/lit/ - Literature

Brothers K

>>13385472
no but there's a youtube video that can ;)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLZ6zrPy6oo

>>13385472
This rich pederast being angry at God is a good argument for God probably being just. If god was as mean-spirited and unjust as he claims he'd be his most devout worshipper.

>>13385472
The God Delusion?

>>13385475
In what way?

>>13385477
How is it answered?

>>13385574
He’s angry at the suffering of others. Innocents. Never mind what you think of him, what do you think of the horrors your god allows on the children of this world. They have a special place in heaven for their agony? Thye can bow closer to god is it?

/r/ing the mspaint of fry and his catamite

>>13385472
You wouldn't exist if not by God
God could create the perfect world just for himself and leave losers like this guys to not even exist

>>13385477
Does Islam have more platonic influence than Catholicism?

>>13385472
The argument is the Fall; that our actions and disobedience led to the pain and suffering on Earth. Though the argument assumes we have free will.

>>13385599
Not the right board
>>13385603
Not an argument
>>13385625
>the first people eated thu apple god said no to
>so we all gonna hafta pay... TILL JESUS MADE IT ALL BETTER! :D
Except no. Old covenant still on then. Jesus was killed on the cross

>>13385472
The pain and suffering of others makes G-d's chosen people appreciate what they have that much more. It's not hard to figure out.

what’s his definition of justice? Every fag gets a cake?

>>13385472
The Silmarillion.

>>13385752
His sexuality isn’t the issue here at all, you filthy hypocritical christcuck

Really interesting thread. No answer to any questions. You must all know already you’re on the losing side

>>13385472
The reality is that, as a human, you are capable of transcending your suffering. You can live in such a way that it makes the injustice and pain that life is indeed full of WORTH it. It's cliche but there can be no good without bad. Why respect reality when it is rife with suffering? Because if you choose to overcome the suffering instead of just sniveling about it and pretending it's meaningless or pretending you can rationally prove God isn't real or something, life can be worth it. Oh and blowjobs are a thing.

>>13385472
the Bible.

>>13385852
You do realize that criticizing dumb answers does not actually constitute an answer.

>>13385933
>The reality is that, as a human, you are capable of transcending your suffering
>teach five year olds with terminal cancer how to meditate
>It’ll all be worth it!

>>13385472
Book of Job

>>13385973
>God is malevolent
The only actual answer.

>>13385943
>why bad thing God!?

>>13385980
How did you decide that he was malevolent, by what logic?

The cruelty and horrors of this world are the mildest taste of what awaits those who invite the wrath of the Lord in the afterlife. Imagine the unrestrained and unlimited sadism of a being both omnipotent and omniscient, with its most powerful adversary a mere illusionist. No hope of resistance, no hope of hiding. Even if you could reincarnate yourself indefinitely to escape hell, you would be pursued in this world. Whether you're a man or a single bacterium, you will be found and tortured exquisitely, should He will it. Then your next body will be found. And the next...

Submission, we are told, is humanity's only chance for mercy from this nightmarish figure.

>>13385472
literally the book of Job, arguably the first book of the bible ever written, answers this question

>>13385980
>God is malevolent
yes, and?
choosing not to believe in a malevolent force doesn't make it magically disappear somehow

>>13385999
Start here >>13385988

I had other questions ITT btw
If you don’t want to answer them, fine, just let the thread die.

>>13386046
>Bad thing
>God is evil sociopath

Cry more kiddo

>>13386058
I am not crying.
Fry did feel like killing him self at one point, but I’m not crying

>>13385943
How is that gods fault?

>>13386087
Could you be any dumber?

>>13385472
Moby Dick, Steve. Read it again.

I can't believe Stephen Fry is such a moron. Isn't he the most 'admired' man on TV?

>>13386092
You do realize by saying that God is evil you are putting yourself in the place of God and judging him? If you wanna do that do it, just know.

>>13385472

Pangenitor is also panphage, big fucking deal

Also, if we're going to accept for the sake of argument that there's an infinite intelligence that created the Universe, we also have to accept that that intelligence's understanding of morality will be infinitely superior to that of some half-evolved apes with lifespans of 100 years (if we're lucky)

I mean, who as a kid didn't rage at the manifest injustice at being grounded by our parents, the surest proof of their cruelty (or at least callous indifference) to us. A decade or two, and a couple dozen IQ points, later, we see that our parents were acting out of love toward us in our best interests. And that's the difference in intelligence and experience between a half-evolved ape and a half-evolved ape child!

When we're talking about comparing a half-evolved ape, who gets a century to learn things with his barely-sentient ape brain, and the literal architect of existence, who has been around longer than the fucking Universe -- we simply do not have the lifespan or intelligence to try to judge a God's actions or the world he's created. It could be that literally every horrible thing that happens to us individually or en masse is, over the perspective of millenia, the best possible thing that could've happened to us. We don't and can't know.

That's not even getting into the concept of an immortal soul and how transient and pointless anything that happens to our few decades on a big space rock would be.

Not saying there is a God, but if there is one, we are conceptually like individual gut bacteria trying to comprehend what the human's deciding to have for breakfast.

>>13386104
>making an actual thoughtful post on/his

Ummm mods?

>>13386119

Maybe my post is just bait, and anyone who replied to it on-topic would just get a flood of "u mad" and pepe memes

>>13386122

>>13386104
>something bad happens to somebody
>"not only did you probably deserve it, it's also the best thing that could've happened to you"
Absolutely fucking based.

>>13385673
>what is morality
>what is basic theology
>what is basic philosophy
Holy shit a half brain like you is the single best converter of agnostics to theism

>>13386126
>pic related

>>13386129

If we're positing that God is real, then we can only interpret "good" and "bad" from the perspective of a barely-sentient primate who's not even long-lived for a terrestrial lifeform. We can't even agree with each other on what "good" and "bad" even are. It might be that our concepts of "good" and "bad," from the perspective of an all-knowing being who's been around and thinking about stuff with an IQ approaching infinity, for billions of years, would find our ideas on morality hilarious.

"God's a jerk because there's suffering on Earth" is just a retarded argument from any angle. If you accept the possibility that there's a God, you have to accept that he will understand literally everything better than you could ever dream to.

Suffering is the essence of what it is to be alive. Embrace the Dionysian or wither unto nihilism and self denial.

>>13386181
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoQW03UFqQw

>>13385592
What do you care of children?
How can you judge a creator when you yourself would enthusiastically deprive such life the gift of existing in the first place?

If you kick a child, is that Gods fault too?
Is God the wind?
Would it be His fault if a child fell from the breeze, too?

You have no idea how grateful you should be to live in such a sandbox, this universe, free from divine authoritarianism.

>"I won't believe until I am a puppet"...
That is all I hear.

>>13386092
>...« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !mxvabIoSIE
>06/29/19(Sat)21:23:10 No.13386092
>>>13386087 #
>Could you be any dumber?

There isn't. Christcucks eternally BTFO by a sodomite.

Way to waste your only life on this earth with fairy tales, buckos

You people are worse than the New Atheists you chastise for using populist arguments and techniques when you cannot refute either side at all.

>>13385472
>I'm going to criticise God as being Evil and so God doesn't exist so technically a moral judgement can't be made since it is only defined by God but you know fuck him

>>13386297
lol

>>13386104
>>13386157
If one believes that God's understanding (that is, the true understanding) of "good" is unknowable to us, and that therefore many things which are foul to us are fair to him, then wouldn't the logical next step be to endeavor to spread the "foul" as well as the fair (that is, diseases and wildfires and such) in order to bring ourselves closer to accordance with the ineffable morality of God?

>>13386422
>If you kick a child, is that Gods fault too?

No, but he is culpable.

If you saw a drowning child and all you had to do was less than think of her safety and she would be safe, are you not culpable if you forgo this act?

God must be culpable in all suffering and all pleasure.

>>13386422
>how can you judge a creator
Cuz he gave me free will, dipshit
>if you kick a child, is that Gods fault
Since he gave me free will and did not prevent me from doing it despite having the power to do so, it is explicitly and only his fault. If a nuclear reactor once built is left alone to meltdown, we do not blame the physical constants of nuclear energy - we blame the people who create the possibility for such a problem to exist in the first place.
>is god the wind
Yes?
>would it be his fault if a child fell from the breeze
Yes
>free from divine authoritarianism
Even with free will, no one is free from god's authority, so this is a non-argument. You either believe him and do as he commands, or you suffer the consequences. That is not freedom by literal definition - it is only coercion. Ironic you'd call anyone else a puppet.

His statement is far too broad to be left as a discrediting of God. Before I make my statement to be clear this is not an argument for God but just simply going by the existence of God which does not intrinsically dispose itself either to the view of the existence or non-existence of God therefore not picking a side.

1. God perhaps was the Jeffersonian God in which he started the motion yet left man to mans destiny in order for any collective judgement as one of an array of things.

2. For there to be pleasure there must be suffering, and for there to be ultimate Pleasure as expressed by the rapturous experience of true art there must be true suffering of the lowest most pathetic existence. Both complement each other. The duality of existence as necessitated by the finite. That which was separated by God may not be united lest it collapse into degeneracy (interpret that as you will). This point of subject continues extensively within that of the occult. One cannot experience or identify without the other.

3. So many vast other explanations (often stupid themselves however not necessarily one such stupid example would be: an example would be say the child which was put to death by the rabid dog with this deterministic realm was but a horrible sinner in a past life which had committed such atrocity's it was in deserving of this cruel act as punishment.

But an example yet it conveys the near infinite variations of an example however I do believe the first two shall suffice as answer. The true proof of the spiritual is the individual experience of it and therefore further asserting the motive connection between individual and collective, God as transcending distance of man by compassion, as compassion and through the compassionate.

That is because justice comes after. It's not that big of secret.

>>13385472
>faggot jew
>has a meme understanding of shallow protestantism
>if g-d real why bad things lmao

God lets himself suffer and die at the hands of the the world, something this fat pedo looked over.

Anyway, the answer is free will. How would people develop if sky daddy stepped in and undid every bad thing, and they never had to suffer the slightest offence to emotion, body, or taste? Would they have any sense of themselves? Or would they be the literal embodiment of the npc meme?

>>13386536
>Wow lads look at me I sure am suffering in this world I created and have total control over!
>And remember that sin thing I made up? You're now forgiven!

>>13386536
Funny that you mention pedophiles. HAH!

>>13386446
This guy gets it. It's not about whether God is malevolent or not, but why and how should we worship him and/or use him/it as a source of human morality.

>>13386541
yeah, funny I mention pedos — cause they're all jewish faggots that shouldn't have been let into the preisthood to begin with. Not too dissimilar from fry, the OP and yourself

>>13385472

The Dark Tower series

>>13386554
>No true Scotsman
Yikes

>>13386556
>fags
>jews

Bible's pretty clear on this. Enjoy the last (You), hellbound tranny

people who actually read books≥the rest of /lit/≥butterfly≥christLARPers from /pol/

>>13386422
>What do you care of children?
Infinitely more than you or your god
>>13386455
All this

>>13386543
>this guy gets it! Goodness is unknowable to us
What a worthless thing your god is.

>>13386600
Still not as useless as your mutilated penis

>>13386540
>>13386541
>>13386556
>>13386568
Look at all these fools that couldn't answer my point>>13386502

>>13386600
Specifically you Butterfly tell me how is it that you have any form of compassion or sympathy for children to define their suffering as wrong or evil where in you lack any supreme judgement or justification on such an issue. There is some level of innate morals yet man refuses to see that morality is a product of both the spirit and the physic. Neither taking the advantage of the other but equals in themselves as morality.

I could really go on forever about my view on morality yet I find it would only be dragging on an unnecessary chain - We are to argue the effectual of morality and its necessary components not its exact makeup or definition.

>>13386627
Disgusting !

>>13386641
It’s really telling how you fools will really go on forever defending sociopathic malevolence as unknowable goodness, and chastise those with actual goodness in them. A egoist has more good in her than any of you children of god. How do you not feel shame at your reflection?

>>13386669
xD what makes you the arbiter of morality?

can we please just stop attacking butterfly? it's exhausting to watch people behave like touchy virgins.

>>13386684
I don’t want people to live in poverty and have to bury their toddlers when they die of malnutrition or pestilence

If god were an elected position I’d beat Yhwh and Jesus easily

>>13386455
Oh look another moron who doesn’t know the difference between foreknowledge and foreordination. It’s almost like studying basic theology would be helpful or something.

>>13386697
So? That's what you think. It's entirely subjective.

>>13386669
Except the difference is this your creator(going by what I mentioned early so please do not bring up the "but God doesn't exist" line because we aren't debating his existence). And please tell me what has done greater service to humanity the Christian doctrine which had preached to show strict morality to the poor at heart and to the meek. To self sacrifice for the greater good. Or one egoist lesbian that has done nothing good for society, wants free gibs for herself and doesn't want to contribute to society and others. Going by the fact that you consider yourself an egoist anarchist correct?

What this anon said>>13386684 you have no basis for any such moral judgement except 4 "muh woman feels". You dodged his point by just making an appeal to emotion here>>13386697

>>13386727
>Your creator
[Citiation needed]

>>13386737
ahhh anon I explained in this very same post the existence of God is not the topic of debate and even neglects the entire point of this argument. Actually it does not for God exists as archetypal element and as religions belief. No more is to be said.

The answer to that quote literally lies in Job. :3

But of course, my job here is done. It seems the detractors were sufficiently answered ITT

>>13385472
Very easy. Consider that we're in Hell and everything suddenly makes complete sense.

>>13386104

This is Atheism.

>>13386502
>For there to be pleasure there must be suffering

Categorically wrong, you don't have to be delirious to be reasonable, don't have to be a philistine to be a Philosopher, don't have to be depraved to be good, etc. Everything is a Monad, like THE Monad - God.

>no cs lewis
I thought this was the literature board.

>>13385592
Fuck off

>why should i respect a capricious, mean-minded, stupid leader that creates a world that is so full of injustice and pain?
btw here's a giant statue of him

>>13385472
If anyone here has read the bible you would know that people like stephen fry hate but worship "the god of this world," rather than the "real God," because again "ye are of their father..."

>>13386697
Of course, elections invariably put the worst possible persons in charge.

>>13386990
You misunderstand you fool, so much so you did not even understand after I remarked on duality later that the opposites cannot be united within the finite. If every man were Good no man would be Good for there would be no defining term, if there were only light there would be no light, if there were only lack of knowledge there could be no knowledge.

We are not apart from this reality - the reality itself is both delirious and reasonable, a philistine and a philosopher, depraved and Good.

FUCK JANNIES

>>13385592
children are just individualized parts of the one / the afterlife does not involve ego constructs or physical bodies / horrors are still experience, the concept that it was 'bad' experience is only relevant to your ego-self which will be left behind in this plane

>>13386104
This is almost same as lovecraftian cosmic horror view on god.
>>13386973
Really. This is some atheism shit

>>13386502
>1. God perhaps was the Jeffersonian God
Stopped reading from there

>>13387258
Its Almost Like Lovecrafts Ideas Were Highly Based In Preexisting Religious Thought

>>13386104
This post sounds like a battered housewife

>Oh this black eye's nothing, it was my fault anyway, he said so
>H-he's good really, he loves me!

>>13387296
how are we defining 'me' here?

>>13386104
Making God a completely unknowable, incomprehensible, alien being whose morality is entirely divorced from my own makes theism seem even dumber than if he was just malevolent. Would any of us care about a single one of our own gut bacteria? Would it make any fucking sense for us to reward or punish its behavior when it can't even begin to comprehend the hellish world of our colon on any level?

>>13385472
>why doesn't God let me be a disgusting degenerate
Sodomites, everyone.

>>13387450
>EW NO NO NO, YOU CANT PUT IT IN THERE, THAT'S ICKY

>>13386104
Translation: god works in mysterious ways

>UM UM
>MUHSTERIOUS WAYS DUDE JUST TRUST ME ON THIS

>>13387390
This is your mind on abrahamism

>>13385472
Serious answer, suffering is righteous justice applied to the harm caused by original sin. But suffering has also its function. By suffering we can better ourselves and achieve transcendence.
By the way, what humans cause to one another is due to free will.

>>13387491
>By suffering we can better ourselves and achieve transcendence.
tell that to children who are torture-murdered
>what humans cause to one another is due to free will
god shouldn't have designed us to be so prone to malice
he could have designed us to be virtuous by nature, so that we would not use our free will for evil

>>13387499
Like I said before, torture and murder are due to human free will. He did design us to be virtuous by nature, but we listened to Satan and chose to go against God. That was the original sin and after that all reality changed. God himself had to descend to Earth to save us from sin.

>>13387518
he should have designed satan not to be so deceptive
he knew all of this was going to happen, he could have prevented it
you hear of catholic/orthodox priests rolling down hills and being miraculously saved
yet where is god's intervention when a priest sodomises a child?
another case of his mysterious ways? does he not want to get in the way of the priest's free will to rape and abuse?
imagine if the raped child was unbaptized and later committed suicide, he would be damned
if the priest repented and sought forgiveness, he'd get to go to heaven with the rest of gang

>>13387532
>The road to hell is paved with the skulls of erring priests, with bishops as their signposts
God didn't make automatons. He gave to his creatures free will, even if they chose to go against himself. Evil is basically that, the absence of good and good is nothing more than going in accord to God's Will.
For why he gave us free will, it's because of love. He wished us to love between ourselves and to love him. You can't force love, but you can retribute it. God's retribution for love is eternal life.

>>13385472
>WAAAHHHHH MOMMY I HURT GOD IS EVIL

>>13387584
Dummy. Get it in context
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-suvkwNYSQo

You want a god to believe in? You think you need one? He clearly isn’t a loving god or there’s clearly things beyond his control, or more likely there isn’t any to begin with.
Grow up

>>13385472
for the same reason you shouldn't anger the guy that has a gun pointed on your head
why would you want to piss off the entity responsible for infinite pain and injustice?

>>13387652
>God knows my heart and understands that I'm only worshipping him out of a selfish fear and not genuine love for him
>Sends me to hell

>>13387671
maybe he gets his kicks off people fearing him, how would you know

>>13385592
Why does anyone pay this schizo nonce any attention

Bishop Robert Barron addressed what Fry said years ago. See:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07AWWJiyAU8

>>13387689
How am a schizo, furryfag?

>>13387687
If that's what he wants, then I would refuse to worship him, I find that morally repugnant.
>But he's God, you can't understand his morality
He is God and I am a man. If my limited capacity to understand morality can't grasp his, then all I can do is act in the world with regards to my own. If mine is imperfect and conflicts with God's, I don't care. He made me imperfect and there are consequences of that. Punishing me for that is childish and, again, morally repugnant to me.

>>13387722
100% this.

Any work of Epictetus will teach you that what God bestows upon you is up to you to make into a valuable lesson for yourself. Also, pain and unjustice is subjective and therefore calling what god does to you unjust or painful is just your opinion.

>>13387716
You fear God so much, you deny God.
Just like stevie fry. A man who is all for molesting youths, meanwhile clinging to a fake stereotype of the same nature to fight the Catholic church. A man who has made a career from mocking his own nation and its people, someone who has built himself an ivory tower just to spit on those are more righteous than he is, by his own standards elevating himself to a cult deity.
You honestly think that fag cares for the suffering of the innocent? Fuck no. He revels in it, it gives him an argument against God. Lest he'd actually do something to ease suffering instead of promoting vanity as virtue for his own hedonistic desiring.

>>13387687
>how would you know
You'd read the Bible.
See how the chosen people defy Him who chose them only to suffer and cry for help, and when help comes they repeat the cycle.
Jews like to promote themselves that they're the chosen people and that elevates them to a special status.
But their special status is to be an icon of the purest form of self arrogance that can only be healed through suffering.
You blame God for suffering children? For injustice?
And who are you to bitch about that? Where is your justice? How many criminals have you condemned and brought to justice? How many children have you taken into your care and raised them?
Any fat pederast who fucks kids every night can preach morals, but try and live them before even thinking to challenge God.

>>13387722
but then you would go to Hell, mate. I would rther swallow the bitter pill rather than suffer torment for eternity

>>13387788
coward, i'd rather go to hell
>>13387754
>what God bestows upon you is up to you to make into a valuable lesson for yourself
tell that to torture-murder victims and babies killed in microwaves

>>13387812
that's a bit presumptuous

>>13387816
until I see the Christian god as the Good, I will not worship him
take the eternity of hell out of the picture and i'd be more easily convinced

>>13387788
Any God willing to eternally and infinitely torture poor, imperfect creatures for not understanding a moral system that he made them incapable of understanding is evil, period.
I will follow the moral compass that I understand and was imbued with, and if that isn't good enough, oh well.

>>13387846
So what if he's evil? That makes it even more imperative to submit to him

>>13385472
Because
1.) You'll go to hell dumbass
2.) You're not God

>>13387851
>So what if he's evil? That makes it even more imperative to submit to him
the absolute state of christcucks
i'll suffer for an eternity before i bow down to evil

>>13387851
In that case I guess we should all try to be Satanists or Gnostics. Better than being a little bitch.

>>13387857
I am not a christcuck but it seems really presomptuous to me to believe that you could suffer whatever the fuck Hell is, you will bow down no matter what because he is fucking God, resistance is futile

>>13387846
What you guys don't get is that hell is a state more than a place. The fire that purifies is the same fire that burns. If you don't go along with God, the basis of all existence, you get to suffer because he's the source of all joy. Torture in this case comes from not knowing God. It is eternal because after death time doesn't exist.

>>13387874
what occurs under torture is beyond my control
but i can at least resist evil

>>13387877
yes yes we've heard the same shit before, the point is
he could have made it far easier to become close to him, for his so called loved children to know he is the way and to follow him
but no, he has designed thing so that the vast majority of humans are to be in extreme suffering for eternity
it is not beyond god's power to bring souls from hell to at least purgatory or heaven
are you not familiar with the harrowing of hell?
an eternal hell is not just

>>13387897
you can't resist omnipotent evil

>>13387904
i can attempt to while i can

>>13387466
KEK

>>13387897
He descended to Earth and preached how to get to him. The problem isn't what he did or what he didn't do, but what people do. You already know about his story and you still choose to deny him.
I explained in previous posts ITT about the nature of humanity.

>>13387928
if I believed I wouldn't deny him. I yearn for the good.
but I cannot force myself to believe something, especially something with so many problems and issues
The god of the OT strikes me as maniacal, eternal hell strikes me as unjust
Perhaps your god does not want me in his flock

>>13385472
The Upanishads

/thread

>>13387757
No. Imagine that, a boy who spends his time making shit up about people he doesn’t know, breaking his gods sacred commandment, can be 100% wrong about my motives.

>>13387941
You could pick a book and read. I already answered a bit about some basic problems people have about it, but that's just basic theology. There are 2000 years of tradition and people before had the same questions. That's why there are many pages on apologetics.

>>13387968
I could
but why must every human be under obligation to become a biblical scholar?
the path is too narrow and too hidden
I pursue it myself but I fear it is truth as many I love will be damned (my own damnation isn't so much an issue)

>>13385472
>Why would a 60 year old homosexual that sodomizes a man 40 years his junior deny the existense of God?
The same reason a 350 lb. man denies he's obese.

>>13387983
Nobody needs to be a biblical scholar to have faith. But it can help those who question the ways such as you. I blame our materialistic culture, but I won't get in details.
I disagree that the path is hidden. Almost all of the world knows who Jesus is. I also fear for my loved ones, but I trust God even more because nothing is impossible to him.

>>13387995
>there are no Christian homose
>Pedophile Priest Scandal article avalanche.jpg

>>13388004
I suppose. I just wish I knew more of his apparent love, although I am undeserving.

>>13388020
I believe we are all unworthy because we all sin. But even in this sinful state God loves us and gave us his grace and salvation as a gift. He didn't have to do it but he did it anyway because he loved us. What he expects from us is to love too.
So don't think you are undeserving. There are some saints who did even worse than you or I and were saved by him. If it's needed for you to study to know his love then do it, but also pray.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_of_Egypt

>>13388045
How should I pray?

>>13388074
Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name.
Thy kingdom come.
Thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread;
and forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us;
and lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. Amen.

This is what Jesus himself taught to his disciples. Learn to pray the Hail Mary. Also, learn to pray the rosary, it did wonders to my life and the people near me.
You can pray with your own words too. Just talk mentally with God and ask him.

thank god I don't believe in him

>>13385592
>boo hoo why do people suffer
Atheists are created because people suffer? Weak

>>13387296
Gut bacteria-tier post

>>13385472
yes, the bible. you should because you get rewarded for it.

>>13388313
No, atheists emerge from intellect. The enlightenment has turned out more and more of us each generation. The only reason we still have religions is because the power base know they are easier to control, just like in Constantine’s day.
The dominant faith is in state and capital

>>13385472
You're only allowed to be a smug fedora-atheist like this if you've actually read some theology textbooks, Aquinas, and Augustine. At least. Imagine never having read any physics books or whatever, and boldly proclaiming "huh so how is light both a particle and a wave? That's stupid. Why should I believe this blatant nonsense?"

>>13389139
To the average person quantum physics sounds as stupid and unbelievable as the Christian god does to the modern mind. It's all so tiresome. "But we can trust science, the foundation is solid" is just another version of "The church says so".

>>13389139
Dude you just have to become a scholar of Christian theology! It's that simple dude just trust me, God is totally just for sending unbelievers to be tortured for eternity, they should have just read 1000+ pages of thomistic theology

>>13385472
>Is there a book that can answer this
No, but check these numbers >>13388888

>>13389179
>unbelievers to be tortured for eternity,
Nope

>>13388013
>Doing something shamefully in secret vs. doing something openly and with pride.
You just won the stupidest post of the afternoon award.

>>13389139
>You can only attack my point of view until you learn and believe all of my garbage justifications!

>>13389204
The only way is through jesus and you must also be baptised
What else happens to them? It's not like you can be baptised post-death or repent and accept Jesus post-death

Catholic doctrine would have them in hell.

>>13389227
>physics PhDs should just humor the inane stupid bullshit the common man spews at him and the latter shouldn't educate himself before speaking on the topic

>>13389238
Hell?

>>13389294
Hell

>>13389215
I didn’t read your pastor’s pamphlet on Fry. I think there’s a good reason he’s not in jail right now.
But this is still a divergence from the point of the thread

>>13389287
The difference is that PhDs work from the evidence if anybody finds something that can be put into use it will be tested and if it works it becomes part of the discipline. Theologians work from the assumption that god exists and no amount of evidence will convince them otherwise. Its not reason, its just belief.

>>13389321
Unless you're a PhD yourself you just blindly believe whatever they tell you. Scientists are the modern day priests whether you like it or not, including the problem of quackery and being influenced by politics or capital. This guy got it: >>13389158

>>13387390
>completely unknowable, incomprehensible, alien being whose morality is entirely divorced from my own
Gee it's almost like the bible is a fantastic tool which illustrates and humanizes him and his will.

>>13389339
>the bible is a fantastic tool which illustrates and humanizes him and his will.
As a genocidal maniac who will stomp on the enemies of the Jew?

>>13386600
>proceeds to abort child
Well well well

>>13389310
Yeah it's called being an affluent and well-connected media personality. Not sure why you think that vindicates him in anyway but go off I guess.

>>13389361
Pretending to k ow my stance on abortion? Why not ask?

>>13389657
>Le Podesta child trafficking Jonesianist

>>13387264
Forgive the bad writing at that moment I was becoming rather tired and fell asleep in my chair. Now critique it like a man.

>>13386669
>collective, God as transcending distance of man by compassion, as compassion and through the compassionate.
>>>
> Anonymous 06/30/19(Sun)16:56:40 No.13386506▶
>That is because justice comes after. It's not that big of secret.
>>13386684
>>13386697
>>13386722
>>13387647
>>13387716
>>13387962
>>13388013
>>13388517
>>13389310
>>13389736
Funny how through all of this talk you never once breached beyond "muh woman feels" as well as an argument against my original point>>13386502

>>13385472
>capricious
>mean-minded
>stupid
>creates
>injustice
>pain
How can he use these words as if they mean anything when he says they don't (by denying the metaphysical, especially when these are explicitly Christian). These retards are just mid IQ Christians, not dumb enough to follow easily and not smart enough to follow intelligently. He should move beyond Christianity or shut the fuck up.

>>13389798
Here >>13386455

And I’m not yvm0QrHZZJQ

>>13389833
>muh theology ith intellygunt
You’ve not saved him from the pire, anon. It’s done and gone. Write to Santa. Maybe you and he can take the slay on a mad quest to find Him and bring Him back to the children. Oh, think of it! Such lovely bondage, such a bloody albatross around the neck! Weee.

>>13386119
You're on /lit/, you fucking idiot.

>>13389947
So at this point you're basically like 'fuck me, :3, fuck me super hard'???

>>13386502
Your argument posits duality as the base of existence and then you assert god as first monadic mover, in the last paragraph you atribute the distance of man to man itself, instead of the creator, then posit the redemption for that very distance to god instance of man itself, make up your mind

>>13385574
underrated

>>13385943
Freedom isn't free.

>>13389947
>>>13389798 (You)
>Here >>13386455
>And I’m not yvm0QrHZZJQ

how does any of this refute my point?

>>13385472
unironically the Bible

>>13385472
Yo udon't need a book, you just need to realize that Stephen Fry is per definition infinitely stupider than any being that could be called a god and by necessity infinitely stupider than any being that could create the entire cosmos, therefore his butthurt and his pissy value judgments prove nothing.

>>13385574
Also this.

>>13386098
>I can't believe Stephen Fry is such a moron. Isn't he the most 'admired' man on TV?
Some other bong described Fry as "a stupid person's idea of a smart person" years ago, and that's extremely accurate t bh.

>>13389336
Certainly for the layman, who does not investigate or get educated it may seem like academia holds a priestly power. Hell your skepticism of academia is healthy, yet this power resides in the results it brings. All scientific claims are falsifiable, unlike say religious "truths" that come from "divine" inspiration and must never be questioned. You can tell me that you believe and it is your right as a human being and I believe you should be allowed to have it but you shouldn't claim that your ignorance is as good as knowledge.

>>13387127
drumpf btfo

>>13386455
>>13386990
do these analogies actually make sense in your head?

>>13389947

>>13391353
Whaaat? Where’s that from?

>>13389139
>>13389158
But we know wave-particle duality works because we use it in spectroscopy.

Whereas the ”proof” for the xtian god is... some scrolls written by random dudes which were arbitrarily collected into one book by other dudes. And some modern people’s ”proof” through their own spiritual experience, i.e. self-induced psychosis.

I mean its just the Problem of Evil rephrased. I think good answers to it exist but they have to go outside the current Christian system:
>Gnosticism. Physical existence is inherently evil and the Creator is either evil or misguided. The goal is to ascend and escape the material.
>The metaphysical system described in the Birth of Tragedy, but then you aren't really dealing with Christianity anymore, although Christianity can be re-interpreted under this lens.
>Reincarnation and karmic debt, as well as the idea that existing in a physical body is punishment for a sin your true self made in the spiritual world in the first place. Despite what modern Christcucks will tell you this can be grafted rather seamlessly onto the source material.
It's true that modern, western Christianity has nothing even approaching a satisfying answer to the PoE on its own merits.

>>13385472
Mere Christianity

>>13388517
Atheists are currently decreasing in their percent share of humanity and they have been for years now. Meanwhile, Christianity and Islam are growing.
Only place atheism can really be said to be thriving is China.

>>13392307
I am curious as to how you gauge the shared beliefs of atheists and the extent to which they are influenced by a disbelief in the existence of an interventionist god. Also, curious how you navigate the space in which a religion is what its primary texts say, their interpretive latitude, how they are interpreted by their adherents, what these adherents believe based on their interpretations and how they act based on these beliefs, all rendering a category in which beliefs diverge significantly on almost any given thing.

Because the evil greman anglo prot God isn't the god of the rest of Christianity.

>>13385472
Why read a book when the answer is a single sentence? The world's justice and injustice and suffering and joy are in balance, the only way they can metaphysically exist. A 14 year old could tell you that. If you want an analytic proof I've got that as well but you'll have to take my 3 hour lecture.

>>13386104
Very high IQ and effortpilled

Stephen fry is the archetypal pseud. If atheists relate to anything he says they are instantly lowered. Quote actual intelligent people talking about atheism, not this verbose pedophile

>>13386098
What’s moby dick got to do with this

probably a lot
mate the church has doctors who have written on the subject for over 1000 years

>>13385472
how can people not comprehend god wants humans to have free will, the world is whatever we make it if god was mean spirited he'd be killing off everyone who doesn't believe in him, also how ego fueled do you have to be to believe you can call someone who created the entire universe stupid, think of how complex something "simple" like trees are imagine being so big headed you call someone who invented and designed everything stupid

humans are the ones who created and unjust and painful world, it's not god shooting people, it's not god raping people, it's not god running companies that sell liquid sugar to obese people it's people doing it

>>13387962
You've made your points clear.
Either you have none or you're a pussy.

>>13392916
Lmao, the circular reasoning on display is simply delicicous

>>13392916
such cute retardery

>>13392981
>>13392983
not a counter argument

>>13392988
so?

>>13392988
Free will isn't real

>>13392988
His accusation (and fallacies in general) implies there isn't a valid argument to respond to, rather than that the opposite claim was true.

>>13386536
So heaven?