/lit/ - Literature

Some cuckold hates a shitty fantasy book because the book has too many white males for his liberal queer sensibilities? Who cares?

Your dick is too small chuck, you are too white to have an opinion. The real wendigo has more of an effect on reality than you and all your derivative boring thoughts. Shove an Afro-futurist cock in that open mouth and fulfill your desires of autoerotic asphyxiation. The only sounds I want to hear from your irrelevant ass are death rattles.

>>12850621

Lord of the Star Potter schisms mean the Democratic party has truly stopped being a national party.

Lately I've been having a lot of weird, sudden memories of the thoughts I had about things when I was 16-21, usually when I'm engaging with the thing in question, so I can contrast my experience of them now with my younger experience. A lot of the time they're really cringe, naive, and simplistic. In a subtle way I can't articulate it has made me more humble about how much of who I am is a product of time and effort spent cultivating myself, and not on any basic wisdom or maturity that was always innate to me.

Somehow I think I used to assume implicitly that, a few glaring but surface-level particulars aside, I was basically the same person between 16-21 and where I am now, and if I had really thought long and hard about anything, I would have come to the same basic conclusions.

Now I realize how necessary it is to spend long years forcing yourself to become more than you are innately. But more than that, I also have a kind of extra-sensory perception for immature pseudery, because I have now smelled the stink of my own past immaturity across space and time. And the weird thing is, I constantly smell that stink on thirtysomething and even fortysomething men, usually men on social media. Somehow they are stuck the way I was when I was 18 and I though my shallow, barely-developed opinions and viewpoints about things were insightful and everybody should have to listen to them.

Again it's hard to articulate exactly, it's more like a visual image than anything, it's like they are a flattened two-dimensional plane full of undifferentiated swirling colors and distractions, and they never learned that the point of maturing is to add three-dimensional depth and topographical complexity to your world-picture as you age. It's not that they have dumb opinions, it's that they lack the inner differentiation to understand what it means to meaningfully take a stance or to distinguish one opinion from another. They have that same confused, swirling mixture of immature affects and pop-cultural associations in anything they do, so they think getting on the public YakBak and doing all the appropriate rituals gives legitimacy to their ideas, and they end up sounding and acting like I did at 17.

A grown man making a "tweet" about how he doesn't like some venerable fantasy literature because it isn't enough like his video game fantasy literature is not a case of some guy having a bad opinion, it's a case of a fairly dumb 16 year old boy growing into a 16 year old man who happens to be 36 on the outside. Something has gone wrong there, at a deeper level than the contents of his mind. His mind itself is malformed or only partly formed. It's not enough to say, "I have a mind and he has a mind, but his has bad contents." Looking at Chuck Wendig's mind is like looking at a dog's mind in a human body. I want to clarify I don't know who Chuck Wendig is.

now sneed wendig

Said the guy who writes Star Wars tran-fiction

>>12850678
Good observation, though I think you could have been more concise. That might just be personal taste though.

>>12850621
Not worth a sniff. The power of his slander is directly proportionate to the eventual memory of Chuck's work.

Suffice to say, just because something is popular doesn't mean it's good. But let's just say that the influence of LOTR is thus that it could be reasonably argued that if it wasn't for Tolkien, there wouldn't be a Chuck in the first place.

>>12850621
back to your containment thread genreshitter

>>12850678
I have felt for a while now that who I was a teenager is far superior to who I am now in my mid-twenties. I was smarter, a better friend, knew who I was, used evidence to come to my conclusions, and I could accomplish a great deal with the amount of care I showed to others and a natural ability to solve problems. I have truly never understood people who say things like “I wish I knew what I know now when I was younger” and “gah, I was such an idiot back then”

>>12850621
who?

>couldn't get through it
lol

Report screenshot threads. Ban Twitter posters. Contribute to a better lit.

>>12850621
Based.

White males out of the Western Canon!

Fascism out of literature!

Sirs and gentlemen, you are falling for sensationalism.
That weakling isn't expressing his actual opinion. PC culture is just a sham for attention. It's clickbait!

Formerly Sneed Wendig

>This book that founded the fantasy genre has old and overused tropes

i totally agree with the first tweet

>>12850678
you could've just said 'lole his a manchild' instead of that

Well he admits it's an unpopular opinion, thankfully it is

>>12850865
that would be equally dumb desu. he could've just posted the last paragraph and it would be fine. he should edit his post and remove all the other trash

Edit: This blew up. RIP my inbox.

>>12850621
/sffg/ really needs its own manchild board

I honestly do not understand why you guys are still entertained by children's toys. Why aren't you bored with this shit by now? Why do you want to be 14 forever? Most people grow out of this in high school

Read a fucking book. A real book--not a children's cartoon about space aliens who say the F word and talk about sex in a smarmy faggot sitcom voice.

Basically, I'm asking you to stop being faggots. That's what I request of you. Stop being such colossal fucking faggots and read a book that's well-written and entertaining

>>12850621
>Fartman roasting a 100 year-old book over archaic writing style and abusing the tropes it has started.

Maybe the growing illiteracy in the 1st world isn't such a bad thing.

Good strategy as a writer, piss of tolkien fans. because there's not many of them or anything.

>>12850898
>triggered

>>12850621
>literal who has an opinion

>>12850621
If you really can't "get through" or appreciate LotR I don't really have anything to say. This guy is clearly a brainlet, and he looks like a redditor.

>>12850621
Reading this guy’s twitter feed honestly has me despairing for humanity. How can one man be so fucking infantile, and have so many fat, butter-faced faggots agreeing with him?

>>12850698
>>12850865
rambling effortposts are peak /lit/, please don't homogenize the last good thing about this board

>>12850981
He worked on comic books or something equally gay for bugmen

>>12850988
they are pure cringe. every single one of them, and i say this as an anon who writes them myself. i just write it to let the garbage flow out of my system, i'd never waste a good take on this board. i assume other anons do the same

>>12850988

checked. And this.

>>12850994
>cwinge

have an original thought for once

>>12850989
That explains it a bit better then. I doubt the world would miss men like him if they were all to disappear tomorrow.

>>12850678
I have been feeling the same way, anon. I like returning to books I read when I was younger and replaying that experience in my head while adding onto it with my current experiences. I don't cringe at that naivete because it's a natural part of the maturation process, but a lot of people dont develop any further.
I think this is because these people have not been challenged in a meaningful way. I work with people who are not intellectuals and don't care about literature but have more depth than the office workers I interact with or people on Twitter. They are not physically or psychologically challenged by their work and it shows. Even worse, they don't want to be challenged.

>>12850621
he does realize WHEN LotR was written right?

>>12850621
>REEEEE HOW DARE AN ANGLO WHO WAS BORN IN VICTORIAN TIMES WRITE A FANTASY WORLD THAT'S STRAIGHT, WHITE, AND MALE!
This is just as retarded as insulting Shakespeare for not putting black bisexuals into Hamlet. Why don't these idiots ever take historical context into account?

>>12850621
did he just fucking adopt the scandinacic AE? what a fucking culture vulture

>>12850621
He's factually wrong in so many places.

>The Chosen One is a tiiiiired narcissistic trope
It's a fantasy novel published in 1954-1955.

>Your world is too white and male and straight
It was set in a kind of fantasy medieval Europe

>ironically not fantastic enough
The book was deliberately set at a time when the fantastic elements were disappearing; Hobbits were practically mythical to most humans.

I can understand disliking it because the first novel's "morality of nature" theme can drag on a bit, and maybe you don't like the feast scene because you don't like heavy, luxuriating meals that last for hours on end, but he's taking a deliberately uncharitable view of the work by assessing it according to his own inflexible standards that completely lack context outside of his own immediate worldview. He'll never be satisfied with anything that's not basically tailor-made to suit him.

>>12851087
Because everything is a social construct except for their opinions, which are obvs eternal and universal truth. Haven’t you been paying attention?

>The chosen one is tired
The whole point of the books is that Frodo is able to do good because he is insignificant. He's not 'chosen' in the slightest, he just happened to be in a bad spot at a bad time.

>>12851087
the shakes was a white racist meme is the most ridiculous thing in the world, he was one of the most progressive dramatists there was.

>>12851187
well, he is chosen in the sense that the ring doesn't have full effect on him afaik

>>12851194
He's chosen in the sense that the ring affects humans the most

>>12850988

This

They are a distinct feature of /lit/ and a good one too

He's entitled to his retarded opinion.
Let him put it out there so the rest of us will know not to waste time on him.

>>12851237
oh, so any hobbit could wear? I thought he was chosen even in that sense

>>12850678
i fully agree with this post, i get the same feeling.
what's worse for me, though, is that every time i feel a sense of growth, or a thought that has a sense of impact on my life i forget it the next day, and it feels like i regress.

>>12850621
this looks like satire, is it satire?

>>12851264

I think the idea is that most good natured hobbits wouldn't be affected by the ring nearly as much as humans or other beings. Basically the more powerful a being is, the more the ring affects him. Frodo and Bilbo might be even less affected than other Hobbits but hardly in a "the chosen one" sense. Remember that Sam also wields the ring at some point.

>>12850621
>Your world is too white and male and straight -- and ironically not fantastic enough.
How is that? Isn't the majority of the real world non-white? Are not historically white countries full of non-white people? A world that is primarily white and isn't full of faggots is what is actually fantastical.

There is no chosen one in LOTR

>>12850621
how does a fully grown white male become like chuck exactly?
self-hate? jewish propaganda? xenoestrogens from plastic bottles?
honestly I really can't fathom it

>>12851289
I mean, isn't he actually saying that fantasy needs to be more like real world political crap? I don't get it. I don't want to read about that in a fantasy book. If I wanted that I'd just look at the news.

>>12850621
a guy who wrote far left SJW star wars books no one likes has typical far left SJW opinions on LOTR, so what?

>>12851289
>Are not historically white countries full of non-white people
LOTR isn't set in current year, it's set in a fictional pre history.

>>12851285
Yes. The ring was also given to Frodo rather than taken through force, which is also a reason why it affected Bilbo slower than other owners. Basically the more of a dick you are the faster its effects take hold. Anyone who thinks the story has a chosen one and Frodo was somehoe specialer than the other hobbits (aside from being part of a family of uncharacteristically adventurous hobbits) clearly doesn't understand how the ring functions or what it represents.

>>12850678
based and redpilled
no but really I completely agree with you lad and I totally understand what you're trying to get across

>I want to clarify I don't know who Chuck Wendig is.
fucking lmao

>>12851333
What does that have to do with what I said? He's saying the book is not fantastical because it is primarily white. But there is no reality that is primarily white, nor has there ever been.

>>12851349
>historically white countries weren't white

>>12851349
he doesn't say it's not fantastical because it's primarily white, he said it's not fantastical and too white

>>12851357
He says that history is not relevant to the issue. Read the last sentence of the posts. He's not talking about whether it matches history but whether it matches present reality.

>>12850621
>tolkein is bad
>why?
>BECAUSE HE WAS A FUCKING WHITE MALE
it's all so tiresome

>>12851371
I don't think you have a basis to make that sort of bifurcation in meaning when dealing with kind of PC complaint.

>>12851374
Tolkien was more inspired by history than the present

>>12851379
I'm talking about that guy's Twitter posts, not Tolkien's intentions.

>>12851378
I'm gonna knock you out

>>12850621
/lit/ is 90% shitting on lord of the rings, and 10% getting triggered by the libs when they shit on it.

>>12851383
You're changing the goal posts, douchebag

>>12851375
I agree. I used to take the more libertarian 'get off my lawn' approach to this kind of stuff and just try to detach myself from it all, but at some point I realised that it's never going to end and they aren't going to leave people alone so the only way to stop it is to make them stop with a boot on their neck. It's interesting how fast the left is able to push relatively middle of the road people to the authoritarian right.

OKAY WHO THE FUCK IS THIS GUY AND WHY SHOULD I CARE WHAT HE SAYS ABOUT ANYTHING

>>12851393
I am not. He says that Tolkien's work is too white and straight, not fantastical, and that history does not justify it. He's excluding history from consideration. So for you to then tell me, well Tolkien was influenced by history, it doesn't mean anything. The posts under discussion want fantasy books to reflect the real world as it exists today, insofar as it reflects certain political views. Whatever Tolkien was inspired by doesn't change the meaning of the Twitter posts.

>>12851401
fascism is the ultimate redpill, sadly

>>12850678
>YakBak
Holy fuck...a flood of mid- to late-90s memories just hit me. Good post, btw.

>>12850835

It's also not fantastical enough despite creating the modern conceptions of elves, dwarves and orcs.

Is it still a "Chosen One" when Frodo decides he's not going to throw the ring in the lava? The only reason the ring was destroyed was because Gollum stole the ring from Frodo then fell into the lava by accident.

>>12851378
i'm just saying that is literally what he said

>the chosen one trope is tired
>writes star wars fanfic
Huh?

>>12850898
> "dude grow up lmao"
> Reddit spacing
yikes.

>>12851194
He is able to resist it because of his personality, not because he has an innate ability to. The same goes for Samwise.

>>12851535
chosen one (straight, white male) is a tired trope
chosen one (pansexual, transracial xir-folk) is the new hotness

>>12851485
The reason the ring was destroyed is because through Frodo it commanded Gollum to throw himself in the pit near the end of the Two Towers.
That guy said he couldn't get into it so he probably didn't read it all the way through, possibly never left the Shire.

>>12851557
This but unironically

>>12851563

wtf are you talking about? This is absolute nonsense.

The very last thing the ring would ever want is to be destroyed. Through that end it fought endlessly to corrupt Frodo, at which it in the end succeeded. It was destroyed because Gollum then took the ring and then by accident (or rather fate) fell into the cracks of doom.

>>12850678
wait until you are 23

>>12850621
who does he think is the chosen one in LotR? The hobbits literally exist to counteract the "chosen one" trope - the entire point of the journey is that the only thing Frodo has is the trust of his companions. You don't even need to get through the entire first chapter to understand this.

>>12851507
You are naive if you think the two statements are not connected in meaning.

>>12850678
Good post desu fampai

>>12851635
I think they are connected, but i don't think they are so connected that you could translate what he's saying that that is the reason.

>looking down on Lord of The Rings, not because it is childish, but because it is insufficiently childish

>>12851586
It wasn't TRYING to destroy itself, but it ultimate did because it was sick and tired of being carried around by Gollum. The power the ring has is domination, reread the Frodo chapters of the Two Towers where Frodo tells Gollum to throw himself into the fire or however it went. then read when Gollum actually falls in near the end of RotK, it doesn't say anything about him tripping accidentally, just that he want too close and fell.

There was some quote from Gandalf or whoever about evil or hate 'harming itself', but I don't remember exactly.

>>12851621
He outright states that he hasn't actually read the whole thing, he's just going off memes.

He's right, though. At least the first half, he is

>>12851485
If Aragorn was the protagonist who destroys the ring as prophesied at the start of the book, that would be a chosen one style narrative of traditional myth. LotR was constructed to intentionally avoid the chosen one archetype that's prevalent in the myths that it's based on. The strength of the hobbits is their simple Englishness and moderate desire, the antithesis of the heroic spirit that defines the chosen one in all the Western European myth he had been studying.

>>12851675
He's half right.
So what?

>Your feast scene is too long

Is he talking Tolkien or GRRM? Tolkien only has one Birthday party scene and pretty much no 'feast' scenes at all after that.

>>12851679
There is no prophesy about the ring being destroyed at all. In fact it's constantly reaffirmed how hopeless destroying the ring is since no one would willingly do it. Gandalf outright says that it's hopeless.

>>12851657

The fact that you keep referring to the Return of the King as the Two Towers is some indicating that you have no idea what you are talking about.
Frodo tells Gollum at the end of Return of the King, moments before it actually happens that if he tries to take the ring again, he will perish in the fires of mount doom himself. He doesn't command him to do so, he forecasts his future. In fact the gift of foresight is one of the more common forms of "magic" in LotR. Frodo has it because of the ring. He is aware that in the grand plan of things, if Gollum has a choice between abandoning the ring or dying trying to have it. Frodo sees this and warns him. This is Eru's grand plan at work, not some plan of the ring. Truly that would be retarded. The ring know damn well that if it can get Frodo to take the ring for himself, it will inevitably be taken by its master Sauron which is all that it wants. Same story if Gollum gets it. They are at the heart of Sauron's power, they can never take the ring away from there.

>>12851683

I think the guy never got past the Birthday party and that's why its too long?

>>12851689
That's what I'm saying; LotR knew exactly what the "formula" is for a mythological hero (royal ancestry, heroic powers, divine protection, etc) and intentionally avoided it when coming up with characters. It's also insanely naive to call "the chosen one" a trope - if a person being paid to write novels in the fucking Star Wars universe doesn't understand the first thing about mythology or the heroic archetype that is literally the basis of all surviving ancient narratives, I don't know what to say.

>>12851690
I haven't read it in years, so my memory of it isn't too precise. There's no need to insult me.
I was referring to the Two Towers:
>‘I did not mean the danger that we all share,’ said Frodo. ‘I mean a danger to yourself alone. You swore a promise by what you call the Precious. Remember that! It will hold you to it; but it will seek a way to twist it to your own undoing. Already you are being twisted. You revealed yourself to me just now, foolishly. Give it back to Sméagol you said. Do not say that again! Do not let that thought grow in you! You will never get it back. But the desire of it may betray you to a bitter end. You will never get it back. In the last need, Sméagol, I should put on the Precious; and the Precious mastered you long ago. If I, wearing it, were to command you, you would obey, even if it were to leap from a precipice or to cast yourself into the fire. And such would be my command. So have a care, Sméagol!’

The power of the ring is in domination, not foresight. Sauron wouldn't have lost it so easily if that was his power.

Fellowship is my favorite in the series, I used to constantly reread the first half as a child. Hobbit shit is peak Tolkien IMO. I love stories about the eerie and sinister slowly creeping into comfortable environments. Twin Peaks is a good example. The horror doesn't work unless you sincerely enjoy this sentimental world that's about to be affected. Most horror stories don't get that. I think Stephen King gets it sort of. You need the sentimentality. You need to look stupid and naive in order to pull off true terror. Twin Peaks is incredibly sentimental, as is Tolkien, as is Dickens. All three of them manage horror and mood like masters. Peter Jackson was such an excellent choice for director because he made HORROR movies. Horror cinematography is everywhere in his LOTR adaptions, it's constant. Look at the camera angles, the character reactions, the focus on gore and blood. Shelob is a horror story. The Dead Marshes, how he incorporated the fantastic Old Forest sequence into Fangorn, Saruman's fingernails. the disgusting orcs... Everywhere he could he exaggerated the terrifying nature of LOTR into their unsettling extremes. That's why it's a memorable movie. Skipping The Scouring was a good move as well. It doesn't have as much emotional impact as the beginning of the novel because we don't see how the creeping horror evolves into its end product. We see the beginning and then we skip to the end. It feels rushed, as does its solution.

>>12851755
>I haven't read it in years, so my memory of it isn't too precise. There's no need to insult me.

If you haven't read it in years and hence you knowledge of it is inaccurate, you shouldn't speak like it isn't. You ask for insult when doing so. The ring has many powers and it absolutely gives Frodo both foresight and farsight.
Everything in that excerpt is Frodo speaking his own mind. He is warning Smeagol of the dangers the ring poses to him. He is not saying the Ring will cast him into a fire. He is saying he himself could command Smeagol to jump into a fire if he wanted to, using the ring.

>Twitter checkmark has faggy opinion

WOAH

>>12850898
based
sff is literally paperback capeshit

>>12850678
>yakbak
>topograhpical complexity
>pop-cultural associations
>a flattened two-dimensional plane full of undifferentiated swirling colors and distractions
good natural prose without going too far. keep on, anon.

>>12850621

I don't even understand what the fuck this guy is trying to say in the bottom Tweet. Seems like another boring nobody anyway, so who cares?

>>12850678

Nicely put, Anon

>>12850770

I feel that way sometimes, but I think being a "good person" is multifaceted and complicated enough that it's possible to have improved yourself and still feel like you've lost something from your youth. I know I was definitely a more selfish and cruel individual as a 16 year old than now, but also more innocent and with more wonder about the world. So it can seem like I was pure as a person then, even if I was a cunt

>>12851362
>the dead eyes behind the sunglasses
This man is ascended

>>12850621
Don't know who the hell that is but LOTR is just an overrated piece of crap. Not good, complex nor valuable, with the most annoying and incel fanbase.