/lit/ - Literature

>>13128730
>kendrick lamar
gtfo

>>13128862
Thank you

>>13128730
Contemporary poetry is shit but rap artists are a different kind of shit.

>>13128862
he's not my favorite, but he still illustrates my point

>>13128730
>Am I the only one here who got into rap because contemporary poetry is so euphonically dismal? Rappers like Rakim, Ka, all the Wu-Tang guys, Action Bronson, Aesop Rock, Joey Badass, Vince Staples, Big Pun, Kendrick Lamar, J. Cole, Kool Keith, Kool G Rap, MF DOOM, and (dare I say it) Eminem are exponentially ahead of the poets of their times as far as craftsmanship.
grayons-tier post

>>13128882
>Dead in the middle of Little Italy, little did we know that we riddled a middle-man who didn't do diddly.
You have to admit that's fun as fuck. It feels great to say.

Life’s a bitch and then you die
That’s why we get high
Cuz you never know when you gonna go

>>13128730
Low effort bait

Stop giving this retard attention

>>13128972
I'm 100% sincere. Please show me some contemporary poetry on the level of Ka or Aesop Rockl.

>>13129009
>aesop rock
colorless green ideas sleep furiously

>>13128730


No way. Rap is journalism at best. And it’s not about being a human, it’s about being black, and cucked by materialism. None of these people are actually literate. If you actually stopped listening to the hypersonic hypnosis and just read the lyrics, it’s more shocking then it is deep. Yes there are moments of transcendence but they don’t exist on the page.

Poets don’t write to beats, their not the type to produce commercial music videos, and they certainly don’t give a fuck about fame or fortune. Rappers are not poets, and any rapper that says otherwise is not on their game. Perfect example is J Cole. He didn’t “get big” until he made that trap song, because that the game he’s in. I think it’s an insult to poets, and it’s not helpful to someone who wants to be a rapper.

If somebody wanted to be a *successful* poet I’d send them;
>Sappho, Rumi, Dante, Shakespeare, Holderlin, Poe, Rilke, Gibran, Whitman, Cohen, etc.

If someone wanted to be a *successful* rapper, is send them
>bone thugs, three 6, chief keef, lil wayne, etc

That would be justice. It would be injustice to try to conflate the two. The merits of the one do not complement the other.

>>13129027
dude, you just don't get it, bro

>>13128730
those names are so barbaric sounding,i don't believe this ethnic jazz became palatable because ''contemporary poetry is so euphonically dismal''

>>13129028
>completely ignores the deep sea of underground rap
The bigger the name in my OP, the worse they illustrate my point. I know this. But even they are more technically advanced than their poetic contemporaries. My point stands.

>>13128730
Im just astonished that you failed to mention Earl Sweatshirt. A great poet

>The holidays are part and parcel of the gross fraud, wrong, and inhumanity of slavery. They are professedly a custom established by the benevolence of the slaveholders; but I undertake to say, it is the result of selfishness, and one of the grossest frauds committed upon the down-trodden slave. They do not give the slaves this time because they would not like to have their work during its continuance, but because they know it would be unsafe to deprive them of it. This will be seen by the fact, that the slaveholders like to have their slaves spend those days just in such a manner as to make them as glad of their ending as of their beginning. Their object seems to be, to disgust their slaves with freedom, by plunging them into the lowest depths of dissipation. For instance, the slaveholders not only like to see the slave drink of his own accord, but will adopt various plans to make him drunk. One plan is, to make bets on their slaves, as to who can drink the most whisky without getting drunk; and in this way they succeed in getting whole multitudes to drink to excess. Thus, when the slave asks for virtuous freedom, the cunning slaveholder, knowing his ignorance, cheats him with a dose of vicious dissipation, artfully labelled with the name of liberty. The most of us used to drink it down, and the result was just what might be supposed: many of us were led to think that there was little to choose between liberty and slavery. We felt, and very properly too, that we had almost as well be slaves to man as to rum. So, when the holidays ended, we staggered up from the filth of our wallowing, took a long breath, and marched to the field, feeling, upon the whole, rather glad to go, from what our master had deceived us into a belief was freedom, back to the arms of slavery.

>>13129079
I like Earl, but in my mind he's sort of like an immature Ka. I don't think Earl would have much of a problem with this statement either.

>>13129080
dayum that's dark, source?

>>13129075
>>13129079

I’m sorry but a poets weapons are his words. He doesn’t need a fucking image, or a public persona, or bass snare hi hat and sample loop. I’m sure these people may actually write poetry, but don’t link me their fucking rap songs and call it poetry. That not poetry. Leonard Cohen and Bob Dylan are controversially considered poets, which is justified given that their platform is music, even though these guys are absolutely poets. It doesn’t matter. A real poet is just words. The words come at you, nothing but words. That’s the power of actual poetry. Admittedly there are absolutely horrendous poets and poems out there. But a good poem is like nothing else on this earth. I’d go so far as to say that a good poem would surpass a great piece of music. Hands down

>>13129127
You never read the Narrative of Fredrick Douglass?

>>13129156
No, I dont live in the US (and further try not to let myself be immersed too much in their far-reaching zone of cultural hegemony - listening to some of their discussions on race, identity and similars gives me feelings of dread) . I've merely heard his name before. Thank you for the source, though, seems interesting, I will look into it.

wake up
wake up
wake up
it's the 1st of tha month
get up
get up
get up

>>13128730
you don't even listen to good rap.... here's a few to get you started noob:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBwhKC2pvWg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdIzRK2AE_8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4V1MHZZP2E

>>13129239
here we go

>>13128730
/mu/ fag die please get the fuck off

>>13129208
Addendum: Here's the exact instance I heard Douglass' name for the first time: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KN-09cua_pA
(still a US cultural concoction, I know)

>>13129239
>wiggercore
>better than anyone in OP
good one
I unironically like RA though

>>13129239
Each of them would shoot you a few new assholes for disrespecting G Rap, Pun, Wu-Tang, Rakim, and probably DOOM

>the thread's just anti-rap shitposts without a single attempt to refute OP

Real G's move in silence like lasagna

>>13129302
Op didn’t post one poem, just said
>rap is poetry cuz I can’t find good poetry amirite hehe

There’s nothing to refute. It’s a confession it’s not an argument

pussy so good I suck on yo daddy’s dick

>>13129284
Jungle fever detected
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2RWQewaK0Q

>>13129331
Where does OP state that rap is poetry? Euphony isn't exclusive to poetry.

>>13129342
Not at all. Wiggerdom is more about being tryhard than being white.

>>13129353
Poetry is exclusively poetry, whether or not it is currently dominated by Starbucks writers.
Rap ≠ Poetry

>>13129373
Agreed. I never said it is. There is a meaningful distinction to be maintained between rap and poetry. It in no way follows that they are not all similar, or that poets can't learn from rappers or vice versa. I find contemporary poetry to be lacking in an area in which rap is bountiful. That's really all I'm saying. You all pulled this "rap is poetry" stuff straight out of your collective ass.

>>13129080
>>13129127
>>13129156
>>13129208
A most excellent book. One cannot read that work or Booker T. Washington's and think nothing has gone wrong with the modern African-American community. W.E.B Dubois is a likely monster of history.

>>13128730
whyteboi detected, step outside your suburb every once in a while
add biggie smalls to that list, he's a wordsmith and if you disagree you're wrong

>>13129028
Dont paint all artists with the same brush, you are very ignorant of the entire scene
I'm not reading your post past that point
Grow up fly over state white boi

>>13129027
isnt this from.a chomsky example demonstrating the the distributively hierarchical nature of syntactic structures or something?

>>13129487
And because I feel like being helpful I will leave you with one name
Da Great Deity Dan
Try apply any of your bullshit to his works. "Cucked by materialism", not in the slightest.
50 cent doesn't represent all rappers. Big and Rich don't represent all country singers. Like I said, grow the fuck up.

>>13129487
Bitch you don’t know ur tommy wright from ibsen

>>13129502
Da Great Deity Dah*
aka Da God Da Smoov

>>13129502
Who? Exactly. Rap is rap. And it doesn’t change if you post weird al’s rap record dork

>>13128730
LMAO
Good one.

>>13129504
Why I see so many people name dropping tha third these last few years
Tommy still a nigga though

>>13129395
It was implied by OPs position.

>anyone else listen to rap cuz poetry sucks nowadays

The answer is no, same reason I don’t eat desert because I ran out of shampoo

>>13129501
Yeah it's a quote that's supposed to exemplify a grammatically correct sentence with a nonsensical meaning. Which is what I think of Aesop Rock's lyrics.

>>13129509
>Read Shakespeare before thou dost judge the English Tragedie too soone
>Whomst? My Good Sirre, the Name hath never before reach'd my Eares. Wert he known to me, I might concede thy Pointe, but mine Ignorance doth put me in the Righte. English Tragedie, English Tragedie be. And I care not for some Court Jester's poetic Writ.

>Rappers I monkey flip em with the funky rhythm I be kicking
Musician, inflicting composition
Of pain, Scarface sniffing cocaine
Holding a M-16, with the pen I'm extreme, now
Bullet holes left in my peepholes
I'm suited up in street clothes
Hand me a nine and I'll defeat foes
Y'all know my steelo with or without the airplay
I keep some E&J, sitting bent up on the stairway
Or either on the corner betting Grants with celo champs
Laughing at base-heads, trying to sell some broken amps
G-Packs get off quick, forever niggas talk
Reminiscing about the last time the Task Force flipped
Yo they be running through my block shooting
Time to start a revolution, catch a body head for Houston
They caught us off guard, the Mac-10 was in the grass and
I ran like a cheetah with thoughts of an assassin
Pick the Mac up, told brothers, "Back up, " the Mac spit
Lead was hitting niggas one ran, I made him back flip
Heard a few chicks scream my arm shook, couldn't look
Gave another squeeze heard it click yo, my shit is stuck
It wouldn't shoot now I'm in danger
Pulled my shit back had three bullets caught up in the chamber
Now I'm runnin' to the building lobby
And it was filled with children probably couldn't see as high as I be
(So what you saying?) The game ain't the same
Got younger niggas pulling the triggers bringing fame to they name
And claim some corners, crews without guns are goners
In broad daylight, stickup kids, they run up on us
Fo'-fives and gauges, Macs in fact
Same niggas'll catch a back to back, snatching yo' cracks in black
There was a snitch on the block getting niggas knocked
So hold your stash until the coke price drop
I know this crackhead, who said she gotta smoke nice rock
And if it's good she'll bring ya customers in measuring pots, but yo
You gotta slide on a vacation
Inside information large niggas erasing they wives basin'
It drops deep as it does in my breath
I never sleep, 'cause sleep is the cousin of death
I lay puzzled as I back track to earlier times
Nothin's equivalent to the New York state of mind
post any contemporary poetry better than this, ill wait.

>>13129533
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npcGql9Ir6Y
what part of this is confusing to you anon

>>13129557
Wu tang is dope
Again tho
A lot of bigger babble and crime statistics

18% of the population, 87% of the crime. Now look over those lyrics and they will tell you why

An we are supposed to accept this “culture”. Fuck you nigger
And I (sorta) like rap music lol

>>13128862
>popular thing bad

18 and up board, son

>>13129557
capture you, lock you in my mansion
mahogany shelves 'n shit, the way we dancin'
I kidnapped you, look what you're strapped to
my elaborate device, you're handcuffed to it (uh)
you can't unscrew it, wood floorboards creakin'
that's how I know the intruders were sneakin'
they were caught in my trap, bear traps on the stairs, how cold is that? (uh)
they fell through a secret panel to the basement
where my man, baron von spranel, he plays with them for fun
until it's their life that is done (uh)
grab a pair of pliers, I stay laced with visions of fire
that's where you lay when you expire
curse you with voodoo, pull hairs from your noodle
put them in my stew, let that sit, ew
while I prepare the elixir, it's mixed here
one part toad's brain, the other tears of pain
boil for seven years, add an elephant ear (uh)
hey yo, you don't hear the lord of darkness spit often
once in a thousand years do I come out my coffin
you only thought that my sick flows would soften, but no
in my castle I was locked in, poppin' and lockin' to a hot violin
knowing that one day I'd break out
the dopest host to float a verse, I'm known to ghostride a hearse
Hmm, what's worse? battling me,
or being locked in a dungeon with no air to breathe
you better just flee, coming at me without daylight and a spike
is like akin to trying to part the red sea

>>13128730
>>13129028
some what. your too rigid in my opinion though. mcing still participates in the impulse to enact the impulse towards posey. Its a inherent predisposition towards performativity of language. I think you could make a case that rap, a certain element of it, is more poetic than written, ossified literate poetry on the page as it participates in the dynamism of autonomous oracular pronouncement based on organic creation, memorisation and recitation or/and improvisation. it seems to clearly participate in the classic oral traditionals of the the Greek bardic epics as well as, more directly, the African grieot tradition.

we should distinguish between commercial rap and the spirit of hip hop- for what of a better phrase. in its essence hip hop is reportage of the streets, the horizon of a certain expression of an particular episteme, conditioned by the historical, i would argue, contingent place of oppression experienced by negros, and articulating a certain defiance. compare for instance GMF's 'The Message' with the sugar hill gang's schizo hip hoppity thingo and you might detect a trace of what I'm trying to distinguish.

I think we can think the term rap, especially in figures like kungfu kenny and Eminem, the more capable articulate and aware mainstream rappers, as the conflict between the impulse towards nullifying hip hop by making it into pop as rap, and the impulse to keep it defiant and critical.

i think to say that something like immortal technique's dance with the devil for instance or you never know, dont participate in posey, obvious, story telling, and all the conventional methods of literature- to say this isn't poetic or literate because it is musically oriented its structure misses the point. i think here we should understand hip hop lyrics (whether improvised or written and memorised) as the auto, retroactive inscription of themselves as the source of themselves as their own librettos.

away good OP.

>>13129557
easy

>>13129564
Oh, nothing's confusing about it. It's perfectly comprehensible nonsense. I didn't listen to that video btw, are you stupid?

>>13129635
are you? sounds like you can't parse basic metaphor or wordplay
do you find yourself struggling to glean meaning from dickinson as well? you might be a brainlet friend, i only want to help you discover the truth

>>13129623
>I kidnapped you, look what you're strapped to
>my elaborate device, you're handcuffed to it

Kek
Bro u can’t be serious this is middle school angst
(Uh)

>>13128945
That's the best it normally is , clever and funny. I love MF doom but I'm not about to describe his lyrics as poetry. There are a few """underground"""" rappers who do try but mostly just end up with a pedantic reference-pastiche like Milo or Billy Woods

>>13129628
>your too rigid in my opinion though. mcing still participates in the impulse to enact the impulse towards posey. Its a inherent predisposition towards performativity of language. I think you could make a case that rap, a certain element of it, is more poetic than written, ossified literate poetry on the page as it participates in the dynamism of autonomous oracular pronouncement

What the fuck are you saying bro speak English. Intellectualizing it doesn’t strengthen your case, especially when ur wrong

>>13129639
On a scale of 1-10 how bad are you seething right now? 10 being furious, and 1 being more like a passive cope.

>>13129656
you didn't answer the question. don't be embarrassed, buddy, somebody's got to balance out the iq curve and there's no shame in it being you

>>13129129
>good poem better than good music

absolute philistine doesn't realise the height of culture is their fusion. why divide them?

>>13129685
Cuz the strength of each reside in their own charm
The best music is is always instrumental (not exuding choir) but making out words really does detract from full expression but I like your post what’s up bro

>>13129719
>The best music is is always instrumental
confirmed for no musical taste

Nothing a nigger said was ever worthwhile.

>>13129727
U bastard!
I’m talking about Clair de lune, Moonlight Sonata, Bouree, Chopins Nocturns
Run nigga run

>>13129740
You can ignore the words, and the voice functions like an instrument. And occasionally the words can add to the music, sketch a picture that acts as a schema for all other pictures that could be associated with that musical piece. But this takes a good deal of lyrical skill

>>13129757
I get what your saying but music is not about deciphering notes, which language is, their two separate activities. I like music with words, I’m just saying the BEST music is pure, it’s totally itself, which is musical and not grammatical. Same goes for poetry. Poetry is euphonious but simply because speech is auditory not because it’s musical

>>13129603
>trusting a corrupt capitalist government to provide honest statistics
yeehaw partner

>write poem in aggressive style with internal line rhyme, ABAB, and alliteration
>sounds like rap when I read it aloud
It's unedited, pls no bully

Poems and posies only found in graveyards amour and vases broken to shards
Books plying my heart burned to heat plywood mansions
Nothing we feel can be sold so it’s shot down if it can’t be reduced to holiday cards
Mass layoffs for Christmas and more highway expansions

>>13129947
Exactly. Too easy
A rapper is a voice a cadence and a beat

>>13128730
no mention of Nas. fuck, I knew you were all plebs.

>>13129740
>I’m talking about Clair de lune, Moonlight Sonata, Bouree, Chopins Nocturns
I never thought I could call a bait beautiful. But here we are

>>13129974
Nas is better than the entire Wu Tang.

>>13129734
yeah that's why the Jews had to kill MLK, right?

>>13128730
i am not "into" rap, but from what i've heard of it, it does seem better than modern poetry. almost all poetry from the past 50 years is either autistic, uninspired, needlessly self-important, retarded, or some combination thereof. a lot of fairly recent lyrical music is better than modern poetry, but rap seems to be the only popular genre today that is.

yes you are the only one

>>13130025
agreed. he's the greatest black poet of all time

While I generally agree with your opinion, I think you'd have to dig A LOT to find anything of value. If you want some good German stuff, Retrogott and Audio88 are my recommendation.