/lit/ - Literature

>>13126136
what exactly is the “word” from John 1

>>13126195
Christ, the Son.

2nd this, why is logos translated with word? Logos has more meaning than "word"? I watched some E. Michael Jones, and letting it stand with logos makes more sense.

Can someone commend me a bible version with commentary of one of the churchfathers? German if possible.

>>13126195
>>13126217
I don't speak Greek, but the vulgate has it as "verbo vitae," which does translate directly to "word" but is really imbued in Latin with the "action" sense of the English word "verb" that derives from it.

>>13126136
Anyone got any recommendations for starting on St. Aquinas? I already read Feser's book on him, should that be enough to start in on the summa?

how do you resolve being a christian with being a chantard?

>>13126549
Aquinas himself wrote a little baby Summa which is easy to get into. Pieper and Chesterton are also good.

>>13126557

Some of them will claim to be slumming in order to convince/convert others a la jesus walking among beggars and whores, but that's bullshit and they know it. Besides, they aren't even sincere anyway, but just play-acting trad affects since they are (reasonably, but this still doesn't justify faith) disgusted by the contemporary alternative. There has never been, is not now, and never will be any such thing as a sincere Christian who uses this website.

what is some Catholic kino?

What's your favourite prayer to Our Holy Mommy?

>>13126195
>>13126217
>>13126467

Muslim here, if this will be a civil discourse im quite interested because this is something I've pondered for awhile. Its very significant that we recognize the Word as "vitae", or "life-force" here, I believe. Because if we look at from a kabbalistic and hermetic perspective, we recognize the Word (or Logos) as the active principle which energizes or gives "life" to the universe. We understand God as the First Principle, and His Word as that which generates the universe and animates it. I like to think of it as a sort of battery to the Creation. But having said this, the mystery of the relationship between God and the Word becomes manifest. Why EXACTLY was the Word God? This concept is both puzzling and reoccurring in both esoteric and exoteric texts. In the Corpus Hermeticum, Hermes Trismigestus too makes a point to say (and I paraphrase) "there is no need to separate the Mind (Logos) from God, you may think of them as one" yet further expresses that God truly is One Being and no more. Why the apparent contradiction? Is my poem Me? Or is there me and my poem? With logic, we distinguish the two, so why then, in the case of God, are they synthesized? Naturally as a Muslim I rebuke the notion of Jesus as God incarnate, however, I do believe he incarnates the Word, but that the Word is NOT God wholly, and that the perception of such is either a misunderstanding or a simplification of a vastly complex idea that somehow, in conclusion, does not contradict the Oneness of the Lord. In a past discourse on the matter, it was mentioned to me "when a child sees his reflection, he does not recognize it as different from himself, but through rational thought he learns the distinction" and we agreed that this may be the parallel means of understanding the Word conflation. We understand, in Kabbalistic terms, the Word as the Second Principle, or "mirror" of God, and with man's intellect, feign to totally comprehend the divine mysteries, we interpet the mirror as the Thing Itself, similarly to as a child might, until reason disrupts the confusion. But as our reason, and I mean the sublunary intellect rather than divinely realized Reason, is incapable of processing such phenomenon thoroughly, it makes the same mistake in attempting to grasp the nature of these principles. My stance is that the Word to the Lord is the poem to the Poet, but in our initial divinations of this matter, we were unable to conceice of such reality, and decided it needless to separate the two. OR, there is truth in the statement, but again, it is too complicated to truly grasp, at least in rational terms. The question remains, what is the significance in a nondual understanding of the Word and the Creator, as opposed to the understanding provided by sound reason.

>>13126136
i want to cum inside dat virgin

>>13126557
>>13126590
Nah, I'm just a sinner like all Christians. There's this weird idea amongst non-Christians that only saints are real Christians but scripture clearly says otherwise. "I come not for the righteous" etc

You have to pretend to be looking for Catholic literature in the OP or else the autistic mods will delete it.

>>13126136
Serious question, I know you guys are probably sick of being blamed for the actions of a few higher ups, but how do you justify staying within this Church knowing what we now do about its protection of pedophiles for decades? I go to a Catholic uni, and would ordinarily have had a lot of sympathy/interest in the faith, but that seems like a moral atrocity too big to really get past, to me. And the sort of thing that's hard to correct, when the whole system is so hierarchical and resistant to change. Idk, anytime I see a priest nowadays the first thing that comes to mind is wondering if some poor kid has to deal with a lifetime of trauma because of him.

>>13126723
Yeah I am tired of hearing about it

>>13126195
Logos. Greek for word. The NT was written in Greek.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logos_(Christianity)

>>13126723
The Church is the bride of Christ. The actions of a few bad men deserve remedy and contempt, but the Church herself is immaculate. Turning our back on her would be turning our back on Christ. On the kingdom of heaven itself. That will not happen.

>>13126723
The Church is clearly in crisis, but the strength of its duty and its history must help us pull through and stand with it. The Church isn't its hierarchy as you've probably heard Catholics say before, but it's also not all it's living members. It's a ship of souls and in it sail the dead, the living and those yet to be born.

The current putrid rot within it is very hard to bear, but must be taken as a test. The Church will "outlast the gates of hell," and we can't abandon it.

Like deep rooted corruption in any institution it will take generations of hard work to cleanse.

>>13126136
What the fuck does this have to do with literature?

I've heard on this website many times that Christianity borrowed certain theological/philosophical ideas from the Greeks.

Some of the Greeks believed in reincarnation, but Christianity seems to have abandoned that entirely for a single life and a chance at heaven/hell.

But truthfully I'm not even sure how prominent the idea of heaven is in the Gospels. Jesus tells Dismas that he will be with Him in paradise, and elsewhere talks about the Kingdom of God, or His Kingdom being not of this world. But it all seems cryptic.

All that being said, does anyone have any book recommendations that expounds on the ideas of heaven/hell/reincarnation from a Christian viewpoint.

>>13126773
Read the thread. People are asking questions about the text. Why did you come to a containment thread and whine about how Catholic sacred texts are not poetry or postmodern garbage? Just go, you're using up too much oxygen for your dumb brain.

>>13126136
I've recently been reading the gospels. I got stuck on this passage in Matthew 27, what do all you think of it?

"Then Jesus cried again with a loud voice and breathed his last. At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two, from top to bottom. The earth shook, and the rocks were split. The tombs also were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised. After his resurrection they came out of the tombs and entered the holy city and appeared to many." (Authorised Catholic Translation)

>>13126773
Catholicism is a literary creation and achievement, a faith built upon a corpus, starting with the Bible of course, then the Desert Fathers, Augustine, scholastics,mystics, byzantines, Aquinas, Dante, even stuff "secular" Medieval works (and even some later) form part of its corpus and imaginarium. Hell, even pre-Christian literature has been "co-opted" into Catholicism, take the basic example of Plato and Aristotle for one.
Catholicism has everything to do with literature.

>>13126775
Garrigou's Three Ages of the Interior Life.

In short, the eternal life with God begins in this mortal life. I wouldn't call it reincarnation. More like a reunification with the father by configuring oneself to Christ.

You're right about the Greeks. Many of the authors of the New Testament and members of the early Church were Hellenized Jews. They understood God already to a degree, when Jesus came in the flesh and revealed to them the truth. Look it up. Eventually the pagans were outlawed, the teaching places of the Platonists closed, and the study of Scripture in developing theology became the subject of the Scholastics and the middle ages.

>>13126796
It's dumbass Mathew making stuff up again so jesus can fulfill all the prophecies.

Why did God seperate us with nations and tongues? Why shouldn't we build the Tower of Babel? Isn't everyone coming together a good thing? Are we supposed to be nationalists?

>>13126811
So the gospel is lying?

>>13126136
Eternally tight virgin cunny needs to be defiled by my barbed demon cock.

>>13126773
that all the best writers were catholics (even Hemningway converted to Catholicism). Except for the Russians that were ortodoxs, but we are ok with them.

>>13126751
>>13126757

You don't see the irony in ascribing Christological ideas to the Catholic Church? That Jesus rebukes the Teleology of the Church, "whited sepulchres" and such, and that the Catholic not only does not heed but doubles down on being a Pharisee? It's like he took it upon himself to do everything Jesus rebukes in Matthew 23, word for word. Though I do maintain that deducing the Catholic Church as affirmed by Jesus from Matthew 16:18 is Logically flimsy enough in and of its own, suppose I concede the point, and ignore the broader ideas regarding the rebuke of institution in general in favor of personality, etc. I still see no Christianity in Catholicism. Just take Matthew 16:19, I don't suppose the "binding" of Aristotle to ill-informed Cosmologies or the "loosing" of assorted pedophiles are now consecrated? Granted, Jesus alone might make me call it Christian so you do have a point.

>>13127433
If the Church has a sin, it is ignoring Christ's words: do not cling to me.

We worship and revere him because of his Passion, because of his promises to us, because he is God. But it seems too frequently we forget that while he is the central tenet of the faith, what he preached is still more important. That is why he came. He came as the Word of God. This is the trap many religious fall into, it leads to schism and purity tests.

Christian teen cunny is the sweetest and sluttiest. I like to licky lick their sin zone.

>>13126136
Catholicism is a pagan sun-worshipping cult.

>>13126625

It's important to know that Incarnation, at least in the Christian sense, does not mean the synthesis of any Dualism or a "Newtonian" transformation of God into Man. Rather, Tawhid is seen as "exploding" and Man being made good and free precisely by being made a Monad himself. This is to the affirmation of Tawhid. Philosophically: that not even another Monad can violate the principle, Ontologically: that the Creator-Creation distinction is most simple and is also one, Morally: that God does not make or want robots but Ones that are immanently free. etc. Indeed, it affirms Tawhid as "positive", that God is not One in the Numerical sense, not by exemption from an Other but despite an Other.

>>13126620
Ave Maris Stella
https://youtu.be/6mcxEtyEUw4

>>13126796

The CURTAIN of the TEMPLE hmmmMMMMMMMMMMMM?

>>13126136
do you radtrads really believe christian married couples will go to hell for non-procreative sex (blowjobs, etc)? This would seem to straddle the line between grave and mortal sin. Many seem to have the attitude of "well I told you it's wrong so now if you do it you're going to hell" but the catechism itself with regards to some sins such as masturbation says that despite the gravity of the offense a large number of other factors likely reduce culpability. thoughts? coming from a protestant background, the very concept just seems outright ridiculous

I saw an angel once

God had mercy on me and sent one of His servants

Truly wonderful

>>13126549
It would be best to start with an abridged version of the Summa. I really like Peter Kreeft's Summa of the Summa.

>>13126796
>>13128156

The CURTAIN of the TEMPLE hmmmMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM?

>>13128239
Purgatory, not hell

>>13128239
blow jobs are allowed, your just not allowed to cum from it

>>13126136
You that Catholicism is just a form of protosocialism

A reminder that Dominicans are the best order.

>>13128796
that's not what I'm referring to. also that's lame.
>>13128700
thank you for the response, can you expound a bit?

>>13129061
it's a catholic cope

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGH20H8AV2U

https://youtu.be/1Inhvt2uYOw

>>13129016

YOUR CONCEPT OF WHAT IS BEST IS ERRONEOUS.

>>13129256
>image posting
>space after postnumber posting
>caps posting
>trip posting
all of that attention seeking for such a dull comment

>>13129280
>image posting

You're on an image board, retard.

>>13129423

>>13126600
not that trash

>>13126600

>>13126723
>anytime I see a priest nowadays the first thing that comes to mind is wondering if some poor kid has to deal with a lifetime of trauma because of him.

Do you feel the same when you see a school teacher, coach or any other adult who works with children? Statistically those groups are more likely to abuse children than Catholic Clergy.

I've read too much Guenon and Evola and learned too much without proper spiritual grounding. Occultism has turned me into a shell of my former self. I feel like some Promethean solipsist, using the term without any sort of romantic undertones.

I want to get back into the Catholic faith seriously, but I have never been able to adhere to a moral code well without being constantly osculating between zeal and apathy. I had weeks where I would pray roughly analogous to what a monk would pray, and then in between I would have months where I would be an absolute degenerate since I was so demoralized after failing in No Fap and various scrupules. Such things are not healthy, everyone would agree, but they almost seem built into my experience of the faith. I end up being so scrupulous that I cannot take it and just stop practicing it all together; yet as anyone knows, the faith still persists in the back of my conscious. Small things will absolutely rail upon me and bigger things I will not be able to sleep over. I simply roll in bed and slowly go crazy until I give up any sort of morality all together. Only then am I happy, yet at the same time I am not spiritually satisfied. It seems like it is always one or the other, not the two. I intensely dislike confession for that reason; maybe it is just simple pride. However, it acts as reinforcement of the social weakness I have felt throughout my life, transmuted into the spiritual/moral plane.

It's for that reason I was so attracted to the Traditionalists, for within their work there is very little, if any mention of morality. However, I have come to see that I cannot progress in spiritual development until I have gained full control of the moral sense of the individual and mastered the self. I think Guenon would agree with that sentiment anyways, for his work is dealing with such high spiritual states that are so beyond what I will experience at least for the near future. Additionally, I also believe there is something mystical and universal to all cultures in the control of the sexual urge, which I cannot fully understand yet.
Either way, I want to get back into the faith, but I've never had success in dealing with the moral aspect thereof. If someone could recommend a good book for such a sentiment, that would be nice. I read the Brothers Karamazov and I found myself to be in possession of the guilt of Ivan, the debauchery of Mitya, and the meekness of Alyosha all at once. It was a psychologically edifying book, but not satisfactory or cathartic to me. I still have yet to see a resolution for the problem of scruples. Maybe this is just a cope though and perhaps my scruples aren't even scruples at all and are just basic moral instincts that I've suppressed through my debauchery for so long. Perhaps I was just becoming acquainted with normal human emotion and always run from it. Who knows? I've asked a priest these sort of questions, but I can't express myself well enough, hence this post.

How is there an afterlife? People with alzheimer's have their brains slowly turn into mush so what difference would it be when the whole brain dies?

>>13130255
It is more reasonable to assume religion is an evolutionary device, but even if we do not want to consider this possible, all professional scientists are obligated to consider the possibility.

If prayer works as the bible says, in principal can't we just take a statistical survey of it? Wouldn't that make it no different than any quantitatively analyzing any other causal relationship of events as in science?

>>13130825
do you think it's very plausible?

>>13130924
That there is an afterlife? It is hard for me to put myself back in state of mind where it is true, be because it seems absurd. This is most prescribed to experiences and amorality, but something about spirituality feels necessary to study in order to appreciate life.

I don't get how can people accept the pope as infallible and as a final a utimate authority on the dogma.
Yea don't quote me the stone or keys passage it really does not explain it.

>>13130953
What is your belief system? Are you an agnostic? Just wondering

>>13129922
Those aren't moral authorities dude. Are you seriously trying to sidestep the issue by bringing up teachers? They actually go to jail btw not just moved around.

>>13130976
Formerly a Christan many times over, and I romanticize spiritual values despite being a mathematician. Unfortunately I'm convicted amorality and probably panpsychism, and it makes me an atheist.

>>13130971
Well then how do you want the question to be answered for you?
"Although those things which are beyond man's knowledge may not be sough for by man through his reason, nevertheless, once they are revealed by God, they must be accepted by his Faith."

Has /cath/ lost friends or ended relationships over their views on abortion?

>>13126723
It's an emotional problem more than an intellectual one. The clergy have always been sinners and that has never changed or contradicted the truth they teach. Peter himself sinned by denying Jesus immediately after being called the rock and given the keys so there is a precedent for it.

Not to downplay it but a good bit of the "coverups" aren't actually coverups at all, but it's the church leaders doing what psychiatrists at the time recommended. I point this out because it's easily forgotten. In the 60's and 70's it was commonly thought by the academic world that being gay or being a pedophile was a psychological condition that could be treated. So the church sent offenders for treatment and when they came back "cured" they were allowed to return to work, because why wouldn't they be? They were often moved to a different diocese for he benefit of victims, so they no longer had to interact with the "cured" rapist.

>>13126773
>The greatest story ever told
>The best selling book in existence
Querying why it has anything to literature

>>13131882
No, and I would strongly advise against losing valuable personal connections over such things. We are all sinners, and in dark times such as these we must be more charitable than ever towards others in their sin. You can't deprive those close to you of your love, or yourself of theirs, because of their views.

I would avoid talking to friends and relatives directly about politicised issues such as abortion, homosexuality, etc. Instead, try to talk to them about charity, about God's love and about the fate of the immortal soul. If you can help them see these things more clearly then it is highly likely that they will come to side with the Church on specific issues.

>>13131002

Fuck off christcucks

>>13131903
>Jesus taught that the goal of the Christian is to become as Jew-like as possible. Jews are the Christian's racial role models. Christians go to church in order to wish to be Jews, pretend to be Jews or learn how to be Jews. The Christian god's favorite race are the Jews. The invented story of fake Jesus starts when the Jewish race-god Yahweh chose a Jewess to breed with in order to create a Jewish messiah. The Jews watched Jesus come out of the hirsute Jewess that the Jew-god made pregnant. Jew-born Jesus studied Judaism and became a Jewish rabbi. He wore a yamaka. The Jewish messiah usually preached about Jews and the Jewish race-god. Jesus taught that the Holy Spirit comes from Jewishness and that the world would be saved if whites bred with Jews. Christians believe that hereditary Jewishness is the source of Jesus' magical powers. The inventors of Christianity gave Jesus preposterous magical powers as an enticement to cross-breed with Jews. The church was invented by Jews as an extension of the seed-maker of Abraham, so that whites and Jews could cross-breed. The Jew-king Jesus is portrayed as white, so as to deceive Europeans into believing that their king is a Jew and that cross-breeding with Jews will yield white children. Christians circumcise their children so they can breed with Jews. Churches give the money they collect to Jews to convert and inter-marry with whites. Christians name their children with Jewish names. The pope and cardinals wear Jewish yamakas. Every Christian ritual is indistinguishable from Judaism. This signals the magic pro-Semitic racist Asian Jew-god called Yahweh, so he'll let Christians into heaven for being Jew-like. At the entrance to heaven, where the god of the Jews and the king of the Jews live, is a Jewish clerk that examines how Jewish you are. The Christian is motivated by a set of perverted ideals based on hirsuteness and race. His only plan is to turn you into a Jew
>Greatest story ever told

>>13131942
It's funny how some will criticize the Church for being anti-semetic while others accuse the Church of being too Jewish. It's a paradox.

>>13131942
>Drove the (((merchants))) from the temple
>Betrayed by (((Judas)))
>Implying Catholics like Jews

>>13126600
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vatican%27s_list_of_films
John Waters is not "kino." He's a creep who makes smut for fellow creeps. I don't think he ever likes movies. An artist, sure, but certainly not a good one

>>13131939
>including atheists
Atheists tend to be worst at holding dogmatic beliefs than catholics.

>>13131942
how many catholic countries have the jews been kicked out of?

Fuck catholics they're all superiority-complex assholes

Just got into reading Master Eckhart. I can't see why the guy was labeled heretic, what was Vaticans problem?

>>13127713
This is a large part of the Church's superiority over other sects of Christianity. While others fight for a sterile interpretation of Christianity compatible with modernity and materialism, the Church is able to seamlessly integrate life and vitality into complex theological traditions and structures. The Church creates order and strength out of weakness and impurity, fulfilling its role as the ultimate redeemer. I can't say in good faith that I'm a Catholic, but I do feel that the Roman Church is without question the most spiritual and well-ordered form of Christianity, most especially because it retains this legitimate and justified energy--not a good old time religion American sideshow, but a force with meaning, Christian purpose, and sincerity.

In a sense it is borderline polytheistic, and yet it is also monotheistic. The contradictions of the Church are innumerable, its intellectual contortions are daring and dazzling. Synthesizing them all into a pure and coherent whole is what makes its teachings so appealing and thoughtful

>>13131963
>And then in a quiet hour a strange thought struck me like a still thunderbolt. There had suddenly come into my mind another explanation. Suppose we heard an unknown man spoken of by many men. Suppose we were puzzled to hear that some men said he was too tall and some too short; some objected to his fatness, some lamented his leanness; some thought him too dark, and some too fair. One explanation (as has been already admitted) would be that he might be an odd shape. But there is another explanation. He might be the right shape. Outrageously tall men might feel him to be short. Very short men might feel him to be tall. Old bucks who are growing stout might consider him insufficiently filled out; old beaux who were growing thin might feel that he expanded beyond the narrow lines of elegance. Perhaps Swedes (who have pale hair like tow) called him a dark man, while negroes considered him distinctly blonde. Perhaps (in short) this extraordinary thing is really the ordinary thing; at least the normal thing, the centre. Perhaps, after all, it is Christianity that is sane and all its critics that are mad—in various ways.

>>13131871
How can you accept the infallible pope only of faith?
You are putting Godly characteristics on a a man. Only Jesus was infallible on earth.

Jesus was only made "god" so madonna could be made "mother of god", furfilling the mother godess archetype from babylon. Ishtar is the godess of war and sex (fertility).
Catholics during the (arguably based) battle of lepanto prayed to mary instead of god or jesus for victory. (Received)
Ishtar's symbols are rose and lion.
Mary's symbol is rose. Rosicrucians. Jesus is named lion of judea.

....

Jesus is still based though.

Do you mind an orthodox heretic chiming in?

>>13132508
Mary is a war godess.
Christian idolatry is in conflict with the command not to worship idols.

Paul (proud farizeer and executor of christians) hijacked the christian movement

Can someone help me out with this, I'm certain I'll have Catholic bias posting here and you'll probably hate my guts, but I wouldn't know where else to post this. Apologies in advance for the blog post.

Half a week ago a Jehovah's Witness girl came around to my house with this middle-aged woman. I know the extreme-sect shit and their history really well but what drew me in was the fact that the girl was this pure beam of light, someone you could really imagine having a pure life with. I'm Agnostic, I was raised Protestant in this rural village in England and after my mother died of cancer when I was like 12, I promptly gave up with the church (although I had an atheist-retard week, after reading I remain a sceptic on all fronts).
Fast forward to the present day, I'm in my mid-twenties, it seems my Christian values never truly left me and I'm faced with a world (largely immoral in the current state of England) but also without the power of faith behind me. Deep down I want to believe in God, but I can't (frankly I think a lot to do with Jesus is... unrealistic).
I feel like if I went to get baptised, It'd be fraudulent of me in spirit, but remaining an Agnostic who is merely interested in Biblical literature is lacklustre.
Part of me just wants to be Christian because it seems like it's the only way to be in a relationship with a girl who's not a whore. The other part of me is maybe just pulling towards Christianity because I feel like it's an easy fix for becoming a better person.
Ideally I would be living in a land where smiling-submissive housewives are the norm and men of God are more common to talk to (in my town the only people who welcome such discussions are the LDS, who are nice enough.)
A lot of this is just cope for not having a beautiful family for more than 9 or so years. It's such a shame the state isn't more moral, maybe then I wouldn't feel so bad for being Agnostic, but I get the feeling that the only way I'm going to achieve peace is through these communities even if I don't believe in them, I'm at a crossroads here and I can't return to the degenerate side of life but I can't progress either due to scepticism.

>>13132486
Papal infallibility is a historical argument, and it's believed on the strength of evidence just as any other historical event is believed to have happen. Jesus was a real person and instituted a church with a particular hierarchy, and one of the roles of that hierarchy was to teach truth.

It's reasonable to believe that Jesus is God because that would be the best explanation for his post crucifixion appearances. When Jesus instituted the Church he promised to protect the apostles from teaching error when he said "whatever you bind on earth is bound in heaven" and he instituted the office of Pope when he symbolically gave Peter the keys to the kingdom.

The keys and the reference to Isaiah 22 are very important and I'll explain why. David ruled from 1010 to 970 BC. However, his dynasty continued after his death. Hezekiah became the king of Judah at the age of 25 approximately 265 years after King David's death. Hezekiah's rule from 715 to 687 was marked by a great religious reform. It was during his reign that Shebna, the prime minister or royal steward (Is 22:15) was removed from his office:

>Behold, the Lord will hurl you away violently, O you strong man ... I will thrust you from your office, and you will be cast down from your station" (Is 22:17, 19).

>Eliakim will be installed in his place as prime minister (Is 22:20-22). The symbol of that office is "the key of the house of David" (Is 22:22).

The point of Jesus' reference to Isaiah 22 is to indicate that Peter will also be given an office in Jesus' kingdom, which is his Church. That office will continue as long as Jesus' kingdom on earth continues. Jesus is the new Moses. Like the first Moses, Jesus established a priestly hierarchy in his kingdom. Peter and his successors are the chief ministers in that kingdom, the rock upon which Jesus will build his Church.

>>13132528
I can understand being attracted to beauty but not the disregard of truth. The Church could be perfect and everything covered in gold but if it isn't true then I'm out. There would be no meaning to it so I know I couldn't be happy. Every little imperfection would drive me mad.

>>13132486
Different anon, but it is noteworthy that the Church draws a marked line that distinguishes the man from his office. The pope still has to get on his knees before his confessor when his conscience is burdened by sin.

>>13132581
I'm glad you are able to understand.
It's a shame our society has to equate it's Godlessness to advocating complete immorality. I won't touch /pol/ semantics but they might have an inkling, if only from a batshit insane point of view in regards to weaponized Atheism.

A lot of my problems are to do with not being able to find this kind of old-world-traditional-decency outside of Church communities.
These church communities (for the most part) seem to be the only places where I fit (morally) in, despite being Agnostic, due to my upbringing which seems like a living purgatory.

Read Lord of the World to excite yourself about being one of the last Catholics in this demon-infested modern world

>>13132533
Jesus tells the apostles 2 times they are all equals and not one of them is the biggest.
And if that is true for the apostles (witch j aggre with) how does it transfer to the pope today.

How certain are you guys that there is a soul? Do you think it's physical or metaphysical? Serious question

>>13132690
I agree to an extent. The other apostles do have authority but the reason Peter is elevated is because there can only be one supreme chief minister of the Church, just as there could have only been one supreme chief minister or "keyholder" of the Davidic kingdom to act as an arbitrator among the other ministers.

>>13132700
100%
Metaphysical most likely how can it be phisical maybe there is a phisical connection to the soul but that is it.

>>13126195
Bird

>>13132528
You seem skeptical even of your own sincerity, which is an unfortunate infirmity of the soul. To live in accordance with God's will is attractive; there's no shame in finding it so. There are many who find it detestable and turn their backs completely on God. That you find the truth attractive is a blessing, even if you cannot yet bring yourself around to believe in it.

>>13133082
look at this bunch of ol' second century frankincense-reeking GOAT PIMPS with tzatziki stuck in their beards

>>13133183
t. babypowder-reeking kiddy fiddler

>>13133183
i look at them and i see old people radiating happiness.

>>13126813
The tower is like a battering ram that is meant to break into God's property. Grace is given not taken.

>>13132508
>>13132521
>Mary is a war godess.

we know m8. nothing new.

btw, where were the orthofaggs and the prostecucks during the battle of lepanto?. Without that victory europe would be speaking arab/turk right now.

>>13126195
NIGGER!

>>13126796
I can't remember what part of it is in the Summa, but St Thomas Acquinas uses the verse as evidence of the end of the Religion of Moses. Earlier in Matthew 23:16-22 Jesus asks what is greater the things inside the temple or the temple that sanctify them. When Christ dies, it begins a period of where the rites and ceremonies of the Mosaic Law can be performed but do not save people's souls anymore which is why the Apostles still keep the Sabbath in Acts. Once the Temple is destroyed, the rites, ceremonies, sacrifices and priesthood of the Mosaic Law end and become now sinful to keep. Because what is greater: those things or the Temple that sanctifies them?

>>13126849
Of course lol

>>13133082
Nice greentext you have there. That's how you know the Orthodox are intellectuals.

>>13134488
here's more greentext for you
>can't refute

>>13134502
You're right. I can't refute what I don't read.

>>13134521
>catholic doesn't read
shocking

>>13134530
I didn't say I didn't read. I have to question you're ability now.

>>13134542
>you're ability
can't write either it seems

>>13134559
I wanted to give you an easy out so you didn't feel too stupid

>>13134567
sure thing buddy

>>13132881
Thanks for your insightful reply. In most trivial things I can resist playing the devil's advocate and merely pretend, but with faith, as I said, due to the circumstances of my upbringing I cannot but argue with myself on this.
I know doubting thomas' are loathed within the community and I would be adding to it if joining prematurely.
I don't have an urge to be at the whim of a higher power, but I have an inkling (why I'm Agnostic and not atheist) that their is a reason for all this chaos, even if it's infinitely complex and it is likely driven by God's will.
Every time I try and convince myself to believe I just open up more arguments against it along with evidence of God.
It's tearing me up because I know the likelihood of being in a relationship with a moral agnostic woman in the current decade is excessively slim.

Has anybody read this guys writings?

Did any of the Church Fathers or even any pre-modern theologian talk about a "personal relationship with Jesus Christ"? Every time I hear that phrase it doesn't fit quite right with me. It sounds like something you would hear in a protestant mega church, except I have been hearing Catholics use the term as well.

If it was used in earlier times, I'm sure it had a different meaning than what we possibly prescribe to the phrase today.

>>13130073
do you think that you're demanding moral perfection for yourself too early? Flipping between the two extremes of debauchery and ascetic monkhood is obviously not working for you, as banal as it seems maybe just trying to approach moral self mastery with a bit of proportion and patience is the way to go
I'd say finding the right priest or another spiritual guide would be of great benefit, you don't necessarily need to communicate the crux of the problem to them in the first meeting

>>13134571
Faith comes and goes even for the faithful. Flannery O'Connor once remarked that 'Lord, I believe; help my unbelief' is the most natural and most human and most agonizing prayer in the gospel. To be sure, the suffering brought upon by the doubts of those who want to believe is some of the greatest. I feel for you bro and I will pray for you.

>>13126136
i like catholicism, but have reservations because i'm not sure if its just the aesthetic that appeals to me. also, i feel like deferring to the church on everything isn't intellectually honest.

t. protestant

>>13134837
>Lord, I believe; help my unbelief
fucking lmao, absolute state of christcucks

>>13126136
Any opinions on pic related? Is it worth reading? Good place to start?

>>13135007
Definitely not a “place to start.” What point are you at in your readings? What are your specific interests?
This book is certainly not a good general introduction to Christianity, it’s quite specific.

What Should I read after Heretics and Orthodoxy?

>>13135226
I'm vaguely interested in platonism/neo platonism and christian theology. The title seemed almost golden in that it referenced both my interests. I havent really read too much yet on either subject other than a few of platos myths and some catholic priest talking about a free mason conspiracy. I've read most of the gospels, some of the epistles and some literature from my (non catholic) church.

>Go to mass on Sunday
>Take seat in pew near the back
>The pews are not even close to full
>When the congregation is asked to stand I can see over the heads of everyone
>All I see are bald heads and heads of white hair
>Spot a few parents in their late 30s/ early 40s with one or two children each
>I am I the only white man attending mass older than 13 and younger than 35

It's a dead religion.

>>13135290
Forgot to mention
>Priest gives sermon on loving refugees

>>13135290
t. Has never left burgerland

>>13135268
You should be fine mate, just finish up with the Gospels and maybe read Purdue’s book on Plotinus. The Camus should give you a good overview of your field of interest and serve as a strong guide to the primary sources.

>>13135421
Thanks fren

>>13135415
Same in australia

This may seem like a real stupid question, but where do you get started with Catholic/Christian Literature?

I became an atheist at a very young age. I was dragged to a southern baptist church on early Sunday mornings, had to listed to christian rock and then sing a random hymn and eat some sort of fried food on the way out. It all seemed stupid to me then.

But after accidentally ingesting an asinine amount of psychedelics and eventually listening to Jordan Peterson's "Psychological Significance of the Biblical Stories" on my way to work for a while I have become increasingly interested in Catholicism and what it represents.

So to understand it do you just read the bible and study it? Are there other works like The Divine Comedy and Paradise Lost that you read too? Are there specific books that touch on the symbolism and what it means? Is there a specific version of the bible that is best to read? Are there specific eras that the literature can be divided into, and can it be divided into the ways people are interpreting Catholicism?

Basically what works/authors are recommended if not just the Bible.

mommy

>>13135579
You don’t need to read all of the Bible front to back to get started with the other stuff btw. Read the Gospels and the Epistles and then slowly work your way through the rest, not “in order” but as your other readings arouse your interest.

>>13135597
Thank you for the list. I appreciate it.

>>13135290
The Novus Ordo worship you describe most certainly is dying. That is correct and to be expected. However, traditional Catholicism is beginning to regain what it lost after the second Vatican Council and thus the same demographic changes cannot be applied to it. The traditional parish I go to is packed with huge young families.

I've been typing, deleting, and retyping a reply to a post on /r9k/ (yeah, I know) for about half an hour.
The thread in question concerns an anon who wants to have faith in God in his life because he finds it painful to be materialistic, nihilistic, and an atheist, and he wants to have meaning in his life.
One question he asked was this:
>Assuming you believe in god, why do you believe in it? What is your evidence? This isn't a gotcha' question, I would genuinely like for you to change my mind -- although admittedly that will be tough to do.
I'm struggling to articulate a reply properly, not because my faith is on shaky ground, but because I simply can't put in words the experiences of the Spirit that led me to faith. It feels like every time I write out something it's full of pitfalls and lapses in judgement.
What does /cath/ say in response? How do you articulate your reasons for believing in a way that would lead a skeptical but curious outsider to seek after belief himself, or at least look into it?

>>13129256
i like the paintings you post

what are some good books about the historical life of Jesus?

>>13126723
if you don't hold fast to the Church at its worst, you don't deserve her at her best

>>13135882
the gospels.

>>13133434
don't forget the Siege of Vienna, that was even more crucial

from luke 22 36:

"But now the one who has a purse must take it, and likewise a bag; and the one who has no sword must sell his cloak and buy one."

what are the swords for?

>>13133434
>implying you consider Mary a goddess
Fake papist.

>>13135597
I read half of the brothers karamazov and got to the long awaited, heavily hinted at climax, and i was extremely disappointed so I stopped. Is it worth finishing? Is the second half as good as the first?

>>13134488
>>13134530

>That's how you know the Orthodox are intellectuals
The Orthodox neo-palamite (and therefore modernist but apparently it doesn't count when orthoLARPers do it) critique on Catholic theology is exactly that's it's too "intellectual" and "rational", and instead we should treat theology as a "mistery" that doesn't need any coherence because "it's magic I ain't gotta explain shit".
So tell me again why you think Orthos are the intellectual ones?
You think posting a meme-picture and taking it seriously is a sign of intelligence and intellectualism?
Come back to /lit/ when you're at least 18 years old

>>13133082
>not even all the people in the pictures are in communion with each other
lmao you guys are a joke

>>13126600

>>13136286
>no Risen
[stares at you in Latin]

Post powerful, underrated prayers:

http://catholocity.net/prayers/universal_prayer.htm

>>13126217
Literally read Faust by Goethe. Faust tries to translate "Logos" as "word" there at first but then realizes he was wrong and translates it with "Deed".
Goethe was a smart boy

But I dont think the catholics would like his approach to christianity

>>13135239
The Everlasting Man
St Francis of Assisi and St Thomas Aquinas by Chesterton

>>13136302
literally mantra tier bullshit

>>13136327
explain yourself demon. There isn't even repetition in the prayer? Are you stupid or something?

>>13132107
Christians are spiritually semites. Pope Pius XI
Jesus and His Holy Mother were Jews. The Apostles too.
Abraham is the spiritual Father of all Christians.
All of Israel will be saved. St. Paul.

>>13136177
Are you autistic?

Jesus ain't real

>>13136420
No. Are you?

>>13136421
no shit, but it's fun to imagine he his so I can add an aesthetic to my "you're a degenerate bugman" shitposting

>>13136433
No I'm not. The reason I asked you is because took an obvious joke literally.

>Mfw Gnostic masterrace

You gotta reincarnate until your soul is pure enough to split off from this material dimension and ascend closer to God!
Dont worship idols!
JESUS CHRIST NEVER TOLD US TO WORSHIP THE POPE. JESUS CHRIST NEVER TOLD US TO WORSHIP HIS MUM. JESUS CHRIST... I DARESAY, NEVER TOLD US TO WORSHIP HIM.

>>13136719
If you're gnostic why are you running your mouth? You have secret knowledge and you're meant to keep it that way.

Is LOTR sinful?

>>13136778
yes since any depiction is against God's will, even though the churches try pathetically to interpret that law in their favour... even the Muslims understood why this is important

>>13136286

>>13136778
No, its a catholic fairy tale through and through, intnentionally so.

Christ be with you, my brothers.

>>13136177
>we should treat theology as a "mistery" that doesn't need any coherence because "it's magic I ain't gotta explain shit"
You should. Regurgitating Greek philosophy didn't help you at all, that's why Pentecostals exist today. Christianity is about selling superstitions and a magical worldview, the moment you start trying to make it rational is when you lose your clientele.

>>13126600
i will not rest until everyone has seen this film

>>13136778
Tolkien was a devout Catholic and wrote LOTR as a kind of retelling of the Bible.

>>13137901
The Lord of the Rings was a retelling of 73 different books? How so?

>>13126467
Verbo vitae = Word of lifes (Latin)
Verbo means Word(s)/message and is a latin Word
LOGOS Is greek and doesn't mean 'word' but intellect/reason/study

>>13137901
He wrote it as a type of mythology the British Isles never had in the same vein as the Sagas or Beowulf, etc.
Claiming it's a retelling of the Bible in anyway is extremely disingenuous

>>13126723
Catholic Uni
>Is Italy your country?
Pedo priests is a church Scandal that has nothing to do with the Catholicism itself.
And I am an atheist

>>13137931
The characters of Gandalf, Aragon, and Frodo are like Christ split up in three characters. Gandalf is like Christ's priestly side who can perform miracles such as resurrection. Frodo is like Christ in that he carries the burdensome ring as Christ carries his cross and as they both reach Mt Doom and Mt Calvary the ring and Cross becomes increasingly heavy. I forgetting how Aragon relates to Christ other than they're both kings. I'm no scholar on this nor have I even read LOTR only seen the movies but there's a ton of Catholic commentary on the books and movies.

“The Lord of the Rings is of course a fundamentally religious and Catholic work; unconsciously so at first, but consciously in the revision. That is why I have not put in, or have cut out, practically all references to anything like ‘religion’, to cults or practices, in the imaginary world. For the religious element is absorbed into the story and the symbolism.” - Toilkein's letter to his friend Robert Murray, S.J.

>tfw non-believer who shitposts about christianity
>tfw somehow still drawn to it and kind of feel like I want to be "saved" despite not believing

weird feel

>>13138010
Convert

>>13137988
>Claiming it's a retelling of the Bible in anyway is extremely disingenuous
Not really. It's basically the Kalevala mixed with the New Testament.

>>13138007
I'm not asking about Christian symbolism or Christian philosophy in the Lord of the Rings. You said the Lord of the Rings is a RETELLING of the bible and I asked how it is retelling the all stories, histories, and letters that make up the bible. Where do I find a letter to the Corinthians in the Lord of the Rings?

>>13138055
What a dumb reply, he literally explained to you how Frodo's quest retells Jesus' passion. It doesn't matter if there's no LOTR equivalent of Paul writing to such and such congregations, don't be autistic.

>>13138074
It's not a retelling if there are merely allusions to another story.

>>13138097
They're not allusions, they're the core of the story, read Tolkien's quote in his post.

>>13136052
anyone?

>>13138112
He told them to buy swords to make a point about nonviolence later in the chapter.

>>13138103
Christianity can be the core of the Lord of the Rings but it still amounts to an allusion to Christianity because a retelling is essentially a remake. The Lord of the Rings is not a remake of the bible no matter how Christian it is. We're never going to read the Lord of the Rings at mass.

>>13138139
I don't think you understand what allusion or retelling mean.

>>13138160
Yeah sure man, I'm the being sloppy with language and not you.

>>13138170
Go look for the definitions if you don't believe me then.

>>13138112
It was to warn of the coming spiritual battle. He was speaking metaphorically of course, but some of the disciples took his words literally. Like anon said, Christ will clarify it later when He rebukes Peter for defending him with a sword. "It is enough" is an expression of frustration.

>>13138287
>the coming spiritual battle

should I get a machete?

>>13138309
>Finally, be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power. Put on the full armor of God, so that you can take your stand against the devil’s schemes. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand. Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place, and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace. In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God. And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the Lord’s people.
Ephesians 6:10-18

>>13126590
Why do Noscotsmen like you think that Christians don’t like to use 4chan for entertainment and leads for further learning. Religion is rebellion against our secular overlords so naturally all Christians would seem like that to you. Even priests complain about today’s sinfulness in their sermons. But maybe you’re the type who believes all the Christian priests and preachers are insincere period.

>>13137968
*Word of life, word of lives would be Verbo Vitarum

>>13138404
>Religion is rebellion against our secular overlords
They must be shaking in their boots

>>13137119
Who is St. Thomas of Aquinas

>>13138015
i don't have faith tho

>>13138404
>Religion is rebellion against our secular overlords
Kek as if

>>13138810
Who do you think I'm talking about, retard?

Can I low-key skip the old testament?

>>13139204
Why would you want to? It contains some of the best stories and you're not going to make much sense of the New Testament without the context of the Old. Ignoring the Old Testament is how people become protestants.

>>13126136
What are Catholics' look on logic and rationality?

I am currently in a church were logic and rationality is considered very bad for your faith. You will never find God and live a perfect life if you seek God through logic and rationality is what's preached. I really don't agree with this, and is probably why I will be leaving soon.

What do cathobros think about this? From what I've seen, lots of philosophers, both Catholics and other use exactly logic to justify the existence of God.

>>13139244
http://w2.vatican.va/content/john-paul-ii/en/encyclicals/documents/hf_jp-ii_enc_14091998_fides-et-ratio.html

>>13139295
Thanks, I don't have the time to read all of that now, but I have saved it. Do you mind giving a TLDR?

>>13139306
Just read the wiki entry for fides et ratio

>>13139244
Real reason and real faith are never incompatible with one another. Read Aquinas

>>13139451
Thankya

Aside from the Bible, what advice would you give to a curious agnostic? Literature-wise or otherwise

>>13139473
If you're looking for reasons to believe in God then the bible isn't going to be much help anyway because none of the books in the bible are trying to make that argument. Revelation presupposes the existence of God. Check out Edward Feser.

>>13133082

>>13139902
I love that picture of laughing Jesus. I use it as a bookmark.

>O Sing unto the LORD a new song; for he hath done marvellous things...[Ps. 98:1]

>And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son...[Jn 14:13]

From the readings today, Christ has taught us this new song. It is to pray in his name now that he has returned to the Father in his glorified humanity. In this new covenant the certitude that our petitions will be heard is founded on the prayer of Jesus. Make loud noises and rejoice and sing praise. May peace and many blessings be with you, anons~.

>>13138917
How did St. Thomas make the Church "lose clientele?"

>>13140344
Humanism, the Reformation, and the modern secular (scientific) paradigm were all born from scholasticism.

>>13140469
What? I thought it was nominalism, the reaction to scholasticism.

>>13140482
>nominalism, the reaction to scholasticism
Lol, the scholastics developed nominalism themselves.

>>13140469
?

>>13140525
Yes?

>>13140469
The germs of the modern world were born from Duns Scotus and Ockham's mistakes, not Aquinas.

How can I reconcile my faith in catholicism with videogames and anime?

>>13140545
>mistakes
We will be forever thankful for their mistakes.
>Aquinas
Natural theology was the beginning of the end for the church.

why do christians voluntarily choose to worship a jewish volcano demon who forced one of his followers to lay in the mud for over a year and eat bread cooked over cow shit? And by the way, the only reason the supreme lord and creator of the universe made him use cow shit is because his follower bargained god down from making him cook his bread over burning human shit. Why was Ezekiel able to haggle with the unchangeable master of everything? Why would a loving god force one of his followers to basically eat literal shit? You can't even find satanist or demonic magic rituals that are that debased.

Ezekiel 4:9-16 https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Ezekiel-Chapter-4/

Would you eat the shit bread, catholics? Answer honestly. Would you eat shit bread if you felt that god told you to do it?

>>13140746
If you want to go on like that you should at least use the binding of Isaac as an example or something. I would without a doubt eat shit bread if I knew it to be God's will. That is EZ mode.

>>13140770
I appreciate your honesty. Please donate to Israel, g-d's chosen people need your help.

>>13140770
I used to think the same until I realized I can't possibly know if it's really God's will or just some demon playing with my head.

>>13140822
I was assuming that I knew for sure. Practically speaking, yes. It's a sticky wicket no doubt.

>>13138112
It was actually just to fulfill a prophecy.

>35 And he said to them, “When I sent you out with no moneybag or knapsack or sandals, did you lack anything?” They said, “Nothing.” 36 He said to them, “But now let the one who has a moneybag take it, and likewise a knapsack. And let the one who has no sword sell his cloak and buy one. 37 For I tell you that this Scripture must be fulfilled in me: ‘And he was numbered with the transgressors.’ For what is written about me has its fulfillment.” 38 And they said, “Look, Lord, here are two swords.” And he said to them, “It is enough.”

He isn't speaking metaphorically, he's talking about the actual swords that disciples actually had. He doesn't want them to use them for "battle" though, they should just have them so the prophecy is fulfilled. If he actually wanted them to use them for "battle" then 2 swords wouldn't have been enough.

>>13135579
Jordan Peterson recently did an interview with Bishop Robert Barron which I don't think has been posted yet. Bishop Barron wrote an introductory book titled "Catholicism: A Journey to the Heart of the Faith" which I would highly recommend. He uses art, architecture, and literature as well as philosophy and theology to present the elements of Catholicism, such as the sacraments, Mary, the saints, and of course Christ.

The Gospels are fundamental for a clear picture of Christ, but a study bible helps too imho...especially for Catholicism. The Ignatius Catholic Study Bible: New Testament is common and efficacious. It will link the NT with the OT to show a bit of how salvation history unfolded and how Christ fulfills the promise of the prophesied Messiah. It will also explain how Scripture relates to the sacraments and the Church in general.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church is the common exposition on doctrine. It's a summary of what all Catholics believe, as Catholicism does not leave interpretation up to the individual. It will explain how and why Catholics come to believe what they do as well and it does it rather beautifully desu.

The Catholic corpus is huge and dividing it into 'eras' would be a stretch. The Faith doesn't change, but it grows. Catholicism doesn't throw anything away either and if something new is weaved into its fabric it happens very gradually. There are no "revolutions" or "movements" or "schools" in the Faith. That belongs to Protestants. There is however an Apostolic Age, a Patristic Age, a Medieval/Renaissance Age, a Reformation Age, and a Modern Age I suppose. These are historical more than anything though.

I’ve been realizing over the years that I fear God more than I love him.

>>13135851
ive struggled with this myself. I recently came back into the Church and cant really pin down why that was, it was so sudden and so forceful that i havent really had a chance to reflect on how it came to be, everybody close to me thinks its strange to say the least, like a passing fad, a crisis of youth?
But anyways, what ive come up with is that i believe Jesus Christ was real and i believe in the authenticity of relics like the shroud of turin and the mantle of our lady of guadalupe and apparitions like Fatima.
But even then i look for something better because its not myself i have to convince but the people around me that i care about who are atheists for all intents and purposes.

>>13139902
>No arguments from scripture or the ecumenical counsels
Truly Dosto was right with his hate about the Catholics

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBOd2tXFObw
thoughts on this?

>>13142568
I'm not going to watch the whole but right at the beginning he already made a crucial mistake in characterizing the Magisterium as something separate from Tradition. I stopped the video at this point so maybe I'm wrong to assume that he's going to argue in a circle or assume that the Magisterium is separate from Tradition in a effort to prove that the Magisterium isn't traditional. I'll watch a bit later when I have time.

>>13126136
how do you resolve being a christian with being a chantard?

>>13142668
What is the contradiction?

>>13142659
if i forgot to visit this thread go to /christian/ at 8ch and find the thread with the youtube video in the op

>>13142691
What?

>>13142693
there's a similar thread there to what im asking but no answer so far

Could you Catholics explain the deal with your prayers? As a someone who grew up protestant, the whole prayer thing is just asking God for something and thanking him etc. Forgive me if I am wrong, but is it so that you have pre-written prayers? Like an already made prayer? Do you also pray the way protestants does, or is this the only way? Where in the Bible does it say that this should be a way of praying?

Thanks.

>>13142849
You can pray any way you want, really. I think most of the written down or formulaic prayers are largely a product of the material circumstances of early Christians. These written prayers like the Our Father (Matthew 6:9) are mostly derived from scripture and taken as a whole, they tell the story of Christianity. If you look at the Rosary you can see that it's really the story of Jesus. This was how early Christians were taught because Bibles were difficult to get your hands on.

We carry on the tradition but it's not something you have to take part it.

>>13142849
uh bro the hail mary is a prayer. the our father is a prayer. the apostles creed is a prayer.

do you not have these? i wouldn't be surprised.

What is it with all these retarded tripfags lately?

>>13143163
uh bro i'm seriously asking. anon says he's protestant but doesn't know about form prayers that have existed for a thousand years before the reformation. if he doesn't know about them, then whichever churches he has been attending are literally satanic and treating jesus like a genie

>>13143143
Never heard anyone in my church use those, but looking them up in the Bible I can see that you are correct.

>>13143175
How does not knowing them/using them make the church satanic. Unironically curious.

What's the Catholic response to Stirner, Nietzsche, Evola and people of their type with regards to morality? Nowadays it seems people no longer try to justify a moral usurpation, but don't even in care in the first place since they claim there is no such thing.

>>13143197
>What's the Catholic response to Stirner, Nietzsche, Evola and people of their type with regards to morality?
No u

>>13143208
Thanks for bumping the thread

>>13143185
uh bro i wasnt trying to judge you. just the "churches" that cut out all the theology that they are supposedly built on. i say they are satanic because in stripping down the parts of the faith they didn't understand, they are now leading people away from understanding Christ, which is necessary for salvation. no one goes to the father except by him.

>>13142849
I think the prewritten stuff is used as sort of Mantra

>>13143241
uh bro unequivocal no. how did you get that idea.

>>13143215
You're welcome fren

>>13143243
I think mostly about the rosary,it's pretty evident, isn't it? And I don't even think it's a bad thing

>>13143232
I've been praying to so many saints, angels, and whatever since I became Catholic that I forgot who this Christ dude was.

>>13143306
kek

>>13143306
uh bro God is the only being worthy of worship. saints and angels and them are intercessors. you pray to them to ask them to intercede on your behalf. before you go knocking on the concept of saints, recognize that the entire purpose of the Church is to produce saints. read the new testament. it is expressly stated that is the goal.

>>13143279
uh bro the rosary is interesting. reading a book right now about its history. it didn't just come into being the way it is, and the purpose was never to enter a trance or "no-mind" state like with a mantra. the beads are a counter, and an aid in contemplating the mysteries.

>>13143197
I struggle with Nietzsche daily, he’s honestly the greatest daily challenge to my worldview. I don’t know what the official Church position is, but I know he’s highly respected by many Catholic intellectuals and writers who came after him. The alternative he posits seems so “natural,” all you have to do to accept is forget about Revelation for a moment, and at times of wavering faith (which every Christian has), his worldview seems to me like the inevitably correct one. This is compounded by my fascination with European aristocracy, high art, the Graeco-Roman world and all the other “rival goods” that Nietzsche, paricularly the late Nietzsche seems to champion.

I have a hard time taking Stirner very seriously, and Evola is too esoteric for me.

uh bro i should add between server crashes and recommend unto thee Father Calloway's Champions of the Rosary and also The Secret of the Rosary by St. Louis de Montfort. First is a history. second is a very short and comprehensive guide book. if you don't know what i meant by mysteries, or understand how the beads are used to count decades, or what a decade is, i highly recommend it.

>>13143330
I actually don't see a Mantra as an aid to get to a no-mind state, but to get to a state of highest concentration by cancelling out any unnecessary thought. Probably there is a lot of misunderstanding what a Mantra can do (talking about Zen meditation here).

>>13143232
>>13143243
>>13143330
>>13143348
>uh bro
why do you open every post with that line?

>>13143359
uh bro don't be weird

Just wanted to stop in and say I love you guys.

>>13143330
>believing in omniscient, omnipresent god
>still thinking you need random people to "intercede" on your behalf
The New Testament only tells us to pray "for" each other, never "to."

>>13143348
>>13143364
>>13143330
>>13143243
>>13143232
>>13143175
>>13143143
>If I use a trip I'm gonna be so cool!!!!

>>13143374
uh bro why don't you get yourself some middle knowledge. saints are not "us." and there is plenty of textual evidence for holding up martyrs and blessed and saints as praiseworthy and models of devotion to Christ, which is why they are raised as examples. you are praying they intercede on your behalf. you are not praying TO them. you are asking them for help, ideally because you identify with their story or try to live as they did. they are not demigods, they're adoring the throne of God in his kingdom just like you are. think of it like the fellowship you share with your mortal friends. you don't pray to your friend. you pray with them.

>>13143385
uh bro please don't be weird this trip is older than you and im using it to field questions on this topic ONLY.

>>13143400
Uh, bro, all these Catholics are praying TO saints and God doesn't need middlemen to hear your prayers.

>>13143385
This. It's fucking annoying, you can tell he's trying to be "that quirky hip guy who'd always say 'uh bro' haha"

>>13143400
And they're humans just like you and me, no matter how blessed or praiseworthy. Praying and bowing to statues of other humans like Catholics do is idolatry.

>>13143429
uh bro did you not listen. if you're kneeling with a saint its because you are kneeling with them before God. you're not kneeling or praying to the person. you're praying to God with your friend who is already in his kingdom.

>>13143435
Sounds like a shitty excuse to be an idolatrous heathen.

>>13143424
It really is some Reddit shit. Isn't it bannable? It's practically avatarfagging.

>>13143445
Protestants can't understand this concept since there wouldn't even be any people holy enough to be saints in the protestant "religion" anyways.

>>13143445
uh bro don't you pray for your friend when they ask you to? don't you pray for the Pope's intentions? don't you ask people to pray with you, and sometimes for you? these are intercessory actions. would you say your friend is an idol? or do you become an idol? no you don't. how does lit remember to breathe i swear

>>13143451
>I-it's just dulia bro, I-I swear to goddess Mary

>>13142849
We have to learn to pray: as it were learning this art ever anew from the lips of the Divine Master himself, like the first disciples: 'Lord, teach us to pray!' - JPII

Formal and vocal prayers have plenty of uses:
>as channels for communal and universal worship (Mass)
Catholic means universal after all. I know the same prayers as my bros in Borneo and Finland. What could be more pleasing to God than to hear his choirs send up their praise in harmony?

>as an aid to meditation (silent prayer) and contemplation (wordless prayer)
The Rosary is a most beautiful unity of all three of these expressions of prayer. If our thoughts begin to stray, we can always return our focus to the words which themselves all point to God.

>as a catechetical tool to help teach and clarify the faith (Apostle's Creed)
I find the Apostle's Creed to be an effective way of recollecting all that I believe, which is also all that We believe. I arm myself with it every day upon waking up.

And so on and so on. It's all designed to help us grow, as we are truly spiritual cripples, and beautiful prayers are our crutches to help us walk. We need both informal and formal prayer, active and receptive prayer, private and public prayer, vocal and silent prayer. But the most important thing about prayer is not how we do it but that we do it. The single most important answer to the question "How to pray?" is: "Begin".

>>13143400
>>13143435
the absolute state of coping Catholics.

>>13143455
I don't bow to statues of dead people or ask them for favors, no matter how virtuous they were in life. The bible is very clear on this subject.

>>13143458
>>13143461
Always funny to see Protties invade the Catholic threads since no one wants to discuss Pr*testantism with them. I wonder why hehe

>>13143469
>I wonder why hehe
Because you need Jesus

>>13143469
while praying you could never involve a saint in any way, ever again, and still be completely in tune to the catholic tradition. yet the catholic powers that be realize that there are benefits to having an unofficial pantheon.

This is honestly no better than the shitty console war threads on /v/.
We are all brothers in Christ at the end of the day.

>>13143523
t. Boomer that fails to see the irreconcilable difference and just wants to be sentimental

>>13143523
so are Mormons, amirite

>>13139902
Let me add to this the story of the Catalan Company
>1303
>be bunch of veterans from the war of the sicilian vespers
>get hired by the byzantine emperor to fight the ottomen
>proceed to kick turk ass for two years

>1305
>strong catalan bulls bully puny greeks
>greeks get tired of being told what to do
>emperor gets tired of paying you
>emperor betrays company and stabs roger de la flor in the back
>greek civilians attack unarmed catalans
>company chimps out, muders greeks left and right
>catalans kick the emperors ass with 3 to 1 odds
>track down the mercenary tribe that killed leader, massacre them all
>chimp out all over over greece for years
>conquer athens and neopatras

>greeks so butthurt mount athos didn't allow catalans into the mountain until 2000

>>13143435

This is not even Polytheism but the abomination of Demigods, a whale carcass from the abyss of being itself.

>>13142849
The Lord's prayer is literally in the Bible and half of the Hail Mary is the Bible as well particularity in Luke's Gospel.

>>13144500
For some reason, only Matthew and Luke seem to care about Mary.
Mark, John, Paul, George and Ringo didn't think she was important apparently.

>>13144601
Well in John's Gospel she gets Jesus to perform his first public miracle at Cana even though he said he wasn't ready so there's that. I need to reread Matthew, I don't remember much other than the confrontation between Jesus and Satan which has always stuck with me.

>>13144631
Yeah, she's only there to ask him to make some wine. No virgin birth, immaculate conception, nothing.

>>13144652
>No virgin birth,
That's in Matthew and Luke. Anyways I can already tell by your snarky comment and choice of words that you're not really here to care or listen to what Catholics have to say; one of many prots and Orthodox coming to a "catholic" thread just to shit it all up. Have a nice day.

>>13144601
>>13144631
Also:
>When Jesus saw his mother, and the disciple whom he loved standing near, he said to his mother, “Woman, behold, your son!” Then he said to the disciple, “Behold, your mother!” And from that hour the disciple took her to his own home.

>>13144652
Indeed, Mary is not only present at the first miracle of the wedding at Cana, she requested it, and by faith was certain that he could do it. She sits by Christ and intercedes on our behalf and always points to Christ, telling us to "do whatever he tells us".

>>13144699
>That's in Matthew and Luke
But not in John, which is what we were talking about.
Maybe the author just had a better knowledge of Hebrew.

>>13144722
I know, I'm saying she's not anything special in that gospel.
Reading John leaves one thinking if Mary wasn't just a regular woman, who gave birth the regular way or something.

>>13144742
I think those two events are key stories, but I understand what you're saying. I am uneducated when it comes to textual criticism of the Bible, but I suppose it was not God's will that we have four Gospel accounts perfectly alike in content.

First, sorry for the mistakes, I'm a frog. I will respond to a public intellectual because he has declared that classical liberalism, on the ideological front, aims for the suppression of the quest of the salvation.

My rebuttal consists of 2 points (very briefly)

- at the roots of classical liberalism there are the thomists of the school of Salamanca. These works will 500 years after be taken into account by the Austrian economics

- many classical liberals (Locke, mille, constant, tockeville conceived liberty in a negative way (no unjust oppression; social pressure is not unjust.
In that space of liberty, man can conceive and pursue virtue

Thoughts?

I have loads of other ideas.

>>13144770
>>13144742
Well they were written for different audiences. It's why Mark is fast paced or action packed, it's because that's what Romans responded to in their literature. Matthew was for a Jewish audience so it spends more time referencing the Old Testament. They each emphasize different things.

>>13144905
Matthew's problem was that he used the Septuagint and its mistranslation of Isaiah 7:14 to write his version of the nativity, the result of which being the cult of Mary.

By calling Mary "Woman" in John, Jesus establishes her as the new Eve.

>>13145005
You do not believe that the Gospel is inspired?

>>13145053
I did, before I started reading it.

>>13145038
Who's the new Adam?

>>13145114
That's funny. I didn't until I started reading it.

>>13145128
You should finish it then.

>>13145139
I will never be finished.

>>13145186
I'd recommend finishing at least Matthew, some crazy shit near the end.

>>13140548
Depends on what kind of content you consume of this mediums.

>>13145257
Can you provide examples within those mediums that would be "forbbidden" for catholics?

Is the doctrine of a separate eternal soul anywhere in the bible?

>>13132196
He verges on pan(en)theism because he always presents matters from the view point of the saint in perfect prayer who is united with God. So, the mystic's world is in God. He hasn't been labeled a heretic, though, the Vatican just condemned some 30 or so out of context sentences of his, and he retracted them. Also, he's based as fuck.

>>13145622
Not the poster you are replying to but there's nothing wrong with video games/anime per se, but you should use your best judgement. Frankly I think both are rather childish and certainly not something Jesus would bother with, but to each his own. It only becomes unequivocally sinful if they are addicting for you, cause you to lose time with family/faith/friends, or obviously, leading you towards lust/anger/sloth etc. If not, just consume in moderation and use your best discretion.
That being said, I still think they are just things to be overcome. I don't watch anime or play video games much and I am much happier than when I once did more.

>>13145841
I understand your opinion, and I honestly can't counter it when it comes to videogames, since almost all of them are pure entertainment. But manga/anime can be a medium in which one can express art. Of course it hasn't been explored much, but we have some examples of mangas/animes that have gone in that path.

And I also agree with your opinion on the sinful nature of those mediums. My doubt, on the other hand, is: Some anime/manga that are created with a sinful purpose in mind such as Hentain, Harem, Lolicons etc are sinful no matter how you look at them, but what about animes/mangas that haven't been created with that sole purpose but still contains some elements that could be considered sinful? For example, Berserk is a fantasy manga with a very good story but with some sex and needlessly violent scenes, would it be sinful to read it even though that's not the main point of the manga? Would it be OK if I'm reading it for the good parts it have?

>>13145126
Eve took the fruit off the tree and brought sin into the world. Mary put the fruit of her womb back onto the tree and allowed for salvation from sin.

I'll let you take a punt who the new man is.

>>13132528
>I get the feeling that the only way I'm going to achieve peace is through these communities even if I don't believe in them
Brother, right now you have FAITH that the love of community and family are valuable in themselves. Don't be timid in having this be your excuse to join a church. You may not have faith in God Himself yet, but if you desire to better the state of His creation, this comes from something Good. Pursue this Good and contemplate it without yet worrying about the existence of God as you believe you understand Him. He will not mind if you try out belief in Him as a way to ballast your commitment to being part of a blessed community. But, when you are TRULY willing to follow the path of spreading love and helping others, then there will be no distinction between doing Good and loving God.

>>13145874
Depends mainly on your good judgement. I do agree that there are some good anime. I watched Lain recently, and while it wasn't some masterpiece of literature, it was at least thought provoking. With regards the possible sinful nature of certain anime/manga, I think some theologians would say the circumstances don't really matter and that what is sinful is sinful no matter the context. However, I don't think manga that is violent or sexual is inherently sinful since there are plenty of novels/epic poems that have been historically praised by the Church yet still have such elements. Those are frankly a part of life and as long as it isn't glorified or portrayed as an end in of itself, I think you are fine. Of course, it is always good to examine your conscious and the thoughts of your mind to determine whether your mind feels edified or at least in good spirits after consuming such works, or it has brought you down. This goes for both morality and simply being joyful/satisfied as well.

>>13146076
>>13145874
Also, it's possible this image might be of some use to you. A lot of these are fairly entry level though and I suspect you might be familiar with many of them.

>>13145874
reading or watching Berserker harms another human being somehow?? . If not.. is not sinful.

>>13146216
This is not Christian teaching, friendo.