/lit/ - Literature

>>13274625
I have never read the greatest graphic novel of all time.

>>13274625
I actually have this but haven't read it, are u memeing or not?

>>13274625
>more jew kvetching
No thanks.

>>13274636
Nope, it's legitimately good. The relationship between the author and his father who is telling the story, the art style, and the deconstruction of its own metaphors were all exceedingly enjoyable to read.

>>13274687
Alrighty then I'll give it a read sometime but have better books to read at the moment

The story, the concept and execution might be good, and it was well received when I came out, but I donno about “greatest”
Moore, Miyazaki Waterson, all use the medium far better. Maus’ look is supposed to be grim and art brut, so ugly, so whatever. To each their own

Not /lit/ though

>>13274698
Die tripfag. Stop polluting the board with your subhuman filth.

>>13274625
meh. "then my wife killed herself" who cares old man

>>13274636

It's ok. The relationship between the son and the father is notably interesting. There's plenty of stuff better than it though.

>>13274698

I honestly have no idea why people love Calvin & Hobbes so much.

>>13274625
>some shit about nazis and le holocaust

>>13274740
It hooked me from the start and has been a permanent part of my childhood memories ever since.
Maybe it’s mostly just a gen-x thing. Maybe you’re a snob

>>13274625
We read it in school. I was enthralled by its "evil" atmosphere even though I sensed that I was being propagandized. I guess it did what it was intended to do.

>>13274698
Fucking kill yourself, attention whoring tranny.

>>13274641
>>13274744
These

>>13274625
That doesn't look like big nate

>>13274625
love the symbolism of jews being pest animals and hitler being a beloved servant of man

>>13274625
I too enjoy works of fiction.

>>13274816
>symbolism of jews being pest animals
Yes exactly this. that is literally the fucking point you mongol.

>>13274834
>mongol
Just say retard, tourist. No one will downvote you.

>>13274834
>you mongol.
Wow, racist

>>13274802
underrated

>>13274625
>graphic novel

>>13274840
I like mongol better because it implies retard and demeans asians.

>>13274698
>it was well received when I came out
>when I came out
freud

>>13274872
Kind of outdated. The asians are bug people, intelligent but conformist and uncreative. We should be using negro to refer to retards.

>>13274783

Nah, I just always liked Peanuts way more. More simplistic but far more charming and endearing. Calvin annoyed me even as a kid.

Wrong.

>>13275891
It has its' moments but you need a fucking electron microscope just to read the damn thing.

>>13274625
Very much enjoyed the first one, and just picked up the secpnd for three bucks

>>13274625
*Blocks Your Path*

>>13275047
He was too real for you. Well, I always liked Hobbes best. I thought one was supposed to.

>>13275913
Actually based

>>13274625
>dood the Holocaust but their rats
>the Germans are cats btw geddit?
Reminder they put pictures in to keep low IQ people and children interested.

>>13276404
complexity =/= quality

>>13274625
Watchmen
>thread

>>13276404
There’s pseud and then there’s you.

>>13274625
Jews admit to being responsible for the black death

>>13274744
Yes. You don't have to be /pol/ to see that the Holocaust trope is being pushed for political reasons. A day doesn't go by without someone or something getting compared to "da evil naazis". For this to work the memory, or rather the Jewish and Anglo-American war-propaganda image, of the nazis has to be freshly ingrained in the population.
If the Holocaust™ did happen - and yes it is a historical event and therefore is subject to critical historical investigation - it wasn't the worst thing that happened in the past. Not in world history, nor in European history.

>>13274872
German?

>>13274872
The term is 'mongo,' not 'mongol.' You tremendous fucking spastic.

>>13275891
Oh, you reminded me. I loved that comic back in the day, I read it all the time online back in round about 2011. Great little book. I remember some guy on youtube tried to psychoanalyse it and say that Jimmy was a 'misogynist' who oversexualised women and that he was unable to make relationships with them due to childhood abuse and abandonement from his Father. What do you think about such an assertion?

>>13274744
>>13274799
>>13276786

>>13276811
what? mongol/mongoloid is used to mean stupid/barbaric

wtf is mongo

>>13275913
i hate dr manhattan so much. he's supposed to be a super genius but talks like he has the intellect of a soccer mom.

>>13276849

>>13274636
It's really good, I'm usually an anti kike.

I really recommend *Understanding Comics* by Scott McCloud. Part of NPR's top 100 graphic novels of all time, it helps you understand/analyze the best works of graphic art. All the graphic novels in there would be a good place to start.

>>13276961
>NPR
sounds biased

>>13276867
'Mongol' or 'Mongoloid' is a racial and evolutionary term for Eastern Asiatics. 'Mongo' is an alternative term for 'Retard' in British slang.

>>13277122
nobody speaks british

>>13274924
>The asians are bug people, intelligent but conformist and uncreative
b-but hitler called the japanese honorary aryans

>>13274625
neo palestinians in small hats have never produced any good work, not even mediocre work, it's all agit prop and you fell for it like they expect you too.

once you see it, you'll understand

>>13274625
>Genre fiction

>>13274625
Just call it a comic, fuckface.

>>13274625
>graphic novel
You will never see a naked woman.

Maus is half propaganda half woe is me/we live in a society bullshit

Miracleman is ten times better

It's good but it doesn't change the fact that Hitler did nothing wrong.

>>13274625
Beautiful Darkness is factually the greatest graphic novel.

>>13278962
Looks great

>>13279422
The art is beautiful and the writing is excellent and allows for lots of interpretations while still conveying a pretty unique tone.

To my expand on my earlier point, Maus is literally Art Spiegelman crying about his scummy grandpa's shitty life mixed with propaganda of "nazis and europeans who didn't fellate jewish dick are 100 percent evil."

Barefoot Gen is a great example of "historical tragic memoir" done right because the main character is actively dealing with adversity, you can relate to him, and it isn't used as a cudgel to browbeat present day whites into submission

>>13279887
cringe

*shits on u*

>>13279958
*sharts on you*

>>13274625
it's good but it gets free, undeserving holocaust bonus points from people

>>13280071
source, mein shart?

>>13277584
>>13277259
why are people this triggered over the term graphic novel? it's just the name of a publishing format, it means the comic book is a big volume instead of a bunch of issues. nobody actually thinks a graphic novel is not a comic book.

>>13277122
"Mongo" in British slang comes from "mongoloid", because that is what people with Downs syndrome were called in the past. It literally means "Mongol-like", you mongol mongoloid.

>>13280158
Sharaz De by Sergio Toppi. It's based on the Arabian Nights, I'm pretty sure you can find it online.

>>13274625
>>>/co/

>>13279887
>antisemite
>weeb
checks out

>>13274698
Honestly Manga is so full of good shit (Seinen only you fags, no shonen) that you could probably make a huge list of manga that are better than Maus

>>13279915
Muh lolocaust biography which totally happened guise

>>13280433
some Shonen is good (hxh, yu yu hakusho, fist of the north star, devilman etc.) but yeah, Maus is pozzed propaganda

>>13280282
keep enjoying shitty propaganda comics I guess, I'll be here reading good stuff and not being a shill

>>13280433
Name some, only PunPun comes to mind desu. I find that most mangaka are too concerned with making something "cool" and don't care much about making something meaningful. Miura from Berserk comes to mind.

>>13280468
Devilman was pretty fucking meaningful, same with Shamo

>>13280468
Jojo: Steel Ball Run is solid as fuck too, probably the best out of all jojo parts (though personally I like them all)

Berserk is good for what it is (dark fantasy)

>>13278962
>>13279440
Not him but thanks Anon, that was a nice little comic. Really worthwhile.

>>13280433

An entire medium versus 1 comic isn't fair though

>>13276404
His use of the funny animal genre is a comment on both Nazi propaganda and the history of comic books.

>>13276871
He is written by a pseud, what can you really expect

>jews are rats
>hitler was a cat

Makes sense.

>>13276871
>>13283040
The whole point of the character is that he's a nerdy dork who chances upon divinity. Of course he talks like a soccer mom, the juxtaposition is obviously very deliberate...

>>13280433
>you could probably make a huge list of manga that are better than Maus


You literally couldn't though. There are barely any great manga. There are actually more high quality anime then there are manga, due to the medium attracting more ambitious people. You'd think there would be tons of solid mangaka, but the format of the typical series and how its published gobbles people up into serialized meandering nonsense.

why are there no books on the gypsy genocide during ww2?

>>13283116
Gonna have to agree, there are lots of good manga but it's very rare for manga to be exemplary like Maus or Watchmen. It's not even due to the strength of the medium imo, just due to the limited scope of most mangaka, the brutal deadlines and the demands of the market place. In general manga tends to be better than "graphic novels" or comics but the absolute best comics are, more often than not, better than the best manga.

>>13283124
No one likes gypsies.

>>13274744
Correct, it's totally played out. It's not even interesting as an example of the moral failures of materialism (look to communism for that), which is of course, far more interesting, as those failures were driven by impulses most of humanity can understand.

>>13281770
No problem, I enjoy recommending it to people because I think it is supremely underrated.

>>13280468
Take the lesbopill.

This one was my favorite. I read it as a teenager and can't attest to much other than it giving me a strong case of the feels.

>>13274625
That would be Nausicaä

>>13280516

kek

>>13283437
This was so depressing. She got a lot better after the success of the book, but apparently she's gotten worse again. I thinks she's just one of those people who just can't produce the happy chemicals.

>>13274625
>not Cerebus
You have to go back.

>>13274625
It's up there, but Watchmen takes the title of best graphic novel of all time. Nothing that I've read comes close, though I'm willing to follow any suggestions people here might have.

But Alan Moore is the sort of anally-retentive genius that's necessary to produce true greatness in a collaborative medium. His blending of dialogue, mage, layout and theme is sublime, unsurpassed. Just look at the first page, how the recitative connects with the image it heads, both linguistically and thematically. The Rorschach chapter that mirrors itself and ends on the The Tyger, by William Blake, so brilliantly that you can't tell if it inspired the story or if the story inspired a poem hundreds of years its senior. Manhattan's psychedelic view of time, Ozymandias' question to a god and the final dashing of his hope, the much-maligned but incredible pirate comic-in-a-comic.

I like Maus. It established new heights for comics and it came out of the comix movement instead of a supers company. It did things in the autobiographical genre that make it seem more actual than contemporary classics like Fun Home and Blankets. But it isn't Watchmen. A lot of comics would be the best comic ever if only Alan Moore had never run into LSD.

>>13284232
*image, though I like the serendipity of 'mage'.

>>13280468
Sunny is my favorite after Punpun. Nothing else comes to mind I'd say is better than Maus

>>13278962
Having read it 5 times I can certainly agree

>>13280194
>nobody actually thinks a graphic novel is not a comic book.
They actually do. "Graphic novel" is an elitist term used to separate ordinary comics from supposedly "serious" comics.

>>13283533
That fucking thing was depressive as fuck. I remember the ending vividly.

>>13284232
/thread

>>13283124
Because it'd be politically incorrect to portray it as the one thing the nazis got right.

>>13283437
Her recounting of the nectar of passion really spoke to me.

>>13274625
Should the cat be punished for hunting a mouse?

Should be mouse reflect on its role in the spread of disease? What did the author mean by this?

>>13284232
>though I'm willing to follow any suggestions people here might have.

I don't think that it is as good as Watchmen, but you should check out "Berlin", by Jason Lutes.

>>13276597
>disease carried by fleas, which get around through trade, is somebody's fault
the only reason I could see someone coming to this conclusion except out of pure stupidity is saying that the jews were responsible for the trade that brought the rats to europe. trade was a big thing in places that hadn't even heard of jews. anyway, here's a (you).

>>13280219
close but not exactly, a term for autism was "mongolian idiocy"

>>13285615
it was an old term for down syndrome because of their facial deformities

>>13285457
The universe is deterministic, it has loads of implications in ethics. It's basically the black pill in a nutshell.

>>13274744
based, it's fucking boring trash and milking the cow that can be summed up as
>war bad

>>13283124
up until extremely recently, nobody gave a fuck about gypsies, and they don't hold enough societal power to influence non-gypsies to care about their genocide like jews do. most europeans still at least dislike gypsies even if they try to hide it.

>>13285641
it's literally

white, european man bad keep devouring guilt products: the comic

Alan Moore's Swamp Thing is the only comic with any literary merit.

>>13285680
they're like jews but on the opposite end of the IQ spectrum

>>13285686
swamp gang rise up

also Xenozoic Tales/Cadillacs and Dinosaurs. Ecofash: the comic

>>13285686
The interstellar rape issue was especially good.

Which Corto Maltese book should I start with? Can someone give me an ISBN for it that doesn't have fucked up formatting?

>>13283533
No, I am sorry but that's the kind of story you need to grow out of.

>>13287743
What do you mean?

>>13274636
It's very good.
Ignore /pol/tards it's clearly a true story being told

Lets be 100% honest.
This is still the single highest piece of literature ever created in graphic form.

>>13283116

>>13274698
The irony of miyazaki is that he considered himself a mediocre comic artist even though nausicaä manga is his best work

>>13287794
Nice. I agree.

>>13276811
Mongo is skater lingo

>>13283533
It's a great book which I think >>13287743 needs to reread. I've read it many times over the years, and every time the subject matter changes. It started out as a book about an early relationship (Thompson is very interesting when talking about love; childish-like, almost), then I thought it was a künstlerroman culminating on the fully-formed artist, later on a story about a man growing out of his religion. I'm not so sure these days; I still think the religion aspect is the most important one, but the way Blankets blends archive theory and memory, his life story with a narrativist approach that puts you in the center of the protagonist's dilemmas is much more sophisticated than may at first appear. I talked about Fun Home earlier, and it's fascinating to compare the two approaches. Notice how Bechdel hardly ever lets her characters breathe and interact (I count one extended occasion) while Thompson-the-disembodied-voice is very often silent for long periods and the effect that has on the reader's perception of time in the comic.

>>13285511
Thank you kindly, anon. As soon as I find I'll check it out. If you haven't, check out Asterios Polyp. I only just recently read and was very impressed. The graphic narrative (as opposed to verbal) was ingenious and extremely well achieved.

Watchmen is the best graphicnovel

>>13290185
Graphic novels are pretty shit from the top down I agree.

>>13274625
I read it like 10 years ago, and the only thing I can remember is that one panel in which a Nazi guard is spanking the protagonist: brain, why do you this to me.
Pic related is the panel in question.

>>13276871
He's not supposed to be particularly, he's some ordinary guy that got lucky and received powers and knowledge beyond imagination.
That is a major plot point, with the antagonist knowing he stands no chance against those powers and instead exploiting the humanity of Dr Manhattan to get him out of the picture first, then persuade him of the correctness of their plan in the end.

>>13274744
don't cut yourself on that edge, coldsteel

>>13283175
The comic came out in the 80s. It was not as "played out" back then.

>>13291823
don't choke on your matzo ball soup there buddy