/lit/ - Literature

I like Chesterton but he's been tainted for me by all the smug self-satisfied "Heh, don't you know being reactionary is what's revolutionary these days?" traditionalist Catholic fuckfaces at the college I go to

>>13222344
>"Heh, don't you know being reactionary is what's revolutionary these days?" traditionalist Catholic fuckfaces at the college I go to
This is an actual thing now outside blogs?

>>13222344
To clarify, I agree with them, it's just the shallow smugness that's annoying.

>>13222353
Yeah, though as with any movement or cultural turn or whatever, it's always the most tepid and diluted version of itself that it could possibly be. We're not allowed to have Chestertons anymore, instead what we get is a bunch of people smug for having read (or intending at some point to read) Chesterton.

Feser and neo-neo-Thomism is another one. Fine, come up to me and challenge me to Dragonball Z fights on the spiritual plane over your master plan to rehabilitate Aristotelianism and destroy relativism for all time. But don't dissolve into platitudes and equivocations when I throw the first punch and ask you what the fuck your positive program actually is, what hard ground you actually stand on.

>>13222371
I have never had a conversation like this, where the fuck do you live

>>13222355
Sperg-tastic post

i bet the majority of catholic larpers on this site have never been to church

>>13222335
Everlasting Man was even better imo.

>>13222385
Bäsna

>>13222335
I thought Christianity was pretty lit too. . . until I met some actual Christians and learned a little about the ancient myths. Your ancestors probably prayed to Zeus or Thor or Perun - and you should too. It will make you happier and healthier and smarter and will bring you good luck and courage. Great men did so for a long, long time.

>>13222335
Islam
>Toss gays off roofs
>Diligant traditionalist rituals
>Imbued with political power
>Warrior prophet btfos non-believers

Christianity
>Pretend to like gays, most priests are gay
>Easy "rituals" for the fat and lazy
>Cucked by secularism
>SJW prophet who preaches equality and washes the feet of degenerates

Why are newfags obsessed with a cucked and bluepilled religion instead of the true redpilled one for chads?

Chesterton is my favorite writer of all time. His novels are severely underrated too.

>>13223083
Theyre honestly both bitchmade religions that are about submitting to an all powerful deity. Surely there is some less gay religion that involves telling the gods to fuck off or whatever.

>>13223083
Because gay rights is an issue that makes those with hearts lose faith in Islam.

>>13223090
People who tell the gods to fuck off tend to get roflstomped by said gods as a result. This happens all the time in Greek mythology.

>>13223070
could you elaborate?

>>13223139
On what point? why I have serious criticisms of Christianity or why I endorse paganism/heathenism?

Chesterton btfos pseuds so /lit/ hates him

>>13222371
based. how do you respond to fesercucks?

Don't know what he is about but Orwell literally pisses on him and rest the other catholics

The wittiest writer in the English language

>>13223202
Shaw

>>13223216
Irish though, also same for him >>13223190

>>13223239
>English language

>>13222335
Is this better than Mere Christianity?

>>13223083
If you are no Chad, no religion will make you.

>>13222335
how his glasses stay on tho

>>13223249
They have a different focus honestly. Chesterton is more interested in defending traditionalism

>>13223093
? Fags should be burned alive

>>13223286
that's not very catholic of you

>>13223190
Orwell was a fag who had no real understanding of religion. Which is not surprising given that he was a socialist.

>>13223294
This. Chesterton is probably the most lucid, understandable anti-materialist I've ever read. People shitting on him are just grasping at straws.

>>13223070
You didn't go far back enough retard, all western religion and mythos comes from the levant.

>>13223417
Just antichristian spergs. Why do people still try to be disingenuous, the golden age of lying is over.

>>13222371
Thank God someone else has met these people. A relatively conservative college is a weird place.

>>13223294
To Orwell, Catholism and the Marxism is same thing.

>>13222335
>surprised Chesterton doesn't get more love here
This is a Japanese cartoon board for edgy teenagers. Not really the target audience, my man.

>>13223260
Pure divine grace.

>>13223490
that's the exact audience.

>>13223190
Orwell was mostly (openly) salty about what he saw as Chesterton's servility and uncritical worship of the Italians and French. Most likely there was also a lot of underlying envy there given that Chesterton was a genuine optimist whereas Orwell was the kind of person who writes essays about why it's morally right to bomb civilians in war.

>>13222371
Based, I could say the same of Benjaminites.

>>13223070
>this bullshit
>not pre-IE shamanism
Step up, steppelarper.

>>13223070
come on son

>he doesn't pray to the sun god
lmao
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jJkdRaa04g

>>13222335
Even contact with angels didn't make me Christian for more than about five minutes. Fuck Christianity.

>>13223117
Have you fucking read The Illiad? Achilles literally ignores a God who tries to kill him. Sure, he dies in the end, but that was fate, not punishment.

>>13222335
Imagine being so intellectually weak that some slapdash rhetoric prompts you to convert LOL

>>13222335
>surprised Chesterton doesn't get more love here
1/10
We see daily threads slatherin this doof with praise

>>13223156
your pagan/heathen view of worshipping your ancestors gods instead of the abrahamic god

>>13223973
No we don't, we just see you being an idiot day in day out

>>13223156
>I endorse paganism/heathenism
Lmao

>>13223521
...as in Walter Benjamin?

>>13222335
As usual, a quote can clear things up.
>The most immediately striking thing about the English Roman Catholics ... is their intense self-consciousness. Apparently they never think, certainly they never write, about anything but the fact that they are Roman Catholics; this single fact and the self-praise resulting from it form the entire stock-in-trade of the Catholic literary man. But the really interesting thing about these people is the way in which they have worked out the supposed implications of orthodoxy until the tiniest details of life are involved. Even the liquids you drink, apparently, can be orthodox or heretical; hence the campaigns of Chesterton, 'Beachcomber', etc., against tea and in favour of beer. According to Chesterton, tea-drinking' is 'pagan', while beer-drinking is 'Christian', and coffee is 'the puritan's opium'. It is unfortunate for this theory that Catholics abound in the 'Temperance' movement and the greatest tea-boozers in the world are the Catholic Irish; but what I am interested in here is the attitude of mind that can make even food and drink an occasion for religious intolerance. A working-class Catholic would never be so absurdly consistent as that. He does not spend his time in brooding on the fact that he is a Roman Catholic, and he is not particularly conscious of being different from his non-Catholic neighbours. Tell an Irish dock-labourer in the slums of Liverpool that his cup of tea is 'pagan', and he will call you a fool.

>>13224163
I'm a devout Catholic, and reading this just makes me realize how little Orwell understood anything about what it means to be devout. Like, he really comes across as very stupid here.

If you've become immersed in a devout practice of a religion, especially a religion with deep traditions like Catholicism, it eventually colors every aspect of your life. Even aspects of your life that were previously outside any religious consideration become colored with your practice of the Faith, because you realize that God is massive and encompasses all of reality. God is in the very big, true, but omnipotence and omniscience mean that God is also in the very small, and even ordinary, mundane things may take on a sacramental, mystical quality.

Converts are always more sensitive about these sorts of things than most cradle believers, because when you convert to a religion you take a deep and profound interest in it, and you allow it to influence you profoundly, in precisely the way I described above. It's no surprise to me at all that a convert to Catholicism like Chesterton would consider his religion a thing that involves every aspect of his life, including whether to drink tea versus whether to drink beer. Orwell's failure to grasp this is disappointing, and proof of his limited appreciation for a religious perspective.

I read the first half of "the man who was Thursday" today and it was excellent. Way better than I thought it would be.

>>13224163
>>13224181 this. Also it seems rather obvious that Orwell misreads Chesterton's merry hyperbole- there's an obvious difference between a teetotaler abstinence and love of a thing. Orwell is reading Chesterton uncharitably, and actively so- his bias in that case is clear.

>>13224181
Perhaps you just don't realise how ridiculous you appear. If you are really defending moralism over tea and coffee you are simply out of touch with reality.
Orwell's criticism is certainly naive, but when ideas are incapable of reconciling such simple questions it shows how in opposition they are to natural laws. There is a visceral opposition to that which just simply should not be.

>>13223610
Are we talking about the same book all about respecting the gods, seers and their signs?

>>13224226
You want to talk uncharitable, or just stupid, let's look at Chesterton's complete misreading of paganism.
>The substance of all such paganism may be summarised thus. It is an attempt to reach the divine reality through the imagination alone; in its own field reason does not restrain it at all. It is vital to the view of all history that reason is something separate from religion even in the most rational of these civilisations. It is only as an afterthought, when such cults are decadent or on the defensive, that a few Neo-Platonists or a few Brahmins are found trying to rationalise them, and even then only by trying to allegorise them. But in reality the rivers of mythology and philosophy run parallel and do not mingle till they meet in the sea of Christendom.

>>13224014
Not him, but the Orwell quote is a good example >>13224163
Christians fall prey to the simplest criticism, to which they often require entire texts of moralism and rationalisation to confound the contradictions. Many of the pagan religions do not weaken in the face of such simple questions, and certainly not to the naive questions of a child.

Of course, Christians can write this off as the divide between human understanding and the divine presence which lies beyond the grasp of humans. Yet, the entirety of the religion is based on Logos and almost every book of the Bible is spent moralising over every little interaction between humans. The heavens, and particularly creation, are a minor aspect of the story. And it's interesting that Orwell's criticism is a microcosm of these irreconcilable contradictions, God is very much like these Anglo Catholics who love to parade total law over the insignificant.

There are extremely complex ideas behind religion, but I will say that much of the basis for a powerful and truthful religion comes down to the ineffable, cosmological dominion, the chasm of knowledge and belief, and the reconciliation of transcendence and nihilism. Christianity betrays each one of these laws, most clear in the subordination of faith to knowledge after declaring faith as the dominant law - but also in the ineffable, where the Bible is treated as the word and law of God himself, and His plan revealed, one might even say systematized. (This is also the power of Christiaity, but this is temporary, ephemeral rather than eternal as the laws of heaven should be.)

>>13224514
Again, this is not a problem in paganism, particularly the Greek. One must consult with the Oracle, who in turn must spend their whole life in sacrifice just to catch glimpses of the gods, of heavenly justice. There is a clear divide maintained between humanity and the deathless, and in the Theogony almost the entire book is spent on creation - humans are irrelevant. Humility is thus written into the form.

Even further than this, many of the Christian God's actions betray both a lack of knowledge and faith, in his own power and his sovereignty over the world. One need only look to his indecisiveness and cruelty, creating the Logos of human sin and then punishing them for the very actions he forced upon them. And in no way is this confined to the Old Testament, as the theologians will insist (Romans, for example, where God forces the people into sodomy and then punishes them for it). This is a complete lack of understanding of authority and love for a people, even mediocre human leaders would recognise how ineffectual such methods are. God, then, must be something other than the absolute creator who rules heaven and earth out of love.

In this one can perhaps see a loss of essence. If God must destroy that which he loves, then his love no longer is. Divine essence must be eternal, even beyond the laws of time, and beyond any human sense of exhaustion. If God betrays his very being then what is he? Is he not then evil? If the pious is no longer loved by God, and if what he loves is no longer pious then he has betrayed the very law of the heavens. He betrays the good, and not only this, he also betrays the laws of evil, and relies upon good acts to maintain relations of evil. This is, in the Platonic sense, what allows for the pure form of Evil: total corruption of the Good. Without essence there can only be the reign of the arbitrary - certainly powerful, but only in a destructive sense, lacking vitality. The Death of God, in the Nietzschean sense, is thus written into the laws of the Bible. The Human must retain his dignity, he can withstand the death of the world, even find freedom in it, but he cannot permit the betrayal of all being permitted. God dies when he betrays this final law.

>>13224515
Pagan myths rely upon completely other forces, there is a great sense of justice and humility in that the gods can never be diminished. Their essence is written into the dominion of their world, like the river that constantly changes, even reverses against itself. One can never step into it the same way twice, but for the god its being is never diminished, it eternally retains the same form. Many of the gods even retain their essence when they are defeated or imprisoned. There is a great power and vitality in this, a turning and weaving of force and beauty as the myth is capable of appearing as its own living world - as in Actaeon, Arachne, or Narcissus, clearly less significant than Prometheus, and yet divine laws rise within the story as a moment of perfection. The force of dominion and sovereignty cannot be diminished, and so there is a constancy of recreation in even the lesser gods - a form of being which gives us a sense of the ineffable.

And this is why paganism is returning. One begins to sense a realm completely lost, even desecrated, by Christianity. Moral will is exhaustible, just like the God who commands it, and Man cannot live in a world completely opposed to its laws. The Christian simply cannot comprehend or reconcile with modernity.

(Hopefully that makes sense, I'm too tired to go over it now.)

>>13222335
I just finished this book. I enjoyed the force of his wit and his metaphors though it does start to get repetitive in places. He also writes self-consciously at times, as if he was writing along and suddenly remembered the reader exists and decides to address him directly.
The part about how he views the world as a very fragile thing, like glass, with an inherent and inescapable mystery at its core - this was excellent and resonated with me.
He also made a good point bringing up how Christianity is often attacked for contradictory reasons (example, being too meek and also too violent at the same time).
I could go on, but there's no need to describe summarize the whole book like too most of those terrible goodreads reviews do. Overall I would recommend it to any anon especially those interested in metaphysics, philosophy of religion, or Christian apologetics.

>>13224510
There's a difference between a blatantly uncharitable reading of a quoted passage and just a gross oversimplification or wrong conclusion. Chesterton might be making a mistake or selling an overbroad narrative, but Orwell is being outright deceptive to serve his ideology.
And the idea that pre-Christian paganisn never intersected philosophy is a rather defensible observation, even if it breaks down in some of the examples he provides.

>>13223493
these days it genuinely is not even ironically

How could you be a Christian when God clearly doesn't exist

>>13224727
This is the problem I have with Christianity, the non-existence of God.

>>13223083
>islam is the warrior religion
>christianity is the cuck religion
funny how only one of these managed to conquer most of the world, and it isn't islam

>>13224735
Obviously if you have to have faith it was never about god.

>>13223070
Not really sure they did 1200 years ago but calling them my ancestors is a stretch.
My immediate ancestors magnet to survive slavery because of Christianity and got a really good alphabet out of it too, so pegan b's can fuck off as far as I'm concerned

>>13222335
Chesterton is not groundbreaking, but he's great in how sane he sounds. Works as a good supplement to Kierkegaard as far as converting people goes.

>>13224716
how do you explain his popularity on this board

>>13223090
If you did that in any city of antiquity they'd kill you

>>13223610
Have you?

"Mom *cries* plead with Zeus to get Agamemnon back for taking my concubine because I told him he was an idiot for defying the gods"

Achilles had a lot of gods on his side

>>13223216
He constantly shits on shaw (in hilarious fashion) in his essays

Is it true chesterton was a 6'4 Chad who got in street brawls? I cant find much information on his personal life

>>13225398
He shits on him but still greatly respects him. Now on Nietzsche he shits without any fondness.

>>13225404
Yeah Chesterton and Shaw were actually good friends irl, despite the bantz in their essays

Christians are evil

>>13224679
How so? What Orwell says is true.
And no, it's not a 'defensible observation'. It's stupid. Paganism didn't need philosophy or a descent into knowledge because it was beyond it. Philosophy is derived from Greek myth, it is a stream branching off from the main river.

>>13225402
Does he look like a Chad?

>>13222560
As a cradle-Catholic who actually goes to Mass every week, it actually pisses me off

Catholicism is pagan.

>>13225602
What Orwell says depends on taking hyperbole literally and railing against that interpretation without regard to any less literal meaning. Maybe I was unfair in calling it an uncharitable reading if you're mistaking it just as idiotically in exactly the same way, though.
You're also just reinforcing his point that pagan religion and philosophy rarely intertwined, and even if you make very different conclusions from that, the problem isn't "it's stupid", but difference of worldview.

>>13225718
>>13225718
No, because Christians really are like this. And as I said above even the Christian God is like this.
And typical Christian generosity, claiming knowledge and then resorting to insults. Nothing I said justifies Chesterton, being greater doesn't equate to being lesser.
Go learn basic logic.

I'm currently reading Heretics instead of Orthodoxy because I loved how spicy it sounds. So far not his strongest offering.

>>13223973
Try reading him. You might like The Ball and the Cross, a short book available on the internet archive...

>>13225604
>hunter eyes
>warrior skull
>6'4
Yeah

>>13222335
GKC is the person that almost got me to convert, although ultimately I understand Christianity too well to ever actually believe in it. But I would like to have met him, his religious faith had a robustness about it that made him based enough not to feel threatened just because someone else might hold a differing opinion, unlike the delicate snowflakes we have to put up with today...

>>13225604
>>13225806

>>13225806
Christcuck cope
Yikes

>>13222560
Just got back from Mass.

>>13225864
>yikes

>>13225824
Do you go to mass, try to believe, and so on? I think you're an almost Christian version of me.

>>13225824
>I understand Christianity too well to ever actually believe in it.
Please elaborate as to what you mean by this, I am curious to know more.

>>13226804
It is just that my understanding of Christianity's origins as a reform of Judaism, it's heavy modification after Paul, it's adoption of the iconography and many aspects of the theology of contemporary Solar cults as well as direct modifications by order of the Imperial Roman state get in the way of my spiritual side surrendering to faith in it. I am just too centered on the intellect as opposed to feelings, I suppose...
But if GKC himself were running a Church, I would probably join it, and at least try...but really it would be his bharisma that would get me there. Interestingly Max Weber wrote that all religious organisations began based on their leaders' charisma, and then descended into bureaucracy...

>>13226868
Are you a Neoplatonist by chance?

>>13226868
Can you clarify what theological changes derived from solar cults and Roman orders? The councils of the period didn't change much in that regard.
I wouldn't say that all religions become just a bureacracy, but it is a natural consequence of growth. It's impossible that all leaders in an empire-wide or worldwide religion maintain the charisma of the founder.

>>13225897
I have not been since I went to Midnight Mass with my (at that time) gf and her senpai, who went every year but were otherwise not overly observant. That was maybe twenty-five years ago.

>>13225897
I don't try to believe, to try is in a certain sense to fail when it comes to faith. But I am interested in and pursue religious and mystical experiences. If I were to put into words, I would say that these days I am a sort of Buddhist, of rather a secular sort.

>>13224181
You seem to be the one who misunderstood Orwell here. He's not attacking the idea that religion affects your relationship of even mundane, daily things, but the fact that you can use even the most mundane things as a fodde for controversy and an occasion to trumpet your religious leanings. He is right that such an attitude (if it can accurately ascribed to Chesterton, which I dubious but far from impossible) is ridiculous and even suspicious.

It would be another matter is there were explicit prescription in Christian doctrine for or against tea, for instance.

>>13226901
I don't think I would call myself one, but on the other hand I am not really well read on their thought. I have read some Iamblichus, for what it is worth.

>>13224757
Meh it's only post-Renaissance, when Christianity was starting to weaken, that the conquest of the Christians started to really eclipse those of the Muslim. And remember Christendom was kickstarted but the already established Roman Empire.

In the ends those religions didn't matter as much as we imagine in determining conquests.

>>13226985

I was thinking in terms of the ways Christianity was modified by the Roman state, which had heavily invested in a Solar "look", like by making Christmas fall on the solsticial festival of Sol Invictus, the use of Solar haloes, the tonsure for Solar and then later Christian priests, and of course the power of the state to enforce conformity.

>>13222560
Nice cope bug chaser

>>13222560
True. Anons are usually sedevacantist retards that spend most of their time arguing against lgbt rights.

>>13227174
>sedevacantist
I'm trad cath and not sede. Although I empathise, Francis is a fucking cuck.
> arguing against lgbt rights
Actually read the bible. Homosexuality is fucking disgusting, and homosexuals are unrepresentative sinners. We were once called to stone them to death; there was a reason for that.

>>13227179
Stop pretending to be Christian.
Stop pretending you go to mass on sundays.

>>13227179
lel did anons posting him kissing feet really get to you that much?

>>13226985
Re Weber and charisma:
Yeah, that is more or less what Weber felt, too. He used the Franciscans as an example, but we see the same thing in any organisation as it ages.

>>13227179
>I'm trad cath
>calls the Holy Father a "cuck"

Yeah right.

>>13227250
>>13227192
>>13227189
>no argument
KEK SEETHING
and yes I did go to mass today.

>>13222560
speak for yourself heretic. just got back from Mass

>>13223945
>calling Chesterton slapdash rhetoric
Now THAT is peak /lit/

>>13223973
Y A W N

>>13227074
>trumpet your religious leanings
even removing your bias, why wouldn't you celebrate your religious leanings as they should theoretically underpin and overach your entire view of consciousness itseld? Orwell doesn't understand religion

>>13227159
None of that is theological, it's mostly just aesthetic motifs. Also the date of Christmas being taken from solar festivals is dubious at best.
>>13227576
Butterfly is a disruptive idiot, but she's right that Chesterton is widely discussed here.

>>13223249
I think almost anything is better than Mere Christianity. That book is fucking embarrassingly bad.

>>13223928
is this a joke?

>put a buffer in front of the ancient cultures
>claim everything stems from that buffer

that's like saying the distortion is the true image and that the true image can only be viewed through that distortion

chesterton is just jbp for slightly more intelligent people

>>13222344
>being reactionary is what's revolutionary
what? i think if there's something reactionaries know is that they can't be revolutionaries

>>13225604
Chestie was a rolly polly fluffball who wrote about how he wanted to eat everything he saw.

>>13222560
Have sex.

>>13225538
from my point of view, the atheists are evil!

>>13227740
Have mass.

>>13227737
https://www.counter-currents.com/2012/08/the-german-conservative-revolution-and-its-legacy/

>>13222560
Wrong faggot. Went this morning.

>>13222344
>the smug self-satisfied "Heh, don't you know being reactionary is what's revolutionary these days?" traditionalist Catholic fuckfaces at the college I go to
Lol I know a few guys like this. One of them unironically dresses like the villian from Raiders of the Lost Ark

>>13227876
>Have mass
STFU larper

>>13227740
But seriously, find Christ, get baptized, and go to mass

>>13227739
Nice poem, Chestie btfo

>>13227709
No, Chesterton had severe autism.
Doublespeak is of Christian origin.

>>13227593
>christcucks constantly resorting to cope and personal attacks
Christians don't understand religion, especially their own.

>>13222335
Peak boomer literature.

>>13222335
>reaffirms my atheism in one sitting
Heh, everything personal Chesty.

Chesterton was a wrong, fat, unfunny adherent of a false religion. His writings are sentimentalist garbage of the lowest order. The fucker looked like he looked, and wore a cape. As such, he was a fedora among Catholics.

Take his aphorisms. He does the same unwitty, unfunny thing, over and over again:

"It seems to me that the trouble with x and y, is that there is not enough y in x. Oh dear me I'm so fat and clever, darling fetch my muumuu I must run an errand now~"

Absolutely interminable.

>>13223592
This man knows

>>13228362
i think it's Moldbug that argues that revolutions (even fascist ones) are always democratic and have to keep pandering to the lowest drives of the masses which works against establishing an efficient reactionary government

>>13227876
>>13228764
Go forth and multiply.

Stop reading the eternal Anglo, and read real Catholic literature.

>>13222560
How disconnected do you have to be to consider it incredible to go to mass?
It's not like it's the secret club of people with fathers working as illuminati at Nintendo.

>>13223216
>mfw they were good bros in life
Apparently all their meetings were shitposting sessions about each other.

>>13228918
That's a bit of a reaching/unwarranted response, the kind I've come to expect from disingenuous and stupid control freaks that vote left.

Threadly reminder that Chesteron didn't bathe.

How fucking embarrassing of a human being do you have to be to actually enjoy anything written by the same person who unironically wrote this:
>Not only is suicide a sin, it is the sin. It is the ultimate and absolute evil, the refusal to take an interest in existence; the refusal to take the oath of loyalty to life. The man who kills a man, kills a man. The man who kills himself, kills all men; as far as he is concerned he wipes out the world. His act is worse (symbolically considered) than any rape or dynamite outrage. For it destroys all buildings: it insults all women. The thief is satisfied with diamonds; but the suicide is not: that is his crime. He cannot be bribed, even by the blazing stones of the Celestial City. The thief compliments the things he steals, if not the owner of them. But the suicide insults everything on earth by not stealing it. He defiles every flower by refusing to live for its sake. There is not a tiny creature in the cosmos at whom his death is not a sneer. When a man hangs himself on a tree, the leaves might fall off in anger and the birds fly away in fury: for each has received a personal affront. Of course there may be pathetic emotional excuses for the act. There often are for rape, and there almost always are for dynamite. But if it comes to clear ideas and the intelligent meaning of things, then there is much more rational and philosophic truth in the burial at the cross-roads and the stake driven through the body, than in Mr. Archer’s suicidal automatic machines. There is a meaning in burying the suicide apart. The man’s crime is different from other crimes—for it makes even crimes impossible.

>>13230127
Anglo catholics are among the best though. Read Newman. Really confirms my suspicion that schism and heresy is what turned the anglos into a mess.
Frenchmen had industrialism, the flemish and Italians had ultra merchant behavior, Austria and Spain had imperialism. These things can't explain the eternal Anglo.

>>13230187
Many Europeans don't bathe.

>>13230283
Newman really became part of the Catholic Church, while Chesterton was just an Anglo larping as a Catholic.

>>13230200
What do you find embarrassing in this excerpt ?

>>13230200
holy based

>>13230294
That was actually just a brief period ironically associated with the renaissance

>>13230200
coping christcucks will defend this

>>13230200
That image you posted might be the single worst reading of Nietzsche I've ever seen, to say nothing of your post itself.

>>13230169
Not at all. I already explained it.
And interesting that the Christians here use canned responses and echoes of the disingenuous. On the scale of religions it doesn't get any more leftist than Christianity.

Absolutely generous...

>>13222335
Must be nice to be so easily lead.

>>13230771
>Cope
What is there to defend? He's absolutely right

>>13222344
Traditionalists love him but this dude used be a member of the Fabian Society, admired democracy, and was a distributist (socialist when it comes to implementation).

I don't really like Chesterton and Orthodoxy is just a polemic, not philosophy.

>>13231459
Distributism wouldn't've been implemented in any way like socialism has been. It's more similar to things like the periods of practically free land out west in America. It's also not something entirely condemned by any traditionalist I've met, though some would disagree with aspects of it.

>>13231459
it has a completely different conception of man than socialism even if there may be some degree of redistribution

>>13231459
Except his description of democracy was not "Democracy" as its generally touted

>>13231656
>>13231672
>Distributism wouldn't've been implemented in any way like socialism has been.
>it has a completely different conception of man than socialism even if there may be some degree of redistribution
"a certain kind of 'distributivism,' wherein property would be 'redistributed' by freely elected private charity—instead of by the government—is just properly functioning capitalism."

You either redistribute by a governmental force (as Belloc suggested) or society freely does this, hence the "properly functioning capitalism." Here's what Belloc says too: Distributism “will certainly fail if it is hampered by a superstition against the use of force."

>>13231656
>It's also not something entirely condemned by any traditionalist I've met, though some would disagree with aspects of it.
Yeah many traditionalists like distributism. I'm saying though, that distributism—along with democracy and being a former member of the Fabian Society—is not an idea that can fit in the traditional mindset, not because it's a young idea, but because it's essential principles of equality and anti-subsidiarity (govt force of redistribution) are contra-tradition.

>>13231698
so why the fuck use the word lmao

>>13231710
there's no difference between "governmental force" and socially enforced rules except maybe scope
>but because it's essential principles of equality and anti-subsidiarity (govt force of redistribution) are contra-tradition.
mercantile capitalism is also contra-tradition, so anything built on top of that kind of economy can't be truly traditional either, but a patch of some sort

>>13231718
get a brain and stop saying "fuck" (assuming you're the "trad cath" larper) you absolute cringe lord

>>13231721
>there's no difference between "governmental force" and socially enforced rules except maybe scope
are you serious? don't be ridiculous

>mercantile capitalism is also contra-tradition, so anything built on top of that kind of economy can't be truly traditional either, but a patch of some sort
yup; you're describing a perversion of capitalism. Its essential principles of free contract and private property are not contra-nature. But for distributism, it has the principles of egalitarianism and coercion, contra-nature principles. It is inherently evil as opposed to capitalism being inherently good but easily pervertible .

Your economy is a procedural system that reflects the type of society you live in. If you are a shitty people in general, you're gonna have mercantile capitalism in general

>>13231761
fuck isn't even sinful to say; don't forget St. Paul says "Skubala" or "shit" in Philippians

your american puritanism is showing ;)

>>13231787
>yup; you're describing a perversion of capitalism. Its essential principles of free contract and private property are not contra-nature.
capitalism requires the merchant class to be at the top of society, which is contra-nature

>>13231817
even if that were—while you disregard the role of subsidiarity and people's free and reasonable contracts—it would not change the fact that distributism is contra-nature. You switched the subject. I understand they are related and that I mentioned capitalism, but the main thrust was about distributism.

And why is it that I find that when distributists are criticized, their rebuttal is always a red herring deflecting to the issues with capitalism?

I hear people gushing over Chesterton so I read a few of his passages and essays. I was not impressed. Nothing of substance, all self-satisfied anglo shit-eating and ebin bants. He reads like an inverse Russel.

>>13224522
>>13224515
>>13224514
>>13224014
>>13224066
>>13223592
>>13223543
>>13223070
>>13223139
>>13223428
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cg0TQyjdHJ0

>>13225398
>I saw what appeared to be a human being dressed in a black evening-coat, black dress-waistcoat, and black dress-trousers, but with a shirt-front made of Jaeger wool.

>>13231852
because distributism is about moving power back to natural structures like the family from unnatural structures like capitalism which strengthens mercante classes and finance, yes, distributism is itself unnatural, but it's an unnatural patch on top of another unnatural state of things

>>13230200
This is an excellent example. Christian moralists betray everything good in the end.
They are evil. Creating the very conditions that lead to suicide and then condemning the man who does the only beautiful thing possible.

>>13230200
>He defiles every flower by refusing to live for its sake. There is not a tiny creature in the cosmos at whom his death is not a sneer. When a man hangs himself on a tree, the leaves might fall off in anger and the birds fly away in fury: for each has received a personal affront. Of course there may be pathetic emotional excuses for the act. There often are for rape
lmao holy fuck I don't even

>>13231882
Another version here.
https://youtu.be/FnkTuHP9q3o
And another good one.
https://youtu.be/QRg_8NNPTD8

>>13223928
Pure impotence.

>>13222371
>what hard ground you actually stand on.
I mean this is already distributist polemics. At least it is in a contemporary context. All this talk of "hard ground" and "practicality" is code for some materialist and ultimately leftist critique. It's all only a tick away from "lived reality," which is already a favorite of contemporary marxist theory. The hard ground upon which politics and philosophy must apparently stand is really just a demand for a critique of capitalism. Dont @ me

>>13224163
I've never even read a polemic against tea by Chesterton, but I feel like I can still reconstruct this argument from first principles and it's not even bad, so it's hard to see what Orwell's bitching bout unless it is, as Anon suggested, simply his (Orwell's) own frustration that religion actually affects people's conduct --- kind of like how the typical leftist American thinks it's fine to have a religion but not to let it affect your values or actions; i.e., you can only have a fake faith that you wear as a costume, your real religion has to be liberalism.

The argument:
>Tea is a foreign imposture from lands that have never known the cross, or didn't beofre the tea export began
>Beer is something that Christians, that Englishmen invented for themselves, and monks are the acknowledged masters of making it
>Tea and coffee are hot and agitating
>Beer is cool, thirst-quenching and relaxing
>One might give tea to a slave to encourage him to work harder; beer would never accomplish this, and indeed would be more likely to make an unwilling laborer less fit for his labor
>Therefore tea is a drink of slaves and beer a drink of free men
>Moreover, temperance is a species of total faggotry and tea, while no less harmful than beer, is used as a fake alternative
>All the great cathedrals of Christendom were built on beer, and perhaps on wine; the only thing ever built on tea is Mr. Shaw's greenhouse.
>As for coffee, of course, the great construction founded on it is Lloyds, which ought to be sufficient to give any good Englishman pause.

>>13227709
>that's like saying the distortion is the true image
He's not saying that at all. He's saying the true image is gone forever; all that's left is the distortion, and anyone claiming to see the true image is just a distortion-gazer with Notions.

>>13232388
>SJWs are liberal
>SJW support free speech, empiricism, private property, separation of Church and state, and republicanism
>Literally never

>>13230283
Oh yeah? So then how come the Germans with all their schism and heresy didn't turn into a huge autistic mess that caused all the problems of the 20th century? Huh, smart guy?

>>13232400
To which I would say, skepticism has it's time and place, but unrestrained skepticism is incoherent.

>>13232400
Pure cope.
WHERE'S THE BLOODY LOGOS!?!

>>13232388
Orwell isn't saying anything about religion not affecting people. He's basically calling Anglo-Catholics autists.
And he's right.

>>13230127
Anglo's were some of the best Catholics in Christendom until the prot chimpout and even after that you got great ones like Chesterton and Bl. John Henry Newman.

>>13232405
You know damn well what I meant by liberalism, Bert.

>>13224785
Who are your immediate ancestors?

>all this arguing about traditionalism, capitalism and distributism
>totally evident that not one anon among them read The Return of Don Quixote

>>13224785
Managed to survive despite Christianity, you mean. . . much like science, abstract mathematics, liberalism, art, architecture, European identity, language, culture, and history.

It really is a testament to the strength and beauty of these ideas: that a group of like five Greek dudes that liked to drink wine and fuck boipucci would able to develop an intellectual and cultural foundation for a set of beliefs and ideals that would somehow survive 1500 years of Judeo-Christian oppression, exploitation, and censorship at the hands of literally thousands of wealthiest and most powerful kings, armies, and nations in history. That these pre-Christian values could survive all this, only to re-emerge during the Renaissance and Enlightenment and immediately take the world by storm and literally rewrite the entire course of human history within a few decades.

>>13232762
>The Return of Don Quixote
Holy shit, this is the plot of a South Park episode

>>13232812
Can "learn history" be the next "have sex"?
Because seriously, european identity did not exist before Christianity, nor did science in the abstract, and I'm not sure what languages you're assuming Christianity tried to suppress. Rationalism in general was also not resisted by the Church, and the fall of Rome and the Dark Ages can't be reasonably blamed on religious factors.

>>13222560
I think the Catholic larper in my dnd group goes to church, but he couldn't even give up beer for Lent lol. Like, he didn't even try to give up alcohol, just beer, and he failed before palm Sunday!

>>13233316
The funny thing is that Chesterton wrote extensively about all the misconceptions Anon just gave proof of.

>>13226868
>tfw literally stopped reading at solar cults

>>13233507
His name starts with Z?

>>13234525
Those who do not learn history are doomed to repeat idiotic misconceptions of it.

>>13223543
Unironically considering doing this. Hindu (at least the Advaita Vedanata school), and by extension, Indo European metaphysics seem more intuitively truer than abrahamic ones. It required a lot less mental gymnastics to accept which I accept may just be a function of coming at it from an outside perspective.

>>13233316
>european identity did not exist before Christianity
Yikes.

>>13232762
>traditionalism, capitalism and distributism
If you set foot outside America or Western Europe, you'd learn that so called "traditionalism" is the order of the day. Even the most hardline socialists or anarchists are still pro-family and social conservatism.

>>13232812
You should investigate the role that Jesuits had in storming the world with learning.

>>13225538
Having a linear view of time tends to encourage you to really fuck things up when you think you're near the end

>>13230127
What is real Catholic literature? Is there a list or a chart or something?

>>13232812
>It really is a testament to the strength and beauty of these ideas
You could say the same thing about the Church lmao. 2000 years later and the kingdom of heaven on earth still stands like a venerable oak, ever new, wrought by the blood of martyrs. Bless.

So, what is the essential Chesterton reading? I'm not to interested in his christian books. What are some good fiction by him?

>>13235228
It'll always be at least a little Christian, but The Man who was Thursday, The Ball and the Cross, and the Father Brown stories are all great. I've also heard good things about the Napoleon of Notting Hill.

What was his view on Eastern Orthodoxy ?

>>13235172
I am aware. All the great Catholic scholars and philosophers going back to Augustine were great. But the Church and the masses often ignored what they said and what they were doing. Most of them were very superstitious and perpetuated the spread of antiempiricist and morally absolutist semito-hamitic superstition.

>>13222335
>titles book Orthodoxy
>book isn't about eastern Orthodoxy

what a smarmy english troll

>>13222560
I live in a country where I'd be persecuted if I was caught going to a church, not that they'd even let me inside the church. Count your blessings.

>>13223610
He was only able to get away with that because he had more powerful gods backing him. Greek mythology is interesting and all but being le ebin doesn't philosophically validate it. Also, I know you haven't actually read the Iliad because you didn't state the more extreme example of Diomedes wounding both Aphrodite and Ares.

>>13235408
Greek myth is far more in depth than philosophy or Christianity.

>>13235101
>the force which religiously unified what we think of as Europe is not in fact the foundation aspect of European identity.
Hmm...

>>13230200
There is nothing wrong in what is written here. Just because you are personally offended by what he wrote doesn't discredit it. At the end of the day, we're not women. We don't, or at least, we shouldn't, dismiss ideas just because we don't like them.

>>13235504
>tfw sincerely unsure if this an ironic post in the style of the the embarrassing types of posters who'd defend the embarrassing hack that is Chesterton
What a time to be alive.

>>13235529
Address my point. Do you just not like the fact that suffering exists? What's your problem with what he wrote?

>>13235533
>Address my point.
You'd need to have one first.
>What's your problem with what he wrote?
Only that it's completely divorced from reality and is comically stupid in its highfalutin condemnations. It's hard to conceive of something as both feeble and vigorous but Chesterton accomplishes it, he's so clearly incapable of understanding anything of the suicide but is ready to pontificate upon him at length. And his purpose? Self-flattery of course.

>>13230200
>commits intellectual suicide in his discourse on suicides
holy based

>>13235558
So your problem with it is you think it's stupid? And your not going to make an argument for it? Well you could've used a lot less words in that case. Now I know you have nothing valuable to say.

>>13235579

>>13235500
Imagine having to distort reality in every case you have to make a minor point.
Go drink your beer, christcuck.

>>13235420
Only if you disregard the mountains of literature, tradition, and general culture that have sprung from Christianity.

>>13235690
Nah, that only further proves how significant the Greek myths are. They couldn't be buried beneath thousands of years of church documents and attempts at desecration.
The Greek myths were complete, existing beyond theology and philosophy. There was no need to expand upon them because they were living ideas, one with eternal laws, or at least a perfect receiving of their form.
Christianity relies upon law and endless elaboration upon the incompleteness and contradictions. And as we see here, even pathetic arguments can make Christianity look foolish.
The Christian God is weak and dies to what it was incapable of defacing. It is a false religion that fed on Greek myth and philosophy like an ouroboros, feeding upon its materialism faster than it could replenish itself.

>>13232812
No because I'm from the balkans, and your meme arguments don't work here.
And saying Judeo Christian is showing how Americanized are your views or Christianity, there is not collaboration between the too in fact they were at arms against each other and only recently as religion become some secularist meme people decided they go hand in hand.
But the old testament yea what of it without the new testament and Jesus is a completely different book giving false rules.

>>13235751
Half the book is Jewish. The other half is Jewish apostates. How is it a misrepresentation to call it half Jewish?

>>13235758
Jesus is the antithesis of the Jew.
It really depends on how you define jewdean and if you look at the modern Jew the Talmudic religion it really as far away as you can get from it.
If you want to pre Jesus jewdeisum then there is no need to add the word Judean to it since that transformed into Christianity and is a tautology.

>>13235758
Because it overtook Judaism and perpetually blew it out of the water.

>>13232414
Luther is completely different from Anglo types. Calling them all 'protestant' doesn't make them similar. Lutherans were as rejected as catholics in Anglo countries for a long time, including the US.
And even then Luther is at the root of some of Germany's problems, but of a different kind.
There were many bizarre protestants in Germany at some earlier period but they got btfo during the great German War so that virtually only Lutherans and catholics remained strong.

>>13222335
So I'm reading your pic related and I get to chapter four and he talks for like three pages about how he's a liberal. Wtf, I thought he was based and redpilled?

>>13235745
Greek Mythology is basically a soap opera you pseud faggot. Read a book

>>13236569
Have sex.

>>13232132
The classic anime pseud who is “depressed” and “suicidal” but only when he’s telling other people how depressed and suicidal he is
The biggest grief in his life is his superficial understanding of nihilism and not having a girlfriend

>>13232132
Is this the power of theist polemics?

>>13237139
>replying to himself out of insecurity just because I shat on his post
yikes!

>>13236569
Having to cope this hard.
>religion comes down to the ineffable, cosmological dominion, the chasm of knowledge and belief, and the reconciliation of transcendence and nihilism. Christianity betrays each one of these laws
Come at me.

>>13236094
So why is the first half of the book still there?

>>13237221
I'll give you 4/10s of a Chesterton for effort. Which, to be fair, isn't insubstantial, the guy is like a barge full of nothing but Twinkies and mediocrity.

>>13237253
At least he wasn’t a defensive samefag

>>13237270
>anyone who thinks Chesterton is pathetic must be the same person
Newsflash, mocking him for his retarded writings on suicide and rape is a time honored tradition here newfriend.

>>13237099
was honestly unsure if you were talking about chesterton or not, hard to call any understanding of nihilism superficial by comparison

>>13237336
I mean the nihilism based purely off of emotion like the average anime incel understands. Pseudism like that is 100% below chesterton, and I’m not even holding him to high regard
>>13237326
You are putting words in my mouth. I’m just commenting on the fact that I replied to a post in the middle of the thread criticising it, and then oddly enough the next post is defending it

>>13236569
Eternal Christcuck generosity.

>>13237369

>>13237390
Kikestianity creates false believers due to its philistine cultism.

>>13236569
Everything good about Christianity is derived from Greek tradition you imbecile.

>>13236611
G-d really was an incel wasn't he.

>>13237466
>>13237477
>>13237555
Checked, and incredible BTFO of the Christcucks.

Jews and Christians loved copypasta
>The father will not agree with his children, nor the children with their father, nor guest with his host, nor comrade with comrade; nor will brother be dear to brother as aforetime. Men will dishonour their parents as they grow quickly old, and will carp at them, chiding them with bitter words, hard-hearted they, not knowing the fear of the gods. They will not repay their aged parents the cost their nurture, for might shall be their right: and one man will sack another's city. There will be no favour for the man who keeps his oath or for the just or for the good; but rather men will praise the evil-doer and his violent dealing. Strength will be right and reverence will cease to be; and the wicked will hurt the worthy man, speaking false words against him, and will swear an oath upon them. Envy, foul-mouthed, delighting in evil, with scowling face, will go along with wretched men one and all. And then Aidos and Nemesis [shame of wrongdoing and indignation against the wrongdoer], with their sweet forms wrapped in white robes, will go from the wide-pathed earth and forsake mankind to join the company of the deathless gods: and bitter sorrows will be left for mortal men, and there will be no help against evil.

>this one pagan incel just posting by himself

>>13222560
go to mass 5 days a week. i could post about the daily readings each day

>>13237648
>o-only one p-p-pe-person c-could poss-po-possibly disa-disagree w-with c-c-c-christcucks
You can surely make One argument. Let the Force of the Logos be with you.

>Is there any greater hubris than Christianity? Besides thinking that a god would give a fuck about you lowly mortals, you get up and spend about three hours getting ready to spend the day entirely within His gaze. Curling your fine locks; slowly inching on exquisite leggings; plucking away at the unsightly; adorning an intricately sewn and soft pair of felt shoes so that the earth remains undisturbed by your fleeing feet; closing yourself within layer upon layer of corsets and featherings to keep all forces and elements at bay while attracting the fancy of the piercing eyes of the world; spritzing your skin and hair with the eternal glaze of a prism; a second layer of leggings and tights to show off your gleamingly placid contours in relaxed poses; a wide-brimmed hat with the sweeping peacock lines of the ethereal; and finally a veiled nightshirt to keep any remaining inclement weather from betraying your fair skin, and especially adding the gravity of the world to those bouncing curls.

>Yes. Yes. You are so fine and beholden to the heavens, an earthen vessel which G-d would love to take in his kind hands, kissing you gently. He will slowly remove all those layers of linen and silk, revealing the blossoming curves of you, the Virtuous Man. A spider woven into His web. And once naked in the light beyond this cursed earth He will ravage your gentle body without making you feel like a whore.

>He will even watch as you spend another three hours piecing together your assemblage of the finest knitwear, just waiting for that gentle jiggling of the buttocks as you tighten your corset. As you gracefully walk back into the earthly delights He will drape your curtain over your pallid shoulders; for You are the Veil of Maya and Logos.

Christians seem to like starting fights and then running away. Isn't this the opposite of offering the cheek?

>>13230200
Promoting a culture which treats suicide like this will probably decrease suicide rates.

The only reason you and other dislike this sentiment is because it strikes your worldview to the core.

>>13238355
Christians created this hellworld to begin with, and now you want to punish people for enacting their own justice to escape it.
Perverse just like your G-d.
The Christian should have some humility before the destruction enacted by his God, recognise that the victims of wrath may be innocent, unfortunates beneath a power which may only worsen. But no, he insists that he too has the will and power of God and must enact laws of wrath to perform God's will. He thus raises hell when he realises heaven is beyond him, and this becomes like a paradise for his moralism.
The Christian creates a theology of death and then punishes those who attempt to worship the creation.

>>13234874
No.

>>13236094
Wow. A christian taking the bible out of context for is own propaganda yet again.

>>13238221
It's what Jesus taught them

John 8:58 “Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!” 59 At this, [The crowd] picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.

clutch bump

>>13237555
Nah. Everything good about Greek tradition was perfected by Christianity.

>>13222344
Huh. I thought that was a /lit/ meme
Perhaps that's the power of shitposting that /tv/ is always blabbing about.

>>13230771
>>13232100
>>13232132
>>13235529
>>13235558
>>13235593
>killing yourself is the decision that death is preferable to life
>that there is nothing in this world that is worth living for, all of it is meaningless compared to your suffering (I presume)
>negation of all values, even a criminal wants something out of life
>chadterton puts it all eloquently, spergs sperg out

top kek

>>13241910
>kek, epic libtards btfo stay mad bugmen
>stupid_wojak.png
absolute state of 4chan

>>13241927
salty?

>>13241932

>>13241937
salty.

>>13241947
seething.

>>13241910
Why are Christians never humble?

>>13237687
>>Is there any greater hubris than Christianity?

No, that's the point.

>>13242090
They're mostly just hateful people who want a framework to validate themselves

>>13230200

He's very close to realizing the magnanimity of Jesus, and like all Catholics quivers with terror at the realization.

>He cannot be bribed, even by the blazing stones of the Celestial City

This is literally Jesus refusing Satan's offer. I would ask how is it possible that he doesn't realize it, but then again Catholics unironically don't read the Bible.

>>13241910
>killing yourself may be the decision that life has become worse than death and self-sacrifice is the only remaining act of beauty or even justice
>indeed, however the impossible weight of suffering should not be placed at the feet of the individuals who were supposed to be relieved of it, but instead the god who betrayed his oath
>negation of the end of all values, or the value of negation, even a criminal can have more piety than an amorphous and arbitrary god
>christvirgins sperg out trying to defend chestcucks inability to reconcile christian values with the modern world

>To bury the bodies apart would be to deny that there are no longer any natural deaths. And given the ugliness of the modern graveyard, all places unworthy of death, one would be giving sacred rites to those who commit suicide while denying them to those who wait until the eleventh-hour. There is a subtle recognition of this 'giving oneself over' in Chesterton's refusal of generosity and love before the suicide victim. He is advocating for crime and further despoilment of creation rather than an act of Good. For when there is no longer a sovereign authority to hold us to our oath then we must take the hemlock ourselves. Just as every beggar is Odysseus, every suicide is Socrates.

>In the suicide victim we must imagine a betrayer, a denouncer, a traitor - and yet we must also imagine a man's humility in recognising his failure within the war against hidden forces, unknown evils. We must imagine that somewhere along his path in life he recognised that his spirit was beyond him, beyond the horizon, too far to reach within this world. For today we live in opposition to creation, a world digging itself into the underworld. How then can suicide be a sin if it is merely a continuation of being? One should consider that the suicidal man has been driven into misanthropy, he did not want it, the world tried to devour him. And with no Antigone left to care for the body, even as a hope or dream, he had to prepare his own burial rites.

>>13242431
imagine being this soi

>>13242478
>having sympathy for others and holding to traditional values is soi
KYS, christcuck. Or make one argument. You guys are pathetic in this thread.

>>13242478
Seriously, take a moment to consider who you are defending.

>>13242491
>>13242535
lmao, you two are just degenerate bugmen
suicide is like sticking your middle finger up to god, it's selfish and for pathetic fucking numales who can't cope and are upset their fee-fees got hurt by real fucking life
i don't care about their pathetic excuses, they are scum

>>13242551
God killed himself, anon.

>>13242551
Enjoy showing how strong you are by living it up in the modern world.

Based

What's up with all the mudslime shills and pagan larpers lately?

>>13222335
My first GK Chesterton book was The Man Who was Thursday. Thought that was great and went on to read the great divorce and everlasting man. Sadly I cant find the audiobook torrent of Orthodoxy atm

>>13242551
You're killing yourself too. Just much more slowly and without retaining your dignity.

>>13242585
>>13242579
>>13242574
Nice slide attempt, guys. But there's a post counter.

>>13242431
Chesterton is also saying that suicide is the ultimate and absolute evil, so you should give up your belief in God before committing suicide.
Christcucks don't even realise the hubris they are reading.

>>13242478
>imagine being this soi

>>13242631
>implying that this physique isn't 100% beef and beer

>>13222344
Trad Caths are the worst

>>13242806
>Catholics are the worst form of religiosity, except for all the others.
FTFY