/lit/ - Literature

Rand

>>13090288
Is Conan enjoyable? Is it better than say merciless lackley?

>>13090323
I haven't read that, but I find conan enjoyable. Its just that the stories are let down by the fact he's such a mary sue, and they are all separate short stories rather then strung together in longer book length narratives.

>>13090288
He isn't a Mary Sue. The hallmark of a Sue is effortlesness. Conan is nothing but effort. It just looks superficially similar, because the reader sees only the end result of decades of effort.

Conan fights monsters, wizards and other men with his own wits, brawn and most importantly will. He's a selfmade man; what he got from others is hardy Cimmerian blood and a barbarians constitution, which he tempered into himself.

>>13090323
Slightly better than the Solomon Kane stuff, but Howard is a desperately limited writer

Bran Mak Morn and Kull are Howard's best characters. Bran especially is a doomed, tragic figure, temporarily holding back the doom of his people.

The Conan stories aren't fan fiction. They're original works, unlike, say, the Star Wars sequel trilogy.

>>13090447
The short story format is the reason Conan seems like a Sue. There's no time for significant setbacks. Read The Hour of the Dragon if you want to see Conan failing.

Conan gets his shit pushed in plenty of times, wtf are you talking about.

>>13090672
Kull is my fucking shit. I like the Striking of the Gong probably the most. It's also funny that he's a volcel virgin his whole life

>>13090288
He grew up strangling bulls with his barehands. He wanted more from life and set out to travel the world.

That's a life of training, and ambition. Everything is earned.

>>13090288
If he's a Mary sue how does he lose his kingdom? Why is he forced to get various allies in order to reclaim his throne?
Unironically read hour of the dragon. It's better than the scarlet citadel

Why'd he do it?

>>13090288
>Is there a bigger Mary Sue in the history of literature
Harry Potter

>>13090323
Read it for the story, not the prose. Howard is a mediocre writer who was a good storyteller. But if you’re not interested in the genre, skip it.

>>13091581
Forced to proofread Lovecraft.

>>13090288
Enoby Darkness Dementia Raven Way

>>13091634
>THE LONG TAPERS flickered, sending the black shadows wavering along
>the walls, and the velvet tapestries rippled. Yet there was no wind in
>the chamber. Four men stood about the ebony table on which lay the
>green sarcophagus that gleamed like carven jade. In the upraised right
>hand of each man a curious black candle burned with a weird greenish
>light. Outside was night and a lost wind moaning among the black
>trees.

>Inside the chamber was tense silence, and the wavering of the shadows,
>while four pairs of eyes, burning with intensity, were fixed on the
>long green case across which cryptic hieroglyphics writhed, as if lent
>life and movement by the unsteady light. The man at the foot of the
>sarcophagus leaned over it and moved his candle as if he were writing
>with a pen, inscribing a mystic symbol in the air. Then he set down
>the candle in its black gold stick at the foot of the case, and,
>mumbling some formula unintelligible to his companions, he thrust a
>broad white hand into his fur-trimmed robe. When he brought it forth
>again it was as if he cupped in his palm a ball of living fire.
They are not great works by any means, but I found his prose consistently well turned, and could provoke strong images. It's still better than 95% of prose churned out nowadays.

>>13090288
You're an idiot and you don't know what a Mary Sue is.

>>13090288
It seems there is a growing confusion between a Superman character and a Mary Sue. They seem similar, because each is overwhelmingly superior to all characters around them. The distinction comes in the rest of the story. The point of a superman story is to say "alright, what if this superior person exists, what would that be like? How would other people react?" It is an exploration of character in extremes. With a Mary Sue, however, the story is set up in a traditional way. There is no effort put into how others react to them. And this is essential. A Superman is, as the name suggests, put forward as super, as beyond, as extraordinary. A Mary Sue, as the name suggests, is put forward as ordinary, as normal, as extraordinary. The whole world watches and is in awe of Superman. When Rey demonstrates skill and talent far beyond the norm, there is almost no comment. The reaction is simply "Wow, Rey, that's great." Rey's gifts are not a matter of conversation, it does not make anyone worried, it's not brought up as a prophecy, it's not treated any differently than if someone turned out to be a really good cook. Arya, for example, became one of the best, if not the best, fighters on the continent, and killed the night king. But the feast isn't held for her. Hardly anybody has changed at all. Conan is a superman. He has a reputation that precedes him. The world changes around him. He is an exploration of strength and primalism and will. In other words, the only difference is good writing. If you make a character absurdly op, it's bad writing to make their power seem mundane.

>>13090288
>then

>>13091239
Same. I love the whole celibate philosopher-king angle.

>>13090323

Yeah, Conan is fun as hell. Also, Howard was a pretty competent writer for the genre he's set in, he was in no way limited like >>13090540 said. He's to fast-paced pulp fantasy like what Tolkien was to epic fantasy: to this day both had many imitators, but no one surpassed them.

>>13090288
That’s becouse your american mindset
Literally everyone else in the world doesn’t care if Conan has trained hard enought to be that strong but they only enjoy is adventures becouse they are fun as hell