/lit/ - Literature

I am not a piano key.

>>13142589
How the fuck do you argue against free will? There's so many versions of it. Is that it? What's the point of holding someone other than yourself reponsible when everything is in your hands?

Unironically though God or supernatural beliefs is the only way around determinism.

>>13142589
Determinism and responsibility are not incompatable, you utter moron.

>>13142603
Please explain further, I thought moral judgement has to be based on moral system, which determinisn obviously is?

>>13142589
>determinism vs free will
None of it really matters. It is a fucking boring subject that will get you nowhere and its about as self masturbatory as philosophy can get. Also Compatibilism is retarded.

Determinism is completely irrelevant, you just do what you've always done, but with the knowledge that you wouldn't have done anything else afterwards.

Congrats on your groundbreaking philosophy you fucking mongrel.

>>13142589
Idk. But I've shifted from heavy handed freewill to determinism lite over the past year or so. It's actually pretty comfy to think everything I do is preordained or already done at some point. In no way does it mean I can't take actions or anything like that

>>13143209
>you were preordained by God to lay down after masturbating with crusty semen dried on your bare penis and look down in shame on it

I don't entirely disagree with the notion but it doesn't have any effect on life even if it is true. My view on it is that determinism is pointless because we cannot accurately measure all the parameters required to make any meaningful prediction, and even if we could make the measurements we probably don't even have the computing power to make a prediction out of them.

The current (and likely enduring) impossibility of measuring every single molecule of neurotransmitters and the status of their respective receptors in a person's brain during every decision they make means that even if "free will" isn't real such a statement does not matter because you wouldn't know what is the predetermined outcome anyway. Not to mention that by measuring and observing one's own future decision might in fact alter the chemistry and then change one's decision.

>>13143166
>thinks it doesn't matter
>has a strong opinion about the only valid position
Okay.

>>13143383
>It has to be Yahweh
Sigh. I shouldn't expect any more

>>13143454
he's right tho, compatibilism is just determinism rebranded for those that want to have their cake and eat it too

>>13142589
>wow everything is pre-determined, guess i wont go fuck that roastie tonight

>>13143482
Never specified but yes it would likely be the Christian God.

>>13142589
I'm still trying to determine this myself.

>>13142589
Causation flows both ways because of emergence, iterating at different levels of complexity.

>>13142589
>What's the point of holding someone responsible if everything's predetermined
Because we aren't making moral judgements we're making value judgements. A murderer is not executed for the murder itself, which the law knows cannot be undone. A murderer is executed for being a deficient specimen with a propensity to murder and in that a potential for disruption. We are a machine for production, murderers, rule breakers, and deviants challenge the efficiency and must be removed. "Morality" and "justice" are a primitive understanding of complex systems of selection.

There is no responsibility and there is no morality. There is only forward and back.