating the replicant escapes so they can get data for further upgrades. They have competition, they're not a monolith and definitively don't have full control the us/ussr police and legal systems. Other corporations would love to grab their market share and some experts that might lose their jobs. Ok, i took some huge leaps in logic, but his reaction to her blurting that out really surprised me.
>>13410969
Dunno about the fanfic, but i'd suggest Childhood's end to every Eva/Madoka fan

>>13411103
He carved out his own little sliver of the outside for his soul when he cut off his own head and replaced it with the devil’s

>>13409830
>Blocks you path

>>13410304
Bartimaeus Trilogy is the closest I can think of.

>>13411323
>when the second inutterable kicks in

May I post a link to a thread of mine on here ?

It's about the fact that a translation of "Mountains Oceans Giants" (1924) finally emerged for free on the internet due to the lack of interest from publishers.

The book is by A. Döblin, a rather important figure of German modernism (with his novel Berlin Alexanderplatz).

>Mountains Oceans Giants takes us to the 27th century, where bewildered idle masses subsist on synthetic food, and ruthless elites decide to melt the ice of Greenland and open a new continent to colonisation. Technology runs amok, with disastrous consequences.

Here is an introduction to this epic
https://beyond-alexanderplatz.com/mountains-oceans-giants-introduction/
>The 27th century: beleaguered elites decide to melt the Greenland icecap. Why? – to open up a new continent, for colonisation by the unruly masses. How? – by harvesting the primordial heat of the Earth from Iceland’s volcanoes.
>Nature fights back, and it all goes horribly wrong…
>While Döblin’s world-building can be faulted in some respects – communication technologies remain at a 1920s level; ‘fliers’ and underground trains coexist with horses and carts – the encompassing Theme of Humanity, Technology, and Nature focuses on enduring features of humanity’s Promethean adventure. The technologies depicted in some detail share one significant characteristic: all draw on and affect Nature in an elemental way. Fire, Earth, Water, Air and Light are constantly perverted to destructive and inhuman end

>>13411338

>>13410839
The wife recommends Villains by Necessity. The world has become too good so to save it from destruction the protagonists have to do evil shit or something. She described a few parts and it seems pretty funny so I may read it as well

I finished reading Ilium, and is the first half or so of the book unusually heavy on the fanservice?
Holy shit there is a focus on big tits and shit like that, but then the second half of the book has all eroticism drop off a cliff. I also think Simmons went even harder on pushing his voice into his stories too, jesus christ. I still liked it though. Does Olympus end the duology well? I was burnt by Endymion and it's sequel.

>>13411411
based Bartimaeus

>>13407958
Tewwy Pwatchett

>>13409969
can you point me in the direction of any specific?

>>13411456
stop shilling your stupid fucking book

>>13409932
Wtf is GRI?

How much incest is too much?

>>13411785
Lurk more
>>13411788
Too much?

>>13411669
There is a self publish chart that is filled with smut shit. Read the thread.

>>13411788
Selfincest with clone in infinite dimensions should be your starting point

Just started to read Eye of the World and goddamn... this random made up "fantasy" words and names for everything.... It's like very amateurish fantasy stuff. Even parody like I would say. Very bad. Should I push through?

>>13411675
>1924
>his book
Sure is a lot of stupid going on here, you're right about that.

https://pastebin.com/ArFtzXDp

Could I get some feedback? I haven't really written scifi before. I dunno where it's going, but it's pretty fun to write.

Thank u anons

>>13411805
No. So being a faggot and tell me.

Yrkoon did nothing wrong.

>>13411987
t-that pic can't be official disney

>>13411885
I was very specific. I'm going through all those books until I find some anal.

>>13412003
>1924
>finally translated into english
>someone translated it and is looking to cash in those kopeks

>>13412057
>I was very specific
No you weren't. You said anything, but then said it would make you diamonds if it was anal.
Not going to find that, unless you read gay shit. Where the dudes talk about poop chute diving.

Just go to sadpanda and use "language:english male:tomgirl" Should satisfy you. Or got to >>>/gif/ and look for tranny or anal threads.

>>13404155
the Wolfejerking that goes on here gets so fucking old tbqh

Why did they cut him from the show?

>>13412013
>“Fuck-a-reeper, here comes your peperoni peeper!” he shouted in a holler, to himself, in his car.
I keked

When do I stop reading Dune, friends?

First is good. It's not great literature or anything but very readable, flows nicely, memorable moments. I hear you can stop after the 1st, after the 3rd, or after the 4th and be satisfied.

>>13412483
That was what I was going for, so I guess that’s a good sign.

/sffg/, why is it that, with the exception of lesbians, lgbt main characters in scifi/fantasy always feel so forced and unnatural?

It doesn't happen in other genres or other mediums, but with sff lit I have an extremely difficult time with immersion. Ironically, the only character I've read who I could actually believe was gay was Ender Wiggin

>>13412552
Because 99% of the time it IS forced and the writer has no idea how to write those characters as not feeling forced. The rare exception is Quest for Lost Heroes by David Gemmell. There's a gay male couple in the group of protags, but Gemmell writes them so subtly you might actually miss they were gay. They don't do anything outwardly gay and they're not written with stereotypical gay mannerisms and the fact they're gay doesn't play a role in the story or their characterization that much.

Been reading Heinlein's Future History short stories,they are comfy but some of them are so boring.

>>13412562
Also fags in fantasy settings in particular tend to stand out even more because the vast majority of the time the setting is Medieval fantasy and fags weren't running around letting everyone know they were fags in Medieval times.

>>13412552
didn't Ender and Novinha separate in one of the later books ? it's been a while since I read them, and iirc, that would be an indication of him having never come to terms with his sexuality
>>13412562
>>13412570
these pretty much, minus the slurs

>>13412530
I'd say read the second. The third is mainly worth reading through to get to the fourth but the fourth is worth it. I've never finished Heretics or Chapterhouse so I can't give you an informed opinion about those.

I want to read a fantasy where a cunning anti hero warrior chad schemes and fights his way to the top and btfos soft nobles and fag wizards.

>>13412589
Conan is literally this.

>>13412552
It was done okay in that series about the assassin and the faggot clown. But there are a lot of people out there trying to win good boy points, or else indulging in their own narrowband vengeance fantasy

>>13412606
*Conan is literally shit.
FTFY

>>13412562
honestly, I don't drink the kool-aid here but I'm not going to disagree entirely. Most of these characters ARE political statements, but because it's fantasy It usually feels like they're trying to make a political statement that doesn't really have anything to do with the story. With lesbians at least, it feels believable because it doesn't feel like a statement, it's just the mindless sex appeal that we're already prepared to accept at face value.

I guess ender likewise counted specifically because I knew it wasn't Card trying to go off topic to discuss an unrelated issue.

>>13412576
she separated from him because he approved of her son going on a mission that ended in him being murdered, not because he was gay

honestly, when I was talking about Ender's gayness, I was talking more about the first book with that black kid whose name I can't remember. That felt like a completely natural childhood romance. His lack of attraction to other women besides his sister prior to the end of the second book really only reinforced that.

Ender though is a weird case. Like, it's painfully obvious from reading the first book and knowing his stance on gay rights that Card is a closeted and self-hating pedarest. It was his own passions and identity that were driving ender's behaviour, rather than a desire to make a statement, so despite the fact that he'd never admit it, it came out extremely genuine.

How did storm light archive shit the bed in such record time? I was pretty excited after the first book. I dropped it about 60% of the way through the 3rd book and have no desire to come back. I don't know how it's possible to completely kill such a promising series.

>>13412622
That's constructive. Did you read the post anon was commenting on, or did you just post on pure reflex?

>>13412625
>it's painfully obvious from reading the first book and knowing his stance on gay rights that Card is a closeted and self-hating pedarest
I remember getting those vibes in the first book, but I never thought about what it might say about Card
there's also the fact that Ender is also quite liberal and anti-xenophobic, so I might wonder if Card only acts as conservative as he does because his religion tells him to
>>13412642
it shat the bed during the first book, actually, you just noticed it late

>>13412643
It's okay, anon. Conan has been triggering the incel queers for decades. I enjoy their sissy tears whenever Based Conan is mentioned.

>>13412664
>>13412664
>>13412664

>>13412653
It's hard to say. Card's writing is likewise pretty anti-religious. If I had to speculate about his life I'd assume he's feeling trapped in the mormon community and can't really part from it without losing most of the people in his life.

That said, I'm not a psychologist, and I know very little about the man besides heresay and what comes through in his books

>>13412664
>incel is now the go to insult for people looking to say virgin
>not having sex makes you a worse person than rent free std vehicles

>>13412535
I was entertained

>>13412625
Speaking of closet homos...

Read Count to Infinity and just finished this up, rest of the trilogy's already ordered. What other of John C. Wright's books should I read? And yeah I'm already reading Awake in the Night Land. Guy's just fucking brilliant

>>13412949
Throne of bones

>>13412884
YIKES

>>13412949
Superluminary for over the top yet "hard sci-fi" space opera.

>>13412949
Wright's major works are Golden Age, Awake in the Night Land, and Count to Infinity. I hate to say it but those are the primo material and everything else he's written is not really up to that quality as far as I've read.

The Iron Chamber of Memory is a little indulgent but has a great concept, reasonable execution, and does one particular thing very, very well. It was the first novel Wright put out after his editor died and then he fell out with Tor.

I've never read Everness or Orphans of Chaos. I haven't heard good things about either but who knows. Haven't gotten around to Somewhither.

The Moth and Cobweb books are far better than they have any right to be as Urban Fantasy YA but the series is unfinished.

Superluminary is like a B-side of Count to Infinity and I didn't like it to the point that I haven't bothered following his "Lost Continent" serial, which appears to be the main thing he's working on right now. Try Tales from Metachronopolis first -- it's Wright as his most pulpy, riffing on Keith Laumer's Dinosaur Beach -- and if you don't like it don't even touch his serials.

>>13412552
The lesbians are usually written by women who are either lesbians themselves or at least feel some attraction.

Most male SF authors can barely manage to accurately portray standard-issue heterosexuality.

>>13412991
>>13412985
>>13412979

all right well I thought to Count to Infinity and Golden Age were masterpieces so I guess I'll go for Superluminary, sounds like it'll be the pulpy Rebuild to CoI's End of Evangelion. Also Iron Chamber of Memory.

>>13412552
Japanese sci-fi deals a lot with lesbian characters and I never felt like it was forced. There's not really any social pressure for them to put LGBT characters in media so they end up dealing with these things quite naturally.

>>13413011
>Also Iron Chamber of Memory.
If you really liked the Eschaton books despite their flaws you'll probably think Iron Chamber is great.

Awake in the Night Land is S-tier. I would honestly save it for after Superluminary as a palate cleanser in case Superluminary rubs you the wrong way.

>>13412895
Good. So I should continue with it?

>>13413026
I read the first story and thought it was fantastic, saving the rest for afterwards.

Thanks, I will read it after The Golden Ouecemen/Superluminary/Iron Chamber. He has such a great sense of scale, apparently the last story takes place at the end of time and it basically sounds like Night Land's equivalent of Count to Infinity. Fuckin' stoked.

>>13406290
How many catgirls are in it?

What are some sci books similar to the themes of these songs? I don't know how to explain it, but they have this fantastic hopefulness and mirth to them. About a journey, overcoming and reaching the end. Really vague, I know, I guess I don't.

https://youtu.be/-wuV6mwx4tk

Estén todos listos,
no queda mucho tiempo;
vivan unidos y amando,
ya se acerca el momento,
ya se acerca el momento.
Del cielo vendrán,
pocos quedarán,
sálvense ya...

Llámenlos a todos
a los que no están muertos;
al que aún se sonríe,
al que mira al cielo
al que mira al cielo.
Falsos caerán,
muertos morirán
aferrados a su soledad...

Los del brillante en la frente,
los celestes hermanos;
nos llevarán en sus naves,
hacia mundos lejanos,
hacia mundos lejanos.
Donde comenzar,
una vez más,
una vida nueva.

Sálvense ya,
sálvense ya,
sálvense ya.

https://youtu.be/49AT_l9NEY4

En las piedras del camino
Se ha sellado mi destino
Caminar y alcanzar
El crisol y llevar

Nuevas aladas vientos de sal
Lucero andino pan celestial

En el fondo de aquel rio
Asechando vive el frio
No caere otra vez
El humo gris a tus pies

Solo las huellas de aquel que es
Llenan ahora todo mi ser

La morada de los dioses
De las cumbres llegan voces
Ya bajaran a ayudar
Y a la luz venceras

Bosque de brazos alzandose
Antiguo grito de hambre y de sed

/sffg/, I've been thinking over how to approach that pokemon problem I was talking about last night. I've decided that rather than them being pokemon they'll just be pets, but they have to serve some practical purpose to justify the characters using them

>one character who's a hunter/scavenger keeps a robotic bird. Because of his electricity magic he can see through its eyes and control it remotely
>another character with art magic keeps a cat made of ink because she can extract ink from it by milking it like a snake


still trying to decide what the cartographer's pet would be. I want it to be a reptile of some kind. Maybe I can base it on Dragon Dream

>>13413236
one can be like an onahole or sexual outlet for it's owner. also make it humanoid

>>13413245
haha anon. you are so funny

>>13413318
I wasn't making a joke.

Okay, I think I've got an idea for the cartographer's pet. It would be a turtle whose shell serves as a minimap of the surrounding area

>>13403237
I just picked it up but I remember absolutely shit all about God's Demon other than that Sargatanas got to heaven at the end.

>>13412019
Gay Rape and Incest, the necessary components for a quality sff novel.

>>13413043
I don't see why not, especially if you're having fun writing it. Needs some cleaning up though, lots of spelling errors
>>13413236
>Cartographers pet
A gila monster named Magellan with human female genitalia. When he enters it it acts as a sextant to help with his map making

>>13413347
can he fuck the turtle?

>>13412552
>/sffg/, why is it that, with the exception of lesbians, lgbt main characters in scifi/fantasy always feel so forced and unnatural?

Because they are unnatural people whose presence in any aspect of culture, including the books is blatantly forced by political agenda. And no, lesbians in Western fiction are just as bad and usually do not even slightly resemble actual lesbians (then again, this is increasingly true for women in general).

>>13412562
>Because 99% of the time it IS forced and the writer has no idea how to write those characters as not feeling forced. The rare exception is Quest for Lost Heroes by David Gemmell. There's a gay male couple in the group of protags, but Gemmell writes them so subtly you might actually miss they were gay.

This is doubly forced - writing just your normal straight males, who aren't obsessed with having promiscous sex with as many attractive men as they can, and pretending they are gay.

>>13413498
>my very existence is a political agenda
god, homophobes are even bigger faggots than twinks

>>13413525
Yes it is, and the fact that you march in lockstep with the rest of you fags, including accusing anyone who mentions your political group using in less than absolutely flattering terms of a mental deviation which makes them act irrationally, confirms that.

>>13413552
why are you gay?

>>13413498
Based moralfag crusader enforcing his beliefs on the wacky space/magic thread on a Lebanese flatbread baking website

>>13413559
>Lies and polticial pandering in my books feel unnatural and forced
>But truth is moralfag belief crusade because I don't like it

>>13413571
Ok retard

>>13413571
Go try and fail to shoot up a courthouse you pathetic right wing cuck

>>13413571
>truth

>>13413580
>>13413592
>>13413594
Seethe, NPCs.

>>13413621
>NPC
Back to your containment board you degenerate /pol/lack.

Don't ignore me Anons, please.

>>13413621
>sees gay people just casually existing
>reacts like an NPC
>other people criticize him
>calls them NPC's

>>13413636
Nah, I'm a Russian bot.

>>13413644
>gay people just casually existing

The whole subthread began because there is no such thing, to the point that either their presence of fiction is jarringly forced, or they have to be written so non-gay that you need to be extra careful to even notice they are supposed to be gay.

>NPC trying to appropriate the NPC meme

Okay.

>>13413661
you must live in San Francisco or some equally hellish place to think all gay people act like flaming faggots
>>NPC trying to appropriate the NPC meme
that's literally what you're doing, anon

>>13413677
>you must live in San Francisco or some equally hellish place to think all gay people act like flaming faggots

What can possibly make you think that the way they act in San Franciso is not the way they would act everywhere if they manage to take as much power and freedom?

Or, speaking about fiction. Do you deny that LFBTQWTF, as a group, do whatever they can to force de-facto representation quotas and claim as much of those quotas as they can to themselves, and that they are already switching from prasing authors for inclusiveness to bashing them for lack thereof?

>NPC projecting

Okay.

>>13413740
>>13413661
>>13413621
>unironically calling people NPCs
Christ you're a faggot

>>13413740
>Do you deny that LFBTQWTF, as a group, do whatever they can to force de-facto representation quotas and claim as much of those quotas as they can to themselves, and that they are already switching from prasing authors for inclusiveness to bashing them for lack thereof?
The whole queer thing is only prominent in the west. LGBT exists way beyond the western world and is also understood and talked about in different terms depending on region.
Far East LGBT attitude is pretty different from western LGBT. Many japanese LGBTs believe that the right way of making themselves be accepted into society is not to emphasize uniqueness but to show that they can fit in, operate well and contribute to society as individuals. Japanese queer fiction for the most part has no superior/inferior, moralistic angle. It's much more about struggles and difficulties in society, or love as it is (that is, gays and lesbians love their partners and in a sense you could kind of make it a heterosexual fiction and it could potentially work just fine).
I don't necessarily agree with how the LGBT group asks for representation and I find it poor in both an aesthetic and a personal sense. But that doesn't mean you should think this is somehow inherent to LGBT people. You can dislike western LGBT ideology and its influence on fiction without hating LGBT people as a whole.

>>13413769
Don't bother, man, he's got the brainworms
This is the power of echo chambers, they make you think that you're right and the entire world is against you
You know the truth and the everyone else are braindead sheep who can't see past the propaganda

>>13413769
I mostly agree, but we happen to live in the West, and, to keep things more on topic modern science fiction/fantasy, particularly science fiction is not just predominantly Western, it is predominantly English (-language). Just in case this statement is somehow found controversial, yes most countries of note likely have plenty of their own sci-fi and fantasy authors, no, very few of those authors have reached an audience beyond those speaking in their original language, and only Japanese light novels/Chinese fantasy just recently started doing it en masse (and even then they are still niche so far, light novels mostly being carried by popularity of anime and manga).

Therefore we're likely to keep seeing saint gays and bad guys who weren't just treacherous, dishonorable, power-grabbing mass murderers but needed to commit the ultimate crime of being homophobic to make sure they are not accidentally mistaken for good guys.

>>13413778
>More NPC projecting

>>13413830
>and only Japanese light novels/Chinese fantasy just recently started doing it en masse
The japanese science fiction tradition dates back to the 60s, and gained traction in the 70s. The Seiun Science Fiction award, which is the japanese equivalent of the Hugo Awards, was established in 1970. Important writers such as Hoshi Shinichi and Tsutsui were already writing science fiction since the 60s.

> just recently started doing it en masse (and even then they are still niche so far, light novels mostly being carried by popularity of anime and manga).
Nope, the ascension of light novels into popular japanese culture began in the 2000s in what's called the "golden age of light novels" (google ラノベ黄金時代, pick a website and google translate it for you to have an idea). While there are distinct science fiction and fantasy elements in light novels, they are distinctively influenced by the moe culture that exploded back at that time. The writer is purposefully written to appeal to a young audience and as you know, illustrations are sparsely found in important pages, though frequency varies. Above everything, the definition most agree for light novels is that they must be advertised as such, and publishers who do so tend to exclusively publish light novels.
Now for the important part: there are a variety of science-fiction novels that have sold very well in Japan that have little to no connection with light novels. They are from different publishers that typically have not released anything that can be called a light novel; the typical light novel tropes of, say, high schoolers and paranormality in the 2000s and isekai fantasy in the 2010s rarely applies (especially the latter); and the writing is not distinctively simplified for a younger audience, as it is not marketed as such. Here's a few examples (bit ly since amazon japan links are enormous):

amzn dot to/2Jckbse amzn dot to/2XpP857 amzn dot to/2JnbHO1 all published by hayakawa, all are sci-fi. And here's the thing, before you criticize them for having anime art, you have to remember that anime art is the default on Japan. It has no necessary correlation with light novel or anime tropes. This kind of cover is perfectly normal there for the audience.

>But how do you know the writing is simplified??
Shumon Yuu, a visual novel writer, explicitly stated he was asked to write in simpler language when he was writing a light novel. Visual Novels, despite the bad reputation, do not have limits on the complexity of prose. I can take you a picture of the passage where he says that in a foreword of one of his books, if you want. H

Now for something relevant: Here's an anthology specifically of lesbian science fiction stories - am zn dot to/2Lx9emS . It's said to be yuri, so you can see there's overlap between manga genres and whatnot, but there's still an LGBT sci-fi tradition in Japan. There's more I could elaborate on if you're interested.

>>13413910
It is infomative, but I've already took as a given that any country of significance has their own sci-fi and fantasy literature.

What I was talking about is that very little of that literature reaches readers worldwide, beyong those speaking the author's original language (for example you've mentioned Hoshi Shinichi - it seems about 1/100 of what he wrote is translated into my native language, and far from all is translated into English), while English-speaking authors of any significance are virtually guaranteed to have most of their books translated into dozens of languages. There are rare exceptions, for example Stanislav Lem or Strugatsky brothers, of whom at least regulars of these threads are aware, but they are exceptions, which can be counted on your fingers. Some of these exceptions also are carried to world fame not so much by strength of their own writing but by popularity of secondary works based on their works, like Sapkowsky who was unheard of in the English-speaking world until the Witcher games became a hit, or, as I believe, most light novel authors.

Now light novels, and more recently, to a much lesser extent, Chinese fantasy are different in that not just works of a single exceptional author, but whole directions in non-English literature, including writers who honestly are trash, are being translated into multiple languages, and achieving worldwide popularity.

>There's more I could elaborate on if you're interested.

Yes please.

>>13413973
The japanese sci-fi tradition is vast and I hope I accomplished showing that to you in that post.
I'd like to first emphasize how often we see female protagonists in japanese sci-fi fiction, in stories that mostly do not touch upon social justice, while still operating in certain gender tropes that characterize japanese girls, and at the same time a spirit of mystery and wander at a "magical" world.
So to start off with evidence, pic related is a variety of sci-fi books throughout the 2000s and 2010s with female protagonists. I have tagged the image with multiple markings indicating lesbian content, since this is what spun off the discussion, and cannot be ignored when discussing the place of lesbian romance in japanese SF, which occupies a niche perhaps tangentially similar to feminist science-fiction back in the 50s or so (I apologize if I get the time periods wrong). It is important to note that one of them is actually the translation of a western work, but I will elaborate on that later on.
One common theme you notice is that, in one way or another, most are covers involving a girl within the particular setting the novel takes place in. Most seem to be gazing at the reader with a bleak expression, or looking away from the cover, looking at the far horizon. I see this act as a representation for a yearn to find a distant, fantastical reality upon which one could endlessly explore. Japan often takes a few steps further and blurs the line between fantasy and science fiction, though not necessarily by introducing fantasy into sci-fi, but rather the romance of fantasy. Why are they all women? I believe this stems from two influences:
1 - The Only Neat Little Thing To Do, a short story by James TipTree Jr, the pseudonym of a female western science fiction writer, and
2 - Alice in Wonderland
"Sukoshi Fushigi" (少し不思議) is a japanese play with the SF abbreviation, meaning "a little bit mysterious". You may say that this "little bit mysterious" science fiction is a subgenre of its own. It involves women, often young girls, exploring some kind of fantastical universe possible thanks to technology. This technology, whether detailed or not in the book, typically possesses an air of mysteriousness, almost as if transient. Sometimes an elaborate fantastical world may have a scientific basis upon it, sometimes without explanation which blurs the line between SF and fantasy. Not all books in the picture necessarily follow this idea; there is a diversity of stories, but the centerpiece that could perhaps unify most is that a woman is on a personal quest in which she discovers and learns about the world as she experiences her surroundings.

>>13412949
Orphans of Chaos is his magnum opus.

>>13414298
Now I know this definition may sound rather vague, but I find it important to emphasize that this spirit of exploring this vibrant world around them is definitely in spirit of Alice in Wonderland and The Only Neat Little Thing To Do. Specifically in the latter there is a friendship between the protagonist and a female character. This yearn for adventures throughout space and space may come off as childish, and indeed it is echoed in anime aimed for children like this season's Precure: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2j-TiYLVx2Y
This innocence and curiosity seems to blend young girls with a spirit of purity (though please don't latch on too much to this word) and earnestness. Infantilization of women is actually a pretty common thing in far east cultures as the west is aware, but I find the consequences of this fairly complicated. I tried to articulate something but I wasn't capable of writing a coherent thought that I truly feel confident in, unfortunately. I would be tempted to guess that the rather formalist, rather new-crit approach of the japanese to fiction would probably lead most to find the character of these protagonists to be inspirational, divorced from the supposed domestic roles that a woman must have and which is still enforced in japanese society. I often get the impression escapism is far from being a phenomenon unique to otaku culture, and at often times you find japanese contemporary literature which shows disdain for the idea of "growing up" and turning into a mundane, soulless wageslave. But these are very faint impressions.

>>13412934
Reminder that his dad literally let himself get fucked in the ass by a barbarian. Logos, the shortest path indeed.

>>13414419
If anything, I guess this infantilization represents a wish to break free from a restrictive and imposing society. The tales the japanese tell are very much in the spirit of literature without a political agenda, and I would guess that the presence of lesbians just serves to emphasize even further this emotional, expressive liberation of a girl amidst a world filled with magic and wonder, who can find love too that can be innocent, curious and earnest just like she is.
The ideal male of japanese society, as far as I can tell, is not really a "chad" but a man who owes up to his responsibilities, is intelligent and obedient as an inferior, and imposing as a superior. Delinquents are clearly seen as deviants in japanese society, and not desirable traits to have. So I would venture to say that lesbianism is a form of further liberation from this imposing of order. It could be just bullshit speculation but I do think that all of this lesbian sci-fi, which is even framed as yuri and not straight up lesbian (as gay is framed as yaoi or BL), serves as a form of escapism from society and a way for japanese people to actually "live life" through all of these fictional characters. I think a lot of people on /lit/, if they ignored the gender of the characters and put aside more often their manchild / mature dicotomies, could find a lot of insight and beauty in japanese sci-fi and even some LNs (though I don't think most of the good ones are being translated, if any, at least that would appeal to them perhaps?) I can't imagine how it must be like for almost an entire society to work day and night, frequently staying overtime.
I ended up talking about how lgbt relates to japanese sci-fi and touched a lot on gender. Hope this didn't piss you off or anything, I'm just speculating really.

>>13414459
>>13414419
>>13414298
what is your endgame here with these wall of texts

>>13414467
Mostly trying to develop my ideas on things that I care about. Guy asked me to elaborate further and I decided to do so. I know most don't give a shit about japanese sci-fi but I thought perhaps it would be of interest to some, and the thread is already past its bump limit.

>>13413020
They always put a girl in a dress and say it's a trap. To have people questioning their sexuality and mess with their mind. It looks like a girl, acts like a girl, walks like a girl, and talks like a girl, then you're told it's a guy.

>>13413225
Fuck off to the screamo board /mu/tant

We're up.

>>13414533
>>13414533
>>13414533
>>13414533
>>13414533

>>13414298
>>13414419
>>13414459
I have no more time to comment and post my thoughts today, but thanks for all the interesting details, based anon.

>>13414459
I think it's important to clarify a few things:
>So I would venture to say that lesbianism is a form of further liberation from this imposing of order.
When I say this, I mean that by framing a relationship between two girls, this emphasizes their distance from society as a love that is born out of two girls who are yet to experience love. By adding a male, I believe it would be harder to take away the idea of responsibility that men have feel to be courageous, strong and powerful in Japanese society. Given that otaku culture exists, clearly this is possible, and interestingly otaku culture also romanticizes pre-adulthood, since its setting is quite often high schools. When I look at stories involving males in Japanese science fiction, they are typically abstracted away or expected to fill in a role of heavy responsibility. Girls are not framed in such a way, though of course there are still traditional tasks that are asked from them from time to time in the confront between modernity and tradition, and there's the aforementioned responsibility asked from both genders.
This subgenre and japanese approach reminds me of this review on Alice in wonderland, in fact:
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show/114777542
This play between ideas and the discovery of a world free from the shackles of a strict society seem to be of importance to the japanese. Though I do believe that this process in itself brings to light many aspects of the human condition that I'm sure a lot of western readers would resonate with. Finally I just want to say it could be possible that this tradition of mystery and wonder could also be traced back to japanese folklore, edo ghost stories and other forms of supernatural fiction, and Heian era epics such as Genji Monogatari or Hamamatsu. Perhaps my interpretation is a mere reflection of a tradition that has already established itself centuries ago, just that it has now adapted to the japanese post-modern zeitgeist, with much of its characteristics still owing to tradition, and justified to its audience by the zeitgeist in place.