/lit/ - Literature

genesis is basically incest cuck smut

>>13015952
>reading the Bible for the first time cover to cover
>reading ESV ever
>projecting his own childish worldview onto the text
Atheists suck at reading scripture so consistently I feel like it's almost a failing on the part of the church at this point, we need to put out a guide or tutorial or something

>>13015985
i started with the ESV because i want something annotated. without some analysis/context its pretty goddamn meaningless. suggest a better annotated version for an atheist/historical reader?

>>13015985
christian rape apologist piece of shit

>>13015952
>reading the ESV translation
Lmao, you fucking retard. Read KJV or DRB. If those too difficult for you, then go for RSV. Every translation that came out within the last 40 years should be avoided like the plague.

>>13016054
are you going to recommend a companion text to any of those or do you suggest leaving this part of the exersize to the holy spirit? should i go to a church and ask the redneck pastor what he thinks? are you a fucking uneducated piece of shit?

>>13016074
>are you going to recommend a companion text to any of those
No, because you're an insufferable asshole. Go find it yourself.

>>13016054
why do we need so many versions?
why didn't god just make his infallible word unambiguous?

>>13016084
that doesn't sound very christian of you
>le ebin hat meme
wow it's 2013 again
but it's still literally the only thing religitards have to defend their made up bullshit

>>13016084
sounds to me like you haven't read or analyzed the bible at all. don't worry talk to jesus!

>>13016098
>>13016099

>>13016087
He did, but you're too much of a lazy sonofabitch to learn Koine or ancient Hebrew or Aramaic so you get to wallow through modern translations instead

>>13016098
>wow it's 2013 again
That's rich coming from the guy who's acting like an edgy teenager from 2009. Did mommy and daddy force you to go to church? What's your favorite TheAmazingAtheist video?

>>13016132
>christians who don't analyze the text or know anything about the history surrounding it and don't understand their own religion beyond what their redneck pastors ramble on about
you're a fuckin dumbass

>>13016159
>being ESL
cringe

>>13016170
that's it? cringe? what is your analysis of the end of lot's story in genesis? do you have an opinion? do you have a clue what im talking about, cucklord?

>yet another angry Christian thread

>>13016188
>yet another angry Atheist thread
FTFY

Being an edgelord and reading the Bible has the benefit that in the course of your life you will be put in a situation where you will understand why it was valuable to read it in the first place. It's fine, the Old Testament sucks dicks anyway, apart from Ecclesiastes, Job, Psalms and Proverbs. Read what Jesus had to say before you shitpost.

>>13016188
>>13016193
reads to me like the atheist in this thread offers a humorous obligation to literature regularly peddled on this board, and the religicuck came in to defend it while ironically exposing blatant ignorance of the subject matter at hand. nobody looks angry to me other than homer simpson

>>13016237
put on a trip OP so I can filter you

>>13016237
k hope you like asian /lit/ mr trilby tipper

>>13016212
do you advocate reading something like strauss?>>13016247
i wish i could filter out all the bible threads. its too bad, because i really am interested in discussion surrounding the text. its pretty much impossible here though because the discussion is always polluted by religious people who don't know anything about it

>>13016267
DAMN NIGGA HE POPPIN OFF

>>13016280
see? you really can't. fucking idiots

>>13016132
Banana one.

>>13015985
This

cool story bro

>>13015952
Why does every christian get so emotional when discussing christianity?

I studied the Torah as part of my curriculum (Jew). I'm not a believer but those are pretty interesting stories and I greatly enjoyed them. If you're serious about it then you should do comparative reading with older Mesopotamian myths like the Enuma Elish, it's also historical to a degree in some places so you can compare ancient sources if you don't believe me. Its historicity is more so apparent in Kings I & II, it's also the most interesting part of the entire bible imho (if you like game of thrones this should be right up your alley).

There's also a more secret, esoteric reading to the bible, and I'm not talking about schizo mysticism or kabbalah. You need to remember that these stories were molded and compiled in an environment of mystery schools (Egypt, the Levant, Babylon, etc.), a time during which any spiritual figure was most likely part of one or more of these. But you see, Jews (and really any religion at the end of the day) have this pretense of canonical purity, so they can neither admit nor allow for the chance of profane/pagan/heretical themes being expressed in the bible, let alone by their prophets. So you really gotta read between the lines.

I had this epiphany when I read a booklet (like 50 pages) titled "The Alchemical Keys to Masonic Ritual" by some 33rd degree Freemason. Nevermind what the book's specifically about, but it mentions "raised salt" which is a magical substance that can heal anything. When I read that passage I had a flashback to Bible class when we went over the prophet Elisha (you'll read about him in Kings 2) who cleansed a spring by using "salt". There are three dumb ways in which you can interpret it: (1) regular salt has healing properties, and Elisha just dumped salt into the spring - that's what our teacher told us - which is fucking stupid because you'll need barrels for that and he doesn't have that, (2) be a fedora and gloss over it as just another silly, nonsensical tidbit in a wacky book, (3) it was regular salt but the spring was still cleansed because godidit. The fourth and only intelligent way to interpret it is as an esoteric ritual, as alchemy - I hope you understand that the point isn't that alchemy is real, the historicity of this event doesn't matter, what's important is that the mystery cult influences are recognized.

also Jesus was an alchemist

>>13016312
>generate discussion for me!
>look I'm pissed off!

>>13016346
Post nose and ring

>>13016362
>ring
kippa?

>>13016362
>Philadelphia
>Finland doesn't exist
>The sky is alive
Lots of gold in here.

>>13016346
cool. is there something i can read which pertains directly to this theory? i found it interesting that exodus mentions sorcerers and magic in competition with the miracles moses was able to perform

>>13016346
>But you see, Jews (and really any religion at the end of the day) have this pretense of canonical purity, so they can neither admit nor allow for the chance of profane/pagan/heretical themes being expressed in the bible, let alone by their prophets. So you really gotta read between the lines.
do you mean to suggest that the bible is a sort of fable for something else entirely? or that the christian jewish god is an umbrella abstraction for a number of pegan religions throughout these regions?

>>13015952
>get one and a half books into the Bible
>time to post about it

>>13016488
i only posted about genesis, boss. did you like it?

>>13016442
>is there something i can read which pertains directly to this theory?
Probably, but I never looked into that so can't help sorry. That thing about Elisha was just something I happened to notice and I have no way to actually prove it, but it seems very likely. I'm sure if you read carefully you'll find lots of references to more esoteric teachings.

My intuition tells me you gotta look at some academic publishing about the bible, it's non-canonical books (book of jasher for example), and the mystery religions of the ancient Near East, and in the same time check out non-academic fellows like Eliade Mircea. Maybe even ask for help from esoteric pros. High ranking Freemasons usually know a thing or two, but I can tell you from personal experience it's a hit or miss kind of thing and you might end up hearing about aliens instead of a dialogue on ancient religion).

Spoiler, Jesus dies, and the apocalypse will never can possibly happan

Yeah bro, I'm sorry but the bible was actually written before novels were invented so it might not fit your taste.

>>13016170
what did he say that made you think that?

>>13016483
>or that the christian jewish god is an umbrella abstraction for a number of pegan religions throughout these regions?
Well that's pretty obvious if you're a non-believer, but that's not what I meant. The point is that the Jewish religion was molded in such an environment that it would be preposterous to suggest that it is some "pure" religious book, so even if it were the case that the Jewish religion (in terms of commandments, theology, etc.) is completely original and had no external influences, the characters themselves in the bible, in particular holy men, were involved with the surrounding mystery cults.

I mean, look at the Greeks, most philosophers were part of some such cult. Many of them were educated in Egypt or Babylon. It's absurd to assume that the wise men of the bible lived in some bubble and that the only times they rubbed shoulders with pagans was when they defended their faith. But of course, this would be very bad for any religion that is trying to establish itself as THE religion and compile its canon. Consequently - and this is what I believe - over the first millennium BC, the scribes, priests et cetera erased all memory of this direct interfaith dialogue between the Hebrew religion and the mystery cults except when it came to instances of confrontation. This is why I said you gotta read between the lines, it's those strange, random and forgettable stories where you find the influence most strikingly.

>>13016556
Are you a high level Freemason?

>>13016563
Nah lol

>>13016011
Sometimes a cigarette is just a cigarette, Homer. But I don't think this time it is.

>>13016556
>>13016512
>>13016346
this is exactly the kind of companion analysis im interested in reading alongside the bible. i would be super interested to read a version that is annotated in such a way. i was planning on reading the mahabharata afterwards, but maybe ill do something more like what you're suggesting here with comparative mesopotamian literature

>>13016346
>Nevermind what the book's specifically about, but it mentions "raised salt"
In hindsight I should probably have clarified. The book is about the symbolism behind the symbolism in Freemasonry - the first layer is metaphorical symbolism of the builder, but the deeper layer is one that alludes to a more ancient tradition all the way back to the bible and the mystery schools. Hence why I connected the "raised salt" with the salt that Elisha used, because that event makes no sense whatsoever in any context other than one referencing the alchemical tradition and therefore the Near East mystery schools.

>>13015952
Just start with the new testament. Most modern Christians pay little attention to the old testament anyway. And that is the part of the book they will most likely have actually read.

The old testament is only really interesting if you are into history and mythology. A lot of the stories in there are based on earlier Mesopotamian myths and they have been warped quite a lot in their meaning throughout the millennia. They become more interesting when you look at them as artifacts of cultural evolution, rather than supposedly factual descriptions of actual events.

>>13015952
>cuck
That word doesn't mean what you think it means.

>>13016638
>Most modern Christians pay little attention to the old testament anyway
God, I wish this were true.

>>13016910
>T. S. Eliot's preface to The Need for Roots suggests that Weil might be regarded as a modern-day Marcionite,[58] due to her virtually wholesale rejection of the Old Testament and her overall distaste for the Judaism that was technically hers by birth.
>Si elle rejette l'Ancien Testament, c'est parce qu'elle n'y reconnaît pas la marque de l'Esprit saint, l'histoire des Hébreux, d'Israël et des juifs étant souillée à ses yeux par l'idolâtrie et les exterminations sur ordre de YHWH, Dieu tout-puissant et cruel

fuck you jesus pussy bitch

>>13016346
>silly nonsensical tidbit in a wacky book
>or it is esoteric ritual alchemy but alchemy isn't real but what's important is that my anthropological thesis is recognized
real brainlet take why am i not surprised.

>>13015952
the Old Testament is the foundation of Judaism and consequently Christianity. it is creation myth, tribal chronicle, book of laws, and book of prophecy all in one. there are many theological ideas in the New Testament that were inherited and melded with Greek philosophy and Old Testament prophecy. reading Genesis and Exodus is just the first step.

>>13016054
>read the king james version
>the version that is based of terrible manuscripts that differ in so many regards to the more original manuscripts

>>13015952
>halfway through exodus
newfag
Get through Numbers and then we'll talk

>>13016442
not that guy but there's a scholastic argument that each of the plagues is a symbolic battle with the major egyptian gods of the time - the darkness as a defeat of Ra, et cetera.

>>13015985
How to read scripture:
Begin by convincing yourself it is the literal word of God.
Realize then that any imperfection you perceive is actually just you perceiving an imperfection in yourself.
Continue until you are convinced that the Bible is the greatest thing you have ever read.

Fucking atheists just need more persistence.

>>13016344
Because Christianity is emotional, belief is emotional, the concept of god is emotional (god is love, etc.), the bible is glazed through uncritically to read the feel good passages (emotion), the church and its hymns and post-church socializing is emotional, religion is emotion - in particular Christianity and Islām. Any critical conversations outside of apologies and the standard quest of "finding god" is doomed from the start, people believe for their lives to have meaning, to lessen the fear of death by believing they're going to a "good" place, to see loved ones again, to believe in justice that is gone from this world (people being punished in hell for "evil"), etc. once you realize this it's not strange for religious people, Christians in particular, to react with anger or negative emotions, the outsider will see this as dragging the prisoner from Plato's cave, but the believer sees it as trying to remove the coping mechanisms, the happy thoughts, the good feelings and will fight you to the death to keep believing in spite of what is said.

>>13015952
>ESV
Brainlet detected.

>>13018971
>real brainlet take why am i not surprised.
You haven't actually explained why my "anthropological thesis" is wrong. I've justified myself in the posts below the one you're reply to.

>>13019031
>bible
>word of Him

>>13016054
You among many retards in this thread shock me.

Hurr durr, OP you are retarded - you read ESV, what a fag?

OP know that ESV is very good - it is quite old as it's essentially RSV ( 70 years old by now ) - re-edited in amount of around 9% to correct some things.

If you wanted a more modern approach try LEB and NRSV and obviously - annotated bible are useless, you should draw near a Mesopotamian context book not some theologians comments.

Also you write like you're a illiterate that used some pictograms oh how to type on a keyboard.

I once listened genesis... Jesus, he knows me.

>>13016362
>Moon built by Aliens
pretty good but it's no Iapetus Space Station

>>13016328
Lulz I’m glad that shit is still how people think of TJ

>>13015985
>>13016054
Different translations or editions aren't going to change the massive amounts of incest and cuckolding contained in the Bible. Go check the KJV, it's in there too.