/lit/ - Literature

No.

>>12902535
no. He's retarded (literally)

Read some John Gray or something instead. Straw Dogs is great.

>>12902535

He's an acquired taste, but a hugely entertaining one. He recommends all sorts of interesting writers in his writings too. Worth reading for his recommendations alone.

>>12902535

Do you like Prussia?

>>12902535
Yes. It's not always an easy read, though, because it's information dense.

>>12902581
>hugely entertaining
>metametablog neoeconomic metatheory

I don't know, were you bullied in school?

>>12902581
I've read exactly one Moldbugman blog post years ago and I wasn't impressed. Like most Jews he manages in the most unsubtle fashion to filter everything through his Jewish lens.

>>12902535
very annoying to read, but he was right about everything in retrospect

>>12902544
>>12902539
>>12902987
>>12902988
>>12902966

All these people are wrong, you should read him yourself and fine out instead of letting retards here dictate your taste.

>>12902535
Yes

>>12902993
he is objectively annoying to read

>>12903015
>he is objectively annoying to read

I thought so too at first, but quickly got over his peculiar affectation. I actually came to like his persona.

>>12903061
>>12903015
I got bored the fifth time he used the trick 'oh hoho, you thought I was building up to some basic tenet of modern liberalism, but once again, I play my ruse, and my conclusion is the opposite of what you expected, and the opposite of the modern liberal position, hahaha, I'm such a jester'

>>12902993
Hi, Curtis.

>>12903079
Sounds like you have autism.

I'll be the leader :)

>>12902993
what else is this board for?

Absolute pontificating bollocks, putrescent bloviating excrement on the chest of a prepubescent asian

>>12902535
Yeah. You can read most of his work in a day or two and they explain really well the current event

>>12903868
Yeah I'm saying you shouldn't post here, and you shouldn't look at what is posted, here make your own choices you weakling.

>>12903930
based

>>12902672
I disagree. Moldbug's only difficulty is his longwindedness. He's quite easy to understand because he spends such a long time disambiguating each point with examples and historical context and long quotations and often reiterates key concepts so that what is actually being said is almost impossible to misunderstand even when your attention wanes. His style is bad but what he says is fascinating.

Try the first chapter out for size and see if it doesn't whet your appetite for more https://www.unqualified-reservations.org/2008/04/open-letter-to-open-minded-progressives/

>>12903930
holy shit, is that really him? lmao

>>12902535
He was alright in Ghostbusters but overshadowed by Murray, Ackroyd, Moranis and Weaver

>The US is a communist country
Literally how?

>>12902535
he's an unironic lolbert and Austrian so no

>>12904375
wrong he's a jacobite ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacobitism )

>>12903930
Lol what
saving this shit

Also how does he live in SF without killing himself?

>>12905248
he's bffs with a bilderberger, moldbug is cloutmaxxed

>>12905252
Who? Thiel?

>>12905257
yeah

>>12905271
Kinda reassuring that there's at least one closet NRxer in the Illuminati.


>>12902544
>retarded
>getting a math PhD in his teens
>had a paper with 50 citations at 19
>2 successful startups that allowed him to NEET it up for the rest of his life

He is le jew *holds up spork*

>>12903930
H-hot

>>12905292
He almost certainly is autistic dude

>>12905542
I dunno, he seems rather normie in person.

>>12904368
Communism is as American as apple pie. :)

In political terms: what I see in Moldbug is a diagnosis of how the progressive cultural elite of the past few centuries (what he calls the Brahmins) have steered themselves wrong and a prescription for how they might redeem themselves, how they could right the ship that they command.

But I don't believe most other factions within the political right would even accept this as a potentiality - they simply want the progressive cultural elite dead and gone, to mutiny the ship that it commands. No wonder, then, that he's so deeply unpopular among both the left and the right.

>>12905542
So where most of the great intellectuals throughout history.

>>12906358
I think his best observation was that essentially a semi-permanent bureaucracy took everything over and is constantly expanding itself at all cost.

Some of the other shit he wrote about - like for example pro-War Vietnam protests really blackpilled me though. Who knows how much other historical shit was hidden.

>>12906414
>Some of the other shit he wrote about - like for example pro-War Vietnam protests really blackpilled me though. Who knows how much other historical shit was hidden.
May I have a link to that?

>>12906418
It's in 'Open Letter'. I don't remember which chapter though as it's been a while.

>>12906414
Iron law of oligarchy isn't a very original observation desu

>>12904368

>>12906685
Eh, that's a very wide application of the term. And also he performs a very thorough analysis, outlining its methods, inconsistencies, etc.

>>12906685
his issue with the Cathedral is not that it's an oligarchy, it's that it's not an explicit oligarchy but it functions like one, which means that it's a structure that can take decisions but they are shielded from taking any responsibility from consequences because they aren't explicit, there are no corrective mechanisms for their retardation, no "skin in the game" as some based arab would say

>>12906336
yeah, only we solved communism

>>12906753
>>12906809
He says nothing that wasn't covered 50 years before he born, with much greater detail, depth of analysis and intellectual content, by Marxist writers. Obviously his suggested solutions are different, but the diagnosis was already done, and done better
I guess because he's an edgy silicon Valley blogger rather than a scary Marxist it's more palatable and accessible to people than eg Gramsci

>>12907029
but anon, those writers are part of it, not that surprising that the engineers of the Cathedral wrote about it

>>12907029
I don't think you've read him desu

>>12906358
This sentiment is understandable since historically in the US Progressives do not de-escalate and will be unwilling to update their worldview.

>>12907029
The difference is that Marxists essentially advise doubling down to fix the problem.

>>12903138
based leader

>>12907107
exactly, communism is just liberalism+

>>12907152
Ask yourself: to what extent do the Anglo-American social clubs that actually rule differ from the Party? (Not that much)

>>12906749
Is this MPC?

>>12907086
Not him, but what in that post was incorrect?
Moldbug always comes across like an autodidact who doesn't realize everything he's saying has already been said. He is very weak on historical analysis and existing political theory. You get the impression he's a smart guy who tried to do political philosophy without any prior study, and it shows. Nothing he wrote would get past even undergraduate level, not because it's too radical, but because it's badly researched and badly argued

>>12907883
and yet more accurate in his predictions than anything the left wrote in 100 years

>>12902535
Yes, but he's nuts. Also doesn't shitpost, so I prefer Nick Land (for a nutjob).
But he is full of interesting ideas, of course.

>>12902987
Dude how boring your reading life must be, if you don't read jews. Like, what are you reading? Fox News? Traffic signs? The backs of cereal boxes? triple parenthesis me all you want, btw.

if you're an incel trying to rationalize your fear of minorities, maybe

>>12903930
yikes

>>12902672
He writes like he is trying to explain something to some one with brain injury. Not sure what you are on about.

>>12902535
Yes, he is.

>>12906749
What does he mean by demanding equal outcomes in educational attainment?
t. not an Amerikansky

>>12908503
you're shooting fish in a barrel

>>12908828
Some of his articles have, on average, a link for every paragraph that you have to open and read so that you can follow along. (Unless you happen to be very well read and familiar with both history and current events.)
He likes to link too much. Sure, it's a blog format, not a proper book, but still.

>>12906336
>Oneida
>Communist

>>12909001
Does he ever link to something that isn't Wikipedia?

>>12909042
Just read one article of him and there was a link to the bathroom scene from The Big Lebowski on Youtube. Weird.

>>12902535
He has that high verbal IQ ashkenazi gene. Some find that writing style off putting.

>>12902535
>read entire thread
>not a single link to one of his articles, essays, books or whatever
>dozens of people offering their critiques without giving any examples

Is this guy a blogger or something? Where do I start with him?

>>12910970
start here https://www.unqualified-reservations.org/2008/04/open-letter-to-open-minded-progressives/

>>12910782
He truly is the opposite of Chomsky in every way, just like he claims

>>12908420
>Fox News?
not possible to watch if you hold that poster's belief system

>>12907883
>if something important has been said then it's not worth saying again in a way that is more understandable and relevant to current politics

His observations and criticisms are done from a purely American background. When I started reading him I like his caustic style of taking down liberal institutions, but lets face it, the guy has no fucking idea how interrelated governance is with the economic institutions. As a non-burger I was surprised by how much in his American world view he takes for granted, like for example the banking-finance aspect of the US the economy that props it up and gives it a supreme edge over all other economies. The real answer to him is to read how Breton-Woods came about and the resulting shift to the petrodollar. An analysis of institutions alone from an ethical or idealistic point of view without an analysis of finance capital is useless. Yet he tries to battle these institutions and props up the ideological idea of the Cathedral as a philosophical struggle. Ultimately his position is no different from the ancap perspective which shifts a struggle about the structure of economic institutions to a war of ideas on the level of rights. This is a supremely Anglo-Saxon worldview which for a non-Anglosphere person is useless. Maybe I am missing something , but in Europe we form our ideas historically and not from the level of ideal situations, but then again we never had a revolution like the American one.

>>12912236
>This is a supremely Anglo-Saxon worldview which for a non-Anglosphere person is useless
>but in Europe we form our ideas historically and not from the level of ideal situations
but european theory is just 5 year old american theory, the europeans can't wait to copy/paste whatever latest racial dynamics theory comes out of burgerland even if it makes no sense in their own countries

not sure why this happens but it happens everywhere in europe

>>12912243

Europe, at least the EU countries , are a very top to down place with regards to policy. These things happen for a different reason than the way they happen in the US. Also, I am not denying the existence of a Cathedral, but I would limit the existence of these people to a very specific demographic, the rootless , cosmopolitan liberal bourgeois type. These have existed for a long time and have always been annoying but they didn't create the institutions or the context in which they thrive. But Moldbug's ideas points to a very specific type of puritanical fanaticism unique to the Cathedral , that makes more sense in an Anglo context than in a European one.

>>12912255
but you have to agree that the elites are still all buying from the same american ideological fountain, and at this point there's no credible counter-elite anywhere that has a winning coalition, university education and media are all following the guidelines

i can agree on the social level, for example in southern europe i don't think any man buys into feminism for some reason, but they got the women, only italian women seem somehow immune for some reason

>>12906749
>despite having no science background even I could tell the soviets were superior scientists
>despite
[lysenkoism intensifies]

He calls David Mamet the world's most famous playwright, otherwise he's ok.

>>12912236
>This is a supremely Anglo-Saxon worldview which for a non-Anglosphere person is useless. Maybe I am missing something , but in Europe we form our ideas historically and not from the level of ideal situations
I honestly hope cuntinentals aren't stupid enough to believe this.

>>12902539
>>12902544
First posts best posts. It's all pseud trash and bad assumptions

Just read Uncle Ted

>>12912780
He's only got one book, though

>the Cathedral

Man, even when they're arguing against Progressivism, they can't help but keep taking potshots at Christianity.

>>12913974
Christianity is the origin of progressivism.

>>12914074
Cringe and bluepilled dorkenlightenment weenie. That's like saying sugar is the origin of corn syrup.

>>12914149
Or that saying reproduction is the origin of sexual perversion. It's true in an almost trivial sense but ultimately meaningless.

>>12902535
Drawing a continued line from the stone age, acultural, priest caste to the current day and finding that it is embodied by progressivism is fucking brilliant. The idea, however, is not original and to my knowledge was first proposed by van Creveld in "Rise and fall of the state". It is done better, but less stinging and worse prose, by van Creveld as he actually shows concrete that the economy and power games of the UN is analogous to that of the Vatican. The insipid anthropod thereafter overextends his one valid and noteworthy point by proposing a retarded new system. Moldbug has some literary merit by finding colourful prose and analogies.

>tl;dr Moldbug is the poor mans van Creveld, and this is because he is not truely amoral like the fat jew

>>12912236
This. Moldbug needs to read Hegel more.

>>12914149
darkenlightenment people are all christcucks dummy

>>12914331
i don't think anybody actually follows darkenlightenment except Land who wrote the text, and even he doesn't

>>12902581
Would there be a list of the writers he has recommended?

Moldbug is just the prelude to Jim.

>>12914420
what's a jim?

>Thomas Aquinas derived Catholicism from pure reason. John Rawls derived progressivism from pure reason. At least one of them must have made a mistake. Maybe they both did.
>people take the man who wrote this seriously

>>12914441
The guy who made and posted that meme

>>12912236
>purely American background.
This. I only read open letter to open minded progressives, and it seems his whole thing depends on the reader, deep down, also being a racist and sharing the same, specifically American, racial neuroses Moldbug has, but being unable to express them due to polite society; and he's trying to give the reader an intellectual justification for these suppressed urges he assumes they have.

>>12903930
Jesus look at the fit on that jacket! Look, if you're going to commit to a leather jacket (and it is a commitment) you have to go all in, you have to do it right. The fit has to be spot on if you aren't really fat. Since he's merely shlubby he would have to do better.
The jacket is way too big for him. It's sagging off his shoulders, loose around the chest while tight around his gut. Then there's the real problem: the arms.
Is this guy married? If he is he's married to a tranny. No woman would let there man walk out with sleeves that fit that obtusely. Look at his left arm dangling (awkwardly.) See how far the jacket dangles past his wrist. It overreaches so far that it looks like he has to unbutton or unzip the sleeves just so he can use his hands. It's as if he's a child wearing his dad's jacket.
Don't get me started on the faux-distress on the sleeves. No.
No, no, no.
And a shitty white button down underneath?
Nah, dude. No!
The jeans are ok, but he manages to fuck up again with that belt! Look at the whole of the pic, even though it's color corrected he's going: white shirt, black/blueish/silver jacket, blue jeans. Ok. But the belt is BROWN with a copper-colored buckle. Why, dude? No!
Don't get me started on the glasses and the hairstyle.
Fuck!

>>12915350
this pasta is cold

https://www.unqualified-reservations.org/2011/07/right-wing-terrorism-as-folk-activism/
I thought this article of his was interesting to read in light of NZ. I think it might be the one thing that would've talked Tarant down from doing what he did had he read it
>>12915168
I mean, his point is sorta that they couldn'tve
>>12915350
insufferable /fa/ poster

>>12915439
Your mom's hairy-ass pussy is cold.

He looks like an absolute nerd that does shit on COBOL

>>12912236
Progressives don't exist outside the Anglosphere except insofar as Euros ape them.

>>12912236
Moldbug isn't engaging in an ethical analysis of institutions. He looks at the US power structure and notes that it does not at all resemble the formal power structure and concludes that democracy (which is always a facade) is the cause of the harmful effects of Progressivism because of the incentives it gives the ruling class to obey the logic of their regime, and suggests honesty about the power structure (formalism) as a fix.

>>12915591
Not in France, Germany, Scandinavia? Really?

>>12915626
Maybe Sweden. Sweden did consciously try to ape the US post-WW2. In Germany it is imposed by the US. A similar situation exists in France.

As I see it you can't really call French or German socialists who might arrive at similar views to Progressives, a Progressive, because they lack the relationship to authority characteristic of Progressivism (until post-WW2 when America began to impose authority). The Anglo sphere and Continental Left might arrive at some similar conclusions but are operating within different traditions as I see it.

>>12904368
I mean he outlines it pretty well in the article you're referencing

>>12915674
AIACC is a rhetorical flourish but there is a lot of continuity between the Communist tradition and the Progressive one. Ironically from a Formalist point of view Marxism-Leninism might be preferable to Progressivism in a way, as it is a little more honest about the power structure, namely, the Party's authority is not in question. In the US it's quite difficult to determine would is even IN the Party.

>>12915654
I don’t know if “imposed” is the word I’d choose. I think in many cases Europeans have happily embraced progressivism (or whatever they choose to call it, the result in the end being the same though origins may differ) as it’s a proven route to power.

>>12912236
>let me tell you why this interesting thinker is wrong
>basic bitch chomsky shit
thanks for sharing retard

>>12915591
>>12915626
>>12915654
>>12915829
"There is a traditional analogy, not much used in the 20th century, which perhaps can be adapted to tell us the story of the 20th century in one little anecdote. Let me give it a shot.

The upas-tree, as is well known, kills all animals which approach it. What’s less well-known is that it kills all the trees around it, as well. (It needs a clear space in which to hunt.) This un-neighborly result is the effect of a toxin which the upas-tree’s roots secrete.

But the upas-tree itself is not immune to its own toxin. It is just more resistant than its neighbors. When they are dead, it itself is merely dying. But it must succumb all the same. For it was not evolution, but grim destiny, that designed the upas-tree.

In case it’s not obvious, in the reactionary version of the 20th century, the upas-tree is America and its toxin is democracy. Thus we see the same result: American democracy is the last philosophy standing. Not because it is sweet, but just because it is more lethal to its neighbors than itself.

What underlying pattern produces the upas-tree effect? There’s actually a simple and appealing answer. Democracy looks just like the memetic equivalent of an invasive, parasitic species.

The parasite’s native habitat is most resistant to it. The Anglo-American countries are the most resistant to democracy, because they are the native habitat of democracy. They thus harbor not only the roots of democracy and its most diverse expressions, but also its most potent natural enemies. Thus they degrade slowly without any sudden descents into anarchy.

In the presence of said enemies, political pluralism is a chronic, degenerative, probably still terminal, but slow and manageable condition. When this parasite jumps to another species of tree, however, it meets no defenses, and the victim shrivels, blackens and burns overnight. So the same effect is seen when kudzu jumps from Japan to Arkansas, as when democracy jumps from England to France."

>>12902535
He's ok. He mostly only goes wrong in assuming that his arguments magically justify things exactly as they are, or as they would benefit him and people he likes, but then everyone does that, so it's not like you can't hold that against literally everyone else too.

>>12915939
>magically justify things exactly as they are,

But he hates things as they are.

>>12915915
You deny European progressives all agency? That they are unwitting and unwilling victims? If democracy is a bug (as is the analogy in your cite) I insist that there is a surprisingly large number of non-Anglosphere bug chasers who also must be given some of the blame.

>>12915944
Sort of. He hates The Cathedral, and ascribes it all the power. But he likes everything that is not The Cathedral, basically.

>>12916002
He likes technology, which the Cathedral tends to hinder.

>>12915654
>A similar situation exists in France.
i think the french were always retarded on their own, see french revolution and everything afterwards

>>12915915
i think this is also a good analogy for "woke-capital", even if it hurts huge corporations, at least they can survive it, but all smaller competitors can't pay the price for having huge "diversity" departments, esoteric hiring practices and having to check every single word they put in the public

so in the end they poison themselves but destroy all smaller competition

>>12917058
Good thinking.

>>12917058
>>12917123
The analogy doesn't work. Diversity benefits companies, it leads to healthier corporate culture and improved performance.

>>12917185
That's ridiculous. The best performing companies were not diverse. They only started getting into diversity once they were already big and successful.
At this point you could replace half of Apple's employees with down syndrome retards and it would still be profitable.

>>12917220
>were
Yes at some point in the past it was maybe acceptable to have a non diverse company, but several corporate failures, caused by a lack of diversity (eg Enron) have lead most people concerned with corporate governance to accept the value of diversity, especially among non-execs. It leads to better decision making and improved performance.
Guys like Moldbug seem to think only straight white males are capable of running a company, but people who actually do it aren't so stupid

>>12917331
I should have known you were baiting... got me, I guess.

>>12917185
i hope this is just low effort bait

>>12902535
some of the best stuff he has wrote is very interesting and also entertaining, however he is whack sometimes.

>>12917043
I think the most concise way I can put it is that the American Left is rooted in its Great Awakenings and the Continental Left, in the Enlightenment.

>>12917921
i don't think that matters anymore among rootless elites, we have all been memed too hard if you stayed enough time in public education and consumed enough media and traveled enough

>>12917935
Even rootless elites still pay their progressive bonafides. Money alone doesn't buy status among them, you need to conspicuously display the right "virtues".

>>12909042
He often references historical texts, usually political essays from the time period he's talking about. While he does come across as a bit of an autodidact as an earlier anon said, it's clear that he reads.

>>12919513
Autodidact? Are you somehow implying his reservations are unqualified?

>>12915211
lol

>>12902535
I am currently halfway through the Open Letter.

His diagnosis of modern liberalism as secularised Whig puritanism is spot on, I can't say I am a positive about his proposed solution of turning governments into stock companies with CEOs,

>>12922570
his solutions are a bit retarded without taking into account nukes, modern armies and cultural homogeneity

>>12922601
Diverse societies are perfectly manageable with non-democratic governance - look at Hong Kong, the British Empire in Asia, etc. Our democratic system means there's a political advantage in whipping up ethnic grievance.

>>12922805
Whoops, I meant Singapore rather than HK

>>12922805
>>12922816
is Singapore that diverse? I'm guessing much of the migration has been either from china or has been peeled off from the top layers of others society, just taking the people that have been homogenized through many years of higher education and sitting on a class being fed information, so not that heterogeneous in reality even if the countries of origin are diverse

>>12923014
British didn't exactly bring Tamil and Malay Aristocrats to settle in Singapore.

>>12923014
They had race riots in the 60s, so yeah they are pretty diverse and susceptible to the problems that arise from this. The virtual lack of democracy definitely helps though, politics exacerbate ethnic tension
>>12922570
I also worry about this. Cant the CEO just turn on the shareholders, stage a coup with the security personnel they oversee? Of course, he addresses this with cryptographically locked weapons and killer robot armies and other nerd shit but it still seems like neocameralism is subject to some ambiguity of sovereignty. Unless the shareholders diversify the military and assign themselves personal guards

>>12923927
at least Nick Land sees the obvious solution: let the killer bots run the government

>unironically calling yourself "Mencius Moldbug"
>looks like a caricature of tfwnogf
Wannabe Sithlords go straight into the trashcan

>>12923014
It's more diverse than most western countries - its about 70% Han Chinese

>>12924054
star wars morality is dumb and wannabe sith lords go straight to the heart

>>12923014
It's majority Chinese and the few minority groups know their place and are mostly of Asian and European descent.

So way less diverse than the USA, where the majority of non-Latino whites are a mere 60% of the population and the other 40% is a mess.

>>12924441
I've been to Singapore being of Singaporean descent. It's majority Chinese with a Indian Hindu and Malay Muslim minority of at least 20%. The difference is from what I've seen, it's even more multicultural than the USA but with way less crime. Most people in Singapore hang out with their own ethnic group with very few intermarriage between the three dominant groups. In the US most stick to their own but not to that extent. There's noticeable intermarriage and intermingling between the groups and the heritage dilutes after a few generations. Heritage still plays a role in Singapore. It's not uncommon to visit a temple or mosque depending on your religion, unlike the USA where traditions are decreasing and people couldn't give a rat's ass about their ancestors.

>>12925022
I guess they are multicultural in the real, oldschool sense of the word instead of just a multi-ethnic nihilist chaos like America is.

>>12925213
America has a culture despite how /pol/acks joke that there isn't. It's a popular culture that's spread by mass consumerism and corporate interests. I haven't read much of Moldbug's work but if he's promoting a nation ceo it seems to me that he's not addressing the problem of these corporations that destroy local autonomy and the community.

>>12925350
I feel like some of that is more of an urban planning issue than anything. Car culture creates atomized living conditions and shopping mexaplexes. However, removing democratic incentives to brainwash people would help

>>12907770
Salo Forum

>>12914420
Jim's stuff on 'left singularities' is very, very good. But his social views are so extreme that they rustle my jimmies, literally on the far right of NRx

>>12902544
>John Gray
>not literally retarded
Pleb.

>>12926845
what's a jim?

>>12902535
Yes

>>12914377
Pobedonostsev
Carlyle
de Maistre
Albert J Nock
David Hume
Henry Sumner Maine
James Anthony Froude
Robert Filmer
Spengler
Hermann Hoppe
de Jouvenel
Rushton
Defoe
Johnson

>>12926845
Jim is not that far right. Any random Muslim in Saudi Arabia is further right than he is on any question except race

Moldbug was a Rhodesiaboo before it was cool.

https://www.unqualified-reservations.org/2007/08/country-that-used-to-exist/

>>12904375
he's more chicago school since he believes in private laws

>>12927878
Not the BNP moldbug nooo

>>12906749
name of the forum? looks interesting

>>12907029
>with much greater detail, depth of analysis and intellectual content, by Marxist writers

he was influenced by Jouvenal, not by marxists you dumbfuck

>>12913974
"The Cathedral" is just a poor mockup of cultural hegemony and manufactured consent retooled for autistic IQ-fetishists anyway so don't take it too seriously

>>12912236
exactly, the American Government and by extension the Establishment itself (the cathedral) is an anomaly and not the rule when it comes to democracy and how the progressive ideology took over the ruling institutions

>>12927507
Salafists are the most reactionary people in the world so that doesn't say much

>>12928056
mpcdot.com

>>12923927
>Of course, he addresses this with cryptographically locked weapons and killer robot armies and other nerd shit

>>12926845
who the fuck is JIM?

>>12928062
except it theoretically explains the ideological progression of the Cathedral, instead of going all:
>hurr durr capitalist conspiracy