/lit/ - Literature

start smoking cigarettes right now

No thanks big tabako

>>12901741
This is how brainlets think.
They cannot entertain something so opposed to their normal mode of thought that they think shills must be behind it. It shows a very closed mind.

wtf I love smoking now???

>>12901727
how many studies does it quote?
>ZERO

>>12901765
no one who matters gives a fuck about “studies”

>>12901765
Academia's been compromised

>>12901774
>kekistani lives matter!!!

>smoking is good for you, because people enjoy it and gives them comfort
wtf I love heroin now

>>12901727
Philosophically speaking, he's correct.

>>12901751
Idk I can't fathom any smoker (at any point in history) did not know this shit is bad for you. I've been a heavy smoker for almost ten years now, any smoker (non-teenager or beginner) I talk to agrees that it is a disgusting habit without having to see arguments or studies.

>>12901751
>The Whitby story illustrates a flagrant saga of industry duplicity. Senior industry officials from two consecutive CEOs of Philip Morris down were advised that Whitby was as “nutty as a fruit cake”.24 Despite this, the industry “quietly encourag[ed] him through one of the companies”19 and promoted him to journalists as a legitimate and informed voice critical of the evidence that smoking caused disease.
that's literally the case here tho

>>12901809
I'm surprised noone has seen the film since that's what we do here on /lit/

>>12901809
They latched on to him after the fact, not before it.

>>12901799
That's because it has been indoctrinated into you and them. People in the past thought it was literally good for your lungs.

>>12901741
>>12901809
>TOBACCO = BAD, {ALL COUNTER OPINIONS REJECT>>>> ACCOST AS SHILL, FIND EVIDENCE FOR THIS CLAIM AND NOT THE MERITS OF THE ARGUMENT, DO NOT CONSIDER, DO NOT CONSIDER, DO NOT CONSIDER]

>>12901833
>>>/pol/

>>12901843
Your inability to divorce concepts, ideas, indeed, even memes with groups or the individual who is advocating them continues still and is further proof that you're a brainlet.

>>12901826
It's not that simple.
>In 1604, King James VI wrote ‘A Counterblaste to Tobacco’, arguing that smoking was dangerous to lung health and offensive to the senses.
But later on, yez,doctors thought it was somehow good for your lungs and for many other strange things - without realising that inhaling smoke, regardless of the herb being burnt, is damaging to the lungs. I don't know if the middle ground of stupidity can be salvaged by talking of 'paradigm shifts'. Medicine and self-care, in most cases, seems straightforward, though I admit I sound delusional.

>>12901833
have fun with COPD

>>12901849
and your spouting of retardation with gleeful abandon betrays your actual nature ;)

>>12901833
You can ingnore the health issue, and still smoking will be bad, because tabaco costs 1£ a per pound and big corporation sell 50g of it for 5£ .

>>12901857
People had varying opinions then, and actually could advocate and debate the matter without being accosted as a shill.

>>12901867

yeah, because we have this thing called science that allows us to progress in knowledge :)

>>12901889
get back in the cage Pinker

>i-it's not an addiction giving my hard earned money to rich American jews for the p-privilege of dying of cancer is an integral part of my identity

>>12901900
>>>/pol/

Anti-semitism doesn't belong here

>>12901900
Tobacco built America, bud.

>>12901905

>>12901911
Brave

>>12901889
The irony is that you are not practicing science here. You reject all counter claims and hypotheses without asserting why. You resort to ad hominem slanders.

>know smoking is bad for you
>still smoke because it's nice to do, looks cool, makes socialising easier, and makes me feel relaxed
>not too fussed about dying early because I'm only 18, smoke 1 or 2 a day for like 6 months, and am almost certain I won't live long enough to actually die from smoking-related causes

>>12901911
>dude being born to a certain ethnicity means you are part of a conspiracy to rule the world

"no"

>>12901922
>know smoking is bad for you
How do you know? I thought I knew smoking was bad until I read Whitby.
Read the book and reconsider your beliefs.

>>12901918
Rejecting claims not backed with any scientific study or evidence is not ad hom, sweaty ;))

>>12901900
Doesn't cause cancer.
Read Whitby.
Examine the evidence for yourself.

>>12901926
Shut up retard it's obvious. Just because it's bad doesn't mean you have to stop, just embrace it and live your life without trying to convince yourself of your own purity and goodness.

>>12901922
being the only guy who doesnt smoke in a group of smokers makes you stand out tho

>>12901795
>philosophically

stop using this word like this, it makes you sound retarded

>>12901938
No, it isn't obvious.

>>12901941
do you mean the other way round? cause I am the only person in my group of friends who regularly smokes

>>12901923
You can get baptized Shlomo

>>12901949
oh, so it's the other way around.

i guess it can go both ways

>>12901900
jokes on you, I grow my own tobacco

>>12901949
as in, you can be the only guy who doesnt smoke and the only guy who smokes

>>12901960
yeah, course you can. and desu I don't think it's a problem. If you're outside second-hand smoke is no problem, and it's entirely up to you whether to smoke or not to smoke. either way you'll stand out but that's not necessarily a bad thing (especially cause smoking looks cool lmao)

>>12901935
>Examine the evidence for yourself.
huh turns out smoking also causes heart disease who would have thought
t. my otherwise perfectly fit, in-shape, dad had a heart attack at 52 - doctors found no plausible explanation except his 35 years of smoking

>>12901972
post hoc ergo propter hoc
n=1

>>12901980
would be valid if he was the only subject
smoking is known from n=big studies to about double the odds of a heart attack (small time compared to the triple rate of strokes and 40x rate of lung cancer but a 100% increase is still huge)

imagine actually WANTING to live past 40

>>12901991
Remember that Jesus died at 33. I think Schopenhauer was sort of right when he said that on average every man experiences everything life has to offer in their first 20 years or so and we just cyclically relive the same experiences in an increasingly less significant and meaningful way until we die, dying multiple times until the final death.

oh this is SO GOOD

Reminder.

>>12902070
>can improve handwriting

Well, I'm sold.

What is the healthiest way to have tobacco that still includes the mental benefits?

>>12902081
Unfiltered, roll your own, with organic tobacco.

>>12902081
rip the juul

did anyone even see the inside of this thing????

the dude who wrote it was a major bigot too, quite obvious just a few pages in. homophobe. transphobe.

why are we taking whitby seriously again????

fuck this thread. take this """""book""""""", this anti-science, anti-gay, piece of shit to the 18th century where it belongs.

>>12902081
gum
but basically anything that does not involve inhaling hot smoke is a vast improvement
aside from the extreme addictive potential pure nicotine isn't actually that harmful
irritating the lungs and vessels through tar and small particulates is the most dangerous part (the one that causes lung cancer and the one that accumulates in your veins, clogging them leading to heart attacks and strokes)

but keep in mind the addiction is no joke, this shit is basically the most addictive substance known aside from heroin and other opioids, beating out amphetamines and cocaine

also if mental benefits are what you're after probably look into more potent and less addictive nootropics like ginseng, bacopa monnieri and even just caffeine
nicotine is sometimes used for this effect but generally not recommended - again because of the extreme addictive potential

>>12901833
>>12901751
what is the upside of tabaco? cant you just take liquid nicotine and get the same effect with far fewer risks?

>>12902124
Tobacco contains Coenzyme Q10 and polyphenols. It also increases nitric oxide levels which offset the vasoconstrictor effect of nicotine.
Nicotine also does not have "extreme addictive potential". It's only shown to be reinforcing with mao-inhibitors and even then, it's only about as addictive as coffee, with similar withdrawal symptoms. In fact, nicotine withdrawal is even shorter than caffeine withdrawal.
>this shit is basically the most addictive substance known aside from heroin and other opioids, beating out amphetamines and cocaine
This is patently false.

>>12902144
Tobacco is to nicotine
What coffee is to caffeine.
Tobacco has additional psychoactive effects. Pure nicotine raises my blood pressure. Tobacco smoke doesn't.

>>12902146
>It also increases nitric oxide levels which offset the vasoconstrictor effect of nicotine.
maybe in the short term, but long term blood vessel irritation causing to plaque buildup and clogging and ultimately heart attacks and strokes are well established
>In fact, nicotine withdrawal is even shorter than caffeine withdrawal
this is true, but withdrawal is only one facet of addiction
in particular the psychological dependence on nicotine tends to be through the roof
pic related is only one way to measure it but pretty much no matter how you do it the addictive potential of nicotine is absurd

>>12902151
maybe thats because its weaker?

>>12902025
fuck you for posting this, god damn it

>>12902175
>in particular the psychological dependence on nicotine tends to be through the roof
Or low IQ people with behavioral addictions are using it and they incorrectly believe its nicotine and not themselves.
Nicotine does not have any psychological pull for most people. I quit smoking for days and weeks at a time, because I run out of paper or money and just don't bother with it. Or I just feel like stopping.
>pic related is only one way to measure it but pretty much no matter how you do it the addictive potential of nicotine is absurd
t. someone lying out of his ass and backing it up with useless tables from Wikipedia relying on dubiously poor studies, probably from psychology PhD and "addiction specialists" and not psychopharmacologists. You were already blown the fuck out before a few months ago and here you are again.

This thread is another symptom of Clown World. What's next, inhaling asbestos is good for you? This counter culture meme has gone too far. Unironically kill yourselves.

>>12902222
t. refused to even consider the case in the book because he doesn't like to have his beliefs challenged.

>>12901727
Very interesting. I would say if smoking is good or has a neutral effect, it’s only in moderation, like less than 10 per day. If I smoke more than that, it starts to feel disgusting, my throat gets rough, and I get tickle coughs. Granted, I’m usually anxious or unwell in some way when I’m inclined to smoke that much, but most of the effect is smoking related

>>12902206
I'm sure you're very smart and special but regardless of your personal brilliance quitting nicotine proves very difficult for people in the general case and is not comparable to caffeine or ginseng in this respect

>>12901751
Why would I want to become dependant on a substance that is not neccesary? I don't consume caffeine for the same reason.

>>12902222
Seeing the OP reminded me of the whole flat Earth thing. These people think that being skeptical is the same as dismissing established consensus just for the sake of it. It seems to me like a relatively new phenomenon, but I'm not sure if it is. It's a really interesting sign of the historical moment we find ourselves in.

>>12901900
American Spirit isn’t connected to any of the major companies

>>12902232
I WONDER WHY IT WOULD BE DIFFICULT

>>12901905
nice meme

>>12902249
Straw man.

Only smoke one after sex, so 95% of lit will never smoke again

>>12902222
Quads of Truth

>why yes, I would like to look 80 at age 50, why do you ask? *hits ciggie*

>>12901765
and martha stewart happens to be my hero

>>12902108
This is terrible.
Will he recant?

>>12902249
BASED

>>12901765
It quotes a number of studies if you actually read it.
But you didn't.

>>12902264
nobody said it was an argument, but there's a pretty obvious parallel. I bet there's significant crossover between people who believe this shit and flat earth, because I have noticed among redpill types this new "smoking is actually good, don't believe the jewish lies" meme. this is why the internet is bad for normies, it turns people into this.

>>12902251
American Spirit is owned by BAT.

>>12902249
this mode of thinking started with american conservatives denying evolution
but it has evolved since, blatant anti-intellectualism and the substituting ideology for reality has spread
>conservatives reject evolution because muh bible
>conservatives reject global warming because muh coal is good
>liberals reject gender differences because muh equality
>liberals reject racial differences because muh equality
>tumblr rejects rejects medical science because muh donuts taste good
>4chan rejects medical science because muh smoking looks good

this is far from an exhaustive list but this shit is found everywhere

>>12902175
How are they measuring pleasure? Amphetamines are far beyond tobacco

>>12902319
40 IQ post right here

>>12902319
evolution is mythology

>>12902327
Whoops, meant for >>12902332

>>12902327
ah yes, there's another one
>IQ is wrong because it's racist
or
>IQ proves literally everything and is the end all be all on human intelligence because it showed niggers are dumb

>>12902319
Evolution is not a science

whitby is obvi a retard and lunatic there's stuff in here I like...


—Then I was struck by the fact that it was only since the Atomic Bomb that lung cancer had become so prevalent.

—I have found that smokers and generally happy and contented people. I feel that they are less likely to commit suicide than non-smokers.

—Many people find that there are worse smells emanating from human beings than tobacco.

—It is well known by the psychologists that a certain type of person will get no greater pleasure out of life than in preventing his fellow to do something they enjoy[…]These are sick people, suffering, according to the psychiatrists, from some sexual maladjustment.

—Now as a result of anti-smokers’ fear campaign their sense of smell has become magnified.

—Thomas Edison[...]would not employ anyone who smoked.

—What a century we live in!

—On Doctors: Like little gods they bully their patients . . .

—On a young single mother being jailed for cigarette-smoking: This happened in a country that calls itself enlightened -- the Land of the Free. The people of China and Russia must just-about bust a rib laughing when they hear of this.

>>12902337
It depends on what you mean by evolution. Abiogenisis for example is as absurd and speculative as any ancient creation myth. It's literally a naturalist repackaging of the Orphic myth.

>>12902305
>I bet there's significant crossover between people who believe this shit and flat earth, because I have noticed among redpill types this new "smoking is actually good, don't believe the jewish lies" meme. this is why the internet is bad for normies, it turns people into this.
Congratulations for intensifying the strawman. The irony considering a poster of this exact sort accosted pro-smoking as being Jewish; so by that logic, people such as yourself should be considered in the same camp as flat earthers. It's stupid either way. People who group ideas into categories of people are low IQ.
People criticizing smoking studies are not appealing to conspiracy at all either. They are just questioning the reliability of relying 100% on epidemiological studies.

>>12902348
>Abiogenisis
is not necessitated by evolution
although it still remains as the only reasonable possibility (ie. doesn't just resort to magic or a god of the gaps)

>>12902346

*if only for laughs, that is

>>12902346
Read the sequel

>The Smoking Scare Debunked
http://wispofsmoke.net/PDFs/Whitby.pdf..

>>12902363
the only reasonable possibility is that we don't know the origin of life. abiogenesis is retarded

>>12901734
/thread.

Cope: The Thread
People really are THIS afraid of death, huh?

>>12902363
On naturalist materialist grounds you have to assume something akin to it.

>>12902365
broken URL with period at the end

http://wispofsmoke.net/PDFs/Whitby.pdf

>>12902175
>psychological dependence on nicotine tends to be through the roof

True as hell, smoked a pack for fun after 5 years of no smoking and the addiction and dependance was like i was a chain smoker for 20 years, not good. Went cold turkey again. Also my fitness during that time span of smoking suffered enormously and i even had 2 asthma attacks of nowhere and had to use inhaler.

>>12901727
Craziern' a runaway slave ain't ya boy?

>>12902372
> he wants to sell you death as a subscription plan
Fuck you, I'm not paying for the ONE thing that nature has given me for free. Capitalism was the greatest mistake of all.

>>12902367
abiogenesis is basically a catch-all term for a materialistic explanation
the exact process is unknown and will almost certainly remain so for a long time

>>12902375
exactly
but strictly speaking you can assume a magical origin of life and evolution taking over from that point
evolution as a concept is applicable to all life (and life-like entities) as we understand it and does require any particular origin of the beings in question

>>12902319
>>4chan rejects medical science because muh smoking looks good
Haven't read OP's book, but smoking is bad isn't science. Science unfortunately for the public health system has found smoking can be beneficial (it can prevent cancers) in some cases, but if you say that to the public health system they get as mad as when you point out fluoride can do damage to teeth in the wrong doses.
It's a bit like recommending diet and exercise to everyone: overall it's good but putting someone with a heart condition on that programme might kill them.

>>12902353
again, a strawman is a type of argument you fucking crackpot e-addicted idiot, nobody is making an argument. it's just an observation. the observation is that if you collected all the people who believe in this pro-smoking shit, they would be a bunch of flat earth tier shitposters who have a working relationship with pills of the red variety. that does not prove that smoking is or isn't bad, it's just an observation to be used as a heuristic.

>what if those dunces who are clearly retarded on other issues AND contradict very established facts in a way that even goes against my personal experience, are actually correct?

it's just not worth consideration, and as a side note this pro-smoking belief is also always part of the "never touched a barbell or ran more than a half mile in my life" starter pack because if you actually have any experience with fitness the pro-smoking shit becomes doubly absurd. your run time will suffer, your recovery from lifts will be worse, etc. smoking is simply not conducive to living a high tier lifestyle

PS: please stay here and do not shit up the wellbeck thread any further

>>12902393
t. didn't read the book or this thread.
Tobacco does not cause cancer, period. Show me a single experimental study where tobacco smoke was able to induce cancer at rates above control in healthy test subjects in any species. You can't.

>>12902405
But it is an argument against what is being said as the jab is exactly intended to defraud those you refuse to address. You refuse to argue with them in the first place and instead stand at the sides and say "omg, I can't believe, this, they must be like flat earthers". It's pathetic.

>>12901784
People used to take it in the early last century and everything was fine. Most of the deaths caused by heroine nowadays are due to overdose or a reaction to whatever your dealer is mixing the heroine with.
So, if you get pure heroine and know your doses, there would be no problem.

>>12902407
http://medicolegal.tripod.com/preventlungcancer.htm

>>12902419
Yeah man, every crazy asshole coming up with stupid shit that contradicts everything we know needs to be argued with instead of just laughed at.

>>12902405
You can't argue against cigcuks, they will just call you lunglet and muh nicotine benefits. Let them shill it as long as they an we know that smoking is low tier. Especially in 19'

what i've gathered from this thread:
-pure nicotine can give you SLIIIGHT upsides (but y'know you can just drink coffee for the same results)
-every person that has ever studied smoking, no matter if he is for or against it, can be proven to be a brainlet with like 2 lines of counterarguments

conclusion:
it's still safer to just not touch that shit, no matter the possible slight upsides or major downsides

>>12902431
Cigarette smokers know smoking's bad - I am one, and very few of us try to convince people to pick it up. It's these crazy fucks like OP that actually believe this shit. We just do it because we like it or can't quit.

>>12902429
>hmmm, anti smoking science is 100% epidemiological data
>DUDE WTF YOU REEEEEE YOU ARE A CRAZY ASSHOLE WTF, ITS SETTLED SMOKING CAUSES CANCER REEEEEEEEE LMAOing AT YOUR LIFE BRO

>>12902425
the caveat being that the difference between an active dose and a lethal dose of heroin is very small which is why overdoses are so common for heroin in particular compared to other drugs
not to mention the addiction which is probably the most severe of any known substance

>>12902443
Take your meds son.

>>12902419
I am just saying that considering the comparisons that can be made, you should re-evaluate things. First of all, everybody knows at least cursorily that doctors say you should be active. If you want to get aware'd on smoking fast, start running and then get up to a consistent six minute mile, this should open your eyes wide the fuck open on smoking, Whatever The Truth May Be™ whether good or bad.

For my part, I smoked for years and quit, and I am an athlete, so I did my legwork and my conclusion is it's fucking terrible, your turn bro.

>>12902459
If you're stupid enough to argue with them, maybe /r/eddit is better for you.

>>12902425
>everything was fine
That's an extreme revisionist take. Take this work from 1928:

https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015006502523;view=1up;seq=9

>>12902440
Yeah but if you know its bad and still do it you are coping really bad. I smoked 2 packs a day and my whole family even more. Quit 4 years ago cause it was literally killing me. Sometimes i miss a cig so bad. Its a lifetime addiction but try quitting

SMOKE

>>12902470
I'm at one pack a week, I don't smoke at work or at home, or walking down the street. I feel like if I can control it enough I don't need to quit, that is until I get fucking sick of it. Every once in a while I get that short high I used to get when I first picked it up.

>>12902459
Not him, but a twenty year smoker who swims a mile a day. You get cardio and lung capacity benefits from exercise regardless of smoking. It used be common for track athletes to smoke, and it's still common for people who compete at altitude because smoking helps your run times at altitude. It's no longer common for track athletes to smoke but for a lot of mountain running, it's a common legal performance enhancer.

>>12902482
>Every once in a while I get that short high I used to get when I first picked it up.
fuck I remember that, haven't gotten one even when I quit and relapsed

>>12902082

I did this for months and got bronchitis

>>12902491
From Christmas til mid February I haven't touched one cigarette, not as in quitting but didn't feel like it. Met a friend in a bar and that was the first time I smelled tobacco on someone in nearly a decade. Weird shit.