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Is this the Chomsky vs Foucault of the 21st century?
this will be such a mess *sniff*
I'm gay btw
>>12963316no
stream down for anyone else?
>first words out of Peterson's mouth were about ticket pricesJesus
HERE WE GOOOOOOOOOOO
>>12963404https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGRC5AA1wF0
>>12963316Made this just for you, zizekstak.
Peterson is off to a terrible start
did zizek go yet?
>>12963477Peterson first>>12963464He's doing fine
>>12963477no
>>12963464He seems nervous, or perhaps that’s just the way he normally speaks.
>>12963464>he already dropped "human nature"
>>12963464he started right off the bat with excuses
philosophy is deadthe public intellectual is deadart is deadanime is deadcan't believe a clown like peterson is taken seriously by anyone. the 21st century is garbage.
>>12963483>10 minutes in and Peterson is literally beating a dead horseThis is already over. He should've actually read Zizek
I really want to skip Peterson and listen papa Zizek give his talk already.
>>12963502Even if you're not an essentialist, you have to admit that humans have an inherent nature
>>12963517I forgot that Memerson is very boring to listen to
Oh god. It’s clear that Peterson has never read Marx. He’s way out of his element
>>12963536He read the communist manifesto, commiefag.
>>12963530Define human nature
>>12963316zizek is fucking scary. i didnt realize how nervous i would be for peterson and im not even a fan of the dumb old lobster. like im actually shaking for peterson
EVERY SINGLE FORM OF SUFFERING I EXPERIENCE IS BECAUSE I AM A POORFAGI CAN'T GET A GF BECAUSE I LIVE WITH MY PARENTS AND CAN'T AFFORD FOOD OR A GYM MEMBERSHIPFUCK OFF PETERSON
>the people that laughIt was Dasha and Anna, wasn't it?
>>12963536He's honestly way more of a pseud than I thought. Not memeing. I would figure he would at least familiarize himself before starting this.
peterson is obviously nervous or something. im not a fan but dont really hate him and have watched many videos of his lectures and talks. he's fumbling.also what he's saying is kind of bullshit. zizek is going to rip him on this. or he would if this was a debate. its clear peterson hasnt read capital at all, only the communist manifesto.those audience members are subhuman though. this isnt the space to laugh at someone else speaking.
>>12963564Bunch of behavioral tendencies distributed on bell curves in the population. Humans are a lot like chimpanzees with some added on stuff
>503 Service Temporarily UnavailableI CANT ACCESSI PAID 15 FUCKING SHEKELS WHAT THE FUCK PETERFAG
zizek is going to BTFO this fag within three sentences
>>12963583yeah.. this is actually embarassing. how will zizek even respond to this
>>12963561Yeah, das kapital is more comprehensive. You can’t understabd Marxism by just reading the manifesto.
Peterson making some good points, but his chain of thought doesn't seem very directed.I think he's nervous
>>12963564Just because you can only approximate a definition doesn't discredit the entire notion
>>12963561the communist manifesto is like 80 pages long and was meant as a brochure brainlet. capital is what he should have read to speak about marxism and capital is three volumes 800 pages each
>>12963584>peterson is obviously nervous or something.It really humanizes him for me. He's stripped of some of the arrogance he seems to have on the JRE podcast and in lectures
>>12963594>I PAID 15 FUCKING SHEKELS WHAT THE FUCK PETERFAGuse the youtube link in the thread
>>12963583yeah i don't hate peterson but its clear that he's out of his element
>>12963599It is simply not reasonable that everybody should have to read the fucking slog that is Capital just to refute a retarded 150 year old ideology whose followers treat it like a religion while it never produces anything of value
>kulaks were peasants
>>12963578>BlackedOnly in Jewish made fantasy porn
>>12963622They weren't aristocrats
>>12963605im not that guy and i agree with you but i dont think peterson reading capital would have changed his arguments. he still would have been doing this whole>human nature chaos vs order jungschtick regardless i thinkim just curious to see how zizek responds to it but i already lost interest in this debate
>>12963602I suppose it's just "common sense", right?
>>12963584>or somethingI'm starting to thinking he's ill, he's purposely avoiding the lights.
>>12963621weak bait
>>12963621how about a wikipedia summary? that should be enough to get past his clear misunderstanding of marxism
>The cheers for bloody revolution
>I just stumbled across the idea of dictatorship of the proletariatWell I guess it's fine to first hear about it when you're 60
>>12963630because ukraine wasn't a rich nation by any means, but they weren't peasants
>>12963571If he didn't start crying immediately after admitting to having only read the communist manifesto for the first time in 30 some years as preparation to this debate, he probably could have done better
>>12963579I hope they don't get themselves kicked out
why the americlapping?
>>12963636No it's observation. For example almost all humans show empathy in a pretty similar way, with some variation.
PETERSON IS FUCKING RETARD HOLY SHIIIIT, THE MANIFESTO IS A FUCKING PROPAGANDA PAMPHLET, IT'S IRRELEVANT WTF IS HE DOING??????HE'S SETTING HIMSELF UP TO BE ABSOLUTELY DESTROYED.
>>12963636Come on, it's based on principles observed from anthropological and zoological studies
>>12963621isnt volume 1 the one you should readpeterson didnt even go through cliff notes tho
>>12963659zizek looks like he's already done with the lobsters shit
>Barber, what kind of talk do you want to give>I was thinking about critiquing the formulations of a movement at it's manifesto incardnation, which has been critiqued for 71 years now.JUST
>>12963605The fact that its 800 * 3 pages long already screams elitism. So much for the working class huh?
>>12963672How so?
>>12963621Aww is the book too long for you?
jesus what is up with this manhow can you do this to yourselfno one made him do this. he called zizek outand its clear he knows NOTHING about what marx was talking about. he doesnt know what class relations are nor what dictatorship of the proletariat even is.MORE IMPORTANTLY though we see the problem in the debate sphere in micro herethe right doesnt know what its talking about. its bullshit. they are totally cluelessBUT the left are like animals. yes they see the right for what they are, but instead of being worthwhile human individuals, they fail halfway through and laugh and jeer and give the right the stereotypes it needs to continue its boogeymanning
>>12963690You haven't read Capital
jbp had like five minutes worth of material and they hit him with an uppercut when he realized he had half an hour
My God, he's a true brainlet. He truly doesn't understand marxism. His points about "dictatorship of the proletariat" are ABSOLUTELY insane.
>cheering allowed in a debate
>>12963696seething
It's clear Peterson is only appealing to liberals.He's not even trying to make arguments to Marxist.
>>12963690It's more that it doesn't contain enough of value to justify the time it takes to read it
>>12963667He's even saying this himself. I really don't understand what the fuck he's doing at the moment. This is some high school shit.
>>12963696peterson is not 'the right'
dude when are they gonna let zizek talk I can't watch this brainlet take anymore the guys is shaking in his boots
>>12963513The 20th century got Foucault and Chomsky, and we get these fucking pseud buffoons. Why does it all have to be this way? Like, simultaneously soul-crushingly depressing, but also vapid and fucking banal and boring? People in the early 1900s believed we'd be living in outer space and struggling to find enough hobbies and creative pursuits to fill all of the free time we'd have. This fucking clown world is all we get?
STOP CLAPPING YOU FUCKING BRAINLETS
>>12963316chomsky v foucault wasn't that adversarial. It was a nice debate. Peterson v zizek is a shameless spectacle
>>12963737We have Nick Land and Bruno Latour
>>12963737Mostly because of jews
>>12963714This, why doesnt peterson tell them to STOP,he is their dad afterall
ABSOLUTELY ABSURD
I had faith that this exchange would be at least interesting but Peterson is setting himself up to be absolutely fucking cratered.gg ez
he just took a turn and decided to go with the clean your room shtick
OH NO NO NO NO Peterson has only read the manifesto, he knows nothing about marxism. Holy shit, this is a big yikes. It makes me so uncomfortable.
>"marx said this">marx didn't actually say itwhy does he keep doing this
>mistaking labor as an economic category as doing jobslmao just end this already
>>12963689Every evopsych idea is based on some variation of "all observable societies behave this particular way, regardless of how they're organized" or "our closest related animal relatives behave in these particular ways"
Oh my god this is incredible. Zizek is about to wipe the floor with this man
>>12963760>Holy shit, this is a big yikes. It makes me so uncomfortable.zoomers talk like such faggots
>>12963714this is not a proper debate.it's entertainment in the lowest form for zoomers
>/lit/cucks getting triggered over their bullshit beliefs having a backlight shone on it MARX IS SUCH A FUCKING HOE (I LOVE IT)
>>12963737zizek isent a total brainlet just a product of his environment but not to undermine him or anything he has alot of original ideas he'll be in the western canon for philosophy in the future no doubt
why did zizek puss out and demand that the debate be as soft as possible
this is itpeterson is going to snap tonight
did i stop reading to watch this shit
fucking hell I am a fucking brainlet and I read the capital like 4 years ago and even I know this guy is a fucking idiot
>>12963787look at how the crowd is behaving, it would be even worse
>>12963730i would day he is. the right broadly speaking is on the side of tradition heirarchy and elitism. during the french revolution the "right" supported the king, and the left the people. things have changed but i still would say the right is a defender of conservatism which peterson in many respects he is, much more than zizek
you guys i cut my finger on a razor and now it's red and my whole hand feels warm am i gonna get sepsis?
>>12963737I bet you are one those faggots that claim everything after the French revolution is better than the past. well, one thing that the French revolution achived was the giving voice to the stupid.
As dumb as Jordan Peterson is, he sure makes twitch chat seem like a bunch of mouth breathing retards in comparison.
I hate marxism as much as the next guy but this is just embarrassing.
i hate how he keeps doing the "marxists say.." bs, I want to hear the actual marxist perspective from zizek
>>12963786You should probably learn what a fucking comma is before calling people brainlets
>20 minutes of jordan peterson talkingi thought this was a debate?
>>12963787what did he ask for
peterson's stuff is really obvious at this point because he has the obvious position. i think it will get better.
Jesus Christ, Peterson is like 30 years younger than Zizek and still can't carry a coherent thought to conclusion. This is just sad
Cringing @ peterson rn
>>12963767And how does this help define human nature?
I just need a live reaction camera on zizek
How off base must Peterson be to make fucking Zizek look like a good orator
Peterson is about to cry. He is unravelling in front of thousands of people and Zizek doesn't even need to open his mouth. Amazin'.
>>12963786>he'll be in the western canon for philosophy in the future no doubtDoubtful, Zizek is literally just one of a line of very similar forgotten philosophers that everybody thought would revive Marxism.
lmao honestly didn't think he was this much of a fraud. steer away from marxism jordan and retain some dignity
>>12963799Peterson is the ultimate "confused liberal"
>>12963799The actual right advocate for stuff like monarchy, fascism, racial supremacism, patriarchy, etc. They aren't really allowed on debates like this
>>12963790you and me man. I was actually enjoying my read getting through alot of it too...but if I dont watch this shit I won't understand the shit posts that'll cover this board for weeks to come
he mentioned Dostojevski.....>>12963802POGGERS warm arm! jerk off with it!
>>12963686fuck off, i read the first volume of capital when i was a poor 17 year old, and if i can do it then peterson has absolutely no excuse
Damn peterson is retarded.
>burzwazee
It seems like Peterson is trying to talk about colors while using geometrical descriptive terms. He is making so many category mistakes, being so naive, showing his ignorance so thoroughly... I even feel sorry for the guy.
>>12963316Stop posting about this garbage. This is too low-brow even for /pol/.
Why did he do this to himself? He's just floundering up there. It's one thing to disagree on what's good/bad. But he's not even engaging with the text/theory he said he would.How many levels of bad faith does he need to go?
>>12963824Human nature evolved being the implication brainlet
this is just awful to listen to
The Age of Peterson is at its end.
Zizek is actually a force. Fuck every wannabe graduate student who teases him for sniffling and doing too many appearances
WHEN DOES HE GET TO HAPPINESS?
>>12963747chomsky vs foucault was barely a conversation, much less a debate. It was like watching a bad date. They just totally misunderstood one another. I think poor translation and an extremely awkward moderator doomed it from the start. The only reason it's remembered so fondly is because every college kid is trained to idolize chomsky and foucault and "holy shit bro did you know that they debated one time?!!"As for this debate, Peterson has clearly not done his reading. First of all, he's critiquing Marx using the communist manifesto. Which is a political pamphlet, not a serious philosophical treatise like capital. So he's off to a bad start. And then he just completely misunderstands what Marx is arguing. He falls back on the stawman of "Marx thinks all proletariat are good and all bourgeoisie are bad and that's why he wants dictatorship of the proletariat!" and that is not at all a fair or good critique. It's just not what Marx is arguing, at all. It's the kind of failure to create a dialogue with an author that I might expect from a freshman at a state college. But I was hoping from more from this.
>>12963851>>12963831>>12963830He's just had some cider man, ease up on him.
>>12963864Peterson is addressing the manifesto and hasn't engaged with any modern marxist-influenced thought, meanwhile Zizek can't admit he's not really a marxist at all lol
It's almost like Marx saw communism as something that inevitably arises at the end stage of capitalism
How long does he have left?
N BOMB DROPPED
>>12963790yup already regretting it, too late now anyways
>>12963517Why? He already got the cash for the tickets.
peterson is absolutely boring. he has no interesting or original ideas or takes at all. the communist manifesto? does he even know its a pamphlet? what the fuck is he talking about
>>12963824Because A, humans are animals. And B, if a particular set of behaviors transcends all societies throughout all time, then it's likely psychologically inherent
>>12963857What's an implication brainlet?
This is so embarrassing to watch. I almost feel bad for the fucker!
>>12963878Not to even talk about the fact that he calls the idea of dialectic materialism an axioma in Marxist thinking.
>tfw zizek didnt even say a word and has already won
i think zizek is going to have a hard time """"debating"""" him based on the fact that i dont think anyone has any clue what peterson is saying... even peterson
>when you realize you are big fat fraud getting exposed in front of a billion zoomers
When we get to see some small naturals?
>>12963841yep pretty much, i cant stop watching the trainwreck tho
Have you guys never seen a debate before? opening arguments are always like this, they're always the worse and hardest position to be in.
>>12963883Peterson is choking. That's all zoomers care.
>>12963805>seem like
"Marxism does not take account of nature" - PetersonBitch, read Engels Dialectics of Nature.
i never watched a peterson lecture before, is he usually so vapid? he literally sounds like a 15 year old "libertarian" repeating some Le Epic Gommunism BTFO reddit post
>malevolenceKek
>>12963903Jesus why bother even posting these garbage replies
what the fuck sort of debate is thiswhy are they speaking for so long
>>12963909i have a clue what he is saying, why are you putting your fingers in your ears and screaming? youre not a fucking retard are you?
In awe at the size of this lad's brain
>Marx's actual call to top the creation of desired society is meaningless>Thousands of pages of dialectical meandering is important.
>>12963909Zizek said upfront that he'll address the Peterson audience, not him
>Watching peterson roast himself
>>12963899>it's likely psychologically inherentWhy psychologically?
>>12963932Oxford Style you new world mongrel
>>12963926no this is probably the worst he's even been
>>12963918he didnt even read the fucking work he's supposed to be debating
>>12963937>/pol/Alright, brainlet. Time to leave
>>12963926he's a psychologist, not his field of expertise, not sure why he's even here>>12963932hello brainlet, ever see an iq^2 debate?
>>12963926he is usually this vapid. he appeals to unread people and he tells them what they want to hear.
>He makes arguments my dad would make, but with facts.literally just thought this. not even one of his "children," just high.
3 minutes left
>>12963932>what the fuck sort of debate is thisit's not really a debate, zizek said in some interview they would take turns speaking about the subject rather than engaging in a debate. basically it's a cash grab
>>12963946Because psychology is what regulates behavior, stop posting, you are incredibly fucking stupid
>they produce WEALTH
just having the debate in the back as I read this thread gives me goosebumps and a huge impending sense of doom. Its like the hairs the rise on the back of your neck when your about to see an accident, unstoppable and in slow motion.
how do I fast forward though peterson talking? He won't shut the fuck up
>>12963955you dont even have to agree with him to understand what he is saying child
What is relative poverty?
>>12963944>>12963950You guys are dumb.He's appealing to normies and these are the kind of arguments that will convince them.
>>12963718sure, brainlet. Go read some self help books.
>>12963963shits about to get real
>>12963561> this is what lobsterfags actually believeThe communist manifesto is a pamphlet. It's 30 pages long. It briefly describes communism, addresses some criticisms of communism, not by refuting the arguments but by offering alternatives - again, this isn't a rigorous philosophical treatise, it's a pamphlet. It then describes various forms of socialism that Marx finds deficient and offers similarly brief criticisms of them. That's it. It's only useful as an accessible introduction. For example, Marx's ideas about alienation are entirely absent from it. IIRC historical materialism is not really explained either.
Psuedo-intellectuals hating Pederson. Nothing new here.
i was expecting jordy to get btfo but this is just sad
>>12963955The fuck is that a polpost you stupid cunt
TIME FOR THE BULL TO ENTER
>People laughing at petersonI have genuinely never seen this before in a so called intellectual debate
>>12963992People don't get poor under capitalism, truly a woke take.
>>12963982Less of a problem than absolute poverty
>>12963946Psychology and physiology are often one and the same
>get 2 psychoanalysts to debate>they talk about political theory at a basic level instead of psychoanalysiszzzzzzzz
Petersen critiques the Manifesto ... Why not take on The Gotha Program, Grundrisse or Capital? Or even "The Jewish question".
>>12963840NRx is not "The Right"
>>12963909I mean, how can you debate someone on a topic they clearly know nothing about? Peterson has not even gotten his head around the foundations of marxism. So he can't even really critique it; he just fundamentally doesn't know what it is. He needs to actually understand Marx's logic if he's going to discuss the logic errors it contains.
what i despise about both of them is that they both end up at the same place: bourgeois managerialism
Pls stop crowd, I beg you
>>12963988You don't read anything at all so Im not sure why you're posturing here, you're dumber than the boomer clown on stage right now
HE BOUTA DO ITZIZEK BTFOing THE TRANNY COMMIES
>>12963767sure they do...
>>12963316Zizek can't even speak English. Wtf is this trash
>>12963584>this isnt the space to laugh at someone else speaking.Why? It's a public performance put on by two pseuds. It's exactly the space to laugh and jeer.
alright he isnt wrong with these stats
>>12964004did you even hear what he said?
baby boy Peterson about to get BTFO
out of boozegoing to bed
uh, zizek isn't looking that good either, the fuck?
>>12964023The right is so excluded from modern dialectic as to almost not existthis is the center against the left
>>12964023I didn't say they were. The term 'right' originated in the French revolution and referred to Monarchists
hearing zizek talk is so freaky, wow.
>>12963983>You guys are dumb.they are not dumb, they just appeal to you friendo.
>>12964048At least he's talking about happiness
The problem with zizek is that i can't understand him
>echo russian accentoh man
Zizek isn’t too great of a public speaker. Is his primary language English? I know nothing about him so excuse my ignorance
>>12964048Psychoanalysis rots the mind.
Zizek already mopping the floor with Petersen.
>>12964051okay retard
the madman is going against academia
wtf why is zizek sucking too what is this debate lmfaoi feel like blackwood sterilized the whole thing somehow
>>12964048yeah wtf, he never reads his speeches like this? what on earth is goin on with this debate?
>>12963316Yes
>>12964075He's right get bent faggot
>brainlet peterson watching zizek destroy his entire argument piece by piece,drooling,most likely day dreaming in his thought was well.
>>12963316>listening to Zizek slur for a half hour after listening to Peterson shakily rattles off statistics for a half hour why did i think this was going to be an enjoyable experience
>people think China isn't communistchina is the only country that actually understands marxism
>>12964072nigga does it sound like his primary language is english?zizek knows about 7 different languages
>>12964072no lol
>>12964073Explain
>>12964054yes you did
>no sniffingno cocaineno intelligence
>>12963926im not a fan but peterson does some fairly interesting cultural analsys and some psychoanalytical takes which are good.he shouldve stuck with that. i dunno what he was thinking with this economic/historical/philosophical route. he's shown himself to have about the same grounding in the subjects as the average western 20 year old and thats badzizek is basically going to steal all of his fans and peterson will be shown for what he is. zizek is much more clear, charming, and interesting in all aspects.he very literally is going to get cucked. peterson maybe even unknowingly wanted this to happen. he prepped the zizek bvll and now zizek will take what is his. the approval of hundreds of virgin teens and early 20 something males
>>12964072He's an awful speaker but still manages to appear more collected than Peterson does damn
zizek sounding like daffy duck
>>12964088China is based and the West will slowly adopt their model over the next century
>>12963833Hes not gonna revive anything but if bullshit like "simulacra and simulation" is wester canon at this point I doubt zizek wont be. At the other hand, Peterson will go down in history as the self help midwit shepperd that he is
>>12964096>The actual right advocate for stuff like monarchy, fascism, racial supremacism, patriarchy,Youre inexcusably fucking retarded
MIGApedes on suicide watch
>Peterson speaks entirely extemporaneously >Zizek can only read off a piece of paperI hope Zizek does better during the rebuttals
>>12964078I'm unironically starting to suspect that post about them being massive friends behind the scenes was true, they both look like they're suffering from a massive hangover after going on a bar crawl together.
>>12964083>why don't people take my fascist bullshit seriously :(lol kys
>>12964088galaxy brain opinion here
This is a retarded debate, Jordan is not an economicists neither is Zizek but at least he is sticking to philosophy it seems.
>Zizek starts schilling trump
>>12964107china is a shithole
>>12964105Makes sense seeing as Peterson is kermit
>>12964048zizek is looking fine? he sounds totally normal
>>12964100>clearlol>charminglmao>interestingone out of three
>they're both blowing it>fanboys clap like monkeys whenever their leader says something they agree withBlunder of the century
imagine retards paid their money for this shitPeterson is really the god of all brainlets, the perfect money extraction machine
>cheering and clappingfuck ameriplebs desu
>zizek is just reading a piece of paperhe doesnt give a shit about this, doesnt he
>>12964108thanks for proving my point?
>>12964120Go back to sucking dicks you genetic trash
>>12964078he'll probably start improvising after opening statements. It's pretty common to write down an actual speech for an opening statement, because it (and sometimes closing remarks) are the only parts of the debate you have 100% control over. Everything else is reactive.
>>12964134"Why is Zizek so slurpy"from the YouTube comments lmao
>>12964133he's struggling to read off a paper two inches away from his face.
>>12963890yea....its a shit show>witchhouse posteri keep seeing you on every post
>Trump is the ultimate Post-Modern PresidentDamn, this was pretty good.
heh...........
>>12964088unironically true
Zizek sounds based desu, what's his political stance?
>>12964024He understands it completely, which is why Marx and Zizek are BTFO.
>>12964139>europoor gets basic geography wrongim really surprised desu
>>12964148That's not Nrx, that's a list of far right concerns, you have no fucking clue what you're talking about
>>12964149cry harder you silly child
>>12964161communist
>>12964161postmodern neo-marxist
>>12963578Be better than you are. Stop playing victim. Take extreme ownership. Been where you are. The way out is easy if you aren't a cuck
LIBTARDS DESTROYED
>>12964161left wing contrarianism
>>12964162>hasn't read marx>btfos him anywaysmy god peterson is an absolute genius
>>12964158It's just a statement.
>>12964158That was a meme back in 2016, it's so fucking out of date in 2019.
>>12964165you're a worthless sack of shit
>>12964156he literally always looks like that.if anything im surprised he isnt sniffing and tugging at his shirt more.
>>12964164far right is not 'the right'should we start taking antifa seriously, too?
>>12964109Sartre and Althusser are still read today.
What the fuck is Zizek talking about.
Zizek isn't even sniffing.
>>12964161Communist with crypto Stalinist characteristics
>>12964011Being poor in capitalism is being a king in Communism. Either way, better to be a poor freeman than a slave
>>12964177Literally more profound than anything Peterson said in his abbreviated Prager U. lecture.
>snail talk>snail talk>snail talk
>>12964175So he's a centrist?
I can't understand what he's saying, I'm literally shaking rn
he uses this jealous husband analogy all the time but it's genuinely true
Zizek is so fucking cringy. Nothing but word salad and tangents, he can't stick to the point.
Zizek is evil
BASED ZIZEK
Uhhh is Zizek okay?
>>12964181must have taken a lot of balls to post something like that anonymously on the internet
>>12964192Another galaxy brain opinion right here, holy shit /lit/ is filled with brainlets
Zizek did his cuck qoute
>>12964193not really, you just agree with it.
>>12964198Peterson is a right-wing neo-Marxist pretending to be a left-wing orthodox Marxist and fooling nobody.
>>12964176I can btfo Marx too:>dialectics
>>12964189>>12964199>>12964202first time listening to zizek hunh?
>of courshe they were notNice save fgt
This is pretty boring desu. You fucks were shilling this for months and this is what we get? what a load of shit.
>>12964211
Memerson is screwed
>>12964207you know you're complete trash, you look like shit and your mind is garbage
>>12964190That's the power of ultra-instinct
>>12963316holy shit this is literally Zizek reeling in as much academic liberal attention as he can just to shit on them. he's barely even regarding Peterson's talking points. all of his "examples" are cheap shots at american liberals.i'm sure there's some pro-marxist shit on that pre-written script but he definitely just showed up to talk shit and collect a check
someone predicted when the debate got announced that zizek would be lost in metaphysics and peterson would be arguing over trivial stuff....whoever that was, was soo right...
>>12964222>NO U!based npc
>>12964219No, but he's being particularly incoherent in this.
>>12963749I'm quite conflicted over thinkers like them.>>12963751Can't say I disagree. All of this began with the advent of Marxism in the first place.>>12963786He makes some good points that I very much enjoy (the inherent stupidity of moral platitudes, for example) but defending Marxism is a lost cause to anyone with an ounce of integrity.>>12963803How did you arrive at that conclusion from the content of my post? Personally I'm of the belief that democracy is a cancer and a symptom of the terminal decline of civilizations; it is an indicator of their complacence and self-satisfaction.
>scapegoat theory of antisemitismyikers
>>12964202What he's saying is way more coherent than Peterson's opening
Zizek can't even speak English. How is Pederson supposed to debate this unintelligible slurpy kunt
>>12964218but thats his point
Zizek just dabbed on Peterson's jealous buckold fanboys.Epic.
>>12964224whatever helps you cope
>>12964221the meme is how outmatched zizek is
>zizek mentioned cultural marxism before peterson
>>12964161>go back to Hegel and see what happens + when in doubt, tongue in cheek Stalinism
>>12964228Zizek is making my head spinPeterson put me to sleep
Zizek killing it
>>12964229
>>12964240>buckold>buckomy sides
>hitler made up anti-semitism from nothing and used it to mind control germans for decadeswoah.......so this is the power of hegellian dialectic...........
>>12964159underrated post
This is kind of retarded Peterson isn't really alt right at all they're both addressing irrelevancies, ie the alt right and unaltered marxism
>>12964241nothing will help you cope though, youll just get uglier, fatter, dumber, and more alone, you fucking slime
>bringing up and referencing countless writers and philosophers>uhh so I read the communist manifesto guysyikes, who thought that putting a right wing youtube intellectual against Zizek was a good idea
This is going exactly how I expected lmao.
Slavoj "cucking is actually a good thing' Zizek
I posted this some days ago>Zizek will go off on a tangent and we'll forget what the debate was even about. Is this happening? I'm not watching the debate
>>12964237His English is perfect, to be honest. He has a good vocabulary and makes absolutely no grammatical mistakes. He has an odd accent, but, so what?
Zizek: "We are in this mess because of the Jews."
i dont know why i didnt realize this sooner, but zizek is sort of impotent here for the exact opposite reason that peterson is.these people straight up dont even know what zizek is talking about. even his simplest material is like 2 tiers above what they are normally used to hearing.
>>12964228remember that post too;found it for you:>>/lit/thread/S12684451#p12684460
>>12964211I'm just here for the debate because I appreciate both the snail and the frog. Redpill me on /lit/
What is Zizek even talking about
>>12964251he's all over the place
>>12964240>I totally want to raise someone else's kid!
>>12964264yeah little bit
>>12964268Maybe, but he's not saying anything complicated here.
>external causes can't existimagine telling somebody with sepsis they aren't sick because of foreign bacteria zizek is retarded
>seriously its 2019>not hiring 10/10 public speakers and just giving them your speech to read cmon guys like are we not living in a media era?
>>12964237You just can't understand his accent.
>>12964253I generally think Zizek is pretty intelligent but he has a few absolutely retarded takes
>>12964261All you guys being pathological about it is just proving Lacan right
>>12963316Zizek literally made argumentum ad hitlerum within 5 minutes. He's an overrated galaxybrain
>>12964264He's currently saying that the jews made trump into a puppet-king to control protestant boomersa bit off topic but pretty based desu
>>12964213I think I've heard all of Zizek's stories and talking points already. Hoping it gets better/more heated after the opening.
>>12964227>he's barely even regarding Peterson's talking points. This part of the debate isn't for that, you idiot.
>>12964267>this was the plan all along
>>12964232No, he's literally never made any sense to anyone that hasn't read the collected works of marx, lacan, althusser, and his old advisor alain on top of having read all of the western philosophical canonzizek really just doesnt give a shit about being anything but an "obscurantist"
the depth of this zizek speech makes peterson sound like the brainlet youtuber he is
>>12964119link to post?
Either I'm going crazy or I've heard this exact same lecture from Zizek before.
>>12964277It's Zizek, what do you expect
>>12963316Petersonfags on suicide watch
>>12964257>analyzing a piece that is of close relevance to the subject of the debate.>heres why happiness is uhhhhh orange man, as any *sniff* philsopohers view envy*sniff*
>>12964253If you removed anti-semitism and racism from /pol/ who else would they be able to blame?
>>12964268desu he's dumbed down his vocabulary and usual topics to make it more accesible
this format is fucking retarded rofl, two people talking about two different things completely, and then I assume they have to address each other's points? How can anyone "win" when there are two parallel debates going on at once.
Guys i'm a brainlet wtf is Zizek saying?
>egoism
>>12964290If something occurs 10% of the time, then worrying about it isn't pathological
>>12964268I like zizek but you sound like a retarded faggot, get his spotted dick out of your mouth he's not some 300iq monster and once you cut through the jargon (which I assume he will try to keep to a minimum) academia isn't very complicated
>>12964308>analyzing a piece that is of close relevance to the subject of the debatlol
>should we drop egalitarianism>nobluepilled
>>12964303>spouting a bunch of incoherent words with no sense between them is deep>this is what zizekfags actually believe
>That moment when you subconsciously set up your own destruction and cuckholdry by challenging an actual academic to a debate, ruining your pop philosophy career and moralsThis is some Freudian irony
>>12964305He reuses a lot of his saying a lot
Zizek's accent is assfucking my brain, Jesus Christ.
WHAT DOES ANYTHING THEIR DISCUSSING HAVE TO DO WITH HAPPINESS....im so lost
Zizek came out strong, but now he's lost and seems to be struggling on reading his own text
>>12964314Capitalism caused SJWs is the long and short of it
>>12964227Obviously he's doing it to appeal to peterson's audience.
why are commies obsessed with equality
>>12964314He's not saying anything. It's literally word salad.
>>12964314Zizek makes me feel like a brianlet too
>>12964314he's making the case that while many people are unhappy egalitarianism is not to blame
>>12964303Zizek is just spouting nonsensical garbage. "lol nihilism everything that isn't degenerate is pathological"
>>12964314It's continental man, but nod your head and accuse others of not getting it. Re-listen later
>debaters taking about compeltely different things>WOW x is totally eviscerating y right nowcheerleaders are embarassing
>>12964314Basically: "The Left is doing all the right things wrong, the right never tried to do the right thing and doing it better than I would've hoped."
>>12964268correct
>>12964308>>analyzing a piece that is of close relevance to the subject of the debate.The communist manifesto is just a political pamphlet, he obviously hasn't read any serious Marxist works like Capital. Peterson fundamentally misunderstands several crucial Marxist principles and makes his critiques in an incredibly simplistic way.
>>12964302Out of all continental philosophers, Zizek probably goes the furthest to make himself understood and accessible.
>>12963316what the FUCK am I watching? they both come off as borderline retarded, can't believe you fucks shilled me into this.
>>12964247i just can't understand what hes saying with his accent when hes saying its so quickly its hard to grip.
>>12964331>>12964314Or rather capitalism caused both SJWs and alt-right
>>12964314religion = ideologyideology makes people do bad thingssocialism enables personal happinessthe progressive stack is retarded
>>12964305You probably did, both read and heard him. It's just the self-plagiarism making itself apparent.
>>12964016>Psychology and physiology are often one and the sameDo you have any example of this?
>>12964324Zizek is a pop philosopher. he talks in cricle
>>12964323>I cant comprehend philosophy >Hes not talking in brainlet self help lingo>tfw you have to stop and think about stuff instead of being fed with "wash your penis" instructions along woth a whole pre made ideology
we all knew this but know we know for sure the giant gulf between peterson and zizekthis is why we hate peterson. he isnt a threat to anything. hes literally a brainlet that offers nothing but acts like hes some sort of genius. hes obviously a fraud and this is made clear when in the prescence of someone like zizek.it doesnt have to be zizek, it could be graham harmon or anyone else. peterson is not in this class and cannot compete. he needs to stay in his lane and write self help books if thats what he wants but nothing else
Came late, WTF is happeningWhy is he reading a fucking script? Is this a debate or a essay presentation? How will Peterson respond this word salad?
>>12964314pure ideology, basically
>this means somethingHOTTEST TAKE
>capitalism equalizes us too much
I unironically respected both them before this, I respect neither of them now, this was a mistake.
THEY'RE BOTH INSUFFERABLE AHHHHH
>>12964348>Zizek probably goes the furthest to make himself understood and accessibleuwot, this couldn't be further from the truth? do you just make these claims assuming no one has read modern continential philosophy?graham harmon is 150000x more accessible and zizek did a talk with him last year
>>12964318this
zizek dabbing on le lobster mani'll happily root for the grumpy trash man (opposition to idpol and all)
Feverishly googling every name Zizek drops
anyone else getting a massive headache from this marxist faggot going into deep epistemnology is a foreign accent from peterson's brainlet talk is dizzying
>>12964370Opening statements
SHOTS FIRED
>>12964268Zizek isn't deep at all. it's just "truth is a lie, here's my preferred relativism, do what makes you feeeel goood"
both of them are shaking maybe the room is really cold
>>12964370zizek admitted to being so scared of peterson that he demanded a monologue format it's gay as fuck
>>12964373We were all fools to mock the lobster sign.
>>12964362>stop and think>in a live discussionhow about you stop and think, and also read the thread, because the people ITT who can understand him (i.e. not you) all agree that he's sounding pretty scattered, so why don't you stop relying on your own puny brain and just take your cue from the crowd like the cow you are
>biologicaly termed sexualityfucking hack
is anyone even paying attention now?
>>12964370They are essentially just both doing a lecture and aren't even talking about the same subject.
This shit is over, they are on totally different levels.
>>12964369>we
>>12964369i agree, but zizek sucks so far. this is pure trash and slick french platitude, as well as all too easy paradoxes
My head is spinning wtf
I want Zizek to read me a bedtime story!
Memerson is a brainlet, but I feel bad for him. How the fuck is he even gonna reply to this mess?
>>12964400kys retard penis goes into vagina thats basic biological determinism
Uh oh he's about to trigger the christcucks
>mentions eliot's idea that new art changes past art instead of borgesthis guy kinda sucks
>>12964369yes. I literally want every relevant philosophy academic from all parts of the political spectrum to debate this mindless fraud so that he and his fans can be exposed for their intellectual weakness
>>12964412Penis is vagina is pathological
>fake expertsPETERSON CALLED OUT
>>12964382not for your reason but yes I have a headache from zizek already and the debates just started.....
>>12964369>imagine actually believing this just so you can feel smart for liking the sniffman
>>12964360Philosophy is inherently pop
hes talking too fast bros
>>12964421'no'
imagine being such a pseud you fall for Zizeks "I love evil" nonsense
>>12964400it is, anon, unless something horrible happens like molestation your sexuality is set from the go
"Your academic career is like french cuisine" What a put-down
>>12964397not him but i can understand him fine. but im familiar with zizek, all of this is stuff he's said before. if youre not familiar with philosophy this will sound like nonsense because you cant just passively accept it like peterson. you have to actively pay attention and think about what hes saying or it will go over your head.
>>12964381Do you not know how to take a screenshot?
>>12964405That's the thing though, all Zizek needs to do is hold a small lecture exploring the outlined themes even vaguelly. If he does just that he wins by default considering Peterson's insane rambling earlier.
>any decent student of theology can put things better than christdamn.
What is he saying has to be kept apart? I can't understand his accent.
>>12964429Zizek is to a philosopher as bill nye is to a scientist.
>>12964388yeah you just filtered an epistemology speech through your midwit mediocre mind and this is what came out. I hope you all look in the mirror after this debate and realize how mediocre, stupid and superficial your brain is
>>12964447>That's the thing though, aidgaf it's boring to watch>>12964450brainlet's first kierkegaard
>>12964450He's right
>>12964453lol
>>12964439Then why do my interests change and recede so much over time?
>>12964359https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXv44YL_Gio
>capitalism wonHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOH
MODS STICKY THIS BREADMODS MODS MODSGIB STICKY AAAAAAAAAAaAAaaaAA
> FUCK i didn't know we were supposed to read kierkegaard before this debate!
>>12963522Care to retract that statement?
>>12964453Zizek is way more academic than Bill Nye. Get out of here with that false equivalence
>>12964453Bill Nye is an engineer larping as a scientist. Zizek is a philosopher through and through, who has made contributions to the field and written about it for decades.
i should be reading right but now I have to watch a brainlet take vs a take I can't understand....sigh
>there is a problem with CAPITALISM here
>>12964463they dont, you unstable fuck
this is worse than the first Peterson x Harris debate on the podcast
Zizek could've won the debate, but he hasn't developed on anything and is now looking lost on stage.
This guy is not on JBP's level. His thinking is too shallow. Granted, I have only seen this intro. Will check out some of his other lectures and talks. But so far, he is not that good.
makes speech as esoteric as possible
>TRUMP BADWhy are liberals so cringe?
wtf why is zizek BTFOing tankies
>>12964453Did this thread get linked on /pol/ or peterson reddit forum? You know that Zizek wrote over thirty books in the field, right brainlet?
>>12964453dumbest post in this thread
>>12964478>Zizek is a philosopher through and throughis that supposed to be good or
>>12964327Because the organisers know that the audience consists of 20 something brainlets who think that papa peterson is going to make them happy?
>>12964484But they do
fuken geddit zizek
>communism will solve global warmingand here we go with the magic juice
I'm not paying attention to being with, but I have no idea how zizek is linking all the crap he's talking about to a major point. Why are we talking about capitain planet now?
is there gonna be Q&A period or something?
>>12964466This is unironically a lot more interesting than the debate
Either I'm not half as much of a brainlet as I thought or is it just that one Anon samefagging with the whole "Zizek too smart"?
>all that yapping about le epic zizek gonna save us from big bad peterson>easy platitudes adorned with paradoxes and other cheap rhetorical tricks
>>12964501but he's still right :)
how long does this go for?
>>12964503when it comes to dunking on pseuds masquerading as philosophers, yes
this isn't a debate lol
>>12964490>Will check out some of his other lectures and talks. But so far, he is not that good.He's going over the same points that he always does.
>>12963786Bloom will be dead soon and there will be no one left in academia to defend the Canon.
>>12964486Hes just rambling like he usually does. Not sure what anyone expected.
>>12964336> why do people not want to be dominated by other peopleDunno bud
is he trying to cover centuries of philosophy on this single debate? i wish people could stick to more niche topics
>>12964500All (modern) philosophers are to philosophy as Bill Nye is to science
>>12964456I rejected the basis for his worldview right off the bat, that there is no truth. If you aren't a gaytheist Zizek just sounds like a rambling shill for modernism, making obviously arbitrary "refutations" of all it's failings. This is obviously word vomit regardless, he's so incoherent because he's erratically going to fucking nowhere with his speech
How much until it's on Youtube?
fuckin zizek falling for capitalist propaganda about socialism
>>12964511Because capitalists will kill the planet
Zizek going full transhumanist
dave rubin would have wiped the floor with zizek
>>12964466Thanks but I'm not sure I understand. Do you mean to say that the body of the cucumbers is the same thing as the fear the cats experience?
>>12964514Nah, Zizek is shitting on Peterson but he's going over Petersonite's heads cause he doesn't know how to dumb his shit down.
Why is it that whenever you question these "Pererstein is a brainlet lol" posters they have never read Maps of Meaning and have absolutely zero exposure to the concept of metaphysical analysis of the affective behavioral valences which constitute the schema which we use to discriminate value between desires and concepts?I suspect the vast majority of you think he's oversimplifying out of lack of intelligence, and not, rather competently, impressing a complex idea through simple articulated allegorical and syllogistic logic.Also you're all fucking retarded brainlet posers.
>>12964481we are gonna be alright bro. I was gonna finish the enquiry but I got bewitched by this meme.
>>12964514the latter, anon, you're probably more of a brainlet than you suspectI'm shitposting and listening at the same time and not struggling to keep up, he's not going very deep
>>12964525>rambling>reading a script ????????
>>12964538There’s a link
>>12964533ok brainlet
>>12964538https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Q46AoR80M4&ab_channel=PyramidofControl
>>12964533Not Judith Butler, that's OC philosophyget at me
https://www.strawpoll.me/17849560
>>12964539>propaganda
>>12964543Holy fuck he's ascending for real.
>>12964543Zizek has gone over his time
>>12964538https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGRC5AA1wF0
Zizek dropping the phrase "homophobic homophobia".
>>12964554His thoughts ramble when he writes.
>george sorosY I K E S
Zizek is an ambassador of philosophy. All his books are essentially slam poetry and everyone shits on him because he never offers any solutions to the problems he makes up that are actually solutions.
im about to call it quits guys, this is shit
>>12964563>no "nobody" optionI voted memerson just to nudge the dial toward the center
S-O-R-O-S
typical leftist talking points. WHy is this guy special again?
>>12964533>nooouuu stuff is bad!!!! Giv me heidegger n nitzschee only!!!Thanks gramps
gonna go wack it to hentai this shit is not entertaining in the least bit with the way the debate is orientated and neither is it intellectually challenging either. why the fuck is their an orator if their isent even a proper conflicting debate?what the fuck is he on the stage for? What they needed was quiet crowd and a regular formal debate not this brainlet shit.
wtf I thought zizek was supposed to be better than Peter
>>12964563>who is winningThe organizer or whoever make money of this
>>12964575>t. i cant follow ahhh duuude, i gotta tell you something you might not like it
>>12964544ahAHHAHAhahAHAHAHHAhahAHA
So he's basically agreeing with Moldbug and saying we already live in communist societies.
>>12964592based
>>12964539He lived in Yugoslavia, man.
>>12964568lol this is just so based and epic xD
>>12964594this 2bqhfamalamadingdong
>>12964546I'm saying that the fear those house cats are experiencing is inherent. Cats don't have a culture, not do they experience snakes on a regular basis, yet they know to fear their shape on an unconscious level.
In summation: ACCELERATIONIST GANG
>>12964533ok, mr. peterson
>>12964593He is. You only need basic point to refute Memerson.
>>12964161He's the world's worst communist.
can't believe so many of you have trouble following zizek. it's the same old stuff, ideology is everywhere and by its very nature it absorbs antagonistic elements in society i.e. identity poltics, protectionism blah, blah
>*sniff*>apocalypse>and so on*sniff*
CHYNA
>>12964608LOL
>>12964589he never fucking shuts up so he gets away with handwaving important aspects of the opposition. he makes huge claims about massive discussions every few seconds.
>>12964514Zizekfags like to think Zizek is smart because it validates their own mediocre intellectualism. Zizek has a lot of knowledge and he's indeed smart but people overrated him way too much based on all his muddled knowledge.
>>12964497Rightoids are too stupid to understand something they've only been told once so we have to repeat it until even brainlets like you understand that.
>Don't cheer me!>*crowd cheers*Zizek having his Howard Beale moment
OH NO NO NO
>>12964614If you had never heard Zizek before and didn't follow much academic philosophy I can see how this would sound like gibberish
JP admitting defeat
Is Zizek going full accelarationist on us
https://www.strawpoll.me/17849465/rhonk
>>12964626what happened to your russian conspiracy again
>>12964627chad crowd
>>12964627Honestly this was Zizek’s most based moment tonight
/lit/ should be embarrassed about this debate, this is exactly is why people hate philosophy and no longer watch debates.
>>12964635full doomer
Why is JayzTwoCents arguing with Zizek?
>>12964614It's way to much to discuss, because he skips right past the fundamental beliefs necessary for not finding the mentality nonsensical or malicious.
My takeaway from the debate so far is that Zizek's crown is at least as sycophantic as peterson's. even zizek had to call them out on it, lmao
HE'S GOT NOTHING
>>12964627Americans are subhuman desu. Completly unable to engage with something without turning it into a spectacle.
>>12964592yea...what were they thinking? Seriously they can't even target the same points and come to any conclusions like this...its pointless
>>12964623whats that got to do with peterson being the zero point of philosophy
>JP literally admiting he is a brainlet and that Zizek is mostly right
peterson is being a lot more candid this time around when he's more in his comfort zone
>>12964634cringe
Zizek is dominating Peterson so incredibly hard Jezus fucking Christ. I even feel bad at this moment.
>>12964648>no longer
>>12964644based retard
Joe Rogan would probably do better than Peterson desu
Peterson sounds like he just became blackpilled after those 30 minutes
>>12964314
Peterson is so boring and has nothing to say.
>>12964666what debate are you watching satan?
>>12964623Pretty much. Before the current political climate he was pretty clearly regarded as something of a buffoon and not taken seriously at all. He wrote some books but doesn't really provide much in the way of original contributions to philosophy. He certainly won't be remembered a century from now for his ideas. He is only given more capital on the left now because hes a useful counter to people like Peterson. Not that Peterson is good. Peterson is a complete huckster fraud.
>>12964657Sorry to interrupt your obsession but this is not taking place in America
This is so hard to watch.
>Peterson's argument is literally that boomer Churchill quote
>>12964608"who is hegel?"
>>12964654Respected Supreme Leader Slavoj does NOT have a sycophantic crowd.
Peterson is a great psychologist. He's just a shit philosopher and shit economist. He got popular for rightfully calling out the bullshit culture in his university but he went wrong by not staying in his lane
>>12964666I don't even like Zizek or a fair chunk of what he said but holy shit, the rape is real.
>>12964681lost
>>12964536Sure... Might take longer for some people to "get" philosophy. But there's an option for people born with the curse of being a midwit to feel smarter: and that is pop psychology. Keep doing that. Academics is not for everyone. Clean your room, wash your penis etc ;)
>>12964592Based.
>>12964681kek
>>12964592literally this. this is so shit
Fuck lads, I really like petersons work but zizek makes a lot of sense.What are some of his works I should read?
>>12964662>zizek spends half an hour blathering about basic historical analysis and mediocre lite-accelerationist critiques of modern culture>memerson also engages in basic historical analysis and mediocre lite-traditionalist critiques of modern culture
>>12964686ah yes ofcourse that one churchill quote
>>12964668Based daddy mueller going to save us still
>>12964681upvote
>>12964666>Zizek said more stuff so he wins!Peterson is trying to be down to earth and Zizek went all over the place going over grand philosophical questions on the nature of reality and just claiming his interpretation was right because next point
>>12964419who mentioned that?
>>12964471
it's so hard to listen to peterstein hope his fame dies today
>zizek hasnt made any arguments for marxism>proceeds to make arguments for marxism
>>12964684Every country in the world belongs to america
>>12964684What is Canada other than an extension of the United States?
>>12964711based
>>12964689What would freud have to say about these obsessives hmm?
>>12963316>both "opponents" emphasize that they don't want to butt heads so much as move towards an agreement towards solving global problems20 bucks says JP and Zizek get drinks after this. this is the comfiest "debate" i've ever seen
Should I make a new thread or will someone else?
>>12964684Canada is in America
>>12964666Satan has said it
>>12964711my sides=in orbit
>>12964695Except all his points are negated when you consider he has no alternative whatever as Peterson just pointed out
>>12964704>liking self help books
>>12964711Kek
>>12964699This isn't a debate, I'm not rooting for pepe peterson, i was just disgusted at zizeks sophistry. it wasn't even eloquent.
>>12964713>pointing out problems with capitalism = marxismthey're not even the only two options out there
>>12964694this
>>12964723Go ahead friend.
>>12964712it only just beginsreddit front page tomorrow: Peterstein won!
>>12964715Canada is a sort of special tumor attached to both the US and the UK
>>12964707wtf I love Israel now?
>>12964714>>12964715>>12964724>be retarded>I was only meming xDbased retards
>>12964723/lit/ gets really slow post page 4-5.no need to rush it
why even debate about communism vs capitalism? Its not like the current economic system is going to change because of debates. Also there isn't a single country that is absolute capitalist/communist. Literally every nation has a mixed economy.
>>12964704Watch The Pervert's Guide to Ideology and also his talks on YouTube. Someone might rec some books but this is the easiest way.
>>12964711kierkegaard seems like he'd be one of the three philosophers peterson actually has read
>>12964713>Zizek spent his 30 minutes insulting academia and american liberals>Peterson is left with nothing to debate and starts debating himselfhour well spent
>>12964704read?baby steps. watch his videos first.
>>12964715Its our hat.
>>12964730I've never completed his books, just watched his lectures on youtube. His books don't go as much into detail as his lectures do.
so if i'm understanding this the debate isn't really working because >peterson is more anti-marxism than he is pro-capitalism>zizek is more ant-capitalism than he is pro-marxism>both assume the other is defending something rather than attacking
>>12964536>>12964388dude... im sorry... your dumb as shit
>>12964747This wasn't supposed to be a communism vs capitalism debate but they're both doing so fucking bad they're just reading scripts prepared for other debates.
>>12964728The absolute state of benison fags lmaoo
>>12964710zizek, the borges parody version is much cleverer
>>12964747why debate anything, then>every nation has a mixed economydon't tell me you think communism is when the state does things
>>12964592playing Imouto Paradise 2it aborded the theme of the supposed debate better than this shit
>I heard criticism of Capitalism but no support for MarxismBecause that's what Marxism is? Why is Peterson so retarded.
>>12964760>actually gaining something from a self help gurus lectures.I hope you're not older than 19
>>12964761People were calling it months ago that this will go horribly wrong because they agree with each other more than they disagree, which Peterson just admitted.
>>12964761this is a pretty good summary
>>12964766they're both shit so far, sorry i blasphemed your god zizek
>>12964776He's read the communist manifesto but forgot to tackle the entire wikipedia page on communism as well.
y'all if you want to get a competent persons opinion of all this you should check out Mark Blyth.
>>12964737>>>>12964775
>>12964666Satan is right, Peterson's response to Zizek is basically "Zizek is right, capitalism sucks... b-but it's our best option.... w-why didn't Zizek mention Marxism...?" He seriously fucked up when he decided to focus on The Communist Manifesto instead of Zizek.
zizek staring a hole into the side of petersons head it's gonna kick off any minute now boys
>>12964776Have you read maps of meaning?
>>12964776>right wing anti-capitalists are marxists
>>12964776It's possible to critique capitalism outside of Marxism
>>12964728All his points can be negated by just saying "I disagree" because everything he says rests on the agreement that everything just springs from the human mind and you have to agree with his interpretation of which parts are good or bad which he outlines very simplistic criteria for determining, it's essentially bad feelings I feel are bad and aren't justified in having a place the traditional perspective claims they do.
>>12964724not yet it isn't
>muhfuggen money>muhfuggen poverty>muhfuggen economicsliterally who fucking cares?
>>12964776>>12964735also filtered
Judeo Christian
>>12964778His personality psychology lectures are pretty good, they're not self help just basic psychology.
>>12964707https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-russia-barr/barr-releases-muellers-report-and-feels-the-heat-idUSKCN1RV0PU> Mueller stopped short of concluding that Trump had committed a crime, but did not exonerate him of wrongdoing either, leaving Barr or Congress the option to take action against the Republican president. > h-he's not as bad as we thought he was!Daddy's not going to jail but he's still a massive scumbag.
>>12964776>being this retardedname checks out
>>12964806North America
>>12964776>An entire form of society can be boiled down to the mere opposition of some other ideology which has been irrelevant for like 100 years nowwhy are Marxists so fucking stupid bros
Peterson just hit a shallowest point, if Zizek could porpose something he'd win right here, but he has no proposals only his old platitudes
>>12964814stop being redundant
This is a pretty comfy debate
>>12964806America isn't even a country, anon.
>>12964778>self help guruZizek doesn't do self help
>>12964592same
>>12964776wow this is dumb
>>12964786>Benison fags renouncing their own moral champion in the face of embarassmentThe classic integrity of neo liberal intamellecchuals
Peterson embarrassed himself, at least Zizek prepared himself to be zizek. peterson didn't even tell anyone to clean their room.
>>12964822>Mueller stopped short of concluding that Trump had committed a crime, but did not exonerate him of wrongdoing eitherThere's no evidence and I can't do anything, but I can't rule it out conclusively or prove a negativewow really great post buddy lol you guys are so boring
>>12964804yeah but Marxism is all about criticizing capitalism. it's a sith like ideology. support is hate
>>12964838the only good part of the debate so far is the shitposting happening here
>>12964800>>12964801>>12964804>>12964830Which board did this thread get linked on? Where are these brainlets coming from?
>>12964815The fact that so many people in these threads think that what Peterson has done; crafted a psychology course so easy to follow and understand that even brainlet retards like the ones flooding these threads can understand, when the course is based around jungian psychoanalysis (which is insanely complex and deep, entire organizations exist to transcribe and articulate his work) is a testament to his scholarly excellence.
>>12964844He should; he dresses up like he's fighting hobos for clothes
>>12964844>taking what I said as literalwhy are you on this board. Go to pols debate thread.
zizek is just going back to what plato said about how excess and democracy create unhappiness
>>12964849>Benison fags renouncing their own moral championhe's a greedy shill, stop coping you look gay as fuck
now this is the zizek we all love
>>12964801>>12964804>>12964825>>12964847That's not what I said. I'm just saying that whole Marxist analysis is criticism of Capitalism through historicism, and labor value theory. Don't be dumbasses. Peterson is terrible at debating. Put me on stage and I'll BTFO commies.
based zizek talking that nrx shit
>>12964832His platitudes aren't even coherent, he's the worst storyteller i've seen in my life. He starts one place and branches off into a dozen non-sequitors and never ends on any point, you just have to grasp at his zizekism as they come and go.
>>12964858I'm from cth
zizek literally giving peterson feedback, so patronising, peterson is done
>>12964858>implying frog man and zizzy are lit to begin withlol
>Zizek actually referencing the core point of the debate instead of memeing about the communist manifesto over and over
>>12964858no u
>>12964866Zizeks talking points aren't internally consistent.
>>12964862>I was only memeing!fuck off
>zizek literally agreeing with peterson about socialism
>>12964872>criticism of Capitalismyeah and Capitalism has evolved from the days the manifesto was written.
>>12964880u got bad brain
>>12964860You might have enough knowledge to understand jung but I don't and petersons lectures were really good as a general overview of psychology for me. Peterson actually got me into Jungian psychology.
>>12964912>Peterson actually got me into Jungian psychology.Is this supposed to be a good thing? lmao
>>12964903>implying i was memeinguh oh
he called out petersons critique of communism OOOOOOOOOOOOOOO SHIIITTTTT
Just arrived homecatch up please
>>12964906Zizek isn't hard to follow, the rollercoaster just doesn't go anywhere. It's so obvious he's just appealing to pseuds. You can just pick out a bunch of shit he believes and none of it fits together.
The audience laughs at Zizek saying Marx's didn't understand
where did all these brainlets come from.
>>12964912>Peterson actually got me into Jungian psychologyyou fucking idiot YOU FUCKING IDIOT LMAO
>>12964931muh requirement of grand narratives
because yeh uh sniff uh egalitaranism sniff uhhh uh a uh SNIFF uh ah SNIFFFFF marx UH sniff
>I agree with your basic babbys first communism Pwederson, well done!
>imagine calling yourself a marxist and having the exact same opinions about socialist states that peterson has
>>12964939and so on
Privatize the oceans
>>12964936Explain
>>12964934The difference between this thread and the other three about this is really jarring, it's obvious it got crosslinked elsewhere.
When will Zizeks gish gallop end holy shit
>>12964938everyone has a worldview whether they want to or not
Uh - UH - UH SSHNNNIFF
literally no idea how anyone can watch this and think peterson makes more sense
>>12964938Zizek "ideology" is just a frankenstien of nebulous shit he's formed on his whims.
Zizek's take on South Africa is astonishing
https://www.strawpoll.me/17849671
>>12964912His interpretations and idiosyncratic elucidations on Jung's work is particularly clear, as far as Jungian scholars go. That doesn't mean he's the best, but it means that his particular branch of expertise is made all the more lurid and illuminating and articulate through his comprehension of Jung. The fact of the matter is most people mistake his clarity for laziness or stupidity. When in reality it takes a great degree of genius to make clear and simple things so complex. But to know this, you need to understand the sophisticated abstractions. Which most people don't. Hence the large swarms of retards posting this shit>>12964886>>12964868
> WTF i thought zizek was going to talk about marxism being good now none of my notes make senselol
>>12964966>>12963607already been predicted
In terms of what the debate was supposed to be about: Marxism vs capitalism, as to which creates the most happiness, Zizek hasn't even defended marxism while Peterson has defended capitalism against marxism. So to me, Zizek lost the debate.
>>12964952This is so obviously Gish galloping and the worst part is he doesn't need to to btfo of peterson. Zizek is just on autopilot
>>12964971right, zizek's thoughts are not easily slotted into any existing ideology because he formed his beliefs by spending his entire life examining different tendencies and synthesizing them into something unique. he is an intellectual. intellectuals always have frankenstein monster ideologies. zizek's is sensible compared to peterson.
>Zizek baits himself into the problem about oceans and environment in general>Baits Peterson by talking about the South Africa civil wars and how Capitalism isn't solving itOh boi, this is gud
>>12964931Hes usually super scatter brained which is why I'm not a huge fan of his talks (aside form him being coked out of his mind most of the time). Although hes actually more on point right now and doing well in his 3rd act here.
>>12964966Peterson is obviously talking shit, Zizek is just rambling. I guess Zizek wins by default.
>>12964982Basically. All Peterson had to do was read Zizek, and he instead read fucking Marx.
>>12965007I think in an academic debate, having to mention the Jewish aristocracy to answer a question definitely warrants a forfeit to the asker.
Zizek BTFO's Peterson's idea that (((egalitarianism))) is the product of Marx and (((South Africa)))
>>12964993>synthesizing them into something uniqueNo he isn't. that's the main criticism of him.
>>12964776>AfricanNationalistkek how are the african nations working out
>>12964931you just require people to tell you how to think. Dumbass. Leave lit
ROMANCE BLOOMS ON THE DEBATE STAGE
>>12964975That was a spicy take
>>12964986Marxism is a framework to criticize capitalism. It's not supposed to "create happiness". It's supposed to help people analyse the world they live in.
>>12965032JP bromance with Zizek
Peterson asking Zizek why he hasn't consolidated his cult following into a real militant movement
>>12964971he doesnt have one, read less than nothing: he's trying to synthesize pic related but probably wont in his life time due to needing to know what happens the morning after the revolution; hes not an economist, he tasks us to do it
"you're a character"|
>>12965021Who mentioned Jewish aristocracy?
>>12965039/leftypol/ Pseud. Zizek does tell you how to think, he handwaves massive discussions as if they have already been solved.
>>12965064hahaha
>>12964986Try reading the wikipedia page on Marxism before shitposting brainlet.
Dumbass Peterson didn't even study Zizek before the debate
>>12965064the layers of irony when a caricature of a psychoanalyst project onto another psychoanalyst
>>12965085He's a grifter, minimum effort, maximum $$$, his brainlets fans won't care one bit.
This is the problem with debates they are friends and now Zizek isn't actually a Marxist. These 2 fags just wanted to get along, so abandoned their differing views. You think Achilles and Aegemmon would pull this shit?
>>12965069hahahaha I've been called /pol/ countless times but this is the first time I've been called /leftypol/ on lit. tonight's the night
>>12965085Zizek didn't study peterson either. peterson let Zizek turn the debate into zizek masturbating himself.
WOOOOO HEGEL
Zizek's opening was almost word for word the same thing he read in another youtube video recently
>>12965098>Achilles and Aegemmonyou want blood you fucking peasant>>12965102Zizek has written lots about Peterson. shut up
>>12965102The idea of even trying to compare their bodies of work to each other is hilarious.
peterson is gassed, get him some milk
>>12965098yup
>>12965116he's a famous self-plagiarist
There are no problems with Marx fuck this shit
The amount of leftypol zizek pseuds that will infest /lit/ over the next while is going to be suffocating.
Peterson just died.
well, that was a mixed metaphor
the eternal question is finally posed
zizek, my guy, take it easy, oh my lord
This is a clever way of posing the no true marxist argument
>>12965121It's just verbal masturbation. All philosophical battles are actually just excuses to go to war. Day to Day life is mostly the same once humans adjust to it
>when this guy references Lacan, Hegel, Marx's writing but all you can do is repeat your cliff notes from the communist manifestooh my god
Damn Zizek went hard.
>>12965121>>you want blood you fucking peasantWhat other fucking reason is there to watch this packaged "intellectualism"?
>>12965168I hate niggers and trannies as much as you, but back to red dit you brainlet pleb
ZIZEK: THE PEOPLES (COMMUNIST COLLECTIVE) CHAMP
conclusion: actually everyone with a brain hate sjws and postcolonialists
"That is precisely a non-marxist gesture par exellance" Damn, Zizek.
Holy shit Zizek is going for the kill.
yow
>>12965217I'm not concerned with niggers and trannies. I'm concerned with gaytheist pseuds.
>>12965193I believe Zizek just went rough on him
did marx create the categories of oppressor and oppressed? his key insight is stating this relationship is economic. not inventing the relationship.
>>12965223But how is that related to Marxism?
>stellinistpeterson gets the wall
looked at that cucked body language on Petersons part while Zizek is openly just aggressively pointing in his face.it's over
peterson is done for
>well, that's where we might have a dispute about Marxism, I wrote the communist manifesto after allis this guy mentally challenged or something, what the fuck
>>12965260it's the body language of someone treating a patient
>>12965239That's nice, first time today he wasn't talking to himself. Let's see if that moment of sobriety will hold
Peterson needs to address Zizeks assertion that any negative feelings against something that's morally wrong is pathological. Gay fucking Buddhist shit without any of the detachment.
Peterson thinks Derrida and Foucult were Marxists LMAO this brainlet retard doesn't read
>>12965254Zizek gets it too
>>12965280this isn't even about marxism, it's about modernism.
>>12965280He couldn't even be arsed to read anything more than the communist manifesto, he is a complete joke.
>>12965240I have a piece of advice, the best and truest anyone will give you: kill yourself
>>12965284well yes, but he gets it later than most
>>12965280bruh they were post modernists too, you can be anything you want when you're a post modernist
GET HE ASS ZIZEK FUCK DONA TRUP FUCK DONAL TRUMP https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upPR_b3es3I
Peterson: i-its no wonder no one invites you to places!
>>12965284of course, moralizing does no good for us
>>12965297Stop being so upset you aren't getting pseud cred for thinking zizek is a genius and you are smart for being able to understand what he talks about.
Be honest, you all are too stupid for this.
>>12965246>his key insight is stating this relationship is economic. not inventing the relationshipAnon, please.
>when you try to strawman Foucault but someone you're talking with has actually read FoucaultOH NO NO NO
>>12965341you're projecting anon.
>>12965332I don't think he's a genius, I think you are dumb
>>12965341no u
>>12965341No I'm looking down on both of these brainlets
>tfw you read your hegel
Zizek isn't engaging Peterson on his own terms.>>12965341No one here needs to pretend they understand peterson. He's being very sophomoric. The people who are too stupid are the ones getting swept away by zizeks gish gallops.
>What is true happiness and how is it attained?Phil 101 essay inbound.
>>12965358That must have been the first one for him kek
>>12965341no because this outcome was correctly predicted down to the very winning rhetoric stemming from petersons model being dogshit to begin with
>>12965341brainlet
>>12965364You think you are intelligent for liking zizek, and are upset people aren't giving you the pseud cred you deserve.
>>12965368This
the back and forth has gotten pretty good. shoul've skipped the first hour
>>12965358The only thing Zizek said was "my understanding of Foucault isn't the same as yours", how does that invalids Peterson's argument?
>>12965399The back and forth is retarded. Each response is just leading to a non-sequitur to discuss.
>>12965372>The people who are too stupid are the ones getting swept away by zizeks gish gallops.so by your admission zizek too stupid for zizek
>>12965401its a backhanded way of saying youre wrong
>>12965401Peterson has no understanding of Foucault because he hasn't read Foucault and clearly has no idea about his anti-Marxist views which Zizek has pointed out.
>that's why cupid has arrowswhy is he so cute
>>12965424That doesn't mean anything if you don't actually prove the person is wrong.
>>12965399thisZizek should have given a bit of cocaine to Peterson before the debate and it should have started as a conversations instead of an essay presentation
oh fuck not the love thing again, please zizek
>>12965428Peterson's critique of Foucault has always been about about modernism, not his supposed marxism.
>>12965421I think Zizek has some amount of self awareness and is being intentional.
>>12965420how illiterate can you be
get a third positionist to obliterate both of these fools
>>12965467He literally just called him a postmodernist, not a modernist, you know that those two things aren't the same, right? kek
>>12965395hahahah you are as over the target as JP
the son asking the father why he has been forsaken isn't God becoming an atheist who the fuck takes this shit seriously? Zizek has been doing shit like this all day.
>>12965487I'm a third positionist and agree with almost everything Zizek has said.
>>12965445he followed it up with saying foucault was against marxism, bringing him up is irrelevant hence he had no real point
Lmao Zizek going for the throat and exposing peterson for the ideological fraud he is
>>12965522>I am a third position without third position opinions
THATS LIFEE
>>12965522because you're a pseud and let zizek get away with lots of crazy shit because he goes over so much so briefly.
Peterson was shallow and banal. Zizek was offensively obnoxious.
>>12965507>who the fuck takes this shit seriouslyPeterson apparently.
>>12965605Peterson is obviously so confused and overwhelmed he just wants to go over his talking points to save points.
>>12965568that's a knockout if this were boxing>>12965555nice quads
All shitposting aside; the direct interaction has been great
>>12965599reddit vs 4chan
>>12965641It was Zizek that brought up religion
>>12965664Amazing how broad the applicability of this dichotomy is
>>12965507The son and the father are both God so explain why not
>Peterson talking about Jesus>zizek talking about toilets
dad, not the toilet joke AGAIN -_-
>>12965688it was just invoking Christs human nature. Like Job he couldn't understand the fathers nature. He never became an atheist, he merely questioned his understanding of the fathers nature, or if you really want to claim grew to resent him.
>>12965754Zizek is a failed comedian masquerading as a philosopher
>>12965778That's pretty much what modern atheism is . Rather than arguing against God's existence most of them just say "God was bad so I don't believe in him"
>>12965801he's no different from my grandpa who just looks for an excuse to tell the same joke again and again, the content only is different
>>12963564Smart animal
There's a lot of agreement from Zizek happening here
>>12965826Even so, it can just as well be interpreted as humility of jesus part. His cry was sincere and not a condemnation of the father. it wasn't "dad is bad" But "please tell me what i did wrong so i can repent, correct myself etc even if my fate is the same" Christ had already accepted his fate, his cup just overflowed and he wasn't able to handle it stoically. he's fully human after all.
Zizek is very smart, but at the end of the day he's still a h*manist
>>12965953Zizek is a sophist. he's not smart.
>>12965930Is this what Peterson talks about when he describes it as "merciful" ?
>>12965971>he's a sophist>he's not smartok brainlet
>>12965971>sophist are dumb you stupid fuck lol
>>12965971t. have never read any works of an ancient Greek sophistbtw you know sophist and sophisticated and sophia come from the same root, right?
Disgusting appeal to centrist modernism.>>12965991>>12965992>>12966001sophists are just manipulative, maybe zizek would be smart if he invented some new effective form of sophistry but he's just using tired tactics. he's gish galloping and brainlets are being entranced by him because he is saying a lot of shit.
>>12966055>>12965991
alex jones on rogancast has nothing on this
Ah, such bathos, but it was clear what the outcome would be long before that hasty conclusion arrived. I will look fondly back on this evening as the clash between the preeminent intellectual titans of our times. Between Zizek's dazzling anecdotes and assertions and JBP's staunch classical liberalism (the very same kind which Guénon was so critical of), through their vigourous dialectic we have all been enriched, and for this I am most thankful.
>>12966055dude you're dumb as shit
>>12965826What you mean with modern atheism?
>>12966106You can keep repeating the mantra all you want, I share your insecurities.
>>12965953Zizek is an anti-humanist Althusserian.
>>12966176Atheism as manifested by highschool fedora lords and homosexuals. It's God is bad so I won't believe in him, and a science circle jerk to hide behind. It isn't a sincere and intellectual rejection of Gods existence as a concept.
No audience questions?
>>12964749>don't worry it's a short bookGod damn Z, put some lube on
>>12966210Ah, yes. You're right. Atheism as a identitarian movement. rather than a posture on god.I hate it. It doesn't have anything new to begin. Best case scenario is just badly understood Hume.
>>12966179kill yourself
>>12966276You already tried that one too.
>>12966295dude you're wrong about everything you have ever thought about...you are worthless
>>12966316No u
>>12964309Themselves.
>>12964107their model suck but in a way marx and lenine would be proud of them
>>12963316https://www.strawpoll.me/17850950https://www.strawpoll.me/17850950https://www.strawpoll.me/17850950
>>12964550nice try