/lit/ - Literature

>>13375820
What are some good graphic novels or comics?
I'm down to read anything never got into the medium

>>13375820
Just to clarify: I mean that all fiction should not be just words on paper, its just a waste of trees. Non fiction is fine, but i mean, why even write a novel when you can't control what the reader is thinking? Ambiguity is just a hack used by talentless motherfuckers (Dostoyevski). Ambiguity is good when it aint exploited. Traditional literature has died, so start drawing you fuckers!

>>13375826
Maus, Watchmen, The Killing joke, V for Vendetta. You can start out with those. The medium is currently lacking on adult content, we should prolly raid it.

>>13375826
From Hell
V For Vendetta
Watchmen (however the point is kinda lost if you have not read super hero comics)
Maus
Sandman

t. /co/

>>13375826
Y the Last Man (series but whatever)
The Dark Knight Returns
Currently reading Preacher

I unironically think comics are better than the written word for some kinds of stories.

The Hellboy comic "The Corpse" is a lot more atmospheric than the source "Teig O'Kane and the Little People".

>>13375826
Jimmy Corrigan
Blankets
Corto Maltese

>>13375820
a picture is an abstraction of reality
a letter is a picture of sound, translating to language, an abstraction of reality
your views are childish OP, and your grip is weak

>>13375820
>>13375839
>>13375920
tasteless plebs. equivalent of listing stephen king books as the pinnacle of literature.

-victor moscoso
-olivier schrauwen
-chris ware
-george herriman
-leon sadler

>>13375820
>can't control what the reader is thinking
this is the basic and function of written word that makes it so fundamental to helping develop and structure the readers mind

I'd argue that your argument is centered around that fact that it would be easier if the reader didn't have to use their mental faculties in order to organize the words upon the page until they can seize the claim, fact or idea they are conveying

that said there are some comics comics crafty in a way that require similar use of higher functions.
Asterios Poylp
Habibi
BodyWorld
Cages
Skyscrapers of the Midwest

Comics aren't literature. Wrong board.

How can you be so ignorant and not see the downfall of your shitty literature? Stop venting, people dont need to read your depressed pessoa copycat shit. Stop fucking wasting ink and paper on awful shit like "My diary desu"

>>13375827
>Non fiction is fine, but i mean, why even write a novel when you can't control what the reader is thinking?
Are you retarded or just underage?

>>13376855
>>13376855
STOP WRITING THIS SHITTY AWFUL SAD CRYBABY LITERATURE JUST TO MAKE IT RELATABLE. I DON'T RELATE TO ANY OF THAT SHIT AND NEITHER WILL PEOPLE OF MY GENZ EVER RELATE TO YOUR JOHN GREEN SHIT. LITERATURE SHOULD BE AS EXPRESSIVE AS MOVIES BECAUSE ITS REALLY NOT CUTTING IT NOWADAYS. ALL OF THE SHIT YOU RECOMMEND ON THIS BOARD IS FUCKING BORING AND CLEARLY SELF INDULGENT. HOW ABOUT YOU STOP WORSHIPPING DEAD AUTHORS AND START CREATING SOMETHING ORIGINAL, OR IS IT THAT YOUR MIND IS SO POLLUTED WITH DFW AND BORGES THAT YOU CANT EVEN THINK SOMETHING ORIGINAL ANYMORE?

>>13376885
Based and redpilled.

>>13376885
OP here, I think it's settled, nobody needs to say anything against my logic because it's too perfect and yours is too flawed, now everyone get the fuck out of here and start drawing and writing comic book scripts, it's for your own good.

/lit/ af

>>13376885
cringe kys. I don't even know what you're doing in this board. Summerfags, I suppose.

>>13376885
Pynchie's still alive, right?

>>13375820
i´m not a weeaboo but manga approaches the medium far better than western comics, Saito Tamaki talks about it in lenght in his book Beautiful Fighting Girl

>>13377394
Manga is a meme. Even in the good pieces there's always a cringe moment.

>>13375826
If you haven't read anything then this list is pretty good
>https://www.cbr.com/the-top-100-comic-book-runs-master-list/
Ignore the title and that it was published by cbr,they are not the "Best of all time!1one" there are hundreds of better comics than the ones of that list but it is good starting point.
>>13376577
based

>>13377405
>In this sense we can say that the time of manga and anime is kairo-
logical. The credit for inventing this technique goes, not surprisingly, to
Tezuka Osamu. It was Tezuka’s introduction of kairological time that made
manga after Tezuka so utterly different from manga before Tezuka. One
can already see that kairological time has taken over in those instances
where he uses only the division of the frames rather than words or narra-
tion to express a character’s emotional turmoil.

>>13377394
Not every comic is capeshit
>>13377405
Not every manga is a battle shonen

>>13377425
>>13377405
>>13377427

For example, even cutting- edge American comics are quite slow- paced
compared with Japanese manga. This slowness is what limits American
comics and keeps them from ever being able to surpass the popularity of
fi lm. So why are American comics so “slow?”

>>13377432
s it because the drawings are so detailed and intricate? It is true that a
comic like Heavy Metal has extremely detailed, almost lifelike drawings,
which makes it diffi cult to skim them. But even in Japan there are some
manga artists, like Araki Hirohiko and Hara Tetsuo, whose heavy illustra-
tions overpower everything else—yet their works are much more fast-
paced than American comics. Why is this?
American comics are fundamentally loyal to the techniques of cin-
ema. In other words, they use chronological time in every respect. The
fl ow of time from frame to frame is always even, and emotional prolon-
gation and exaggeration is minimized. The characters’ subjective view-
points are rendered through their monologues, and they do not demand
readerly identifi cation any more than necessary. In Japanese manga, on
the other hand, particularly since kairological time was introduced by
Tezuka, there has been a proliferation of techniques for rendering brief
moments with high density and a very light touch. As these techniques
were developed and further refi ned, they forced readers to identify with
the characters even as they made it possible for them to read at a very
fast pace. There is nothing else like this in the history of representational
culture. It is very different from the way short time periods are repre-
sented in long novels such as the four days of the Brothers Karamazov or
the single day of Joyce’s Ulysses. The high temporal density of these liter-
ary works derives from their indexical and polyphonic narrative struc-
tures. What they lack, moreover, is speed. The paradoxical combination
of high- density and high- speed forms of expression is the unique quality
of the media space of manga and anime.

>>13377438
The atemporality of manga derives from the screen effect whereby
something looks as if it were stopped because it is moving so fast. Atem-
porality is not the only effect made possible by this copious descrip-
tion of instantaneous moments. I have pointed out that it also makes
speed- reading possible. What does the copious description of instanta-
neous moments have to do with speed- reading? Here it would be useful
to explain one of the most conspicuous codes that characterizes manga
and anime.

>>13377432
There's nothing wrong with "slowness" in comics, you filthy zoomerfag, go watch a Transformers movie if you want explosions every 10 seconds.

>>13377425
>>13377438
This two posts have more quality than everything that has been posted on /a/ and /co/

>>13377452
pic related

>>13377451
pleb, that what Saito was arguing in his book, makes a lot of sense

>>13377452
/co/ is full of furries and kids shows. I thought they discussed serious comics but it's all shite.

>>13377464
I won't read a mangafag book lmao manga is for bizarre trannies and fatfucks from Bumfuck, America.

>>13375826
Cerebus
Anders nilsen
Shaun tan
Those stray pretty far from capeshit tropes

>>13376975
what logic, you barely made a claim and didn't even provide an argument

>>13376885
Jeez op i would never have guessed you were this retarded from your first post. What you've said about ambiguity is a clear sign your an idiot as you need everything to be spelled out for you and cant take the idea of multiple valid interpretations of life or the idea of no validity whatsoever. Interpretation allows you to engage your imagination and thus aids immersion and escapism. There are details i can imagine that cant be rendered with pictures like how the chill of the night air feels or the sense of desolation from looking into the eyes of a peasant. Literatures value above comics is that it engages that imagination so it carries us further than the fictional work itself. Comics just tell more than they show in this respect imo i.e. the images tell you how a character walks. If a narrator says he walked with an arrogant swagger we get to imagine tha swagger thus aiding immersion.

Just because your an idiot doesn't mean you need to criticise others op, your just a slave moralizing. If you want cinema, watch cinema. Same with comics. Dont complain to us if your a pleb with pleb taste and intellect.

Holy cringe.

Its all a waste of trees seeing as we can read on screens now. Alan moore is with frank miller probably one of the more based comic writers.

>>13377394
Probably.

Also to all the faggots saying wrong board. Calm the fuck down. Its still story telling. You fags are too literal too often.

>>13376885
In this post: rot brain zoomer spergs out over his brainletism

Graphic novels are fine for people who like them, I just don't like it when comic book nerds can't tell that I'm not someone who likes graphic novels and prattle on about how great Sandman is and Snyder committed an unforgivable sin by changing the ending of Watchmen

>>13378623
>Its still story telling.
There's a board for cartoons and comic books, you fucking faggot. Narrative film is also a form of storytelling, we don't talk about film here very much though because it's not the film board, nor is it the storytelling board.

>>13377432
american comics used to be very fast, slowing began in the 2000s

>>13375826
Genuine literature:

Watchmen,
The Sandman by Neil Gaiman. People say this takes till volume 2 to really pick up but I really enjoyed volume one even with its not quite yet solidified tone.
V for Vendetta from what I remember.
Arkham Asylum: A serious house on serious earth
Maus

Stuff that I think is really good, but that I wouldn't quite recommend to a literature snob:
Saga
Preacher
The Killing Joke.
Garth Ennis' The Boys if you can deal with the immaturity and crudeness to get to a really strong third act.
Kingdom Come(closer to the above category than this one.not my favourite thing but very acclaimed)
All Star Superman(not my favourite thing but very acclaimed)
Scott Pilgrim/Seconds by the same author.


Stuff I just enjoy but acknowledge there are legitimate things to dislike or that they may not have enough going on thematically for some people:
The Walking Dead
Death Note.
Gwen Poole
Superman, Red Son(politically nonsense but very entertaining)

>>13375820
>>13375826
All-Star Superman

>>13377432
Final Crisis: Superman Beyond

>>13379817
>Scott Pilgrim/Seconds by the same author.

>>13379842
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofEhOQop5Xw

if comics are serious literature then why is it all genre shit

>>13379865
>>13379874
Seething brainlets. There are way more shitty books than bad comics

>>13379892
>a medium that was created a 2000 years ago vs a medium created in the last century

of course there will be more bad books than comics, but doesn´t excuse the level of bad quality most comics have, even the best of the best are mild compared to the best books out there

>>13375826
My favorites are The Sandman(Gaiman), League of Extraordinary Gebtleman(Moore) and The Invisibles(Morrison). All very thoughtful and interesting in distinct ways.

Sandman is the story of love, loss and the human condition as told by the embodiments of endless ideas and concepts. Really a masterful work by a fantastic atory teller.

League is an odd one you're probably at least minorly aware of. It's an epic tale about Jonathan Harker's widow, set in a world where literally all literative figures co-exist and overlap. Picking up on the sly way they handle all the contradictions is in itself pretty fun. The story itself is even more so.

The Invisibles isn't for everyone, but it's definitely got a certain sort of wisdom and vision to it that's tough to find in comica or on any medium, really. Lots of occult and esoteric nods and the idea behind the story is really something else, though it can be a bit tough to decipher if you're not hip to the context.

>>13376885
DFW sucks but you're infinitely worse

>>13375920
>Preacher
The show is infinitely better than the comic so far. I was a big fan of the original run, but the creative team behind the revival is just something else altogether.

>>13375820
https://discord.gg/MXPNTez

>>13380578
The Woods by Tinion is another great read. A highschool is transported to an alien planet, forcing the children and staff to take on new roles in order to syrvive. Sounds a bit kitsch, but the execution is flawless.

>>13379944
>he doesn't go to his local Grecian museum to read the urns

>>13375820
And animation is better than comics. Comics are a waste of ink.

>>13375826
Steel Ball Run

>>13376169

Bless you for apparently being the only other person in this thread who has read Jimmy Corrigan. I maintain it's the only graphic novel ever written that deserves the distinction.