/lit/ - Literature

>>13300403
I don't think so bro. I'm about to major in clinical psychology. AMA

>>13300432
I guess generally, what makes you think that it isn't? Do you assume, or would you acknowledge, that the people you aim to work with are mentally unstable in that they are unable to properly think for themselves, so you have to do the thinking for them?

I think that it’s useful in a very broad sense. However, do I think that it can truly be seen as a medical “science?” No.

I see it now as like medicine was 300 years ago. They’re on the right track but nowhere near being close to an exact science

>>13300403
The psy-sciences are for pseuds. Most people going into a psychology degree admit that they are doing it because they have a pre-established interest in human beings and the human mind and want to learn more about the nuances of human behaviour and what makes us tick just to spend 3-4 years internally pushing their friends into rigid boxes. You can't lecture these people about it either, they're taught from day one that psychoanalysis is a "pseudoscience" and consequently they aren't interested in anything outside of peer reviews, statistics and lecture slides. They aren't interested in literary analysis or in literature at all. Peterson only drones on about dostoyevsky because at heart he's a Jungian. I don't like the guy but you can't say, despite his midwit status, that he isn't ahead of most psychologists in some respects

Irredeemably so.

>>13300481
This. As a psych student I couldn't agree more. Professors make fun of psychoanalysis in class and it makes me cringe. Modern psychology is more horoscope-tier than psychoanalysis ever was

Freud was a genius. So was Lacan -- possibly moreso. Jung is a gnostic prophet. Guatarri is the anarcho-redpill. Reich was a quack but a fun one. Adler is inspiring. James is solid. Can't understand modern theory without them. Positive psychology is kinda retarded.!Cbt and dbt are like lite-stoicism with pop buddhism. Mind is complicated. Psychologists inevitably deal with soul and body. Thus yoga and exercise help a lot too. There's even books about it. Christian therapists are awful, IMO. Jewish therapists are amazing though. Psychiatry is the greatest invention of all time if you are actually insane, otherwise avoid all meds. It's all witchdoctor shit admittedly. But we are a young species. Still learning. Would you rather see a real witchdoctor? Idk. Isn't a psychedelic therapist the same thing? If you appreciate philosophy, you should enjoy psychology. There's even philosophical counseling. Admittedly, a lot of so-called psychology is just studies about american collegiates and bad stats and stuff. But then there is like neuroscience and neurophenomenology. And cognitive science also leads us closer to theory of mind necessary for strong agi.


Get over your fear of being labeled crazy. Therapy really works when you work with it. Find a therapist you like. You can often search by therapeutic modality.

>>13300481
Popper keeps dabbing on psychoanalyst pseuds even from the grave.

>>13300528
>Would you rather see a real witchdoctor? Idk. Isn't a psychedelic therapist the same thing?
There's actual data that magic mushrooms help with depression, death anxiety and trauma though.

>>13300528
>Would you rather see a real witchdoctor?
If I had the choice, I'd rather see a doctor who knew had in-depth knowledge of what they are talking about rather than some Professor Goldsteinberg slide regurgitation which basically reverts back to sucking off Freud. Mind you that humans are nowhere close to having an understanding of the individual mind, so make of all of this what you will.

>>13300403
>>13300432
What can I do, other then pills, to stop feeling detached from reality and unable to actually view it as real. It's just so unrealistic Doc, look at it are you KIDDING.

>>13300541
Exactly. Science learns from the witchdoctory.
>>13300559
Everyone's sucking someone's dick. Science and philosophy is just dick sucking. If your afraid of daddy Freud's D then find a different therapeutic modality.

>>13300568
that sounds like an interesting state of mind, anon, and you should dive into it more and see what you discover. keep reading, keep breathing, find those oases, follow lines of flight

>>13300568
>stop feeling detached
>start feeling this is real
Why would you want to do this?

>>13300403
It’s a method of control, that’s why they have celebrity endorsements to get you to go to therapy now

>>13300599
>detached
>this is real
Okay, so which best resembles your idea of reality?

I have been followed by different psychologists for years and it has come to nothing, then I turned to a psychiatrist and it turns out that I am schizophrenic, oh well

It's professional gas lighting, but for some real crazies it might be necessary to break down their ego and create a new standardised personality.

I did some psych in undergrad, I couldn't get over how dumb the studies were that we participated in for class credits. All these bubble scantron "rate emotion x from 1 to 7" where i feel like i could give 3 different answers. The sense i got was that easily half of what we "know" in psychology is from studies done 30+ years ago with methodology that would never get the go-ahead from a modern ethics board - now its an endless deluge of dumb self report surveys on how you feel where the questions are goofy and answers arbitrary

>>13300403

Sadducee nonsense.

>>13300432
What do you recommend for someone with a severe case of OCD with intrusive thoughts.

>>13301379
>intrusive thoughts.
What the fuck does that even mean? You’re not supposed to be able to control your thoughts.

>>13301389
Without getting into too many details. Having sexual, disgusting, degenerative thoughts about complete strangers or close friends without any reason what so ever. These are completely random and God knows why they even occur.

>>13301414
My experience would say don’t resist thoughts, explore them. Not in a degenerate yourself way, just don’t shut them out, think about them and why you think them.

>>13301414
That's unironically normal. What most people do is ignore those thoughts and move on, and that's what the issue is, not the thoughts themselves.

>>13301426
>>13301439
Yeah well, I kinda did that. I got used to my obsessions, they are no longer that big a problem but I still have to perform my compulsions for some reason and that's what annoys me. I thought if I got used to my intrusive thoughts there would be no need for compulsions. But I still have really strong urges to perform compulsions and can't seem to get rid of them.

>>13300403
Freud and Jung were more on point than anyone is willing to admit. I somehow prefer Jung.

One of the taboos in Eastern European countries is that you never openly admit to hating your parents. If you say you hate them, you go on a rant about why, so you essentially try to justify your hatred. If you hate them for (seemingly) no reason, then you are still going to look for something to justify your feelings rather than accepting that you may actually hate your parents for reasons that are much more primal than your modern-life justifications.

>>13300528
Lacan is a coward or an idiot. Reich is less of a quack than Jung, who could have been a gnostic prophet if he'd shed his German Protestantism. Guattari is more amusement than anarchy. Have you looked into Erikson?
Btw, witchdoctors still cure schizophrenic symptoms at a faster rate than Western medicine. Seeing an actual witchdoctor isn't always a bad idea.

>>13301379
I'm >>13300432
Ocd I usually treatable with behavioral and cognitive methods. The most effective is exposure and prevention . Seek a CBT/metacognitive therapist in your area. It usually takes 6-10 sessions to solve it, but it's crucial that you commit to the therapy (do the homework too)

>>13301389
>You’re not supposed to be able to control your thoughts
Hello mister NPC
>>13301464
>I somehow prefer Jung
Going into mysticism instead of trying to legitimise psychoanalysis by going along with the scientific method was a shit idea. Jung should've been lobotomised.
>>13301500
>Lacan is a coward or an idiot
Citation needed. His therapy might have been really theatrical, but his theory is pretty good. If people went with his ideas instead of behavioural shit, psychology might have been a lot more interesting.

>>13300457
>Do you assume, or would you acknowledge, that the people you aim to work with are mentally unstable in that they are unable to properly think for themselves, so you have to do the thinking for them?

I'm >>13300432
In the first 1-2 sessions, there is a process called assessment, during which therapists use a variety of methods to understand the patients current situation, beliefs worldview, life history etch. It's good practice to use questionnaires as well as just dialogue. This process is crucial because it is the basis to plan the therapy based on the patients need and characteristics.

>>13301500
>witchdoctors still cure schizophrenic symptoms at a faster rate than Western medicine
lit recommendations and opinion on if this is truly the case, how it's done and why it works?

>>13301583
Not him, but when do you think it is reasonable to intervene on the worldview? Do you normally accept most claims and if so, what's a positive test on pathology? Is it simply a case of it interfering with your day to day life and bringing about suffering? And if the worldview is part of the cause, do you tackle it directly, or go for the patient's intuitions which might be nested in other psychological substrates?

>>13300568
I'm >>13300432
Well first I would try to understand if this condition you describe, which usually goes with the name of depersonalization/derealization, is a thing of itself or a symptom of something else. It could be due to prolonged isolation and stress or a personality disorder (much less likely). To do this I would explore several domains, including the inception of this problem, recent stressors, your life history, your personality and so on. Based on this I could tell you more whether therapy or something else is best for you.

>>13300432
Do you think recurring users of 4chan are mentally ill on some level?

>>13300481
>Peterson only drones on about dostoyevsky because at heart he's a Jungian.
You're absolutely brain dead if you think that. He's only able to ramble slightly coherently about Jung but his take home message is still
>clean your room
>do anything to INTEGRATE yourself in society
>if that doesn't work, take antidepressants bucko, ignore all the side effects, it just means you didn't integrate yourself into society enough
Peterson is all about money and social status, that's literally everything he believes in, the rest are just useless formulation that build up to that. It's the same as when he's asked if he believes in God, he says 'I act as if God existed' which is another way to say:
>i'm so neurotic and helpless that I can't decide for 'yes' or 'no', so i'll do slightly ethical things from time to time, just in case that God does exist
He's a atheist in denial, but he still wants to make money.
So if you think he follows Jung's thought, which is entirely based on things like alchemy and mysticism, you've got your head up your ass.

>>13301611
>He's a atheist in denial, but he still wants to make money.
by this I mean that his current 'pseudo-moral/jungian/Dostoyevskian' judgements only serve to attract the financial support of his young lobsters, so that his mentally challenged daughter won't have to work a day in her life

>>13301600
>when do you think it is reasonable to intervene on the worldview?
This largely depends on the therapist's reference theory, classic CBT has great focus on the content of cognition and their effect on well being. An assumption of Beck's model is that it's not events themselves that cause suffering but rather interpretation of them. So it uses several ways to give the patient the tools to assess whether his beliefs are worth holding, realistic or helpful. In general a psych, regardless of his therapy style will never tell you to change your belief, but it will really make you reflect on them

>Do you normally accept most claims and if so, what's a positive test on pathology? Is it simply a case of it interfering with your day to day life and bringing about suffering?

There are multiple criteria (length of the problem, severity, perceived suffering and so on). Its a bit long to discuss desu, but I believe some questionnaires give a lot of good info to evaluate. Of course they are not the only thing to consider.

>>13300432
As in you're doing the doctorate? I had been considering that long-term, but it seems too depressing as a day-to-day job. Are there any non-depressing areas in psychology? Educational? Organisational is too dull for my liking.

>>13301574
>Citation needed.
His withdrawal on victimhood in light of holocaust butthurt.
>>13301589
Crazy Like Us, Ethan Watters.
It has more than just schizophrenia, but the fact that Western medicine has the worst outcomes for schizophrenics is an open secret. There are many different theories as to why, and it's probably a variety of factors on both sides.

>>13301574
>>baaasedence is literally so cool guisee
>going along with the scientific method was a shit idea.
you mean taking a shit ton of pills for the rest of your life?

>>13301257
This is why I don't go to therapy. My parents gaslighted me and letting yet another person shape my sense of identity is the last thing I need.

>>13301634
In my country (Italy) we do bachelor>master(become clinical psych)>psychotherapy school or PhD.
I want to do psychotherapy school. The daily emotional fatigue scares me too a bit, but I did a work experience and I liked it. I still don't know if it's gonna break me long term, so far I feel like giving it a go tho.

>>13301632
Thank you. Do you reckon pathology is starting to increasingly reside in the vicinity of philosophy (not necessarily formal, more like 'worldviews') more than in any other time in history? People examine, scratch that; people consider philosophy more than ever before, whether it's through politics, ethics, metaphysics, etc and all of these are becoming more integrated and cemented into our identities. Do you think the net result has been good so far, or is there data showing otherwise whether inconclusive, or bad? My intuition is obviously for the latter, but curious if you've ever looked at this. Lit on this would also be appreciated.

>>13301608
I have no way to know this so I can't respond

>>13301632
Why is wellbeing good and suffering bad? What if increasing suffering would lead to great insight for the patient?

>>13301659
I can't answer this. But I don't believe that knowing more about philosophy would hurt anyone. Now, superficial understanding or distortion is another thing.

>>13301698
>why is wellbeing good and suffering bad?
I'm not trying to convince anyone about that.

>What if increasing suffering would lead to great insight for the patient?
There is a thing called depressive realism look it up. It has no solid data supporting it tho, iirc

But in metacognitive therapy by Wells theres is a thing called positive metacognitive beliefs about rumination. The belief that suffering is a source of insight and thus you need to continue ruminating is not helpful because it tends to maintain the vicious circle. You can understand from experiences regardless. Look it up I can't source now.

>>13301698
>think that suffering is good
>overdo it
>become suicidal
wow great success, much wellbeing

>>13301757
Then don't overdo it

>>13301810
see
>>13301736
>vicious cycle

Thinking that suffering is good is a very slippery, dangerous slope

>>13301643
You should work on your reading comprehension. The point is that Jung ignored the scientific method and went along with mysticism

>>13301944
Different Anon. I don't think psychology should be heavily scientific anyway. Psychiatry, sure, but not psychology. There will always be some form of mysticism in psychology anyway. Jung just took it further.

>>13301643
Implying modern Freudians use pills. Finding proof for theory in neurology is what I mean by going with the scientific method. Mysticism just ruined its chance of being legitimate in the modern world. There's a reason Freud made Jung fuck off

>>13300403
Probably. It's a poor substitution for confessing your sins/struggles to someone who actually cares about you.

>>13300432
>clinical psych
So what's your disorder that you refuse to get diagnosed?

>>13301985
Priests only "care" about you because they want to get into heaven and please God. It's self-interest all the way down. No one will ever truly care about you except yourself—especially psychologists/psychiatrists.