/lit/ - Literature

>>13212145
Fuck you just go fuck yourself you fucking piece shit, don't ever come back here. Get a life you fucking abortion. You've never worked in the world you fucking cunt.

You'll be sorry, we won't ever let you come back.

We've all seen the videos, you're not gonna stop now, you're gonna fucking die from a heart attack in a car crash, we're not giving you the right to be here anymore so you better get a life.

Fuck this fucking motherfucker, get over your stupid cunt and do something decent. If you were a fucking piece of fucking shit like me, I'd be pissed off right now and screaming for you to fuck yourself. You know what? You don't know me at all and I'll never understand you. You fucking piece of shit, you just can't help it, you're a piece of shit, don't you understand that? You're just a fucking piece of fucking pussy and shit, you just don't know it. I love it when you cry.

You're just crying to get your life.

Fuck you because you're so stupid you're a piece of shit baby. You can't be any different.

Self help. Libraries and bookstores have huge sections of them

>>13212166
>tfw you realize this isn't copypasta

>>13212178
most self help is written by academics or bainlets. I want some redpilled shit that seeks to radicalize (in a healthy way) those who are lost in life and fiercely independent.

>>13212195
That looks like greyhound is shanghaiing young able orphans somewhere.

>>13212274
i wonder where they end up...

>>13212166

>>13212145
>What is this genre called?
Books you can beat your kids with.
>Any similar books?
Yes, many. In fact, they all work.
>I'm 30 btw
It's far too late for you.

>>13212469
They have to turn the wheels

>>13212195
Read the works of Dave Cohen, notably the four Flatland essays.

>>13212564
gonna need a link... preferably in mobi or azw.

>>13212145
My real liberated life is having a goat stand on me?

>>13212614
We call it foreplay in Turkey

>>13212195
> I want to read other people's advice
> I am fiercely independent
What did you mean by this?

>>13212145
That book was written by one of the prominent folks in the unschooling movement, which usually has just amounted to a more laissez-faire homeschooling. I dropped out of HS my junior year to pursue this, went to a retreat for other unschoolers (they mostly are trust fundies & weird af), then spent several years on community apprenticeships, etc. in my town. Everyone should be learning this way - if done right it prepares you for everyday life, defines your true interests, connects you to your place/people, and allows you to combine pretty disparate passions. for me, the jury is still out on whether I can sustainably make a living; so far I have scraped by with a couple days per week at a coffeeshop job. It can be a really daunting task to manage yourself, but honestly IMHO the school system is mostly there to corral the population into the specialized, atomized workforce and make sure they don't think they can figure things out without a Certified Expert handy. A great starting book I'd recommend is Deschooling Society, which is pretty hard-hitting in its indictment of not just school, but the underlying industrial system. Illich has written a lot in that vein that you might find useful.

>>13212166
>this isn't pasta
who hurt you, anon?

>>13213784
>>13212492
>>13212187
Neural network. Turns out they are pretty good at this shit if you give them a few sentences.

>>13212195
>fiercely independent.

Do you not see the irony of looking for someone to tell you how to be fiercely independent?

>>13213202

>everyone should do with I did
>I scrape by working a couple days a week at a coffeeshop

Thanks for the life advice bro

>>13215160
>implying

You must genuinely have fun licking boots

>>13215334

I like my disposable income and my boss is a pretty nice guy

>>13212614
>the goat is satan. you have to have satan dominate your life

>>13215334
Yeah, you sure as fuck are not licking the boots of your boss at the coffeeshop. Can barely sustain himself, but enjoys his freedom, that's just lovely.

>>13212195
You might like Pedagogy of the Oppressed by Paulo Friere. It's written by a Brazilian academic that basically said when you teach oppressed kids you shouldn't try to fill them with imperialist stuff but have critical conversations with them so that you both learn and grow.

>>13212166

What the fuck am I reading?

Someone forgot to take their anti-psychotics.

>>13212578

See how you can't google for shit. I'll assume you're not going to read it anyway.

https://www.declineoftheempire.com/2017/03/adventures-in-flatland-part-iv.html

>>13215523
>>13215131

>>13215483
>>13215437
>>13215160
I could work longer hours but choose not to to have more time for volunteering. ultimately most material goods are not that useful for me, and my real labor value is being expropriated to my boss anyway so why not focus more on stuff that makes me feel good and builds skills? There are also other jobs to be had; the coffeeshop just has a localist-environmentalist bent and at this early stage it's the best hope I have of a job whose larger mission I feel OK about!

>>13215873
how are you going to raise a family?

>>13213202
>>13212145
>unschooling movement
Ever think you might be falling for libertarian propaganda? Why are deeply ignorant hippies/evangelical christcucks attracted to these ideas? The current schooling paradigm might be flawed but a better alternative is always possible, just cutting parents lose to exploit their children however they see fit is no better for the kids.
It's true that certain special snowflakes might be best served by "doing their own thing", these people are probably exceptionally high IQ and suffer from abnormal personalities but most people are going to achieve notting without being given goals and forced to work towards them sadly. Get rid of school and most kids are going to be doing menial labour for their parents and having whatever their allowed to access intellectually censored by what their parents see fit.

>>13212166
Excellent imitation of an angsty 13 year old! Well done!

>>13216342
There will soon be no jobs for them to do, anyway, thanks to mass automation, so most of these kids don't need to have an "education" that was designed to get them ready for factory shift work (lining up, obeying the ringing of bells, etc.).

>>13216366
You have no idea of what you're talking about. Are you seriously claiming education today is geared towards preparing children for factory shift work? That's an extremely absurd idea. American students aren't being prepared for Foxconn factories for better or worse. The idea education isn't necessary in a highly automated society is even more strange since education becomes even more important... like I said some high IQ children might be interested in creative activity and study without any external incentive or pressure but most aren't and would spend all day just playing video games without anyone stopping them. Even in a communist utopia without jobs education would be important, even more so since it would be how to signal superiority without income.
So what are most of these people without education going to be doing? You end up with either parents controlling their children and forcing them to do what they want, conservatives really like this idea, or society should for it's own ends, liberals like this idea. Neither option is necessarily what kids will want or is even good for them but realistically that's the case. Children are the least able to escape, they are dependent.

>>13215579
>I'll assume you're not going to read it anyway.

it's a 20 page blog post. you assume correctly.

>>13216342
>>13216475
The current schooling paradigm teaches the basic coercive nature of the state from an early age. I believe in structural alternatives, but I also believe that a spare framework can exist to facilitate learning on a P2P basis, as well as continuing to ensure the kids' safety. obviously society as a whole would have to shift to accommodate this. I'm not against "school" or even drill learning per se - I just believe the kid should ultimately have autonomy in what they want to do. The point you make about laziness is fair, but the unschoolers factor in that period: they describe a "deschooling" phase of indulging previously condemned and delimited pleasures. I certainly went through that in my own experience, but after about 5 months of video games began to seek internships, write to community members I admired, explore the town, etc. for me it's worked out well; hobbies I took up have blossomed into stuff like a research grant while also connecting me to diverse agents in my territory, as well as my wider region. I'm certainly somewhat privileged, but given some free time to figure it out, almost all kids will find drive & community; they reject learning only because of the ceaseless attempts to force it on them.

>>13216246
a family is a ways off for now, but one answer is that (while this may be naive) I think it's likely wage labor will dramatically change or collapse in my lifetime. I have (and will) work to acquire skills that would support myself/a family, directly or indirectly. thankfully, some people are still open-minded about certification or lack thereof. Entrepreneurship could be a possibility down the line!

>>13216342
>>13218708
forgot to mention:

Illich talks about a system in which communities/governments issue "learning vouchers" exchangeable for currency with some light documentation of the mentor/apprenticeship involved. these are issued to the entire age range of people on an annual basis. With adjustments and greater depth, this seems like a workable step even in our modern situation.

>>13215131
>easy to use pasta machines
fuck, were gonna get flooded by a bunch of crappy pastas as more people figure neural networks out. technology was a mistake.

>>13218708
What about the schools being used as anti-American propaganda machines? The plans were made shortly after the end of WWII.

>>13219116
if it ain't one state it's t'other - the national or the international

>>13212145
Hippie bullshit

I started working and only going to school for a few hours a week when I was 16. Glad I did it to be honest, was way ahead of my 'peers' by the time I was 20. Then again had plenty of friends who dropped out at 16 to work shitty part time jobs or not at all and they havent gone anywhere in almost a decade.

>>13213202
My dumbass vegan sister loves that book but only as a thinly veiled attempt to hide the fact she's all too aware of being exactly the thing she spends most of her conversations criticizing.

>>13218708
>The current schooling paradigm teaches the basic coercive nature of the state from an early age
So the problem is they teach the truth? Everyone is a citizen of a state... it can even draft you to war at any moment. If you find that problematic then your issue isn't schooling but something else.

>learning on a P2P basis
Your peers are mostly just as ignorant, learning is asymmetrical, teacher - student is the only realistic relation that's going to get the best results generally.

>kid should ultimately have autonomy in what they want to do
If you get rid of the states coercive authority you're left with parents having total authority over their children. Who's going to enforce the "autonomy" of children? Children aren't autonomous for better or worse.

>but after about 5 months of video games began to seek internships
Why are you projecting yourself onto others? You're obviously assuming everyone's like you. Spoiler: they're not.

> I'm certainly somewhat privileged, but given some free time to figure it out, almost all kids will find drive & community
Obviously you're privileged, few people would have faith in such a baseless assumption.

>>13218727
>"learning vouchers" exchangeable for currency with some light documentation of the mentor/apprenticeship involved
These types of schemes have been implement all over the world.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/education/is-sweden-proof-that-school-choice-doesnt-improve-education

>>13219116
This is a case in point here. He's referring to the McCarthy era investigations, the Reece Committee, conducted by the infamous right wing homosexual paedophile and Donald Trump mentor Roy Cohn. All the home school types and right wingers believe in a "New World Order" conspiracy and it all goes back to these investigations. This is the stuff guys like John Taylor Gatto are citing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_House_Select_Committee_to_Investigate_Tax-Exempt_Foundations_and_Comparable_Organizations

>>13213202
>Everyone should be a high school dropout like me because I know college is stupid because I have no experience with it
Kill yourself

>>13215437
>my boss
How can you say "my boss" with a straight face? Are you a homosexual?

>>13212145
>>13212195
>>13218708
>>13213202
Pretty cool, thanks

>>13212166
pasta came before I even ordered anything
it really is that damn fresh

>>13220519
>Your peers are mostly just as ignorant
I think he may have meant p2p as in the old greek system which was more like a mentorship, objectionably a far better system since the unfit and incompetent were culled quickly to put all focus on the truly capable students. The only real evil of modern education is not only the toleration of the weak-minded but increasing and wasting more attention, more focus and more effort on them instead of putting it into cultivating the capable whom would actually benefit from it.

>>13220543
I have attended college courses and lectures, worked with professors, volunteered at functions. I am familiar with university programs!

>>13220519
everyone is a citizen of the state, but it's certainly arguable whether it's good to instill the values of obedience, specialization, and competition in supposedly democratic societies. Like the anarchists with their leaders as opposed to rulers, I also don't have an issue with the mentor/student relation, I just don't believe there should be coercion involved, and I believe learning with or from anyone is a two-way street.

the fact that this approach is untenable for most people around the world at the moment does not make the approach itself worthless. The whole point of this approach to learning is its agility in wildly different cultural contexts. humans naturally transmit knowledge this way.

>>13212145
>>13212195
>>13213202
>>13220637
Best book no leftist will ever mention, fuck all the other options

>>13222660
>both author's names end in vowels
never gonna make it

>>13222660
lol