/lit/ - Literature

>>12919179
Read Democracy at Work, Wolff

>>12919179
>Capitalism countered by socialism create social-democracy
this is stupid as hell. neoliberalism is """social-democracy""" which is really just capitalism with a human face

>>12919232
no it's not you stupid fucking imbecile, he obviously means the development of Keynesian welfare state into Neoliberalism with Tatcher and Reagan & others
go back to posting on leftist subs on reddit you fucking underager

>>12919252
>Keynes
>socialism
either brain-damage, retardation, or american education; no idea

>>12919179
Historical materialism is retarded and is only believed by people with an extremely Eurocentric view of history ironically.

>>12919232
>>12919275
>capitalism with a human face
"capitalism" where the surplus value is being shared among the working classes through the state apparatus

Who cares? It's a 19th century pseudo-science tool.

Do you also wonder how astrology will predict your love life?

>>12919275
>Social democracy
>Socialism
Holy shit you're dumber than I imagined
Go back to r*ddit, please

>>12919327
He’s right you’re a moron. Keynes never was even near socialism. He was actually very critical of Marx’s system himself :3

>>12919336
Oh my fucking lord how fucking dumb do you have to be to conflate 40-70 Keynesian welfare state with the view of Keynes the man himself and with socialism? Jesus

>>12919351
Point taken, but I really don’t see how a welfare state is that much different from what Keynes would have wanted. I think Keynes himself advocated for a welfare state in his General Theory book by stipulating that what drives increased growth is consumption and investment. His whole economic system isn’t stable: it’s based on a never-ending increasing consumption of goods.

>>12919179
neoliberalism is a response to the rapidly declining rate of profit. To improve it you need to do one or more of three things:
-increase the workforce (mass immigration and the opening up of the Chinese/third world workforce to western capitalist enterprises)
-destruction of capital (imperialist wars and third world industrial sabotage)
-reducing the rate of accumulation (focus on the financial industry and speculative assets over liquid reserves)

This is neoliberalism at its core. The cultural side of neoliberalism was built to make the public "accept" all of this.

>>12919179
Well you seem to just be throwing around words without actually referring to anything actually historical. What you call "neoliberalism" emerged as intellectually respectable as a response to the stagflation of the 1970s and the transformation of industry as a result of technological innovations such as the microprocessor. At the same time you have Nixon getting off the gold standard allowing financialization to detach itself from commodity constraints and rapid speed up of transactions on digital systems and China opening themselves up for foreign investment resulting in the transformation of global supply chains combined with just-in-time production methods. Old soviet style command economies tried importing some of these innovations from the capitalist world (détente) but their social systems couldn't adapt and this helped them explode quicker (of course there's a lot of weird deep politics behind the development of the eurodollar market, the 70s oil crises, Vatican bankers, P2 and the deep actors behind the 80s debt crises in mexico, turkey, poland, argentenia, etc)... "social democracy" (a European affair) self negated as well from the same transformations in global production and exchange methods. "Neoliberalism" wasn't just an elite conspiracy emerging from the Mont Pelerin Society like Naomi Klein claims it was but a real "solution" to transformations that were occurring and embraced by the masses. People really did want access to cheaper foreign made goods and access to more advanced financial markets. I'm not claiming it was "necessary" historically but it was one answer.

"Historical materialism" is just nonsense because Marx doesn't realize that spiritualism/occultism is a fundamental aspect of Hegel's dialectic that cannot be removed. There is no "materialist" interpretation of Hegel; Spirit is too important to his thought. Marx thought he could "perfect" Hegel, but in the end he was merely Hegel's puppet from beyond the grave. Marx essentially became Hegel's stooge and carried forth the Dialectic unwittingly.

>>12919417
>There is no "materialist" interpretation of Hegel

>>12919397
>you seem to just be throwing around words without actually referring to anything actually historical
pot calling the kettle black

>>12919421
I suppose I should say that there is no CORRECT materialist interpretation of Hegel. Any attempt to fit Hegel into materialism ultimately contorts him.

>>12919179
Simple: "social-democracy" and "neoliberalism" are just different shades of capitalism.

>>12919314
surplus value is profit and profit is not redistributed, only taxes are

>>12919366
>but I really don’t see how a welfare state is that much different from what Keynes would have wanted
Because the actual thing, ie the 40-70 welfare state as it has been historically, is a different thing from a theoretization of it. One's the actual thing "as it has been", and that's what I'm talking about.
>>12919370
read production of commodities by means of commodities for the love of God

>>12919423
>there is no CORRECT interpretation of Hegel
ftfy

>>12919432
For an average rate of profit to emerge redistribution has to occur otherwise different economic sectors would naturally all have different rates of profit which is illogical. If X amount invested in farming got a higher return than X invested in manufacturing then manufacturing would be pointless. Taxation is just another overhead expense of doing business only difference being you're dealing with a government monopoly.

>>12919314
>surplus value is being shared among the working classes
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>>12919397
You are literally just taking knowledge of different historical events with no real meaning and putting it together to seem intelligent. shut the fuck up

>>12919558
A real crises manifested itself in the 1970s that effected the entire international order. Keynesian/"social democratic" policies couldn't generate the exchange-value to keep capitalism alive so they were abandoned. The new information technology probably was the most important change in the "base" that made "neoliberalism" the only realistic option.

>>12919179
your dialectic is WEAK!

>>12919910
this

>>12919314
>surplus value is being shared among the working classes
Now that's fucking funny

>>12919550
>>12920141
Why?
What's so funny?
That's how I see socdem - capitalism, but where profits are being taxed and redistributed. In effect it's the surplus value workers are forced to produce being partially returned to them.

>>12919179
Read Malthus, neo-liberalism is just the return of classical liberalism by way of the Queen's Mont Pelerin society.

>>12919457
>read production of commodities by means of commodities for the love of God

why?