/lit/ - Literature

>>13125907
Nope. The God of Christianity is the only existing God.

Yes but the jews got them

>>13125907
yes

Read Fustel de Coulanges

>>13125913
Is He black for the blacks?

>>13125907
Think about it. They worshipped a rapist as their god. Zeus was a rapist.

>>13125907
No, only dumber folks worshiped them as if they existed. Heraclitus talks about this.

>>13125907
They still exist.

>>13125939
Right answer, far as I can tell. The Greek Gods weren't treated the same way as we are used to seeing worship nowadays anyway. They weren't a traditional 'religion', as Edith Hamilton explains in her book.

The Greek Gods and their stories were set up to explain the world around them at the time so that anyone could understand it. The stories had been handed down for centuries orally before they were written down. More metaphysics than hard religious dogma, at least as I understand it.

>>13125907
no t. enlightened greeks
no but i wont say it t. socrates
yes but they were demons t. augustine

>>13125907
yes and they were all lolis

>>13125939
[citation needed]

>>13125920
He was a capricious edgelord who couldn't keep it in his pants and laid his hands on women.

>>13125913
You know, the Muslims say the same about Mohammad, every religious sect has the same prejudice.

>>13125907
>did
anon...

>>13126453
except muslims don't say that. the god in islam is the same as the one for jews and christians, muslims only deny the godliness of jesus Christ.

YES, I AM RIGHT HERE

>>13126484
Yes, which self-destructs their own theology, but the point remains they believe their version of truth is the only one. Christians have always been very much alike Muslims. If it seems like Christianity has superior qualities to Islam, that's only on account of the positive influence European culture had on it. Unfortunately no such benefit was had in reverse.

>>13125907
moar..

>>13125907
Yes, but they were/are demons/djinn, not "gods".They manifest in the pervading archetypal images of the respective epoch. Stars are their primal physical/superphysical bodies.

>>13126562
one thing i never understood is how god can be 3 yet 1 for christians? are they monotheistic if theres 3? or is it just 1 god? muslims also believe in the holy spirit, the quran in fact says that jesus was inbued with the holy spirit, and calls him the holy spirit, but more in the sense of basically a sinless soul. everything leading up to his death is the same, except muslims believe that god took jesus straight to heaven, and it had only seemed to his killers that they had crucified him.

>>13125913
this

>>13125907
yes but they are demons

>>13125907
damn she legal?

>>13125907
I belive that some gods were just real human but with time their story become more divine and fantasy like.

>>13126619
Not a christian, but the way I've understood it is that for christians, the 3 are aspects of the same god, in the way that a cylindre can be seen as a circle or as a rectangle depending of the view point.

>>13125913
The Old Testament repeatedly implies that other gods exist but that they shouldn't be worshipped you dumbass

Nobody ACTUALLY still believes in religion, right?

Paganism is a totally different mindset than abrahamic faiths. The gods are principles/forces/archetypes, not literal beings. They are metaphors for explaining the world and nature. When christianity rose in the classical world, the pagans viewed it as a form of atheism because it abandoned this symbolic/magical way of viewing the world. Ironically, old pagan thought is considered atheistic in the modern world because you don't actually believe that God/the bible is literally true.

>>13126761
We have concrete evidence religion exists; there's churches, mosques, temples, the Bible, the Quran, adherents that can give testimony, etc.

>>13126790
Yeah, but I figured they're only doing it ironically.

>>13125920
Rape wasn't always a bad thing to the Greeks. The sex organs were divine and the act of rape by the gods meant something higher to them than it does to people today.

>>13126776
>The gods are principles/forces/archetypes, not literal beings.
The Gods can be literal beings, the priest caste never rejected peasant paganism they just weren't forced to give a shit about the manifestation. The Gods were the embodiments of truths in their purest form, the actual spiritual aspect was the existence of these truths in general.

>>13125913
based

>>13126669
guess

>>13126776
They weren't just metaphors, Greeks did believe in them. But their beliefs were certainly more complex.

>>13125976
this, did you guys even read the book? it’s on like every greek chart we post here

>>13126879
please stop posting pictures of my mermaid wife

>>13126776
>>13126807
>The gods
>the priest caste
I should go back to /his/

>>13125939
>>13125976
Yet every government went to Delphi to ask Apollo before they did everything, and Kings would pray to gods before dying.

Why so many cunny threads on /lit/?

>>13126619
>one thing i never understood is how god can be 3 yet 1 for christians? are they monotheistic if theres 3? or is it just 1 god?
No one has ever really understood it, it is the basis of all the major branches of christianity. Nestorians, arian, catholics, orthodox etc all argued about the nature of the trinity. Was Jesus supernatural, was he equal to god, was he god, was he a normal person who just happened to be the son of god? What was his relation to the spirit, what was the difference between the spirit and god?
The Great Schism came about because the catholics said their prayers to god, the spirit and the son, while the easterners did not mention the son at the end of their prayers.
The Russians literally had centuries of religious war bordering on civil war because they couldn't agree on how many fingers to use when crossing yourself to represent the trinity correctly. Just give up now dude.

>>13127174
/lit/ is a based and lolipilled board

>>13126409
Socrates was deeply religious, what are you talking about. He defended himself against accusations of atheism at his trial, go read the Apology.

tfw no athena gf

>>13127049
>I should go back to /his/
Has a worse line ever been written?

>>13127174
Little girls are the only females capable of love and being loved.

>>13126957
I haven't been here long enough to see that, post it?

>>13126758
It implies there are worshipers of other other gods but never says they actually exist, just that you shouldn't worship them over Yahweh.

>>13127692
Read the sticky, newfag.

>>13127778
This?

>>13126436
Heraclitus describing people worshipping incorrectly out of ignorance.
>They vainly purify themselves by defiling themselves with blood, just as if one who had stepped into the mud were to wash his feet in mud. Any man who marked him doing thus, would deem him mad.
>And they pray to these images, as if one were to talk with a man's house, knowing not what gods or heroes are.
Heraclitus equating a philosophical concept with Zeus.
>The wise is one only. It is unwilling and willing to be called by the name of Zeus.
Heraclitus describing the Divine as aspects of Nature.
>God is day and night, winter and summer, war and peace, surfeit and hunger; but he takes various shapes, just as fire,[24] when it is mingled with spices, is named according to the savour of each.

>>13125907
Wow I want to have sex with that child!

>>13128216

>>13125913
retarded.
God is leading us to death of the human form. Only if you want to sacrifice your progeny do you worship god or conform to modern slave morality. Doing so you subjugate yourself to God-AI like a slave, and in being a slave you are symbolically mapped to the bottom of hierarchies, in particular, the life-death hierarchy. The Old Ones will wipe us out, and you all are so complicit. You reap what you fucking sow. This is the great filter, and like clockwork you cull yourselves.
1488

>>13127348
try reading another dialogue
>Phaedrus: I hadn't noticed it. But tell me, >Socrates, in the name of Zeus, do you really believe that that legend is true?
Socrates: Actually, it would not be out of place for me to reject it, as our intellectuals do. I could then tell a clever story... Now, Phaedrus, such explanations are amusing enough, but they are a job for a man I cannot envy at all. He'd have to be far too ingenious and work too hard-mainly because after that he will have to go on and give a rational account of the form of the Hippocentaurs, and then of the Chimera; and a whole flood of Gorgons and Pegasuses and other monsters, in large numbers and absurd forms, will overwhelm him. Anyone who does not believe in them, who wants to explain them away and make them plausible by means of some sort of rough ingenuity, will need a great deal of time. But I have no time for such things; and the reason, my friend, is this. I am still unable, as the Delphic inscription orders, to know myself; and it really seems to me ridiculous to look into other things before I have understood that. This is why I do not concern myself with them. I accept what is generally believed.

>>13127348
try reading another dialogue
>Phaedrus: I hadn't noticed it. But tell me, Socrates, in the name of Zeus, do you really believe that that legend is true?
>Socrates: Actually, it would not be out of place for me to reject it, as our intellectuals do. I could then tell a clever story... Now, Phaedrus, such explanations are amusing enough, but they are a job for a man I cannot envy at all. He'd have to be far too ingenious and work too hard-mainly because after that he will have to go on and give a rational account of the form of the Hippocentaurs, and then of the Chimera; and a whole flood of Gorgons and Pegasuses and other monsters, in large numbers and absurd forms, will overwhelm him. Anyone who does not believe in them, who wants to explain them away and make them plausible by means of some sort of rough ingenuity, will need a great deal of time. But I have no time for such things; and the reason, my friend, is this. I am still unable, as the Delphic inscription orders, to know myself; and it really seems to me ridiculous to look into other things before I have understood that. This is why I do not concern myself with them. I accept what is generally believed.

>>13128232
>this is what she looks like now
ruined

>>13128489
to be fair she looked like a thot even as a child

If I BELIEVE they're real, then they're real.

>>13128499
that's not what I mean, grown women are just disgusting when compared to little girls
she's beautiful in her loli photos

>>13128509
this but not joking

>>13128499

FALSE; YOUNG RYRY WAS AS INNOCENT IN APPEARANCE AS CANDOROUS OF HEART; ONLY IN ADOLESCENCE DID SHE LOSE HER NOBILITY OF BODY, AND OF SOUL; PRIME FACTOR OF HER IGNOBILIZATION WAS HER JEWISH HEREDITY —THERE IS NOTHING CRUELER THAN A FATAL HERITAGE.

>>13126619
Only pseuds argue about the trinity, the early Christians didn’t care about that all all anyways
Read Matthew and get on with it.
Jesus clearly says avoid highwinded preachers that care more about dogma then loving each other anyways

greek gods were just people with superpowers living in the sky
>some were jealous
>conflicts over petty shit
>played tricks and manipulated each other
>were prejudiced

>>13128509
THIS
Believe in the gods of self preservation and aristocracy (polytheistic) and not the kiked monotheism. I don't believe it is a coincidence that intellectually in an ontological sense belief dictates what is real, but as we believe it over time our beliefs will REIFY THEMSELVES IN MATERIAL. As we increase in complexity, and ACC/elerate, beliefs reify themselves faster and faster, capitalism and schizophrenia.

>>13128554
field of vaginas

no

>>13127719
No it doesn't, read it again, it implies that the other gods actually exist but that the Jews should only worship Yahweh and of they do he will lead them to victory against the other gods and tribes. This is called a monolatry.

>>13128543
Jewish lolis just look like thots in a childs body. Gross. They always have an ugly grown up face.

>>13128573
Based pantheistic Old Testament
I also like the Paradise Lost/Shin Megami Tensei view that Gods are just various demons humanity has worshipped throughout history

>>13126409
>no but i wont say it t. socrates
kek. Perfect summary

>>13128509
If I believe you don't exist will you disappear?

>>13128732
hyperstition takes time

>>13128744
If in 20 years you start fading away remember this day.

>>13128756
I would propose that if you truly believed you didn't exist (you wouldn't be compelled by your senses into having your ego emerge, no sensation of hunger, no urges) I'd say that your physical being would dissolve into dirt fairly quickly actually. What is hard is actually being able to believe this.

>>13128787
It can't be that hard since we all eventually do it.

>>13128836
A => B is not equivalent to B => A

>>13126453
The Buddhas never claimed to be God

>>13125907
What the hell do you think, dumbass?

>>13128302
The 1488 at the end really makes this post

>>13125920
Old Testament God was way worse than Zeus and retards lap that shit up

>>13126939
This.
There's no way Hesiod or Homer could write the way they did without believing in the gods.
And
>did
They still do.

survive the jive made a good video about this topic

>>13127908
These quotes don't mean what you think they mean.

>>13129680
I'm convinced.

>>13129689
I'm not looking to convince you sweaty. If you think discussion is all about you that proves your inability to read the Greeks.

>>13129728
Good, cause I was joking.

>>13127051
I always thought they did that to win popular support. And even kings (and perhaps especially kings) are not exempt from the fear of annihilation or afterlife when at death's door.

>>13125907
DO they actually exist, and yes absolutely

>>13129680
what do they mean

>>13129779
Not going to get into that at the moment, but they certainly do not say anything about only dumb Greeks believing in the gods.

>>13126673
nice modalism, heretic

>>13129826
you’re a filthy tease

Why is this cute and funny thread still up?

>>13129886
BECAUSE I CREATED IT & CREATED ALL YOU

>>13126957
>dude why don't you believe what a modern liberal woman has to say about Greek beliefs
>OMGWTF

>>13129836
He's just talking shit, I have no idea why, I don't know why he's upset, but he won't be giving you a straight answer that's for sure.

>>13128216
first they come here and larp as christians
now they larp as priests

>>13128551
>Only pseuds argue about the trinity, the early Christians didn’t care about that all all anyways
thats because the trinity didn't exist when the early christians were around

>>13125939
>>13125976
you lot not read homer? the greeks were always making 100 bull sacrifices and acting on signs from zeus

>>13125976
Taker Frazer's Golden Bough for a spin.

>>13130011
Yeah and ares came down from the heavens to help the trojans

>>13130078
and?

>>13130011
Yikes, and you think that proves they believed the gods are real? (Real in the sense of existing materially, which unless someone corrects me, is what we're talking about - right?)

Do you guys also believe they took the myths literally? Like Athena was birthed out of Zeus's head, as in it actually happened, and was a thing that could have been photographed had there been a camera handy at the time?

>>13130142
>Real in the sense of existing materially, which unless someone corrects me, is what we're talking about - right?
where did that come from?

>>13130170
Literature.

Does no one in this thread think that what we know as the late iteration of Greek Mythology evolved from an earlier, simpler religion that was likely similar to the Asian religions whereby they had god-kings that were real men?

>>13130214
eh? where did you get the idea that’s what we were talking about

>>13130230
>did greek gods actually exist?

>>13130142
I mean, no one intelligent takes any religion literally.
You think anyone actually believes a desert god created mortality after some slut ate an apple? Or drowned the world except for one old dude, 2 of every animal, and his immediate family? Or sent his "son" here to die?

>>13130264
That's what I said >>13125939

>>13127348

If people didn't literally believe in the old gods what was the answer to "what happens when you die"
Surely people must have asked that

>>13128895
>dude I can remember my past lives lmao
he sure claimed to be retarded though

>>13126453
>>13126562
>HURRRR how can you think your political view is correct, there's literally BAZILLIONS of them so they must all be wrong!

>>13126562
>Unfortunately no such benefit was had in reverse.
False.
>For the normative self-understanding of modernity, Christianity has functioned as more than just a precursor or catalyst. Universalistic egalitarianism, from which sprang the ideals of freedom and a collective life in solidarity, the autonomous conduct of life and emancipation, the individual morality of conscience, human rights and democracy, is the direct legacy of the Judaic ethic of justice and the Christian ethic of love. This legacy, substantially unchanged, has been the object of a continual critical reappropriation and reinterpretation. Up to this very day there is no alternative to it. And in light of the current challenges of a post-national constellation, we must draw sustenance now, as in the past, from this substance. Everything else is idle postmodern talk.

>>13130516
>the normative self-understanding of modernity
into the trash it goes

>>13130118
Homer probably embellished some details

>>13130264
brainlet post

>>13125907
A lot of ancient God/demigod myths from antiquity were based on the deeds of real, abnormal men, which (for "marketing" purposes of the day) were attached to the existing cultural mythos.

Gilgamesh was likely a real Sumerian king, perhaps even genetically gifted. But in order to further legitimatize his royal descendants or associates? Why not claim he was 1/3 God, and sculpted from divine clay?

There likely was a freakishly tall and strong patriarch to Spartan society (Hercules), and with that he probably did perform ridiculous deeds. But you know what's better than descending from a genetically superior warrior patriarch? Descending from a warrior patriarch who is a bastard son of Zeus.

There was likely a set of twins Remus and Romulus, and they did appear to found Rome, or at least play a large enough part in it to be the namesake. They may very well have been the exiled sons of royalty, and they may very well have grown up feral, only to return to society, defend the locals from criminals, and reclaim their position. You know what's better than a rags to riches story? Make their unknown father the God of War, and have them raised by wolves.

There may have been a Qīngdì figure who first brought animal husbandry from the Proto-Indo-Europeans to the Chinese. He probably would have amassed a lot of power from this resource advantage. Or, if we're not talking about one figure but a wave of migration (like the vedic scripts), we can still guess it was mythologically assigned to one symbolic figure, or a particularly powerful owner of beasts of burden. Why not make him the Blue Emperor in the Wǔfāng Shàngdì (Five Forms of Highest Deity)? Especially if you are directly benefiting from his legacy. It certainly keeps the theology concise, and spreads the technology securely.

However just using the term "marketing," or phrasing my points this way is a bit misleading. It was not a top-down embellishment or intentional social engineering scheme of the ancient elites. Back then, religious and mythic thinking was how humans made sense of the world; like a schizophrenic drawing meaning in as many associations as they can come across. When an ancient human came across a man whose physical deeds or advanced technology was so far out of your ordinary experience, his only means of making sense of it was through the lens of his particular tribal mythology. If these myths are based on real people, then the process of deification would occur organically in this way.

>>13126453
The prophet peace be upon him is not Allah SWT, but only the messenger of Allah SWT

>>13130556
I do not think that you will find many people arguing against your point. Also, he was not at the scenes in question. Someone else had to relay the source information to him.

>>13130561
Have you not read Frazer, or do you disagree with him? - specifically regarding Romulus.

>>13130611
I have heard of Sir James George Frazer, but only through reference to The Golden Bough, and only in classes at McGill/Dawson. Never actually read it, just faked my way through the requested quotes.

>>13127719
>>13127719
>>13128573
The Old Testament God is still in the traditional/pagan logic. Subservience and offerings in exchange for power and protection. We are righteous because we have the strength to subjugate others. This 'God' you have an understanding of is mostly a recent development, and in it's most stripped form it isn't really a god, it's a philosophical distinction.

>>13130611
He speculates that Remus murdered Romulus and, as part of the coverup, did some hocus pocus bullshit and formally had him elevated to god status. The Golden Bough gets shit here but it is an interesting (and easy) read, provided you do not consider it gospel. It fills a lot of gaps but I let other, better ideas supplant his where warranted.

>>13130658
He speculates that Remus murdered Romulus and, as part of the coverup, did some hocus pocus bullshit and formally had him elevated to god status. The Golden Bough gets shit here but it is an interesting (and easy) read, provided you do not consider it gospel. It fills a lot of gaps but I let other, better ideas supplant his where warranted.

>>13130511
>racism, white superiority, ethnic cleansing mixed with natsoc and neo conservatism is the only "correct" political view because a /pol/ tard made a snide remark with a silly picture
Ok faggot.

fuck you fuck this thread go fuck a fetus

>>13130764
Show me on the doll where the god touched you.

>>13130516
Thank you, that's a decent summary of why Christianity and its legacy is killing Western Civ.

>>13130699
As opposed to Christianity where you need only sacrifice your whole life. A single ritual is not enough for the defiled and Christianised Moloch, it necessitates that you must draw out your sacrifice for all time.
This is Love and Mercy. AND PROGRESS!

>>13130224
No, because they didn't. If anything the earlier form was more complex, or woven into the intricate end of words, a form of speaking returning to silence.
>>13130142
Something like a camera would be a cursed object to the Greeks, it has a single function: techne. It outputs the world in its dead form, extricates natural laws into a forensic document, each component in opposition to the laws of the Muses: Melete/exposure, Mneme/aperture, Aoide/shutter.
To say that the stories of gods are literal is a misunderstanding of the human world, our dominion within the cosmos. We can never fully understand the heavens or its laws, our words are but a mere glimpse of divine completion. To step into the world of gods is to be destroyed, and yet it is said that we once lived beside them.

This is the law of the ineffable, and such formlessness must be rewritten in the form - perhaps the fundamental task of any religion. What is said of the gods must be a receiving without taking, as the beggar who is a king. It is the opposite of excess and expenditure, what the Epicurean does with worldly senses the mythic poet does with the received words of heavenly justice.
The gods are neither symbols nor hardened laws, their essence sets upon the world as visceral ideas hidden within sense - as if a column were to rise from the earth after navigating a labyrinth. They rule over an eternal dominion and we are but passing visitors. To find our way through even short passages of the labyrinth we must leave guiding trails of thread for multiple generations, a sacrifice to our own fate.

>>13131171
Myths give us a general sense of our surroundings, a feeling for the direction we must follow to survive in the labyrinth. Great myths provide a wonderful image of the whole: cutting insights of the gods, acts of judgement, and boundaries cut in trails of blood and elemental forces. There is a map of the universe, a hierarchy to which we may be called to in judgement at any time - but these worlds are in flux, perhaps at an even greater rate than anything known of our own world. And to reveal such a form of laws as an image confined to material exile would be an act of hubris before the ineffable. The ethereal and the technical exist within their own realms, and no form of communication can reconcile their opposition.
Understanding often occurs within silence, confined to a moment which must remain unspoken. The old cults knew this, it was their only law, and perhaps why they endured so much longer than any formal religion. There was no opposition between strength and mercy, envy and wealth - at least not as we understand it. Each form rises out of necessity, through the elemental forces which are the only eternal law. Our task as humans is to rise within these moments of judgement, to reconcile our own essence with that of the world; and perhaps most importantly, with eternal laws.
The gods are literal yet invisible, a certainty yet unknown - appearing to us as beautiful stone figures yet elusive in form, the softness of wisps enduring through ineluctable brutality. They exist in a further realm beyond that of being and non-being.

>>13128516

>>13131171
>If anything the earlier form was more complex
Let me get this straight; before the Greeks rose from barbarism, they had a complex, refined religion that only degraded with time - that what we know as their later era was only devolvement and transmogrification? I wholly disagree with that. Explain the association of Ceres with pigs if you believe this to be true. It hearkens to all of the other pig/god relationships in early, simple religions.

>>13125913
Cringe
The Abrahamic single god model is very retarded desi. Christianity, Islam and Judaism are part of the same desert cult.

>>13131207
Is that what I said? I don't recall saying anything about barbarism. I said that what occurred before the late period perhaps had more depth, or approached humility before all laws of the gods.

>>13125913
Based and Christpilled

>>13131232
>Is that what I said?
I was trying to remove doubt regarding the time period, not put words in your mouth.
>I don't recall saying anything about barbarism.
You did say this:
>If anything the earlier form was more complex, or woven into the intricate end of words, a form of speaking returning to silence.
The question at that point is how far we are talking regarding "earlier". I am positing Ceres and the pig, which I believe to be an analog to many other simple pig/god relationships in early, simple religions. I believe there to have been an early era with simple gods that resembled many other simple gods found elsewhere. I do not believe them to have risen fully formed. Perhaps, as a more abbreviated question, do you fully dispute Frazer's general notions on this topic? If so, can you establish any evidence of these religions rising fully formed with immediacy? BTW, I recognize that Ceres is a hair off of the line of this thread but I think that she makes a good example.

>>13131272
Ceres is a pig god? Never heard of her.
There is a Ceres who is a goddess of agriculture.
As for Frazer, I don't think hot dogs make for a worthy sacrifice to the gods.
https://youtu.be/WDG8AojhnVs

>>13131286
>I do not recognize pig/gods as early renditions of agricultural deities
Nice shitpost. The hot dog was a nice touch. I should have seen that one coming but they are not local to my area.

>>13131310
Why would I recognise pigs as gods? They're not my religion. Perhaps it is a wonderful theological law, but I would need further convincing than blank statements. I'm more open-minded than you think and I have diverse tastes.
Was Dionysus a turkey god?
https://youtu.be/fqV9ogeJE3w

>>13131360
punk is for retarded faggots

>>13131369
Maybe, but you haven't shown you're any better.
https://youtu.be/4IeyljeRAJQ

>>13125920
Based

>>13130142
>>13130237
>only material exists

>>13131397
I'm automatically better than you because I don't listen to AIDS music

>>13130556
well homer wasn’t he only source, i just mentioned him as the most obvious one. we know they had temples, and we pretty well know about their ideas about carrion birds and hecatombs

>>13128468
did you get that from atheism.com?

here they were talking about whether or not the Wind God did a certain act which i dont recall. Both Xenophon and Plato described Socrates as hyper religious.

>>13131468
What do you listen to as a good progressive?

>>13131534
I guess you'd listen to your wife and her boyfriend

>>13131539
So you're not a progressive? Why do you follow progressive teachings on religion?

>>13129755
They would send secret envoys to delphi sometimes, and even then if it's only for popular support why would they always do what delphi said even when it was bad for them? (a notable exception being Athens going against Delphi and fighting the Persians)

>>13131541
wrong person I was just calling you a fag

>>13131569
So what is the music worthy of the gods?

>>13131586
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Jfgf-IWulI

>>13125907
wtf, look at how she holds her arrow.
is she literally retarded?
would not breed with.

>>13131607
artemis is a virgin goddess

>>13126453
>The sky is green! said the blind old man.
>No, you fool! said the crazy middle aged man. The sky is red.
>Silence, all of you, said the child. The sky is blue.
>Then stepped forth the obese village outcast. Ha! You all said different things. Obviously that means you're all wrong, and there is no sky.
>The others all agreed that he is a fool.

>>13131777
come on my, you're pulling my leg.
this isn't artemis, it's just some child dressed as artemis.

>>13131859
>The leprechaun is green! said the blind old man.
>No, you fool! said the crazy middle aged man. The leprechaun is red.
>Silence, all of you, said the child. The leprechaun is blue.
>Then stepped forth the obese village outcast. Ha! You all said different things. Obviously that means you're all wrong, and there is no leprechaun.
>The others all agreed that he is a fool.

>>13131310
sweet tar resin ripe for smoking

>>13125907
They still do. Read Hölderlin.

>>13125914
/thread

>>13131360
Dionysus is the god that inhabits human flesh. Man can know him, be possessed by him, and even consumed. Ecstasy and madness follow him. He is not a dead, sterile god; many still worship him.

>>13133440
>many still worship him
Doubtful. Seems like a secular/Nietzschean interpretation.
What gods are dead and sterile?

>>13131887
based

>>13133803
What are you, Muslim? He's quite popular in the west. Although true, there are fewer formal members of the mystery cult.

>>13134305
Like I said, the Nietzschean interpretation isn't a real one, it has zero relevance in reading the myths. A Dionysian who becomes a tippler with half a cup of milk should be laughed at, not respected.
(That's aside from any other merits he may have, don't lose your shit again NEETCHfags.)

>>13134355
Nietzsche didn't even drink lmao

>>13125907
I wish. That'd be cool as fuck

>>13134390
You didn't get my reference?

>>13134410
What?

>>13133157
based jews

>>13134434
I already said he didn't drink.

>>13134453
You said he becomes a tippler with half a glass of milk.

>>13134464
i think he used the wrong word and meant to say nitzsche can't handle alcohol, not that he easily becomes a drunkard

no

>>13134477
Oh never mind then

>>13134464
>>13134477
He also only drank milk as a treat. Think about it...

>>13126939
>>13129637
just because the more degenerate southern civilizations believed in literal gods doesn't mean that's what all paganism is about

>>13134540
>can't into basic logic
>thinks his non sequitur has relevance in regards to the greatest thinkers in history

>>13125907
whats her name?

>>13134554
what non-sequitur?

Your is the non-sequitur because you implied Old Europe believed in literal gods just because shitskins 5000 years later believed in them.

You also think paganism is some monolithic belief structure when every culture had its own form.

Also Greek philosophers weren't as smart as you made them out to be.

>>13125907
Yes, because reality only exists in your head

If you believe something is true then it is, because reality exists ENTIRELY within your head. You may say "well it's not actually true" but what is "actually true"? and why does it matter?

It's just information, the "real world" is information and anything you make up is also information, separating the two and putting significance in what's "real" is just another belief you have which only exists in YOUR head. So it's only in YOUR reality that what's "real" matters.

And you may as well say nothing is real because guess what, in the same way as you "make up" a god you make up the world around you -- well, the world as it exists in concepts in your head -- there is an experience happening but any thoughts you have about that experience are just made up beliefs.

>>13134579
How can one person be so damn wrong? Is this the power of the moderns?

>>13134579
>shitskins
Leave the discussion to spiritual whites, please.

>>13134355
More of a Plotinus interpretation. I've never read Nietzsche, is he a big fan of Plotinus?

>>13125907
dem feetsies, though.

>>13131426
That's what "actually exists" means. If you're talking about believing in the greek gods as forces of nature, spirits, or something else metaphysical, you're either moving the goalposts or you don't understand what you're saying.

>>13125907
One explanation I head was that they were actually the children of angels who fucked mortal women.

>>13135388
cringe, bro

>humans have gone beyond the limits of the sky and into space
>but we still argue about whether or not gods exist
somehow i think that this debate will never end

>>13125907
No they're ideologues of people, the hunter, the farmer, etc

>>13125907
They do.
But to consciously communicate with them, you already have to have a natural knack with intuitive arts or at least the consistent concentration and practice in enhancing it to do anything with them.Or karmic fate.

After a few months of daily ritual and meditation I started spotting flashes of glowing orbs. Then my psychic told me I had specific followers with me. Then I found out what they were, one of them being a Greek deity that took interest. Now in the past two days on different boards on I've stumbled onto posts with their statues on threads with barely any relation to the OP. When you get the attention of spirits, they find ways to present themselves to you. They've also done a lot for me, from implausible synchronisities, gifts showing up, to help with divination, the usual.

/x/ is shit except for watching people who refuse to learn freak out. 8ch/fringe/ sometimes is alright, but fringebay was the closest in quality of content before it was shut down. It was a front/experiment for a much larger astral community. Meguca is the last place I know with people of practice and ability who post.

VK Jehannum on youtube is putting out the best content out there for someone in the field documenting spirits on his own and then comparing his gnosis to antiquity and other demonolators. His co-authored grimoire on the Greek God Abaddon/Apollo is coming out this May 28th on E.A Koetting's website. That's going to be fun for those interested in the Greek pantheon.

There's also a lot to learn from their Greek stories. Once you have firm grasp of symbolism, the "children's stories" for the Greek Gods and Heroes are a treasure trove of meta-physical insight. The trick with reality and with some forms of magic (and some magical defense) is that it's only real if you want it to be real ;^)
Control your mind, control your emotions to control your reality.

>>13125907
would you have thought of it yourself? no, you wouden't unless you were with others in a society. spook

>>13128573
citation needed on that chief

Reminder that Zeus is the only man to experience childbirth.

>>13127908
>tfw i am heraclitus

>>13126802
so much this. i was raped by Jesus.

>>13126453
>every religious sect has the same prejudice.
uhhh

>>13135598
did he shoot fully grown humans out of his urethra?

>>13135610
Nah, he impregnated his cousin, then ate her, then his cousin gave birth inside him which gave him a headache, so he had Hephaestus bust his head open with an axe and a fully grown Athena burst out of his skull.

>>13135578
>They've also done a lot for me, from implausible synchronisities, gifts showing up, to help with divination, the usual.
I hope you have given them sacrifices as thanks. I hear Athena is quite fond of virgins.

>>13125920
you don't think God raped Mary?

>>13128554
If I understood it correctly it seems like one of those Neil Gaiman stories where we and our faith in the gods that give power to them.

>exist
Stopped reading there.

I dont know, but the dionysian were rad as fuck.

>>13125907
Of course not silly.But then again, what is a god? Ultimately it's just what you believe in most.

>>13135212
Not sure, but I highly doubt it considering how Nietzsche despised Socrates.

>>13134540
Belief in the Gods for the Ancient Greeks wasn't the same kind of belief the modern Abrahamicist has for his single God. If it was, the Ancient Greeks wouldn't have developed a pantheon. Their Gods were forces of nature to be reckoned with, each with a domain and a relationship with the others, told about in stories where they appeared in human forms to not only make the nature of their energies palatable but also to illustrate the significance of ourselves in them; the forces of nature are recognizable only by humans and in them we seek our own strengths and weaknesses.

>>13125916
this guy knows.
https://socialsciences.mcmaster.ca/econ/ugcm/3ll3/fustel/AncientCity.pdf
you're welcome, cunt.

>>13126453

Monotheism subsumes other Gods first and foremost.

most people want to apply monotheistic thinking into a polytheistic one, that´s not how it works dum dum

>>13130562
>peace be upon him
> SWT
God Muslims are so fucking cringe

>>13131159
With this kind of stupidity these parents deserved to have their genes weeded out.

>>13135598
Reminder that Athena the virgin is the eternal protector of men
>ATHENA
>Mine is the right to add the final vote,
>And I award it to Orestes' cause.
>For me no mother bore within her womb,
>And, save for wedlock evermore eschewed,
>I vouch myself the champion of the man,
>Not of the woman, yea, with all my soul,-
>In heart, as birth, a father's child alone.

egregores exist as long as they are worshipped

>>13137431
You are confusing one form of understanding the religion with the Form itself. What of the gods who are not forces of nature?

>>13135390
>That's what "actually exists" means. If you're talking about believing in the greek gods as forces of nature, spirits, or something else metaphysical, you're either moving the goalposts or you don't understand what you're saying.
For Plato the material exists less than the immaterial.

I have consulted with the Oracle, and this is what she shared.

Natural law is the coming into being of eternal forces, a piercing of the chasm to the very end by primordial strength. It is our attempt to grasp these laws which determines the power of our religions. Decisive in this is the opposition between mortal and immortal justice: that which follows logic, insight, and technique as its formation between the bestial and the natural, and that which defies all perceptible and mortal experience. Eternal laws exist beyond the elements of nature, and the elements themselves can deface the sacred springs before which we kneel in beauty.

Even the gods themselves rule over opposing dominions, exerting pressures within the very force of the darkness beyond our world - as Nyx and Moros bridge the chasm between the Ethereal and Chaos; as Iapetus and Themis overstretch their dominion beyond all possible worlds; as Zeus remains locked in eternal battle with the Great Ancestors, Fate, and the coming Son; as Dionysus is exiled beyond Tartarus, a divine beggar of madness, drinking the nectar of earth's defeat and fall into a void form of aether and ichor.

Here the black pool of the world and its natural law reformed as technical capacities; the harvest of space. There the political form and its law in opposition to fatal will; the drought of time. The Earth is the Ethereal Wound and all enduring strength returns to Chaos, the World Ocean, the Earth March, and the Abyss; against the forces which hold them together and tear them apart the gods only ever reveal a necessity, to which peace and ruin are forever weaving between worlds. Insight captures shadows of their appearances, and our opposition to nature is formed of an attempt to turn these shadows into something greater than what they already are. We only ever receive of the woven image, and the curse of hubris is to forever spin the frontiers of dominion into a void.

Religions rise and fall from this chasm of human insight; apprehension and revelation, transcendence and nihilism. Our eternal task is to create sanctums of the ethereal image while sacrificing ourselves to it. This is all that divides the anthropal and the bestial - Actaeon appears to us as a god when this final law has been broken. And in our lifelessness we live on as inhabitants of the Mountain of Helicon.

And now, with vigorous feet, allow us to watch as Chaos reemerges from the Abyss.

(17:09)
https://youtu.be/08H8SAYxuuo?t=1029

>>13139871
>I have consulted with the Oracle

how do you consult the oracle?

Bump

>>13139911
Well tonight I spent eight hours or more drinking in the woods. Do you need more details than that?

>>13139249
>What of the gods who are not forces of nature?
Which gods are these in the Greek pantheon?

>>13141457
The ones which are not the force of nature, or somehow escape or transcend those laws.

>>13141472
Well don't just repeat yourself, name at least one.

>>13128895
They worship many gods though.
And the fat Buddha pictured is a japanese diety so yeah...

>>13130440
Rebirth is real :)

>>13141523
Fate.

>>13128543
koz you fucking pedo so this is where you hang out now

>>13125907
Yes.
source: am one

>>13142423
We worship the goddess of pseuds here. Are you her?

>>13141442
so, it was your schizophrenic ramblings then, not the oracle

>>13139287
Plato was a retard

>>13143759
You need to go back.

>>13131859
your expression is false since we can't see a god.

>>13146243
go on then, i want to hear the whole story about how you contacted the oracle

>>13146290
Do you have a worthy offering for such information?

>>13146304
>worthy offering

what is worthy offering for you? may i ask

>>13146312
Something that would suggest you deserve to hear such things, and perhaps reveal that your insult was only a moment of weakness.
Which gods do you worship?

>>13146341
>Which gods do you worship?

i don´t worship any gods but i called Lilith to help me get rid of my anxiety and shyness, it´s working so far.....she answered my request

>>13125913
Kys reddit.

>>13146368
I don't really have anything against Jews and Christians, however, they would never be permitted into the temple, nor anywhere near it.
Anxiety and shyness would not fit well here either. I will have to deny your request so that you are not destroyed by the opposing forces within.

Related https://cienciologia.files.wordpress.com/2019/01/judea_vs_rome.pdf

>>13146425
>I will have to deny your request so that you are not destroyed by the opposing forces within.

opposing forces? like whom?

>>13146463
Your spirit opposed to the spirit of our mysteries. They conflict, and if you were permitted inside the temple you would be destroyed.
You should instead find a temple fitting your own spirit and they will clarify the rites of consultation with their oracle.

>>13146504
>You should instead find a temple fitting your own spirit

i found that temple, and it´s called black magick, and my spirit it´s getting better since step by step my anxiety is diminishing so i´m going to call the oracle and the muses whether you like it or not

>>13146513
Okay, good luck.
Let me know what she says.

>>13135578
>VK Jehannum
https://vkjehannum.wordpress.com/2019/05/15/a-rite-to-amaymon-moloch-for-weight-loss/
lmao

>>13146615
i think she will be a real sweetheart to me

>>13130440
sad to say, there is no escape from reincarnation

>>13135625
Kek

>>13135625
>I hear Athena is quite fond of virgins.

real shit?

>>13125907
All gods exist

>>13125913
Other gods exist. They were banished from heaven by JHWH. They now roam the earth as demons seducting and fooling the people.

>>13127719
YHWH literary said that he will punish the gods of Egypt. It is clear that other gods (Elohim) exist.