/lit/ - Literature

>it's another demiurge thread

>>13334068
any evidence it exists?

>>13334099
Yeah, it’s called the universe

>>13334099
Suffering proves it exists retard.

>>13334108
>>13334125
so what?

Wait but who created the realm that the demiurge exists in?

>>13334125
>suffering proves a snake with lion head exists

>>13334068
Muh nosetism.

>>13334151
It’s an infinite sequence of demiurges laboring in darkness, making more demiurges, forever

So when a genuine gnostic sees something beautiful or something that makes them happy, do they come to hate it because it's a trick of the material universe to keep him there or what? Or does he think that the monad is what allows such pleasures to exist? I have difficulty understanding such a mindset.

>>13334179
unironically kys

>>13334168
No, there's supposed to be a source that the demiurge precipitated from.

>realize the demiurge exists and that this is a fake world
>can't escape it physically anyways
Bravo, Sophia.

>>13334140
it means life could be better but you dont want to imagine that

>>13334099
t. slave of the archons

>>13334108
The universe is very much a part of the material world.
>>13334125
That’s not actually proof. This is like saying Tinker-belle is real cuz she’s in Neverland.
>>13334296
He’s a slave for asking. I see.

>>13334099
It seems evidence is part of the material world, and because there is no evidence, this proves he’s real. Just like Tinker-Belle

>>13334179

a genuine gnostic does not have excessive hatred for the material world or the beautiful things in it. one can admire beauty while knowing that it is subject to decay and knowing that you should not become attached to beautiful things

>>13334154
ebin

>>13334179
Worldly pleasure does serve to entrap us, yeah. But once this is all realized, pleasure isn't to be hated or loved unduly.

>Have no fear of the flesh. Don’t love it. If you are fearful, it will gain mastery over you. If you love the flesh, it will swallow and paralyze you.

It just is what it is – there are more important things to worry about, and it can be irritating. And if you allow it to master you, it's one of the primary sources of misery:

>The four chief demons are: Ephememphi, who belongs to pleasure [...] And from pleasure much wickedness arises, and empty pride, and similar things.

The one who 'gets wise' sees pleasure for what it is, no more, no less – it's not important, and can't entrap you anymore, whether indulged in or not.

>>13334319
>be crass materialist
>end up like butterfly
Look at your life and tell me the demiurge isn’t real

>>13334603
*looks at life*
The demiurge isn't real.

>Sophia! Help me!

>>13334603
Look beyond your life and tell me you are trapped in material reality and not just privileged to spend some time helping to shape it.

>lives life in balance
>dying
>all shadows dissolve in the light of the Monad
>demiurge loses another soul
heh, nothin personal creep

>>13334629
For the benefit of any lurkers—this is what an archon looks like.

>>13334261
maybe we just don't deserve a better life?
Logos is merciful enough to allow us to evolve in each incarnation
many people are complete shit even though having easy lives

>>13334724
It's not about desert. The spirit blows where it pleases, and salvation is a gift of grace helped by the willingness to receive it.

>>13334719
Ayahuasca induced hallucinations rule?

>>13334629
What was your experience on it, I've never had hallucinations on it

>>13334179

The world is too pitiful to offer even one example for such a question.

>>13334153
its just a metaphor not an actual being

>>13334179
for something to be truly beautiful it would have to be imperishable, and everything in this universe is subject to entropy.

>>13334068
Aw, you bitch!

>>13334095
HUH. So demiurge isn't a dnd thing.

>>13334762
My first time wasn't super visual but there was a presence that I couldn't see but did perceive with what felt like certainty. It said some very confusing things that, upon reflection later, helped me identify a personal problem that had been really sapping my happiness. The second time I went far deeper, and could barely perceive my physical self, the physical world, or my Shaman, but I had a full auditory and visual experience. When Rogan and others talk about "Machine Elves", I can understand what they mean, especially with the texture of the entity, but if you've ever looked at a recolored MRI 2D cross section of a human body, you see how the form is identifiable, simultaneously bizarre, and almost fractal? The entity I communed with (which I perceived as an angel of some sort, but didn't have enough ego to ask it's name) was like that, except a 3D 'slice' of a 4D being. If it moved or I moved, what I saw changed in color, texture, and form, but I knew it was just another part of the whole which exists beyond just our 3d perception.

This time it expressed joy at my return and we spoke about how intentionality, especially of happiness, and space flight (we aren't doing it enough, we are wasting resources on trivial shit we should instead devote to this, particularly on war and consumerist goods), children (people who don't choose to have them have abandoned the future and that is sad, particularly when they are from space fairing cultures), and mourning (honestly basic shit about not mourning the loss experienced by the deceased, mourn the loss of the deceased by the living, but don't overdo that either).

I'm a Lutheran, and while what I experienced challenged me, especially the personal issue in the first trip and the bit about childlessness in the second, none of it that I can recall really challenged any bit of my faith. I really want to try a shallow trip at church next, but I'm not ready for it yet.

Might do a shallow journey for trip 5 at a rocket launch if I can figure out the logistics.

>>13334179

>From the beginning you have been immortal, and you are children of eternal life. And you wanted death to be allocated to yourselves so that you might spend it and use it up, and that death might die in you and through you. For when you nullify the world and are not yourselves annihilated, you are lord over creation and all corruption.

>>13334068
maybe the material world was created to ESCAPE from the hell of the noumenal world, like Amber was created to escape from the Courts of Chaos.
i dunno, i said maybe.
what evidence points to the truth?

>>13334153
Lel

Hello /x/, what are you doing here?

>>13334319

oh shut up you useless faggot. I'm sorry I ever thought agnostics were cool. I thought you'd be wiser somehow, but you're just as opportunistic as anyone else.

>dualityfags
lol

>you can't just eat the demi-

Can Gnosticism be compatible with non-dualism?

gnosticism is fun in literature because it works as political metaphor for any kind of regime, it also works in a Romantic sense as mastery and transcendence of the self, and it glorifies knowledge which is like tickling the g-spot of the literati

>>13337696
Why not? Its just a more powerful being trapping less powerful beings

What if the demiurge is the one that constantly posts rude things on /lit/?

>>13337696

yes

>>13334168
demiurges all the way down

If the demiurge is so smart how can he falsely believe he is god?

Surely he would be too intelligent to make such a mistake?

>>13338687
The demiurge may be self-deluded. His mom tells him what's up after he makes the claim, but he persists in it.

He also has great material intelligence but lacks spiritual insight. That's the sense in which humans are supposed to have one over on him – although he's smart enough to run an entire material cosmos, he still doesn't 'get it' in some other sense, and is perpetually frustrated by this fact.

I reeeaally fucking hate you, /x/. Fuck off.

Is this the Protestant general?

>>13334629

psychadelics are obviously helpful in the sense of nuking your psychophysical self and briefly seeing beyond our normal reality, but we're still trapped here. if we have to take a drug to see the fullness of life, that means that our souls aren't self directed, that means that we're trapped

>>13339916
Psychotropics abound in nature. A life without periodic psychedelic use should not be the baseline assumption, of the 80,000 years or so that humans have been thinking and acting like fully modern men, psychedelic use really only fell out of favor in the last thousand or so years.

>>13334068
>tfw demiurged

Where should start with Gnostics? I have a whole library of this stuff I just don’t know where to start

>>13340130
i also am in need of gnosis, friends ...

>>13340127
Will Jannies please do their job? I don’t want to see that shit on here

>>13340280
At least it isn't females exposing themselves.

>>13340130
>>13340243

Pistis Sophia

>gnosticism
die heretic

Of the First-born king, the neverending one; and upon him all the immortals grew, blessed gods and goddesses and rivers and lovely springs and everything else that had then been born; and he himself became the sole one.

>>13340989
>Of the First-born king, the neverending one; and upon him all the immortals grew, blessed gods and goddesses and rivers and lovely springs and everything else that had then been born; and he himself became the sole one.

I hope you're referring to Christ.

>>13340994
Tom Cruise

>>13340130
Algis Uždavinys - Orpheus and the Roots of Platonism

Thomas Taylor's 'Hymns and Initiations', then his 'Oracles and Mysteries'.

Wisdom Solomon/Book of Wisdom.

Plato's Phaedo, Gorgias, Republic, Theaetetus, Sophist-Statesman, Symposium, Phaedrus, Philebus, Timaeus, Parmenides

Scipio's Dream and Macrobius' commentary.

Dissertations of Maximus of Tyre

Plotinus' Against the Gnostics, then the rest of the Enneads.

Iamblichus' On the Mysteries of the Egyptians, Chaldeans, and Assyrians

The Theology of Arithmetic

Damascius Problems and Solutions Concerning First Principles

Optional:
Carabine - The Unknown God
Augustine's The Confessions
Pseudo-Dionysius Corpus
Schopenhauer - The World as Will and Presentation
Thus Spoke Zarathustra
The Meaning of the Creative Act; The Destiny of Man; The Divine and the Human
The Exegesis of Philip K. Dick (unironically)

oh sorry did you say Gnosticism?, sorry all that's retarded.

>>13340118
even so, substances are still just another crutch buddy, however *illuminating* they are. to transcend the world is to dissolve all attachment, all necessity of consumption; psychedelics are superfluous in this regard, as is everything this universe could possibly proffer. dive into inner silence / stillness instead...

>>13340994
>as I passed along, and observed the objects of your worship, I found also an altar with this inscription: 'TO AN UNKNOWN GOD.' What therefore you worship in ignorance, this I announce to you. The God who made the world and all things in it, he, being Lord of heaven and earth, doesn't dwell in temples made with hands, neither is he served by men's hands, as though he needed anything, seeing he himself gives to all life and breath, and all things. He made from one blood every nation of men to dwell on all the surface of the earth, having determined appointed seasons, and the boundaries of their dwellings, that they should seek the Lord, if perhaps they might reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us. 'For in him we live, and move, and have our being.' As some of your own poets have said, 'For we are also his offspring.'

>They fashioned a tomb for you, holy and high one,
Cretans, always liars, evil beasts, idle bellies.
But you are not dead: you live and abide forever,
For in you we live and move and have our being.

>Let us begin with Zeus, whom we mortals never leave unspoken.
For every street, every market-place is full of Zeus.
Even the sea and the harbour are full of this deity.
Everywhere everyone is indebted to Zeus.
For we are indeed his offspring ...

>>13334151

Its a false copy of a copy of a copy of god. Its god cancer.

Brainlet here
demiurge seems like a shit coping mechanism for cucks with bad lives that don't have the will to do anything about it

I don't recall Bruno discussing the demiurge.

Fuck you, Sophia. Reign in your autistic child already.

Go back to your board. You come here to act offended!

I don't care much for this interpretation of yours. Seems you'll tolerate a lot of inaccuracies in order for it all to ring true. Sloppy. I can't believe I'm saying this, but I much prefer the unicorns. Some industrious sect has been bludgeoning the world with that imagery for a while now. And while I don't appreciate such a perversely intense visual campaign, I agree more with their prognosis than yours.

>>13334068
Stop being gnostics!

>>13334068
Stop being gnostics!

>>13341567
NOOO you can't liberate yourself from the material world! You have to stay here and give shekels to the Pope!!

>>13341584
Yeah, meditate upon the passions of Sophia, the seed of the Proarche, the two pleromata and other absurd genealogies instead.

>>13341526

>>13334320
But then why did jesus have to take the shape of a snake in eden and give us all special awareness to liberate us from the demiurge's prison??

>>13341250
Thanks for the hot take brainlet

>>13342097
love this one, kek

>>13341567
is this another demiurge
i am confused

can someone explain the lion + snake symbolism.
i have vast knowledge of the symbolism of the snake, but why the lion. Because it is master tier bait by the demiurge??

>>13341567
Out of the way old faggot

>>13342249
it's just another theft from the theogonies
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aion_(deity)

>>13342097
Lol.
>>13342257
No.

>>13342249
>but why the lion.
It us the ultimate, crowning form of Ialdabaoth's vainglory, reflecting the hubris of its primal dominion.

>>13334320
>one can admire beauty while knowing that it is subject to decay and knowing that you should not become attached to beautiful things
Beauty is eternal and transcendent, and is not subject to decay - its material manifestations are.

>>13342211
>But then why did jesus have to take the shape of a snake in eden and give us all special awareness to liberate us from the demiurge's prison??
That was Lucifer, not Jesus.

>>13341620

"Gnosticism" is allegorical, there are no genealogies proper in it.

>>13343053
This is hardly the impression you get from reading about it. Even if Gnosticism allegorical character is granted, we should ask if the allegory does indeed bear any analogical relation to that which it describes though types or signs. It seems to me that their descriptions were, or are, not at all reflective of the doctrines they claimed to be explaining, nor reality, and are filled with contradiction and absurdities.

How do Gnostics refute BASED Zhuangzi? I imagine them blustering, stuttering as they listen to Zhuangzi telling them that sages are fucking idiots and that animals have no need of enlightenment and their whole worldview comes crashing down around them. Fuck Gnostics.

>>13343826
Why does everything have to be about refutation?

>>13345101
Refute THIS
*unzips dick*

>>13345101
It's the basis of existence. For example, I refute you and that's why we're not the same.

>>13345294
No it isn’t

How do I get into the obscure memes you lads keep posting?

>>13345373
Did you read the Greeks yet?

>>13345378
Going through them

drumpf reminds me of the demiurge

>>13338692
Take this as a metaphor for people and it's pretty dead on. Plenty of people seem to take too much of the world literally(for it's immediately obvious value/as the physical thing it seems to be). Although they're smort enough to decide they know what they need to and see the same, they leave themselves closed off to many nuances that exist only as metaphor and symbol. Endless frustration do they display when faced with another who does not see their physical and literal reality in quite the same way.

I think the takeaway from this is that worshipping the tangible and the low hanging while ostricizing visionary and abstract thought be the path of madness and delusion.

>>13343042
Arent Lucifer and Jesus just two sides to the same coin, though? They both attempt to enlighten their contemporaries(different methods and ideas, but still). They're both made martyrs for their beliefs and conviction. They both die and are reborn(Jesus literally and Lucifer as the devil/satan)
>they're both referred to as Morning Star
And just like the snake urges the original 2 to eat the fruit, Jesus urges their offspring to to appreciate the grace of divinity; to eat the divine fruit.

>>13345657
>Arent Lucifer and Jesus just two sides to the same coin, though?
No; Lucifer, and Jesus, are two mutually distinct entities, and individuals.

>they're both referred to as Morning Star
That title originally referred to Lucifer/Quetzalcoatl, and only later began to be interchangeably used to refer in praise to JesusChrist.

>They both die and are reborn(Jesus literally and Lucifer as the devil/satan)
Lucifer, and Satan, are two mutually distinct entities, and individuals - the former is an angel, the latter is a demon. Lucifer caused to free consciousness within humans after it had been suppressed by Satan/YHWH/Jupiter. The mutual conflation of their ontologies is a judeoChristian perversion.

>>13342097
who's the dude with snake legs

>>13336078
>for something to be truly beautiful it would have to be imperishable
Source?
Beauty exists because ugliness exists. Something can't "bloom" if it doesn't "decay". An imperishable, never-changing thing is neither beautiful nor ugly, it just is.

>>13346098
Abraxas

>>13345657
>>13346088
>by Satan/YHWH/Jupiter.
I was thinking about something else when I wrote this; I meant:
>by Ialdabaoth.

bros should I read the Corpus?

>>13342097
Can someone tell me where the quotes are from?
I googled them to no avail but the second one which is from Pistis Sophia

>>13346088
>doesn't know about typology
I expected more from such a schizo desu.

>>13346088
>"judeochristian"
Hello, buzzfeed.

>>13341026
theres no way you read all of that

>>13347556
Ofc he didn't, nobody reads here.

>>13334125
Suffering is a fulcral part of our existence. We are will-based. We cannot conceive of ourselves as agents whose totality of desires has been fulfilled - it's the earning to fulfill some need or want to moves us in one direction or another and without that earning we'd be like the rocks and the clouds, not even like trees or flowers since even those move towards light and water on their own accord.

>>13347725
Exactly. Without this suffering we would be enlightened, and we aren't, hence the demiurge.

>>13347926
>*hence original sin
ftfy

>>13346229
Cute drawing

>>13334125
God is completely good, suffering is caused by evil.
It's pretty simple.

>>13347518
>doesn't know about typology
Typology is irrelevant in this context. Ontology determines typology; typology is contingent to ontology.

>Good things are bad because they’re not perfect and I have to work for them wtf