/lit/ - Literature

>>13275143
Skip the useless catalog catalog ships and heroes. Literally ripped them out of my copy

>>13275143
the most testosterone-raising book you'll ever read
diomedes is the best character
achilles can be seen as a man who hold his honour in ancient greek times or a selfish gay man in modern standards

The Iliad and Odyssey exalt the nobility of Honor.

The very first word of the Iliad is “RAGE.” The “RAGE” of Achilles when his honor is violated and his rightful prize and love is taken from him by his very own commander.

Right here we see Man versus State, as Achilles is the superior warrior, and as he takes all the risks, he ought get the reward. That is the Natural Law of Zeus, for after Achilles Natural Rights are violated and Achilles quits, Zeus sees to it that the Greeks begin to lose, as Zeus’s will was done.

Long before Atlas Shrugged in Rand’s cheap novel, Achilles quit the Greek army.

Homer shows that women who honor their commitments, like Penelope, lead to happy endings. Women who disregard their commitments, like Helen, lead to War.

Achilles quits for the sake of Honor, refuses to return when offered millions times more prizes, arguing that once honor is taken away, mere money/prizes cannot buy it back. He also reasons that all the wealth in the world is not worth him losing his life in an arena where his honor was taken away. When offered honors and awards, Achilles states, “I receive my honor from Zeus, not from corrupt Kings."

And too Achilles returns to fight for Honor, so as to avenge the death of his friend Patroculus, knowing full well he will die.

Simply put, Achilles is a man who lives and dies not for mere prizes, nor perks, nor tenure, nor titles, nor money, but for honor, and honor alone.

A few hundred years later, Socrates would invoke Achilles while facing death at his own trial. Socrates was offered perks and prizes and life if he would only recant his teachings that “Virtue does not come from money, but money and every lasting good of man derives form virtue.”

But then Socrates asked, “Would Achilles back down from battle if bribed by physical wealth?” Socrates reasoned he would be dishonoring the Great Achilles if he ever recanted his teachings.

>>13275143
its based as fuck

>>13275164
>catalog of ships
>based

trojan war was stupid and helen was at egypt the whole time but they didn't believe the trojans when they said that so they sacked it and made an epic poem to cover their failure

Herodotus told me this so it MUST be true

>>13275167
its my favorite part

>>13275171
Autism. have sex

>>13275167
The people that don't like the catalog don't know or care about Greek history at all (not necessarily a bad thing). For those that are interested, it is an interesting part.

>>13275191
No, the ones who like it are retarded

>>13275154
first sentence is an invocation of the goddess.

>>13275149
you can also rip out all the battle scenes without offence to homer

>>13275170
>Herodotus told me this so it MUST be true
>implying Herodotus gets stuff wrong aside from the occasional translation error
You aren't learning

>>13275161
Underrated post, I've tied to finish the iliad for a while, but now I will. Thanks fren.

I loved it. But it did have a lot of "boring" parts. However the rest of it greatly exceeds extraordinary art.
My favorite character is Hector.

>>13275672
Even the Greeks didn’t believe Herodotus. Thucydides dabs all over him in the first book.

>>13275143
Read The Liliad instead

>>13275161
fantastic and eloquent overview, anon.

>>13275167
>not autistically counting the number of ships as they go
>not feeling the sense of proportion being cast aside and stakes getting ridiculously high
>not imagining all the local colors they must have hanged to recognize the ships from one locality from the others
Cringe and bluepilled. Low test and low iq.

>>13275191
>catalog of ships
its cool in a certain context. when i was reading it i just wanted to get the story. perhaps if i wanted to go back afterwards, itll probably be cool.

It’s good until the funeral games of Patroclus, after the chariot races when Achilles decides to take the prize away from the guy who came in first place and give it to the guy in last “because he is a good man”, utterly ruining the entire story and Achilles’ character for a practically throw away line - until he is challenged on that decision and changes his mind and then none of it matters anymore. Homer dropped the ball there

>>13275149
this
also the description of whales in moby dick? pure trash, I used the pages to make origami whales

>>13277494
but what about the scene with priam and achilles
most kino chapter of literature

>>13275154
You mean sarpedon is best character

>>13275149
I liked the catalogues :(

>>13277494
he forfeits his prize. homer makes it very obvious achilles sympathizes with antilochus

>>13275161
Reread this and enjoyed this. Solid ass fucking post anon.

consider the following
>be ancient greece inhabitant
>not from a big city
>athenians_fucking_shits.plucking
>listen to the iliad sung one time when I was a kid
>this year for the spring festival we're paying some aedas to sing the iliad
>S P H O D R Ó S
>everyone is in the theatron
>the song begins
>agamenon what the fuck
>everyone is expectant
>the catalogue
>our "knows Hades where the fuck is" region is named
>explosion of applause and cheers
>listen to the complete song during several days
>happy knowing someone from this shitty place did great things time ago
>be proud

"Iliad" is based on actual historical individuals and events. Its narratization was inspired by the electromagnetic contacts with Mars and their aftermaths that transcurred in seventh and eighth centuries BCE.

>>13280481
>S P H O D R Ó S
lol
yeah this is why. same reason for all the ___ son of ___ and grandson of ___, in the battle scenes, he'd credit the ancestors of his hosts

>>13279460
Oh 100%. That chapter is what the whole poem is about

>book 23
>the part where the ghost of patroclus visits achilles

>>13282164
not really

>>13275143
Brad Pitt is Achilles.

>>13283020

y'all need to read Memorial by Alice Oswald. Referred to as an 'excavation', it pretty much just poetically lists all the deaths in the Iliad and shows just how fucking violent and tragic the story is.

>>13280481
Exactly. That's the whole point of the catalogue. It's actually making me read that sperges with no interest in the actual history apparently rip out of the pages because they're too stupid and lazy to read a bunch of names.

>>13275161

He doesn't argue that when honour is taken away prizes can't buy it back. When Odysseus brings him the gifts Achilles laments about the futility of glory in the face of death.

He returns to avenge Patroclus but he doesn't do that for honour or glory or kleos, he does it out of rage against Hector and love for Patroclus.

Stop using the word honour. Kleos means glory. Achilles isn't honourable.

>>13283048
really? but there's much less fighting in the iliad than people generally think

>>13283202
quite right.
that is a pasta though

>>13283020
fact

>>13275143
It's not mythology. This is real history being covered up by rootless elites.

>>13283048
>books by women

>>13283680