/lit/ - Literature

>bans polygamy to accomodate political correctness

>>13288344
Utah would’ve never become a state had the church not transitioned away from polygamy. The Edmunds-Tucker act already crippled the church’s financials and they were about to have all of their assets federally seized right after the US government already broke up the Council of 50 and the old ZCMI. The nice thing about Mormon theology is that it’s adaptable to material conditions, and with the polygamy thing it’s consistent because JS said himself that polygamy was necessary only to build the church. The church still believes in having multiple partners, for example the current president of the church’s wife died and he got remarried. Mormon theology would say that both of those wives are still sealed to him in the afterlife.

>>13288344
so less political corectness and more like the US government was sending assassins to kill John Taylor and destroy the church. Even in the 1880’s the feds still weren’t over the Utah War debacle

>being so autistically burger that you have to rewrite history to say that Jesus went to America

>>13288359
>The nice thing about Mormon theology is that it’s adaptable to material conditions
Yikes

>>13288390
Meaning that Mormons believe God himself is constantly coaching the living prophet and instructing then what to do for their particular time and people

>>13288384
Why would Jesus not visit his children in the America’s?

>>13288402
did he also visit his children in Western and Northern Europe? China? Japan? Siberia? Oceania? Africa?

>>13288425
Yes, because the apostles spread Christianity all over the old world. Mormons believe that Jesus personally came to spread his doctrine to the New World since the apostles couldn’t really travel there, but the Nephites wiped themselves out around 400AD and the Lamanites fell into paganism or whatever. Of course, things didn’t go as planned in the old world either because the church basically says the Nicene Creed was the end of the legitimate priesthood in the old world, though it’s worth mentioning that in addition to John the Beloved Jesus made 3 Nephites immortal as well so they could keep the priesthood on the earth.

>>13288444
btw I’m not a believing Mormon but I can answer most questions about Mormon theology and common criticisms because I’ve researched it all.

>>13288444
>because the apostles spread Christianity all over the old world
They only breached so far into Africa but we're talking about Mormonism here obviously supposed Jews in America are a more worthy cause of conversion than black people.

>>13288809
Yeah basically before Israel fell to Babylon at around 600 BC God wanted there to be new home for a large group of Jews, so he sent Lehi and his family to the “promised land.” St. Thomas got pretty far into China and India though. I forgot which apostle went to Africa.

>>13288809
Also God wanted there to be “another testament” of Jesus Christ which is why he had Jesus visit America and Mormon compile the records of his ancestors, but that shitty plan fell through because all of the Nephites who were supposed to relay the message to the old world that Jesus had visited them as well and confirm his legitimacy all died off. Some Mormon professors like to point to Quezacotl as a description of Jesus when he visited the Americas and use the anecdote of the conquistadors visiting Mexico to find that the natives thought they were the return of Quezacotl because of their white skin as proof that the Book of Mormon is true.

>>13288359
Convenient how the church can receive messages from God on request that say they shouldn't practice polygamy anymore.

>>13288329
Mormonism is so fucking Burgerpunk

>>13289503

Not at all.

>>13289389

Mormons believe that revelation is ongoing and that the Lord directs his church through the current prophet. Of course it's going to seem "convenient." The prophet literally places these concerns before the Lord and seeks guidance on contemporary matters. And there has understandably been a focus on keeping the church alive and continuing its growth.

I'll never understand why anti-Mormon critics, most of whom know very little about Mormonism and have never looked at it from an insider's perspective, think that their criticisms hold any weight whatsoever. It's, like, you--i.e., most critics--don't even understand Mormonism's basic ethos.

It's a restorationist form of Christianity that sees the Lord's church continually unfolding across time under the guidance of the Lord as well as certain authorities acting on behalf of the Lord. Modern-day prophecy and revelation, alongside an open scriptural canon, mean that things are completely fixed or rigid in the LDS chuch's beliefs and practices.

>>13288425

Maybe. Probably.

>>13290376

things are not completely fixed or rigid*

I pray that anyone reading this thread that unironically practices this false religion comes to the true Catholic faith. It's sad because all of the most upstanding people I've met IRL were all Mormons.

>>13289503
Not Burgerpunk but definitely Burger. It's the definite American religion which is why it works so well here.

I hope someone writes a Mormon Epic poem about America

>>13290389
>true faith
pope cuck announces gays are gods chosen and literally sucks the toes of illegal immigrant rapists

>"false faith"
"all of the most upstanding people I've met IRL were all Mormons"

Gee, really makes you think.

>>13289389
Yeah it’s convenient because God wanted his church to continue on the earth and anti-polygamy legislation threatened to destroy it, so being God he changed his policy for the church to follow.
>>13290948
I’m working on a book that is semi-fictional that observes the life of a woman who is born in Nauvoo and witnesses the exodus to the Great Basin, the Utah War and the rise and fall of the Kingdom of Deseret

Do you know what the best question I've ever asked is?

>What are the chances that I am alive right now to experience all this? What are the chances that my consciousness exists now, as opposed to, say, a thousand years ago?

I guess the chances are pretty close to 0.

This question forever changed my understanding of the nature of time and opened the door to the deeper psychological nature of reality.

Are we in Revelation?

>>13292292
>>"false faith"
>"all of the most upstanding people I've met IRL were all Mormons"
>Gee, really makes you think.
implying that righteousness can't exist without faith in the correct religion. looks like someone never read the Divine Comedy

>>13292616
What is this new age Gnostic garbage and why is it in a Mormonism thre-
Oh wait, Mormonism is also new age Gnostic garbage, my bad, carry on

>>13292642
k, well I'll be righteous over here, you can keep trying to be righteous while following what almost amounts to the antichrist.

Seems to me like the Catholics have rejected God like the jews did. I think you've lost any high ground.

>>13292679
not actually Catholic by the way, please find a way to say that Lutherans are satanists to make the insult specific to me

>>13292660
cyn·i·cal
/ˈ
>sin
ək(ə)l/

>>13292660
Mormonism and Gnosticism have jack shit to do with each other

>>13292716
Why would I care what a Lutheran thinks? I'm not OP but I'm LDS. Catholics have a bigger "claim" to be most historically accurate, but in practice they're faggots. LDS is newer mythos and less grounded but are the most based form of Christianity. So whatever man, hope your Lutheran church is still full with cute white virgin girls that want to raise families, because mine is. ;^)

I don't know why, but I have always had a fasination with Mormonism. It's theology, history, community, all very interesting to me. For a time I considered becoming Mormon, but I decided to become Catholic in the end. I would say my interest is like that of many moderns who have a renewed interest in Gnosticism I guess. Any good books on Mormon theology?

>>13293317
A Marvelous Work and a Wonder

>>13289503
Mormonism is the opposite of Burgerpunk.

>>13292769
based schizo anon

>>13293739
I don't think you know what that word means

>>13293979
well, literally nothing in your post made sense or was even relevant to the post you replied to, so I just took the safer route and assumed schizophrenia instead of retardation :)

>>13293982
are YOU retarded? There's an entire chain of conversation here:

>>13290389
>>13292292
>>13292642
>>13292679
>>13292716
>>13292769

>>13294028
that's what makes it so baffling that your post was such a non sequitur. you'd think that with so much precedent it couldn't possibly be derailed, but no, there are zero points in >>13292769 that are relevant to anything that came before. it's actually impressive how schizophrenic it is, hence why I called you based

>>13294062
Honestly, I think you just couldn't follow the conversation properly. Possibly upgrade your brain's RAM

>>13294169
here's a summary of the conversation
>Mormons are wrong but at least they're decent :)
>they're decent because they're correct
>>implying you can't be decent and incorrect at the same time
>keep following the Pope, Cathfag
>I'm actually Lutheran
>hai gais so laik momons r so new an d hip :D fuk u were cool :DD ur grls r ugly and dont wanna mak e babby unlike my cult XDDDDDD

>>13294191
If I didn't see it with my own eyes, Id have a hard time believing you unironically typed that. Is that what your brain interprets the world as? I think you might have been projecting your own mental illness.

> please find a way to say that Lutherans are satanists to make the insult specific to me
Reply: "Why would I care what a Lutheran thinks?" addressing his request

>Catholic is "true faith"
Reply: "Catholics have a bigger "claim" to be most historically accurate, but in practice they're faggots. LDS is newer mythos and less grounded but are the most based form of Christianity"

Positive assertion of the pragmatic "correctness" of LDS: Traditions still intact (virgin girls for procreation) with the implication that Lutheran church is just as cucked, if not more, as cathloic mass

>>13294191
>they're decent because they're correct
is not what I said nor implied in that post. Damn dude, I can't take your assbergers any more. Peace and good luck

>>13294430
imagine rationalizing this goddamn much and thinking you don't have autism
>I can't take your assbergers any more
why do autists always accuse others of autism when they're called on their bullshit?

>>13288329
If you want to understand Mormonism, read this:
Journal of Discourses. volume 10, page 110.

Mormons are so anxiously obsessed with being accepted as christians that they I guarantee you in 20 years they will have openly homosexual men, women, and trannies in the priest hood (just like they gave up polygamy and the nigger ban, which is okay because god changed his mind), they won't even allow the word "mormon" to be used anywhere, in any context, and they'll be partnering with Coca Cola to put indio immigrants in every single city and town in America and it's all because mormons literally can't sleep at night because somewhere in Alabama a baptist doesn't think they are real christians.

The LDS church had an opportunity to be truly revolutionary but instead they chose to cuck out and make consumerism their god, just like every other religion, ideology, and creed with anything resembling success. Mormonism is a product, and they are always seeking the lowest common denominator.

>>13290389

>It's sad because all of the most upstanding people I've met IRL were all Mormons.

Hmm. I wonder why that is.

>>13292642

MOST upstanding.

MOST.

>>13296274

I mean, Mormons were a persecuted minority. The governor of Missouri issued an extermination order against them. And there's still rampant anti-Mormon prejudice everywhere; it's socially acceptable, even in Progressive circles. So I wonder why Mormons are sensitive and want to fit in . . .

>>13290376
I'm assuming you're a believing Mormon? Aren't you troubled by the fact that so much of the scripture seems directly contradicted by archaeological and historical evidence? At least the OT is old enough that we can't really speak to most of what random desert tribes were doing at the time (though the Egyptian stuff is already pretty well debunked).

t. attending sacrament meeting this Sunday

>>13296821
The problem isn't Mormons themselves being normal persons who like to be liked, the problem is when this filters into your "direct Revelations from God", which then exposes your religion for the sham that it is.

>>13297101
>>13296821
>>13296274
The church is subject to the destructive progressive oligarchs as much as anything else. The membership is mostly still based though the social shit is leaning left, but it's 15 years behind the average. (which is crazy considering how much changed in 15 years)

>>13296795
hahaha, look at you, still desperately clinging to that post i made a while ago about you heretics being upstanding. their status as upstanding had nothing to do with their false faith, but being anything but a tool of the Deceiver is foreign to you huh. i guess that comment is obsolete, you've proven to be the counterexample

>>13297219
Not the same guy. >>13296795
I'm the one that originally had that convo

>>13296274
This is dumb, Mormons are fairly insular in practice and the only reason they harp on the Christian thing is the missionary efforts, especially with prots calling us satanists and shit. The term “Mormon” was originally used in a derogatory way but we reclaimed it very early on. The current president of the church has been adamant about using the colloquial term Mormon for years now but he got btfo’d hard by the last two prophets so he stayed quiet until he was in charge

>>13297009
A lot of surface level criticisms and apologetics are equally bad
CES letter is pure garbage

Mormonism is one of those topics that gets more interesting and less black & white the more you look into it

>>13298782
*about not using

>>13296274
>The LDS church had an opportunity to be truly revolutionary but instead they chose to cuck out and make consumerism their god, just like every other religion, ideology, and creed with anything resembling success.
I agree to a degree. My main complaint with LDS is that they are not adamant enough in their differences and are trying for mainstream appeal (who will never accept them anyway). Like everyone else they're getting hit hard by the globo-homo-gay-plex. Though they are arguably the most trad group in the west atm.

Also, 100% fuck trying to convert 3rd world niggers. They don't have the brain function to understand the concept of god let alone have money to tithe. Egalitarianism is more of a protestant thing and batshit retarded.

>>13297009
>contradicted by archaeological and historical evidence
Once I realized they were lying about gas chambers I unironically stopped believing in history. That shit is fake as fuck and 100% agenda driven. I understand for many people the "history" thing is still a compelling argument. Same with the "science" arguments against religion, which is equally gay.

inb4 "yikes you don't believe in science? aren't you typing on a computer"

>>13298968
Schizo be gone

Go to a real cult like Scientology

>>13299495
you're not even trying :(

>>13298790
Can you be more specific?

>>13298968
Regardless of the specifics you've cited, don't you think it's a little premature to dismiss an entire field of study because of some number of bad actors? You won't be imprisoned for questioning and investigating Amerind archaeology.

>>13299923
>You won't be imprisoned for questioning and investigating Amerind archaeology.
Ah but the implication there is that there is archaeology and history that you will be imprisoned for questioning. Which proves the agenda. I'm not denying that a good bit of history is largely accurate, however I think it's near impossible to determine which parts are. Thus, it's only as useful as you want it to be.

Are Mormons human? Seriously, you can't believe this shit.

>>13298968
>ying about gas chambers

The Leuchter report is pseudoscience. But you are mormon so you have no braincells. Educate yourself.

>>13296821
Get the fuck over yourselves you fucking pussies. You're not special. You're followers of a cultist who at the end of his life was sick of his own people due to their small-mindedness, ignorance, and inability to conduct any kind of introspection. Your persecution complex is just fucking pathetic, considering how powerful the church is. You have your own god damn state. If you niggerlovers had any balls you would just secede. But no. Your shrewd prophets prefer to just coast along hand in hand with the USG, making all the progressive change necessary to maintain your tax exempt status and nepotistic tendencies. The LDS church is not oppressed in any fucking way, shape or form. You people worshop mammon and grovel at the feet progressivism.

>>13300125
You're right! It all definitely happened that way. In fact I believe 100% of the official documents. Even the ones that talk about roller coasters into ovens and jews being masturbated to death. 100% it all happened that way. I know it's true because I saw it on the History channel in between episodes of ancient aliens and pawn stars.

>>13296274
>I guarantee you in 20 years they will have openly homosexual men, women, and trannies in the priest hood
They did a pretty good job in the 90s of future-proofing against that possibility with The Family: A Proclamation to the World, which says gay is not OK and neither are trannies. They can't just flop on either of those positions now.

>>13300788
Whatever the current prophet says overrides anything past prophets said and Mormons are not to question the prophet.

>>13300791
While this is true on matters of policy, when you present something as eternal truth (as in The Family: A Proclamation) you can't just go back later and say you were wrong about it without causing a real crisis of confidence. A change of that magnitude would split the church into pieces, if not totally destroy it.

>>13290389
>true faith
your religion believes 3 = 1, and is therefore objectively and provably false

>>13300068
If you’ve been taught it your whole life and you grew up in a town where 100% of your peers were also Mormon then I don’t see why not

We even had religious classes in public school
t. Farmington, Utah

>>13300803
>doesnt know geometry