/lit/ - Literature

You're taking her out of context you basedboy

Because the discourse the they’ve developed on the subject is more about scoring points in debates rather than creating a society where meaningful coexistence can occur.

>>13238071

Women's suffrage was a mistake.

>>13238071
Maybe just prove you are a better writer.
>muh wypipo
doesn't count.

>>13238071
pictograph / hieroglyph race memory

>>13238083
It’s worse in context if anything.

>>13238071
Jonah from Tonga is probably better than anything she has written

Fuck niggers and fuck publication jannies.

>>13238083
No, even in context she still thinks white people shouldn't write. The rest of that quote says only marginalised people should be writing so we can hear their voices and stories. I get what you're trying to say, but that quote had nothing to do with white people writing non-white characters. This woman also has a pleb view of art. She thinks you can only write from personal experience. She has zero imagination or creativity.

>>13238135

It's a clown world. Let's honk all the way down as all returns to nothing!

>>13238071
What the fuck does "taking up space" even mean?

Why is it always some second or third generatiom asshat?

>>13238161
Most people don't read extensively on a subject. They read the most well known or easiest to read book on a subject. This is why 1984, Catcher in the Rye, The Stranger, etc. are the most popular literary works. They are extremely well known and easy to read. Most people don't go further than this unless they have a strong interest. So by taking up space, she is implying people are going to see WHITE MALE AUTHORS as good entry points and voices of authority on any given subject, whereas the MARGINALISED MINORITIES will be overlooked even though their works may be better and more authoritative. So people will only access minority works if they have a strong interest, otherwise they're just going to read some white dude's book. Take being black in America for an example. Your average person will have read To Kill A Mockingbird and maybe some Twain or Faulkner. Because these are white authors they are given precedent and seen as more canonical/must read compared to Native Son or Invisible Man which are pushed to the side and only accessed if there is strong interest.

>>13238182
They get nostalgic for a culture they never experienced

>>13238071
Then get the fuck out of a white country, leech

>>13238161
She doesn't want to expend her thought labour value.

>>13238071
The only ones who can write good fiction are white men and women, plus some token Japanese and Chinese authors. She's jelly

>>13238277
White people are a construct.

The root of all of this is the pathetic cult of micro celebrity in writing. Useless, untalented men and women human centipeding each other to generate dumbfuck ideas, people and books as fast as possible. It's nothing less than greed and pride.

Uncanny how much she looks like my ex when she had long hair.

>>13238211
I don't know who these "average people" are who would read Faulkner, Lee, and Twain for the racial commentary without knowing Baldwin, Ellison, or Wright as well. And if white authors didn't write those popular works about race, I bet you would be complaining about "wypipo erasing black suffering." Whether whites write about blacks or not, shitheads like Winnie Dunn will find an excuse to screech.

>>13238071
Is there anything more cloying than the millenial/coastal academic elite language game surrounding the word "space"?

>>13238071
>WOC

That's a polynesian-anglo hybrid, you fucking idiot.

>>13238292
Then be a white person you fucking pajeet

>>13238366
WOC is de facto one drop nonwhite with a vagina or HRT.

>>13238071

In my perfect world, no one reads WOC author's books, only their glorified blogposts for their 'fans' who don't have the attention span to read a full novel. Then they get lost to the sands of time because in reality no one ever gave a shit.

Oh wait, we're already there, lmao.

>>13238350
wow that's so sardonic and witty dude im really impressed!!

>>13238392
>WOC is de facto one drop nonwhite with a vagina or HRT.

You should be less superfluous with your classifications...

>>13238410
see >>13238410

>>13238410
I actually found nothing sardonic or witty. It's terrifying to think of the power these young ladies have, peeing and pooing on niggas

>>13238135
>The rest of that quote says only marginalised people should be writing so we can hear their voices and stories.
Funny that, because in the same exact stroke, she marginalizes whites.

>>13238293
Yeah syntellectual art has mostly been PLEBIAN. And non-universal, as some other poster mentioned, they have no imagination or even (broadly) symbolism. I still have hope, however naive.

>>13238135
>only marginalized people
So, White people? Weird creatures, these mystery meats.

>>13238410
why are there so many faggots who have this effeminate sarcastic tone lately

>>13238135
It’s such a shallow view of art. It’s really not surprising that, even though they’re quick to brag about their creative abilities, no one on the left has produced anything worthwhile in decades. I don’t think there’s any inherent depth to what is called oppression or the experiences that accompany it, and making that relation the central focus of anything will inevitably render that thing shallow.

>>13238350
pee pee poo poo brapper feminism
the end
what a great story

>>13238071
It's one hundred percent true. Yall think im joking but I unironically hate white people and i especially hate contemporary white authors ask me anything not pertaining to your hwhite mother.

>>13238182
They're assimilating to American (elite) culture, as in, chiding the masses for their perceived moral deficiencies.

>in my ideal world

And why anyone would care about this?

>>13238571
Also, high-caste Pajeets seem to be kindred spirits of the Anglo-American brahmim.

>>13238476
osmosis

>>13238135
>>13238500
She's completely right. White people writing about the experiences of indigenous/oppressed groups of people usually come out very cringy or inauthentic. They have too much of a blind spot that is derived from their privilege. I know that you feel personally attacked, but consider the truth of it. No matter how "creative" you are you simply can't write about what it's like to be a women. Good authors know this --that is why they interview/consult experts when writing about something they're not fully equipped to write about. This isn't controversial.

>>13238083

If the intent of the statement was supposed to be :

>In my ideal world, white people would not feel the need to write [about the experiences of marginalized groups of which they are not members] anymore

I could get behind that.

But the full context does not communicate that well :

>“In my ideal world white people would not feel the need to write anymore,” she smiles. “They’d give up all that space for marginalised voices to come to the centre and speak for themselves. But obviously, that’s not going to happen.”

Instead it comes off more as waxing poetic about a world where white people are marginalized rather than non-white people.

A truly talent writer could communicate the first idea without implying the second.

>>13238612
>privilege
No such thing
>No matter how "creative" you are you simply can't write about what it's like to be a women
This is why liberals can't create art anymore

>>13238612
maybe indigenous/oppressed writers should stop being shit and produce something of value

>>13238612
you're right my bad
guess i'll just go write another story about a bored middle age white male author

>>13238612
By that token women can't write men either and in fact all anyone can write is an autobiographical novel

>>13238071
>>13238090
>>13238099
>>13238106
>>13238111
>>13238121
>>13238123
>>13238135
>>13238144
>>13238161
>>13238182
>>13238277
>>13238287
>>13238292
>>13238326
>>13238331
>>13238350
>>13238360
>>13238366
>>13238372
>>13238392
>>13238396
>>13238410
>>13238522
>>13238500
>>13238571
>>13238554
>>13238582
>>13238608
>>13238626
>>13238627
>>13238646
>>13238634
Have sex, incels

>>13238612
>White people writing about the experiences of indigenous/oppressed groups of people usually come out very cringy or inauthentic.
We do the same thing about our own condition. The point is that, by turning life into fantasy, you ennoble life so that it may pursue the fantasy and climb out of the shit that it finds itself in. Perhaps the real problem here is that minorities can't actually live up to the fantasies we've provided and now seek to tear them down.

>>13238211
>Native Son or Invisible Man which are pushed to the side

Wright and Ellison are beyond forced memes in America.

>>13238666
Begone, Satan.

>>13238612
I don’t feel personally attacked. I just feel that her perspective is irredeemably shallow. There is no inherent depth to the oppression or the experiences that accompany it. Authenticity isn’t inherently good or desirable when you have nothing to express other than the desire to feel more comfortable ( which is the end goal of those whose viewpoint centralized on oppression). It becomes a sentimental whining designed to give a high to those who agree with it. A white males take on those people would be more interesting just because it’s capable of amounting to something else.

Maybe you should go back to pretending Baldwin’s sentimental whining is deep and radical. It’s really all you’re capable of.

>>13238071
Winnie the Dumb

>>13238612
In that same article she poo-pooed white authors interviewing minorities to better understand their experience and perspective. She LITERALLY means that white people should not write.

>>13238500
>I don’t think there’s any inherent depth to what is called oppression or the experiences that accompany it, and making that relation the central focus of anything will inevitably render that thing shallow.

It's Christianity without Christ. There are literally thousands of years of Western adulation of Christ's suffering and martyrdom that are baked into every midwit Westerner (and that's what Ms Dunn is whether she admits it or not) so they immediately register "suffering" as meaningful and important, regardless of context. The doings of brown people are also automatically assumed to be of the highest importance.

Moldbug actually laid this out pretty well in his explanation of 'High-Low vs. Center'. Why for seemingly no sane reason wretched, worthless and unpalatable groups, concepts, lifestyles etc. are held up and lauded, or imported/created if too few can be found already within a liberal-democratic society.

Liberal societies need a mass underclass that can be given a small taste of institutional power which they know they could never and have never achieved on their own, making them wholly dependent on and loyal to the ruling class and its system of governance. This makes for an effective battering ram against the middle class and its interests, which is itself the biggest threat and roadblock to the ambitions of the ruling class.

>>13238819
It’s a little more than that when you consider the argument. As far as they’re concerned the gospels would be inauthentic because their authors did not live the experience of the tortured son of god who is also god himself. These works are ultimately just the ramblings of people with messiah complexes.

If I had the confidence of a member of a minority group who just learned the lingo of critical race theory, I’d be able to conquer the world.

Resentment which is fueled by a political class that salivates at the thought of expropriating white property.

>>13238849
see also bioleninism by spandrell

>>13238646
>>13238665
>these strawmans
All that comment is pertaining to is writing about the experiences of indigenous people. It doesn't mean to only write about what you've personally experienced. You can write about slaying dragons, being a vampire, being rich, etc. It's about the oppressor (White) having the gall to write about the experience and culture of the indigenous people they have oppressed. All you're going to produce is a one-dimensional, watered-down story with a narrow and inaccurate view of their culture. The arrogance it must take for white people to think they can "capture" the experience of the indigenous people. It's downright embarrassing. Instead of coming up with straw-mans, try to understand the perspective of other people.

>>13238071
>*likes DFW in your path*

>>13238819
She has a race-based interest that sets her apart from the midwit westerner, who is white. The Anglo American is particularly vulnerable to that race-based liberalism, because they're taught to feel bad about Negroes, which they extrapolate onto all people and countries, in a binary. One is either a Negroe, or is White. It doesn't matter if the two groups in question are both Han, Bantu, etc. etc. Someone has to fulfill the role of the Negroe so a westerner can make a moral judgement of the situation. Out-groups can see this and use it for their own group benefit.

>>13238923
>All that comment is pertaining to is writing about the experiences of indigenous people
see >>13238802
>It's about the oppressor (White)
you're not oppressed
>The arrogance it must take for white people to think they can "capture" the experience of the indigenous people. It's downright embarrassing. Instead of coming up with straw-mans, try to understand the perspective of other people.
>"have more empathy by having less empathy"
I wonder why no one takes this position seriously

Because they didn't earn their way, only because agents are signing up anyone who can write passably because they are PoC

She probably is well aware she hasn't had to work as hard as she should have, and takes out that guilt onto others. Either that, or she was rewarded for being special in some way - a Chosen One. Annointed.

tl;dr undeserved success turns people into entitled assholes. Ask anyone who has worked under a 'son of'.

>>13238802
She should write in her own damned language instead of stealing mine.

Well, obviously English is superior, but these people will ruin it.

>>13238923
Yeah and indigenous people cant capture the experience of white people either, so they shouldnt write about them.

>>13238135
Why should we? Maybe they are 'marginal' to begin with because they are not worthwhile.

>>13238612
True.

Oppressed people aren't really worth writing about. This is why civilization is on the decline.

We should only care about greatness.

Fuck losers.

>>13238923
>white authors write about the "oppressed"
>WTF STOP TAKING UP POC'S SPACE FUCKING WYPIPO I SWEAR
>white authors don't write about the "oppressed"
>WTF WHY ARE WYPIPO IGNORING THE RACIST ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM?
A big pill is understanding that progressives WANT to find fault with white writers. The day that white people finally "get it right" according to these losers is the day that they lose their excuse to be losers. Thus, white fiction will never be enough for you jackasses.

Phew I hope in the future we just laugh at how cringe this intersectional shit is. (Who am I kidding)

>>13239011
Unless there is an even catastrophic enough to shake the left out of their dominant cultural position, it’s not going to happen.

>>13239003
You're making things up now. If you can find me a quote where she is triggered about white people not writing about the oppressed, I'll be happy to have a look at it. Otherwise, you're responding to an imaginary poster that I cannot see. Also, the problem is writing about the EXPERIENCE of the indigenous people and their culture. If you want to include an indigenous character in your story, go ahead.

>>13238211
At the end of the day, no one gives a shit about marginalized people. The reason they don't is that people are marginalized precisely because they haven't proven their worth to broader society.

True, rich white or Jewish kids don't have to - they get handed a lot, but that's the way of the world. If people who are victims concentrated on making themselves into something other than victims then they would not be 'marginal'.

Salman Rushdie,Cixin Liu, Murakami, Rohinton Mistry all proved themselves by just being good writers, not "waaah, pay attention to me I'm oppressed and you have to listen to what I say!"

No. You are not important until you MAKE YOURSELF important.

>>13239095
> Also, the problem is writing about the EXPERIENCE of the indigenous people and their culture. If you want to include an indigenous character in your story, go ahead.
But I don’t see why authenticity as she sees it is the inherently superior way of doing this. I really think more the authentic portrayal of these things are inherently shallow.

>>13238428
Only after they've stopped being so superfluous with creating titles for themselves.

>>13238161
It means existing. She wants white people to stop existing.

>>13238090
wtf r u even saying bro

>>13238666
>Satan telling people to fornicate
Typical

>>13238500
In fairness neither has the right. Consumer middle aged woman Oprah book club lit has subsumed everything. We're fucked.

>>13238071
Looks like your feelings got hurt

>>13238071
Why do every one of them always have that same smug cunt smile?

>>13239528
The standardization of their discourse has led to the homogenization of their personalities.

Why do these non-white writers always focus so much on the fact that they're not white and make such a big fucking deal about white people?
Like there's nothing wrong with being a bitter and contentious cunt, plenty of great writers were exactly that, but they usually added more to their work than just that, or they managed to use this as an aesthetic platform (pic related). But authors like the cunt in the OP never seem to be able to rise above this.

>>13239573
Because it's part of their life experience you retard. It's like all those writers that write about being a writer

>>13238071
Why are MONC the only ones allowed to be nasty shits?

>>13239573
The role of nonwhites (really, foreigners) in an American context is to agitate about their foreign-ness so as to promote a narrative that we aren't living up to Our Values which serve as a pretext for various idiotic decisions by the ruling elite.

how much longer are we going to put up with this shit?

The core message isnt that bad either. If you want to know more about a community or culture, it's best to ask a member of that community/culture. That's a simple concept. It's just laced with this weird clickbaity "woke" language. I'm not sure why some people feel the need to use those words, but this is 4chan so FUCK WOMEENNNN MAAAN! THEY WONT HAV THE SEXCKS WITH MEE!!!!!!

>>13240825

Fuck off, tranny.

>>13238099
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOZr9DD0gMg

I hope this video makes your day happier.

>>13240881
she said white people shouldn't write anymore, not white people shouldn't write about poc. i don't understand what it wrong with the brains of people like you. it's like you're incapable of not taking the side of one of these narcissists no matter how ridiculous their views. i mean there's a difference between not being racist and just not having any self-respect.

>>13240888
No, Nazi-yiffer. Why are men of no color the only ones allowed to be nasty shits?

>>13240930
>of no color
the preferred term is People of Light

>>13238959
>you're not oppressed

Indigenous people are oppressed

>>13240968
I agree the white indigenous peoples of Europe are oppressed

>>13238500
>no one on the left has produced anything worthwhile in decades.

What is basically all media?

The problem isn't that the left is not creative, the problem is that art will reach one one-millionth of the people a movie or tv show will. All the creative power of the left is poured into popular media rather than art.

Besides it's not like the right has produced any art of significance in decades either.

>>13240930

Know your place when you talk to me, faggot.

>>13240938
Whatever you say, blanco

(Says the uber pale girl)

>>13240974
Yes, all people indigenous to earth are oppressed by our lizard overlords

>>13240997
And who are you supposed to be, NPC #13240997

>>13240990
>What is basically all media?
Certainly NOT worthwhile.

>>13241000
>girl

>>13241005

I could ask you the same question, tripfag. Just who the fuck do you think you are?

>>13238071
fuck you you racist piece of shit, take your medieval prejudices and go fuck yourself. Humanity is moving forward and recognizes the moral worth and dignity of all people regardless of skin color, and you racist pathetic worm are alone and have no future.

>>13241016
I am just me
I am a Unique nothing
I am a meme
I Am

Nice book only tangentially related

>>13241026
Yikes


Not even liberals have the decency to grant the negroes the dignity of managing their own countries, that's why they give them billions in handouts.

>>13241027

If in some other world you were a real, flesh and blood woman, I might just have bent you over on the nearest table and set you right myself, cunt. Try spouting your nonsense when you're busy drinking the fruit of my loins, bitch.

>>13241034
Africa has many challenges in its path towards economic and political development, but it is moving forward and regardless this has no bearing on the moral worth of African people themselves: we are all humans and we are all struggling together to develop the advanced technology required to reduce existential risk and colonize space in order to ensure our long-run survival as a species. Pathetic racism and sexism and misogyny is a historic relic and is being eliminated through the advancement of culture and technocapital. Cast aside your useless hateful prejudices or be forgotten as a wretched virus soon be destroyed.

>>13241047
>this has no bearing on the moral worth of African people
In the eyes of the liberal who deems them as unfit to manage their own countries, it obviously has.
At least most "racists" deem blacks worthy of ruling their own countries.

>we are all struggling together to develop the advanced technology required to reduce existential risk and colonize space in order to ensure our long-run survival as a species.
That is just false. 99.999% of people are doing nothing to further those goals.

>being eliminated through the advancement of culture and technocapital
No, capital is just suppressing racism in order to maximize profits. Anyway if they actually managed to make non-whites stop being racist, that would be something.

>Cast aside your useless hateful prejudices
They are exclusively POSTjudices, being around non whites is the only thing in the world that has ever made me dislike them.

how does one even find this absolute shit? ignore this nobodies and read the greats. who gives a fuck about the latest establishment meme of the day minority "artist"...everyone knows the real art of this generation is being created in spaces like these anyway, anyone paying attention that is.

>>13241047
>history trends towards good and progress like my harry potter stories
fucking lol. China, the Muslim world, Africa, don't give a single shit about your faggot values, and white people increasingly dont care either. swallow a handful of needles

>>13238182
Recent migrants, however trash, retain too much residue of their original culture to fully commit to the globohomo which preys on uprooted people.

>>13238923
>you can describe anything
>except my people you shithead
What the fuck, herodotus btfo, Titus livus btfo.

>>13240816
It's not that it's a big part of their life, it's that it's the only part of their life. There's apparently nothing more to them

Alright guys I'm going on break I'll be back to post more later who wants to go next??

>>13238071
People of color generally have no abstract thoughts about the objective world. They just bitch and complain about white people because they wish they had the status and resources that white people have.

They're pathetic. Asian writers are ok though

>>13238626
Im certain she means white people not writing at all. She sounds like one of these Revolutionary urbanistas who think all white men should give up any positions of authority, including those in cultural expression.

IF it was the first then white people will get criticised either way. Included a character of X culture, thats appropriation. Have an all white cast off characters? Wheres the diversity?

>>13239066
>left
>dominant cultural position
lol

>>13240930
Kill yourself

>>13241717
They control the schools and media and it's why every kid that's coming of age think the exact same way on so many issues.

>>13241722
90% chance it's a Marxist retard who will absolutely refuse to understand what the word 'left' means

She's cute I would let her bully me

>>13238090
nice one. you've earned this point!

>>13241736
How would she do that

>>13241741
I haven't thought that far ahead but demeaning me and telling me I'm worthless something like that
Teasing me etc.
yes i know it's pathetic but I'm starved and desperate for any female attention

>>13241747
Maybe you should write about it. We could work on it together. See, I am a very normal person that doesn't like to be bullied by young girls at all. Our differences would compliment each other very handsomely.

>>13241752
That sounds nice but I'm not much of a writer. I just have sick, depressed sexual fantasies because of a lifelong porn addiction and depression. But something like that would be interesting I agree.
>she will never laugh at my penis

>>13241722
it's true that most of the teachers and media are left.
but you forget everyone wants to rebel when they hit puberty. there is a trend in gen z becoming more right wing then ever before. we had elections here a few weeks ago and the most right wing party got the most votes because of young people.

>>13241755
You know man...bear with me..maybe I have magical powers after all. Because I can see you. I can't make out any physical features. Only inside. You think you're done for. But I can see a flame inside of you that is about to ignite. I'm not messing around, I've never seen this before, not with anyone else. You're not addicted. You're going to soar..and I know it will happen , I can see it..I can see it! Perfect clarity is running through. This is incredible stuff
Go ! Go! Fly!

>>13241764
Thanks anon, I really appreciate it. I've been taking steps in the right direction and have gotten a job now, going out more and getting better at talking to people. But it's still hard and I still have problems getting through the days.
god i am so fucking lonely i just wish i had someone to hold onto, someone who needed me and I could be there for jesus christ

>>13241772
You don't wanna get through the days...you want them to slow down. It's all gotta slow down. Completely frozen shut. That's how the moment of clarity finds you

>>13238071
100% of this screeching about white men comes from a place of resentment. A deep place of seething and resentment. Cos they've bought into the idea that being white and/or a man is some kind of golden ticket for living an easy life- and yet their lives are full of suffering. So whites and men must be punished for this injustice. It's the most pathetic way of engaging with the world imaginable, pathetic and moronic and for some reason trendy. It's almost like women are lacking in critical reasoning skills or something.

>>13241783
I really like women, I just don't like the hatred ridden brainwashing they are subjected to what seems like more so than boys.

>>13241772
Following up, what brought you to porn in the first place? For me i probably never would have had a problem with it at all if I had ANY Adult supervision in my adolescents.. after I was 12 it was just me and my dad and that poor guy didn't get home from work till around 10 back then. I should call him, I live 2000 miles away from him. He's doing way better now

>>13238612
Good, then I will never read anything by a nigger or a woman, seeing as how I can't relate to it either way - why bother?

>>13241801
Pretty much the same thing. Home alone with an internet connection and no parents. It was only natural that I got into porn at that age. It's just been so constant over the past decade I don't know how to stop and live without it. It's instinctual.

>>13239573
That's because there is nothing more to them than this

>>13239003
>A big pill is understanding that progressives WANT to find fault with white writers.

It really helps when you stop caring about "not being racist" and look after your own. They'll never absolve you of your racial original sin anyway.

Besides, aren't most American writing journals/magazines owned and staffed by Jews nowadays? Why are PoCs still bitching about whites when white men (aside from a few token gays) have been effectively locked out of the prestigious liberal arts rags?

>>13241966
Because "white supremacy" and "toxic masculinity" have become go to explanations for literally everything.

>>13238459
Heh, guess them dang liberals are actually hypocrites, we're really smart for noticing

>>13241047
t. Steven Pinker

>>13238071
>gets paid to write
>implies this doesnt literally all come down to advertising
All of the pigs will be slaughtered

>>13238500
Pynchon is a liberal

>>13238182
It is all ressentiment, it really is. The blame game.

>>13241966
Yeah, and only a fraction of a percentage of white people owned slaves, yet it is whites they want reperations from.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JxbjvvpDNQ
bwahahahaha

>>13242526
A lot of minorities think Jews are white anyway, so it works out.