/lit/ - Literature

So many different understandings. It's the Word: the "axiom" of reality.

>>13048589
the word logos in Greek means discourse or word, depending on what you're reading can be use for diferent things, logos in the Bible means something completely different from how Aristoteles uses it

>>13048612
> logos in the Bible means something completely different from how Aristoteles uses it

Oh really? I thought they used it by the same definition. However, I have rather little knowledge about the Bible and Aristotle - do you mind explaining me the difference?

>>13048738
Aristotle pioneered the discipline of logic, or the science of determining undeniable truths through the formation of special sentences.

The idea of Logos in the Gospel of John is different.
> In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men. John 1:1-4

I understand the Logos as literally the Word of God-- not just the fulfillment of scripture, but the entity that directly corresponds to the whatever attempt at rational transmission God makes to man directly, as opposed to through prophets like the Holy Spirit does.

The selfrestituting motion of Sofia via her children, through the triad process, which permeates all Life.

>>13048809
This made me jizz a little

But I think OP wants the Nicene version first

>>13048787
Interesting! Thanks for the answer.

So if the logos is God's rationality, could one say that pathos is the Holy Spirit?
(asking this kind of as a joke but still not)

>>13048809
Any chance I could get the brainlet version?

>>13048816
Not really. Here, this is ripped straight from Wikipedia but it's better than I could do on my own--
>Christian theologians consider John 1:1 to be a central text in their belief that Jesus is God, in connection with the idea that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit together are one God. Although the term Logos or Word is not retained as a title in John's Gospel beyond the prologue, the whole gospel presses these basic claims. As the Logos, Jesus Christ is God in self-revelation (Light) and redemption (Life). He is God to the extent that he can be present to man and knowable to man. The Logos is God,[Jn 1:1] as Thomas stated: "My Lord and my God."[20:28] Yet the Logos is in some sense distinguishable from God, the Father, for "the Logos was with God."[1:1] God and the Logos are not two beings, and yet they are also not simply identical. The paradox that the Logos is God and yet is in some sense distinguishable from God is maintained in the body of the Gospel. That God as he acts and as he is revealed does not "exhaust" God as he is, is reflected in sayings attributed to Jesus: "I and the Father are one"[Jn 10:30] and also, "the Father is greater than I."[14:28] The Logos is God active in creation, revelation, and redemption. Jesus Christ not only gives God's Word to us humans; he is the Word.[1:14] [14:6] The Logos is God, begotten and therefore distinguishable from the Father, but, being God, of the same substance (essence). This was decreed at the First Council of Constantinople (381).

>>13048823
This>>13048809
is based Gnosticism. It's sort of a meme answer but he's not wrong, I just thought you were looking for the Christian definition of Logos.

>>13048831
Wasn't OP, thanks for clarification.

>>13048589

Apologies for the execution.

>>13048970
I'm completely erect

Why haven't I seen one of these beauties before?

>>13048970
i am not only a brainlet, but also very new to philosophy in general, so you lost me completely there
i only read carl jung the undiscovered self and i am currently reading marcus aurelius meditations
i get the feeling i should start with the Greeks first, any recommendations?

>>13049021
Like I said to the other guy, this is Gnostic humor

There are charts on the wiki. Go to the sticky thread and go to recommended reading, scroll down and the link is right there.

If you want to dive into the esoterica, that's a bit of a different proposition, but you might as well get into it the old fashioned way.

>>13048738
Christians will tell you it's totally unrelated but surely the authors if not God knew the rich presocratic, pythagorean, aristotelian and platonic traditions of the Word...
>>13048612
It can also be like a verb. Jesus is the action. At least according to some orthoprax Christian debiminations.
>>13048970
>>13048809
Also this. Based Gnostic / Christian Theosopher / Sophiologist posters.

>>13049021
Diogenes Laertius is an ancient source of much of what we know of ancient greek philosophy. Worth a look. Don't neglect Herodotus and Thucyides and Plutarch either. Also good historians as well.

>>13049114
Diogenes is a bit down the road. He ought to start with Plato and Aristotle

>>13049133
It's an overview of Plato and Aristotle as well as the Presocratics and others. Hell, why not start with the Presocratics?

>>13049133
>>13049032
>>13049140
so, should i fall for the start with the Greeks meme

>>13049140
We only have fragments of them, and Aristotle does a decent treatment of them in his own work. The Pre-socratics don't have a unified system like Plato or Aristotle, which is why you usually read them after you have a good grounding in other stuff. There's just not very much meat, and it's like seventh-hand by the time it gets to Diogenes anyway.

>>13048823
Logos is the motion of Body, Mind, Spirit, and their worldly manifestations, guided by Wisdom, toward the end of restitution of Soul, and transcendence of Kosmos / the natural/physical/material world.

>>13049146
If you're interested in philosophy, it can't hurt. You can skip the poetry if you want desu, and just jump straight to Plato. In fact, that's what I'd do if I was doing it over again. This is supposed to be fun, though, so do it at your own pace and according to your own interests.

If the Father, Son, and Spirit are ontologically distinct, that's polytheism (A, C and D are all of the set of B). If not, it is a contradiction in terms (A = B, C = B, but A does not equal B)

>>13049152
Fair enough.
>>13049146
Just do what you wanna do. /lit/ charts tend to be thorough to a fault. Good suggestions but don't get caught up in prereqs and completionism. Read around what interests you. That's what I've done and it's worked reasonably well.

>>13049194
They're hypostases of the same substance.
>Begotten not made
>Proceeds from

There's a process of seperation in terms of action.

Logos is easy, what the duck is Holy Spirit though
inb4 some invisible force influencing people - didn't God the Father already do that plenty of times in the OT? isn't the concept a little redundant, at least when compared to Jesus Christ?

>>13049209
It comes from the hebrew shekinah.

>>13049200
G = {A, B, C} is polytheism

>>13049233
Have you ever actually read the Nicene Creed?
If you actually want to talk about this, fine, but I saw your thread on /his/ so it looks like this is just mass-produced bait

>>13049256
>smug frog dot jpeg
>still not entirely convinced it's bait

baka

>>13049282
I'm starved for interesting theological conversation

>>13049256
I have read the Nicene Creed and the New Testament and multiple Church Fathers

Read Origen

>>13049296
nontrinitarian gang

>>13049233
>G = {A, B, C} is polytheism
this is incorrect representation. Trinity ≠ three things adding up into one, but precisely One. Three hypostases, a single ousia. 'I, Me, Thou.' Every form of Personality. I and Other-I. The Many & the One. Distinction without Separation (in the same sense of how there are many languages: multiple forms of expressing Rational existence. The 'True' Language is not a single language that supersedes all others, but precisely the knowledge of all languages together; i.e. multiplicity but no longer separated. Hence Pentecost. The Apostles speaking all the languages of the world at once etc.)

formal representation of Trinity would be more along the lines of this:
A = A
not-A = B
B = B
not-B = C
C = C
not-C = A
A = A

Cyclical. Enclosed. the One. ' O ' . Holy, Holy, Holy...

>>13050305
>My, myself and I are different hypostases!

>>13050305
Reminds me of trikaya

>>13048970
What is this then?

>>13049194
>>13049233

Their relation is Dialectical. Consider these as concentric, and 1 to 5 concerning the Trinity:

1. Absolute Idealism
2. Dialectic
3. Absolute Monism
4. The Monad
5. A Monad
6. Another Monad
7. The Dyad
8. A Dyad
9. Panentheism
10. Pantheism

>>13050227
aka heresy gang

>>13050434
Dialectical, so a set