/lit/ - Literature

>>13207513
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLPs4TRYh1Unq8xFETda6BHxbQeps-uTtO

You could just check the archive you know.

>>13209576
Can someone tell me how did that object oriented ontology guy got destroyed by Land?

>>13209576
Thanks fren

He looks like he's chewing on a cock lmao. Why does he look so retarded. I guess ran out of the "" high energy pills""" (aka hard drugs) hahaha. He even does the mouth movements that junkies do - it's so plain! Without the drugs his anglo features, all come together into the gross whole and makes him one of the most plain, boring humans imaginable. Let's all make a petition to get Land out of China and get him on drugs again! We could make a daily dosage lists for him - whichever drug gets the highest number of votes wins! Bye bye capitalism hello tron legacy. I say yes!

>>13209850
Please tell that story anon, sounds interesting.

>>13207513
Already a Land thread up. No need to spam, guys.

>>13209889
Someone hijacked the stream, trying to debate Land, everybody watches in silence as Land tore the OOO guy apart.

>>13209967
LINK

>>13209967
BASED AND REDPILLED

>>13209967
>>13209971
This one?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_nXjYaOkvE&feature=youtu.be&list=PLM6AzdvgK2LIEudhL5LcQ2Z4b1iBNTONP&t=7506
I think that's the correct timestamp.
It goes until the end of the video. The guy gets pretty heated.

>>13210345
Cringe.

>>13209850
>>13209856
>>13209884
FUCKING SAMEFAGS GET A LIFE.

>>13210345
oh look how memetic can you get. the virgin disheveled juice bottle chugging tweaker in a rundown room vs chad calm and collected land in a neat room with authentic chinese tea in a classic mug. he almost sounds like the anti /acc autists here. wait is that amy ireland on the right?

>>13210970
>wait is that amy ireland on the right?
Of course. She's Nick's protege.

Does anyone remember which video it was where he talks about teleology and how he thinks our world is teleological?

>>13211044
You're gonna need to be more specific than that.

>>13211021
never noticed shes kinda cute without a guy haircut. yo amy can i get sum smooch, ill write u an apocalyptic poem bb.

>>13211021

Based Amy

I bet the actually-existing Nick Land finds the fictional one created by retards on the Internet hilarious.

>>13211092
He's purposefully fueling it with his twitter.

The Nick Land lectures at the New Center

The Concept of Acceleration
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLM6AzdvgK2LJMLHhI3Yeouy-3jiAKcvuB

Bitcoin and Philosophy
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLM6AzdvgK2LJrKca3SQznL9dua2blgcIq

Qwernomics
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLM6AzdvgK2LKDtYMw6QQucqg4AJMXt1SV

Outer Edges (Incomplete, anyone have links to the rest of the unlisted videos?)
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLM6AzdvgK2LIEudhL5LcQ2Z4b1iBNTONP

session 2: Nick Land debates philosopher Peter Wolfendale
https://youtu.be/o_nXjYaOkvE?list=PLM6AzdvgK2LIEudhL5LcQ2Z4b1iBNTONP&t=7506

Anthropol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZNeK70Qtqw&index=9&list=PLmRCkFjsIa10oDOJn2WKfb8sGkOuumSkV&t=0s

>>13211441
Is there a reason they're all unlisted ?

>>13211471
well its obvious that I can not know that, I am not from the New Centre

>>13211498
I'm assuming you probably have to pay to access the playlist or something, a lot of online stuff does that.

>>13211441
Thanks for this base anon.

>>13210970
Subscribing to shit like acc and calling anyone an autist.

The absolute state of post-modern philosophy.

>>13211127

>>13211058
feminine penis is the fastest penis

>>13211636
for the most part all the newer '/acc' twittard stuff is shitty, let alone 'subscribing' to anything nowadays. ccru, land, plant and reza are the canon. it takes a certain interest in the background genre and subcultures to see the fun of it. its not supposed to be read as strictly philosophical in frame of the western canon but the point is you can if you want to and theres a lot to explore. its either you get it and enjoy it or youll fry your brain watching a fish trying to climb a tree. problem is the fry brains are brutecracking themselves to think that a few memes and impressionable quotes means they are in on a secret revolutionary occult group(becuz if ur not fast u dnt get it rite lmao), literally their own feedback loop of justing themselves. i feel like the newer wave is what people judge it by and yeah i hate it too. past few years have been people step by step 101 learning bits and pretending its a new political movement. but then thats where you get into the mystical and occult side of it and suddenly you are cooking with butter.

>>13211441
DUDE

thank you, this will help me zone out over the weeks.

So now that OP's request has been fulfilled, lets talk about why we love Nick Land.
I think that Nick Land is the only philosopher for people who, like me, are a radical misanthropist. Nick Land wants to eradicate humanity, and so do I. 95 % of people I've come to meet online or from the media or real life are either absolutes assholes and I get the urge to physicall hurt them, or they are vapid, uninteresting degenerates. Even on /lit/ I'd likely hate most people.
Who gives me the moral and philosophical permission to have this thoughts which would be considered "evil" in christianity? None better than Nick Land.

>>13212630
Ligotti probably fits the bill better - "life is malignantly useless", planetary extinction as a blessed relief, and so on.

>>13212630
If you love him so much why don’t you marry him

I have a horrendously stupd question but google is failing me, so I'll bump with it and give everyone the oppurtunity to call me a retarded faggot:

what's the opposite of syntax; what is the term for the meaning of the word that can only be understood through a-priori knowledge of culture and social relations etc.?

>>13212630
Yikes

>>13212944
connotation? not sure what you mean by "the opposite of syntax." i don't think there could be such a thing

>>13212769
high iq

>>13213073
Is there a sort of duality between what words are intended to mean prescriptively and what they actually mean descriptively?

>>13212944
Concept
or
Triangle of reference
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triangle_of_reference
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concept

I would feel deep glee and happiness if skynet equivalent destroyed all human delusions with the crushing rationality of AI domination. I just don't see it. I'm seeing long-scale ecological collapse leading to a slow dismantling of state as it basically scales by production until death, leaving behind a smattering of humanity who inevitably die themselves. I think stubborn delusion will persist to the final breath. That being alive is fucking awesome and I don't doubt something crazy could happen that isn't even possible to conceive of from our perspective. I'm definitely going to go for as long as I can.

>>13213686
But at least we'll get BASED writers while we die from genetic drift.

>>13213729
thi9s is basedf

>>13213729
I'm hoping that people start committing acts of violence for the aesthetic. I think we got close to something like that with the recent mosque shooting. I think something like ironic self-immolation would be amusing if you could convey to enough people at once that you weren't doing it for a particular reason without them preventing it. Maybe livestreaming.

>>13213750
>t.

>>13213729
>In a world divided between theistic enthusiasts and secularist depressives there is little patience for the atheist who nurtures a passionate hatred for God. The mixture of naturalism and blasphemy that characterizes the Sadean text occupies the space of our blindness, to which Bataille’s writings are not unreasonably assimilated. If there is contradiction here it is one that is coextensive with the unconscious; the consequence of a revolt incommensurate with the ontological weight of its object. That God has wrought such loathesomeness without even having existed only exacerbates the hatred pitched against him. An atheism that does not hunger for God’s blood is an inanity, and the anaemic feebleness of secular rationalism has so little appeal that it approximates to an argument for his existence. What is suggested by the Sadean furore is that anyone who does not exult at the thought of driving nails through the limbs of the Nazarene is something less than an atheist; merely a disappointed slave.

Does he have a website or something where he lists his future seminars? I'd like to be a part of one of these, these faggots aren't asking him any questions when he asks if anyone has any and I've got some.

>>13213924
no future seminars. What was posted above is 100%. Nick Land got banned from the New Center because they got concerned massages mentioning Nick Lands racist views.
I put the exact timestamp in the link where Nick's association with the New Center was talked about
https://youtu.be/Q8T2ZJv_y6k?list=PLM6AzdvgK2LJMLHhI3Yeouy-3jiAKcvuB&t=1751

>>13213937
Land's still talking but so far that guy's just said that they refuse to cut ties with Nick regardless of how his thought is utilized by others.

Search for
"the new centre" Nick Land
first result is the facebook statement from the new centre about kicking him out.

>>13213983
That's 2 years old, has he not done anything since anywhere else?

>>13213987
Think he's just been writing

>>13213937
> Nick Land got banned from the New Center because they got concerned massages mentioning Nick Lands racist views

Why is something so simple as drawing conclusions about Darwin and evolution considered racist..

>>13211865
>literally their own feedback loop of justing themselves
well put, kek.

>>13214341
Even if reality is racist, it's still your moral responsibility to deny it.

Read praxeology.

>>13211732
That was before he was found out to be a shill.

>>13214369

This.

>>13214369
H-he's gonna come back one day, right bros?

>>13214694
I think he gave it all way back when. Forever glad he listed his sources as future reading material. I've been reading them ever since last summer when I finished reading his blog, and they've been fantastic.

>>13214369
I've never seen a more jewish facial features

GIVE MOLDBUG ONE (1) STATE AND LET HIM FUCKING TRY

bump before bed.

>>13214694
nah, he's too busy having dinner parties with Peter Thiel and trying to convince Cody Wilson to become a literal fascist.

>>13216439
> you will never dine with Moldbug
jdimsa.

He was also in dinner with Kantbot and J. Murphy if the twitter stories are true (which I don't know how true they are)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDsDgBJmb0M

>>13211865
it's still all just competing discourses fueled by drugs and communication networks, controlled by groups that are narcistically always looking inward for cleavages to exploit their claims to be the legit authority of that group. These social cohesions are perspective bound by constant infighting. Knowing the clevages is the key to shifting any discourse to your own ends.

>>13216626
but thats every network

>>13212944
imagism

>>13212944
resonance
word games

>>13214341
Ooo that *resonance*

>>13216626
>>13216631
the constant frustration is pretending to be so fringe and yet failing to learn about what keeps a community intact in the first place. anyone could talk about thermodynamics and occult syllogism but then still fall into the memetic bug of id pol. theyre no better than bluechecks at that point, they occupy the antithesis of the sphere they want away from. im using twitter as an example but this is a general networking problem. worse scenario is they get so infiltrated that they adopt the shills techniques and default to a hobbesian drug party, all the while thinking its some next level milestone. detournment is useful but it is a defensive tool to use, not exactly fruitful for new platforms. i mean ye, i get the point of riding the msm current to amplify praxis, but surely we all know the risks by now

>>13216770
dirty hegelian tricks in this post dont read

>>13215424
this. Imagine Nick Land and Moldbug together in the management council of your small-scale city state.

>>13216791
im literally describing how hegelian thought corrodes.

>>13214468
And?

>>13212944
The opposite of syntax ("salt" is written S A L T and pronounced /sɔːlt/ in British English) is usually said to be semantics, the problem you have is that there is also pragmatics. Semantics is the "coded" meaning, for example the list of dictionary definitions ("salt" is muh sodium chloride...).

Pragmatics looks at the context and figures out WTF is actually meant ("pass me the salt" means you want that particular object over there on the table, a container for a small amount of sodium chloride).

Since you are a retarded faggot, presumably what you wanted is someplace to go after "signifier." "Signified" is where the semantics go, f.e.: the list of dictionary definitions help you identify a class of objects. "Referent" is that one object that is meant which you need pragmatics to figure out.

Signified and referent can be coincident only in the case of proper names, f.e.: if I say "Barack Hussein Obama" you usually get it, whereas when I say "Nick Land" I can refer both to a faggot and a Nickelodeon cartoon theme park, so you still need your pragmatics.

As you can see even with proper names communication literally cannot happen without pragmatics, this is a reminder in case you were still chasing the pipe dream of self-demonstrative signs free of ambiguity like an early 20th century Anglo analytic philosopher.
>a-priori
reminder that you are a retarded faggot
>>13213565
the signifier-signified relationship is invariably arbitrary, on top of that dictionaries can be rewritten and human practices change; pragmatics requires context and interpretation each and every single time

>>13216804
Kant. They don't work some shitty neobureaucracy job, and thus can't be larp monarchs.

>>13212641
conspiracy against the human race is goddamn masterpiece

Nick Land is an edgy version of Jordan Peterson. Both are examples of how far the white male can go without saying anything of worth.

>nihilism
yawn

>>13218026
At least accelerationism and hyperstition are actual ideas, not just regurgitating boomer mom catchphrases like "stand up straight with your shoulders back".

>>13218370
>At least accelerationism and hyperstition are actual ideas,
ideas he stole from far smarter and more relevant people

>>13218026
Nick is just an ironic communist

>>13217215
>semiology
You're getting there anon; Nick Land will be waiting after you make it through Baudrillard

>>13218383
Hyperstition is straight out of the CCRU, and if you mean Nick Land's idea of accelerationism is simply Marx's definition there are probably a half dozen smelly tankies that would agree with you, hope you enjoy your company

>>13214369
>praxeology
If I wanted to read a pseudoscience, I would have read psychoanalysis and psychology

>>13218385
This

>>13214341
>Why is something so simple as drawing conclusions about Darwin and evolution considered racist..
I think its a little reductionist to call him racist but the idea that theres finite amount of IQ genes and that intelligence is accurately reflected by capitalism sounds like race science. It theres no reason intelligence cant spontaneously generate a couple generations later hes really essentialising capitalism as eternal, and presupposing that machines will accelerate (d)evolution permanently but speciation doesn't happen that fast. Its kind of a myopic remix of social darwinism.

>>13219172
People shouldn't be silenced or shunned for their beliefs, but I agree with your point.

I know people that were never obviously never exposed to many abstract ideas when they were younger. As adults they have an aversion to any thought outside of the realm that they're used to. This obviously has an impact on intelligence. Rather than searching for a solution, which can be an unpleasant feeling, they're ok with drawing a blank. Meanwhile the person that finds a solution is on the next layer of abstraction while the first person is still holding their blank card. It's the only card they'll ever hold. No growth.

Is anyone here a New Centre member?

>>13219172
it's not the pricing mechanism causing devolution, but the fucking state wealth transfers to poors and retards

fucking kill em all including me

>>13214369
What's his end goal?

>>13219456
Becoming king

>>13207513
wat

>>13219395
>>13219456

This would still take hundreds of thousands of years to manifest in the gene pool. The only way Land gets his way is if he personally seizes the means of production and implements a techno-fascist state that mass genocides people with the only survivors being the new elite with depressed birthrates. Even then material conditions would be so different that people would likely abandon capitalism and reproduction would rise in a couple generations, you would have to create an AI to guide humanity into hell start melding with machines or release a global virus that mutates DNA. Its a pipe dream.

>>13219494
>This would still take hundreds of thousands of years to manifest in the gene pool
No. the (d)evolution set forward by Britain industrializing too soon is already visible in descending IQ scores and that is when you control for shitskin immigration.

>>13216804
This would make a great anime

>>13216804
Moldbug would have Land turned into biodiesel for being academy intellectual in his past.

>>13219786
>industrializing too soon
any more info on this?

>>13220020
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Farewell_to_Alms
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_10,000_Year_Explosion
https://westhunt.wordpress.com/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLQGLXJutfU
https://www.amazon.com/At-Our-Wits-End-Intelligent/dp/184540985X
http://libgen.io/search.php?req=THE+RHYTHM+OF+THE+WEST+A+Biohistory&lg_topic=libgen&open=0&view=simple&res=25&phrase=1&column=def

https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/An_Essay_on_the_Principle_of_Population
https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/On_the_Origin_of_Species

sorry for linkspam and no tl;dr.
basically dysgenics (group level fitness decrease) started after industrialization of Britain, for obvious reasons (poor and dumb people have it easier time to breed)
We are losing 1 iq per 100 years at current pace.

>>13220051
>We are losing 1 iq per 100 years at current pace.
Explain the Flynn effect then.

>>13220071
We are losing it already in some countries, there are developed European countries where it has reversed. That is spooky as hell.

>>13220076
>>13220071
btw. the video link 'co-occurrence nexus' has one explanation why IQ rose and now is falling in developed Western states.

>>13220082
https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/iq-rates-are-dropping-many-developed-countries-doesn-t-bode-ncna1008576

all good policy must in the end be darwinian i fear

>>13211471
Because the New Centre publicly disowned Land after caving in to the pressure of a mildly angry tweet from a nobody

>>13220101
lmao, a fuckibg tweet got him fired? do you have that particular tweet?

>>13211127
Accelerating his own image towards further it's memetic potential.
Could the man be any more based?

>>13220086
Kinda sad to think that our generation represents the historical pinnacle of human intelligence.

>>13220169
Don't worry, we are running out of intelligence to think about it kek

Accelerationists are one of the best examples of dropping IQ.

>>13220604
It's just Christian eschatology with God = AI.
Literally same fucking shit.

Though often, funny and entertaining shit.

>>13220612
But worse in every way and not intentionally funny.

>>13220625
> Adorno
One Jew you wish the Nazis had actually gassed.

>>13210345
he isnt OOO though, just seems like a normal left liberal

>>13220635
> left liberal
redundant, liberalism is leftist by birth.

>>13220631
funny how the holocaust acted as a eugenics program in itself

>>13220638
shut up before i find you and fuck your mom and make you raise your brother

>>13219786
They have had to repeatedly raise the calibration of iq tests because human intelligence has been steadily increasing for decades

>>13220635
That's Peter Wolfendale
>He considers himself a heretical Platonist, an unorthodox Kantian, and a minimalist Hegelian, but is equally happy being described as a rationalist.

>>13220762
This trend, the so-called Flynn effect, has slowed and reversed in some categories.

>>13221448
So? How can you peg dropping IQ to British industrialization when that event correlated with the biggest normative rise in IQ we have ever seen? If we drop 1 point in a century we would still be far above pre-industrial intelligence levels

>>13221460
>How can you peg dropping IQ to British industrialization
I was not the one doing that, my only interest is in clarifying what you were saying about rising IQ. For what you are asking about, I recommend reading the book "The Shallows." He talks somewhat in depth about IQ scores and how and why they change over time in a population. That said, our forebears were very intelligent but not in the habit of thinking, generally, in the manner that is tested on IQ tests.

>>13221507
It's probably bad idea to assume that we are measuring 'intelligence' or 'IQ' or generating it. We are not really producing novel evolutionary problems for our brains to solve and for selection to work itself. We could if we get colonies in Moon and Mars, just maybe achieve that effect. Now it's just dropping IQs in Earth, even in Europe. Not yet in US I believe, but soon.

>>13221507
The most ludicrous idea would be that humanity has no upper limit on IQ. We are probably approaching this ceiling (i.e. iq drop is simply a natural fluxuation around this biological limit). I was specifically objecting to the hypothesis that falling IQ can be tied to a premature British industrialization

>>13221523
Perhaps I am misunderstanding you but given the rather substantial amount of neuroplasticity displayed by humans, the notion that we could increase IQ measurements by having our brains work more at the categories of problems tested on IQ tests is absolutely reasonable. A man 50 or 200 years ago had a brain which was more or less equal to a man today, but it was probably on average less frequently called upon to engage in purely abstract problem solving, for example.

>>13221540
>was specifically objecting to the hypothesis that falling IQ can be tied to a premature British industrialization
Agreed. Evolution moves with a much, much slower hand than a few centuries.

>>13221650
> Evolution moves with a much, much slower hand than a few centuries.
Apparently not.

"Evidence suggests the IQs of people in the UK, Denmark and Australia have declined in the last decade. A study by the University of Hartford claims the larger the global population becomes, the less intelligent we will be, dropping by around eight IQ points by the year 2110 - and other estimates are even more pessimistic"

"An IQ test used to determine whether Danish men are fit to serve in the military has revealed scores have fallen by 1.5 points since 1998. "

"And standard tests issued in the UK and Australia echo the results, according to journalist Bob Holmes, writing in New Scientist. "

"Scientists including Dr Flynn think better education can reverse the trend and point out the perceived decline could just be a blip. However, other scientists are not so optimistic."

"Some believe the Flynn effect has masked a decline in the genetic basis for intelligence, so that while more people have been reaching their full potential, that potential itself has been declining."

"Richard Lynn, a psychologist at the University of Ulster, calculated the decline in humans’ genetic potential. He used data on average IQs around the world in 1950 and 2000 to discover that our collective intelligence has dropped by one IQ point. Dr Lynn predicts that if this trend continues, we could lose another 1.3 IQ points by 2050."

"Michael Woodley, of the Free University of Brussels, Belgium, claims people’s reactions are slower than in Victorian times, and has linked it to a decline in our genetic potential."

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2730791/Are-STUPID-Britons-people-IQ-decline.html

DailyMail, but citing New Scientist and Harvard, and I've read the books of cited authors (though Woodley is way too pessimistic) and tend to agree.

Cochran also disagrees that we can't negatively affect evolution in short timespan.

>>13220051
>(poor and dumb people have it easier time to breed)
nah your still not getting it. There are no distinct classes of "dumb" people that have heritable low IQ, IQ dropping can be directly linked to poverty and malnourishment during fetal/young child development exacerbated by disease and poverty or environmental poisons like lead and arsenic in drinking water.

Like I said Land is not racist, he just thinks social darwinism is real if you make it about smart people(like him of course) instead of white people. Tip tip.

Take those poor and dumb people and put them in a clean safe environment with fresh water exercise sunlight multivitamins and sufficient calories and their children will return to the average 100 IQ.

If you took the non-meritocratic winners of the capital game and gave their children and expecting mothers cholera and arsenic laced water youd have the same resultant IQ drops you see in poor communities.

>>13221853
>Take those poor and dumb people and put them in a clean safe environment with fresh water exercise sunlight multivitamins and sufficient calories and their children will return to the average 100 IQ.

Does not work, the richest black town in US has more crime than the poorest white town. You are Jared Diamonding it up like hell.

You people do realize that Homo Sapiens is running on the same genetic code for the last 250,000 years. Humans now are not more smarterer IQ dudes than hunter-gatherers. The potential for Einsteins being born given proper nourishment and education has been constant this whole time.

>>13220762
>They have had to repeatedly raise the calibration of iq tests because human intelligence has been steadily increasing for decades
Stop looking at this like being 150 IQ means your twice as smart as the average dunce. Land conceives of intelligence holding an absolute position as the primary expression of life as a form of self replicating information pattern recognition machines. AI woo woo the universe is a holographic computer that moves through save states like frames but at light speed.

So rocks are data because their crystal atomic structure contains patterned information, life in general organizes and manipulates patterns, humans uniquely interact with this matrix and smart humans are gods made in the universes image.

This is a super retard take because the effective difference between a rock and a (dumb)person is significant orders of magnitude higher than a dumb person and a smart person. Hes just post hoc justifying a place for himself directing the universe because he thinks stemlords are special.

You could glass the planet and the genetic information for high IQ would still be contained in the random selection of people who happened to be in the basement at the time.

>>13221923
>sperg, cope, and non-sequitur
wew lad

>>13221923
What YOU describe Land describing is just cybernetic interpretation of evolution (Valentin Turchin), it's not 'his' idea so to speak.

who can link me stuff on his 'cities are iq shredders' theory

>>13221962
That is not Nick Land, that is Spandrell.
And it's easy as shit to Google, which makes me think you didn't even try.

tl;dr rich (=smart) people of Singapore too busy being smart money maximizers for Capital and forget to breed at replacement rate

>>13221962
http://www.xenosystems.net/iq-shredders/
>>13221972
>only one person can write about a theory
Are you slow?

>>13221984
im just correcting the originator

>>13221865
>the richest black town in US has more crime than the poorest white town.
when you say shit like this you just expose yourself

>>13221994
>link me Nick Land's work on IQ shredders
>that's Spandrell
That's not a correction

>>13221997
black adoption kids in rich white families still perform 1sd lower on iq tests. sorry nature is racist

>>13222002
lemurs tongue my Anus

what sya you??

>>13222007
>black adoption kids
>>13221853
>malnourishment during fetal/young child development
If you can't implicitly understand how my suggestions control for variables and the studies referred to do not so you keep repeating actual racist talking points you really just expose yourself as posting a Land thread to justify your preconceived notions of individual differences that don't match up with biological reality. There really isn't a finite amount of people with "smart genes" and you aren't part of the exclusive group.

>>13222078
you are attacking something that hasnt been asserted

what is asserted that blade won't be kept sharp without grindstone

>>13222078
>There really isn't a finite amount of people with "smart genes"
yes there really is. and you shouldn't act surprised when people bring up 'actual racist talking points' in a conversation about...racism.

>>13210345
that guy looks like a mix between Joyce and Michael Palin

>>13221972
yeah im just posting it since relevant, and for newer corners about it i havent heard of since

>>13221984
>>13221994
>>13222002
>>13222014
cease. let go of your jimjims

>>13222102
>yes there really is.
source? legitimately interested.

This sounds to me like saying there are a finite amount of flying genes in birds.

>>13222151
There are a finite amout of genes and individuals full stop, and if you accept any impact of genes on intelligence at all(I really wonder how you could argue otherwise) then you're aware that the proportion of these in the human species will differ by individual and group. So whatever you want to call 'smart', an arbitrary classification, but the cognitive ability requisite for some given task, there will be a finite number of humans who belong to it. Most obviously excluded are actual retards, but if we're talking about high level physics or something then a much larger proportion of humans are excluded from birth.

>>13222165
>if we're talking about high level physics or something then a much larger proportion of humans are excluded from birth
I agree with the idea that a proportion of the population is discluded from high level physics but I don't think its necessarily larger and not essential eternal or permanent.

Low IQ is basically birth defects from malnutrition or poison some of the current generation population will be excluded, but their genetic code is not damaged, just their individual expression of it. If that child is raised with nutrition in a poison free environment reproduces and their children are as well successive generations will return to the mean. There are of course a finite amount of people at any given moment but there are also new people born all the time.

It would make sense if you were able to demonstrate that more than 50% of known homo sapien phenotype are incapable of doing higher order maths and that it is a dominate trait that persists and you could justify racism if it was isolated to post enlightenment christian whites or something like that.

>>13222265
All Im contending is that the ability to do high level physics is due to some genes for 'intelligence', and that the number of these differ by individual and group. This doesn't have any direct evidence supporting it, so it could be wrong, but it also doesn't seem at all unreasonable to me. You seem to be saying that IQ is entirely unselected by evolution, only environmental factors matter. I find this very unlikely given that the story of humanity since we evolved from our ancestral link with chimpanzees is in large part the evolution of intelligence.

It is clearly not limited to post enlightenment christian whites. Members of every race(excluding smaller primitive groups who haven't had the opportunity) have contributed to or at least shown themselves capable of understanding physics. It's the proportion of each group that is in question, that's all that's needed to justify racism on statistical grounds.

We see the races behaving in very different ways, achieving certain things in very different numbers. It isn't a priori ridiculous to think this might be partly genetic.

>>13222301
>Members of every race(excluding smaller primitive groups who haven't had the opportunity) have contributed to or at least shown themselves capable of understanding physics. It's the proportion of each group that is in question
I think you would have to demonstrate how that unique intelligence is generated in a population. It seems to me that its spontaneous, just like people who are particularly good at a sport, every generation has a handful of people that excel and populations with more resources have higher percentages of excellent individuals.

I don't see any evidence that traits in individuals are selected for by evolution _AT ALL_, natural selection refers species variation not differences between individuals. Birds have wings humans have intelligence. Evolution isn't an event that defines personal abilities its a constant process developing over millennia.

>>13222348
>ust like people who are particularly good at a sport, every generation has a handful of people that excel and populations with more resources have higher percentages of excellent individuals.
There are individual extended families in Africa that dominate some Olympic category like distance running.

>I don't see any evidence that traits in individuals are selected for by evolution _AT ALL_, natural selection refers species variation not differences between individuals.
Evolution is literally the process of selecting for genetic differences between individuals of the same species.

>>13222363
>Evolution is literally the process of selecting for genetic differences between individuals of the same species.
nah thats social darwinism

>Evolution is change in the heritable characteristics of biological populations over successive generations

>populations

its called origin of the species because its about speciation - the generation of the species, like a genre(gender) or type through survival of the fittest(species) more accurately called "natural selection"(of the species) not "survival of the fittest individual".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Darwinism#Criticism_and_controversy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survival_of_the_fittest#Interpreted_as_expressing_a_moral_theory

>>13222407
There is really no way I can say this politely- you don't understand evolution. In a given population, individuals are selected for their genetic traits each generation, that is how evolution works, that is how 'change in the heritable characteristics of biological populations over successive generations' happens. (this is a simplification because what is being selected is genes, which don't track exactly to individual organisms, giving rise to kin selection, and most extremely the eusocial insects)

Social darwinism is a sociological or political theory. What Im talking about is standard evolutionary theory, it applies to any organisms on earth.

Individual _variation_ within a species always follows the same genetic blueprint with defnitite minimums and maximums. For humans those have been the same for hundreds of thousands of years. Individual differences that result in the generation of completely novel traits forming into species are a result of mutagenesis, which is completely random caused by solar rays splitting DNA. Its defined as spontaneous and it is outside the scope of human variations within our species. .

>>13222430
>There is really no way I can say this politely
>>13221997
>when you say shit like this you just expose yourself

>>13222465
It is the literal basic principle of evolution by natural selection that individuals within a species vary genetically, that these variations give different reproductive success rates, and that natural selection occurs by the generation shift towards those genetic variants that have the higher reproductive rates.

>>13222475
>Natural selection is the differential survival and reproduction of individuals due to differences in phenotype. It is a key mechanism of evolution,

>the change in the heritable traits characteristic of a *population* over generations.

>Charles Darwin popularised the term "natural selection", contrasting it with artificial selection, which in his view is intentional, whereas natural selection is not.

>Variation exists within all *populations*of organisms.

>This occurs partly because random mutations arise in the genome of an individual organism, and offspring can inherit such mutations. Throughout the lives of the individuals, their genomes interact with their environments to cause variations in traits. The environment of a genome includes the molecular biology in the cell, other cells, other individuals, populations, species, as well as the abiotic environment. Because individuals with certain variants of the trait tend to survive and reproduce more than individuals with other, less successful variants,

>the *population* evolves.

Individuals don't evolve. Nothing novel is generated from genetic drift. Differences in human intelligence are differences within the species. You would have to demonstrate that modern man has evolved into a different species from historical humans. Genetic drift towards the low band of intelligence does not preclude higher intelligence in future generations. Finches with small beaks still have big beak DNA and small dogs can still have full size children when bred with large dogs.

Really, races aren't species the proposition of an IQ shredder relies on artificial selection but hides it by assuming capitalism as a natural.

>>13222542
>Variation exists within all *populations*of organisms.
This means that the variation is between individuals. Of course individuals don't evolve, I just fucking said that evolution is the selection of varying individuals(actually genes) within a population. Differences in human skin colour are also differences within the species, but everybody is aware that those differences are genetic. What is this nonsense about having to identify new species, any population of humans will have different numbers of any given gene, and indeed new genes that aren't present in other populatons.
You are also saying that all intra-species evolutionary difference is due to genetic drift, which is just completely untrue, even within a small group there will be selection for traits, let alone populations separated for 100 000 years.

>small dogs can still have full size children when bred with large dogs.
yes no fucking shit they can, because the resultant progeny has the genes for larger size, from the larger dog.


What the fuck did you think this post was accomplishing, you haven't even sort of refuted the central point I made, which again is the basic orthodoxy of evolutionary theory

>>13222581
>yes no fucking shit they can, because the resultant progeny has the genes for larger size, from the larger dog.
which are the same species

dumb people arent a new species holy shit

>>13222586
I assume youre just trolling now. I never said dumb people were a different species, or even slightly, vaguely, hinted at that. I said there is intra-species variation, both within and between populations, and that natural selection works by selecting individuals with genes conducive to fitness.

You're either being dishonest or you're genuinely a dumbass

>>13222586
if GCAT is smart and CGTA is dumb then both codes still contain the potential and can combine to make a smart. evolution into dumb would require a removal of the genetic set for intelligence altogether. this is why you would have to demonstrate actual evolutionary changes to a novel species thats not backwards compatible that eliminates the possibility of doing maths in future generations. You cant because this isn't happening and requires artificial sci-fi mass gene editing to accomplish.

>>13222609
>if GCAT is smart and CGTA is dumb then both codes still contain the potential and can combine to make a smart.
if GCAT is smart and CGTA is dumb, and one is present in one population and the second in another, then the first population, all other things being equal, will be smarter. Saying that CGTA can 'become' smart by mixing with the smart GCAT is ridiculous, what would be happening is the offspring had inherited intelligence from the one parent and not the other, but if there was selection for intelligence happening then the dumb gene carrier would not succeed in reproducing.

>>13222636
>all other things being equal, will be smarter. Saying that CGTA can 'become' smart by mixing with the smart GCAT is ridiculous, what would be happening is the offspring had inherited intelligence from the one parent and not the other,
but inherited intelligence isn't a unique sequence its a definition of how to set switches that are available in all organisms of the set (human). the make up examples aren't separate codes they are the inverse of each other, each is implied by the existence of the other and sexual reproduction and epigenetic factors can turn the switches back. Birds with small beaks don't inherit small beak genes that birds with large beaks lack they inherit the set of switches that say given the conditions, bird beak parameters: height, length, width, composition etc. dumb people have the intelligence parameter set at pattern recognition: low, they don't lack the set of genes that codes for intelligence.

>>13222709
>dumb people have the intelligence parameter set at pattern recognition: low
and often thats not even the main factor but maladaptive development due to a lack of resources that results in sub par expression of pattern recognition: average.

>>13222709
If you admit that there are genes for intelligence at all, then it is a statistical necessity that they're going to vary within and between populations, especially if there is selection for intelligence due to different environments.

>>13222722
I already agreed to this but its a myopic static snapshot of reality that doesn't account for constant genesis of new populations and is just a description of what is readily observable that doesn't offer any explanatory power for evolutionary direction over time. The environment of modern neoliberal capitalism is not eternal and natural expressions of the contradictions created by it aren't essential reflections of genetic possibility.

>>13223426
The new populations are created from the old ones, by selection of individuals under whatever given pressure, so yes it offers information about evolutionary direction over time. The environment of neoliberal capitalism is by no means eternal but you have zero evidence that it is responsible for races having different outcomes.

>>13221438
Contact with the Outside can do that to you

>>13222265
>>
>Low IQ is basically birth defects from malnutrition or poiso

This sort of dumb fucking Diamond environemntalism should get the fuck out of this thread.

>>13222301
> You seem to be saying that IQ is entirely unselected by evolution, only environmental factors matter. I find this very unlikely
It's not even unlikely what he asserts, it is untrue.

But neither is there 'finite amount physics intelligence'

>>13222348
There is no entity in existence that is 'the group'. The group does not survive and replicate. It is the individuals. Classifying them to group is a useful statistic, but that's all it remains, and taking it as something that exist and transforms is metaphysical error in thinking.

>>13222609
>You cant because this isn't happening and requires artificial sci-fi mass gene editing to accomplish.

Pretty much every IQ researcher starting from Flynn agrees we have declining IQ scores in some Western states excluding US but be blind.

>>13224349
>Pretty much every
>in some Western states
>excluding US
You had to capitulate three times to even get your point out. Do you think just saying science names makes you right?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flynn_effect
>A 2017 survey of 75 experts in the field of intelligence research suggested four key causes of the Flynn effect: Better health, better nutrition, more and better education, and rising standards of living. Genetic changes were seen as not important

>Another explanation is an increased familiarity of the general population with tests and testing. For example, children who take the very same IQ test a second time usually gain five or six points. However, this seems to set an upper limit on the effects of test sophistication.

>Another theory is that the general environment today is much more complex and stimulating. One of the most striking 20th-century changes of the human intellectual environment has come from the increase of exposure to many types of visual media.

>Improved nutrition is another possible explanation. Today's average adult from an industrialized nation is taller than a comparable adult of a century ago. That increase of stature, likely the result of general improvements of nutrition and health, has been at a rate of more than a centimeter per decade. Available data suggest that these gains have been accompanied by analogous increases of head size, and by an increase in the average size of the brain.

>Eppig, Fincher, and Thornhill (2009) argue that "From an energetics standpoint, a developing human will have difficulty building a brain and fighting off infectious diseases at the same time, as both are very metabolically costly tasks" and that "the Flynn effect may be caused in part by the decrease in the intensity of infectious diseases as nations develop."

>If the Flynn effect has ended in developed nations, then this may possibly allow national differences in IQ scores to diminish if the Flynn effect continues in nations with lower average national IQs.[54]

>Also, if the Flynn effect has ended for the majority in developed nations, it may still continue for minorities, especially for groups like immigrants where many may have received poor nutrition during early childhood or have had other disadvantages.

Wow its literally everything I already said.

>>13224379
It's not capitulating, I am referring to phenomena of declining IQ in certain Western states which should worry everyone. I wasn't even trying to assert that everyone was losing 10 points per decade.

>>13224389
>people with tall genes finally get full nutrition and express them
>lots of people 6'4''
>average goes up
>limit is hit
>average levels out dropping 1%
>PANIC THE WHITE RACE IS OVER

>>13224399
No idea why you are jumping to height when we are talking about documented, at least since 1950s, decline of IQ in certain western states.

Is this some sort of refuge? That shitskin migrants will go from 80 IQ to 85 in 100 years?

Congratulations.

Does anyone have links to Tekwars?

>>13221448
the flynn effect is limited but the evidence does not support a drop in general intelligence, just an appearance of one in some countries in europe

>>13224349
which doesn't suggest a decline in a genetic potential for intelligence

Accelerationists are so out of touch that they think Land won that debate, lmao

>>13224411
>No idea why you are jumping to height when we are talking about documented, at least since 1950s, decline of IQ in certain western states.
The graph height and general ability are correlated just like IQ and nutrition as explained in the post quoting the Flynn effect wiki.

Is 60 years of data some kind of refuge? Do you really think evolution of meaningful genetic differences happens over two or three generations? This is standard social darwinism and can be debunked by reading Origin of the Species or just not willfully misinterpreting science.

>>13224668
> Do you really think evolution of meaningful genetic differences happens over two or three generations?
Yes, as evidenced by decline in IQ in certain select European states. If it is not so, then the Industrial Revolution would also be incapable of producing 'the biggest normative rise in IQ'

> nutrition
These are ipso fact controlled as we are not talking of world but Norway and Denmark, these are developed first world nations achieving highest 'standards of living' out there.

>>13224678
do you really not understand that the flynn effect's rise in iq (and any decline thereafter) is not caused by genetics at all, and especially not human behavior influencing natural selection

>>13224686
> It's ENVIRONMENT GUYS.
Do you really not understand that the fucking Germans domesticated Zebras? Get the fuck out of this thread Jared, you are fucking stupid.

>>13224687
>it's like domestication but for humans
off yourself

>>13224618
http://shoutengine.com/TEKWARS/

The most recent one with Patrick Casey is still .paywalled

>>13224734
Wow, thanks. I actually didn't know it was open, I thought it was all behind paywall.

Patrick Casey is the federal agent behind "IDENTITY EVROPA" and some other project?

>>13224687
Why the fuck do you keep mentioning Jared? What does this have to do with anything? Guns, Germs, and Steel is fucking retarded and the opposite of what I'm saying.

Nutrition wasn't naturally deficient in non western populations because europe is some kind of special eden it was imposed through colonialism and industrialism in very recent history. See: the genesis of HIV from Belgian Congo due to keeping humans under industrial farming conditions, black plague from shitting in the streets of london, smallpox in the new world, indian and irish famines under british rule, american revolution, government burning during the depression etc

Average IQ goes down when your living under active imperial domination that takes resources required for healthy development and drops further when people are forced to live in filth and worked to the point of disease. Surprise.

The domestication of dogs horses pigs took thousands of years not hundreds and certainly wasn't accomplished in one lifetime.

>>13224323
That's not Diamond environmentalism is it? I thought Diamond's point was about the lack of beasts of burden (cows/horses vs llamas), and the cultural/tech acceleration enabled by easy East-West trade. Ie geography determining the development of cultures/populations

It would make sense that selective pressures for intelligence would be
Eurasia > Amerindian empires > isolated tribes

since the increased pace of technological advancement would provide more opportunities for "intelligence" to be beneficial

>>13224786
>since the increased pace of technological advancement would provide more opportunities for "intelligence" to be beneficial

Unfounded presupposition in my opinion. We might not fully understand intelligence and as it relates to solving actual evolutionary problems (ie. think of when individuals had to figure out changing seasons and to fit agriculture into them). I just think we assume too much about what we know about intelligence. It's certainly not something that is selected towards by evolution, or we would be hell of a lot smarter.. that is not to say that any selection has 'relaxed'. I think that's an odd take too, since it is just survival and replication. Somethings being advanced in that process. Not sure what though.

>>13224798
That's not the unfounded part of my claim. But yeah I am wrong about the selective pressures for intelligence.

In civilized society our evolution comes down to sexual selection, not natural selection. Intelligence is a consideration but not an emphasis. "Selective pressures for intelligence" tend to be culturally instantiated, for instance the high status of Rabbis and Confucian bureaucrats.

It's also possible capitalism added a selective pressure for intelligence, especially at the start of the industrial age, but that''s not for certain

>>/lit/thread/S13207513