/lit/ - Literature

>>12905982
>yo, gibs me dat rent
what did capitalists mean by this?

>>12905982
omfg check your SENSE OF ENTITLEMENT WHITE BOY
CHECK YOUR PRIVILEGE BRAH

>>12905982
He thought he was smart enough to out-Jew (((international capitalists))) and stake a philosophical claim on the hearts and minds of Europeans; he was horribly mistaken however, and, as it turned out, the only people dumb enough to ever try practically implementing his dipshit economic theories on a large scale have always been non-whites (Slavs, Chinese, Koreans, taconiggers, etc.)

Why is Marx so misrepresented all the time by everyone

>>12906025
Americans think it's their patriotic duty to repeat whatever propaganda they last heard

>>12905982

He wants to violently seize the means of production with the interest of the proletariat in mind, as all proles should. Capitalists should be hanged, bludgeoned, or shot.

What's the problem?

>>12906025
Why has every society that experimented with Marxist thought become a starving, impoverished genocidal, dystopian shithole?

>>12906025
Most people fall into two categories:
>Haven't read anything he wrote
>Have read some of his stuff but confuses his output with Engels'

>>12906025
American indoctrination

Man original Marxian writing is so far removed from modern day Marxism it's almost an inversion of it. Probably the main reason why real esoteric leftists tend to be way more tolerant than modern SJW types.

>>12906049
case in point>>12906039

>>12906035
the problem is proles are fucking idiots. ppl are like "oh no dictatorship bad" but it's just like, no, you NEED an authoritative government to control the fucking masses. it doesn't matter if 600 million die, they are worthless people with worthless lives anyway. but this is why capitalism won, because it has a friendly face. you can do what you want, fuck whoever, fulfill your full potential, etc. all while feeding mommy capital. truly satanic

>>12906034

Burgers will get onto you for that and then bombard you with memes and no sources.

>>12906050
liberals are fascists

>>12906060

I don't know if you're using the correct definition because if you are you're right. If you're equating the "American left" with liberals you're still kind of right but at the same time the "American right" are also fascists.

Pretty much neoliberals (capitalist cuckolds) are fascists, yes.

>>12906054

Nah.

>>12906060
lol yeah whatever dude

>>12906053
>BUR DUR WURSNT RURL MURXISM

>>12906071
>Only has one argument
>Repeats it over and over
Indoctrination in a nutshell

>>12906050
The straight ahead marxists at least dont attack you for being le white male, but I have no idea where they hang out these days. Seems all the popular marxists are more into race and gender politics than class now

>value isn't how much you'd like to have something, it's a spooky ghost that goes to live in stuff you work on for a socially necessary amount of time.
What did he mean by this?

>>12906054
>you NEED an authoritative government to control the fucking masses
t. indoctrinated cuck

>>12905982
fuck neo-liberals, worst human beings in existance

>>12906085
authoritarian capitalism is the future of the West anyway

>>12906054
>you NEED an authoritative government
how about the Athenian democracy? worked out quite well. I think you're a psychopath

>>12906077
>no idea where they hang out these days
They're totally disenfranchised. I have a mate, a very smart guy, who considers himself a more traditional marxist. You find him at punk gigs or the pub, in terms of political organisation there is none.

>>12906076
Marxists are literally the last fucking people with any right to accuse others of habitually engaging in indoctrination.

>>12906064
american left and american right are both neoliberal, this division is just as illusory as freedom under capitalism or democracy itself

>>12906095
>posts the same argument a third time

>>12906067
this is liberal for "gas the jew"

>>12906076
>>12906097
you haven't tried to reply to the argument

>>12906064
>neoliberals (capitalist cuckolds) are fascists, yes.
these are the ones who pushed for outsourcing, open borders, unrestricted migration, international trade agreements like TTIP and now they're trying to act all weak and conservative, when they got the left pushing for these same "solutions" while playing an insincere moral card. Marx was against Open borders and he was right, if you want fair negotiations between workers and shareholders you have to make sure that the workforce isn't utterly deplorable and dependent on state welfare, which will always be the case in neoliberal scenarios.

>>12906096

Cool stuff, comrade. I'm making sure you weren't just saying "unf libruls bad" like an American who doesn't know anything would.

>>12906089
>how about the Athenian democracy?
greeks were faggots

>I think you're a psychopath
>authoritarian misanthrope
>automatically a psychopath
suck a dick democuck

>>12906025
People are told what to think about him without bothering to actually read and make up their own mind.

>>12906095
zionist bankers "helped" them build their systems. none of their systems were close to what Marx had in mind

>>12906109
apparently you're a Persian thinker

>>12906089
It was just an oligarchy in practice.

>>12906121
not even close dude

>>12906108
word yeah it's easy to get levels confused, and this is what bothers me the most about liberal hypocrites who think they're progressive, if you disagree you're othered as their disavowed conservatism. they can't understand a radical viewpoint, liberals with their narcissistic utopianism. the right or the alt-right are too stupid to warrant thought, they are hatred and violence and a threat

>>12906118
congrats u played urslef

>>12906130
absolutely lol

What are your views on race differences

>>12906096
Oh, shit.

>>12906035
>sent from my iPhone

>>12906156

>>12906142
race isn't real but it expresses the history of a people... honestly i think that matters of race and gender are stupid and base, they're sexual in nature, children don't know race or gender

>>12906164
The dude's not really wrong though. If you're serious about your convinctions you could at least make the most ethical or sensible choice in the scenario. Saying 'x is shit but its just a part of the system and I have no power to change it' is a big cop out, especially in a capitalist society where your ability to boycott as a consumer is one of the few powers you have to effect change.

>>12906089
Oh yeah, how long did they have a true democracy for?

>>12906164
You dont need an iphone you retard, it's like the most expensive smartphone

>>12906164
lmao you had that comic saved for this, didn't you?

>>12906193
I just hate that meme because it's repeating the old myth that serfs had it "bad" in the middle ages. It's so funny that the reason they supposedly had it "bad" is because they had to work, and they weren't free (free to do what? change their gender?). As if we don't need to work today.

>>12906203
until they got ruined by Sparta pretty much

I would happily live as a serf to some local lord, even if he was a somewhat cruel lord, if it also meant that all the libshits and leftists were gone forever, stringed up in the lord's dungeon or used as fertilizer for the fields.

>>12906035
>as all proles should
Why?

>>12906089
>athenian democracy
Yeah democracy works pretty well when you have a relatively small population of highly engaged aristocrats.

>>12906025

Well, the name is widely used as a scapegoat in right wing/far right wing propaganda. The fact that the man was partially Jewish does not do him any favours either. With that being said, a lot of these people don't actually bother to read his works and mainly just regurgitate the nonsense/conspiracy theories they hear. If they would actually critically evaluate his views for themselves and formed their own opinion we wouldn't have as many shitposts.

>>12906244
fucking based

>>12906258
It is laughable to say that the Athenian democracy wasn't authoritative. Just study Athenian democracy in the most entry-level fashion. It had nothing in common with modern democracy.

>>12906258
>democracy works pretty well when women can't vote
FTFY

>>12906025
Big money is scared, big money buys big propaganda.

The problem with Marx is that to talk about him you are required to read a huge, boring book only wingnuts value. Until you have read this massive, terrible tome any possible objection you may have to him is easily countered by 'heh read capital.' This is why the world gave up on Marxism, they had better things to do.

>>12906244
we need more people like you

>>12906277
Yes and his ideas can be summed up rather well in the notion of "Historical materialism", where he just rejects anything transcendent as excuses for material issues. So you can just study historical materialism to get a good grip on Marx, fundamentally he is anti-God, anti-Divinity.

He's also managed to stay relevant because of the reason you mentioned. It's the same reason why shit books like Ulysses and Gravity's Rainbow keeps a following, critics can be entirely dismissed unless they've read the entire book, and once they have then congratulations, you just wasted a precious part of your life in reading and discussing the book. It's like a mind virus that spreads, seeking new hosts.

>>12906290
heh read capital

>>12906260
Lots of leftwing stuff that derives from him is misrepresentative as well. None of them read him either.

>>12906264
There's also a difference between cultural and state authority, this difference was nonexistent in the past. If you're at odds with 'your culture' then you're a foreigner. Most states are at odds with the people, that's why they warp cultures via the world economy. So a capitalist can say they aren't authoritarian because you agree with how things are.

>>12906039
>>12906060
>>12906071
cringe, where did the high IQ board move?

>>12906260
>The fact that the man was partially Jewish does not do him any favours either.
How about the fact that his garbage philosophy is Judaism incarnate? Does that do him any favors?

>>12906164
The guy in the comic is right though. You cant overthrow a paradigm whilst actively contributing to it.

>>12906330
go back to your shithole

>>12906330
This doesn't make sense. Stalin purged the Bolsheviks and pursued his own ideas of socialism. How could the resulting Soviet Communism of Fisher's era be Bolshevik in nature?

>>12906025
he's a sperg people couldn't even understand him at the time as lenin pointed out

>>12905982

>>12906039
Except the chinks are the new global hegemons and wh*tes are slowly self destructing. Cant wait till you faggots become irrelevant.

>>12906193
Following a misguided sense of ideological purity (aka virtue signalling) is something liberals do, not people that are actually serious in their intent to change society.
If capitalists were serious about this free market business, they would dismantle the corporate welfare state, but it turns out they are far more interested in keeping idiots like you believing they are perfect beings that never did anything wrong.

>>12906244
>monarchists actually exist

>>12906054
>You NEED anything
>Edgy juvenile deterministic thinking with no evidence or backing except your own inferiority complex logic.
I remember when i was in highschool.

>>12906290
>I just spent a few weeks reading capital. I am now trapped in the sunken cost falalcy and therefore will continue to be a marxist for the next 40 years/end of my life.
Yeah.... that makes perfect sense. It is entirely impossible that his ideas actually carry weight and resonate with those that read his works?

>>12906277

>the problem with marx is that you have to read

>>12906723
/lit/

>>12906035
Yes, because the most famous country that experimented with marxism didn't become the most powerful country at the time, win the space race, and had the fastest industrialization ever recorded. hmmm

>>12906097
>>12906076
>>12906053
>>12906049

He only needs one argument since you can't even really refute it all you're trying to say just because a lot of people state that it has to be wrong.

Why don't you take a history class?

>>12906816
kys muttyboi. Everybody knows your story about 100 billion dead due to communism. No need to refute such claims

>>12906816
>Why don't you take a history class?
Why don't you? You'll discover capitalism's death toll has a few extra zeros at the end.

>>12906711
I mean you should read some more economist books or just ex-communists takes on economics.

>>12906834
Capitalism also spans the whole world and has a longer history than communism

>>12906829

Only brainlets care about kill count, and I mean this unironically.

So why do people still have the fucking red scare after nearly two decades since USSR fell? It's funny since it isn't even used to stir up hatred for Marxist countries but succdem shit like AOC.
>>12906842
Because like we all known USSR operated on magic for 50 years.
>>12906844
You don't actually need some long span for capitalism to show it's own godzilions. Slave trade would be a first thing that comes to my mind.

>>12906834
show me an instance where capitalism fails and doesn't recover.

also

>Doesn't know what coercive economics is

>Thinks capitalism is a tunnel visioned ideology like communism

>Doesn't realize the ussr has done the same thing through their imperialism and this is just a side effect of people take advantage of others.

>Thinks communism is possible if everywhere is communist even though half the earth can't agree with this sperg on basic shit.

>Doesn't understand every single attempt of communism has failed by the dissolution of the communist state or the desperate use of capitalism to help their country.

I hope you try to "rise up" because I'd love to fucking kill you fucking subhuman communists. Nothing but jobless leeches on society.

>>12906851
I actually agree.
>>12906855
The red scare is back because we live in interesting times. As a funny fellow once said: Everything under heaven is in utter chaos

Fascism has the lowest kill count all things considered. Clearly the superior ideology

>>12906296
based

>>12906855
The red scare exists because people like food and their independence. I'm sorry you're not competent enough to take care of yourself and you have to steal from others.

>>12906855
Slave trade has long existed before capitalism, if only capitalism stopped it

>>12906866

>>12906869
The capitalist argument against slavery is more active people within the economy. Also can have a higher impact on the GDP than just menial labor.

>>12906866
Behind post like these I actually imagine boomers who have a portrait of Reagan on the wall, having a panic attack every time they hear Marx's name.
>>12906869
So have brutal prisons (gulags), if only communist have stopped it.

>>12906872

>>12906887

>>12906891
name 5 successful socialist economies and no scandinavian countries are not socialist.

>>12906898

>>12906878
>if only communism collapse has stopped it
FTFY

>>12906891
you realize you retards have been saying capitalism is going to die soon for the last 200 fucking years right?

I also remember when Al Gore was propagating that the earth was going to be under water in 2010.

The funniest thing is that when somebody attacks capitalism and people say that it isn't 'real' capitalism nobody gives a fuck, but when it happens in reverse everybody loses their minds.
inb4
>commie
Not really, I just can't stand hypocrisy even if it's used by 'my' side.

>>12906905

>>12906900

>>12906898
Whole eastern block for the most part, Cuba, USSR, China (kinda)
>>12906901
This is how I know people like you are illiterate. Kruschev went full autism condemning Stalin after his dead, prisoners of gulags were put in rehabilitation with the whole gulag system being abolished.

>>12906891
>commies not fucking up asia and africa further with imperialism
>commies not fucking sustainable energy by making nuclear taboo

>>12906910

>>12906025
Have you read 1984? Remember the scapegoat Goldstein, whom the Party were instructed to hate with every fibre of their being? While he was actually one of the good guys, and Big Brother the true enemy? Yeah all of this is a pretty-apt allegory for America and its relationship with its citizens (who are fed propaganda every day of their lives, instructed on who to hate and who to like), and towards figures like Marx (who are scapegoated so heavily one only knows them as a sympathetic visage in photographs, with no clue as to what their actual mission and philosophy was about). The point is, read into Marx yourself, don't let a single other person inform you of him secondhand.

>>12906932

>>12906919
China practices capitalism, and is very unfair to its citizens will only be amplified because of its social credit system. If you want byzantine level beauracracy with your communism you really don't understand Marx.

>whole eastern block
You should go talk about that in Poland or Ukraine wouldn't call that all socialist either.

>Cuba
Oh yeah, the place where they arrest people for trying to practice their own side businesses because sick people can't earn there own wage. They're also not socialist and self described communists afaik.

Also communism =/= socialism

>>12906932
Goldstein was actually Troski

>>12906875
The Real argument is that slaves are depreciating assets that need constant maintenance to produce profit. On the other hand you don't have to feed, shelter or protect your workers, and you can get rid of them at a moment notice if they ever get broken!
A great deal if you ask me (the capitalist)!

Has there ever been a "marxist company"? And by that I mean a company where every employee is a partner/owner of it? How would(n't) that work out?

>>12906954
Ever heard of a worker co-op anon

>>12906193
this presents questions of economic organization in purely bourgeois terms, i.e. merely a matter of personal taste, which of course safely leaves intact the existing relationships of production

When the west says that their system is the most effective they always forget to acknowledge that they developed on a continent with no competition currently have 2 borders have access to trade via the pacific and atlantic oceans with ports that don't freeze over. But okay its due to capitalism.

>>12906947
I know but it works for Marx too.

>>12906244
serfs also unironically had more freedom than wage slaves do today

>>12906955
oh yeah
we should make that a thing
but like... worldwide, you know?

>>12906972
Good luck with that, I'll be trying to bring the Eiffel tower down by headbutting it if you need me

>>12906943
Norway doesn't have a minimum wage and their poverty rate isn't even 1%

>>12906963
USA is not the west, but I appreciate your point.

>>12906988
They don't have a minimum wage because they have strong unions that negotiate national contracts, ya git.

>>12906988
> Norway doesn't have a minimum wage
Because strong unions help with that. And if there's something pigs hate more than gubbirment regulations, then it's workers who refuse to kowtow to them.

>>12906945
Mein gott!
>China practices capitalism, and is very unfair to its citizens will only be amplified because of its social credit system. If you want byzantine level beauracracy with your communism you really don't understand Marx.
China is a mixed economy, It follows lots of Marxist ideas like having somewhat of a planned economy, they want to achive universal healthcare, 5 year plans, etc. The credit system isn't something I support but it's exaggerated for propaganda purposes

https://www.google.de/amp/s/foreignpolicy.com/2018/11/16/chinas-orwellian-social-credit-score-isnt-real/amp/

>You should go talk about that in Poland or Ukraine wouldn't call that all socialist either.
I'm from Poland and I have my whole family told me how life was under socialism. I know the good parts and the bad parts and for the most parts it was good.
>Oh yeah, the place where they arrest people for trying to practice their own side businesses because sick people can't earn there own wage. They're also not socialist and self described communists afaik.
The life there is pretty good seeing the sanctions put on them. When looking at statistics for things like safety and healthcare they do well. What's even pathetic they have the same life expectancy as US while being nowhere as rich.
>Also communism =/= socialism
No communist country claims it has achieved communism. They say they practice socialism.

>>12906050
Stonetoss is pretty much trash

>>12907009
>That Foreign Policy article
Very interesting and a good read. Thanks for sharing.
t. not the guy you replied to

Imagine still upholding a labor theory of value in 2019.

>but Adam Smith!
There's your problem. Stop reading British thinkers. Many of the world's problems would go away if this were done.

>>12906943
Can you please explain what this means to me?

>>12907181
> Stop reading British thinkers
This. Nothing good has ever come out of that island. It's God's trash-bin.

>>12906025
would it really have made that much of a difference if op had insted written yo gibs me dat back

>>12906834
>capitalism's death toll has a few extra zeros
lol what did he mean by this

>>12906690
>Except the chinks are the new global hegemons
Thanks to capitalism.

>>12906053
>>12906325
>no response
As expected.

>>12906244
All the "libshits and leftists" would have starved to death under that sort of system

>>12906053
>devastation caused by communist policies is "American propaganda"
Literal retard.

>>12906025
His actual policies are even worse, ironically.

>start false-flag /pol/ bait thread
>have your shitty ideology dragged through the mud and made fun of like it always is
>act smug for being called retarded and essentially say, "no u"
>complain that no one agrees with you, just like last time
What did /leftypol/ mean by this?

>>12906855
> So why do people still have the fucking red scare after nearly two decades since USSR fell? It's funny since it isn't even used to stir up hatred for Marxist countries but succdem shit like AOC.
Because citizens of countries sensibly oppose the anti-national policies and attitudes proposed by radicals and brought in through a Trojan horse by moderates of the socialist variety.

Personally I’d rather our species be wiped out by climate change than exist in any sort of decentralized stateless society.

>>12907501
Plenty of positive posts, brainlet. And only idiot right wingers care about "winning" debates, which simply means shouting louder than the other. Actual arguments outside spewing old trite propaganda are, of course, lacking.

>>12906039
Politicians identifying as marxist doesn't automatically mean they know how to govern a country properly

>>12906050
>heh this comic will teach people that being against fascism is a bad thing

dumb /pol/ comic

>>12907564
>Plenty of positive posts
I think you mean, "plenty of samefagging plus my tranny discord server raid"
Didn't read the rest of your post after that. Go post on /pol/ where your garbage thread belongs, this is a literature board.

Imagine believing that anyone owes you anything. I can't imagine having a such a victim mindset, that perspective seems so alien to me.

>>12907501
>thinks writing something in greentext makes what you say is factual
>source: dude trust me its the way I say it is

>>12907564
>>12907609
seething samefag

What a garbage thread. Seems fitting for such a garbage ideology.

>>12907564
>only idiot right wingers care about "winning" debates
You're a fucking liar and you know it.

>Imagine believing that anyone owes you anything.
You mean thinking that others are good people?

You see, the idea of Socialism is biblical. The idea of an ideal society espoused in Acts is socialist. There were various socialists, like St. Simon, who were steeped in religion.

The idea of socialism is with God. The idea that your brothers will be there for you also is. That's why The Republic, a perfect example of socialism, is so divine

:3

>>12907608
It really is bizarre, but you have to realize that the capitalists require it. They would be shocked if someone suggested that they aren't owed protection of their private "property". Since his appearance on the world stage, the cap has always been a victim.

>>12906077
/leftypol/ on a certain other chan

>>12906106
>Marx was against Open borders
Marx was against nationalism and borders altogether, it was Lenin that said we don't have time to wait for an international revolution and we need to enact socialism in our separate nations before we can get to global communism

>>12906332
Every revolution/rebellion/paradigm shift in human history was led by people who benefited in some way from the system they were trying to change. There's no way around it.

>>12906078
>fake quote
>what did he mean by this
>no, I haven't read any of his writing
cool post bud

>R: 155
This board is beyond dead

It's duh rich peepoo and big corporayyshuns fault that I'm a 35 year old unemployed virgin. Literally.

>>12907713
It's literally everyone's fault but my own that I'm a loser. Smash capitalism.

>>12907667
>"property" in quotes
Yeah good luck convincing anyone to join your "dude nobody owns anything!" cult.

>>12906142
race is a concept created less than 400 years ago by rich people to create an artificial "scientific" caste system with no cultural justification
the long-term project is to eliminate both racism and the concept of race entirely, since they are a huge cultural resource drain and just get in the way by making people behave retardedly (see police violence, idpol, drug war, etc)
but it's so engrained in society it's not going anywhere any time soon, so yeah at some level you have to be actively anti-racism or it'll just keep getting louder and worse
the solution isn't just having more black CEOs or movie stars or whatever, that's a liberal waste of time
but the screeching pol culture of banging your head against a wall and posting clowns everywhere for 8 hours a day because you saw an interracial couple at Wendy's isn't a solution to anything either, it's just reinforcing the nonsense

>>12907736
*ingrained

>>12907734
>Property is theft!
From whom?
>...

If property is theft, then it has to be stolen from someone or a group of people. But property is still theft, so the person or group it was stolen from is also guilty of theft.

>>12907736
>race is a concept created less than 400 years ago by rich people
Hahahahahahahahahaha.

>>12907741
It's theft from EVERYBODY! EVERYTHING belongs to EVERYBODY! Do you get it now?

>>12907746
No, you're crazy.

>>12906244
cringe

>>12907741
This is Max Stirner's criticism of Proudhon in case you were interested. (but you already knew that you wikipedia reading fag, didn't you?)

>>12907713
>>12907718
>The problems of society could never be caused by those with actual power
>It's 35 year old virgins that are to blame for our collapsed health care system, opioid epidemic, unbelievably prevalent debt, acidifying oceans, melting ice caps, dissolved culture, and corrupt government sold out to corporate interests, those damn lazy neets

>>12907748
No, he's just espousing the idea of Plato's Republic

>>12906860
>show me an instance where capitalism fails and doesn't recover.
*gestures at United States*

>>12907746
Reductionism is a child's argument. Put any system or ideology in retard terms and it sounds retarded, this can be done with literally anything you want.

>>12906860
>I hope you try to "rise up" because I'd love to fucking kill you fucking subhuman communists. Nothing but jobless leeches on society.
Do you actually think people become communists because they're unemployed?

>>12907652
Christianity is only good for its aesthetic. It’s spirItually and ideologically bankrupt.

>>12906864
Fascism is anti-human and anti-spirit. No good at all

>>12906905
>the earth was going to be under water in 2010.
He never said this

>>12905982
Was Marx a kind individual? I just read his quote about "the last capitalist we hang...", and it made me really sad because I thought the conflict between capitalists and communists was between their modern footsoldiers, and that such desires for violence were not found in their founders - but that quote seems to say different. Was Marx a kind person, extending compassion to all?

Also, do communists and capitalists truly hate eachother and actually want to hurt eachother, or is it moreso like interactional banter?

>>12906954
>a "marxist company"
not a thing

>>12907774
The only way /pol/acks know how to argue is to accuse any anonymous posters who disagree with them of being a member of a group they dislike. At that point it doesn't actually matter what they say because they've been "found out" and can simply be dismissed without engaging.
This is what happens every time someone on this board or theirs is accused of being a jew, a shill, unemployed, an angry Hillary supporter, soi, a falseflagger (for when someone agrees with them but is also retarded), or the newest outgroup, a discord tranny.

>>12907608
Literally every political and economic system ever devised involves someone owing you something.
You, anon, believe that someone owes you something. Who and what?

>>12907780
fascism is pro-exceptional human and anti-spineless, impotent faggot human, which works

>>12906860
Do you really mean this, anon? Do you really desire to enact violence on fellow human beings, simply because they hold different viewpoints than you?

Or is this just a kind of banter you employ?

>>12907743
Look it up, kiddo

>>12906273
The financial elite aren't in the least bit frightened of you LARPers

>>12907746
Why? You really want my toothbrush lad?

>>12907796
>Was Marx a kind individual? I just read his quote about "the last capitalist we hang...", and it made me really sad
That's a fake quote (has been attributed to Marx, Lenin, etc.). Marx wasn't spiteful. He was opposed to capitalists but he wasn't about wanton violence.

>>12907843
Oh phew, thank you anon. He otherwise seemed so kind and friendly and caring for all people, so seeing that quote really threw me off.

>>12907811
Fascism explicitly failed to make the übermensch, I'm sorry to be the one to tell you this
>>12907822
That's because they successfully coopted the American "left" and turned their entire party structure into neoliberal nonsense, But This Time With Gays And Negroes. The American left used to have teeth, but they were removed by force in the 20s and 30s.
>>12907743
He explained it poorly. The point was the groups of "white," "black," "asian" etc. were manufactured - all white people do not have a shared culture and history, nor do all blacks or all asians. This grouping is only relevant in the US.

>>12907853
The most "violent" thing he said was about how the proletariat should be armed and that they should be suspicious of people who want to take their guns away.

I've also heard rumours that he was a little insensitive by asking Engels for money immediately after his sister died, but I've never found a source for it.

>>12907811
>fascism is pro-exceptional human
and yet has never generated one
>and anti-spineless, impotent faggot human
well then I'll keep fighting against it on your behalf

>>12907780
“Human” as a category only serves to detract from whatever value can life can produce.

>>12907796
>do communists and capitalists truly hate eachother and actually want to hurt eachother
capitalists kill communists all the time, at this very moment Abrams is trying to smuggle guns into Venezuela like he did in Nicaragua

>>12907879
And how do you fight it exactly? Do you actually go to those LARP offs irl?

>>12907861
Social constructs arent inherently bad. Its a useful catergorization tool people take to seriously but for its purpose it works

>>12907876
From the outside, Marx seems like someone that anyone who has read into admires, and everyone else hates by virtue of cultural programming. I'm going to try and read into him. I believe firmly in equality and in the sharing of property, and helping everyone that you can. If only he wasn't merely materialist, but had a spiritual dimension to his system too, then that would be even better.

>>12907892
I don't know what this means but it makes me sad. You shouldn't be hurting anyone. Our modern politicians seem like such psychopaths, in how mercilessly they hurt others for personal gain, without remorse.

Capitialism youre a faceless production unit while they lie in your face about it, marxism is at least honest that youre only good for your work. Idk why anyone likes either though. Whats the real alternative?

>>12907892
This makes me really sad, too. I hope it's not true.

>>12907734
I'm not a socialist.
>>12907824
I'd assume that would fall under personal property.

>>12907709
>fake quote
Nothing gets by you, does it?

>>12907997
cool post bud

>>12907761
That smells like collectivism to me bro, get a work ethic and stop wondering why you're not supposed to act collectively to protect your interests against people who are acting collectively to pursue theirs.

>>12907892
Can’t blame anyone for that. Socialists/anarchists are such a threat to a worthwhile existence that they are less deserving of of ethical consideration than any other form of pest.

>>12907937
Have you read Les Miserables, out of curiosity? That seems like your kind of book. I agree though. We should all unironically learn to love each other.

>>12907780
It's the only pro-human, pro-spirit way left that I'm aware of.

>>12908028
Did you also notice how OP's quote is fake? It's subtle.

>>12906025

>>12906077
this guy

>>12906332
try reading Marx one day

>>12905982
Some retarded Jew shit

>>12907991
Post-civilization anarchism
Mutualism
Neo-Georgism

>>12908047
I really can’t see why common humanity should compel such feelings when other forms of identity are capable of creating much more meaningful forms of kinship and are often in conflict with other identities.

If communism works on a family level then it can work on a community level. It will only work when humanity is rational enough

>>12906988
>points to countries that operate under union bargining
>brags about no need for minimum wage
we really don't need any more proof that right wingers don't read or understand the economy, please stop posting

>>12907991
Global euthanasia (i.e. colective suicide)

>>12908124
Wrong! Families fail as soon as someone inside it is abusive. Good luck creating a society in which abusive members don't succeed after a while.

>>12907741
private property anon, which is separate from personal property. you can own the things you use, there's no issue with that. it's private property, ownership over the means of production which Marx argues must be held in common.

>>12908143
How can you exploit people in a society without money?

>>12908168
Resources, corruption ...

>>12908124
>IM FUCKING PLYING

>>12906116
Marx didn't have a system in mind. The only thing he wrote was that in aworld with no capital, one could wake up a farmer, spend the afternoon as a fisherman, and philosophize at night or smth like that.

>>12908113
Respect for common humanity would involve respecting that these difference in identity exist and thus not engaging in conflict unless it's done in self-defence.

The biggest obstacle to this kind of society is that fact that many people behave in an irrationally selfish manner, and believe their views should have total hegemony over the world.

>>12908168
This is not what Marx thought. the idea that you can simply remove money and solve society is naive idealism, the Pharoah had slaves long before money existed. The only solution is the abolition of class distinction, anything less is ignoring the flaws inherent in the mode of production

>>12908155
the struggle between controlling the means of production for everyone else's benefit and the owners of the means of production controlling it for their benefit will wage forever. The struggle is eternal and will exist no matter what if the free market prevails.

Unless some form of socialism exists.

For me, I think utilities are enough, but if an attractive form of socialism shows itself to be feasible I wouldn't mind the transition.

What matters above all though, is not the form of government, but the behavior of the individuals.

>>12905982
Kek

>>12906060
no they are not.

t. a fascist

>>12908197
I am :3

>>12907991
Fascism

>>12908236
Fascism is an unsustainable system that relies too much on conflict and the charisma of one individual leader. One the cult of personality crumbles, or conflict ceases, the entire system collapses.

I think the ultimate and final argument against Marxism is its proponents, particularly in online discussion.
They can't detect humor or sarcasm, and they can't take any banter or criticism without becoming visibly upset. Marxists are so childish. Trash attracts trash.

>>12908256
Their memes are fucking dreadful. Even normalfags come up with better shit. YIKES

>>12908251
Fascism relies on nationalism, not conflict

>>12908256
>>12908270
it's strange how the right has devolved into this weird persecution of memes, and yet I haven't seen a decent right wing meme in at least two years

>>12907761
>It's 35 year old virgins that are to blame for our collapsed health care system, opioid epidemic, unbelievably prevalent debt, acidifying oceans, melting ice caps, dissolved culture, and corrupt government sold out to corporate interests
Yep sounds about right

>>12908236
This is for brainlets. Facism is more loose than my stools. only people who are attracted to it are those who don't belong anywhere but buy into capitalist lies about some great past that never existed.

>>12908251
You are spouting nonsense. Autocracy has worked for fucking ever.

>>12908290
What? You don't like pepe#4675?

>>12907892
Meanwhile the government and FAES have actually and not just theoretically/speculatively executed political dissidents.

>>12908287
"Nationalism" is a malleable concept that relies more on the common notion of a shared past, no matter how much that past might actually be shared in reality. This common identity is used by states to render outsiders as "others" and thus justify military conquest. Name a single fascist regime that wasn't about crushing the opposition through force.

>>12908321
>autocracy has worked for ever
>when autocratic societies always collapse
Whatever you say.

>>12908168
Anon...

>>12906992
>>12907002
>>12908130
Contrary to memes, capitalism isn't opposed to unions any more than it's opposed to consortiums.

>>12908290
I believe you 100%.

>>12908290
Post a good leftie meme

>>12908354
ALL societies eventually collapse. You are completley niave if you think that any form of government is immune to that.

>>12908392
the soviet union existed for 69 years

>>12908354
Some stuck around for like 500+ years.

Im actually surpeised liberalism is still chugging along and likely not gonna stop

>>12908392
Post a good right one. The only thing the internet right does is attract edgy kids and boomers who like to spout "fuck nikkerss XD".

>>12908364
>capitalism isn't opposed to unions
They literally shot unionists in the streets back in the day you mongoloid. the only reason unions are tolerated today is to appease specific labour groups the government can't afford to lose to collective action. When Bismark wanted to kill the Communist movement in Germany, he implemented labour rights and old age pensions; now do you think that was because Bismark was swayed by the arguments of the socialists, or do you think he was cutting the legs out from under the German left?

>>12908392
I never argued the left could meme, I argued the right couldn't. Don't tell me you can't meme OR read...

>>12908190
The problem is that you assume that it’s driven by selfishness rather than inherent contradictions in certain identities that don’t allow them to coexist within the same space with any sort of parity.

As someone who wants to live under a state, I cannot safely coexist with someone who identifies as an anarchist no matter how human they are. Being a member of our species is so fundamental that it is rendered that it is superseded by any other identity, and the notion that existence and presence are merely neutral is nothing more than a fallacy.

>>12908413
Nice.

>>12906025
The only things Marx was right about was the materialistic root of human interaction and the tendency of capitalism to collapse. Even in those cases he was only half-right because you can't separate idealism and materialism when it comes to human relations and how they're created and capitalism exists in is a perpetual cycle of collapse and resurgence.

>>12906723
Yes you have to read a long and boring work while there are many other edifying and enjoyable works available. Even 20th century Marxist writers are more bearable.

>>12908425
The fact that certain capitalists shot union workers doesn't contradict anything I said you fucking retarded mongoloid. That's like saying capitalism opposes high or low commodity prices because certain capitalists don't want that. Capitalism isn't a single person or interest group you dumb sperg.
>They
Get out of here with that brainlet-level shit.

>>12906791
>completely fails to mention that the entirety of the Soviet industrial complex was based on literal slave labor and the complete destabilization of neighboring countries for resources, as well as the fact that there was absolutely no social infrastructure to the point where farmers were starving to death even thought the government had silos full of grains

>>12908392

Some one summarize Marx's ideas so I can decide whether he was based or not

>>12908528
No it isn't a certain group but generally it's in the best interest of capitalist class to keep wages low. I know this is contradictory since capitalist want to sell as much stuff as possible and that is hard while everyone has low wages. Lucky for them you can export industry to third word and pay people shit there.
>>12908541
Jesus this is getting old. Why is all criticism of socialism based on Stalin? I love this argument. Because like we all know the USSR only had economic growth under Stalin and after that living standards didn't increase and all of the work was done by slave labor (amazingly, after gulags were abolished!).

>>12906325
It went to /mu/

>>12908591
/mu/ is worse than /lit/

>>12906025
Ideally speaking, everyone should work at their best capacity for themselves and each other. In a perfect world we'd all share if needed, but we wouldn't have to because we'd all be doing our damndest to contribute. And if there was a need to help your brothers an impartial center administration could have a pot paid into to provide for those needy few.

BUT in the real world, there's no such thing as an impartial administrator. Everyone always, even if by accident, looks out for himself and his own first. And of course not everyone is working to their full capacity.

Communism makes sense, but not for human beings

>>12908341
Every form of government is about crushing the opposition

>>12908256
this desu
Regardless of the ideological coherence they're something fundamentally at odds with nature and tend to manifest in negative traits. It's enough to prove against them.

>>12908580
Well you can't summarize them. he wouldn't have written books ranging from history to economics if you could. If you want to get the gist of what communist want it's to abolish classes and have a society which takes care of people's needs so we can focus our life on things we find important instead of being a wageslave for the rest of your life. Of course this doesn't mean the strawman that everything will be free or we won't work anymore.

>>12908583
>Why is all criticism of socialism based on Stalin?
Why wouldn't it be? Every country that tries to implement communism ends up with stalinism in one way or another (or more often than not, in all ways possible).

>>12908608
>Communism makes sense, but not for human beings
Communism doesn't make sense even if human beings were perfectly benevolent, because it doesn't solve the economic calculation problem.

>>12908423

>>12908623
What does Stalinism supposed to mean? If you mean they are authoritarian than I ask you to look at socialist countries that aren't like Chile or Guatemala and their history. Funny thing is the same problem happens in every socialist country. Kinda stange don't you think?
>>12908641
This isn't a problem. It was literally though it was impossible for socialist economy to exist while somehow it existed. Other thing is that it's possible with computers today.

>>12908583
What you call "capitalist class" != capitalism

The former is looking at the system from a particular player within the system, the latter is looking at the system as a whole to assess what kind of structure produces the best social outcomes. It's abundantly clear given the experiments of the 20th century that communism results in bad outcomes, while capitalism results in good ones, regardless of what players within the system think or do.

>export industry to third word and pay people shit there
And thereby increase their standard of living over time. The fact of the matter is that free trade is the most effective engine for alleviating world poverty, even more so than charity.

>>12908670
>This isn't a problem.
>Figuring out how to efficiently allocate factors of production isn't a problem
Yeah ok buddy.
>Other thing is that it's possible with computers today.
Computers make the economy more complex, not less. It's clear you have zero knowledge or experience of electronic markets.