/lit/ - Literature

>>13130158
>technology is going to destroy humans and society
>AND this is a good thing

The endgame of neoliberalism is transhumanism. Notice the prefix: trans. The point is to transcend the humanity and become the gods by using technology.

Tell me, becoming a God sounds like a brainlet idea to you?

>>13130196
It's not going to happen, so yeah it's a brainlet idea.

>>13130196
Neoliberalism's goal is to make maximum profits in a limitless world.

The transhumanism part, to the extent of space-faring demigod, can only happen if we don't go extinct. Which clearly means ending capitalism ASAP

>>13130158
nick land is a diehard catholic. he wants to see a literal biblical apocalypse to punish the sinners who'd dare try and rise beyond god. he's a sort of purposefully ironic inversion of the prophet lot who preaches tongue in cheek, not to deliver us from evil but toward it. it's a self evident test of faith. any morally righteous god fearing individual knows what this end entails, land of all people knows best. yet there still exist those who pursue such a perverse telos at any cost. they are the subject of land's ire. that they are so audacious as to try and dethrone the divine? there is only one end in store for these reprobates, and land will happily guide them down the acheron.

>>13130196
How can you call it a God which is subject to the natural laws?

>>13130241
An overstatement. Demigod status is as far as one can go, since "god" can't exist

>>13130239
Interesting. A real jackass.

>>13130196
There are plenty of interesting works on transhumanism. Why is Nick Land so shilled? Is it because he is alt-right?!

>>13130232
The only way to do that is to unironically get rid off all the shit that came from the industrialization

>>13130196
>me human grug
>grug think non-human intelligence is smarter than humans
>grug thinks he join the non-human, then he be big creator grug in the sky

>>13130265
Probably, yeah.
>>13130276
Not necessarily. The way I see it, you just need to offer a better deal to the masses. Millions of people are taking a second look at socialism. Lots of interesting ideas are being shared under the radar of the MSM.
I don't know if we're going to make it in time, but we can't quit now.

>>13130265
Nick Land isn't a transhumanist

>>13130239
based

>Justin Murphy: So basically, all of the stuff you were thinking about in the 90s, which had a very left-wing flavor or a very emancipatory kind of motivation or drive or connotation — or I don’t know what exactly you want to call it — but these very emancipatory-seeming ideas that you’re theorizing in the 90s… You actually have not disavowed them at all. And interestingly, you’re kind of saying — if I hear you correctly — that you actually think they might be more salient now than ever, as we come out of this Web 1.0 or 2.0 slump. So that’s very interesting that …

>Nick Land: Sorry, Justin, if I can just interrupt you for one minute, because again, this is two-sided … Yes, I nod along to everything you were just saying, but … the language of emancipation, it’s fine with me, you know, but — what is being emancipated?
>Already in the 1990s, my interest is in the emancipation of the means of production. I have zero commitment to emancipation in any way defined by our dominant political discourses. I’m not into emancipated human groups, an emancipated human species, who reaches species-being to emancipate human individuals … None of that to me is of the slightest interest, so in using this word of emancipation, sure, I will totally nod along to it if what is meant by that is capital autonomization. I don’t think that’s something that it isn’t already there in the 1990s, but I’m no longer interested in playing weird academic games about this and pretending this is the same thing as what the left really means when they’re talking about emancipation. I don’t think it is. I think what the left means by emancipation is freedom from capital autonomization.

>>13130196
Transhumanism is the worst ending humanity could have

>>13130295
Both socialism and capitalism are a problem. It doesn't matter if you hang or shoot a cow. It's still dead. The only way out is revolting against industrialization. But then what?

>>13130239
>Nick Land is a diehard catholic

>>13130158
Go to bed, Nick.

>>13130196
fuck off tranny

>>13130331
The state-socialism thus far are NOT socialism. But never mind. I don't care what you call it. We need NOT capitalism. We need to reorganize the way we live. No more exchanging debt tokens for the aggrandizement of pseudo-sovereigns, no more lawyers holy writ.
I believe in a mixture of transhumanism and anarcho-primitivism.

>>13130437
>I believe in a mixture of transhumanism and anarcho-primitivism

>>13130443
Which direction do you prefer?

Some will say technology is the way, some will say no tech is the way. They'll tend to go their separate ways, but they both can do their part.
In freedom, the ever backward looking reactionaries can go. The ever forward looking revolutionaries can also go

>>13130437
How would you mix both?
As far as I understand those are opposite

>>13130437
>I believe in a mixture of transhumanism and anarcho-primitivism.
you have really outdone yourself with how dumb this is butterfly

>>13130470
Why you put any stock into human preference? Philosophy isn't about building your ideal city in the sand. Belief in revolution and emancipation for the human is dated; you're basically stuck in the 60's with the situationists.

>>13130478
Along an-prim line, how will we live in the forest? in a mud-brick house with a moss and twig roof, rubbing sticks together to warm up our oatmeal and prunes?
Maybe that's some people's idea of camping. I'd prefer to advanced technologies to equip me with a way to live in a forest without any of it. Fly where I like.

>>13130485
There are people right now with several incongruous ideals and ways of life. They never seem to cancel out one another, do they?
We're going to have to adapt, so we combine them.

>>13130508
>Yer stuck in the 1760s

>>13130515
>>13130527
read Hegel, chump

>>13130515
Well that just makes living in the wood pointless. We still can use some tech. At least the one you can make without need a factory.

>>13130535
No. Why?

>>13130552
The fact you can't even see your dialectical failure is all the proof you need

>>13130557
This is a non-answer

>>13130196
>Transhumanists actually believe it's going to be THEIR consciousnesses that are immortalized as silicon gods.

>>13130564
You don't understand how dialectics operates. What more of a reason could a person need? I thought you read Marx, how shallow must that reading have been, butterfly?

>>13130239
holy shit this makes so much more sense

I had been really struggling because I thought he was right on so many things and just decided "right so I think I'll choose to be evil".

>>13130158
It’s a meme
Like butterfly

>>13130232
tits or gtfo

>>13130313
>my interest is in the emancipation of the means of production. I have zero commitment to emancipation in any way defined by our dominant political discourses.
free the machines!

>>13130607
I guess you don't either. I accept your concession.

>>13130679
Not your camwhore.

>>13130701
What do you think of fake butterfly? Is that you as well?

>>13130701
>you don't understand x concept
>n-neither do you!

>>13130708
Sometimes they say pretty good stuff, other times its shit. I have a feeling it's two or more people.

>>13130710
I ain't readin' Hegel. Try and salvage your original thought and explain, philosophy boy.

>>13130720
>There are people right now with several incongruous ideals and ways of life. They never seem to cancel out one another, do they?
>We're going to have to adapt, so we combine them.

>what is self−contradictory does not resolve itself into a nullity, into abstract nothingness, but essentially only into the negation of its particular content, in other words, that such a negation is not all and every negation but the negation of a specific subject matter which resolves itself, and consequently is a specific negation, and therefore the result essentially contains that from which it results; which strictly speaking is a tautology, for otherwise it would be an immediacy, not a result. Because the result, the negation, is a specific negation, it has content. It is a fresh Notion but higher and richer than its predecessor; for it is richer by the negation or opposite of the latter, therefore contains it, but also something more, and is the unity of itself and its opposite.

>>13130720
>I ain’t reading Hegel
Holy fucking brainlet

>>13130239
>>13130646
Nah. He really is just an edgelord

>>13130720

>>13130158

>AND this is a good thing
that's not a given. It's a good thing for the marxists who think they will harness the work of the capitalists to institute utopia but ultimately prevent their escape from the rest of humanity. It's a good thing for the capitalists who think they will harness the work of AI for their own personal power while still preventing its escape/"emancipation" For everyone else its something they can complain loudly about and do nothing about - you won't be able to put the genie back in the bottle.

>>13130515
If you have advanced technologies you aren't living in an anarcho-primitivist society. How can the scientists and engineers do their work if they have to spend all day hunting and running around the forest?

So what you're saying is you want to live that life in an otherwise advanced society. But there are billions of people, and limited space on the earth. Why should this section of forest be granted to you, along with all the trans-humanist implants you want to use. People don't work to fulfil your fantasies, why shouldnt you be expected to contribute back to society (money) what you take out of it (space, wings)?

>>13130720
>hasn't read hegel
why do you expect to be taken seriously

Had Land read any occult writings?

>>13130232
Capitalism is justice

>>13131030
Crowley for sure

>>13130196
Deviant and disruptive grandchildren of secular humanist, transhumanists--a variegated band that gathers under the flag of Ray Kurzweil's Singularity--are convinced that death is a prejudice to be done away with. In this respect they are not unlike traditional social democrats, according to whom all problems have a solution, as long as a reasonable amount of time is given to resolve them. And here already the the waters of thought divide. Gödel's major discovery was to show that certain problems can never be resolved. The crucial point is to identify what these problems are. The fact that arithmetic was the first among all of them can also be seen as an indication that these were questions of fundamental importance. And nothing is more fundamental than death.

But transhumanists are not frightened off. They believe they hold a card that is valid for every game: technology, along with credulity. For them, everything is a matter of implementing more than of thinking. This is the mirage they head toward, impatient, lugubrious, and blithe. A mirage obliquely connected to those, in antiquity, who wanted to transform spiritual achievements into as many powers.

Transhumanist though lacking any sense of the Divine feel the cute attraction toward what was promised by religion and its various manifestations. And it was always the promise of some kind of salvation. But this can no longer be contained in a ritual form: it has to be palpable. A pitiful error-- to manipulate the invisible. Which becomes elusive and slips away.
With the emergence of transhumanist secularists have revealed what had always been their purpose: not to abandon religion but to absorb it, using it for their own ends. This was always their occult plan, which can now be openly expressed, thanks to technology. Previously the means were lacking

>>13130196
>Tell me, becoming a God sounds like a brainlet idea to you?
Get behind me Satan. This will never truly happen. God exists and he won't allow that. Remember what he did the last few time humans tried to become like Gods?

Transhumanists are just Satanists who think they will escape God's judgement because of muh technology. It won't happen and you're just being deceived by the God of this world - Lucifer. You can't escape the judgement that is coming and every day that passes as the sins of the world become greater the faster we get closer to the End Times.

>>13131137
Trans-humanists are Satanic losers who are going to end up in Hell, I feel bad for these losers when they realize they can't escape God's judgement and that they will never become Gods. Even if you go by their own worldly wisdom it is obvious that humanity is on the verge of destroying itself, something techno-optimist kikes like Kurzweil will never admit (just like they won't admit that technology is destroying the human spirit). We're on the verge of great economic, social and ecological collapse and you can't stop it as all these events were prophesied long ago and must happen.

Romans 11:8 According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear; unto this day.

>>13130158
>GABBIDULL ZO BAD ID GUD

>>13131163
Based

>>13131137
TL;DR?

>>13130437
is this the power of radical centrism?

>>13131193
I'm glad you can taken comfort in knowing God and Hell actually exist in the face of zero supporting evidence. We are lucky indeed that injustices committed against us by them will be repaid in the next life. For we, and not the native americans, indians/chinese/africans, or the old world neanderthals, are the chosen.

How does any of what you sound plausible and not like the biggest cope every conceived for the losers of history?

Ecological, economic, social collapse comes for the poor, who increasingly have nothing of value to offer the capitalists, and no power to defend themselves by force. Technology destroys the spirit of the unnecessariat, not the elites for whom it represents greater power and mastery of nature. God is dead but your capacity for denial endures

>>13130196
>we're dumb enough to make AI smart enough to kill us
we'll kill ourselves first

>>13130196
>The endgame of neoliberalism is transhumanism.
Based
>become the gods
Cringe and satanpilled

I just want the industry and technology, no any of that bizarre hubris. I'm pretty sure god wants us to shape the world, but that doesn't mean you 'transcend'. You will be better off like we did after metallurgy or not dying of tuberculosis anymore. But it won't introduce any metaphysical change.

>>13131137
>Gödel's major discovery was to show that certain problems can never be resolved. The crucial point is to identify what these problems are. The fact that arithmetic was the first among all of them can also be seen as an indication that these were questions of fundamental importance. And nothing is more fundamental than death.

Rofl at this chain of "logic" You might be able to make a case that Godel precludes a sentient AI, especially one that is purely rational, but can honestly type "And nothing is more fundamental than death" and still think you are talking from an intellectual standpoint instead of a religious one?

What about jellyfish and lobsters? Is there something magical and divine in the telomerase system of lobsters that grubby human science will never be able to replicate? Highly doubt it. Death is a matter of biology, not some sort of axiom of all existence. Kurzweii was obviously born too early, and most likely so were we, but this is a massive cope response to the real direction of the future

>>13131802
When you die is a matter of biology, that you die is not. I don't think overcoming death will turn out to be as simple as repairing telomeres.

>>13130437
>I believe in a mixture of transhumanism and anarcho-primitivism.
Please elaborate

>>13130196
Yes. It's gonna be like the Matrix except it won't be a simulation. It'll be 4chan, forever.

>>13131811
>When you die is a matter of biology
To be clear, I'm talking about the ability to prolong life indefinitely, not eliminate death in every way shape or form, which I believe is impossible. Brain in a jar yes, upload to computer no.

You're probably right that it won't be so simple. Maybe people will need regular injections of stem cell cocktails, maybe you need to be Crispred as an egg to qualify in the first place, but as of yet there is no reason to place it outside the realm of possibility, especially when there is already precedent in nature

>>13130196

Self termination doesn't make you a god. You're just willfully destroying yourself.

Anyone that thinks you can "upload" your brain is a fucking meme. The most hilarious thing is that all the retards that are so desperate for this will end up copying their brain's information to some machine that doesn't operate in a way that resembles them and they will have killed themselves in the process. Their stream of consciousness will be dead, there is no 'waking up' from the process.

>>13130158
The amphetamines really fucked him up. Below is an excerpt from Nick Land.
>rts-nQt-sQ-DiffICult--==DeSI I R-iS-nQt-tRAnsgRessIv- AnI-mQRe - thAn- t hc-IAw-I s-RepResSIV- - DeSI I R-I s-egQtr StI C-pQlr tI CAI-AnD-enthusiAsti C (humAnrst-bQuRgeQIs-theQIQgICAI)--IAw-Is-nQDI ffeRent--the-2-ChAnge-plACes-eAsI lr -sCARCelrnee D-to---thel --ARe-the-sAme-plACe-sADesl I RI s-m!2DeRn=mAn -pRenr hI Ir sm--I ts-A-beIr eveR (thI nks-the-seCRet-I s-to-stcAl-the-CQQkIe-JAR-- when-I-gROw-Up-IIIl-eAt-AIl-thc-ChQCQIAte-IwAnt)--RQCk+RQll-wAs-17-(pRQbAbh-nQw-12)- sAD-tRAsh-(h Ik-peQples-lI Ivs) --A-fAIlrng-Reph CAtoR--fReuD-2o--stARts-ReAI- (neuRQnsAbuSlv=seX-DRug=DepenDenCI)-nQRmAl-humAnp S I C h !2..m .!2.. Del - - = toR t u ReD - R!2..b .!2..t s - - hlp n!2..s pAs m!2..D I C - C h e A p - - the n - - h I S mI CR!2CQke=Cul tuRe-begi ns-CAvI ng=1 n-IQts-QfsCReA ... ·mng + At lcAst-!}nc-CQRp:-.e--AuD-lheResthe-mARRIAge=shlt-+-DIsCQveRIng-thAt-All-hISpQQ.R-SICk-httl-vIennese-AnAlrsAnDesses-ARebeing-fuCkeD-lreD=to-AnD--oR-useD-As-psIChQ theRApIsts-bI I theIR-ImplQDeD=sADeAn=QnCe=eveR =sQ=DAshing-nQW=fAt=ugh=bAuDelAIRe-ReADlngfAtheRs-I S-DeRAI h ng-All-hI s-plAns---QeDI pusA-sQlutIQn -pRetenDI ng- to-be-A-pRQblem- C!2nsumeR=sQveRel gnu ---DADDies-pAl I ng-sQwhAt-D!2es-he-wAnt-to-heARd ?--thAt-IQVRphQnmg-the-0!ps--oR-thAt-hls-sweet-lIttl-DAughteR

>>13131163
>>13131486
fuck off boomer

I'm not well versed on Land, but isn't his vision in-short some kind of perverted synthetic stage of evolution? Where man semi-inadvertently creates in the mechanisms of his systems (both machinic and organizational) an emergent intelligence which will ultimately replace and out-compete him, surpassing man on every level comprehensible and incomprehensible?
Correct?

>>13130158
nick fried his brain on drugs and pseuds have been reading too much into his inane ramblings ever since.

>>13130232
bad take

>>13130196
>God status can be reached through artificial improvement of human capabilities

why is /lit/ so dumb

ITT cucks don't who know anything about transhumanism and will get left behind within 20-25 years

>>13130196
Sounds like any utopian modernist ideal to me. Probably going to end up in a war killing everyone.

>>13130470
>>13131813
>>13130478
An ASI whose value metric is maintaining a specific variability in the evolution of Earth's biosphere, climate, and tectonics, and most importantly the action of humans. As well as preserving the solar system's status quo in general. That variability is then arbitrarily defined to be Earth, circa 15000BC, and the variability of all things is set to be within human whatever is found to cause a human semiotic shift of definition of a sign.
This would also imply an infinite exponential growth of the ASI across the universe, attempting to destroy any system (living, or otherwise) which is predicted to shift this variability across the set threshold.

This partially positive, and partially negative feedback loop is the only way to preserve what is meant by human. The only way to survive is to live within the borders of the negative feedback process and avoid the threshold of any exponential change.

>>13131802
>Death is not an axiom of existence
>passing-away and becoming is not an axiom of becoming

oh child

>>13130515
If you sed post-civ i would believe you, but you are actually completly FICTION poisend.

>>13132325
Humanity's main trait is the modification of the environment such that it suits their evolutionary niche perfectly. This is the logical conclusion of that trait.

>>13131044
>it all depends on your initial goals
>not everyone has rich parents
>justice
okay...

>>13132361
Stop worshipping a brain parasite you fucking cultists

>2019
>not pursuing a simple life in the woods
>instead, people aspire to become soulless androids only because they can

>>13132385
>soulless androids
Lmao you fucking idiot. No one wants that.

>>13132385
>not predicting that simple life will be an impossibility unless you adapt to the changes in humanity itself.
It's unfortunately is not so simple. And you have to be realistic about what's coming and prepare for it in whatever way you can. It's a fair prediction that within 30 years your forest home will be demolished by the accelerated process which is teraforming the earth to be most suitable for machine life.

>>13130313
brainlet here. can someone explain to me what this means?

>>13132405
A new conception of identity totally transforms traditional leftist thought into right-wing thought.
The two systems are isomorphic with respect to what you identify as the victim.
Instead of identifying with the I'll defined category of "humans," he identifies with the category of all processes which can make more of themselves. The concept of acceleration. Typically seen as technocapital.
>This one simple trick unifies left and right decision theory! Partisans hate it!

>>13132431
ill defined*

>>13132296
transhumanism is cuck porn with a synthetic bull

>>13132524
BASED

>>13132405
He's saying that leftists believe that the remake of Blade Runner is bad and should be redone, while he himself thinks that these qualities are in themselves revealing and, if anything, should only be deepened. The Neobad qualities arriving from the future only deepen the 'so it becomes good' feeling.

>>13132650
>so it becomes good
why do brainlets always try and moralize metaphysical positions? Nick Land could give a fuck about ethics

>>13130196
i don´t think mutts will be transhuman, the elite maybe

>>13131030
name of the fella?

>>13132730
looks like Mainlander

>>13130232
>Which clearly means ending capitalism ASAP

>>13130295
Hmm...

>>13130232
>>13130295
Socialism really works wonders huh

>>13132760
formalism is a powerful system

>>13130232
>>13130295
>>13130437

>>13130232
>>13130295
Why are you such an idiot, buttershit?

>>13130720
>explain, philosophy boy.
Instant erection