/lit/ - Literature

Frankfurt school had blatant intentions to control people using their passions, and endeavored to find ways influence what those passions are to create manufactured consent. One of the big goals was instilling a relativistic worldview so they can more easily change what passions they are targeting. I think an issue some have is they think the frankfurt school was just a bunch of garbage akin to "abstract modern art" or whatever and not malicious brainwashing agendas.

>>12960748
Actually they opposed commodified trash art, although they had terrible taste. Adorno whined about jazz while extolling Shoenberg

>>12960696
there was no "inversion", everything makes just as much sense as a continuum and if that invalidates everything before so be it

>>12960748
adorno was literally so uptight he felt uneasy because of jazz music and thought you shouldn't laugh after auschwitz, that's not relativism

>>12960805
Adorno would have applauded jazz if it were a Jewish thing

>>12960794
Adorno was right about jazz and i like the theory he wrote the Beatles songs

>>12960845
Richard Weaver was more right about jazz because his critique of music is consistent into classical, whereas Adorno's is literally just elitism

>>12960794
I didn't mention their art views, I said in the minds of some who think the frankfurt school is anathema they view it as the equivalent of modern art, as if the works produced are all just garbage and just worthy of contempt and not actual understanding to combat it.

>>12960805
The frankfurt school were arguing in bad faith. They were psychologists trying to brainwash people, their individual beliefs don't have to line up with their intended objective. Relativism never manifests as an "anything goes" mentality, it just lets you create what becomes the social norms and if it's questioned on moral or practical grounds relativism is used as a defense. The relativism has to be defacto objective but become more lax when they intend to alter the standards.

>>12960845
>i like the theory he wrote the Beatles songs
a '''theory''' tends to have some grounding in reality otherwise the timecube guy is just another '''theorist''' amongst many

>>12960896
>arguing in bad faith
maybe you are? invoking a secret objective (unless you're claiming they were also "'unconscious"' of their own true objective) doesn't seem like something people tend to successfully hide behind a comically diabolically complex life long corpus... it's takes good faith to take arguments at face value

>>12960985
The objective isn't secret, it's right there in the writing and in the intent. Frankfurt school were mostly just psychologists, they applied their theories, the writing often had hints of contempt for their guinea pigs for functioning in such an exploitable way, like the culture industry for example.

>>12961060
what's the objective here?
https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/adorno/1944/culture-industry.htm
it's just a critical inquiry into how society functions. any '''application''' goes beyond the inquiry and you're outside the frankfurt school then

>>12961107
>any '''application''' goes beyond the inquiry and you're outside the frankfurt school then
Fuck off

I never got the whole cultural marxism thing. How can we live in a "culturally" marxist society when we live under capitalism? If these guys could easily change culture then why not go ahead and complete the rest of Marxism?

>>12961145
you can use theories to do things never intended.

>>12961168
>why not go ahead and complete the rest of Marxism?
They don't want to. Capitalism is better for control and stability.

>>12960696
Adorno writes about how capitalism and its culture industry destroy all that's great about western civilization and now a bunch of antisemitic nerds online accuse him of destroying western civilization. Never really understood this.

>>12961107
He's literally complaining about the same things as /pol/tards except he is calling it cultural capitalism

>>12961199
So they are actually Capitalists then? ok

>>12961203
Adorno also applied his and other theories of the Frankfurt school, most notably in post war Germany as part of the rehabilitation process. Identifying "bad" things doesn't mean they want to stop those things, they want to abuse it. See the Prince by Machiavelli for example.

>>12961199
this makes no sense
youre assuming retarded evil

>>12961168
It means instead of economic exploitation they posit various 'soft' forms of exploitation- race, gender, etc. I say soft because it's harder to objectively see them as classes the way the proletariat and capitalists are.

It's a stupid term that only causes flamewars and should be abandoned

>>12961232
They are modernists. The frankfurts schools goal was dismantling the old structures and imposing new ones that would be more beneficial for them (jews)

>>12961254
>I've never read Adorno

>>12961241
Jews are pretty evil, as is everything about the modern world.

>>12960696
Define "western values."

>>12961254
>>12961268
are there people on /pol/ who have read adorno and realise he is with them on most things

>>12961268
"Jews" are not a monolithic block

>>12961260
>>12961253
>>12961241
>>12961232
>>12961225
>>12961203
>>12961168
>>12961193
>>12961107
>>12960985
>>12960805
>>>/leftypol/

>>12961285
Identifying the same concepts doesn't mean you are on the same page on what should be done about them.

>>12961290
Better /leftypol/ than /pol/, I suppose, though I could do without them both.

>>12961289
All Jews have a revolutionary spirit and always have.

>>12961324
How could you possibly know that?

>>12961203
He says Odysseus is a baconian bourgeois

>>12961397
I imagine he read that book The Jewish Revolutionary Spirit. I personally found it mind numbingly boring so I cant comment on if it's worth anything

>>12961322
>I hate /pol/!!
We know you do pseud, your type makes it obvious with every post you make despite the fact the /pol/ hasn't been relevant for years and is totally benign. Always trying to emphasis how not /pol/ you are because people on /pol/ are obviously dumb and you are the antithesis of that.

Seriously why are people still using the /pol/ boogyman? Who the fuck still uses /pol/? All I ever see there are a bunch of alt-lighters responding to low hanging fruit bait with dumb answers. "picture of blacked porn" WHATS WRONG WITH THIS~500 replies.

>>12961398
He says Odysseus is the prototype of the bourgeois, and I don't see how he's wrong.

>>12961285
It is more likely that they wanted his criticism against capitalism but needed to dissociate said criticism from the marxism that Adorno was based on.

Adorno remains a very interesting figure to the Right. IIRC some Spenglerfags in this board like to claim him and one of his own too

>>12961410
Jones needs an editor because his books are bloated to shit and I swear he has used the exact same paragraph like three times in libido dominandi.

>>12961290
>>12961423
>singles out and calls out /leftypol/fags
>gets upset and whines about singling out and bitching about /pol/fags

>>12961423
You /pol/ people sure are sensitive.

>>12961432
Adorno wasn't a "good guy". Christians and Satanists both agree on various tenants of satanism.

>>12961458
>Adorno wasn't a "good guy"
I never said that though, but trying to guess the reason why /pol/fags accusations of him and his posse of destroying the West is exactly the same as how they described how capitalism will destroy the west.

>>12961476
we don't like him because he would never turn that 'authoritarian personality' analysis he used on white christian America onto how Jews feel about Jews

>>12961476
Because Adorno and the frankfurt school didn't just identify the culture industry for example, they god involved with that shit and started using it to push society in the directions it wanted. The frankfurt school was never "we need to stop this" it's "here's the handbook for creating the brave new world"
many brainlets on /pol/ probably think capitalism is good because they think the 1950s was the peak of western civilization or some shit.

>>12961521
>>12961535
But they didn't do those things at all. Frankfurt school was pretty pessimistic.

>>12961557
They were jews and absolutely did those things, and had contact with many other jews. As I mentioned Adorno was literally hired to brainwash post war germany into being good goys, applying what he identified.

>>12961603

>>12961616
That's a pretty gay reaction image. You could get the sentiment across in a way that doesn't scream "i'm a sissyfag from reddit"

>>12961557
The Authoritarian Personality and Adorno's work with the American Jewish Committee was a sharp break from his earlier work with the Frankfurt School, please read op

>>12961203
This. I don't understand /pol/tards, they blame authors like Adorno while spouting the same things he said.

>>12961666
Adorno was trying to save things like Shoenberg and abstract art, not traditional western culture, which he considered oppressive

>>12961691
Both /pol/ and Adorno can agree in many things though.

>>12961727
Both Thomas Jefferson and Adolf Hitler could agree on many things

>>12960794
Overture 1812 is the only salvageable piece of music from before the 21st-century, pleb.

>>12961839
Music started going downhill with Romanticism, read Richard Weaver

So basically /pol/ is right about what Cultural Marxism / The Frankfurt School are and lefties are just doing their typical "deny til you die" thing right

>>12961861
De Maistre makes similar first hand observations. I've heard E.Micheal Jones claim Wagner was the final nail in the coffin.