/lit/ - Literature

>>13319594
I think it is the same old antisemitic propaganda repackaged into a supposedly objective "evolutionary" analysis. There's nothing evolutionary about Jews supporting left wing causes. In fact if you look at Israel it is the most violent, racist, imperialist, right-wing ethnostate in modern times. It's just that when people are minorities in a country they end up supporting the left since the left are the only ones who care about minority rights.

It's been refuted
https://www.docdroid.net/wSluAFg/cofnas2018-article-judaismasagroupevolutionarystr.pdf

>>13319632
>Jews are majority of Neocons(all of them ex-trotskists that saw the light of christ, allegedly), therefore jews aren't championing only liberal movements, thus McDonald is wrong.

>>13319655
oh my god shut up nobody cares

>>13319661
Then why bother linking an article written by jewish academic about how gentile academic got it all wrong?

>>13319629
not unreasonable to imagine there's significant overlap between jews who are predisposed towards nationalism and jews who choose to move to Israel.

>>13319671
I'm not that person, schizo

Race is a spook

>muh anti semitism
like a man that learns the workings of women and comes to generally dislike them, the same happens when a person learns about judaism and jewish culture
after all, judaism is a matriarchal culture

>>13319680
Then what was the purpose of you replying to my OG post? I was commenting on the article linked.

>>13319655
That implying that neocons and republicans at large are conservatives

>>13319713
Well they are part of the "conservative" label which the author quotes as one of the evidences that McDonald is incorrect.

>>13319594
Claude, I thought you died man :D

>>13319718
Well that author can think what he wants, doesn't change that he's wrong

>>13319594
Jews can barely keep their own country going, and that's while being surrounded by unpopular and weak enemies while also being butt buddies with the strongest and richest country in the world.
There's a reason why you see so many jews as public faces of movements, it is a simple trick to let the movement smear all criticism against them as antisemitism: jews are of course too socially retarded to realize they're being used as the proverbial black friend, so they go along happily until they outlive their usefulness.
Why do you think the jews were kicked out of hundreds of countries? It's because they're gullibe, easy to take advantage of, and too dumb to learn from past experiences.

Only used by /pol/scum to defend their ideology. Not taken seriously elsewhere

>>13319594
required reading. Literally undisputed truth

>>13319776
Because of xenophobia. They aren't the only minority group to ever be prosecuted you know

>>13319632
The cofnas critique has been BTFO by multiple people. https://www.bitchute.com/video/orW0qC0XyY8/

>>13319687
because he's here as a ((distraction)). Notice he's projecting his jewish schizo on you

>>13319776
This is an ice cold take and factually incorrect. Who is "using" the jew? Because if it's us then why are we never benefiting from it yet they get every political and social change they want? Really makes you think. One jewish tactic of debate is to just dumbfound the enemy with blatant lies and outrageous statements. Jews always project their own neuroticism onto the goy. That's literally where all the "white supremacist" propaganda comes from. Jews themselves have privilege and consider themselves a master race so they assume whites do as well.

>>13319786
because "elsewhere" is literally run by jews. The media, academia, finance, government, where else is "elsewhere"?

>>13319632
>>13319786
Not much of a "refutation" here, really. But given the fact, that you've been repeating your little mantra in every thread this book is being mentioned, it's not unreasonable to assume that the mere fact CoC exists represents a huge burden to your existence.

>>13319830
Are you Mike Enoch? Not an insult. You're right. Just curious.

>>13319629
Jews are the scum of the earth. Israels brutality is just an example of what any Jew would do when there aren't any bounds or restrictions. They see gentiles as animals. The only good jew is a dead Jew

>>13319792
>They aren't the only minority group to ever be prosecuted you know
They're the only one that falls for the same exact trick hundreds of times in a row.
There are africans with pointy sticks who managed to defend themselves better, for Chist's sake.

>>13319830
>Who is "using" the jew?
Any sufficiently sociopath leader, so most of them.
>Because if it's us then why are we never benefiting from it
You couldn't manipulate a child with your shitty "no u" posts, of course it's not you.
>yet they get every political and social change they want?
Really, now the jews want more muslims in power? Those same muslims that hate jews so much more and so much more openly than your average christian?
Same deal with the social justice crap, jews are trivially easy to relabel as "rich white males" once they're no longer welcome and those groups are strongly anti-Israel already.

>>13319964
Nah, I actually like ranch dressing unlike moike.

>>13320021
>Any sufficiently sociopath leader, so most of them.
Name ONE. Jews disproportionately benefit from every country they parasite from.
> You couldn't manipulate a child with your shitty "no u" posts, of course it's not you.
wow what a great reply to deflect the question
>the jews want more muslims in power?
In the west yeah. It provides multiple benefits for them such as subversion of the west, and a cover for normies to hate. Jews MO is to play both sides of the argument and give the goy safe options. You can vote for a liberal that will enact the zionist agenda or a conservative (neocon) that will enact the zionist agenda. The kosher sandwich

In general, you're shilling or just straight up blind to any reality. If you had an actual refute of CoC then you'd be promoted all over the intellectual news. They are desperate for it and you'd be held up as a genius. But the jew knows they are lying and have double standards so they don't engage. Notice you'll never engage with the points. The goyim are waking up and the jews are getting very uncomfortable

>>13319594
I think it is both useful and useless depending on how you use the information. If you use the information to enhance the sociopolitical structure to better support your interests and keep the interests of others in check, that makes it useful. If you use it to inform your entire view of a loosely-defined group of people and go on a mad witch hunt, that's useless and you've spooked the shit out of yourself.

>>13320062
>Name ONE.
Hillary Clinton ( ͡° ل͜ ͡°)

>>13320021
In what level of retardation and denial do you have to be to believe this?

>>13319594
Another antisemitic book which nobody would've ever heard of if the retarded philo-Semitic elites didn't ban it.

Kind of ironic.

>>13320093
Israel benefited more from HRC than the reverse. She's full on with the Clean Break strategy and global war to benefit the jews

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/clinton-in-newly-revealed-classified-emails-discussed-secret-comms-channel-with-israel

>>13319686
Men don't learn the workings of women. They just learn enough to keep women happy, because that benefits them.

>after all, judaism is a matriarchal culture
Which is not ideal, but better than being a chauvinist cretin, like Catholics. Even the Greeks, who idolized the male form more than any other culture, recognized female divinities.

>>13320110
everything jews don't like is antisemitic. At this point it's almost synonymous with "truth"

>>13320135
>but better than being a chauvinist cretin
w e w. Your estrogen is showing

>>13319629
The thesis isn't that Jews support left wing causes. Its that Jews engage in cause and critiques that serve their group interests against that of the outgroup. This book in his trilogy focuses on the Western world in the 20th century so the focus is on the left wing movements lead by Jews, but that doesn't mean its the on;y one. He said in a new addition he might add a chapter on the neoconservatives which he didn't include in the book because it was published in the 90's before their influence became prevalent. And their an example of what he is talking about.

>>13319812
You're literally gaslighting somebody, you fuck

>>13320190
this. But nobody will address the real arguments

>>13320151
>don't hate women with a passion
>"Your estrogen is showing"
Is it now, Catholic boy?

>muh jews
Don’t you virgins have other things you can blame your lack of sex on?

Is being pro-Jews the ultimate right wing redpill? You can't defend Jews are the masters of the world but at the same time want to purge them. If you're right wing you defend the "natural" structure of power, don't you?

>>13320234
Nothing I said implies I hate women, but your language betrays you by admitting your hatred for me. fag

Anti-Semites are like Flat Earthers in that they’re impossible to argue against. Any attempt to challenge them will be ultimately met with cries of ‘shill!’ or, ‘that’s what they want you to believe!’ There’s literally no point engaging with people that argue so dishonestly (ironically, a tactic they themselves finger as Jewish). The entire anti-Semitic movement is lazy racism for people looking for a scapegoat.

>>13320256
>Nothing I said implies I hate women
I beg to differ, but whatever you say. The potential encouragement of it from the original post had to be addressed. Likewise with this book.

>>13320280
>>13320248
>>13319632
>>13319786
calm down, shlomo.

>>13320293
if you think CoC encourages hatred of women then you are deep into the mind poison of feminism to the point of illness

>>13320353
Not hatred of women, but hatred of Jews, and a very Catholic kind of hatred to boot, given that MacDonald is one.

>>13320374
le ebin. instead of refuting what macdonald says just try and badly psychoanalyses. a very jewish type of hatred from you

>>13320374
why is a historical account of jewish history hatred?

>>13320399
>historical account
It is beyond that, and you know it.

>>13320426
its good sources and academic

>>13320426
no. i dont. back your claim up. its better cited and more neutral than cofnas

>>13320433
It certainly has good information on Jews in it. But I don't trust MacDonald, and I think he helps build a narrative against Jews more than a narrative that supports a structure that enhances life for all.

>>13320450
fair enough , but writers cant help themselves , its your duty to digest it or not to consume it in he first place

>>13320450
And i dont trust jews so we are even? Sad fact is as long as jews are subverting the west we cant enhance life in any meaningful way

>>13320426
Accurately documenting bad things Jews do throughout history and today is a bad thing?

>>13320473
>Sad fact is as long as jews are subverting the west we cant enhance life in any meaningful way
Nor can we for very long if we completely do away with them. They are kind of like women in that sense. They're vital to civilization at this point.

>>13319786
Not an argument.

>>13320318
Case in point.

>>13320490
>They are kind of like women in that sense.
Agreed. They are an incredibly feminine force of entropic deconstruction.

>Nor can we for very long if we completely do away with them.
>They're vital to civilization at this point.
Strongly disagree. They provide very little value in relation to the absolute destruction they cause to world order. The most peaceful solution is to separate entirely. They can israel and build their fourth temple for all I care if they would stay out of the west. But they can't do that, they want everything as they larp as lucifarian self-gods. If they don't want to separate, we must find a more final solution.

>>13320490
all we see from there politics is war and chaos , at least pressure them into not having that much influence , they are not vital and we dont need them

>>13320515
>They are an incredibly feminine force of entropic deconstruction.
There is no life where there is no entropy. Living means dying.

>They provide very little value in relation to the absolute destruction they cause to world order.
They only cause this grand scale destruction when the other side — the non-Semites, "pagans" and such — gives in to their Dionysian spirit too recklessly and start to lose control. Without the Semites, the other side would also destroy the world order eventually, turning it into a hedonistic wasteland that is no longer concerned with intellectual growth (i.e. scientific and technological growth).

>The most peaceful solution is to separate entirely.
You don't separate a limb when you break a bone. Right now, the world order has just broken some bones, and we need to work on letting them heal.

>>13320558
Is the gist of your argument for the jews basically just radical centrism? yin/yang? Doesn't that admit your own position's defeat by admitting that jews are in fact a negative force? CoC documents this. We've come full circle in your talmudic rhetoric so you no longer defend their actions, but the metaphysical necessity for evil. I'll agree on one point, they are the synagogue of Satan and the strongest proof to me that God is real. If there is a force this evil, I hope there is one equally as good.

>They only cause this grand scale destruction when the other side — the non-Semites, "pagans" and such — gives in to their Dionysian spirit too recklessly and start to lose control.
"It's your fault we subvert you because you don't let us do what we want goy" The Jew Cries out as he strikes you. Typical inversion of blame. A jew will likewise blame the drug addict rather than dealer. Coincidentally jews just happen to be frequent drug dealers throughout history...
>Without the Semites, the other side would also destroy the world order eventually, turning it into a hedonistic wasteland that is no longer concerned with intellectual growth (i.e. scientific and technological growth).
Now you're just saying shit to try and starstruck me with bold face lies. Jewish intellectuals have time and time again been proven hacks and subversive frauds. Jewish intellectual movements are notoriously degenerate at best and genocidal on average. Jews don't go into STEM, they go into law and finance. Shit we had on lock before they came and brought the talmud into play in the west. What a joke when to say it's the goy that will turn hedonistic when it's the jew that pushes that alongside nihlistic destruction.


>You don't separate a limb when you break a bone
Jews are not the bone in your body, they are the parasite ravaging our health.
> Right now, the world order has just broken some bones, and we need to work on letting them heal.
100% fuck the world order oligarchs. It's breaking because it's lucifarian transhuminist ideology intent on cleansing the world of independent thinkers. The only goy left will be for jewish slaves like it says in their scripture. The world is a vibrant hellscape intent on the destruction of gentiles.

Are you of jewish genes or religion? What your race and where do you live? Your MO sounds like either to protect the jews or some sort of centrist Styxx Gnosticism

>>13320661
>Is the gist of your argument for the jews basically just radical centrism? yin/yang?
Not exactly. Centrism is complacency, and I'm not interested in complacency. I'm interested in the evolution of the spirit, which is quite complex now, and requires many ingredients to continue growing.

>Doesn't that admit your own position's defeat by admitting that jews are in fact a negative force?
No. Yin and yang are two sides of the same coin. You can't remove only one side of a coin without dispatching of the coin altogether. Evil is vital for the good. The enhancement of evil enhances the good and vice versa. Evil is also intelligent — so guess what that makes the good.

>"It's your fault we subvert you because you don't let us do what we want goy" The Jew Cries out as he strikes you. Typical inversion of blame.
It's a joint blame that I'm giving. Women are terrible at running households and ruin them if given the reins for very long, because they are weak, so they suck at controlling anything remotely complex like a colony of any size. But we are also at fault if we give them the reins for very long. “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil [or chaos] is for good men [i.e. the strong] to do nothing.”

>Jews don't go into STEM, they go into law and finance.
And they're very good at these things. Civilization needs these things to keep growing. We wouldn't have escaped the stone age without them. If you think we should go back to the stone age, then you're far more subversive and destructive to civilization than Jews can be.

>Jews are not the bone in your body, they are the parasite ravaging our health.
Case in point about me not trusting MacDonald's work very much. It appears to serve ideologues such as yourself who are incapable of seeing their utility. You narrow them down to a fine point but only so that you can eliminate them, not so that you can utilize them better.

>The world is a vibrant hellscape intent on the destruction of gentiles.
No, just the destruction of the weak. This isn't exclusive to civilization either. Millions, probably more, of species have gone extinct since life began on the planet. It is because they were weak. Life is war.

>Are you of jewish genes or religion? What your race and where do you live?
Neither. I'm white and live in the US. Very nice ad hominem, by the way.

>>13320821
I fundamentally reject your framing that jews are necessary. You say that their actions are necessary for balance, how about the chinese, they can fill that roll. You've arbitrarily selected the two sides of the coin when there are more options. Jews are a net negative and not "one half of a coin".


>“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil [or chaos] is for good men [i.e. the strong] to do nothing.”
Right, that's why I want to rid the west of the SYNAGOGUE OF SATAN. Seems like a no brainier. Why should I want to live with and "utilize" demons?

>And they're very good at these things. Civilization needs these things to keep growing. We wouldn't have escaped the stone age without them.
This is incorrect and a false believe due to survivorship bias and retroactive justification. There is no proof that technology wouldn't have been the same or even better. We can't even begin to prove any of this, but I'll point out right now finance is destroying the West in exchange for cheap consumer goods. Is that your "progress"?
>If you think we should go back to the stone age, then you're far more subversive and destructive to civilization than Jews can be.
Strawman. And a bad one at that.

> It appears to serve ideologues such as yourself
"Culture of Critique is correct correct but I don't like that you act on it in a different way than me" We have here moved past all critiques of the book since I haven't seen a single refutation of any arguments brought forth in CoC.
>incapable of seeing their utility... not so that you can utilize them better.
WHY AM I FORCED TO USE THEM OR BE NEAR THEM. Is it a moral thing? Do they have a right to be around me and in western society? Why are we not allowed to be in a society of OUR people? I don't want to use jews or be near them. They are not kin. White flight shows whites desire to be with one an other and not in this diversity soup. But ((lawmakers)) make any sort of self segregation illegal.

> This isn't exclusive to civilization either. Millions, probably more, of species have gone extinct since life began on the planet
So are you just nihilist? An accelerationist? Eugenicist? I can tell you one thing that you don't have, children. No healthy person is fine with the destruction of society if they have kids. So we've gone from Jews are good to jews are evil but necessary, to "yes jews will destroy civilization, but that's the nature of reality. It's inevitable goy"

> I'm white and live in the US. Very nice ad hominem, by the way.
> I'm interested in the evolution of the spirit
Then I was right with "some sort of centrist Styxx Gnosticism"
Race and environment have impacts on motivation and though. Who would have guessed.

>>13319744
>>13319713
It should however make you questions how honest and good faith the neoconservatives are. If their only consistent objective is Israeli supremacy in the Middle-East, what about their politics actually changed, the guiding principles or the strategy?

>>13320021
>Any sufficiently sociopath leader, so most of them.
Like Trump, Putin, Bolsenaro or Modhi? None of these are anti-jewish. Who are you actually talking about?

>You couldn't manipulate a child with your shitty "no u" posts, of course it's not you.
You knows he meant the US military, state and state-corporate complex (like Lockheedmartin) is what he meant, that is what everyone means by "us" in this context. None of them benefit. The US military-industrial complex now has high infantry cost and low profit compared to what simpler US military hegemonic wars would yield, none of our corporations got the oil they were promised from the Iraq war and we are stuck with mass immigration that increase the taxes and further votes for far left candidates who all support taxing these corporations.

>>13320021
>Really, now the jews want more muslims in power? Those same muslims that hate jews so much more and so much more openly than your average christian?
Yes, they do. Look at Sadiq Khan, he has a ton of jewish support. Jews simply hate whites that much more.
>Same deal with the social justice crap, jews are trivially easy to relabel as "rich white males" once they're no longer welcome and those groups are strongly anti-Israel already.
This is some of their politics back firing temporarily, but jews are still vastly over-represented at the elite unviersities with respect to their academic achievements, and it is increasing. So far this "social justice crap" has yet to actually bite them in the ass.

>>13320110
Makes you kinda wonder why they banned the book. Nah, I guess there's no reason, right? It's just spreading harmful, dangerous opinions that are completely unsubstantiated, right?

>>13320941
>You say that their actions are necessary for balance, how about the chinese, they can fill that roll.
I'm not so sure about that. The Chinese are even more removed from White European culture than the Jews are, especially at this point, considering the Jews have been here for a long time and many have racially mixed with White Europeans. And given their products, the Chinese don't seem very intelligent, and seem way more culturally bug-like than liberal shills in the West are.

>You've arbitrarily selected the two sides of the coin when there are more options.
It wasn't an arbitrary selection because the Jews have lived with us for a long time. The Chinese haven't.

>Jews are a net negative and not "one half of a coin".
No, they are not. This is speech from an ideologue that doesn't hold up to reality. There are many Jews in positions that help the system thrive. The system was built on Jewish influences (Christianity being one of them). Concepts like good and evil can even be traced back to ancient Semites. Civilization has owed a lot to them and to the language they have introduced to the world.

>Right, that's why I want to rid the west of the SYNAGOGUE OF SATAN.
Batshit crazy tier nonsense. Synagogue of Satan? Get real and leave this crap out of serious conversation.

>There is no proof that technology wouldn't have been the same or even better. We can't even begin to prove any of this, but I'll point out right now finance is destroying the West in exchange for cheap consumer goods.
We certainly could if we were seriously interested in proving it. We have enough historical records and accounts to be able to trace where and how they influenced our civilization. Most of their influence has been linguistic, unsurprisingly. The issue you point out is also, once again, not solely the fault of the Jews, but the joint fault of everyone involved.

>Strawman. And a bad one at that.
That's not a strawman, because I didn't accuse you of thinking that way. Keyword is "if".

>We have here moved past all critiques of the book since I haven't seen a single refutation of any arguments brought forth in CoC.
Correct. I'm more concerned with the author's intentions behind the book and what readers have taken away from it, which to me, indicates what some of those intentions were. While there is some useful information in there, the book and its author as an authority on the matter should be taken with a grain of salt.

>WHY AM I FORCED TO USE THEM OR BE NEAR THEM
Because this is a complex civilization we're living in. In order to achieve greater heights, it requires the cooperation of different kinds of people in order to function. Specializations were required to get to where we are today, culturally, scientifically, and technologically speaking. Every specialization narrows the perspectives of the slaves who are specialized, but it allows the masters to grow stronger, so the masters have seen it desirable to further specialization.

1/2

>>13321422
2/2

>Do they have a right to be around me and in western society?
As long as they fulfill their role well, yes. Jews aren't usually lazy, they are hard working, and usually finicky tightwads, but that can be a very good thing in certain situations such as when negotiating with other nations or specialized faculties.

> Why are we not allowed to be in a society of OUR people?
Because that is a privilege and not a right. The aristocracy requires law enforcers in order to prevent the rabble from overthrowing them. You must be strong enough to obtain and maintain it. As it stands, you are certainly able to network and form a community, but if that community is designed to overthrow the government, well, be prepared for a fight.

>So we've gone from Jews are good to jews are evil but necessary, to "yes jews will destroy civilization, but that's the nature of reality. It's inevitable goy"
Think of them like QA testers in software. They exist to find and exploit bugs so that the developers can refine their code and fix said bugs. Their destructive nature is beneficial to our creative nature. However, if you simply fix all the bugs and then remove the testers from the company, who will pressure test further creations for you? Will you just stop creating? Can you really do that, being that it is your nature to create, just like it is their nature to destroy? And if you can stop — why don't you hold them to the same standard?

>Race and environment have impacts on motivation and though. Who would have guessed.
Right, and the combination of races living in the Mediterranean and Europe for millennia has made our civilization extremely complex, and now, we live in one so complex that it is impossible for almost anyone to fully understand the whole picture and properly assess it so that multiple specializations can thrive and continue benefiting the aristocracy. There is basically no aristocracy today as a result. That will change soon, but it will not be Jewish, because they aren't bred for it. That is not to downplay their talents, but to give them justice proper. It's equally unjust to try and put someone who is not bred for leadership into the position of leader as it is to put someone who is not bred for servitude into the position of a servant.

>>13321422
>>13321450
Do you do not have an rebuts to any points in Culture of Critique?
>Correct. I'm more concerned with the author's intentions behind the book and what readers have taken away from it,

Ok, so CoC is all factually correct, and your world personal worldview is btfo. I don't care what you have to say, there is no amount of evidence anyone could give to get your eyes open. You have not refuted a single point I have made with anything other than your personal opinion of how the world should work. You assert all these moral claims about how one should be acting towards getting new info and moral claims about how the world should work. Based on NOTHING. We have no common values or common ground and you are just waiting my time deliberately. Sadly, you will assume your arguments we're solid when in reality it's the same old talmudic tactic of wearing out the enemy with meaningless rhetoric. Hopefully others can see through you as well. See you on the battlefield crypto jew.

>>13320190
>Its that Jews engage in cause and critiques that serve their group interests against that of the outgroup
Is this shocking to anyone? A big part of Judaism is family/tribe focus. I don't think they've been trying to hide it

>>13321618
They don't hide it between themselves, but it's antisemetic for gentiles to bring it up and can never be discussed in media, politics, or elsewhere. Just admitting they are a group with group interests is groundbreaking in public discourse and enough to be labeled a nazi

>>13321606
>Ok, so CoC is all factually correct
Not arguing that it isn't. The book doesn't suggest doing what you're suggesting we do though.

>>13321606
>See you on the battlefield crypto jew.
t. manchild larper
Don't worry anon, I'm sure the epic and glorious battle for the purity and goodness of the white race will come any day now. You'll be a hero!

>>13321723
wow you just got him, believing in shit is gay. I'd rather stay here and masturbate to avengers with you

>>13321666
I've suggested nothing that you are implying I have. Nor have you provided any value in this thread.

>>13321723
You're in this shithole of a website encompassed in a hellscape of a world too. Be thankful there are people trying to make it better while you jerk off to your own enlightened ego.

>>13321843
>>13321867
faggot larpers, go make some more deus vult memes

>>13321888
haha! You got them! Based xD those dumb fucking white christians. not like us atheists, so epic

>>13321867
>I've suggested nothing that you are implying I have.
Don't play dumb. You said outright here >>13320515 the peaceful solution is to "separate entirely" and if they don't cooperate, "we must find a more final solution." The book doesn't suggest any particular course of action.

>>13321927
I don't follow your criticism. What is your point? (rhetorical q)

>>13321960
My point is that the factual / scientific parts of the book do not support any particular course of action because science is not concerned with action, only discerning data. The rest is philosophy and politics, neither of which I trust MacDonald with handling.

>>13321618
>Don't think they've been trying to hide it
>book that mentions it gets banned from Amazon

Think this through a little more

>>13322022
You don't trust macdonald to suggest things but you say the book doesn't suggest anything . Well looks like the problem was solved before you ever complained about it. Glad I could illuminate that for you.

>>13320509
and the rest of the thread doesn't matter? In other responses specific claims are argued against with specific points. For example, which dictator or authoritarian is using the jews as a scapegoat? And how is it relevant to The Culture of Critique? Pointing some leader in the Middle East certainly doesn't demonstrate anything. You are just approaching this with thought terminating cliches

I think we can safely answer OP's question. The general consensus is Culture of Critique is accurate in it's facts but there are people (many of which jewish themselves) which struggle with what the facts might imply as a solution to the jewish question.

>>13319594
People are reading it

>>13319629
But there’s a common thread between right wing Zionist Jewery and left wing anti-west Jewery. That’s seeking to destabilize their environment while taking control of as many resources and arms of influence as possible. Israel’s existence is a constant destabilizing force in the Middle East and the left wing intelligentsia of the West (who are disproportionately Jewish) seek, with great rancor, to deconstruct and demean every social construct that the western world, old world Europe and Near East has painstaking built over the last millennium. Speak to any Jew and you will begin to sense the disdain for all classical forms of art, culture, literature etc as archaic, barbaric and oppressive forms of expression designed to marginalize and demean minorities. While some pieces might be true to this description, their scrutiny is hardly contained to the most blatant transgressions. I can’t even begin to assign a number of instances of this in the publications that I’ve come across. And almost every time after reading these social commentaries, I find myself scrolling up to the author’s name and find a “Greenblatt” or a “Loeb” or a “Steiner.” I feel like half of them are named “Ruth”... it’s almost comically consistent. As a person of middle eastern descent, I am both horrified and amazed at White Europeans obliviousness to this very prolific trend in social commentary. I have no skin in your game but I can see you absorbing this cancer without protest and attacking the reactionary anti-bodies with reckless abandon like reprogrammed T-cells consuming their own host tissue. Baffling.

>>13322077
I said the book doesn't suggest anything. MacDonald suggests a whole lot in other places, for example, on his website.

>>13322140
So? What's your solution and why is it better? This is fruitless because we have way different moralities. I think you have the right of association. You do not.

>>13320254
Based. Even the Japanese could see this.
https://www.jpost.com/Israel/Emperor-Akihito-to-honor-Hebrew-U-prof-for-Japan-studies
>Shillony then spoke about a group of Japanese dignitaries who had visited the Hebrew University and brought with them The Protocols of the Elders of Zion as a gift, believing that the book was actually a compliment to the Jewish people and their alleged global power.

>>13322132
I think you need to take a break from the internet sweaty :)

>>13320254
Jew's only have power due to immoral subversion. You can look up to that if you want, but it's similar to teenagers looking up to Lucifer because "woah what a badass this will show my step dad how tough I am"

>>13322161
So the problem is that people are unhappy, right? That is the root of all of this, from what I can tell. They feel depressed, they feel like their lives aren't in their control, and they feel like there is no justice. This is the start. Over time, it changes: they don't just feel depressed, they feel downtrodden; they don't just feel like they aren't in control, they feel like they're being manipulated; and they don't just feel like there isn't any justice, they feel like there is explicit injustice being done to them. But the latter emotions come from frustration out of the former ones, when efforts are made to remedy them and nothing sticks. When our efforts don't fix our problems, they feel meaningless, and then we feel meaningless, and then we get desperate and our mind wanders. So, we start to blame others for our problems, and we go from upset to resentful.

We owe our unhappiness from the last 60 years to the same thing we owe our successes from the last 60 years: democracy (and I'm talking about the US only). Democracy is a double-edged sword. On the one hand, all of the pent up energy gets released, and the culture experiments in all directions, and a huge amount of data is produced in the process. Data is good, it lets us analyze and build better things from it over time. Release is also good when energy is tightly packed, because otherwise, it creates mental illness. On the other hand, everyone gets exposed to everyone else, and in letting everyone get exposed, you run the risk of creating a huge amount of jealousy in the nation. Those who have less energy can't compete, and eventually the resources collect towards the ones who have more. This also creates mental illness. I've not yet seen an example of a real civilization that did not eventually churn out mental illness patients somewhere within it.

The solution is to get rid of democracy. It has run its course. There's no longer all this pent up energy that needs to be released. People are drained, and now they need to build up again. The only people who are a problem to us are the democrats now. They are the ones who need to learn that democracy is no longer effective, and that new policies must be put into place, at least for some time. On top of this, we need to get rid of tenure in schools. This is causing educational problems in the country and is highly unnecessary.

>>13322176
Take your pills, mom.

>>13322820
>So the problem is that people are unhappy, right?
More of a symptom than the problem.
>they feel...
Seems like a list of projections and ((psychological)) analysis of enemies of jews. Take a look at The Authoritarian Personality. Standard MO is to pathologize gentile behaviors.
>So, we start to blame others for our problems,
Is there a scenario where blame can ever be applied legitimately in your view? Or is every time you ascribe blame is it scapegoating? Or is it just when it's applied to jews? Can a jew ever do anything wrong? None of the leading thinkers claim its 100% jews, but I'll tell you in my experience most of the serious problems these days have heavy jewish influence.

>We owe our unhappiness from the last 60 years to the same thing we owe our successes from the last 60 years: democracy
I don't disagree that's a major part. But who runs the democracy and why did they enact it in the first place. Democracy is the same old ancient oligarchical rule but disguised so we don't know who actually rules us. I can't help but notice the fall of many civilizations comes after jewish influence invades them.

>The solution is to get rid of democracy.
You finally say something interesting. Though as you can imagine, I want jews far away from any future western society.
>we need to get rid of tenure in schools
We need to dismantle the entire higher ed system. Moldbug had it right when he explains it as The Cathedral. Nothing but part of the consensus manufacturing.

>>13322910
Your obsession with Jews betrays where you are personally insecure, which I figure is either financially, or verbally / mathematically perhaps.

The broader and more accurate opponent right now is the elitist democrats who have a death grip on the nation and refuse to acknowledge that the nation has changed drastically over the last 60 years and now requires a different form of politics to run. Democrats come in many different races. We shouldn't do away with racial profiling because it helps us micromanage the situation, but we shouldn't overlook the forest for the trees, which you are doing when you harp on the Jews specifically. Forests (ideologies) can be made up of different types of trees (races).

>>13323008
>Forests (ideologies) can be made up of different types of trees (races)
Are you saying that "Jew" is a race?

>>13323008
>Your obsession with Jews betrays where you are personally insecure,
"I hate spiders so I must actually love to fuck spiders." Like I asked before, can a jew ever be at fault for anything?

A) "There's a big hole in the boat, we need to fix it"
B) "Why are you so obsessed with that one hole? There are lots of hairline fractures all over the boat anyway"

Like it or not, but JQ is probably the most pressing issue of the modern day. If we fixed that one issue would the world get perfect? Of course not, But it would get better.

>mathematically
we already agreed jews don't do STEM

>The broader and more accurate opponent right now is the elitist democrats
If by democrats you mean those who promote democracy while ruling as international oligarchy, then agreed. Spoilers, per capita they are largely jewish. If by democrats you mean the political party, then I don't know what to tell you.

The groups of elites you're discussing are the same ones I'm against. I just noticed that most happen to be of a certain tribe.

>>13323057
Jew is a religion and a phenotype, let's not regress into basic race realism now.

>>13323057
I'm talking about the Jews as a race. The Semitic people.

>>13323069
>Like I asked before, can a jew ever be at fault for anything?
Of course. They just aren't at fault for EVERYTHING, like is being suggested. Just because I am not accusing them of everything doesn't mean I defend them on everything.

>Like it or not, but JQ is probably the most pressing issue of the modern day.
It's not and if we go in that direction we're setting ourselves up to repeat the mistakes of our ancestors. This is a highly anti-forefathers thing to say, by the way. The Bill of Rights is a highly metaphysical document that protects a certain ideology rather than any certain race. It was designed to prevent corruption of an ideological sort. If you are not addressing the nation's problems from a purely metaphysical standpoint then you are ripping the very foundation away from it.

>If we fixed that one issue would the world get perfect? Of course not, But it would get better.
This is uncertain and unfounded, considering the root problem is ideologically based.

>If by democrats you mean those who promote democracy while ruling as international oligarchy, then agreed. Spoilers, per capita they are largely jewish.
That is what I mean. These are individuals who no longer serve the nation; once upon a time, democrats did serve the nation, and it is why the nation accepted democracy. It doesn't matter that they are "largely Jewish" because they are "more largely democrat" making Jews the lesser concern.

>>13323127
>The Semitic people.
So, you are excluding Jews that are non-Semitic? Why should they be excluded from this discussion?

>>13323151
>Why should they be excluded from this discussion?
Because they're irrelevant to it and the thread is about The Culture of Critique.

>>13323154
>the thread is about The Culture of Critique
Have you not read it? MacDonald covers crypsis. My question centers on crypsis, of which you were making use, so they are entirely relevant. If we cannot agree on definitions then we can not have an honest discussion.

>>13323177
>If we cannot agree on definitions then we can not have an honest discussion.
Okay, so what's your definition of Jews then, if there is nothing genetic about them? Can you also explain why those individuals I was talking about are also largely Jewish if there is nothing genetic bonding them as a group?

>>13323177
>>13323191
Also, I've given the book a skim. If I make a mistake, correct me on it.

I'm asking those questions because it doesn't add up to me now. If there is nothing genetic about Jews, how is there anything related to evolution regarding them?

>>13323191
>Okay, so what's your definition of Jews then, if there is nothing genetic about them?
Since the Diaspora, "Jews" are largely multiracial. I am not sure the term "Jew" even gets us to the proper point of discussion. Regardless, we need to be sure we are all on the same page with regard to race, religion, or ethnicity. I will say that painting them as a race makes claims of racism against them easy, but if they are composed of many races this claim is hollow. We could be accused of considering them as "other", which would be an ironic reflection of the condition "goyim" of which they make use.
>Can you also explain why those individuals I was talking about are also largely Jewish if there is nothing genetic bonding them as a group?
This is for them to explain which, to my knowledge, they never publicly have. They are multiracial, so they are not a race. There are atheistic Jews, so it is not a religion. They have variegated ethnicities, but I would say that this is probably the strongest tie that they have continuous across the population group.

>>13323246
If they are not a race then there is no valid way to pin them for sharing behavioral traits that are incompatible with White European traits, as far as I can see.

>>13323234
>how is there anything related to evolution regarding them?
If I were pressed to defend the position then I would state that the evolutionary biology that is pertinent to the topic may be present in one racial aspect of the group and that this racial component may have political sway over the rest of the multi-racial body. I am not sold on the ontological argument, though I do not find its failure either. The fact that discussing the topic is taboo is disturbing to me. If this were any other race then we would be able to develop taxonomy for all the different aspects with free discussion of in-group and out-group perspectives as we do with other groups.
>>13323261
My hypothesis regarding this can be found in my response to the other anon.

>>13323284
>If I were pressed to defend the position then I would state that the evolutionary biology that is pertinent to the topic may be present in one racial aspect of the group and that this racial component may have political sway over the rest of the multi-racial body.
Then this racial component is what I was referring to before when I said Jews and distinguished them as a race rather than an ideology. My arguments from before still stand in application to this group.

>The fact that discussing the topic is taboo is disturbing to me.
I don't disagree. There is that ordeal with John Cusack right now putting this fact out there blind as day. However, because I consider metaphysical problems much deeper than racial ones, I consider metaphysical solutions stronger. Action can't be metaphysical, it has to be practical, but it should be founded on a metaphysics.

>>13323306
>Then this racial component is what I was referring
Make sure you keep this in mind or someone will pull a Socratic fast one on you. That is all I am really trying to impart. As a sidebar, Israel Shamir does an excellent job in Pardes distinguishing religious, ethnic, and racial taxonomy on this general subject.

Curtis Yarvin aka Mencius Moldbug the NRx guy explains the overrepresentation in left-wing movements by calling it “spontaneous coordination”. To me this seems plausible because various explicitly anti-semitic states have thus far failed to produce HARD evidence of conspiracy. To me this doesn’t “absolve” them of their supposedly subversive activities, but it is certainly less diabolical than an explicitly Protocols level conspiracy. The “non-conspiracy conspiracy” is what I think critics like Cofnas fail to engage with in a real way

>>13323400
The Jews actually have a proverb for this:
>Proverbs 30:27
>The locusts have no king, yet go they forth all of them by bands
They apparently witnessed this activity being done by others. They were likely either already engaged in such behavior themselves, or else emulated it later.

>>13323496
Well this would imply that the spontaneously coordinated actions were in fact a true conspiracy because they actively recognized the power of non-conspiracy conspiracy and included it in their religious texts. If this is true it WOULD be a Protocols level conspiracy, which I’m not so sure about. I absolutely do think that there is an essence behind their actions that sets them against and apart from gentiles, and they would likely agree. However, gentiles supposedly do not have the right to discuss these matters because of their political implications

was allowing jews to become bankers in europe the single greatest mistake in western civilisation?

>>13319594
Imagine being dumb enough to read this.

>>13323640
Imagine being bigoted enough to judge a text while being ignorant of the contents.

>>13319594
My rabbi says this book is stunningly accurate.

>>13319629
Your post doesn't refute anything in CoC.

>>13320254
Not at all. Hitler showed us how easy it is to get rid of Jewish elite in your country. All you need is the will of the people.

I found a full PDF of this book when looking through old folders, no idea as to when or how I downloaded it.

>>13319629
>it's not evolutionary!
>describes a typical survival mechanism especially pronounced in Jews
Wow, you are smart.

>>13319594
It genuinely frightened me if I'm being honest
>>13319629
>>13319655
These points are both explicitly addressed even within the first 30 pages of the book. Did you actually read it at all?
That question might as well be rhetorical.

>>13319594
I think cofnas/peterson are correct that high IQ itself means members of a group will achieve leadership within any given political movement--the desire to subvert the larger society is a conscious preference rather than an evolutionary adaptation.
However, this is no excuse for the ideological, unscientific purposes of these movements--for example it doesn't make Boasian anthropology any less objectively wrong than it is.

>>13325272
what you think are conscious decisions are informed by your biology.

what is it that compels random anonymous gentiles to break lances to defend jews anonymously on the internet? no jew will every reward you for faithfully defending them. You won't get any money for it (ie you do it for free). You won't get a better grade in class or get entered into a lottery. there's no benefit to you reflexibly running cover for jews at each opportunity. yet here is a whole thread of people eager to make sure the totally powerless jews, who were able to lobby to make it illegal took accuse them of lying in multiple countries (holocaust denial, hate speech laws), are treated fairly and not supposedly slandered. Why?

Evolution isn't real

>>13319786
>it’s not taken seriously therefore it’s wrong
Ebin retort schlomo

>>13325272
There are statistically speaking a greater absolute number of Methodists in America with IQs over 140. Why is hollywood, the media, banking, etc not dominated by Methodists?

>>13323585
>allowed
You know the reason why jews became so powerful in the financial/banking sector was because they were forbidden from working anywhere else, right? Anti-semitics like you pretty much gave them the keys to world domination and you didn't even realise it. That's a self-fulfilling prophecy if I ever saw one

>>13325272
But this is still an insufficient explanation. Due to sheer numbers, there are vastly more gentiles than Jews in the US and especially in Europe with IQs as high or higher than any given number you want to pick.
This explanation would still not go the full distance in explaining Jewish dominance of these movements, or why they tend to be or become hostile to the original population's group interests. It only explains overrepresentation relative to the general population.

>>13325411
It's not so much about defending them as it is about criticizing movements aimed at dulling people's senses.

>>13325389
>informed by
This is the crux that a lot of people seem to miss, as they instead infer "dictated by" - which rings less true and carries more of a sense of aggression which degrades the argument.

>>13325525
>You know the reason why jews became so powerful in the financial/banking sector was because they were forbidden from working anywhere else, right?
every man and his dog knows this
they could have just said "fuck off, we don't want you here"

>>13325411
Go to bed, Kevin.

>>13325525
>You know the reason why jews became so powerful in the financial/banking sector
They were masters of monetary exchange since the days of Hiram. They did not learn this trade upon entering Europe as I was taught - and you likely were, also.

>>13325801
>criticizing movements aimed at dulling people's senses
Can you point to where CoC engages in this "dulling"?

>>13325880
Its exclusive focus on Jews does that.

>>13325880
CoC is a book, not a movement

>>13325933
>a book on volcanoes exclusively focused on volcanoes
wtf why is this book so dulling

>the love of money is the root of all evil
>jews love money

>>13325977
>be poor, stupid and talentless
>"power corrupts lol"

>>13325488
Relative to population %, there could/should be high numbers of Methodists in leadership positions of given fields, if what you're saying about Methodist IQ is correct
>>13325272
If you are hashing out representation as Jews vs. Everyone Else, there are high proportions of Everyone Else in leadership positions in all fields, obviously.

The replies to my post rely on the blurring of a line demarcating socialized behavior and biological determinism--the probability that Judaism is a social tool in which members are favored to the detriment of outsiders cannot be disputed; what can be disputed is that this is genetically derived. This allows for the fact that these movements have degraded mainstream society while maintaining in-group integrity of the Jews, a scenario analogous to the in-group's exploitation of a weakness in the rules of a game.
Postulating that this scenario is of genetic rather than social origin is a much, much bolder claim--which I find insanely improbable.
DESU I'm not certain where Mcdonald falls on this, I skimmed the book years ago.
Full disclosure, my understanding of IQ is that it is both heritable/genetic, and is something like a raw measure of potential that doesn't draw much further detail about social proclivities, etc.

>>13326109
meant to reply
>>13325678

>>13325962
The thread is about the book so that is where my focus is.

>>13325992
>"Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely"
>lol
That quote is most commonly attributed to a lord. He was no stranger to power.

>>13326219
That doesn't mean he wasn't an idiot.

>>13319808
>bitchute
No

>>13325968
>book doesn't take into account other overepresented minorities

It's shit and unscientific.

>>13325876
So?
>jews are good with moneys
>force them into banking
>wtf they are overrepresented

>>13326303
>book doesn't take into account other overepresented minorities
State your argument, then; displaying the trends of these other minorities domination leadership of social institutions.

>>13319594
Great book, really opened my eyes about how and why our culture has declined so very drastically.
I would urge everyone here to read it.

>>13326323
>So?
OK, I agree that they should never have been given the reins of power. It is often posited, however, that their acumen regarding monetary exchange was a newfound one, only developed once entering Europe.
>force them into banking
Frankly, any faith based prohibition on Christians engaging in banking should have been applied to everyone in the country that was making a faith based regulation - not just those adherent to the Christian faith. I, too see this as a fault.

>>13319594
I have bought and sent copies to my friends and acquaintances, especially young people. A book that should be required reading in High School. I wish I had read it sooner.

>>13325411
LOL like incels white knighting for random eTHOTs...

The entire Abrahamic system is really a problem. The whole thing needs to be abolished over time.

>>13319629

I simply urge people to just read the book and judge it for yourselves. Maybe you will agree with it, maybe you will not. But if you think about it, anyone who wants to discourage you from knowing about the facts contained within the book is to be viewed with suspicion. Just read it, check the references, and judge for yourself.

>>13319744
Indeed! Just like you!

>>13326329
>displaying the trends of these other minorities domination leadership of social institutions.
What?

>>13326359
Banking is a useful tool for developement. Banning it is just stupid.

>>13319629
Jews don't think in terms of left-right, they think "What is good for the Jews at this moment in time?" At one moment this might mean Commnism, at another national populism (provided it's pro-Israel, so it may as well be called Ziopopulism or something), at another moment, Progressive Liberalism, etc.

>>13325411
Why do you think they're gentiles?

>>13325968
>a book focusing on only one part of the tribe of Abraham
That's its flaw. It doesn't address the whole tribe.

>>13326296
Not like there is a choice when youtube takes down the vids.

>>13326303
>a book about volcanoes doesn't talk about plateaus
You're an idiot.

>>13326510
see
>>13326519

The book is not about whites or islam. It's a book about jews. When dealing with jews why is it always that they get held to different standards. Do you critique a book about italians when it doesn't also talk about irish? No, of course not.

>>13326526
If you're going to talk about Jews you might as well talk about their ideological cousins who cause just as many problems. We've got three birds to stone. The JQ should really be the AQ.

>>13326547
I look forward to your revised vision including the entire genealogy. Until then though, CoC works as a solid thesis of a specific group.

>>13319629
You didn't read it.

>>13326572
>revised vision
What?

>>13319632
This topic makes me uncomfortable, so I am going to driveby this thread with the first critique of the book Google finds rather than engaging with the substance of the work, reading both the criticisms and responses, and forming my own informed opinion.

>>13319786
kekking at em schlomo global homos

>>13326599
I'm saying if you want a book that covers the whole "AQ", write it yourself. As it stands CoC is a stand alone about jews. There is nothing wrong with that.

>>13326612
What substance? The author contradict himself.
>no you see jews try to make the society more tolerant by importing blacks and muslims who are, by far, more antisemit than the native population

After that it's just a matter of cherrypicking.

>>13326669
Read the book. You are reacting to a Wikipedia summary.

>>13326647
I'm not a scientist. As for the philosophy and politics of it, Nietzsche and Hitler already happened — they've got it covered.

>>13326686
It's litteraly what the author say about his book though though. That he wrote his book because he considered that jews replaced white by immigrant to make the society more tolerant; which is bullshit if you stop to think about it for two second.

>>13326713
Don't watch a 5 minute YouTube video about the book. Read it. He talks everything you are bringing up. You can either buy his explanations or not, but don't ignore them, then pretend that I am the ignorant one.

>>13326771
I'm litteraly basing myself on his own comments though. I can't gind it right now but it was in his anwser to being btfoed by >>13319632

>serious responses

>"fk off schlomo"
>"jews are scum lol"
>"if you're white, stop defending jews lol, they don't care about goys"
>ad infinitum

And you guys wonder why nobody engages you NatSocs in serious debate.

>>13323839
I'm aware of the contents. The author is ignorant and fills in his own choice answers. Big example is when he goes on about the Frankfurt school, all bs.

>>13326788
Cofnas critique leaves a lot to be desired. There have been multiple take downs of it and cofnas himself refuses to debate anyone.

https://www.bitchute.com/video/orW0qC0XyY8/

>>13326809
>I'm aware of the contents.
what a unique way to say you didn't read it

>>13326799
Not anyone that you are memeing about here and I have a serious question that seems to be at the core of the MacDonald theory. We all know that considerable diversity exists within the Jewish community. One would expect that Zionist and conservative Jews would NOT criticize their own group's overrepresentation, in, for example, a Harvard graduate program. Why then do socially liberal and progressive Jews NOT criticize this overrepresentation, which is a kind of open secret? If a white gentile criticizes white power and overrepresentation you do not label him anti-white, which would lead one to think that Jewish self-criticism is not inherently self-hating or anti-Semitic. This is where Cofnas comes in: "Of course you cannot expect any Jew to criticize his group's power, because any criticism of Jewish power is inherently anti-Semitic". This seems to be an unfair double standard. I know that there are many anti-Israel Jews. However, you cannot claim that these people are proof that Jews are wholly self-critical, because the question I am posing is "Why do none of them seem to criticize their power in Western societies, when one would expect people of a liberal-progressive persuasion to be critical of their privileged in-group"

>>13326898
I will never care about anything you say NatSoc.

>>13326916
>unironically calling people natsoc
cringe

>>13326951
>unironically thinking I'm going to waste precious minutes of my life seriously arguing with someone who would have me executed if they had political power

cringe indeed

>>13326959
>only natsoc execute their enemies
kek
If you're not gonna converse, why are you shitting up the thread more? And FYI, maybe .01% of "anti-semites" are unironic natsoc. I'm not and find great predictive and historical value is CoC. I'm happy to hear your rebuke to Macdonalds points.

>inb4 noo you're actually a natsoc and you don't know it. National socialism's only defining characteristic is hating jews!

>>13326987
>If you're not gonna converse, why are you shitting up the thread more?

Or, how about you stop spreading your shit propaganda instead and stay in your fucking /pol/ hugbox.

>>13326987
What are his points besides that Jews shaped civilization to ensure their survival and that they are a very power-centric people?

>>13319713
yes, and they're conserving what? Not white culture for sure

>>13326455
>What?
Show me the other minorities that have over-representation and show me that they are forcing their will on the majority population as much as the Jews are. Further, show me a minority population that does so without help from the Jews.
>Banning it is just stupid.
Well, letting interlopers run it for you has proven itself to be stupid.

>>13326489
To draw a starker comparison, it could easily be Communism in one time and place and Capitalism in another.

>>13327001
>everyone I don't like is natsoc and /pol/
It's like a parody at this point. Seems to me that the people against CoC are always the angry ones shouting ad homs.

>>13327004
Do you mean what are Macdonald's points in CoC? Or what are the points of poster I was relying to?

>>13319655
Welcome to the Kosher sandwich. You can pick from two options, red and blue, both won't give you want they promise you, but they both will do whatever benefits jews. >>13327027 They conserve jewish oligarch interests as we have come to find out.

>>13326489
>Jews don't think in terms of left-right, they think "What is good for the Jews at this moment in time?"
Underrated and truthful post. Excellent summary of the jewish thought process. It even extends to their own twisted faith. It's all about finding technicalities in God's rules.

>>13327042
>Do you mean what are Macdonald's points in CoC?
This one.

>>13321659
Yeah, they admit to stuff in their own publications, you can easily find it, like here for example:
https://www.jpost.com/Magazine/Was-the-Russian-Revolution-Jewish-514323

They just get mad when others point it out.

>>13327055
I haven't read CoC in years, so it might be difficult to separate my thoughts from the way I recall his. You grasped at a bit of it before. Though I'm not certain it's necessarily a lust for "power", but rather survival. I also wouldn't say jews created, but rather perverted gentile societies in a paracitical relationship. The white man can live (better) without the jew, but the jew can't live alone. They need a host. McD points out that Jews have different interests in the construction of culture. They think differently as a race. Most of their patterns of thinking and acting are incompatible with whites (and any other gentile group). The same way you wouldn't expect an african to share the same though process or values. CoC documents a good bit of historical and psychological evidence for this thesis. He points out all the specific examples of policy like "nationalism for me, but not for thee", immigration, homoshit, etc. that the jews are pushing in the west. McD's point I would say is that there is an evolutionary biology explanation for why the jews do what they do.

My personal thoughts go back further and have a bit of a more metaphysical view. The Jewish Revolutionary spirit is a great book I would also recommend for a different view of why they're so god damn awful (my words).

>>13326809
>when he goes on about the Frankfurt school
>all bs
Please, articulate.

>>13327111
Why would anyone ever need to go to school to learn to make hotdogs?

>>13327130
based

>>13327095
Does McD ever address Nietzsche's point that Jewish nature contributed to the sciences?

>>13326841
Fuck off Gariepy make your video shorter

>>13327095
That's my problem woth the book, it's just bullshit peddles as an abso'ute axiom. The jew is a great hydra! When he is communist he want egalitarianism to benefit jews. When he is pro-homo he want society to become more tolerants of sexual deviants (and so apparently jews?) When he is part of a conservative organization he do so to show that he and his people can integrate into society. When the jew lead an organization it is jewish. When a bunch of jews work in important roles in an organization lead by a goy then they uses the goy as a shield to hide themselves.

The truth is, the people who takes CoC seriously have found their Satans and the book simply provide them an undisputable """proof""" of the motive of their ennemies along with a way to handwave jews that doesn't fit into their stereotype. It is a modern Protocol of Zion, pure projection and fearmongering.

>>13327147
I don't recall, however my own assertion is that jewish contribution to science is grossly over rated. Jew's rarely go into STEM instead electing for Law and Finance, both of which have been corrupted to no end. Jewish SAT scores early on we're artificially inflated when people like Kaplan organized large scale cheating rings for his tribe of jews. I would not be surprised to learn that the entire "askenazi are highest IQ" is a fake meme.

We see people like Einstien, who stole everything he ever did. Relativity was done by maxwell many years before, etc. And people like Jung, who succeed in setting back psychology for god knows how long.

>>13327147
>Does McD ever address Nietzsche
Not him, but I do not recall him ever being referenced and he is not listed in the index.

>>13327178
Go post your complaint on his videos, not to me.

>That's my problem woth the book, it's just bullshit peddles as an abso'ute axiom
Ok, but it doesn't. It presents a hypothesis, and then backs it up with citations. Literally everything could be critiqued that way.

>The "No way jews could play multiple sides of an argument"-argument
People have been honing dialectic for thousands of years. You have the capability to set a up win win relationship, why do you think it's not possible for others?
>scapegoat argument
Can a jew ever be at fault for anything? If I point out a jew is responsible for most of the antisemetic hate crimes is that antisemetic boogieman? (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/michael-ron-david-kadar-teenager-charged-jewish-bomb-threats-us-florida-georgia-israel-a7697046.html))

Nobody says "all jews" or that they are responsible for every problem. The reality is, for most of things that I don't like, jews are over represented in it. Make of that what you will. There's insurmountable evidence for the claims in the book. I would encourage you to construct a solid refutation of the points rather than project some intent on the author and readers. I haven't seen a single refutation in this entire thread. It's just people mind reading that if you like it, you must be natsoc.

>>13326916
The post I was replying to implied that you wouldn’t engage with “non-serious” responders but apparently you won’t respond to serious ones either. So we now see that it wasn’t the shitposting that you found objectionable, and that you just used this apparent concern for the level of discourse in the thread to mask your extreme paranoia and hatred of “muh natsocs”

>>13319629
>literal jewish pilpul 101 bait
>responding to this
well

>>13319629
>since the left are the only ones who care about minority rights
The left wins super-majorities among racial minorities, why would they ever be compelled to do stuff for them?
It's more that the left represents a revolutionary view of America while the right implicitly represents a traditional one (and everyone knows that traditional implies white). The left sees the civil rights movement as the second American revolution while the right sees the civil war as a second revolution that was defeated (most would say rightfully so but not condemning the confederates as evil is enough to earn the scorn of progressives).

>>13327294
I unironically come to CoC threads just to learn their dialectics.

>>13327191
>>13327232
I suppose that is not surprising, considering it's not a philosophical text, and MacDonald doesn't seem to be a philosophically inclined individual. Same goes for his writer, Dr. Joyce.

>>13329157
If you would like a more philosophical take down of the jews, Check out Jewish Revolutionary Spirit by E michel jones. Great read

>>13329183
>Jewish Revolutionary Spirit by E michel jones
I think this thread has gone about as far as it will on its own merit. Some suggestions like this are appreciated - at least by me (as this thread peters to oblivion). There are probably a few lurkers who will benefit.

>>13329157
>I suppose that is not surprising
Frankly, he kept the text pretty close to the vest. He especially uses a lot of Jewish sources, making it difficult for them to claim fabrication; also a lot of straight historical information that is not in general dispute.

>>13329387
If you just repeat exactly what jews say about themselves and to each other, it's considered so hateful it will get you banned on social media lmao. Seriously, fuck them.

>>13329401
Jews will say to each other "we run all the powerful institutions!" and then ruin another person's life if he says "Jews run all the powerful institutions."

>>13319629
Decent bait, well thought out. 7/10

>>13327046
>It's all about finding technicalities in God's rules.
Reminds me of a news piece from my country last year, when some Jews wanted to watch one game from the World Cup on Saturday, so they traveled somewhere to technically avoid the Shabbat or some such Jew shenanigans. The game was postponed lol

>>13329532
>http://www.kosherswitch.com/live/news/videos

>literally evopsych

>>13323008
So you admit there is a Jewish problem?

>>13329634
Is there any doubt?

>>13322172
>“Many Japanese believe that the Jews control the world and are exceedingly intelligent. Instead of leading to anti-Semitic rhetoric, the Japanese feel it is in their best interest to stay on the Jewish people’s good side,” he told The Jerusalem Post on Tuesday.
Kō Enerugī Kasokuki Kenkyū Kikō

>>13326109
>Postulating that this scenario is of genetic rather than social origin is a much, much bolder claim--which I find insanely improbable.
List one (1) behavior which is not influenced by genetics. Protip: you can't. All behavior is genetic.

Well I plan on travelling to Jerusalem in a month.

I have have nothing to add to this thread until after it.

God bless us all.

>>13329532
I started to think about all the subversive shit they do to get around their own damn scriptures. But the list was so fucking extensive it was tiring. Their own hats are because you're not supposed to go outside without your head covered and they wanted the smallest technical "protection". There was something about not leaving your home on so they just strung a string around the entire town and now that's their "home". The entire jewish religion has been changed when they introduced the talmudic traditions as a response to jesus and their denial of the logos. The most prominent rabbis in the past were those who could linguistically subvert their own god. Truly a disgusting people.
These god damn light switches too >>13329584

>>13319594
Great book, really opened my eyes.

Trash

>>13320110
You don't ban lies, you only ban that which you cannot refute.
Same thing with political speech. Why put people in jail for simply questioning the holocaust, like Ursula Haverbeck? She was imprisoned last time for simply asking where the 6 million bodies are.You could just answer the question, refute the points of the skeptics one by one. If you don't do this, it is because you cannot do it.
The minute you censor something that says to me that it is something I need to read, see or hear about because if it weren't important you would not censor it.

>>13320006

The Arabs have attacked the Israelis on several occasions, losing those wars has had consequences for the Arabs. Even so, the Israelis treat the Palestinians better than is typical for conquerors, this is especially striking given the extremism of the Palestinians.

>>13331610
Why did the Nazis ban various books, artists, television and so forth while imprisoning various politicians, activists, etc.?

>>13331696
I meant films. Not television.

>>13327028
Poo. Easy.
https://www.lowyinstitute.org/the-interpreter/remarkable-political-influence-indian-diaspora-us

>>13331610
Deniers are literal liars though. The fake holocaist is one of the most important point of their worldview they are ready to distort reality to push their mental illness. If you dislike the jews for being dishonest you should dislike deniers even more.

>>13327234
Dude last time I got linked to your site it was to watch a 2 hours video on how nazis dindu nuffin. I've skipped to the half point of you video and you just stand there thinking. The video could cleary be trimed down I'm not watching a 2 hour badly edited rant.

>You have the capability to set a up win win relationship, why do you think it's not possible for others?

But again this is just projection on your part. This is like a feminist calling you sexist because she felt wronged by the way you looked at her.
Now that I think about it this is the same kind of ideology. An axiome to explain the bad in the world (sexism/jews) and then you focus on whatever agree with your viewpoint.

>https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/michael-ron-david-kadar-teenager-charged-jewish-bomb-threats-us-florida-georgia-israel-a7697046.html
First of all your link doesn't say jews are responsible for most antisemits threats, seco d of all it's some autistic faggot with a brain tumor I doubt that he represent your average jew.

>Nobody says "all jews"
That's what the book is all about pea for brain.
Hell this thread disagree. That's a pretty dishonest statement.

>>13331610
>The minute you censor something that says to me that it is something I need to read
This is quite telling in regards to where your priorities are at.

>>13331696
Whataboutism.

>>13330511
Yes, we are biological organisms, all our behavior is genetic, that's not an argument, it's a tautology that opens up a blanket excuse for antisocial (but genetically successful) behavior

>>13332041
>Poo.
Though this satisfies my first requirement, it does not fulfill the second - that they do it on their own. It was only due to the Jews throwing the immigration floodgates open that the Streetshtters are here in any significant numbers.
>Deniers are literal liars though.
>counterfeit chimneys
>counterfeit trapdoors
>wooden, unsealed gas chamber door
>evacuating 150 bodies from a room in ten minutes
>spy plane photos of Jews arranging for roll call on rooftop
>masturbation machines
>tram that launches live Jews into furnace 15 at a time
>lampfuckingshades
Tell me about those lies.

this fucking thread

>>13332140
Yeah /pol/ really tries hard to taint every single board. I don't get why they even bother.

>>13332140
>this fucking thread
Not an argument.

>>13332151
Hey, if /pol/ is so easily brainwashed why can’t lefties brainwash them?

>>13332041
Out of curiosity were you supportive of “all men”

>>13332138
>that they do it on their own.
The USA always had massive amount of immigrations and poo are clearly organizing their own to take over. Just go ask /g/ about indians in tech companies.


>counterfeit chimneys
>counterfeit trapdoors
What? Are you referring to the fact that russians rebuilt part of Auschwitz after bombing it? That's public knowledge. And if that prove that the holocaust didn't happen then I guess the Khmer Rouge massacres didn't either since the viet tried to preserve building linked with the killing

>wooden, unsealed gas chamber door
You can find an explanation for that in less than 5 minutes on google

>evacuating 150 bodies from a room in ten minutes
?

>spy plane photos of Jews arranging for roll call on rooftop
What?

>masturbation machines
>tram that launches live Jews into furnace 15 at a time
Literally only exist in a single book written by a non-historian. If it wasn't for deniers trying to push their narrative it would be completely forgotten. Hell I remember one of those books being written by an aussie goy who faked being a jew.

>lampfuckingshades
Proven false during the nuremberg trial

So yes, as one can see deniers are either so limited that they cannot do a quick internet search or they just push their narrative, knowing it's complete bullshit.

Please tell us why you lie.

>>13332544
Isn't that some feminist movement that blame all men? No.
If you want I do acknowledge that jews can be terribly whiny but in my country muslims are far worse.

>>13332110
Back to plebbit, retard.

>>13332786
Ad hominem.

>>13331696
they were authoritarians who believed in propaganda, just like the left today

>>13332637
>thinks anyone hates jews from interacting with them
it's because they run the evil institutions we all hate like banks and the fed.

>>13333103
No, that was an insult.

>>13332625
>what?
>what?
>what?
These are all well accounted, popularly known bullshitisms about the Holocaust. I am not spinning my wheels for you.
>Proven false during the nuremberg trial
Please, point to this. I was taught this as fact in grade school - along with soap and book covers. To the best of my knowledge, this stood as institutionally accepted fact until a lampshade was DNA tested, many decades later.

>>13333176
HAVE SEX YOU INCEL FREAK

>>13333116
At least Hitler was honest about using propaganda. He openly wrote on the topic.

>>13333141
Is that all you are capable of sharing with us?

>>13333181
>HAVE SEX
Please, provide said sex.

>>13332625
Nuremberg ''trial'' was a complete farce

>>13332041
>Dude last time I got linked to your site it was to watch a 2 hours video on how nazis dindu nuffin
What you mean to say is a video refuting the confas critique. CoC is the topic of this thread. You're honestly impossible to get out of your radical subversive mindset.

>"All jews" That's what the book is all about pea for brain.
It literally does not say that. Your bad intentioned arguing is so commonplace with jews that it's pretty evident you have no intention of discussion, just to promote your own contrarian world view.

>everyone who critiques the jewish worldview is a denier and literal liar
kek. Just kek.

> it's some autistic faggot with a brain tumor I doubt that he represent your average jew.
If only you knew how wrong you actually were. And the article's sources show how almost every antisemitic activity towards synagogues reported by the FBI in that year was done by an IDF related hacker.

>>13332151
>everyone I can't refute or outsmart is /pol/

>>13332625
This is shilling to derail the thread. Don't argue about the holohoax with this kike. Focus on the main issue. CoC has yet to have a single refutation in this thread. Remember that.

>>13333176
don't argue with the jew. It's a derail tactic to get us away from discussing Culture of Critique

>>13333227
>CoC has yet to have a single refutation in this thread.
Not scientifically at least. Its value in other areas was already disputed.

here's an upload link for Culture of Critique:
https://www.mediafire.com/file/9mo6rdo2cmnlxw1/KM_-_CoC.pdf/file
also, here's MacDonald's two prior books in his "Critique" series:
1994 - A People That Shall Dwell Alone
https://www.mediafire.com/file/19d5plp6i6cb3oq/KM_-_APTSDA.pdf/file
1998 - Separation and Its Discontents
https://www.mediafire.com/file/ajnrv4v5rypoema/KM_-_SaiD.pdf/file

>>13333195
My favorite was the Dönitz trial. The prosecutors had to lodge alternate charges because the original charges were wholly derived from Allied propaganda.

>>13333384
>Not scientifically at least.
Or even factually. The only "critique" has been mindreading and projecting bad intent on the author and readers. Which only proves how utterly undefensible jewish behavior is

>>13333227
>>13333231
>This is shilling to derail the thread.
Fair enough, but it seemed like it was about to drop out of the catalog anyways. Frankly, I do not recall a CoC thread going to bump limit without Jewish assistance.

>>13333652
Yeah, this one surprisingly still has a bit of activity. Most shills get in, shit all over, then leave.

>>13333648
>has been mindreading and projecting bad intent on the author and readers
Not him, but this is why I mentioned the dialectics earlier in the thread. I like when these threads stretch for a while so you can see the evolution in their argumentation. The more they engage, the more they expose the reality that their argumentative patterns are based in deception, threats, insults, and misdirection rather than in the facts of the case.

>>13333676
True. It's Hegelian dialectic with Talmudic pilpul. A force to be reckoned with if you don't know a jew is talking. Knowing that someone is a jew (or pro jew) is the best life hack to understanding philosophy and political debate. It means you know for certain that they are lying in bad faith. Works 99% of the time.

>>13333648
>The only "critique" has been mindreading and projecting bad intent on the author and readers.
I'm the metaphysics guy earlier in the thread. That is most of the thread, but my critique was on the philosophical value of the book. Being a work of science doesn't make it exempt from such criticism, or make such criticism invalid. Science says nothing; it just gives us data. But we don't just want data, obviously; we want data so that the decisions we make are informed and effective. The value of data rests on the kinds of decisions we plan on making. The book has some sociopolitical value in this regard — but if you are interested in decisions affecting the world at large rather than a specialized section of it, this book doesn't offer data to assist with that, because it models its data in a useless manner (namely, by choosing to focus on an extremely fluid, and even somewhat subjective, grouping).

>>13332625
>The USA always had massive amount of immigrations
What is:
The Naturalization Act of 1790 (restricting naturalization to "free white men of good character")?
The Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882?
The Immigration Act of 1917?
The Immigration Act of 1924?

The USA has had explicitly racist restrictions on immigration for the majority of its history. It's only since the Hart-Cellar act of 1965 that the floodgates to non-white immigration were opened.

>>13333857
I didn't really see your post as a critique or rebute, more like an interesting in additional information.(If that's the post I'm thinking of) I was the one that suggested "The Jewish Revolutionary spirit" as additional reading. They're very much intertwined if you like the full picture.

>if you are interested in decisions affecting the world at large rather than a specialized section of it
There are books that specialize on butterflies. Is there not value in that because butterflies are part of an entire environment? It's a very talmudic tactic to argue on the basis of re framing. "The book has accurate info, but it's not framed in a way I want so it's wrong"
>models data in a useless manner
I disagree, it's pure opinion that it's useless. I consider the information valuable for it's descriptive and predictive capabilities.
>flexible grouping
Race phenotype are a lot less fluid than you might imagine. A common similar debate tactic when discussing race is to deconstruct what "white" means, yet use it as a category when it suits the anti-white agenda. Like white privilege. It's a tactical deconstruction. We instinctively know the difference between a black man and white man. (Jew is a bit harder because they have pale skin). This is once again, a framing tactic. It's never debating the core facts or premise, but attacking the foundation of knowledge.

>The value of data rests on the kinds of decisions we plan on making
This is a very post modern take. Similar to the "all truth is subjective" model of thinking. Which of course is true to an extent, but really only helpful in deconstructing western society in practice. Personally I'm currently of the believe it is up to the individual to find the frame of reference that is of best fit in it's predictive capabilities. So far I've made lots of money betting on political outcomes with just applying the JQ. So I'll let that anecdote convey my frame.

>>13334173
And the Hart-Cellar act was LIED about to the population. They said it would under no circumstances change the demographic makeup of the country. WHOOPS, guess you can't trust the ((media))

>>13334173
>The USA has had explicitly racist restrictions on immigration for the majority of its history
I'd rephrase this, considering how accusations of racism constitute a slur against one's character.
For example, Japan took in refugees of the Syrian Civil War numbering only in the double-digits, and they've taken basically no steps to making it easier for gaijin to become a citizens.
Their immigration system could properly be described as almost "closed," which would be similar to the tightly-managed immigration systems that predominated in the English-speaking world until ~1960s.
Nobody freaks out about Japan today, so no one should impute retroactive guilt against the developed world for similar measures.

>>13334308
>I didn't really see your post as a critique or rebute, more like an interesting in additional information.
I guess that is why you didn't respond further to it. It was essentially a pragmatist's refutation of it.

>There are books that specialize on butterflies. Is there not value in that because butterflies are part of an entire environment?
Only certain specialized roles in society will have use of such books.

>It's a very talmudic tactic to argue on the basis of re framing.
That's a bit silly. Our civilization has had poets for millennia; poets do nothing but re-frame. In fact, to interpret something at all is to re-frame it; this is called perspectivism.

>(Jew is a bit harder because they have pale skin)
That is what I meant. When you start to try and dissect a group that is as complex as Jews, who have religious, ethnic, and racial components interwoven together all throughout Western nations, you very easily run into the problem of generalizing the wrong things. Case in point: your remark about re-framing. We can see the danger of such generalizations with Mao and the Four Pests campaign or mass killing of landlords he issued.

I personally see such generalizations rather faulty by design, and not worth attempting to model a strategy from; you're liable to outline a trait that is actually extremely useful in certain scenarios, removing it entirely, and then finding yourself royally screwed over when nature throws a curve ball at you and you're no longer prepared for it.

>>13334173
>explicitly racist
Protecting one's own race is not racism.

this is a picture of a jewish guy, apparently
this got me wondering
how many "jewish" people are actually jewish?

>>13334308
>(Jew is a bit harder because they have pale skin).
Please, read Pardes and consider his taxonomy. Do not make me post more images of Ethiopian Jews.

>>13334487
>pragmatist's refutation
The practical application of CoC and the JQ at large are immense and applicable in my own every day life. Your pragmatic world view is not shared with everyone. The pragmatic reason to avoid reading and discussing the JQ is solely the pushback both socially and professionally you will get when talking about it public. And possibly the depression that follows with most when they learn of the history.

>Only certain specialized roles in society will have use of such books.
My specialized role is understanding the current meta political landscape. For that CoC is beyond helpful to the point of required reading.


>When you start to try and dissect a group...
yes this is exactly what I said the debate tactic was. What is black? What is white? What is Asian? A spectrum of genetics does not mean there are not divisions. Just because there are mixed race people doesn't negate "race". Is morgan freeman black?

>I personally see such generalizations rather faulty by design, and not worth attempting to model a strategy from
Your opinion is noted, there are however many who would disagree with that assessment. Myself included. If you would like to propose a greater frame which provides a better assessment of the situation, feel free. But I want to see either a hard refutation of CoC or a compiled work of similar caliber. So far I haven't seen any compelling evidence which suggests a different frame is better.

>>13334522
For the sake of conversation, when I say Jew in this thread I mean the greater jewish phenotype. Western people are not trained to recognize ashkenazis as a separate race.

>>13334514
My grandfather was a prominent Nazi during WW2 and even continued his belief after immigrating to his receiving nation. My own father kept me from ever meeting him due to his insane ideological beliefs and I haven't thought of him much since his passing. That was until my family ordered 23andme tests and discovered that my father was approx 80% Ashkenazi and and I'm approx 40% making my Grandfather who held intensely anti-semetic beliefs over 50% jewsish himself. How did this happen? How did the Nazi's not know? Well It turns out ashkenazi Jews aren't always immediately noticeable from their phenotypic features. On my fathers side the only hints were the dominant black hair, deep brown eyes, and pronounced nose(though not hooked). He easily passed from someone belonging to the region of black forest and it seems at some point in his family line they converted from Judaism to Lutheranism, hence how they (thankfully) slipped through the cracks of detection.
Why this whole spiel? Well the pictures of my grandfather from WW2 closely resemble this man.(I won't share hem as it will easily identify my family with a reverse search) So instead the better question might be "How many people have jewish heritage that has gone unnoticed?"
Thanks for reading my blog post :^)

>>13334712
In the end it wouldn't matter if not all jews were killed, as it isn't really about race. If the jewish religion and it's followers were dissolved that would be enough.

>>13334685
>If you would like to propose a greater frame which provides a better assessment of the situation, feel free.
I already did that earlier in the thread, namely, changing the "JQ" to the "AQ" and focusing more on ideology than race. nb

I must have missed it earlier in the thread. What is JQ?

>>13334727
Ideally, all of the synagogues, mosques, and churches should be dissolved eventually, as they are little more than shelters for ancient death cults that have outlasted their cultural importance.

>>13334807
>goes to google
>enters: culture of critique jq
>gets: https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&ei=a2QMXcbzFsaE-gTuzpuoDA&q=culture+of+critique+jq&oq=culture+of+critique+jq&gs_l=psy-ab.3...9472.23867..25030...0.0..0.160.2173.20j3......0....1..gws-wiz.....0..0i67j0j0i131j0i10.4C4XWu1QnZE
It really is that easy.

>>13334807
The Jewish Question AKA, the left is 100% the fault of the jew.

>>13334173
Restriction on said massive immigration that didn't last. Are you dumb?
>the floodgates to non-white immigration were opened.
And the definition of who was acceptable white or not loosened with time, you're really not proving anything. Now away with you ideological cockroach.

>>13333676
>The more they engage, the more they expose the reality that their argumentative patterns are based in deception, threats, insults, and misdirection rather than in the facts of the case.
That's funny coming from someone who call everyone who disagree with him a jewish shill.

>>13333648
>The only "critique" has been mindreading and projecting bad intent on the author and readers.
That's literally what the author do with the jews though.

>>13333176
>These are all well accounted, popularly known bullshitisms about the Holocaust. I am not spinning my wheels for you.
Another lie.

>Please, point to this.
See pic related you lazy bastard. Even if you're being honest, this question just prove you're too dumb to do a 3 words search.

>I was taught this as fact in grade school - along with soap and book covers.
Again, another lie. Please KYS.

>>13334948
>That's funny coming from someone who call everyone who disagree with him a jewish shill
Point to where I have ever used the term "Jewish shill".
>See pic related you lazy bastard.
That is all about "The Trial of Ilse Koch" and the failure of authorities to convict her on charges of making the lampshades - not a refutation of human lampshades in general.

>>13335052
>Point to where I have ever used the term "Jewish shill".
" They" to generalize your opponent in a thread where the people who agree with you are screaming about jewish shill.

>That is all about "The Trial of Ilse Koch" and the failure of authorities to convict her on charges of making the lampshades - not a refutation of human lampshades in general.
And that's where the rumor come from, you dishonest snake.

>>13335213
>" They" to generalize your opponent
I find it interesting that you consider this a valid form of argumentation.
>And that's where the rumor come from
This seems entirely probable.
>you dishonest snake.
I like this, also. It shows that you know that your argument falls flat. If you smear some emotion on it like this then am I supposed to fold? Why should I fold just because you are insulting and hateful? A lot of people have too much decorum to face insults like this but this tactic is being so heavily overused that it is losing efficacy.

>>13334513
It is racist. There's nothing wrong with racism, or being racist. Reminder that "racist" means "white".

>>13334712
We've heard this bullshit story a thousand times. Do you have a bridge to sell us as well?

>>13335623
>>13335623
>I find it interesting that you consider this a valid form of argumentation.
How is this not?

>This seems entirely probable.
Well yeah muh lampshade is just a rumor. Of course it is false, but some baseless rumor being false and being proven wrong in an official trial doesn't mean the historical narrative of the holocause is false, quite to the contrary.
But of course you know this, you're simply trying to cast shadow on me since you can't find fault with the truth.

>I like this, also. It shows that you know that your argument falls flat. If you smear some emotion on it like this then am I supposed to fold? Why should I fold just because you are insulting and hateful? A lot of people have too much decorum to face insults like this but this tactic is being so heavily overused that it is losing efficacy.
t.nazi incel
Pushing your century old propaganda isn't going to get you laid, jew.

>>13335052
You have done swimmingly in this thread but in the future, one tip I would give you: don't engage regarding the holohoax. It's simply a distraction. That's the entire point of the holocaust narrative: to distract and emotionally browbeat. Don't be baited by it. Remember that arguing with a jew is like nailing jelly to a wall. You'll never pin them down on anything so just make a strong case and don't let them dictate the flow of the conversation. They are intentionally being dishonest, it's how they are.

>have sex incel schizo

>>13335880
The one who brought up the holocaust was one of you so you're being dishonest(but that's not very surprising).

>>13334796
>focusing more on ideology than race.
I don't see any meaningful justification for this. I can't imagine any world view that ignores race being successful. Ideology is strongly heritable. Even hardcore leftists know innately that race is a real issue. They codeswitch every time.

>>13334948
>The Jewish Question AKA, the left is 100% the fault of the jew.
That's not the entirety of the JQ. The left is one side of the jewish ideology. In general the JQ refers to the hypocritical and subversive nature of Jews in other societies. It documents a parasitical relationship in which they hurt their host nations until they are inevitably kicked out as seen throughout all history.
>That's literally what the author do with the jews though.
Literally mind reading others. Do you have any proof of your claims? The one with bad intent here is YOU.
>another lie
"No U" - woah great refutation

>>13335880
>>13336077
iirc it was one of the CoC detractors who brought up the holohoax when he got cornered. It's a common distraction. There's really no debating with jews and jew tools. Their intent in debate is never truth, it's always to pilpul to get what they want. Their scripture say it's not only fine but encouraged to lie to non jews for any reason.

>>13336479
>I don't see any meaningful justification for this.
From a topdown perspective, civilization has become increasingly specialized in terms of ideology rather than race for the last few centuries at least. The US especially was designed this way since its inception.

>>13335832
?

>>13336542
>civilization has become increasingly specialized in terms of ideology rather than race for the last few centuries at least.
IF we even grant that is true (Which I do not), it's an account of what happened not a justification that it is better.

>The US especially was designed this way since its inception.
This is a mischaracterization of the founding father's intentions. Initially the only people ever considered for immigration were "white men of good character". The diversity of thought was primarily of which flavor of white christian you were. Most things then did not explicitly say race back then because it was so ingrained in society. It was never the intention to have unlimited mexicans, muslims, and pajeets etc. running around. Black certainly were not considered citizens. And one of the major reasons people even agreed to freeing the slaves was that they assumed they would be shipped back. What a rude awakening they were in for.

Excellent book, well researched, exhaustively documented. Just don't listen to what anyone says about it, though, not even me! I urge everyone to read it for themselves and make their own judgements about it.

>>13334514
A real redpill is learning how much German Zionism and National Socialism helped each others achieve their goals. Remember that the only non nazi newspaper allowed to print in 1930's germany was a zionist one. The founders of the Irgun organization in Israel were notorious for being zionist accelerationists

>>13336584
>Which I do not
I'm not sure how you can argue otherwise. Even different professions lead to different ideologies in society, and this along with how to manage these different specializations effectively has been discussed as far back as the Greeks.

>This is a mischaracterization of the founding father's intentions. Initially the only people ever considered for immigration were "white men of good character".
The idea was always to create a society that was founded on a purely metaphysical view. White men were the only ones who were regarded as being able to hold such views (and they are, to this day, the only ones who still can) which is why they held the rights over any other group. However, when the society grew, the government had to relieve those parts in order to expand the metaphysical foundation to sustain itself.

The danger we are running today is the lack of educated white men running the country, because they are the only ones who are able to grasp, tangle with, and manage societies of this scale and complexity; but the scale and complexity of it rests on ideological diversity nonetheless, meaning that many of the society's subsidiaries can, and should, be operated by more than just white men (because then that frees up more white men to pursue the higher roles). To be sure, there are ideologies that are incompatible with the nation, and I already said what one of the major ones currently is — the democrats. The problem with promoting race to chief importance is that you are going to overlook some of our ideological opponents in the process. By promoting ideology to chief importance, you ensure that you will not overlook anyone who is in direct opposition of the nation.

>>13336643
>specialized in terms of ideology rather than race
Academia, media, and politics (which all have a surprisingly high representation of a certain tribe go figure) have continued to push this. I would argue on an individual level, even leftists have not been able to shed racial preferences and actions.

>The idea was always to create a society that was founded on a purely metaphysical view.
Did you ask Washington yourself or is this just an assumption? When I look at the laws at the time to say "white men", I think that gives more credit to my assertion than yours. A Nation is not an idea. A nation includes it's people and culture. It's a historical retcon to consider America a creedal set of ideas. That's the sort of stuff ben shapiro says along with other ((necons)). Because who benefits from this sort of mindset? Certainly not the white people.

>>13336721
>A Nation is not an idea. A nation includes it's people and culture.
All of these things are ideas. Words are ideas.

>Because who benefits from this sort of mindset? Certainly not the white people.
Of course it does, because it allows the civilization to become more technologically advanced. At some point, we aren't going to be needing a lot of these subsidiary roles, due to automation; but for the time being, we do to some extent. However, that doesn't mean giving away the keys to the kingdom to anyone else, because no one else is fit to rule.

You aren't addressing my core point though, which is that focusing on the ideology has the finer and more accurate targeting reach.

>>13336738
>All of these things are ideas. Words are ideas.
Ok man, Not much ground we can work on if literally everything is a subjective relative idea.

> because it allows the civilization to become more technologically advanced
unsubstantiated conjecture. There were several posts above tackling the "jews are so smart we need them" argument already. h1bs for pajeets don't do any high IQ code, they're mostly testers and low priority coding. Those jobs can go to highschool whites. The market can afford to spend an extra dollar for an avocado when it doesn't have the drain of millions of mexicans on it. There is no good argument for civnat immigration of non whites.

>You aren't addressing my core point though, which is that focusing on the ideology has the finer and more accurate targeting reach.
Accurate towards what? Your accuracy is subjective idea. It's different than mine apparently because having tried both, I find the race realism a more effective and accurate approach. If society allowed freedom of association, we could create our own separate groups where like minded people could live the way they want. Sadly that's not the case.

>>13336802
>Not much ground we can work on if literally everything is a subjective relative idea.
Why not? We are already working on said ground by conversing via writing.

>Those jobs can go to highschool whites
Or they could go to college and get better positions, while grunt work is left to the grunts, aka Pajeet who will do the grunt work but for 1/3rd of the pay. But I think the idea now is robots who will require no pay besides the minimal maintenance costs will do the grunt work for us soon.

>Accurate towards what? Your accuracy is subjective idea.
The biggest problems are ideological matters. Race is a suitable metric for handling most of the world's problems, but for the BIGGEST problems, which are also the most abstract problems, it's not enough. You need to combine your approach with both ideological and racial assessments.

>>13336802
>Ok man, Not much ground we can work on if literally everything is a subjective relative idea.
I doubt that's what he meant. A nation is a pretty advanced idea, most whites don't consider themselves a pan-white nation, this has more power than the mere fact of them being genetically closer than the other races. Isn't that also a point made in the OP book, subversive ideas etc.

> If society allowed freedom of association, we could create our own separate groups where like minded people could live the way they want
Contemporary Mormons.

>>13336897
> aka Pajeet who will do the grunt work but for 1/3rd of the pay
economic cost is not the ultimate good. You can outsource a job to a 3rd worlder for cheaper goods, but you cause a negative impact on the local community. When 3rd world shitters are used it negatively affects white nations and in exchange they get cheaper TVs. I'd rather have a cohesive community. The automation argument is a bit too off topic for us to get into here.

>The biggest problems are ideological matters
If that is the case, then it's because ideology is largely genetic and heritable. In my value system I do indeed take into account the ideological approach, but it's intertwined with the biological approach. There is no separating a race's ideology completely from their genetics. https://thealternativehypothesis.org/index.php/2016/04/15/race-is-a-social-construct/


>>13336932
>most whites don't consider themselves a pan-white nation
This is a recent development within the past 60 years.

>Contemporary Mormons.
If you knew of the Mormon history you would know that until they submitted to the standards imposed by the federal govt including segregation and social progressive laws, they were killed for their beliefs. My original statement intends to show how it's so natural for whites to want to live around other whites that there has to be many laws forcing you to diversify your neighborhoods.

>>13336954
>economic cost is not the ultimate good. You can outsource a job to a 3rd worlder for cheaper goods, but you cause a negative impact on the local community.
Local communities have worked on re-engineering themselves for decades to accommodate. What you're asking for is to stop technological advancement in exchange for job security, but life prefers the go-getter who can adapt.

>There is no separating a race's ideology completely from their genetics.
No, but the civilization is complex enough that it requires many different ideologies to work. See: the military. Top of the chain of command possesses quite a different ideological makeup compared to the bottom of it. And the military is just one facet of our civilization, even.

>The automation argument is a bit too off topic for us to get into here.
No it isn't. It is currently a solution to all of this, being worked out as we speak.

>>13337007
particularly hurt by outsourcing and immigration are the minorities

FREE RENT GOY

>>13336479
Italians fascism was more succesful than the german one by far. It collapsed once they got contamined by their autism.

>>13336503
>It documents a parasitical relationship in which they hurt their host nations until they are inevitably kicked out as seen throughout all history.
That's just them being midlleman minority, who existed all over the world. It's nothing jewish. See armenian.

>Do you have any proof of your claims?
Yes, the author cannot possibly know the intent of the jews he quotes and so must rely on his predetermined idea. If you have only an hammer, everything is a nail.

>"No U" - woah great refutation
Do show me your history book who state that the lampshade happened then.

>iirc it was one of the CoC detractors who brought up the holohoax when he got cornered.
I can do a CTRL+F, you imbecile. Jesus, why would you lie about something like this.
>>13325272
>>13331610

I like how you don't mentions most of my refutation of your denial too. Why is that, I wonder.

>>13337007
Globalization is NOT technological advancement lmao. NAFTA's literally stated goal is "even out wealth within the nations". What does that mean for the US? It literally means lowering the quality of life to give it to mexico. That's not technological advancement. That's international finance making money by destroying the west.

You can have diversity of ideology within a race. What you can have is racial cohesion in society. The multicultural project has failed every time it's tried in history and the West is a great example of it failing in real time right before our eyes. There is no place for a subsaharan african in the West. It's not fair to us or them. Likewise there is no place for talmudic practices.

>automation is the solution to all of this
K. I'll just wait for the AI designed by tech oligarchs to come in and save the white race from being demographically replaced by the same people designing the AI. Good to find out that I don't have to worry about anything. Google will provide all I need.

>>13337091
You'll have to read the full work, there is distinctive jewish mindset and culture that encourages parasitical relationships. Do you want me to retype the whole chapter of the book here?
>quotes
He's literally quoting jews. Taking the words right out of their mouth. There's no way anyone can ever get a persons "real" intent, but we look at what they say and do and that's the best metric. That's how CoC backs up the claims (alongside historical documentation).
>lampshades
I think you're misunderstanding the quote chain. I don't believe in lampshades or roller coasters. Or even gas.
>I can do a CTRL+F, you imbecile. Jesus, why would you lie about something like this.
what are you talking about.

>>13337150
>What you can have is racial cohesion in society.
What you CAN'T* have is racial cohesion in society

fixed for clarity

>>13337150
Even with hundreds of quotes, you still can't establish a "distinct jewish mindset", otherwise you could do the same with white.

>I think you're misunderstanding the quote chain. I don't believe in lampshades or roller coasters. Or even gas.
Yes and the lie I was calling out was that dude claiming he was taught in school that lampshade and skin book happened.
>or even gas
ah yes why would the nazis use a gas they had in enormous quantities capable of killing a room full of people in 20 minute. It truly make no sense.

>what are you talking about.
I'm responding to
>iirc it was one of the CoC detractors who brought up the holohoax when he got cornered.
which is false

Are you ok anon?

>>13335827
If you fail to discern the distinction between racism and racialism then many subtleties of argumentation will elude you. Further, logic will carry you places where your anger will fail you.

>>13337198
>otherwise you could do the same with white.
You can though. You even said yourself that whites were uniquely capable of creating and understanding the Western philosophy and values. You can make many high level heuristic and predictive models from just knowing someones race.

>Yes and the lie I was calling out was that dude claiming he was taught in school that lampshade and skin book happened.
In the United States, it was taught as fact. I don't have my 8th grade history book in front me, but it's common in holo museums (a favorite of school field trips) and in coursework. https://www.historynet.com/a-human-skin-lampshade-sparks-a-journey-into-the-heart-of-the-holocaust.htm As truth comes out, they have pulled back on the narrative, but that doesn't mean it was once parroted as fact.
>ah yes why would the nazis use a gas they had in enormous quantities capable of killing a room full of people in 20 minute. It truly make no sense.
why would there be no trace of chemicals and why did they use wooden doors. c'mon let's cut this basic bitch alex jones tier shit out. There are 800 documentaries on the holohoax on youtube (maybe not anymore after the censorship) that you can go watch, I'm not going to get distracted on it here.

>>13337219
his statement is that in practice the slur "racist" is only applied to whites. My addition would be that only whites care about being percied as racist either. Other races are perfectly fine to work in their own best interest.

>>13335842
>How is this not?
Notice how in this dialectic he considers it acceptable to conflate the ideas of someone else with mine. This puts me in the position of needing to defend someone else's ideas (if I accept this paradigm) - perhaps even his own samefagging strawman.
>Well yeah muh lampshade is just a rumor.
Note how in this dialectic no fact can ever be laid against question. If a fact of a case stands for decades as a truth - though it be false - you are a denier for noticing such. Once the fact is proven to be an absurd falsity, then it was never a truth that was promulgated as official curriculum. It is merely a casual rumor and I am a liar for claiming that I was taught this in school.
>t.nazi incel
I assume this to be failed greentexting, calling me both a nazi and an incel - just par for the course.
>Pushing your century old propaganda
Note how he has made the admission that lampshades are a falsity, yet my denying the validity of lampshades is "pushing propaganda".
>isn't going to get you laid, jew.
Note the ever-present appeal to sexuality as if my current status of engagement in sexual congress had any bearing on the validity of my arguments.
>jew
I assume this to be sleepytexting, accidentally identifying me as such.

>>13337150
>Globalization is NOT technological advancement lmao.
I didn't say it is. But the population is continuously growing due to advancements in medicine, and more and more technological systems and manufacturing processes need to be maintained as a result. To think globalization was avoidable while continuing to advance technology is also unsubstantiated conjecture.

>K. I'll just wait for the AI designed by tech oligarchs to come in and save the white race from being demographically replaced by the same people designing the AI.
Are you really suggesting that there are no whites in robotics programs? Not to mention most of the best such programs are military run. The US military remains dominantly white.

>>13335880
>It's simply a distraction.
Sure, but CoC threads typically die prematurely anyways. I am using them at present to hone my dialectics. CoC is well footnoted. I saw very little in the way of holding them to addressing specific faults in the original text. I will work on that.
>You'll never pin them down on anything
Public exposure of their dialectic will be deadly to their cause.

>>13337353
>Public exposure of their dialectic will be deadly to their cause.
We can hope. It's why they make criticizing them illegal. Because they even know they're lying. We need a big jump in general awareness if we hope to reverse their damage.

>>13337265
>You can though.
I can make them pass as whatever I want yes

>You even said yourself that whites were uniquely capable of creating and understanding the Western philosophy and values.
I think you're mixing me with someone else.

>In the United States, it was taught as fact.
Huhu

>https://www.historynet.com/a-human-skin-lampshade-sparks-a-journey-into-the-heart-of-the-holocaust.htm
This site is just clickbait, it clearly oversell the whole thing.
https://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/01/books/01book.html
Here an (((article))) with a more accurate representation of the content of the book. It's just a guy with a lampshade made of skin trying to oversell it, he doesn't even prove it was made by the nazis.

>As truth comes out, they have pulled back on the narrative
They pulled out pretty early then, since as I said , the lampshade that started all those rumor was proven to be made of animal skin during the trials following the loss of the nazis regime.

>but that doesn't mean it was once parroted as fact.
So what? People believe all kind of dumb shits and other rumor about historical events. Does it mean they never happened?
>why would there be no trace of chemicals
There is you dumb lazy baobab.
>Accordingly, the IFRC demonstrated that cyanides were present in all of the facilities where it is claimed that they were exposed, i.e. all five crematoria, the cellars of Block 11 and the delousing facilities.[4] Critics state that any attempt to demonstrate that the crematoria could not have functioned as homicidal gas chambers on the basis that they were not exposed to cyanide is unsuccessful, given that its presence in what remains of these facilities is incontrovertible,[5] and write that all of the gas chambers were exposed to cyanide at levels higher than background levels elsewhere in the camp, such as living areas, where no cyanides at all were detected.[4] In addition, tests conducted at Auschwitz in 1945 revealed the presence of cyanides on ventilation grilles found in the ruins of Crematorium II (thus also demonstrating that the Leuchter report was not the first forensic examination of the camp as purported in the title of the London edition).[5] The historian Richard J. Evans argued that due to Leuchter's ignorance of the large disparity between the amounts of cyanide necessary to kill humans and lice, instead of disproving the homicidal use of gas chambers, the small amounts of cyanide which Leuchter detected actually tended to confirm it.[8]

>why did they use wooden doors.
Again, thirty second on google search, c'mon.

>There are 800 documentaries on the holohoax on youtube (maybe not anymore after the censorship) that you can go watch, I'm not going to get distracted on it here.
All false, which prove that deniers are the true jews.

>>13337392
fuck off with the holohoax de railing. stick on topic or don't post

>>13337265
>his statement is that in practice the slur "racist" is only applied to whites.
This was his original text:
>The USA has had explicitly racist restrictions on immigration for the majority of its history. It's only since the Hart-Cellar act of 1965 that the floodgates to non-white immigration were opened.
You appear to be incorrect. I believe allowing yourself to be pegged as a racist snares you in Trotsky's trap. You are immediately placed on the defensive. Regardless, this was the best engagement CoC has had in quite a while. Even the Holocaust distractions expose the false rhetoric. I will be distilling the suggested reading posited in this thread to help streamline things a bit. If we really want to keep these focused on CoC then we need to insist that they address specific issues in the OC text - which are all footnoted and are often Jewish sources. Any thread that does so will be such a curbstomp that it will not go very far. If someone is late to the show then they will miss everything during opening credits.

>>13337324
>Notice how in this dialectic he considers it acceptable to conflate the ideas of someone else with mine.
I don't see the problem, that's the whole topic of the book discussed ITT

>Note how in this dialectic no fact can ever be laid against question.
I'm sorry but this is what it is.

>Once the fact is proven to be an absurd falsity, then it was never a truth that was promulgated as official curriculum.
It literally never was since this fact started as a false accusation.

>I am a liar for claiming that I was taught this in school.
Yes, I'm sorry but deniers ITT don't have a good track record when it comes to honesty or intellectual capacity.

>yet my denying the validity of lampshades is "pushing propaganda".
By denying the validity of something that was never valid you're implying that it once was. A common tactic among deniers; see the holocauster, the bear in the cage and another thing I forgot.

>Note the ever-present appeal to sexuality as if my current status of engagement in sexual congress had any bearing on the validity of my arguments.
That's what a virgin with rage would say.

>I assume this to be sleepytexting, accidentally identifying me as such.
If the meta-jew is the archetypal trickster, the evil snake, then calling you by this name is correct

>>13337402
>get btfo
>n-no don't talk about it!

Sounds pretty jewish to me desu

>>13337446
It's derailing the thread kike, and no, you didn't btfo anyone.

>>13337491
>It's derailing the thread kike
Why do you keep answering then you blumbering fool

>you didn't btfo anyone.
Antisemits truly are like slime when it comes to argument.

>>13337402
Well, if blame is to be placed, then it is squarely on us. I see this as first being raised here: >>13325411 If we do not want to discuss it then we need to not raise it. I posit that the best way to do this next time is to keep the next thread focused on a requirement for opposition to address specific positions in CoC, not general ideas. Arguing general ideas allows a lot of latitude, with inherent vulnerability to obfuscation and distraction. Keeping on track with MacDonald's statements leaves them vulnerable to his footnotes. This topic is the ultimate hotbutton so distractions are to be expected otherwise.

>>13337436
>If the meta-jew is the archetypal trickster, the evil snake, then calling you by this name is correct
This is the first novel thing that I have seen in a CoC thread in quite some time. Thank you.

>>13337510
Let's be honest, there is no point in debating jews at al on anythingl if there is no gentile audience to get redpilled. Jews by nature are compelled to lie to outsiders.

>>13337446
>>13337491
I am split on the derailment issue. I have never seen a CoC thread go to bump limit without Jewish assistance (derailment).

>>13337544
>there is no point
I am learning the dialectic. Call this tangential or incidental, but it is real and holds value - at least from my selfish personal perspective.

>>13337544
>everyone I disagree with is a jew
Ok

>>13337575
Up your reading comprehension

>>13337588
>there is no point in debating jews at al
How am I misunderstanding there?

>>13337598
I never said everyone is a jew. I said jews are not worth talking with. I'm not replying to you again on this.

So wait I read a bit of this thread, is there seriously no counter points to Kevin MacDonalds facts in the book? wtf I was at least expecting some token resistance against his points.

>>13337618
It was already posted at the beggining. Sowell inderctly btfo it too in one of his essay on the jews.

>>13337670
where?

>>13337685
>https://www.docdroid.net/wSluAFg/cofnas2018-article-judaismasagroupevolutionarystr.pdf

>>13337692
Oh confas. lol Anything else? Or anything original from this thread?

>>13337818
The point of the book isn't to generate interesting discussion, anon. It's to promote anti-globalist propaganda.

>>13337902
k? But even the replies to that post show confas critique is flimsy. I was curious to see if there was anything effective. Guess not.

fuck off ok kevin?

>>13337598
Not that anon but, in fairness to him, the other anon had a dialectic that is common to Jews. Further, when confronted as such, the other did not deny his Jewishness - implying that the claim of Jewishness against him was legitimate. This is a very real phenomenon, and many anon's are able to detect the pilpul and other aspects quite well. I tend to only make the passive observation when I see it, but others like to be more open about it. If a false claim of Jewishness is lodged then it is best for the accused to stand for himself rather than to have someone else white knight for him.

>>13337618
>is there seriously no counter points to Kevin MacDonalds facts?
Next thread we should try to keep more focused to the details in the OC text. As I said previously, the text is well footnoted. If the text is squarely addressed then it stands well on its own. It only really ever "fails" when strawmen are toppled.

>>13338270
That's the picture I'm getting. Nobody ever tackles arguments or data in it. Just calls him and the readers a nazi. The one attempt to debunk, confas, has been debunked itself. It wasn't much better than the opposition in this thread.

>>13319686
Julius Ceasar wanted to redistribute land.