/lit/ - Literature

OP you made this thread because of the shit going on between David French and Sohrab Ahmari, didn't you?

Sure, when the cronyism stops.

>>13241123
I'm not worried about them anymore, they've become completely incoherent and I can't even understand their posts anymore.

There is no state of affairs you mongoloid

Everything is fine

>>13241152
Peak boomer, this thinking is what ruined everything

>>13241159

What exactly is wrong, dipshit

Please, articulate this to me

>>13241123
Liberalism is dying/dead. China is the future. People don't value their liberties nearly as much as they say they do. As long as they get money and don't question the system too much it's all good. You can even call it a "democracy", as long as people don't have a voice in things that actually matter (see: the US, UK...).

>>13241123
Fucking based

>>13241162
1/3 of men aren't having sex? What's not going wrong

>>13241162
Earth is literally dying and our pitiful half-hearted attempts aren't going to save it.

>>13241175
Emissions stagnated from 2003 to 2015 before skyrocketing.

>>13241169
Based

>>13241168
Lmao @ this train of thought. China is buoyed by Confucianism and rising living standards due to low-hanging fruit of easy economic development. Those can only hold for so long. Not only will China's growth slow to a crawl before it approaches western living standards, but the centralization it is now employing to quell the population when this inevitably happens will only foment insurrection among the Chinese. Just last week a student group at their most prestigious university got busted for agitating against the authoritarian government

>>13241170
Hmm, that's because of radical notions from Continental traditions that have seeped into Western popular culture, has nothing to do with liberalism. In fact liberalism encourages the marketplace of ideas whereby you may analyze, understand, and 'fix' such phenomena

>>13241175
Climate change is the only doomsday; pollution, water scarcity, etc. are not existential threats.

But climate change, if the Paris standards are met, will be largely mitigated. And the future's biggest polluters, China and India, have the greatest interest in seeing they are met because of their dense populations and unfortunate positioning with respect to rising sea levels

The only legitimate power in the world that is not willing to act against climate change (to the extent we need to act against it) is the Republican party, which is just a group of power-hungry boomers who will be dead soon

>>13241205
>China and India
>why yes, I read Newsweek. How could you tell

>>13241211

Actually I exclusively read Wikipedia. For news, I just refresh pages until they're updated

If Liberalism as a sociopolitical order wants to survive it is going to have to expel all its Catholics.

I say this as a devout Catholic myself. The last decade has seen a gradual reawakening of the Church, and a realization that its own goals are not the same as the goals of the liberal, postmodern West. This anon here >>13241126 alludes to part of this debate. But the fact of the matter is that capital-L Liberalism, the Liberalism of Descartes, Rousseau, Bacon, and Locke, does not fit with a Catholic view of reality. It has never fit. The dominance of Britain and America as geopolitical hegemons has essentially forced Liberalism on the Church. But now Britain is a joke and America weakens. The Church, so long forced to bend the knee, perks up its snout, and senses an opportunity to reassert its own priorities. And I, as a faithful Catholic, am glad that it does so.

>>13241240

Nobody cares about your kiddy diddling meme religion, it isn't 1600 anymore you larper

>>13241240
Honestly it's seeming more and more like the left and right can't live together. How would we begin to separate the two into separate nations?

>>13241205
Don't take the China comment too literally.
The fact of the matter is that there are many people who want to move from more liberal countries to less liberal ones (China, Singapore, UK...) for purely materialistic reasons.
Not many people care about liberal values. 99% of people have no need for free speech and would gladly shut up to not get in trouble. Now put two and two together. That's the future we're looking at.

>>13241251
Aren't liberals now fighting free speech to get rid of opposing opinions/"hate"?

>>13241251

>The fact of the matter is that there are many people who want to move from more liberal countries to less liberal ones (China, Singapore, UK...) for purely materialistic reasons.

First of all, what? Who? Nick Land?

Second of all,

>UK

nice

>>13241251
No ones expatriating the the UK lol, fucking ground zero

>>13241246
You'd better hope we're LARPing, you fucking degenerate, because otherwise you're going to have a very bad time of it. You and all your filth-stained kindred.

>>13241256
If they're doing that they're by definition not liberals.
Labels can be misleading.
Just like most of the people in of the US, UK, France... don't actually want to bomb foreign countries and kill thousands of people. But that doesn't stop us from calling those countries democracies.

>>13241264
>>13241272
The UK has many economic immigrants from the EU. And arguably all of those EU countries are more democratic and liberal than the UK.

>>13241282
All the npcs are in for an increasingly stressful life.

>>13241284
>more democratic and liberal than the UK
Christ how bad can it get? Why not germany?

>>13241291
Germany has some important free speech restrictions, but de facto it's still more democratic. The UK is completely taken over by the elites.

>>13241302
Not even their elites either.

"Never never never give up" - the man who presided over the dissolution of his empire

IMO the idea that the state will ever "wither away" is wrong. We will probably need some form of "state" if we continue to have complex societies and liberal theorists can be useful for thinking about how to deal with the problems that arise from alienated power. There will continue to be useful things to glean from liberalism but liberal societies are probably done as an ideal unto themselves.

>>13241284
You cannot honestly believe that Poland is more liberal than the UK

>>13241312
Didn't they cowtow to israels most recent extortion?

>>13241312
Do people in Poland go to jail for posting mean tweets?
Do homosexuals in Poland get sprayed with acid?
Because these things happen in the UK.

>>13241250
fucking bump.

can it be done without civil war?

>>13241327
>>13241332
Are you arguing that liberalism is good and Poland is liberal?

>>13241369
liberalism is clearly for liberals and nobody else, so why don't we just divide?

>>13241372
I wasn't even trying to argue anything about the value of liberalism, just the idea that Poland is more liberal than the UK is on its face absurd. Poland no longer has an even nominally politically independent judiciary, the Law and Justice Party took it over.

>>13241379
wow did not take much reading to find out polish politics are insane. are there any books on the situation of post communism europe?

As long as the metaphysics of presence dominates human interaction and the organisation thereof in the West then liberalism will always have a place, even if it refers metonymically to something other than what it is today -- the conditions of possibility remain

>>13241379
>the idea that Poland is more liberal than the UK is on its face absurd
Freedom of expression and physical safety for marginalized groups are liberal values, are they not?

>>13241416
>Freedom of expression
>liberal
do you just live under a rock?

>>13241284
They are liberals in that they want everyone to grow up in societies free from discrimination and other such hinderances that would otherwise impede the development of a rational subject to engage in a society defined by its contracts. The key here is knowing why free speech is valued in liberal societies, and that exploiting that misunderstood belief in what it is in order to dominate others is not really in line with the philosophy that underpins free speech

>>13241435
That's some decent mental gymnastics, I'll grant you as much. And I'm sure the elites in the UK (and China etc.) use similar arguments.

But getting rid of free speech isn't the only way to achieve social order ("an inclusive society" as the pseudo-liberals would say).
There are other ways, but they have their problems too, I'm afraid we just can't have everything, but I also believe that we can do better. I don't have time to post more, maybe later...

>>13241460
will you stop pretending you're a liberal from 100 years ago and address the real fact that libs today are attacking free speech

>>13241416
It's against the law in Poland to say that Poles collaborated with Nazi Germany or participated in the Holocaust, even though this is uncontroversial elsewhere in the world. The law is widely considered a violation of free speech. Also without a politically independent judiciary, who's to there's freedom of expression or guaranteed safety for those with anti-government views? The checks on government power are shrinking.

>>13241403
Most of my knowledge of Eastern European current events isn't from books, I keep up with the goings on because I have family there. Stephen Kotkin is well respected though. I read Armageddon Averted, but it's about transition rather than the solidly post-Communist era. I haven't read "Political Corruption in Transition: A Sceptic's Handbook" or "Historical Legacies of Communism in Russia and Eastern Europe" but they may be closer to what you're looking for.

I just read "Ukraine and the Empire of Capital" by Yuliya Yurchenko if you're willing to look at books about specific countries rather than the region as a whole. It's not particularly theoretically innovative but it's solid work and presents a coherent picture of the political and economic trajectory of Ukraine since the Soviet collapse.

>>13241469
*who is there to guarantee freedom of expression

>>13241240
fuck off rasen

>>13241469
most of those look like short easy reads, thank you

>>13241460
I have no idea what you're talking about sorry. What you said makes no sense in the context of my post

>>13241468
'free speech' isn't even free speech anymore, it's an empty talking point where people are forced to adopt a side along with the hypocrisy that surrounds that particular side. Do you think speech can be free when you respond like an automaton to the talking points the media gives you, like conversation tips?

>>13241492
you can just say you don't want to hear opposing opinions. the left and right should really split up, this is getting untenable.

the right will be able to say what we want, and you will be able to do as you please. perfect?

>>13241499
What? I want to hear opposing opinions but parroting shit because you want to fit in with others isn't really an articulated opinion. Saying you support 'free speech' then forgoing any sensible language and making a bunch of animal sounds really misses the point. There's a specific point, from within a specific historical context, that people valued free speech for society. They probably could not foresee that telling people to 'fuck off' would be regarded as freedom of expression instead of an explicit attempt to silence

>>13241504
no, they foresaw it. it's your short sighted smug and smarmy dunning kruger affected ass that doesn't understand how the integrity of freedom of speech is held up. what's wrong with the right and left parting ways? why can't we just agree to disagree and do our own things?

>>13241168
See the "red scarves" in france that protested against the yellow vests: boomers, urbanites and bleeding heart citizens of the world applauding the police and praising the "Fifth" when it gravely maims the peasants. They would gladly send them back against a wall in the name of democracy if they could, even "intellectuals" who always praise reason, facts and democracy called for the police to shoot at them. It's really just a state where classes of people try to protect their interests against perceived threats like the yellow vests (the reverse is also true), so-called democracy is just a soft control tool to make the rural retards shut the fuck up

>>13241509
We should call it "right flight". I'm getting tingly, this is exactly the kind of thing that would force left hypocrisy out in the open.

>>13241509
The integrity of it is held up with recourse so its underlying philosophy and legislation through history, not just whatever you feel it means. You're part of the problem that you believe your own feelings matter just because you feel them, without regard to everything else you don't yet even know. Fuck the left and the right, they both value their initial responses too highly. The conversation needs to change about free speech so it echoes the history of the idea and isn't just a ball to kick around between both sides

>>13241516
fuck off with that hypocritical babble hoping to pull in idiots. so fucking hilarious that the left now attacks feelings, really shows what fucking dumb children they are when it comes to politics and political motivations.

>>13241514
>right flight
box it up and take it to /pol/

>>13241516
The integrity of freedom of speech is held up by not infringing on it... whatsoever. At least right wing authoritarians have the decency to admit what they are.

>>13241523
Don't be fucking dumb
>so fucking hilarious that the left now attacks feelings
Maybe it's because I'm not a leftist? That's how more in control everyone else is of your thoughts than you. Free speech indeed, people can just stick their fingers in your brain and make you say whatever they want you to say

>>13241482
Sure thing. If you're open to audio interviews, check out the archives of the podcast "Sean's Russia Blog" for relevant episodes. Most episodes are interviews with academics who research eastern Europe and the (former) Soviet Union, not just Russia. The most recent episode was about Polish secret police archives. You'll likely find some good books that way too.

>>13241539
>espouses left beliefs
>not a leftist
i do understand that you are a liar at heart and all other titles are accessories to be worn as needed.

>>13241536
Infringing on it means changing it from what it was intended to mean within a certain context. Infringing on it is stamping your own subjective opinion onto a philosophy you know nothing about because the words used invoke a certain response

>>13241549
No infringing on freedom of expression means not letting people express themselves.

>>13241546
No you called me a leftist because I -wasn't- espousing leftist beliefs and you were in shock that leftists 'now attack feelings'. A sensible man would reconsider his first impressions if what looked like a duck, walked like a duck, started sounding like a goose.

>beep boop fucking leftists

>>13241556
No use telling me your subjective opinions on free speech. I express my inner self when I fart directly into your mother's mouth

>>13241559
nigger are you really going to pretend you aren't a liberal? the reply chain goes right back to your first post.

>>13241561
I know there's no use in explaining liberty to a liberal

That's why it's time for right flight.

>>13241564
Yes we're all pretending. Everyone is lying to you :) Now if you would get back to the point being discussed instead of working through the cognitive dissonance?

>>13241569
How many times have you used that one before? Your speech is so free!

>>13241578
you poor faggot, you poor stupid faggot, do you really think obfuscation will help you grow in strength? that it can lead to a win? you're playing a dying mans game.

>>13241583
You're the one who jumped from discussing the point. Yes I specifically attacked feelings because I'm pretending to be leftist. What a valuable discussion, our classical liberalist forefathers would be proud

>>13241588
you sounds like you're hot off of a high school debate team, falling back on the weakest and most hypocritical excuses like subjectivity. you pretend to me smart because that's the only way you ever will be. read the declaration of independence if you want to know why what you said is wrong.

>inb4 you need me to point out your opinions
that would be typical for you shiftless ones

>>13241596
You're totally right my dude, you can leave the thread now

>>13241605
maybe i want to bump your lies to full frontal exposure some more

>>13241427
You’re thinking of American liberalism

>>13241162
You dont get to articulate it on a 4channel board because the standard reply of "pol" immediately shuts down the discourse and mods delete the thread.

>>13241240
>The last decade has seen a gradual reawakening of the Church, and a realization that its own goals are not the same as the goals of the liberal, postmodern West.
Can't say I see it outside obscure Internet circles, and most of those seem to see their ideal society as the Soviet Union minus abortion. Maybe in a few decades the Church will be relevant in public debate again. As far as the US is concerned Catholic politicians are among the biggest promoters of liberal policies.

>>13241123
>Can liberalism be salvaged?
No, it has to be run over with tanks.

>>13241123
read Foucault. liberalism always leads to state-forced transformation of social life.

>>13241123
Zizek says they (neoliberals) use racism to reinforce the violent status quo of globalization and commodification.

>>13241126
Welcome to globalization (americanization) buddy. Uncle Tito wasn't so bad after all, isn't it?

>>13241129
Nonsense. CIA is responsible for SJWs and the Frankfurt School.
Marcuse's whole critique was that of repressive desublimation - basically forms of hedonism which become a method of control - and a critique of regression in the left. The often cited quotes for that meme of tolerance do not understand what he is saying. He is basically talking about tolerance in terms of free speech and how the lesser known ideas are essentially a duty, which is the precise opposite of what SJWs are doing. Here he is talking about regressivity 60 years before the Alt-Right:
https://youtu.be/al3aOuqpVbs
If you want to know what they would be like today just look at Zizek, he hates the SJWs perhaps more than the Right does.
Also keep in mind that much of the New Right was influenced by TFS and Gramsci, so the seeds are already in your ideas. And this makes sense because the Frankfurt School was actually a response to German Conservatives where they discussed many of the same things, just with different analysis and diagnoses.
This is one of the major problems in philosophy and politics today, people get lost in the minor details and never even attempt to search out the essence of the problem. If you want to critique TFS that's great, I do as well, but do it in terms of their essence not some memes based on a retard's misreading. That's the only way you will ever learn, because your position is actually outdone by them, you are an object of their critique (i.e. mechanical reproduction of art, or a product of the culture industry). You got tricked.

>>13241140
Stalin made homosexuality illegal and Engels called gays bourgeoise degeneracy.

>>13241152
They are population culling eugenicists.

Their enemy has always been the worker.

>>13241159
US exported it's filthy degeneracy for more than 100 yrs. Sharter ape-jazz culture destroyed Europe. The decadence is from USA.

young European women were Americanized, wearing makeup, short hair/skirts, smoking, whoring, and breaking with traditional mores. The euphoria surrounding negro-Jazz bitch Josephine Baker in Europe for instance, where she was declared an "erotic ape-goddess"

Europeans revolted against US and went full RWDS

>>13241162
>import millions of shitskins to destroy domsestic workers
>lower wages from imported shitskins
>higher cost of living
>higher cost of housing/education/healthcare
>homeless epidemic

fuck your western """leftist"""

these faggots get the gulag

>>13241168
CIA destroyed unions, labor movements and elections in Japan and South Korea during the Cold War
the CIA was up to tricks to do whatever it took to keep Worker freedom out of Japan and South Korea.

>>13241169
What this board calls ''cultural marxism'' the rest of the world calls ''American degeneracy''. For real. Under socialism we were socially conservative. Now everybody does recreational drugs and girls are sluts. None of this under actual marxism. Explain yourselves.

We became (((democracies))). Now we're all in the same cesspool as the burgers.

the USSR called it "Meлкoбypжyaзнaя мopaль".

>>13241170
normal people call it capitalism, bourgeiose culture or American influence since it's spread via capitalism and enforced by the geopolitic arch nemesis of Marxism.

the issue is that it is as american as apple pie, cia, and capitalism

the issue is that USSR, Stalin, Tito, Hoxho, Iron Curtain, DDR, Cuba, even Strasser wanted to kill it and you dont realize it

>>13241175
The CIA's New left is identity politics, globalism and environmentalism. They don't give a shit about workers' rights or public welfare unless it can be construed as minorities vs. straight white males.

>>13241181
the CIA invented cultural marxism

>>13241205
>blaming "cultural marxism"
>when it's the CIA who pushed contemporary art in order to contraste with gommie social-realism

>>13241211
CIA/Corporate Co-opting of Socialism

the 'woke left' claim to be anti establishment when all politicians, corporations, all media, academia, and a whole class of insufferable centrist upper middle class liberal whites who look down their nose at the working class, are ALL aligned on this issue. They are ALL functionally 'socially liberal' aka cultural marxist aka New Left

When we see Colin Capernick getting nike endorsements, feminism being peddled by mainstream media outlets, etc. We can see that cultural marxism is enforced by corporate capitalism. cultural marxism does not challenge the system, cultural marxism reinforces the capitalist system. Indeed, if you look at many pride parades today its difficult to even tell that acceptance of and visibility for LGBT+ is the goal of the parade, or rather the glorification of the tech industry, as you see the marchers holding up signs that say INTEL, MICROSOFT, APPLE. You can have (and often do) major corporations endorse feminism and lgbt+ issues wheras amazon would obviously never endorse a march to increase the minimum wage or pro-union. This is the sort of "woke neoliberalism" epitomized by people such as Hillary Clinton, the New Left, Frankfurt school, CIA and the tumblr crowd - The Californian ideology. Sex, Drugs, and fiscal conservatism.

>>13241219
Frankfurt school produced bourgeois ideology for the CIA

after reading Marcuse's "On Soviet Communism" (funded by the CIA btw), I abandoned them.

>>13241240
in NZ almost all private sector unions were crushed now its only the wharfies and government workers
Jews have abandoned trade union and working class goals and moved to identity politics or simply being straight up Neoliberal Warmongers.

>>13241246
Engels was racist and anti-homo
https://s1.desu-usergeneratedcontent.xyz/his/image/1557/50/1557508597172.png

>>13241250
Michael Parenti on identity politics being a CIA psyop and neoliberal con

https://youtu.be/n79kRP5RB2M

>>13241251
When you import millions of shitskins you Americanize them and gain control of their foreign affairs

They become dependent on your policies and you gain influence in their homelands as they adopt Americanization/Globalization

Americanization/Globalization accelerated after the collapse of USSR to expand into 3rd world shitholes and import shitskins by the millions to subjugate them under the American Empire

When you import millions of shitskins, they become supporters of McDonalds, Nike, Levi's, consumerism and export and expand America back in their cunts

>>13241256
india has shitting streets specifically for you fags to find your partner.
all fags should go to india for sex tourism. there's millions of fresh raw ass waiting for you faggots

>>13241264
Trotskyites become Neocons (Ayn Rand, Irving Kristol)

Frankfurt School and Popperists become Neoliberals, Cultural Marxists (Soros)

>>13241272
Freud called you anally retentive. he classified fags as literal retards fixated on scat/shit, unable to function as humans.
Chomsky wanted to send all fags to India-- the land of open assholes, where shitting streets, scat, and anal galore welcome the degenerate dissidents of Communism

>>13241282
"liberal progresivness" is an anti-marxist plot to undermine Socialism
George soros, identity politics supporter to the core, also funded tons and tons of anti-communist and dissident movements in the soviet union.

>>13241284
do you enjoy the smell of shit?

you are aware that a pungent warm fart straight out of a male's ripe anus releases phermones signalling that the anus has just finished self-lubricating with hot feces and impatiently awaits a scatophile to scoop out the phermone-rich shit

>>13241288
>CIA invented cultural marxism

are you implying Soviets invented second wave feminism and LGBT degeneracy?

>>13241291
>With Socialism focused on the workers while progressive liberalism favors sexual and ethnic minorities?

Could it be considered that there's a full separation between Western and Eastern Socialism? With Eastern Socialism focused on the workers while Western Socialism favors sexual and ethnic minorities?

Western "socialist" "intellectuals" seem to think that black trannies smoking weed and having gay sex are penultimate socialist icons. Not talking about democratic retards, but twitter retards.

The thing is, this seems to not be a recent phenomenon. The Soviet-backed Communist Party of France strongly opposed the 60s Sexual Revolution-type stuff and choose to not get involved in the protests.

>>13241302
classic Socialism: Pro-Worker, Pro-Family, Pro-White, anti-fag, anti-degeneracy, anti-immigration, anti-open borders
practiced: Poland, Yugoslavia, Hungary, Iron Curtain, Czechoslovakia, Cuba, North Korea, USSR
supporters: Marx, Engels, Stalin, Tito, Castro, Hoxha, right-wing
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
western ""Socialism"": anti-Worker, anti-Family, anti-White, pro-Fag, pro-immigration, pro-shitskin, pro-open borders, pro-degeneracy
practiced: USA and globalized vassals (Europe, Canada, Straya, Brazil...)
supporters: CIA, Rockefeller, Rothschild, Bush, Soros, Corporations, Wall Street, Frankfurt school, Luxemborg, Chabad, Frankists

>>13241304
Corporations are now so wealthy and powerful that profit has taken a back seat to social engineering
Did any of you libertarian fags predict this?

https://i.4pcdn.org/pol/1557708094680.png

>>13241310
modern left is a joke that nobody takes seriously anymore. It got infultrated by capitalists that promote faggotness and other ridicilous bs for just that reason, and you stupid twat fell for it

Real socialists piss on lgbt

>>13241312
>Be Socialists

Team Eastern Evropa:
>Strong pro-Family, pro-Tradition, anti-faggots
>Overthrow crapitalists
>exterminate bourgeoisie faggots
>Create Socialist utopia

Team Shartland and Western gayrope:
>anti-Family, degenerate, pro-homosex
>get raped by crapitalists
>constantly fail at everything
>cant into Worker revolutions **gee i wonder why**
>CIA sponsors faggotry
>create globohomo dystopia

>>13241327
The New Left gained traction in the 70s and was based on Anti-Union, Anti-Worker, Pro-Homo, Pro-White Genocide politics.

the New Left was started by Frankfurt School who moved to the US and worked with the CIA to popularize an anti-Worker """"socialist"""" movement against Marxism, Stalinism

The working class was the focus of Marxists this, but the Frankfurt School rejected the working class.

Marcuse, Kirchheimer, and the Frankfurt School, worked with CIA, to popularize anti-Worker """"socialism"""".

They subverted socialism in the West and reorientated the battle over production, to a contest of endless consumption, immigration, degeneracy, which preoccupied the New Left.
Unlike the earlier Socialists (Old Left) focus on union activism, the "New Left" in the US since 1960s, instead focused on protesting class-based oppression to include issues such as gender, race and faggotry

>>13241332
CIA's plan was to divert the focus of western communist movements away from the plight of the worker and refocus it to things like "sexual liberation". To make these communist's unappealing to the majority of workers to which made it impossible for them to win a majority in domocratic western nations.

>>13241364
meanwhile US was the cesspit of Jazz, degeneracy, and immigration

the sharter alt-right is trying to ride the coattails of Socialism anti globalism and pretending you’re actually le based trad guys

>>13241369
Cultural Marxism is a fake term
USSR called it capitalist degeneracy.

>>13241372
frankfurt school was rabidly anti-USSR and criticised the Soviet power. The Soviets denounced Trotskyists and his New Left faggots.

both racism and sexism have been used by CIA to undermine economically-left positions and create scapegoats.

Even in the 19th century, Marx had to purge the American section of the Internationale because they couldn't resist being hijacked by idpol.
>https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1872/09/splits.htm

CIA popularized liberal identitarianism to completely displace leftist politics in the USA and abroad

Marxism and idpol are compatible

says the so-called marxist that will be ostracized from every single Eastern bloc country and every single Socialist country to ever exist, including Cuba, North Korea, Yugoslavia, DDR, USSR...

You western """communists""" (who never achieved a Socialist state cuz too busy fuckin eachother in the ass) would be gulag'd by Marx himself

>>13241379
Welcome to globalization (americanization) buddy. Uncle Tito wasn't so bad after all, isn't it?

>>13241403
Marcuse is the Father of the New Left and worked for the CIA.

The New Left was created by Rockefeller, CIA and spread around the various faggot Ivy League academic centers in Columbia, Berkeley, Yale in the 1970s

the New Left was exclusive to the elite institutions of America.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbert_Marcuse

>>13241414
Bullfuckingshit, If they were active and as numerous as before there would be far less outsourcing, far less migrant workers, no one would teach h1b rajeet their work before getting fired 2 weeks later.

I condede to you that they gained a lot of rights, 5 day work week, weekends, 8 hour limit etc. But these are being lost, gradually, piece by piece. and this is due to the fact that unions were totally raped post 80s.

and they will not come back, I can confidently state that workers rights in 2030s will be far worse than the workers rights today.

>>13241416
All of these population culling polices are outlined the Rockefeller Commission Report

http://jaffememo.com/full-list-of-population-control-measures-listed-on-the-jaffe-memo/62.htm

>>13241427
>CIA invented cultural marxism

are you implying Soviets invented second wave feminism and LGBT degeneracy?

>>13241435
You have to be a real bluepilled cuck to not see how this "conspiracy" makes complete sense.

>Step one: The climate is the biggest issue goyim!
>Stop having white children to stop the disaster good goy
>Oh no, our low birth rates are an issue now, what a massive (((coincidence)))
>Let's import a billion third-world niggers to fix the birth rates so whites don't need to have children
>Wow surprisingly majority white countries and regions are now becoming mainly "minority" areas, so minority whites
>Remember goy, you are an evil white person so this is fine
>In less than 100 years white people will very nearly disappear from the areas subjected to immigration
It really isn't a conspiracy if you have even the tiniest bit of common sense.

>>13241460
Capitalists want open borders for the cheap labor and high consumption rate, like you said. They are not allies of socialists.

Socialists oppose open borders because we want collective bargaining to set wage rates and we want underdeveloped countries to industrialize under direction of their own technical and skilled workers--which they cannot do if brain-drained.

https://americanaffairsjournal.org/2018/11/the-left-case-against-open-borders/

>>13241468
"Cultural Marxism" is conservative liberals attacking gay liberals. It has nothing to do with leftists. Conservative-liberals don't even know that leftists exists. They think Obama is a leftist as they get.

>>13241469
Stalin fought against western ""socialists"".

Stalin warned against the western degenerates who seek to destroy socialism.

>>13241473
america forced those politicians on us! t-the CIA invented cultural marxism!"

>>13241474
Apparently in order to lecture the Communist Eastern bloc on Socialism you must be a failure from the West who never succeeded in revolting against crapitalism

>>13241482
100yrs ago
>Marx/Engels: Anti-homo, anti-IdPol, anti-immigration, anti-Jazz

80yrs ago
>Stalin: Anti-homo, anti-IdPol, anti-immigration, anti-Jazz

50yrs ago
>Brezhnev/Tito/Hoxha/Castro: Anti-homo, anti-IdPol, anti-immigration, anti-Jazz

30yrs ago
>USSR/Iron Curtain/Cuba: Anti-homo, anti-IdPol, anti-immigration, anti-Jazz

>>13241483
The WASPs established these organizations to implement eugenics, but now they wont be flaunting their plans out in the open like they did 100 yrs ago. They now apply more sophisticated socio-economic policies to reduce population, while destroying worker rights.

Obviously these organizations have become useless decoys as their population culling strategies are now established policies running under various guises and New Left CIA fronts such as:

Proliferating LBGTQ
Engineered Economic collapse
Hyperinflating Housing bubbles (thru mass migration to destroy family formation)
Climate Change/Global warming

>>13241492
Cultural marxism is a term these despicable sniveling rat-faced weasels throw around to fool and hoodwink their right-winged peons to distract them from the wool that's been pulled over their eyes.

Zizek pointed out that what are commonly referred to as cultural Marxists could actually be called cultural Capitalism. I realize that this is amusingly accurate.

>>13241499
Neoliberalism was a CIA project used to destroy pro-Worker Socialism and replace it with Anti-Worker, Pro-Homo SJWism of the "New Left"

>Frankfurt School
>Marcuse
>New Left
>Rockefeller
>CIA

>members of the Frankfurt School--Franz Neumann, Herbert Marcuse, and Otto Kirchheimer--worked for the CIA

>Worked on domestic and foreign propaganda agency

>received a Rockefeller Foundation grant (Rockefeller Foundation was closely tied to CIA) to deconstruct Soviet Marxism

>CIA funded french eurocoms

>CIA/Rockefeller pursue to destroy pro-Worker Socialism and replace it with anti-Worker imposter """Socialism"""
https://press.princeton.edu/titles/9955.html

https://nithgrim.wordpress.com/2016/05/19/marcuse-and-the-deep-state/

http://archive.oah.org/special-issues/teaching/2001_09/article.html

http://thephilosophicalsalon.com/the-cia-reads-french-theory-on-the-intellectual-labor-of-dismantling-the-cultural-left/

https://www.theawl.com/2015/08/literary-magazines-for-socialists-funded-by-the-cia-ranked/

>>13241504
Had you somehow managed to not notice the massive propaganda war waged against unions by the capitalist class for the past 40+ years?

Or perhaps the role of 40 years of neoliberal economic policy in undermining the economic security of the working class, in order to engender profound risk aversion to class agitation in any form?

>>13241509
USA managed to collapse whole planet in just 20 years.Absolute masterminds of destroying everything.
USA even destroyed themselves. From most patriotic conservative country in 1950s to globalist Clinton pedophile capitalist hellscape in 2019 overrun by unelected millitary lobby masses and MSM brainwashing goyim

Now we are all slaves to big companies

>>13241513
Trotskyites become Neocons (Ayn Rand, Irving Kristol)

Frankfurt School and Popperists become Neoliberals, Cultural Marxists (Soros)

>>13241514
>CIA were targeting US citizens while they make you believe they only destabilize foreign nations

>>13242462
>>13242460
>>13242454
etc.
>you can take the redditor out of the downvote but you can never take the downvote out of the redditor

>>13241516
90% of the leftists, in US, Canada, Straya, Europe, are totally compromised and trained to support the CIA-created imposter variant

The CIA did a great job in killing off any pro-Worker movement by creating a decoy to lure and destroy the goys

The only hope is Nationalism desu, that's why many are going NazBol

>>13241523
Do you see Cultural Marxism flourishing in any country hostile to the US?

Or does Cultural Marxism only flourish in countries that are under US (CIA) hegemony?

>>13241536
...And how/why did the US come to dominate and influence the globe?

In the 1950s, Cultural Marxism did not exist in any part of the globe sans the US, where it was still a project developing under the CIA.

Could it be that US has an aggressive geopolitical policy to dominate and subjugate foreign nations and administer Cultural Marxist policies to keep them drugged under US hegemony?

>>13241539
>be new left frankfurt school yids
>Compliments on Hollywood doing a great job at turning Workers into fags
>OOOOOHHHHH SHIIIIT, the Workers killed Hollywood
>wonder why our revolution failed?
>Time to fix our retarded theories and blame the failures of our theories on some bullshit
>HOLY FUCK, the Workers went full RWDS and elected Stalin and Adolf
>Our Critical Theory didnt see that coming
>Let's change our Bullshit Theory for the 1000th time

>>13241541
US exported it's filthy degeneracy for more than 100 yrs. Sharter ape-jazz culture destroyed Europe. The decadence is from USA.

young European women were Americanized, wearing makeup, short hair/skirts, smoking, whoring, and breaking with traditional mores. The euphoria surrounding negro-Jazz bitch Josephine Baker in Europe for instance, where she was declared an "erotic ape-goddess"

Europeans revolted against US and went full RWDS

>>13241170
That just means evolution is accelerating. Deal with it, butthurt incel.

>>13241546
The ringleaders are the WASPs: Bush, Rockefeller and the rest of Old Blue Blood eugenicists

The eugenicist WASPs hired Frankfurt School Yids to cull the population and destroy societies

It's literally Rockefeller, Bush, CIA.

All the New Left policies have their origins in eugenic efforts of the WASP ruling elite like Rockefeller, who outlined in the Jaffe Memo, their eugenicist, anti-Worker policies:

Encourage increased homosexuality
Encourage women to work
Reduce/eliminate paid maternity leave
Reduce/eliminate social benefits
Destroy Worker rights/Unions

>>13241549
The New Left (Frankfurters) fail to realize that their failed prophecy of anti-Capitalist revolution actually manifested with National Socialist revolution against the ruling class!

>>13241556
For all of its faults Soviet Communism never succumbed to Cultural Marxism. It's well documented that the CIA funded Postmodern artists to demoralize the Soviet Classical art scene. Another demonstration of this resilience is the present state of Eastern Europe. While Eastern Europe lags behind the west economically it maintains its ethnic and cultural identities.

When the Frankfurt School fled they came to New York, not Moscow.

>>13241559
http://jaffememo.com/full-list-of-population-control-measures-listed-on-the-jaffe-memo/62.htm

>>13241561
Fun fact: During the 1968 invasion some of the participating Soviet units received orders to "beware of men with long hair, they are fascists". The Soviet role in the movement would be primarily suppressing it on the Eastern side of the iron curtain and providing un-requested hairdressing service.

>>13241564
The headquarters of Cultural Marxism is Washington DC (Pentagon)

>>13241569
Gloria Steinem - How The CIA Used Feminism To Destabilize Society
https://www.savethemales.ca/180302.html

>>13241332
These things don't happen in the UK. They're the fantasies of Breitbart bubble-dwellers.

>>13241578
All this new left shit is purely American.
Other countries are physically incapable of this level of cringe

>>13241582
Developped what? Jazz? Mass advertisement? Superhero movies? Reality TV shows? Mumblerap? Replacing diverse traditional culture with uniform dumbed down shit optimized for wealth extraction? Nuclear family as the normal? Gender ideology? Obsession over sexual minorities? Gasterbaiters? Prepackaged experiences that replace the real experiences so that someone might earn a profit? Tinder and Grinder? Facebook?

>>13241583
The Frankfurt School developed Cultural Marxism to rectify the failures of their Messianic prophecies. WWI showed that nation/ethnic identities were stronger than class identities. In order to create a world amenable to Economic Marxism the social impediments needed to be removed.

Here's an excellent documentary on the subject. About 37 minutes long.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2677YdumFs

>>13241588
REMINDER FAGGOTS

marxism =/= idpol
most of you /pol/ faggots would turn communist if you knew that, wouldn't you?

liberals and their idpol pushing is exactly the thing what's killing leftist ideologies more then anything else

Truth is no real marxists of the modern age or the past identifies with idpol/CulturalMarxist politics and never will, but you go right ahead. You should stop calling yourself marxist tho because you are definetelly not it. Cheers

>>13241596
CIA attached Messianic mythos into the fabric of Socialism

>>13241605
Capitalism is such a success that being suicidal has become a part of mainstream culture and so many people are taking their own lives it's literally lowering the life expectancy of the country.

>>13241427
>literally doesn't know what liberalism is
OK, this explains the entire thread. File it in the "American Dumbass" section.

>>13241608
Eisenhower told District of Columbia officials to make Washington a model for the rest of the country in integrating black and white public school children

Nixon legalized gays

>>13241920
the Frankfurters wanted to turn society into complete shit so that goyim revolt against Capitalism and finally establish Communism

The CIA saw in their ideas a great way to destroy pro-Worker movements and cull the population at the same time

Frankfurters were too far up their messianic-kabalist bullshit fantasy to realize that when you degrade society you dont get a Communist revolution against Capitalism, what you get is Brazil and Haiti

What (((they))) touch always turns to shit

>>13242005
The largest portion of the right in America, not the largely subcultural far-right we meet on 4chan, cannot tell the difference between leftists and liberals. You will unironically see accusations of leftism towards people like Hilary Clinton and Rachael Maddow and their involvement in some sort of communist plot, the democratic party as a whole is often wrapped up in these accusations too. These people effectively cannot see leftists.
This is only recently starting to change thanks to, of all people, AOC and Sanders. But there's still a substantial portion of middle America who believe Sanders and Biden to have essentially the same program.
This isn't good for the left, btw. It's testament to how marginalized leftism of any consequence has become since the post-WW2 era.

>>13242352 >>13242502
the Frankfurt school saw National Socialism, Stalinism, state capitalism, and mass culture as entirely new forms of social domination that Critical Theory FAILED to explain and predict... so let's keep changing the theory to keep our jobs

>>13242397
let them be traditionalist and pro-family like Stalin was. Liberalism is a hellscape of nihilism and the average communist lives there too.

>>13242509
>>13242500
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
STOP GOLD MINING FAGGOT!

>>13242497
Why would you even lie like that? Who do you think you're fooling?
These things are reported even by the establishment media.

>socially conservative Old Leftism
When will this meme end? This only happened when Communist parties were forced to openly rule, see the accounts of sexual decadence in Russia in the early stages of Communist rule. Since Leftism is a centralizing elite mobilizing the margins, when they actually succeed at fully centralizing power they're forced to rule properly. Most of the American degenerates of the time (60s) were also Communists in Communist orgs.