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The most influential debate of the decade will be happening today, who's going to win?
>>12958650Us
>>12958654*Everyone except usWhichever one of these clowns wins, we lose.
>>12958650Where can I watch it?
>>12958663>>12958650y link the brothers up
>>12958650Share it us if anyone finds an illegal stream
>>12958650why's it happening on good friday?
>>12958650Can't imagine two bigger hacks than these two.
>>12958708Why is zizek a hack?
>>12958719Continental philosophy is a joke in general.
>>12958676https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Q46AoR80M4
>>12958650The Jews.
>>12958730Chances are you're just stupid.
>>12958708Mencius Moldbug vs. Noam Chomsky
>>12958719You clearly have a dog in this fight. Sorry you follow a hack.
>>12958650They're not that different. A lot of their arguments are based on obscurantist continental nonsense. I also like Zizek despite being a right-winger.
>>12959435Ay fuck you
>>12958650Sean Goonan is the most important thinker alive.
Zizek will destroy Peterson with a good sense of humor
Can we continue dabbing on that tankie in this thread?
>>12959510Sure, people will claim Peterson won anyway.Peterson is indeed afraid of an intellectual frontier.People are stupid and want comfort and Peterson can satisfy them.
>>12958650>>12958650I’m just happy to see some juicy dialectic
>starts in 7 hourswe better get a sticky for this when the stream goes live
>>12959922Will twitch streams be banned?
>>12959483>alive>not of all time
Why do people watch debates expecting there to be a winner?
>>12959834#>Had there been any actual discussion in this thread yet?You should know by now that any attempt of discussion when it comes to Peterson or Zizek will always devolve into anons thinking they're smarter than they are and nitpicking the most irrelevant details in order to devalue any other point no matter how extraneous that detail is in the bigger picture.
>>12958654Fpbp, anon with that wise answer
>>12958661How so? The point of a debate is to find an answer or, at least, find the best compromise. These things impart those who are involved and those who are witness with wisdom. Where is the loss?
>>12959904After the old one dies
>>12959904She was fucking smoking all comers and im not left wing by any means, give credit where its dueIf thats representitive of what zizek is going to bring down on peterson then yikes
>>12960077>Shewelcome back tankie, thank you for joining us once more
>>12960077t. AOC
CONTINUE THE THREAD HERE: >>12960076
>>12960077Because it was aoc, any sitting congress person is going to wax the floor with the average pleb, if this were pol it might be different
>>12960077Her entire posting boiled down to 'We totally are about to stage a revolution believe me, and when we do it will be much better than present America, and I have zero evidence for this'
>>12960104The US will definitely have a "Communist" revolution, but in reality it will be more like "Anglo-Progressive revoltution, Round N", will somehow be worse than what we have now, and will devolve into racial Maoism and a purgatory state for rednecks. On the bright side, at least Anglo thought will have definitively failed so the rest of the world can move on from it
>>12960165this anon was literally saying she was part of a radical group posing as being moderate within the DSA and they were in the process of implementing some kind of revolution after which their Party would rule by iron fist including bugging and monitoring the entire population Orwell style
>>12960165?
>>12960096O I saw it was her at once, someone made a post about her and when she couldn’t resist responding it might as well have been her twitter lmao >>12959557
>>12960214I dont believe for a second aoc posts on the literature board of 4chan, it was just some girl who is part of some gay commie chapter
>>12960180I mean that doesnt sound super far fetched, no?
>>12960226It’s not 4chan is super obscure. She’s young, loves literature and there’s a popular Chapo thread upWho knows
>>12960026You're wrong, that much is obvious to anyone who has ever been and/or participated in any form of debate, but the real question is: why? Which one are you, anon?
>>12960077Link?
>>12960645In the thread I linked here >>12960214
>>12959435kys :*
>>12959907>people will claim Peterson won anyway.How did someone who constantly talks about individuals and against group identity get such a sheepish following?
>>12960096>>12960214>>12960226I WANT TO BELIEVE. Shitposting commie mommy milkers!
>>12958650>who's going to win?me for not watching
>>12960096>if this were pol it might be differentbut /pol/ is even stupider than /lit/
>>12960775Not for politics, /lit/ had no idea what communism and fascism were, she was literally educating them on basic subjects instead of debatingIf it were /pol/ she would’ve had a proper scrap, but she also would’ve been drowned, we’re benefitted by being a much smaller board
>>12960745If it was AOC she’d be posting 3-frame Beyoncé gifs and telling us we’ve got to do an epic nae-nae on climate change by opening our border
>>12960708Because individualism is the ultimate sheep ideology.
>>12960077>>12960797This is embarrassing, weren’t you supposed to start dilating at 2?
>>12960797What fucking thread did you read, she made no points at all
>>12960765also meanyone else in the winners club?
>>12960026The point of a debate is just rhetoric dick measurement. The audience has already picked sides long ago and will leave the debate claiming their hero had the longer dick. Nothing of importance in philosophy or any other intellectual endeavor has ever been furthered in a debate.
>>12959434Name a single proposal of Zizek’s. Show me a video where or quote from his books that doesn’t just circle around to bourgeois liberal managerialism after the punchline
>>12958650peterson 100%
>>12960826Mad
>>12958730His book on Lacan and Hegel
>>12958650Since the moderator is one of Peterson's pals, Peterson
>>12960007Incoming from >>12960076
>>12958650Hopefully Peterson cause I hate zizekfaggots more.
peterson: marxism is like, holy cow man! the 6 million russians in those evil evil camps! it's like, how can you expect to go on unless you arbitrary set goals for yourself? and that's freedom of thought, and that's capitalism.zizek: ok sho, i want ferst to address some little tidbit you said inshted of your main point, becaush it linksh up with an anecdotal talking point i have ushed again and again and sho on and there ish a joke i can tell with eet ethshetra shetra but more to the point! the hishtorical ashepcts of soviet communionism do not. represhent. the ideology. or critique. of. capital. and so on.
>>12958650>of the decadeMore like of the century. This debate will determine the fate of Western Civilization. Will we ignore social and political problems and focus on ourselves while the world crumbles, as Peterson advises, or will we diagnose and solve our problems as Zizek would have us do.
golly gee bucko i just think that uh the current system is just fine be an individual and work under bourgeois managerialism itll be just fine clean ur room and improve yourself cuz real change is not. a path. you want. to go down.zhee theeng ish moi problehm withsch dish idea of shanging thingsh is zhat change itshelf ish zhee shtandard idea, it ish almosht part of the conshstant shtruggle of shocietyee vish itshelf and therefore not violent enuff. eef vee want to shange thingsh vee should leave them ash they are.
>>12959435chomsky is a much better scholar/philosopher/political thinker than fucking zizek. he just lacks the memes is all, he's a boring old man. i fall asleep listening to him talk. but he speaks the truth.
>>12960077>smoking>hurdur I beat up da fash n goldy faithCome on dude I'm a lefty and that shit was just embarassing. I went back after you faggots talked it up so much I was expecting some sublime discourse and got some /pol/ tier attempts at bantz.
>>12961583I don't think anyone has ever claimed Chomsky is the less sound philosopher of the two, no matter if they agree or not. Unless they're player-hating commies dumping on Chomsky for getting paid by the Man.
>>12961583Eh, Chomsky's dismissal of continental philosophy is a detriment to his cause. At least Zizek has the courtesy to praise the importance of actual scientific advancement and analytical philosophy in terms of physics.
>>12961591This is the sort of attitude everyone has until AOC drops in.Everyone would do so much better until she’s there saying, “Yes?”Given they didn’t realize it was her but my point is it’s easy to look on from the sidelines and feel like you could’ve take. out a congresswomen on politics.
>>12961643Technically there is an obscure British school of sociology known as cultural Marxism, if I remember correctly
>>12961730lol. fucking sociologists always have the worst interpretations of marx. And pretty much every serious thinker outside their discipline, for that matter.
>>12961563Not bad
>>12961729The absolute unthinking deference to authority(it's not even real auhtority it's a fucking shitposter dropping typical talking points) of you lefties is breathtaking.You can't even argue a point, all you can do is flap around some figure who you think is allowed to say things
>>12958650Daffy Duck vs Kermit the Frog
>>12961563and so on and so on and so on and so on and so on and so on and so on and so on and so on and so on and so on and so on and so on and so on and so on and so on and so on and so on...
Around 3 more hours before it's on
>>12961752What? Not at all. Even if it wasn’t her my point stands. Everyone is talking about they would have done so much better, she was taking all comers no problem. As I said elsewhere, maybe only brainlets were on, or maybe it’s easier in your imagination.
>>12961793She didn't even know the definition of fascism you complete brainlet
>>12961802Yeah I’m sure your esoteric Evolean specification is the only true definition, shut the fuck up. She not only defined it correctly by the books, she also added that it didn’t matter, all that mattered was how she chose to define it. So it literally doesn’t even matter to begin with how you define it.
>>12961818The correct definition is the one that the Fascists defined in the fucking Doctrine of Fascism>>12961818>she also added that it didn’t matter, all that mattered was how she chose to define it.Im aware that there are many ways in which she embarrassed herself in the thread yes
>>12961827>textual definitions of fascism. I don't know who the fuck you're talking about but this is cringe bro
>>12961841yeah bro and there's no reason to read Capital if you want to know what Marxism is
>>12961827>Doctrine of FascismAh i see u again, do u think this is like the international consensus textbook or something? Lmao
>>12961857No it's only the document written by the men who started the Fascist party
>>12961856It might be helpful, but you would also need to know the actual history of working class struggle, the communist bloc, and economic theory more broadly. You cannot say, "communism is whatever marx said" without leaving out really important stuff. Jodi Dean, in The Communist Horizon, points these things out pretty well.
>>12961881I see! Which is why Hitler and Mussolini’s regimes looked exactly alike, because they both knew the Doctrine of Fascism and followed it to a T.
>>12961905Do you define Marxism by the Soviet Union? didnt think so
>>12961903If you want to know what Marxism is I said, not communism, then you read Marx. Fascism was a specific movement made by men who literally wrote down what its worldview and objective were
>>12961912What a dumbass response lmao, you’re saying fascism is only what’s laid out in your precious book, when the book is clearly irrelevant to realworld manifestations of fascism, which vary.
>>12961912the british defined Hinduism solely by the Veda texts they had, which created an absolutely static and woefully inadequate understanding of society in India. Textualism is at the root misunderstanding of many things about the east vs the west.
>>12961924Exactly what people say about Marxism isnt it? They say 'read capital', the USSR wasn't socialistI see now why you've just been sucking off the other anon instead of posting, you argue like a dumb sack of shit
>>12961922If you're saying that, like Marxism, fascism is only an ideology, then you're immediately doing a disservice to all those who are talking about the actual history of states and the things they did. But even then, Marxism is mostly a framework of analysis, fascism is incredibly hollow on those grounds.
>>12961929So you would suggest what then, asking the Hindu themselves? There are no fascists around to ask. You know who you should not ask? The sworn enemies of Fascism who hate everything about it, theyre not likely to be very objective
>this fucking chat in a livestreamHoly fuck tone down the cringe morons
Why are there so many fucking cuckservatards and other right-wing trash on /lit/? Thought you guys were the "big bad lefty boogieman"? Guess /tv/ lied to me again.
>>12961939How can you see not see that you’re flat wrong? Ad hominems will make you feel better but hardly help your case.Your book says: Fascism is only this.The world shows: Fascism is this and that and this and that.AOC says: Fascism is this and that and this and that.You say: But muh bookAnd now you’re whining incomprehensibly about Marx, shut the fuck up dude.
>>12961940Fascism is hollow in your opinion, Marxism is garbage in many others'. If you want to talk about the history of Italy and how it diverged from the Fascist doctrine go ahead, but don't lie from the outset about what the movement was.
>>12961943There were plenty of contemporaneous speeches and interviews from self proclaimed fascists in the 20s through 40s. But it's also about observing what they did and the historical and economic moment that defined them.
>>12961949>cuckservatardsI'm going to stop you right here.
>>12961951You're actually so fucking dumb you can't grasp the comparison to Marxism re states vs doctrine. You're some puerto rican 90IQ trash from an nyc suburb arent youAoc didnt talk about Italy, she talked about fascism as the removal of minority races, a phenomenon which a)did not accompany the initial Fascist state, and b)frequently accompanies regimes that are not Fascist.
>>12961954I mean, do you have any idea how much theory, in terms of history, economics and politics that Marxism spawned? Hitler, Evola, Mussolini, these people are not intellectual heavy weights that's just a fact. You can say Marx was wrong, but you cannot say that there isn't incredible depth to the analysis.
>>12961978>You can say Marx was wrongyou could, but then you'd be wrong.
>>12961730I thought that’s what they first referred to cultural studies as until they came up with a more appropriate name.>>12961714I don’t see why embracing continental philosophy would do for him.
>>12961978Marxism has no predictive power and neither socialism nor communism will ever occur, it's nothing more than ground for endless pseudo-theological masturbation
>>12961970Yeah lmao good luck dude, in general. I’ve even broken it down into easy kindergarten patterns and you still just can’t get it. You do you.
>>12961991That's what I thought you dumb fucking spic
>>12961714chomsky dismisses "theory". especially in his early writings he engages thinkers like descartes, rousseau, kant, js mill, and marx often
>>12961989materialistic dialect is an extremely powerful ideology. it's not going to go away sorry bucko.
>>12962000Neither will Christianity or Islam, but the Second coming isn't coming
>>12961968>he says, posting Rick_Sanchez.png
>>12961978>I mean, do you have any idea how much theory, in terms of history, economics and politics that Marxism spawned?and he still couldnt get over our boi stirner
>>12961989Nothing you wrote is even remotely correct.
>>12962011hello i don't read book please explain what stirner did
>>12962012What is the predictive power of Marxism exactly? It has none. It is religion masquerading as ideology, it's endless permutations are like Talmudic wankery
>>12962010>look, mom, I'm hating popular things, are you proud of me?
>>12962003christianity and islam exist to humor the materialists.
>>12961989Marx's LTV has incredibly predictive power. He also correctly predicted globalization, the break down of the family, and the falling rate of profit. Sure he didn't get everything 100% correct, but there are things worth looking at.
>>12962022He didn't predict it, he caused it.
>>12962022Marxist economics cannot predict anything about the economy. You can find any number of 19th century thinkers who correctly predicted things that happened in the 20th century
>>12962011I'll admit, the extent to which stirner made marx buttmad amuses even me
>>12962017stirner took a shit on communism and rightly so, marx was so upset that he wrote a full book calling him ugly names and didnt even get it published lmao
>>12961989>>12962022we're talking philosophy and not fucking augury, buds
>>12962022>Sure he didn't get everything 100% correct,i'd say he absolutely nailed around 80-90%. No one can deduce/"predict" with 100% accuracy cause people aren't wizards so it's unfair to say that unless he got 100% everything correct, his works are to be discarded.
Begin with a straightforward introduction on background on both thinkers: they’re scholarly achievements and their publications. On the stage sits Peterson, legs crossed, hands in his lap. He sports (in the clear sense) a blue suit and brown shoes. He looks wealthy. He has on a serious face. Zizek sits laidback, hands on his thighs, black shirt, jeans. He often licks his lips, twitches his nose, blinks his eyes.MED. Gentlemen, I would like to start off simply. Would each of you please clear the air as to how you define capitalism, and then communism. Dr. Peterson, would you please start.PET. (Looking down at the ground ahead) Geez. What a task! Sure, I’d love to. Well, yeah, you know, to keep it short, it’s not that hard, you know: capitalism, in its ideal state, creates wealth for others. I can’t speak for how well it’s used currently, or we’ll end up like the talking heads you see everywhere, you know, end-of-the-world-news-anchor-clips, that sort of deal. I can say, though (looks clearly at someone in the audience, likely the mediator), that capitalism, in any instance, is preferable to marxism or communism, and not only can we turn to cases in history, but the fundamental argument of each system to see that.MED. Thank you. Dr. Zizek?ZIZ: (Blinking fast, licking lips). I tink (pinches nose), Dr. Peterson has hit everyteeng on the head, you know. But! (points finger in the air) like most capeetaleests, he grossly jumps to one end of the spectrum while forgetting the goods and the bads, as some of us say, of the core ideas. Even on the flight here, for instance, I was flipping through one of my favorite books, David Foster Wallace’s Thee Pale Keeng, and I saw (sniff), a passage, from this genius, no less, that lays out an idea of Marxism, and it says something along the lines of, “In Communist society it will be possible for me to do one thing today and another tomorrow, to hunt in the morning, fish in the afternoon, rear cattle in the evening, criticize after dinner, just as I please,” Yesh, just as I please! Now I can hear Dr. Peterson offering his rebuttal, of labor and division and inshentive, but to this I only give a nod to a near future, where all of this is possible. Should we give up?MED. Dr. Peterson, would you like to respond?
Isn't only the theory of capital from Marx worth a shit? Are you guys really trying to discredit his whole work?
>>12962026>He didn't predict it, he caused it.lol. It was the capitalists who globalized, who's competition led to the falling rate of profit, who's profit seeking led to new markets being opened, which destroyed the family to get more and more laborers at its disposal. >>12962028It can predict sector prices and profits, and it can predict crisis
>>12962062
>>12962062You should have written something along the lines of "Peterson thinks that, but the situation is quite the opposite" for Zizek.
>>12962062nice
>>12961951>AOC says: Fascism is this and that and this and that.What was meant by that? It didn’t define fascism in a meaningful way. It just established “fascism” as the set ideologies which she could justify the use of violence against and claimed to have the institutional control to give that violence legitimacy. That person made no real ideological assertions, and it was more akin to Khrushchev banging his shoe on the lectern than it was stating meaningful positions.
>>12961949Go back to your discord safe space, nigger
>>12962033>marx and engels all cuddled up cheek to cheek co-inspecting lines of text as if that's how you craft ideasWhy is Marxist art so goddamned gay?
unironically cleaning my room while waiting for the debate to start
>>12962150He means fascism is whatever he and the tee vee want it to be.Yes, there are NPCs on /lit/, too.
Someone linked the stream to /pol/ My comfy experience is getting ruined by flithy nazis
>>12962182topkekhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YamAsbzPKA
>>12962195good you dumb faggot go eat a knife
Plase stop talking about AOC. She's making Peterson and Zizek look like actual intellectuals.
>>>/pol/210534167At this point I'm inclined to believe that this person1. Truely believes that it was AOC2. Is either very stupid, or taking the piss and trying to humiliate AOC
>>12962190She specifically said she wasn’t interested in allowing fascists to identify themselves and that all that mattered was her opinion. Disagree with her or not, she’s an authoritarian, she wasn’t actually trying to debate, she was just saying, “This is what qualifies, if you qualify you’re fucked.”
>>12962200cf. my post which I intended to post here >>12962208
So the event itself starts 7:30 est. on stream? Gotta hit the gym and don't want to miss it.
>>12962065>the theory of capital from Marx worth a shitWho told you that rubbish?
>>12962212she took on about 15 anons and made most of them look dumb. that guy isn’t far off, maybe exaggerating very slightly but not a lot at all.
>>12962214and it's actually every thread since the first one, come on
>>12962065Capital from Marx is great
>>12962213No argument there.
>>12962153Seethe, /pol/shit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCVck7bIbBI
>>12962226>more than ten audience members wearing fedoras
>>12962245Have sex.
>>12962222>made most of them look dumb.You only made them look dumb in the eyes of a narrow group of people who'd already accepted your premisedFurthermore, you avoided responding to posts that would take things in awkward directions for your arguments
>>12962268*premises
>>12962248jesus christ
>>12962268this you thing youre doing is weird, not sure if u literally think i was the poster or if youre ESL. she was ignoring posts that were either dumb or personal (ie do you live in NYC, or BUT DEFINE FASCISM A FIFTH TIME)
>>12962285take your fat illiterate brown sack of shit you call a body and fuck off
>>12962222literally happens all the time on /lit/. takes a true child to give a flying fuck.
>people STILL think it was really her
>>12962293>peoplelel
I don't care about either of these two clowns.
>>12962291hm doubt
>>12962290don’t (you) someone you dont want a response from genius, dont stick a penny in the electrical socket either
>>12958650Why are women not represented in this "debate"?
>>12962285I can’t blame people for wanting a definition when it’s clear the concept exists in that person’s mind solely to justify violence. Again that person made no meaningful assertions, only threats.
>>12962324You keep saying “justifies violence”, communists don’t need fascism to justify a revolution. Their ideology is inherently and selfadmittedly violent, the only foil it needs is capitalism.
>>12962302kys fag
>>12962345eat shite, lobsterboi
>>12958650Zizek will troll the shit out of him. Peterson's been off the ball for the past year.
>>12962343Fair enough, I guess “justifies violence in a non-revolutionary setting.” Essentially the set of positions so intolerable that they must be forcibly destroyed whenever they pop up.
>>12961591>Come on dude I'm a leftycringe
Will there be a livestream?
>>12961999>especially in his earlier writing he engages with thinkers like...KantWhere in specific?
>>12961591>I'm a lefty>uses "faggots"Ah, you must be /leftypol/ kind of """""lefty""""".
>>12962293Do people literally think there's one left-wing woman in existence? AOC isn't even far left.
>>12962465This, women are too dumb for politics
>>12962465>people
>>12962200Who is that, L Ron Hubbard?
Did it happen already?
>>12962534yeah, Zizek didnt show up.
>>12962293I'm willing to pretend it's her until they realize trying to talk themselves up by pretending it's her just makes her look like an idiot
>>12962551>until they realize trying to talk themselves up by pretending it's her just makes her look like an idiotHumans don't live that long
>>12961968nigga posted a rick and morty meme lol
Stream link besides the youtube one?
>>12961968Too late my dick's already in ur mouth
>>12962551it's an alt-right 4channel prank trying to smear her name by associating her to this place because sadly the msm thinks all 4chan is /pol/ and white nationalists, not accepting that progressive boards like /lit/ exist.Jsut ignore all the trumpretards.
>>12962606>progressive boards like /lit/lolwut, only if compared to /pol/, perhaps.
>>12962343>communists don’t need fascism to justify a revolutionIn the current political context they behave as if they do. Antifa only talks about capitalism internally. In all public statements, especially those amplified by the press, resistance to "fascism" is always the pretext.
>>12962666>especially those amplified by the press, resistanceHonk honk
>>12961575underrated
>>12962666Antifa are radlibs. Regardless, revolutions are historically contingent events and unless you have an actual guerrilla army rearing to go they often operate on the logic of the accomplished fact. To create justifications for the need for revolution now, in a non-revolutionary moment, is not useful.
>>1296260I also don't think she's dumb enough to say things that would end her political career even in an anonymous setting. I'm sure Schumer and Pelosi would be thrilled to know that the new Lenin is withing their ranks, and the Republicans would be genuinely thrilled to hear that she described herself that way.
>>12958650>debatestop saying this, zizek literally pussied out and requested the format to be that each of them would present their thesis one at a time, then ending with a follow-up Q&A. It's not a debate.
>>12958650Most influential?
>>12962703>Honk honkhaha using 4chan memes! I get it
>>12962738>Antifa are radlibs.At the periphery, yes. The ones more involved with organization are anarcho-communists. Which is a contradiction in terms but there you go.The rest of your statement I have no argument with. However I will say that fascism is always the reaction to communism, so communists will always need a component of "bash the fash" in their ideology.
>>12958650>participating in a meme showdown on Good Friday Isn’t that hack supposed to be a Christian?
>>12962807
>>12962821only symbolically
>>12962666I think you misunderstand the situation. They use fascism as an excuse to justify non-revolutionary violence. It's likely done to prevent movements they find intolerable from gaining support that might come to such a movement in the midst of revolutionary instability.
fascism is a buzz wordpeople who want clicks say fascismi've never heard a normal person say fascism antifa literally just wants the click
>>12962884noyesnoyes
>>12962811>The ones more involved with organization are anarcho-communists. only in the most nominal possible sense>Which is a contradiction in terms but there you no it's not
>>12962798No it's a formal debate, zizek leads for 30/minutes, then Peterson responds for 30 minutes, then there's 10 minutes back and forth followed by questions
>>12962904explain yourself you dumb fucking piece of shit
Fascism is fun.
Who here #snackready and #hellacomfy?
>>12958961Is this legit?
>>12962916ok but who got stream link?
>>12962914Fascism is a cheap knockoff of Communism
>>12962908I dont have to, its your fault you lack the comprehension. But im sure youll say your brother posted this.
>>12962932you just state shit without supporting anything you useless fuck
Funcism.
>>12962938prove it
>>12962302I'm just here to see the circus.
>>12962926https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Q46AoR80M4&feature=youtu.beThis seems to be where everyone is at least.
>>12962916i got some #cheezits
>>12962492It's Wallace Stevens, dude.
>>12962968can't wait for this stream to be revealed as a ruse in a few minutes
loving the memes that are posted on the chat
>>12962978looks like a horde of discord tier bottomfeeders to me
>>12962968i hope this guy just posts a mexican cartel video or something
Should I be taking notes?
>>12962938that’s what I thought. think twice next before you call someone names, it might just be me, and im out of your fucking league
>>12962992People like to talk shit until they get asked to provide proofs. Good shit from a good anon. Props.
There is no such thing as a right wing intellectual. It doesn't exist.Ayn Rand was a shit novelist, Friedman was a garbage economist..and Peterson is a trash self helper.
You american mongrels will now see a proper debate, as is it and should be. Oxford STYLE
>>12963005What makes the right good is that it is anti-intellectual. It's why the left has never produced a truly great poet. Plenty of good ones but never a great one.
>>12963003thx preciate tha luv, some take facts, some take fags u feel me
>>12963008Zizek already states he specifically wanted it to be a discussion and not a debate or whatever it is your second rate uni offers
>>12963015Modern left vs right is a dichotomy from the enlightenment you stupid bitch, the greatest poets predate the entire concept.
>>12963005what about authors who explicitly supported the axis in wwii like Céline, Hamsun and Mishima
>>12962916Pouring jager and coke. Getting chips.
>>12963008Owned by >>12963025Change your anon name to his post number bitch
>>12963028That doesn't make what I said any less true.
>>12963025>wanted it to be a discussionThat's what a good debate is
>>12963035Tell me what you think the enlightenment was.
>>12963005>mfw Goethe was either left wing or not an intellectual
>>12963005>Peterson>right-wingThere will be such confusion over bait and /rdt/ in the coming weeks. Hundreds of millions will perish.
>>12963025a oxford style debate is a discussion... youve exposed yourself as a brainlet
I got a feeling this will be comfy
is the stream a lie? were we all baited? only time will tell.
Peterson's religion is what zizek calls atheist christianity
>>12963052O God it’s this retard, you’re not welcome
oh shit the stream wasn't a hoaxguess I'm staying up
>laughs at /lit/ in self-help
HERE WE GO
>>12963055Nope but there's no sound ;_;
Anyone else feel like one of the guests in the Protagoras or Euthydemus dialogue? Just shamelessly watching an intellectual boxing match for amusement.But to an extent I am genuinely interested in seeing how these two guys clash.
>>12963055God willing it will be true and uninterrupted.God forbid anyone pay to watch a debate
how are there thousands of people on the stream?who else is on it besides /lit/ posters?
Allah please give us sound
>debate>no audiowhat a ruse>>12963068we are many
backup stream pls. this is gonna get taken down any second.
>>12963068/tv/ here.
>>12963062BasedClean your room buckos
>>12963068chapo niggers
>>12963064unless someone has a legit stream to confirm, there might not be sound until they enter the stage (right now it's just people finding their seats etc.)
>stream is legitHEY PETERSON, ZIZEK, I HAVE £15 RIGHT HERE FOR YOU *GRABS CROTCH*
>>12963068Memerson has a reddit cult following everything he does
Hope the sound isn't gone
>>12958650The people who sell tickets to the event hall. Certainly not either of the "debaters" and definitely not anyone who wastes their time listening to this nonsense.
>mfw I'm only here for Zizek to make a Stalin joke in front of thousands of viewers
>>12963068its being shared around twitter a bit and there's a thread on /pol/
>>12963068lit, int, pol, tv I know ofprobably redd*t too
>>12963068Peterson is a memeZizek is a memeOf course a lot of people will be watching meme vs megameme
so theres no official stream? just this shit?
>>12963068Žižek and Pederson are extremely well-known people
>>12963087>meme vs megamemejust who is the meme and who the megameme??
THE SOUND IS ON!
>>12963088you have to pay for official stream
Anybody have the stream link?ITS LIVE.
>>12958650Where the fuck can I see it?
The chat is a wild wild west
>>12963088Streaming is illegal. that's why it's a video called debate club, so as not to tip off youtube
This stream gonna get shut down right
>>12958650We will all lose because both of them are hacks.
>>12963091fucking classical
>>12963090zizek is creme de la meme, the meme supreme. Peterson is genuinely a charlatan.
>>12963068the stream was probably posted somewhere else. I bet it will go down once it starts
>>12963093https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGRC5AA1wF0
>>12963100>Peterson is genuinely a charlatan.
SOMEONE POST THE OTHER STREAM
Here's the stream https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGRC5AA1wF0&fbclid=IwAR1TMRuOGvhpZQEV3np0Hd4i7Oj6y_tUP-AeCQ0G20jd7UBEaS4Hcj47sZ4
Zizek pussied out
>>12963100fair enough, have a zizek meme
>zizekI never trust a person who hates Stalin yet calls themselves a leftist
>>12963100Other way around, buddy.
6k people watching the official stream, what does this mean for america?
>>12963106BASED
>>12963110nice
>>12963082Faggots are going to get it shut down.
>>12963005>he doesn't know who Schelling is
>>12963114embarrassing
>>12963106DONT SPREAD THIS
>>12963106that stream is gonna die soon, too much traction. They're gonna shut it down and uplaod it to youtube later probably
>>12963110el clasico
so this stream is full of 4chan users, as well as redditorsdo you all know what that means?
>>12963123>t. cokehead
>>12963088Want official?That'll be 20 Ziocoins, Bucko.
>>12963129this shit is gonna be boring af right? I regret paying for it already
this thing ever gonna start?
>>12963122A retard. Next question.
>>12963125sports streams get several hundred thousand veiwers and dont get taken down.
>>12963129WE DID IT
>capitalism vs marxismOh boy, judaism vs judaism. Yawn.
>>12963129Have you ever seen reddit and 4chan in the same room?>tfw 4chan and reddit users are identical
>supposedly one of the most important debates in the past 100 years>you can't even watch the stream without paying 3000 dollars
>>12963138Go fuck yourself nigger
Who /cleanroom/ here?
>>12963133kek peterson looks like a statue on the promotional image or whatever
>>12963137have sex
>>12963129It means press the hide chat button
>>12958650We need Betas here
>>12963136>paying for it
>>12963151I did, waiting for this for now
I'm missing jeopardy for this bullshit
>>12963149Yeah, and Zizek looks like a creeper.
>>12963134Imagine if Hegel had offical merchandise, or if locke sold tote bags with memes of his political thought on it. How can petersonites go to sleep at night knowing they worship a commodity?
>>12963153piss bombas?
if you cant name this piece of music, youre uncultured swine
>>12963157>i didseriously, have sex
>>12963123He really is a hack though. Releases the sams copy-pasted book twice a year.
>>12963157Well do it again, illiterate.
>leafs playoff game>thisoh god which one do i pick?
>when Zizek talks about bringing a fleshlight on a date and the woman bringing her fuck machineI'm gonna use that line on a date
>>12963092>you have to pay for official stream
>>12963164Is it dead whitey theme on piano if A minor?
>>12963146I guess capitalism working fine
>>12963110how many kinds of anal penetration ways are there
>>12963141Lmao exactly what I was thinking as well
this is like einstein and tesla having a conversation
>>12963164Fuck Vivaldi and fuck baroque music
>>12963161hol up hombre
>>12963170>oh god which one do i pick?If in doubt go with the memes
aaaand it's gone!
Which one of them is our guy?
meme debate for pseudo-existential half retarded young adults who can't get their life on the rolls.
>>12963164literally babby's first classical
>>12963184based and bluepilled
inb4 they don't appear
Can ANYONE post a link to working stream please? One with sound preferably. Thanks!!
>>12963167
POST OTHER STREAM LINKS
>>12963189The leftist one.
>>12963189The streamer that will not let us watch it
>muke: Hey everyone, if we're taken down by the capitalist pigs at youtube I will be immediately starting a backup stream off my own computer, please read desc on how to connect
The winner will go on to debate the current Heavy Weight Champion of the World, Foucault!Oh wait, he died of AIDS? Then the runner up Chomsky will do...
>he's not even watching the debate wearing his Philosopher's Shoes (tm)lmaoing @ u plebs
>>12963189Zizek certianly more than kermit.
SLI.DOCode: debateif you want to ask questionscant think of anything interesting yet
>>12963145yes and yes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGRC5AA1wF0
>>12963192>meme debateWhy do you think we're watching it, you humorless cretin?
>>12963170Only toronto niggers have faith leafs can win.
>>12963202back to plebbit
>>12963217When start the debate?
>>12963189Neither, if you're not watching this for fence-sitting superiority and amusement you're a pleb.
>>12963209Lmao
>>12963209school of life is comfy tho
>>12963198>One with sound preferablyAss opposed to one WITHOUT sound? What's the point to watch a debate if there's no sound?
https://www.twitch.tv/mawmaws
Vivaldi is bougie trash, this place has an anti-Zizek bias, just look at the pictures they chose for the screen, the visionary peterson v. the black-eyed balkanfag
>>12963209>school of lifeWho could have foretold they would be behind such scam.
>>12963146https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Q46AoR80M4&feature=youtu.be
capitalism vs marxism is just jews who want to slowly own all of the property but not right away vs jews who want to forcibly "collectivize" aka own all the property in a very shorter amount of timefucking boring stream. still gonna root for zizek I guess because muh sniff
>>12963219>tfw /lit/ looks like thatYUCK
>>12963231Zizek is just undeniably ugly.
>>12963222back to /pol/
>>12963189Nick Land
>>12963220Nothing appeals to youth anymore without it being veiled in some form of entertainment. This is the real problem.
>>12963237wrong stream buddy
>>12963217send in your questions boys
>>12963227>school of life is comfy tho
>>12963240There are people outside of /lit/ who care about this debate too
>>12963227>>12963225>>12963233I seriously hope you guys are exclusively watching The School of Life-pornyou're not an intellectual if not
>>12958650Youtube chat seems to be somehow worse than twitch chat
>>12963251Link ?
MODS STICKY
>>12963253Comfy as fuck, especially the guys voice and qt girls
>>12963242there's cuter pics of him
does this thing start at 8 or 8:30? nothings happened and it's been 20 minutes
START THE DEBATE
>>12963214based
>>12963260https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGRC5AA1wF0
>>12963256is it any good?
The truth faggots
where does the "bucko" thing come from? i've never heard him say it
>>12963256post link
Hi from Paris /lit/https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGRC5AA1wF0 this link looks legit
>clapping to rulesAmericans
IT BEGINS
Strap in niggas here we go
the REAL livestream, fuck the other cuck onehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGRC5AA1wF0
who here embarrassed to be watching this?
>>12963256Wait is this serious
BOO FUCK YOU FAGGOT
lolointellectual debate l o l o l ol o l
SHIT HERE WE GO
WTF STOP CLAPPING and whistling, such poor etiquette
Our generations Foucault v Chomsky
ITS HAPPENING
clap clap clap clap clap
>Americlaps
Oh my god this whole thing feels like such a sham already. Like a cash grab
Zizek comfirmed manlet
>>12963289i'm nervous, i hope zizek doesnt fuck up or have another stroke lol
>>12963289Shame is a spook.
this is verbal masturbation
>Towering figures
Anon's stream is like 30 seconds late, which one are we watching?
Imagine if there were a terrorist attack
HOST IS A RATIONALIST OH NON NO NO NOO HAHAHAHA
>Towering figures>a lanky>and a fattykek
Fasting moving thread I've ever seen on /lit/.
>>12963303you're just now realizing this lol
>>12963303
WHOO*CLAP CLAP*WHOOOOOOOOOO*CLAP*
NO AUDIO ON YOUTUBE AAAAAAHH
LET'S NOT HEAR IT
Holy shit, the people in the audience are actually excited
>>12958650The crowd is fucking retarded. Why are they cheering over literally everything?
oh my gooood
CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP
>americlapsCan you people just sit down and listen?
Zizek uncomfortable from all the cheering, he knows its a circus and not his ordinary crowd
>>12963326It;s getting me hype tbqhwy
>>12963310zizek is so uncomfortable. fuck, i love him
D I A L E C T I C A L P O W E R
>>12963322>>>/soc/
>>12962904>>12962932>>12962992>>12963020>>12963020t. trannyfa
SHIT IM IN THE FUCKING DEBATE ALIVE, IM THE GUY WITH RED SHIRT
Zizek tired, long flight I guess.
This is so cringe and very aids.
>Žižek facepalminglmao
JBP WON THE MOST CLAPS IN CLAPISTANIT'S OVER
>lubliana
>Jordan Peter->WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
>>12963344Not me
the state of north americans
Is this a ufc match.
>Psychoanalysis >WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOAmericlaps
>>12963331Isn't this in canada?
>professor of psychology>clapping for this
when is the dick size contest?
>>12963334Zizek looks like he hates this so much. I can't contain my cringe either.
>>12963356It should be
Peterson has already won.It's over.
wtf is this crowd? Clap when each is introduced, sure, but for every accomplishment? Jesus christ.
>transcend >human flourishingi hate this guys rhetoric, reminds me of sam harris
>>12960180>radicals in the DSA
>cheering like a WWE crowd for the word "psychoanalysis"i hate this world
there needs to be a final solution for this infantile crowd
mod pls sticky
The foundation for exploration is superior to all the works of both fags
who is this fucking moderator?
>>12963376>americans
>gotta sit through 30 minutes of Peterson to get to Zizekfuck man
>>12963385his best
>>12963367when ur mum comes home
this is fucking ridiculous, embarassing really. They act like it's a fucking boxing match, where you pick a side and cheer as loud as possible.
>>12963376>>12963382>>12963380its american, theyre childrenPeterson needs to tell them to stop
>>12963354>it ain't me starts playing
Have you guys noticed that Peterson has Pellegrino (fancy italian water) while Zizek has ordinary water?CAPITALISM.
>CLAPCLAPCLAP
>Bragging about ticket priceswew
>>12963384based goonan
>proud of ticket scalpingtypical capitalist
>>12963365It says a lot when a whiny faggot like Peterson is seen as a father figure by thousands of young men.
COMMUNIST MANIFESTO about to be DEBUNKED!!!!!!!!!
>already starts the rhetoric>praises zizek and prepares to topple himPeterson is so transparent
>faggots on /lit/ are upset because people are genuinely enthusiastic for knowledge and dialogueYou guys are insufferable.
Oh fuck this is bad
>>12963407With FACTS and REASON
>this debate was put together in relatively short orderHe's literally trying to cushion his fall...
lol this is crap
>>12963385Only nonwhites may be moderators of public debates in the West.
waiting for Peterson to admit that Zizek is one hundred percent right and concede the debate
this is fucking hilarious
>lel commie manifesto is crapbased>>12963409this
>over thirty books vs two self-help guides for teensit's pretty sad when you put it like that
>>12963409Of course I'm upset. I wanted live shitposting.
Peterson smiles in childish glee as he recounts the economic success of his atrocity exhibition
lmao
why do people hate peterson?
Literal pamphlet is "going under the hood" for Peterson
>>12963409>knowledge and dialogueZizek's not speaking yet.
wow pederstein is really going all out
YOU NEED TO THINK ABUOT THE THINKING IN ORDER TO THINK CRITICALLY ABOUT HOW TO THINK ABOUT THINGS THAT YOU THINK ABOUT
>>12963409we're watching, aren't we?
>>12963430hes been speaking 5 mins of pure bullshit
god peterson is such a retard
>>12963424hundreds of hours of lectures on youtube
Why is Peterson so intelectually dishonest?
>>12963409>knowledge>dialogueWhat are two things that will not be featured in the Peterson-Zizek debate, Alex?
>Topic is happiness>Let's do a literary critique of the Communist Manifestohuh
sniff
Communist manifesto BTFO
>>12963431the absolute state of peterson
>>12963430Just butthurt neo-bolsheviks
>>12963449kek
>>12963430Cause they're not stupid.
>>12963430Just being a contrarian in typical 4chan manner
Pedroson already strawmanning, kek.
Pure polemics already, im not even a marxist
>>12963442THE THING THAT YOU THINK THAT APPEARS WHEN YOU THINK THAT APPEARS IN FRONT OF YOU WHEN YOU THINK
Pretty cringe from Peterson so far desu, and I'm a foaming-at-the-mouth neocameralist
people actually paid for this shit?
LOOOOL Peterson is such a retard.Communist Manifesto is viewed by academics seriously !! -- PROBABLY!!????
>>12963451Imagine wanting to be intellectually honest lmfao
THIS IS CRINGE
>when Das Kapital was too long so you read the Communist Manifesto insteadreactionary intellectuals everyone
>>12963453Yeah, this fucking hurts to watch
He's shaking, is he going to die?
Dialectics BTFO XD
History..
>reducing Zizek's thought to Marx and not just Marx but a fucking agitprop pamphletGOD FUCKING DAMN IT JORDAN
I wonder what zizek is thinking right now
this is what they took from us
>>12963480this
>some people will still say peterson isn't a complete hack
Peterfag is too lazy to actually read Zizek or Das Kapital so he had to talk about The Communsist Manifesto
>>12963480>peterson>reactionary
>twitch comments and /lit/ are samethats spooky
>>12963480Well, not lobster-fag but reading capital in a month is impossible unless you want to end your social life.
what has peterson even said so far? Genuinly, hes sounding circular and verbose
Peterson is SHAKING being faced by the pure AURA of lord ZIZI....Will he survive or whither??Will he manage to debunk the COMMUNIST MANIFESTO?So many questions to be answered, cant wait!!
>per say
what if zizek dies from listening to this before getting to speak?
did the topic change or something? Why is he talking about communism? Fucking hell this was supposed to be about happiness, an actual interesting topic.
>>12963217Thank you for the link. Listening live now.
zizek really should have opened
Didn't even get to the main course yet and Lobster's already making me choke on his wordsalad.
JP has already lost and he knows it lmaoWaiting to see if Zizek is going to lose as well or whether he's actually read up on Peterson or analyzed his following and is prepared to make his strike
STOOOOOOPP PETERSON
Peterson is giving me anxiety, he reminds me when i bombed at uni when i had to do a short presentation on my essay which was completely made of 100% fluff.
Argumentum ad Lobsterium
he doesn't look prepared
God imagine if Nick Land was up there debating accelerationism with Zizek instead of... thisThat's the debate that should've happened
He sounds like he's going to start crying. I feel sorry for him.
>>12963507yes he did, fucking hack
Lmao this is so embarrassing.
S A N C R O S A C T
Is he crying
>>12963516THIS
"There's a lot of mysteries left to be unsolved."The most profound statement Petersen will make all night
>>12963492>listening to fr*nchmen
we're Actually ALways AT ODDS with NAture!
>>12963430Personally I hate how he deliverately deceives people with made up jargon in order to put his shitty ideas on the table, generally taking adventage of young and emotionally immature people who would be way better without him and getting actual help. It almost feels like he's a scammer who's just trying to sell his book.
Primary struggle is the struggle for LIFE in the CRUEL NATURAL WORLD. ZIZEK BTFO
>>12963514Poor Zizek :(
Alirght, what's the problem with the human nature argument?
He's intelectually boiling himself LMAO
>>12963511>Waiting to see if Zizek is going to lose as wellgood way of putting it. Peterson's already fucking lost his mind, but Zizek might just be crazier. We must wait and see.
Anyone keeping up with the Bingo?
is the youtube stream without echo???
>doesnt even make a point>clap mid sentencethis is why debates should be banned from the public
>>12963523oh shit that would be interesting
>>12963516I think he's getting it back on track but there's no way he gets through 10 points
>>12963523Nick is too chad for those two hacks
>>12963523Nick Land is a brainlet furry and nobody even reads him. he's just the cyberpunk mascot for crypto racism and pretentious (deleuzian) strands of marxism
There is literally nothing wrong with what Peterson has said.
>>12963505*per se
>>12963523Boomer Land's brain is broken from all the polydrug cock-tails he rhizomatically connected with his nose machine
Is Peterson going to cry again??
>>12963548you dont deserve to be told better sources oyu illiterate zoomer
Normies clapping to stop Peterson
>clap
People are literally laughing listening to Peterson. Embarassing!
>>12963559kek
This is high school level presentation. The guy knows next to nothing about Marx. He wouldn't pass an exam on philosophy.
>>12963492If this is our generation's Chomsky v Foucault, we're done for.
Zizek's breaking him with his weird mind powers
>>12963555this
>>12963555He hasn't said pretty much anything though
>>12963430He says things that imply a necessary conclusion or consequence, but he never actually says what the conclusion itself is. And when people say "well the logical conclusion to that is X, so are you saying that X?" he'll go "no, that's not what I said" and dodges all criticism.Plus his audience is insufferable.
>>12963560REEEEEE
>>12963555true, but he said the right thing very poorly. This is a live debate, and that matters.
Why is peterson stumbling up on his words? He is a good orator
why dont people like peterstein? hes right about some stuff tbqh
MARXISM IS A FLAWED ECONOMIC CRITIQUE BECAUSE IT ISN'T AN EXISTENTIAL DOCTRINE ABOUT MAN VS NATURE LMAO
why do these people go out of the way to be verbose? Its like they hate third worlders.
I can’t wait for zizek to destroy him
>>12963543It hurts poor people's feelings : (
over/under on peterson making a pithy comment about marxs alcohol problems
>>12963585hes tackling all of marx, too big a tax mentally
>muh kulakselite critique of communism
official stream numbers are dropping precipitously
Did Memerson even prepare for this?
>when you realize that the right wingers are so anti-intellectual they will actually eat this all up because anything said by Zizek will go over their heads and the meme lobster man said communism bad so of course he's right
Zizek should just yield his time back to Peterson to further BTFO himself
>>12963548no they're recording with 2 mics probably. They have one mic in the room that picks up reverb, the other one is a direct feed from jordan's mouth. That being said this is shamefully bad. His critique of marxism is apparently breaking down 10 little lines from a pamphlet. Zizek is gonna absolutely rape him, and rightly so.
>>12963586we don't value self-help here
very very bad idea
>THE KULAKSwow
Still, he did make a good move - he started not by explaining his position, but by criticizing what Žižek is supposed to argue for.
>bergsh wah zie
>>12963555We must've been watching two different streams
Jordan Peterson's career goes down the drain tonightThis is the part of the Netflix documentary where the image goes slow mo and black and white and Trent Reznor ambient starts playing
>>12963611very bad folks, not good
>>12963607Being an intellectual is gay though
>wooo >claps>laugh
did anyone save the bingo chart from a few threads back? It's worth posting again in the new thread when it arrives
>>12963608did he prepare for this debate
My God, Peterson is dying out there
Better debate idea:TED vs TED
*smacks lips*
>>12963607every stream chat is laughing at Peterson you idiot
>>12963614Ok lil' Ben, but it's past your bedtime.
>Peterson struggles for the first 5 minutes of a 30 minute monologue>hurr BTFOshut the fuck up
This is very painful to watch. This is like a highschooler giving a presentation he hasnt prepared for
>le humans - nature false dichotomyBASED RETARD
so what is this debate about? I thought it was about happiness not Marxism.
hilarious whenever zizek is shown
>A PRIORI
>>12963543Nobody truly knows what it means, and if you analize the concept from an historical stand point it has been used to justify the current ruling ideology of that period of time.It's funny, because what >>12963593 it's actually true. Conservacucks get really annoying when you point that out.
>>12963643what has he said?
should just watch this later to skip all the cringe
Nuke this fucking crowd already
>>12963624nice meme
>>12963607right wingers love zizek
>the the the
>>12963634he read Wikipedia
Can somebody reply to this post when Zizek starts speaking, this is pure drivel.
>>12963643kys, lobster
God peterson just stop, i like you guy but this is so badly constructed it is eschatological
>>12963655huge moment
I began feeling bad for Peterson.
>>12963643is he going to go on for 30 mins? goddamm
He's criticizing binariestopkek
Better debate idea
wtf i hate lacanian hegelianism now cant believe they killed all those kulaks
>>12963608žiž should just start telling jokes from when he was serving in the yugo army.
Peterson has been doing okay so far
yawn everyone already knows communist thought is offensively ignorant of the actual specifics of history or anthropology and requires deranged and consent generalizations to even function. Peterson's analysis is pointless and has been done before better.
*clapping*>burgers
why are there so many fucking bottles of water
>>12963610why
>peterson is an incel philosoph-
>mfw you managed to catch petersteins absolute downfall on stream cant complain
>Zizek memeing with the moderator in the backgroundkek
>>12963688I will lose my shit if he actually does that or tells the "cutting the balls" one. The absolute madman.
he just brought up a very good point. took him 20 minutes.
>>12963679PROSTITUTES
Econ grad student hereWhy are psychologists discussing which economic system is better? Please explain
>>12963697they're for sale with autographs
>>12963682only if he had 4chan back then. He wouldn't have to send bombs to newspaper companies.
>>12963691How are you posting garbage wrong opinions here and speak on the panel at the same time?
Prophet is THEFT
>>12963708what was it i missed it?
>>12963717based and redpilled
Does Peterson literally not know what modern communism is?
>>12963607I'm right wing and I like Zizek
>>12963708>20 minutesholy fuck, wonder if he's gonna even have time to get to the main point
Jesus, I fucking hate reddit
>>12963739tell us anon. What is it?
MARKETING
>>12963717I think Peterson had a brain fart and misunderstood the point of the debate or is chosing to take it to a retarded direction
>>12963607i'm also more right than left and admire Zizek
>>12963753gay as fuck, but in a good way
>>12963733you didn't, if you catch my drift
>>12963717good thing economic systems aren't made of people
>>12963691I agree. Peterson has fucked up massively here. He should have gone for the approach that Zizek is likely to go to. Just set up an entertaining story that tangentially touches the main point a few times and make it entertaining.wtf is he even doing with this approach? 10 points, wtf?It's like his verbal IQ has halved
>>12963733basically marxists become just as corrupt as capitalists when they get to power because of societal pressure, exactly the reason they attributed to capitalism's corruption.basically sartre's l'engrenage
>>12963717Because they're making an argument about which economic system would make people happier, which is a subject not for econometrics, but more near the field of study of philosophy, psychology or sociology.
marketing disproves labor theory of value
i got 10$ down on bakunin btfoing marx coming up at some point. no clue why but i feel it in my balls
>>12963717Neither of them is a real psychologist. It's more of a philosophical debate here. Also, economy produces people that clearly are not as interesting as these two.
>>12963717>he doesn't know capital is sentient
He's not prepared
Peterson hasn't even read Bataille...
Make him stop
>>12963681BUT WE ALSO NEED TO DECONSTRUCT THE CLASS BINARY
>all these commies in the comment section saying the labor theory is right
>there are unironic commies ittcringe
>>12963773That's not a good or authentic to reality point at all.
>>12963607>right-wingers are all dumbFlipping the NPC meme around doesn't suddenly make it a solid intellectual position
>you you you
> 10 pointsLiteral state of Petersonfags
Absolutely useless muppet. Wonder if Zizek will be just as pathetic. 7th years offer more entertaining debates than this shit.
>the quality of the posts in this thread are on the same level of youtube comments Really nogs my jogs.
>>12963796>there are unironic peterson fans ITTcringe
I can't...
>>12963798>not an authentic to reality point at alllol
i could be reading harry potter right now
>>12963796/lit/ has always been a place for the left-wing. you must be new on this lands.
>>12963796based
seems like such a waste to book Slavoj Zizek and then treat him like some kind of spokesman for classical Marxism
>>12963795>>12963796>actual unironic newfags
>>12963777>which is a subject not for econometrics, but more near the field of study of philosophy, psychology or sociology.Except it's EXACTLY the purpose of economics. Economics deal with welfare (call it welfare, utility, happiness - same thing).
I'm glad he's addressing communism directly instead of happiness. This is Zizek's chance to fuck him up, if he's the thinker Zizekfags think he is.
Dostoevsky "we were built fo truba" pottery
>>12963827Nice revisionism
what was the actual topic?
>peterson misses the topic of the discussion and starts talking about marxism for some reason>zizek next is gonna talk about some shit i won't be able to pay attention to because of his serious lisp and accentwaste of my time desu
>>12963827>unironically believing this
>>12963843I was talking about YouTube not here brainlet
>>12963813are watching the stream its old Peterson gibberish not much to comment on
Oh my god...wait--lmao wait what does he not understand marx at all?
>>12963772It's like he's setting up the tee for zizek to take a good swingThis is what debates should be
>he isn't a monarchistabsolutely blue pilled
communism and capitalism are both fucking retardedthe only way forward is unironic national socialism
it's, like, seriously flawed
>Dostoevsky oh boy here we go
Memerson is criticizing a badly written book only do it to serve a fast propaganda for revolution ffs
>>12963853entire 4chan was left-wing prior to Obama (at which point it turned right-wing because muh contrarianism)t.oldfag
>try to fast-forward to see if anything interesting is said>oh wait it's livehelp
>>12963867>itt>youtubebased brainlet
>>12963826Feels like a waste to watch this in general when I could be reading
Peterson -- Thinker on the BROAD SCALE!!!
>>12963784Isn't it intelligent but not sentient? Or both?
... Stop...
>>12963859the jews and you
It's pretty sad because Zizek is probably too interested in an actual debate to do a tl;dr response calling out all this bullshit one by one.
>>12963892check my post again
lol, thinks marx never looked back over what he said in communist manifesto
>>12963881>>>/r/milliondollarextreme
I cannot believe how much he misunderstands the point about capitalism producing commodities in excess. Literally Marx's whole point is that we SHOULD let capitalism play itself out.
wtf i love capitalism now
thread still hasn't archived wtf
>>12963889OHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHA
>>12963915Yeah I'm based and yeah I'm redpilled
>>12963853>>12963866>>12963843
>>12963881So capitalism with a nationalistic face.
>>12963846>(call it welfare, utility, happiness - same thing).This is why economists aren't qualified for this debate
Imagine actually paying money to watch this
>>12963917that worked out didnt it hahaahahahahahahhaahha
>>12963905That's the intent.
LUXURY GAY SPACE COMMUNISM WHEN?
has peterson never read marx and is pretending he knows anything or did he read it and not understand it
>>12963922This isn't /pol/
Peterson has the most brainlet takes what the fuck
>>12963889Nope it was liberal, not leftist
Zizek going to tear Peterson a new arsehole
>peterson criticizes Marx>"nuh uh Marx didn't say that">Marx actually did say thathehehehe
>China doesn't produce wealth
My god, has it really been thirty minutes already.
do people here like zizek because they're marxists or because they just think he's funny
BLOODY UN
>>12963953Most people on 4chan mean "liberal" when they say "leftist"
>>12963881national socialism just implements state intervention capitalism, retard.
I dont dishagree with what *schniff* petershun ish saying
>>12963962China is as capitalist as you get, retard.
>>12963917>Literally Marx's whole point is that we SHOULD let capitalism play itself out.No it isn't you illiterate cretin.
the fuck are these laughs
this is painful
>>12963962They did, using some capitalist means
>>12963889You don't remember how /new/ used to be?
>>12963966yep
>>12963973nop
what's with the condescending laughs? why are commies so smug despite killing millions?
I'll be honest he brought that back around there in the end, good job Jordanstill not on topic though
>>12963671you
SHIT FINALLY LET'S SEE HOW PETERSON IS DESTROYED!
>>12963978>not true communism
HERE WE GO. LET SCHNIFFING BEGIN!
>now im gonna closethank fuck hes almost done>ive got three minutes leftfak
SNIFF
>>12963978Imbecil. I would respond but Zizek will speak and I don't want to miss out.
>>12963889You're right but I think what changed was the point of reference. If you went back 10 years ago, current 4chan would still be left-wing.
>>12963962>China is purely communistcome on, man
>>12963671:)
>"the poorer are not getting poorer under capitalism"
Why Zizek has a chair, fucking bourgeois
COKEHEAD'S UP
>>12963980Yes it is, this is why he advocated for free trade and other such accelerationist measures.
finally
>Just reading out a pre-prepared speech
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA WTF IS HIS ACCENT
>that echodid they even do a sound check
>>12963995based american education
>>12964014>>12963999>unmuted just to hear him spew statisticsYikes, but thanks lads.
Am I the only unironic national socialist here who still likes Zizek
>>12964026he can't risk not plagiarizing himself
>>12964003Anon, pro-capitalists (rightfully) cite China as an example of capitalism triumphing because turning to capitalism saved the country.
>>12963657Human nature absolutely has enumerable attributes and a scope. People who deny this also have a political agenda: social engineering in service of a power grab.
>>12964026I'm higher IQ than both these people. I wouldn't last 30 minutes but I'd get some philosophical zingers no doubt. And I haven't even prepared
>>12964032it's unbearable idk if it's just the 'bootleg' streams or what
>>12964018He's 70
Here we go boys
SUFFERIN' SUCCOTASH
honeslty people are so fucking disrespectful and childish today. i hate to be the cranky 30 year old boomer but that cheering during the introduction and the cheering for bloody revolution and the snarky laughing at peterson saying poor are getting richer is so fucking sickeninghe's wrong, i understand, but fuck them
>>12964015its trur though
>>12963923Do not post breasts
>DUEL OF THE CENTURYLMAO
>People in China are happyOH BOY
>psychoanalysisyikes
The may forth movement was as modernizing as you can get what is this crap, dont forget marxism was the future once commie
this nigga speaking on-topic deadass
Just to be sure... 动态网自由门 天安門 天安门 法輪功 李洪志 Free Tibet 六四天安門事件 The Tiananmen Square protests of 1989 天安門大屠殺 The Tiananmen Square Massacre 反右派鬥爭 The Anti-Rightist Struggle 大躍進政策 The Great Leap Forward 文化大革命 The Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution 人權 Human Rights 民運 Democratization 自由 Freedom 獨立 Independence 多黨制 Multi-party system 台灣 臺灣 Taiwan Formosa 中華民國 Republic of China 西藏 土伯特 唐古特 Tibet 達賴喇嘛 Dalai Lama 法輪功 Falun Dafa 新疆維吾爾自治區 The Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region 諾貝爾和平獎 Nobel Peace Prize 劉暁波 Liu Xiaobo 民主 言論 思想
lmao, he already talked about his china argument in this livestream https://youtu.be/8Y9-9AkQV-c
I need a transcript
>>12964081wtf my internet just cut out
>>12964060>honeslty people are so fucking disrespectful and childish today. i hate to be the cranky 30 year old boomer but that cheering during the introduction and the cheering for bloody revolution and the snarky laughing at peterson saying poor are getting richer is so fucking sickeningthis
>>12964026It's already way better than Peterson's speech
>>12964067This is like Mayweather vs Pacquaio
>>12964090wtf but you're posting on the internet rn?
>he actually addresses the fucking topic, happinesswew
>DONALD DRUMPFwhere's the bingo chart.
ORANGE MAN BADHONK
>>12964060The clapping is retarded I agree
>5 minutes in and already going into american politics
>actually speaking on topicOk, maybe this won't be a waste of time after all.
Peterson has fallen in love with Zizek
>>12964097cope
do you guys think he woke up from bed today and cringed at what he wrote on that paper last night?
>so to prepare for this debate I did some research on Zizek, which was no small order sicne he is a highly original thinker and a highly prolific one>so instead I read the communist manifesto>and let me tell you, I found a lot of mistakes, probably more mistakes than in any other manifesto
another Dosto reference lel
>>12964124>>12964112Zizek is doing everything but addressing the topic
PURE
>RELIGION BAD LMAO
will this be zizek greatest and most straightforward moment?
is philosphy just using a lot of words to basically say nothing?
nooo white left liberals he's tearing into us
>redditors paid $82500 to watch the livestream
wait why are we talking about cucks now
is he defending cuckoldry
>scapegoat theoryY I K E S
>>12964172unironically yes
>>12964153More listening, less shitposting brainlet.
"We are in this mess because of the Jews. That is what I would like to insist on" - Slavoj Zizek
/lit/ sucks because of the jews
Slavoj "Hitler was a good story teller" Zizek
>>12964200The pathology of the husband, according to zizek, is bad, and its from that pathology that he enjoys learning that his wife is cheating on him.
>>12964235"Behind every genocide is a poet"- Slavoj Zizek
BASED slavoj, hitler should have got the nobel years agothe jews took it away from him I bet
Why are all the leftists in chat obsessed with trans rights? I.e. liberalism
>>12964235>You will never sit around a campfire while uncle hitler tells you stories about the jews
>unironically defending cultural marxismYikes!
>all this Peterson fanboys listening to Zizek for the first timeLol. He has made this very same points before.
>>12964269It's a memedumb meme, but okay
dude fuck trump
>>12964269Because they're all trannies (srs)
"Donald Trump is a fetish" - Slavoj Zizek, 2019
>that fucking peterson lean
>>12964294trump is a mood t b h
>>12961709Chomsky offers up pseudo science in linguistics and boring interviews with whatever he's recently read. He's not that great. Manufacture of Consent is about the only interesting thing I think he came up with.
Zizek = 4chanPeterson = 4channel
this blowstheyre not even gonna respond to one another
>>12964278Idk, they seem pretty genuine. It's like they don't realise that "trans rights" is a liberal position
>>12964325I fucking hate thots spamming MOOD all the time on instagram
Lobsters!!Who has the bingo?
Zizek has said nothing so far
>and so on and so on>*schniff*
and sho on *shniff*
>>12964374high iq tripfag
the gays are bad cheese..?
>>12964374He has said more than Peterson
can we just skip the speech part
>>12964374he went from what I thought would be a point, to errors sometimes being good, to sexuality. I forgot what his original point was about to be.
>>12964396The real debate was all the friends we made
>>12964399he's talking about the creation of new productive hierarchies, gutting peterson from below
>>12964374i'm listening to this shit and nothing at all is sticking
>>12964374they both haven't
>>12964343It's hilarious because he's reading a previously prepared speech but he actually managed to anticipate Peterson's drivel so accurately he did in fact respond to his random bullshit misconceptions about communism, communism supposedly becoming mainstream now and arguments to nature.
Did I miss something?
>>12964374you're not educated/intelligent enough to understand it, but he has said 10x more than Jordan already.
How fucking jittery does Peterson have to be to make Zizek look like a good rhetorician lol
You thought I wouldn't show up?
JESUS BTFO
HE SAID IT
>>12963393ybderrated
competence to raise the dead doesn't count hmmm
this is so much worse than i thought it would be. they are not gonna address the other person once are they
>>12964441based and knight of faith pilled
Zizek prepared
>>12964460Too dangerous to their brands.
Peterson is playing fortnight now
>>12964460this is how debates work lol, opening statement and then discussion
>>12964434About authority, but what does that have to do with happiness?
>peterson just playing fortnite
>>12964459If Ziz says nigger we get a bingo, come on!
I thought that Peterson would show up super prepared and Zizek would wing it.
>>12964479*fortnite
who are some decent modern philospphers who are not these two hacks?
>>12964482Probably more than rambling about a pamphlet
>>12964505
>>12964505AgambenSloterdijkMe
How long is this supposed to go on for?
D I G I T A L I Z A T I O N
>>12964505Stick to youtube videos on philosophy if you think that Zizek is a hack.
>>12964482He's saying authority can be necessary/conducive to happiness or true freedom
>>12964460yeah this sucksthey need to do like 5 min speed rounds or mud wrestle or soemthing
Witness the degradation of human intelligence that modern philosophers obsession with vast abstraction has led to, what a powerful brain turned to analysis on a scale totally without meaning
>>12964505Nick Land unironically
>>12964530who's the last one, anon?
>>12964507A pamphlet made by MarxMarx, admittedly, wasn't much of a Marxist, but still.
Why are lefties obsessed with trans rights?
>>12964541make this debate topless and i take back all my criticism
>>12964559(ironically)
>>12964530Thanks anon
>>12964505Yuk Hui
What the fuck is Zizek's point on? Why is he reading from a script only?
>>12964433Zizek 100% mentioned Stalin
>>12964565because they're the trannies
>>12964587I think that was peterson
Slavoj "refugees to the manatees" Zizek
oh here we go
okay now the fight startsBEATDOWN BEATDOWN
peterson is dead what the heck
COLLAPSE INCOMING
>Zizek is too complex for Petersonholy shit, he just conceded.
Absolutely fucking bodied
Wow I think Zizek wins by mostly confusing me and not giving me anxiety like Peterson did
*clapping*>no don't clap you retards*more clapping*
has there ever been a thread this active on /lit/
>>12964562I
CRINGESON ADMITTED HE DIDNT READED ZIZEK
>>12964596Why are so many lefties trannies?
>>12964643Zizek gave me a headache with his voice, but Peterson made me think I was gonna watch someone have a heartattack on stage. Dunno witch is better.
>I didn't know I wasn't going to be arguing against a living copy of the communist manifesto
>>12964665how. how does this happen. how can you be this stupid
>>12964611He talked about stalinism sucking
>>12964679kek
peterson is actually doing okay
>>12964692Why?
>>12964671because liberation takes responsibility from a system of morals to the individual and individuals are bad at regulating themselves wrt intrusive thoughts and pathological/deviant desires
>>12964727hasn't had a heart attack
>>12964727he is making reasonable pointslike the one about avoiding misery
>>12964745key-key-key-key-key-key-key
>>12964671Because the other side is mean to them, the lefties just dislike them but tries to be polite to them
>>12964459check off equality of outcome
>>12964727He's being coherent and to the point and his arguments actually make sense based on historical and statistical evidence.
Is peterson going to keep on making 'well capitalism isn't perfect but it's the best thing we've got' tier arguments all the way through this debate? Jesus christ.
>>12964769
>>12964777TRIPS
I wish someone would actually make a full throated defence of merciless Victorian capitalism rather than technocratic social democracy (like peterson is)
Is there going to be an intermission?
>>12964777Zizek actually agrees with that to some degree. Especially when it comes to economics and standard of life.
>>12964780SAY IT
Peterson was pretty reasonable desu.
>>12964816No shit, but this is an argument for a reddit effort post not an actual intellectual debate.
>>12964831He actually made his case
>>12964780unrelated joke just now?
>>12964759Maybe we should be mean to trannies though? Lefties just presuppose that acceptance is the correct course of action (a liberal position)
>>12964780i think unrelated joke and mentioning a book nobody has read can get checked
Holy shit Peterson is actually having a real debate with a real opponent.
>>12964863
>>12964896
If you want to know why Zizek sniffs and picks at his shirt later in the event and not at the beginning it's because he snorts a line of Adderall before he goes onstage. It takes a bit of time to kick in and cause post-nasal drip.
Peterson looks like he's going to cry tears of joy
>>12964928
>>12964928lololol
>>12964928Edit 'What Is To Be Done?' onto it
>Zizek defending the ApartheidI guess he is based after all.
i cant get over the amount of water bottles, is this shit supposed to last days?
>>12964960based
>>12964970We wish
>>12964970those are peterson's pee bottles for sale
Slavoj "Make Zimbabwe Rhodesia Again" Zizek
>>12964991i cannot take much more of the sniffing and petersons serious face
peterson gonna suck zizeks dick
Jesus Zizek is having fun with him
Now they're just blowing each other. It's kind of sweet, but I was looking forward to some bloodsport
i say we throw in david graebers annoying lip smacking to total this whole thing
>HUMOROUS, CHARISMATIC, AND ATTRACTIVE
>>12965034Zizek has absolutely pulverized him
Holy shit, Peterson, just say you lost and leave! Fuck, this is so embarrassing. The left won this, they won this hard...
Guys i think jordan has a crush on Zizek
>>12965043PREPTHE BULL
Marx was a genius but most Marxists are morons who don't get his work. Zizek kind of understands this
>>12965075kind of ?
HEGEL GANG
>>12965043oh fuck peterson keep going im gonna pop
>LET ME RESPOND
lololol, PEte legit going in for anti-free speech / limiting intellectual debate
AOC DISS COMING UP
ZIZEK SAY IT, FINALLY SAY IT
Zizek is going full white supremacist
My Friday night? *snorts superiorly* I post on a literary forum with fellow intellectual internet commenters. Tonight we're observing a debate between a Marxist critician and a post-Christian conservative pundit. Perhaps a mischievous pixie will post his cum-bottle
HYPER-MORALIST MARXISM
IS ZIZEK FUCKING RETARD? Can he answer why he affilities with marx more then starts his own shit...HE CHANGED SUBJECT
You are an idiot peterson!
WHERE ARE THE MARXIST
>Zizek asking for names
Badiou is the guy he's talking about
the virgin sit
>>12965164theres like 12 cum bottles on stage
Holy shit he's getting BTFO'd so hard
>>12965177he literally said he was gonna ask a question and peterson said go ahead
>>12965213THIS MAKES ME ANGWY
"I'm not politely telling you that you are an idiot" - guy who is politely telling you that you are idiot
Slavoj "The jannies are trannies" Zizek
Approaching 1000 comrades
Pseudson completely BODIED
>>12965270>comradesnigger
Aha!Neo-marxism should better be termed neo-sorrelismEureka
>>12965270I've never hit 1000 on a non stickied threads. What happens?
>he actually made a stalinist joke Ok there it is folks
"It's no wonder you don't get invited to lots of places"
peterson has a small mind, he really just doesn't like SJ(dubs)
FUCK NIGGERS
This is a smackdown a la Socrates
J U D E O C H R I S T I A N
Friendly reminder Zizek only started thinking about this a few days prior to the event.
GIVE ME NAMES
>>12965360^This is the thousandth post
>>12965360
next question should be: "when was the last time you fucked"That's really all we want to know.
>when niggas talking shit on your boy karl
>>12965367Excuses by the man who had it coming when all his grievances were with small mind ideologs
>>12965367Peterson is so americanThis is so much better than Chomsky, vs FoucaultAmerican and euro thinking actually understanding each other
They're both shilling for the jews!!J U D E O
>Zizek says Judeochristian
>>12965443You have zizeks permission to see the Jews behind everything m8
unironically thought peterson said "that's why cuba has arabs"
Zizek "South Africa should be white"
peterson becomes students of zizek after this
>>12965483"That's why cupid has arrows"
ThReE QuEsTiOnS zIzEk
zizek is the primer intellectual of the alt-right and on the verge of joining the post-Marxist Hegelian neoreactionary movement
The esoteric secret behind this debate that makes it so delightful is it's a lacanian and jungian talking shop
>>12965595lol wtf
Zizek is right that nobody wants to see an audience q&a
>>12965618There's an art installation in germany that claims to be about the "alt-right"By it's standards, traditional Marxist Leninism is alt-rightThis is how constrained liberal/radlib discourse is, alt-right from that position is everything that steps outside it
>>12965618Stick to chapo, brainlet. You're not ready for where Zizek's headed
So what is the solution from either of those 2 hacks for pic related?
Communism is extreme right now. It was invented by a German after all.
>>12965768Banning politics
>>12965768Have sex.
>>12965768Watch this debate again and again comrade once it's up for replayThe answer socially isn't going to be answered, but the answer to your woes is thereIf you understand what they're both saying you can get gf, won't be easy but you can
ZEN AT WAR shoutout, gang book
Is it just me or this became a really comfy debate?
>>12965768Become trangender (no joke)
"coming from online"
>>12965931They started talking about happiness instead of economic systems, which as psychoanalysts primarily they're both more comfortable discussing.
>>12965943
>>12965931Absolutely Zizek I think was very diplomatic as well and set a friendly tone and P went alongAlso that’s a spicy meme right there
Loved Zizek's last point
>those homo suits
>>12965931Should have been "who is haygel"
>you just know
>>12966033kek
>>12966033why are his trousers so short?
>>12966020what was it
Need to rewatch this debate again to really get some of zizek's points. He truly is based as fuck.
>>12965768state mandated gfs
>>12966050they aren't. if you've ever worn a suit you'd know that the trousers are made to suit your legs when you're standing, not when you're sitting down/legs crossed. the trousers would look ridiculous.
>>12965931yes
>>12964433They did mention the phrase 'equality of outcome', but neither seemed to support the notion.
>Replies: 1049Fuck, has there been a longer thread on /lit/?
>>12966151different anon, here's my last one.
>>12966196Sadly it was a very shitty thread.
>>12966196katie
>>12966223What was the zizek trans joke, did I miss it?
>>12965980Which was the topic and I wish they actually started with that instead of what their opening statements actually were. Especially Peterson's pointless critique of the communist manifesto
>>12965062Zizek isn't really "left" anymore. Practically everything he says is in alignment with the alt-right, except for the JQ and historical narratives about the third Reich.
>>12966455>still buys into the left right paradigmGreetings from /pol/ new friend :)
>>12966537That's why I put "left" in quotes and compared his dialectic to the alt-right (with qualifiers): the alt-right is not right-conservative.Seems the person still trapped in that paradigm is you.
>>12966615There is no alt-rightalt-right is just the term NPCs use to describe the normal people who can think
>>12966957i would debate but you've already taken the lazy approach
>>12964335holy...
https://www.strawpoll.me/17850950https://www.strawpoll.me/17850950https://www.strawpoll.me/17850950
>>12958650 Zizek is a Chinese shill
>>12968824The Chinese managed to go from a Commie shithole to a fairly economically successful Capitalism-based situation. Their social situation is unforgiveable however, and their persecution of Muslims is unacceptable and this is coming from someone who HATES the religion of Islam. Seriously, fuck that shit, it's barbaric and backwards and the civilization it spawned is nowhere NEAR as good as the West or Asia.China 50 years ago vs China now is undoubtedly a far greater improvement than the West 50 years ago and the West now. That seems pretty damn obvious as to why. Their authoritarian leadership, I don't consider it a benefit. CLEARLY, considering what he's doing with the Muslims, and even worse, the Buddhists and my fellow Christians. Return Capitalism to Venezuela and I'm certain they will become the richest country in South America again in a few years or decades. Would he praise him then, if he lived long enough?