/lit/ - Literature

> a Sunni realizes Shia are the best behaved Muslims and have the biggest brains

Reminder that Salafist terrorism is 10x more idolatrous than anything the Shi'ites do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EYhGpInCt4

I am extremely distrustful of Nasr. For anyone who doesn't know this, Nasr is the informal head of the Traditionalist cult/school, or at least its mainstream academic branch, which is heavily involved in recruiting people in academia. Nasr's teacher was Schuon, the disgraced Maryamiya cult-leader notorious for his "vertical wives" scheme, letting him fuck the wives of his cult members, and for fondling their underage daughters too.

Worse than this though is that Nasr is simply a bad philosopher. He commonly gives his approval to outright surprisingly poor works of scholarship and philosophy simply because they are written by card-carrying Trads, most likely ones who "studied under him" directly like he did with Schuon (though one hopes not in the "vertical wives" sort of way..). Vertical wives or not, Nasr's stamp of approval is no guarantee of quality because he simply approves anyone who is a Traditionalist.

There are one or two Nasr disciples at every major faculty and they are generally known as cult-like, and occasionally predatory and belligerent about it.

>>13267055
No difference. You have to go back.

>>13267628
Nasr might be a retarded fed but he still produced the best one volume english translation of the Quran.

>>13267594
Shia dogs invented and memed the haram practice of suicide bombing, they started it, and Iran is the world capital of sex changes because of your clown tier fiqh

Salafis often don't accept any madhhab, the Ulema has issued numeroys fatwa against the murderers among them, may Allah curse them.

>>13267628
>Nasr is a Shi'ite

Yes I know, I said it in the OP

>>13267780
I'm not Muslim. Shia don't suicide bomb civilians. Sunnis ONLY kill civilians.

>>13267857
Iran cleared minefields by sending children over them and published newspaper articles about the showers of blood from the "glorious martyrs". The only reason Shia are so disproprtionate in terrorism is they are only 10% of Muslims

>>13267876
> regurgitating Donald Trump disinfo about Iran

The absolute state of Sunni butthurt.

>>13267055
It's amazing how Sunni scholars will admonish their follows not to read shia works and then Shia academics go out of their way to make sure their followers are aware of the information coming from all schools of thought and then somehow someone can still end up blaming Shias for pushing a historical narrative.

>>13267899
Where does Trump say that?

>>13267906
Shia by and large absolutel don't do that, they are unusual, just like that Sunni mufti who thinks Shia is a "fifth school" they had collaborating is unusual. Most Shia spread lies about the companions as fact

>>13267927
Sahih al-Bukhari etc is always referenced and discussed from my experience as a shia so I'm not sure what makes you believe that, I also wonder which companions you're referring too.

Umar, may Allah be pleased with him, and Abu Bakr, may Allah be pleased with him. Shia are also blind to the point of 33:40

>>13267978
>33:40
Are interpreting that too mean his family is not of Islam?

>>13267628
What's wrong with Traditionalists?

>>13268032
Not interpreting it to mean the Caliphate is not based on blood relation, that is why Allah, the glorified and most exalted, did not give him any sons.

Umar, may Allah be pleased with him, became Ali's, may Allah be pleased with him, son-in-law and Ali was religious advisor to Abu Bakr, may Allah be pleased with him, let's nor pretend the absurd stories about Umar have any substance. The only thing Fatimah, may Allah be pleased with her, was upset about is that her inheritance was taken, which was entirely sound as Muhammad's, may the peace and blessing's of Allah be upon him, property was synonymous with state property, he was custodian of all the commonweal.

>>13268049
Traditionalists who aren't Guenon are a meme.

>>13268188
this

coomaraswamy's good also but the rest are shit

>>13268084
>let's nor pretend the absurd stories about Umar have any substance.

Not the Shia, but why not?

Also, why the need to continually repeat that Muhammad and X, Y, companion be blessed? Is it not a given that they're blessed by God?

>>13268199
Because the Shia narrative that Umar and Aby Bakr essentially wanted to push Ali into powerless obscurity contradicts their continued close association with him and his involvement with their administration. You don't do that with someone you consider a serious political rival who would be willing to overthrow you.

Prayers for them are done because they asked for it and doing so is considered a good deed.

>>13268188
Meme in what way?

>>13268236
Most don't dilligently follow a religion, which Guénon considered very important. He believed Islam was the purest religion because it made such a sharp distinction between esoteric and exoteric, and the latter perfectly followed from the former and was required to attain it, and because both were imparted in their entirety by one prophet

>>13268293
What do you think of the criticism of Nasr because hes associated with Trad?

>>13267055
All of Islam is shit and Mecca will be nuked in the future, scum.

>>13268236
They're bad writers and thinkers and don't add much that Guenon hadn't already formulated. Someone told me Schuon was a great writer and I tried reading him and he's garbage.

>>13268304
>>>/pol/

You shouldn’t be allowed on this board you fucking idiot.

>>13268304
Salafists will probably blow it up themselves, as they are doing to every other holy site in Saudi Arabia.

>>13268310
Islam is a sick religion. Muhammad was a warlord that condoned of beheading. Moreover, Islam was imposed through crazy blood warfare. Islam is a code word for Arabic imperialism and expansionism.

>>13268321
There are stronger critiques of Islam than outing yourself as a weak cuck.

>>13268321
Blah blah blah shut up virgin, go cry somewhere else

>>13268328
>>13268335
All Muslims are depraved, and you are going to hell.

>>13268303
There are a lot of kuffar who are worthwhile experts on Islam. The Cambridge Companion to Classical Islamic Theology for example is an excellent work even though many of the contributors are kuffar. I don't subscribe to or like Nasr's Islam, but that doesn't mean he is not a worthwhile expert. Also traditionalists are not heterodox until they say all religions are equal. Islam is the purest faith, but others can go to heaven (according to an hadith related by Ibn Arabi, Muslims will make up 1/4-1/2 of those in paradise

>>13268348
And you’re never getting laid

>>13268349
Better to be kuffar than a disgusting, depraved Muslim like you.
>>13268357
Lol, is that the best you got? All you Muslims can think of rape is after all.

>>13268363
>can think of rape
can only think of rape*

>>13267876
oh yeah and Assad and Hussein were gassing their own people and tossing babies out of incubators too

>>13268348
I'm not Muslim, moron. I'm literally saying there are better ways to critique Islam than saying "Y-You're stronger than me, h-how dare you!"

>>13268321
>Islam is a sick religion. Muhammad was a warlord that condoned of beheading
Napoleon was a warlord too, yet venerated in the west (he venerated Muhammad, may Allah's peace and blessings be upon him)

What is wrong with the death penalty?

>>13268363
>>13268375
SEETHING

>>13268386
>Iran's Revolutionary Guards also used the T-55 tanks they had captured in earlier battles.[6] Basiji child-soldiers were sent forth to bodily clear the Iraqi minefields and allow the Revolutionary Guards to advance.[10] The Basij also launched human wave attacks on Iraqi positions, inspired before battle by tales of Ashura, the Battle of Karbala, and the glory of martyrdom. Sometimes an actor (usually an older soldier) would play the part of Imam Hossein and, on a white horse, gallop along the lines, providing the inexperienced soldiers a vision of "the hero who would lead them into their fateful battle before they met their God".[6] The "martyrs" had signed "Passports to Paradise" (as admission forms to the Basij were nicknamed), received a week of basic military training by the Revolutionary Guard, and were sent directly to the front lines.[6]

>>13268406
Ah yes, Wikipedia, the finest of sources. Start posting excerpts from the attack on the USS Liberty, it's delightful I'm sure.

>>13268389
Practically every real religion begins from a generally pacifistic man, not a fucking Bedouin savage.
>>13268391
Muhammad is burning in hell. I burn the Koran and I hope Mecca is nuked. I hope your entire line of descendants dies out. You are a disgusting Muslim, and I would shove your face into bacon and kick you to death.
>>13268401
All Muslims should be forced to convert or die.

>>13268424
HAHAHHA SEEEEEETHING

>>13268424
lmao you wouldn't do shit
the most your kind do is chimpout and shoot some women and children

>>13268435
>the most your kind do is chimpout and shoot some women and children
I mean, that's all Muslims do. I'm not Muslim, so it's unlikely I do that shit.
>>13268430
When Mecca is nuked, I would love to drink your tears.

>>13268424
"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send [or bring] peace, but a sword."

>>13268445
Bro stop you’re actually making me laugh irl hahahahah

>>13268424
>My version of abrahamism is better than your version of abrahamism

>>13268435
Better than keeping them in bags. Islamic women are just letterboxes

>>13268456
Point is, Muhammad was a crazy warlord. Buddha, Zarathustra, Jesus, Mairavara, Adi Shankara, and much more were all peaceful men in comparison the madness that was that Bedouin savage. All Muslims should just be massacred.
>>13268460
Will you be laughing when Mecca is nuked and Muslims who refuse to leave behind their vile ways are being massacred?

>>13268465
Islam is the worst out of Abrahamic religions. All religions have a tendency to fall back to their origin. Salafist/Wahhabist/ISIS madness is reflective of the genesis of Islam. Muhammad was a crazy warlord who condoned of beheadings. Compare him to Buddha, Zarathustra, Jesus, Maiarvara, Adi Shankara, and etc. The only good Muslim is a dead one. I think Muslims who refuse to leave behind their religion should be used in scientific experiments. I would love doing invasive experiments on their shit brains.

>>13268456
Lmao you are fucking retarded. It's so disingenuous to take one quote out of context when it was clearly metaphorical and the whole of Jesus's ministry was spent teaching peace

>>13268471
You’ve definitely got a penis barely larger than 3 inches my man

>>13268482
>Islam is the worst out of Abrahamic religions.
All Abrahamism is demon-worshiping and lies. To say one is worse than the other misses the point. It's all evil, it's all truth-denying, and it all must be eradicated from the world (Judaism especially).

>>13268423
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/03/books/review/the-iran-iraq-war-by-pierre-razoux.html

>>13268503
Well, I think Christianity is a wee-bit better than the other two, but I do not particularly follow it. Let me explain: Judaism is an ethnic supremacist religion which will always involve subverting the host nation; Islam is a war-mongering expansionist religion that will always involve subjugating others and forcing conversion; Christianity is more complex in that its true form is closer to Jainism, it had a more complex evolution and these Rapture-believing Zionists are objectively speaking not true to Christ's message.

I would love seeing both Jews and Muslims become dismembered and ripped apart though.

>>13268293
Guenon also said Arabs and Jews are too prone to thinking everyone else are idolaters and they confusing the symbols for the principles.

>>13268518
post CNN next, this is great

>>13268487
Except he didn't bring peace, but a sword leading to the apocalypse. Jesus ended cyclical time.

Don't be a brainlet. Read Henri Lammens if you want a good critique of Islam. Americans shouldn't be allowed on the internet.

>>13268518
you've got to be shilling me

>>13268543
My critique is simple. The way a religion begins is immensely important in that it defines the future trajectory of its development in many ways. It is very common for adherents to want "to go back to their roots". When a Muslim wants to go back to their roots, you better be scared. The roots of Islam are bloody conquest from a savage Bedouin.

>>13267055
>censors Shia and then doesn't censor in the same line
so this is the power of Islamic scholasticism

>>13268529
>Christianity is more complex in that its true form
Christians are the "that wasn't REAL christianity/real christianity has never been tried" of religions. It's pathetic. Did you ever consider that maybe christianity really is just a doomsday cult that worships a dead jew? Christianity has been equally subversive in its history as the jews have ever been. It changes forms to adapt to the times just like the jews do. And every single new evolution of it is taken as a priori being the perfect truth, unchanging, forever and ever, and all other wisdom teaching MUST be wrong and thus MUST be destroyed by any means necessary. Christianity puts pretty makeup on its lies and violence, but at its core it is still an evil semitic "religion" more concerned with petty material dominance than with anything holy.

>>13268541
>>13268549

That is not journalism per se, it is an article on a book

>>13268555
Sure but you're literally not going to convince a single Muslim with that logic.

All religions begin with violence. Violence is sacred. Christianity understands this better than any religion.

>>13268573
Who was Gautama Buddha violent against?

>>13268541
>>13268549
>literally a book review

THIS IS SHILLING WHY ARENT YOU POSTING ARTICLES FROM BREITBART

You’ve gotta be kidding me...

>>13268559
>more concerned with petty material dominance than with anything holy.
Not true for various Gnostic schools. Maybe true for Post-St. Augustine.
>>13268573
>All religions begin with violence.
No. This is factually wrong, brainlet.
>Violence is sacred.
No. Maybe to a dumb Muslim like you.
>Christianity understands this better than any religion.
From traditional accounts of Jesus, he was nowhere near as violent as Muhammad.

>>13268555
>outlaws the infanticide of girls, common there and then
>has due process that doesn't imvolve torture to get confession, unlike the civilized west at that time
>says masters must dress and feed their slaves equal to themselves while the west treated them literally like animals

Savagery indeed

>>13268584
>Not true for various Gnostic schools
Gnostics are just confused. It's like they heard a few fragments of platonist teachings and then just went buck wild and ran with them past any point of reason or sanity. Gnosticism doesn't make anyone wiser, improve their life, or explain the world at all.

>>13268586
>kills apostates
>does not tolerate "idol-worshiping"
>cannot even coexist with Buddhists
>has a history of culling practically every religion
>has creepy forms of barbaric punishment for theft (cutting off hands), infidelity, etc. Now, I don't like infidelity, but I am against beheading the women, you know?
>has one of the most bloodiest histories out of all world religions
>still has slavery in Gulf region like UAE/KSA

>>13268584
I'm not Muslim, you stupid retard. Your entire post is embarrassing. Delete this.

>>13268600
Don't worry, in just a minute he'll tell you how that wasn't REAL Islam.

>>13268084
>blah blah blah blah Allah, the glorified and most exalted blah blah blah Umar, may Allah be pleased with him blah blah blah Ali, may Allah be pleased with him blah blah Abu Bakr, may Allah be.............
God dude it's ridiculous to try to read this shit. You really have to give every Muslim forefather a damn shoutout whenever you reference them?

>>13268600
Apostatasy in a political here is tantamount to treason, God, may he be exalted and glorified, orders the same to be done to apostates repeatedly in the Bible. This does not mean death if you cease to believe or practice, only if you openly denounce Islam. This leads to subversives causing community division like they did in the west during the Enlightenment

Christians didn't tolerate idol worship either

Buddhists are not Amish, please stop imagining that.

Jews and Christians have too

Don't steal. It works

Male adulterers were executed too

Christians have a far more bloody history. Shintoism for its size is very bad too

Slavery in Islam is arguably more humane than the conditions of sweatshop labor used by the west

>>13268663
Okay, fuck all Abrahamic cancer, but fuck you Muslims especially.
>Buddhists are not Amish, please stop imagining that.
Buddhists don't have a crazy violent beginning like Islam. Buddha had nothing in common with Muhammad.
>>13268606
Violence is not sacred, you dumb piece of shit.

>>13268691
You are far more violent than the Prophet, Allah's peace and blessings be upon him, desu. When Muhammad defeated Makkah, he pardoned all his enemies

>>13268702
>You are far more violent than the Prophet,
Maybe to your deranged brain. I haven't started any wars or condoned beheading like he did. I am just fed up with you Muslims. You are sick bastards who follow a warlord. Why do you think a Bedouin warlord had any special "revelations" or any enlightenment experience compared to more level-headed figures like Buddha? What makes you think Muhammad is so great?

You are sick bastards who have a kind of medieval Semitic level of barbarity.

>>13268718
He unified Arabia into a powerful empire out of a bunch of feuding tribes. Similar accomplishments in the west, such as the Roman Empire, are considered heroic

>>13268731
There’s no point arguing with a bigot like him. They’re blinded by rage. Fed information until they can regurgitate it without thinking about what they’re saying. He’s probably never even met a Muslim.

>>13268731
By condoning of beheadings at Banu Qurayza?

Religious matters are not the same as political. Muhammad was more of a politician than someone with a more genuine vision like the Buddha. He was a lustful, deranged maniac who Sunni radicals do the best job of emulating.

No one worships Roman emperors as literal enlightened man apprehended the true nature of reality. It is a false equivalence.

>>13268749
I was born to a Muslim family, and I can tell you everything the Far Right has to say about Muslims is true. They are bloodthirsty maniacs. Mecca should be nuked.

>>13268770
So clearly a lie. So sad that you feel the need to.

>>13268731
The Roman Empire is considered heroic, not holy. Most people would and do take issues with Rome's morals.
Islam purports to be a holy religion, therefore it is expected to be moral. When its founder is revealed to have been a warlord and polygamous slave-owner people smell hypocrisy.
Long story short, people don't religions and holy men to the same moral standard as fucking historical empires.

>>13268779
I am not lying. What would I gain from lying on an imageboard? How is it unfathomable there can be someone born to a Muslim family that ultimately saw the heinousness in the religion?

Muhammad was a warlord and polygamous slave-owner as the other guy above me said. Do you not see how this is problematic?

>>13268788
Cry more

>>13268749
Posssibly

>>13268760
I fully condone them, they had a peace agreement and violated it, letting them live after that is a liability because their word is worthless

>>13268781
On the contrary, many church fathers saw the Roman Empire as prepared by God to spread Christianity

>>13268788
Warlord is just a pejorative here for non white leader and warrior

He had multiple wives but he required wives to be given equal income and a house each of their own, it's not like Buddhists were monogamous

He had slaves and treated them better than most employees are treated and the Qur'an says let slaves who ask for it earn freedom

>>13268229
Are you Turkish, Arab or Pakistani?

>>13268691
>Violence is not sacred, you dumb piece of shit.

Violence is sacred for humans. Violence founds every culture and myth there has ever been. Jesus revealed this better than anyone.

Stop posting.

>>13268471
>what about the peace, man?
>let's kill all muslims!

>>13267055
Hahaahaha, you're not a Christian? hahahah oh no!~~~ Enjoy hell bugman~ HAHAHAHAHA