/lit/ - Literature

peterson is a man of the people so naturally they will cheer him on, zizek is elitist bourgeoisie

Peterson just got exposed as a dilettante, and a poor one at that.

1) Anyone who has taken a 100 level course on Marx could have given as good or better of a rundown and critique of the Communist Manifesto that Peterson gave.
2) No serious Marxist reads the meme pamphlet Marx wrote for uneducated workers, it's not an academic source, it's a propaganda piece.
3) Peterson, although claiming to have read and understood at least a modicum of Zizek's works, was not able to produce a single meaningful critique of his theory, even going so far as to be impressed with Zizek's take on Christianity
3a) Peterson is in many ways a scholar of religion, in particular Judeo-Christianity; he also critiques Marxism for being an athiest doctrine which rejects these principles. So if Peterson had done so much as read Zizek's wikipedia article, let alone an article on him in an encyclopedia of philosophy, let alone read one of his books on Christianity, he would have known this position and not been impressed by it. It means he didn't even watch Pervert's Guide to Ideology. Incredible lack of research.
4) Peterson did not stick to his position that Marxism was bad, instead retreating to a simple repetition of his individualism (at one point admitting that the heart of the individualism leads to the position that you must do what is best for the community anyways "good enough for you/your family isn't enough" which basically recasts JP's position as individually enlightened Marxism)
5) Peterson hasn't read Critique of the Gotha program which is shorter than the Manifesto and much more important (reminder this intellectual has been arguing against the evils of Marx for decades and hasn't even read him in any meaningful sense since he was 18).
6) By the end, Peterson wasn't even able to formulate an argument against the form of Marxism which Zizek promotes. His only point to the debate which had any relevance was to point out Capitalism's productive force, a fact that he also admits Marx agrees with and discusses at length in the Manifesto.
7) Peterson being pressed on and subsequently not able to name a single postmodern neomarxist needs no explication.

Peterson has been exposed as someone who has no real education (or perhaps intellectual interest) in political theory. I am actually amazed there are people who watched this debate and think Peterson managed even the bare minimum of understanding of both Marxist theory and the historical realities of capitalist dynamics.

I really wonder why greek philosophers never sold out

Why? Because you’re such a pathetic contrarian that the sounds of people approving of something makes you so upset you have to stop watching?

>>12980467
Can you shut the fuck up about marxism. no one gives a shit.

>>12980483
t. one of the autists who yells out like he's at a football game

>>12980454
But you can't even see the audience, shouldn't affect watching at all.

>Begin watching the Peterson vs. Zizek debate since it's the hottest thing on /lit/
>The host introduces the speakers
>The audience can't go 5 seconds without clapping over every goddamn achievement each speaker has made
>Peterson gives his introductory statement
>He says "I haven't read any of Zizek's books since there are so many of them. So, I just read the Communist Manifesto instead."
>Facepalm at Peterson's unabashed brainletism
Please, tell me it gets better.

>>12980454
>Slavoj Zizek, two PhD-
CLAPCLAPCLAPCLAPCLAPCLAPCLAPCLAPCLAPCLAPCLAP
>...he-
CLAPCLAPCLAPCLAPCLAPCLAPCLAPCLAPCLAPCLAPCLAPCLAPCLAPCLAPCLAPCLAPCLAPCLAP

>>12980473
They did, that's like half of what Socrates and Plato were in opposition to

>>12980632
30 mins of Peterson stumbling through the Manifesto, surprisingly coherent speech by Zizek, then an hour and a half of Zizek teaching Peterson what Marxism is

Now that both marxism and the alt-right is officially destroyed, where do I start with Hegel?

>>12980473
thats where the word sophism comes from basically. bunch of greek philosophers that started selling their knowledge and changing it to be more practical

>>12980654
>30 mins of Peterson stumbling through the Manifesto
Yeah. That was unbearable an I stopped watching much before he had finished. I felt bad for the paying attendance.

>>12980654
>surprisingly coherent speech by Zizek
I mean, by the standards of Peterson stumbling through half-understood Marx, I guess it was coherent. By any objective standards it was pretty rambling and off point, though.

>>12980746
I take it you don't often listen to Zizek give speeches

>>12980632
Peterson embarrases himself over that first 30 mins but that's pretty much the end of the cringe moments, next is ZIzek doing a good talk but more importantly is that it really isn't what Peterson was expecting at all, he gets pretty much astonished by the nature of a true intellectual debate and by the fact that it doesn't consists in attacking each other with shitty rants, which is what he's being doing all this time against ""leftist people""". From here on the debate is pretty good actually, and Peterson gets more and more fascinated by Zizek complexity.

>>12980454
ironic because it's the opposite with the will self debate, he destroys zizek but the audience still supports him

i think they like a loser

>>12980746

He could have humiliated Peterson ANYTIME so bad that he would have probably sudoku'd right on the spot, but he couldn't find it in his heart to murder the proxy-daddy of several thousand lonely entitled misogynists. He treated Peterson just like a man of his caliber should treat him : like a child.

>>12980454
Guy Debord was right

>>12980765
Probably true, but humiliating someone through revealing their astonishing ignorance does nothing to advance thought through well considered dialectic.

>fat out of shape commie couldn't be bothered to even put on a clean shirt.
>notes written on a wrinkled piece of paper
>sounds like hes swallowing cum every time he opens his fat mouth.

>>12980777
teaching a child is a pretty low level of dialectic but Peterson needed it

Liking Zizek is easy, liking his retarded marxist fanboys is the challenge.

>>12980454
lol Jeeps aren't used to hearing anything but the sounds of head nodding when daddy's talking

>>12980783
Is it all appearances for you?

>>12980826
>doesn't know he is one

>>12980467
BTFO of the year.

>>12981004
Holy- I guess I'm #TeamZizek now!

>>12980454
Zizekfaggots were also unendurable during the threads. Yes Zizek made Peterson look like a brainlet, but the worst thing about this debate was it gives faggy cock-sucking Zizek posters a massive smug boost.

>>12981044

Our daddy is stronger than your daddy!

>>12981044
the zizek fanboys are very obviously reddit zoomers who like him because he's a charismatic slavic meme man

>>12981044
>hangs out in threads for the Zizek/Peterson debate where Zizek bends Peterson over and seizes his means of reproduction
>durr why are there smug zizek fans in here
literal grug

>>12980632
It does. Peterson's first 30 min really were abysmal, and then it gets sort of decent, Žižek wrecks him a bit in a relaxed and fun way, they agree a bit in some places (shitting on SJWs), Žiž calls Peterson an idiot and Peterson almost sucks Žiž's dick, they bury the war axe and it's over.

I still can't believe Zizek is 70 years old, but I'm still pretty convinced 90% of what he says is bullshit

>>12981058
>Zizek bends Peterson over and seizes his means of reproduction
See? A prime faggy cock-sucking Zizek post right here. Can't just accept the result everyone expected, it has to be some paternal homoerotic rape fantasy.

>>12981064
Yeah it totally is. The problem is Peterson knows nothing of economics. He basically gave up within the first 1 minute of his second talk.

>>12981085
>reeee
Hahahahahahahaha How The Fuck Is Being Butthurt Over Zizekfags Real Hahahaha Nigga Just Walk Away From The Screen Like Nigga Close Your Eyes Haha

>>12981085
>paternal
freudian slip

>>12981044
Why the hell is this what people are talking about? Shouldn't the debate especially with how it concluded be an invitation to continue discussion? Why can people only talk through empty identities they've chosen the side of?

>>12981146
I'm pretty sure I meant to say that.

>>12980454
I didn't even notice them

>>12980454
That's the point of these spectacles, a contest to see who can get the audience to make the most noise in order to prove who "won."
These guys push pop philosophy, designed to appeal to and entertain the masses.

>>12980464
Thats pretty much both sides of the audience, both retards for the same reasons but pointed at each other

>>12981059
>Peterson's first 30 min really were abysmal
Abysmal for faggot Marxists who don't like the reality of his ideas being pointed out

>>12981331
No they were genuinely embarrassing m8. I am permanently assblasted about Marxists but the guy didn't even fucking read Capital

If you're going to argue against Marxism, then look at what Marx said would happen and argue that it hasn't and will not happen. Don't skim the Communist Manifesto and then stumble over a bunch of conservative boomer talking points

>>12981331
https://twitter.com/HOSTAGEKlLLER/status/1119367322379202562

>>12981261
>>12981158
The posts here read like youtube ufc highlight comment secctions

i hope they completed there sentences

>>12980454
I've noticed this in recent years, particularly on political debates. Go back to the 80s and crowds were dead silent, maybe with the occasional holler at an exceptionally witty statement. Now you can't go five minutes without the crowd injecting themselves into the discussion. This is only a bad thing, as it transforms a theoretically non-partisan exchange of ideas into another front of the never-ending political-cultural war.

>>12981530
We're fucked. I am so tempted to load up my shotgun, put the barrel in my mouth, and pull the trigger.

>>12981004
Funny meme but there is nothing good about being a post modern nihilistic statist faggot faggot.

>>12981530
Oh dear, the people are waking up to the spectacle instead of being passive consumers

I don't think /lit/ understands. Jordan Peterson got BTFO by William Lane Craig.

>>12981530
I was so hopeful at the end of the debate where they showed so much civility and respect for each other. I thought their fans would follow their lead. At least for a few days in the minimum. I just don't know.

>>12980464
The clap-o-meter favored Zizek

>>12981617
you assume it was kindness, but Zizek was just acting like one of those kids who realizes he's bullying a depressive so he switches to trying to make him feel better by the end so he doesn't feel so bad if the kid decides hang himself with a belt

>>12981530
>non-partisan exchange of ideas
Doesn't exist. The purpose of event like this is to argue for a position. Is that what makes Peterson BTFOing leftists so enthralling? Is that why all the political views o these people just so happen to align with the watchin patterns of their favorite mental strokers?

Its common practice to deny political significance or identity as a partisan actor, or its just as common to "explore ideas in a neutral or objective way." That's only a tactic, pretty much exclusive to the right, used to cover ones unpopular or unpalatable ideas. You people have no spine and there is no limit to how low you're willing to sink in your slithering out of this.

>>12981261
>>12981542
Peterson fans using Debords term when it suits them. LOL

>>12981745
>Peterson fans using Debords term when it suits them. LOL
I think Peterson is a bigger fraud than Zizek though. Both of them make Debord look like an intellectual though.

>>12980654
>>12980675
>>12981059
Is it okay if I skip Peterson's 30 minute intro argument?

>>12980467
kind of agree

im sad for how peterson looked walking out of it,

i think he is a force for good of how odious he is, now he is discredited in the eyes of many (rightly discredited as a political theorist, wrongly discredited as a really good psychologist)

>>12981745
>Doesn't exist.

>>12981918
Example?

>>12981951
Any adult conversation between two individuals that are interested in discerning what the truth of the world is and not simply propelling their chosen camps prestige
I know in the new meme world we're in this sounds very alien but it has happened on some occasions

>>12980454
>>12980454
Peterson should have stacked the front row with hecklers and blow horns. It would have made the whole talk more objective.

>>12980486
This. Every time I see one of these "You just don't understand Marxism properly" posts I just skim past it. The only people that care whether anyone understood Marxism properly are Marxists, and they only care because they want to argue with you (and each other) because they think every definition other than their own is wrong.

>>12980454
It was fun to watch. Pointless, but fun.

What is the point of identifying yourself with some political ideology that you have no ability to implement in any meaningful way? Why do people call themselves communists, or aracho-whatevers, or any of that other bullshit they come up with? I really don't get it. It's like they're trying to define part of their identity by some abstract political formula, but why? What do you get out of that? So you think some political formula is more sensible than other one, great. Who fucking cares?

>>12982083
Most people, and by most I mean all, don't agree 100% with the ideology. But the thing is, ideologies fully rationally fleshed out on paper have little to no contradictions in and of themselves, but since people can't agree wholeheartedly with everything the ideology stands for, they end up holding contradictory beliefs and end up having their own interpretations along with a schizophrenic and morally corrupt rationale, especially if they think the ideology can be improved or refined.

>>12980467
Butterfly, is that you?

>>12982189
Butterdyke doesn't post replies that aren't over a line long dumb anime poster

>>12980757
This is the first time Peterson has actually encountered an opponent operating in good faith since the pronoun scandal.

>>12981645
Zizek did so many alpha moves here, calling him an idiot and getting Peets to grovel for his scraps

>>12981875
yeah, he just repeats his usual talking points

>>12980454
Where's that webm where Peterson says something about a violent revolution and the crowd cheers? Wtf was that

>>12982083
People aren't fully woke to the fact that we are micro particles of no value in the current system. The whole charade is an ego trip to build an identity and meaning in their lives.

On that matter revolutionaries are even more pathetic than pragmatists, since at leas the pragmatist could even amount to the 0.001% of change in his country, whereas the revolutionary does 0.

>>12982225
Yeah well maybe this will inspire Peterson to get a bit more sophisticated politically.

Honestly the burshwazee or whatever it's called sounds pretty based

>>12980757
Fucking this

>>12980757
Thats what falling in love is like sometimes lol

>>12982270
>Wtf was that
Chapo Traphouse flouride zombies

>>12980783

heh

>>12982270
>>12982306
Found the video
https://youtu.be/Zwunz4uOEHo
wtf

>>12981004
>>12982326
As a German I am disappointed by Zizek's thinking our toilet design lacks utility.
*sniff*

>>12980454
Even The Ziz addressed this:
https://youtu.be/XnkINkeejnM

>>12980454
starting to watch it now, it gets cringey every minute.

>>12980643
Why the fuck they didn't tell the audience to shut the fuck up?

The introduction felt more like a combat sports intro,

>WE HAVE IN OUR LEFT CORNER......
.....
...
....
>WE HAVE IN OUR RIGHT CORNER....
....
...
...

>chimps Chimping

>>12982363

wow fucking cucked

>>12982031
>I just skim past it
Just like you skim past the truth, eh buddy?

>>12982306
the joke is that christman normally has a low opinion about online tankies who say this kind of dumb maoist shit

>>12981530
>Now you can't go five minutes without the crowd injecting themselves into the discussion
Shows where social media has brought us

>>12981536
Aknowledging that you are a nihilist is the first step of the solution.
Positivists in denial are beyond salvation.

>>12980483
>Video, audio, and flash photography is prohibited and we have a strict zero tolerance policy for any heckling or disruptions.
>Audience loudly cheers, whistles, and claps

>>12980454
jijek was visibly disgusted by their clapping and shrieking

>>12981875
fucking Yes and

>>12984299
Any man would be.
It was contemptible.
They were like trained chimps.