/lit/ - Literature

Catholic Church, by many neutral observations and statistics, can be considered the largest sexual molestation organization in the world today.

The prevalence of pederastic homosexuality is 5 times more likely in Christian religious cults, than in the Islamic world.

Recommended reading before you begin your spiritual journey;
Pedophilia Cancer Within by Fr Patrick Bascio

There is something about the Christian faith and doctrine itself, that encourages homosexual pederasty. Perhaps the Father-Son dualism is to blame and root source of many perversions the practicioners develop.

>>12839200
bump

The bishop of rome is vacant. The Patriarchs are all equal, pope WAS one of them. The holy spirit emanates from the Father alone. Essence—Energy distinction. Fuck Aquinas. Augustinian Shield is wrong. Catholics don't seem to read the councils that they've themselves signed.
>although I'm not even christian

>>12839272
Mohammad, who the Muslims laud as the ideal man, diddled a 9 year old. Islam is basically the instruction to diddle 9 year olds.

>>12839307
And the Oriental church is even less Orthodox than the Catholic.

Difference in liturgy, orthodoxy still has the original liturgy that was sung during the time of the church fathers.
Difference in the preseption of trinity
In the stance on original sin
Obviously no pope all decisions about theology need a unanimous council vote.
Fasting and orthodoxy has almost half the year in fast days.
The euharist even children can take communion and the rules for it are a bit different.
This is a quick rundown.

>>12839339
>In the stance on original sin
Can you please elaborate?

>>12839373
Catholics believe everyone is sinful because of original sin
Orthodox believe everyone has the capability to sin but is born pure
Basically Catholics like putting babies in hell and Orthodox don't.

>>12839423
>>12839373
Or alternatively.
In Catholicism man is sick.
In Orthodoxy the world is sick and infects man.

WHY HAS NOBODY COMMENTED ON MY BREAK DOWN WHEN IT WAS MORE IN DEBT THAN THIS GUY REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>12839272
Lol don't blame Catholic perversion on Christian ideology. It's the same reason why the idea of police isn't necessarily a bad idea but it attracts the worst kind of people. It's a psychological profile that's drawn toward certain areas vulnerable to their desire and that's only part of the reason.

>>12839437
All the gay greeks moved west and became Catholics

>>12839200
OP, the Catholic apologists won't tell you this since it embarrasses them, but this is what a modern Catholic mass actually looks like:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YL9tmkBS9K0
Hopefully that helps you understand the difference.

They aren't terribly different outside of cultural. They usually agree on doctrine even when they disagree, like with the existence of purgatory. They both say it exists but the Orthodox call it something else and they may get angry if they hear you call it purgatory. For actual differences I think it all comes down to the primacy of Rome. They don't believe Peter was given a leading role among the apostles.

>>12839200
It is an unchristian religion, in the first place!' the prince resumed in great agitation and with excessive sharpness. 'That's in the first place, and secondly, Roman Catholicism is even worse than atheism - that's my opinion. Yes, that's my opinion! Atheism merely preaches a negation, but Catholicism goes further: it preaches a distorted Christ, a Christ calumniated and defamed by it, the opposite of Christ! It preaches Antichrist - I swear it does, I assure you it does! This is my personal opinion, an opinion I've held for a long time, and it has worried me a lot myself. ... Roman Catholicism believes that the Church cannot exist on earth without universal temporal power, and cries: Non possumus! In my opinion, Roman Catholicism isn't even a religion, but most decidedly a continuation of the Holy Roman Empire, and everything in it is subordinated to that idea, beginning with faith. The Pope seized the earth, an earthly throne and took up the sword; and since then everything has gone on in the same way, except that they've added lies, fraud, deceit, fanaticism, superstition wickedness. They have trifled with the most sacred, truthful, innocent, ardent feelings of the people, have bartered it all for money, for base temporal power. And isn't this the teaching of Antichrist? Isn't it clear that atheism had to come from them? And it did come from them, from Roman Catholicism itself! Atheism originated first of all with them: how could they believe in themselves? It gained ground because of abhorrence of them; it is the child of their lies and their spiritual impotence! Atheism! In our country it is only the upper classes who do not believe, as Mr Radomsky so splendidly put it the other day, for they have lost their roots. But in Europe vast numbers of the common people are beginning to lose their faith - at first from darkness and lies, and now from fanaticism, hatred of the Church and Christianity!

>>12839200
people born in Catholic-majority countries think Catholicism is retarded.
people born in Orthodox-majority countries think Orthodoxy is retarded.

>>12839310
>>12839437
>responding to bait

>>12839712
>responding to bait

>>12839373
Ancestral sin is what the orthodoxy believe rather than original sin
Original sin: we inherit the sins of Adam, and thus we are sinful and depraved from birth
Ancestral sin: we inherit Adam's knowledge of good and evil, which gives us a propensity to sin, but theosis is still possible.
Orthodoxy really is a beautiful faith.

>>12839200
papal supremacy and infallibity, and filioque are the main differences. both are a crock of shit
>inb4 church of peter and paul
You dummy niggas really think peter and paul wanted Rome, which was already recognized to have primacy among the other churches (i.e. a louder voice, but not a stronger vote), to be considered the dictator of the other churches administering to whole different sets of faithful? Catholics are our brothers, but the zeal with which they defend papal supremacy leaves a very bad taste in my mouth. It is simply not Christian. Also, the schism over filioque came first, and was used retroactively as a justification for papal supremacy. Filioque is hard to explain with words, check pic related.
Also big difference explained here:>>12839735

>>12839200
It's easier to LARP as a catholic.

>>12839200
mysticists will find mysticism in anything, but it is easier to engage with in orthodoxy. expanisive patristic tradition

>>12839272
>The prevalence of pederastic homosexuality is 5 times more likely in Christian religious cults, than in the Islamic world.
I don't necessarily reject this outright but gosh darn I need a source

>>12839437
why would molesters be attracted to a family-oriented community made up of the woefully naive?

>>12839774
You can convince me to become Orthodox right now by addressing one of the primary reasons I believe in the primacy of Rome.

In Matthew's gospel, Jesus asked his apostles what sorts of things people were saying about him. They gave him a summary of the current rumors. Then Jesus asked them, collectively, who they thought he was. And Simon answered for the group:

Simon Peter replied, "you are the Christ, the son of the living God." And Jesus answered him, "Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but for My Father who is in heaven. And I tell you, you are Peter and on this rock I will build My Church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

Note first that Simon served as a spokesman for the group, and he uttered a profound doctrine: the dogma of the incarnation (see Jn 6:68-69). Jesus explained to Simon that such truth could not be gained by natural means; Simon had received a special revelation from god. And Simon, with god's help, had spoken infallibly. Jesus then gave Simon a new name, Peter--literally, "Rock"-- a name that appears nowhere in the historical record before that moment. Jesus promised to build a divine edifice upon that rock foundation. He called the edifice "My Church"; for it would be not merely a human institution. It would be, in some sense, incorrupt, too: "the powers of death [or 'gates of hell'] shall not prevail against it." So we see that god himself gave a guarantee to preserve Peter's authority.

1/3

>>12839272
orthodox priests are allowed to marry

>>12839811
Now, some critics argue that Jesus referred to himself when he spoke of the "rock" on which he would build his church. They point out that the word used for "rock" is the Greek 'petra'--meaning a large rock--whereas the name he gave to Simon was the Greek 'petros', meaning a small rock. The critics say that Jesus meant, essentially, that Peter was a little pebble, and Jesus was the boulder from which the church would rise up.

There are several problems with that interpretation. First of all, Jesus probably did not speak Greek in this exchange. It is very likely that he spoke Aramaic, and his words were later translated into Greek when the gospels were written. In Aramaic there is only one word that could be used for "rock": 'kephas'. In Aramaic, there would have been no distinction between Peter's name and the church's foundation.

Still, critics might press the point, noting that the holy spirit inspired Matthew to employ two different Greek words in his written gospel. But Matthew did not have much choice. Jesus was speaking of a foundation stone, so 'petra' would certainly be the right choice; but 'petra' is a feminine noun, and so it could not have served as Simon's new name. A male could not adopt a feminine name; the name would have to be adapted, be given a masculine form. Thus Matthew, guided by the holy spirit, did something that was obvious and practically necessary: he used the masculine form, 'petros', to render Peter's name, 'Kephas.'

Was Jesus giving Peter a unique role in the church? The answer seems obvious from the remaining pages of the New Testament. Peter is everywhere, shown to be the chief spokesman, preacher, teacher, healer, judge, and administrator in the newborn church.

2/3

>>12839816
Did Peter exhibit any signs of infallibility when he taught doctrine? Critics might point out that, almost immediately after Jesus commissioned him, Peter fell; he contradicted Jesus, telling him he must not suffer. Jesus then reproved Peter in the strongest terms, calling him "Satan"! Critics note too, that much later in Peter's life, he found himself in conflict with Paul over the treatment of gentiles in the church. And Paul publicly corrected Peter! Now, how could a man graced with the charism of infallibility endure public correction by both Jesus and Paul?

We should note right away that both Jesus and Paul were reproving Peter not for his doctrine, but for his failure of will. Indeed, they were faulting him for not living up to his own doctrine. In Matthew's passage, Peter had moved from confessing the lord's divinity to rejecting the lord's will. In the conflict with Paul, Peter had moved from eating with gentiles himself to forbidding other Jewish-Christians to practice such fellowship. Both Jesus and Paul were exhorting Peter merely to practice what he infallibly preached.

Is there biblical justification for our calling Peter the "vicar of Christ"? Doesn't that put Peter in a place occupied by god alone? No, because Jesus himself had said to the apostles: "He who hears you hears me, and he who rejects you rejects me, and he who rejects me rejects him who sent me" (Lk 10:16). Jesus is clearly assigning the twelve as his vicars. He is telling them that he will act vicariously through them. And what Jesus said of all apostles is pre-eminently true of the prince of apostles.

3/3

>>12839811
choose whatever fairy tale gang you want, why would anyone on 4chan try to convert you?
you'll probably just end up in whatever one you were raised anyways

>>12839812
Actually they aren't; that's a common misconception. Married men may be ordained to the priesthood, but if one is already ordained then they cannot marry.

>>12839820
I'm not Catholic because I was born Catholic. I'm Catholic because my reason tells me it's true and I'll continue to be Catholic until that changes.

“In the city of Rome the episcopal chair was given first to Peter, the chair in which Peter sat, the same who was head--that is why he is also called Cephas [‘Rock’]--of all the apostles, the one chair in which unity is maintained by all. Neither do the apostles proceed individually on their own, and anyone who would [presume to] set up another chair in opposition to that single chair would, by that very fact, be a schismatic and a sinner. . . . Recall, then, the origins of your chair, those of you who wish to claim for yourselves the title of holy Church.”
-St. Optatus, “The Schism of the Donatists,” c. 367 A.D.

“They (the Novatian heretics) have not the succession of Peter, who hold not the chair of Peter, which they rend by wicked schism; and this, too, they do, wickedly denying that sins can be forgiven (by the sacrament of confession) even in the Church, whereas it was said to Peter: 'I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of Heaven, and whatsoever thou shalt bind on Earth, shall be bound in Heaven, and whatsoever thou shall loose on Earth shall be loosed in Heaven.'"
-St. Ambrose of Milan, “On Penance,” 388 A.D.

>>12839812
>>12839822
One of the dangers of Christian mystical experience is that the practicione misunderstand what is to become a "bride of Christ"

They mistake sexual identity for mystical state, instead of annihilation of their earthly identity and persona to Godhood, they declare "I have repressed my true nature all along! I am gay! I am a homosexual man" and all sort of degeneracy roams free

They may even start to declare "We are all Christs, we are all equal, we are all Gods"

True Christians should only study the Book of Revelation and Islamic Christ, the Doomsday Jesus that purges all the homosexuals, degenerates and blasphemers.

The Jesus of the Sermon on the Mount is a meek mouse type of figure compared to the Kalki avatara of Jesus expelling the merchants and the money changers from the Temple to cleanse it out of filth.

In this regard, the body is our temple, and degeneracy/homosexuality are the money-changers in a mystical sense.

>>12839816
if you want to talk apostles, John was the only one referred to as the 'Beloved disciple,' in the text, and then 'the theologian' by later church fathers.
if you want to talk about important members of the newborn church, Paul is easily more important than Peter. basically the entire second half of the new testament are Paul and John.
But even still, this all begs the question, what the FUCK does it have to do with Rome? This is like the decision to make Greenwich the Prime Meridian; it's a functionally arbitrary decision that disproportionately benefits an existing major seat of power.

>>12839853
if you think absolute love is meekness, you are already lost. lord have mercy

>>12839854
Rome is just a name given to the chair or office of Peter, which can exist in any place on earth. It doesn't matter. What exactly do you think being called a theologian or beloved disciple means? I don't see how it's meant to contradict my position. It's the same deal with Paul being a prominent father. The existence of multiple teachers or even great teachers like Paul doesn't contradict the primacy of Peter.

>>12839869
yeah, exactly. I can concede primacy. primacy isn't supremacy. the catholic church does no

>>12839878
sorry autoposted before i was finished:
the catholic church does not accept anything less than supremacy over the other Holy Sees, as I have understood it.

>>12839864
>Do not assume that I have come to bring peace to the earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword.

The sword is a weapon of war. Jesus clearly makes in multiple passages more than clear that he is the sword that purges, the ultimate cleanser of all filth

>>12839883
>>12839878
I think you're mistaken on what Catholics mean by primacy or supremacy because we recognize the spiritual authority of other the apostles and their successors, but when there's a conflict Rome has the final say.

>>12839889
yeah, and he will cleanse the earth when he returns. but until then:
Matthew 26:52
>Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.
He said that to Peter btw

>>12839902
So just sit back and accept homosexuality when the urge rises? Not try to the fight the urge, just go have sex with men without controlling your lust and be exterminated on the Day of Reckoning?

>>12839893
Of course, and the Eastern Orthodox church recognizes the spiritual authority of many of the Western Church fathers as well, but
> when there's a conflict Rome has the final say.
I don't think any of the scriptures you linked reflect this point.
>"the powers of death [or 'gates of hell'] shall not prevail against it." So we see that god himself gave a guarantee to preserve Peter's authority
This argument does not follow logically from that verse.
When the East and West were still in communion with one another, it was recognized that the Holy Sees had an equal vote in matters of doctrine up to around the 11th century. Like I said, the way I've understood this ( mostly from The Orthodox Church by Met. Kallistos Ware) is that the East and West fell out of communion for many reasons, language and culture being huge ones, but the filioque was the straw that broke the camel's back. Until that point, however, each Holy See respected Rome's position as the most important Church, but not as the final authority. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think I am.

>>12839917
wtf is wrong with you? I'm not gay, but there are plenty of men out there that are able to control their lust. I pray for them, and I'll pray for you

>>12839938
That verse isn't my argument. I'll summarize the original argument and then give scriptural evidence of the primacy of Peter.

1. The key imagery indicates that Peter will be given the office of prime minister in Jesus' Church,
2. The power to bind and loose gives Peter and his successors the power to absolve sins and to make definitive judgement in matters of faith and morals.
3. Therefore Peter and his successors are protected from teaching error, because God who is truth binds and looses in heaven what Peter binds and looses on earth.
4. During the last supper, at the very time Jesus predicted Peter's three-fold denial, Jesus also reminded Peter to fulfill his office by strengthening his brothers after he repented (Lk 22:31-32).
5. After the resurrection, Jesus confirmed Peter as the head of the church when he commanded Peter three times, "feed my lambs ... Tend my sheep ... Feed my sheep," then Jesus added "follow me" (Jn 21:15, 16, 17, 19).

-All of the Twelve Apostles are listed four times in the Scripture, and St. Peter is name first every time (Mt 10:2-4; Mk 3:16-19; Lk 6:14-16; Acts 1:13)
-St. Peter was chosen by the father to receive the revelation that Jesus is "the Christ, the son of the living God" (Mt 16:16)
-The angel told the women after the Resurrection, "Go, tell his disciples and Peter that he is going before you" (Mk 16:7)
-St. Peter is listed separately as a witness to the Resurrection before the other Apostles (1 Cor 15:5-6; Lk 24:34)
-St. Peter was charged by Christ to "strengthen your brethren" (Lk 22:32) and "feed my sheep" (Jn 21:15-17; 10:11)
-St. Peter proposed and presided over the election of St. Matthias as an Apostle and announced the requirements for candidacy (Acts 1:15-22)
-St. Peter was the first to preach the Gospel on the day of Pentecost, which was accompanied by signs of the Holy Spirit (wind, fire, tongues) and 3000 conversions (Acts 2:14-40)
-St. Peter defended the Apostles before the Sanhedrin (Acts 3:6-7; 5:15; 9:36-41)
-St. Peter exercised his authority to discipline Ananias, Sapphira, and Simon the magician (Acts 5:1-11; 8:18-24)
-St. Peter received a vision of the Lord in order to inspire the Jewish Christians to allow Gentiles into the Church (Acts 10:9-48; 11:1-18)

>>12839941
First of all, in all Christian mystical experience there is a homosexual element for males.

Traditional portrayal of Christ in various paintings makes him above-average looking guy. He is not some balding manlet, we can all agree on that. He is hunky and well-developed in various ways, after all, is not Human body the reflection of God's perfection according to various holy books?

To become a bride of Christ is also a process of sissification. You may deny this, or say "No you have got it all wrong! All wrong", but the truth is: all Christian males are sissies. Those who have still some fight left inside of them, quality of masculinity may agree with the following: > Nay! For I am of the Serpent's party: Knowledge is good, be the price what it may.
or:
>Better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven.

In a times like these, I do not consider too harmful if women "accept Christ as their bride", mass media has brainwashed the modern woman to become a whore, like they used to say back in the day " France the best women are harlots; in vicious England the best women are virgins".

But for men, in this day of age, when watching our native women getting filled with arab sperm and whatnot, I do not think, as for a spiritual path to become a "bride of Jesus" to join the "Eunuch of Christ" is a proper spiritual, initiatory path.

>>12839971
I'm depressed I didn't realize I was being trolled until now

>>12839310
Catholics believe that God impregnated a 12 year old girl with a baby version of himself.

>>12839955
I don't know the bible as well as you, so I'll have to concede the scriptural points. Imma read Acts later.
However, I don't think you should ignore the historical arguments, and you should check out Metropolitan Kallistos's arguments. He's an extremely gifted Orthodox apologist.

>>12839822
You have to be married to become a priest

>>12840037
>I don't know the bible as well as you, so I'll have to concede the scriptural points

Even though I do not want to sound superior or accuse you of being ignorant of the most Holy Book, the spiritual hierarchy of Heaven or Afterlife begins highest for those people who know the scriptures in and out, for they are closer to God, even if their deeds were more mundane, for we do not achieve salvation through our Deeds, but through Christ and Revelation.

This is a hard element to swallow for most people, that even a pious man who never harmed anyone, may be compared to a dog or insect in heaven to even those murderes, who just before their death, understood the Scripture and accepted Christ even seconds before their earthly death.

>>12840076
No, you're completely right. I want to read and study it more. I'm finally at a stage in my life where I can understand the book at a deeper level. I typed that sentence out with a bit of shame.

>>12839941
You are responding to bait. No actual christian would appear this deprived of christian fellowship that could set him straight. People that try to be christians but that have no IRL fellowship or a church or pastor to go to, fail.

>>12840095
>IRL fellowship or a church or pastor to go to, fail.

This is perhaps the most crucial element. No man, can achieve salvation alone. Christ needed John the Baptist. God needed Christ. The Holy Ghost proceeds from the Godhead.

Man who prays alone, is essentially doing a selfish act. For even if he was pious man, he essentially is only praying for his own self. Even if he would pray for the needy, the sick or others: God knows that he only prays for himself.

Those people who die alone, never reach heaven. For God hates those who have withdrawn from their community and Jesus consoles his lambs, but the lone wolves are consumed by the fires of Purgatory.

>>12839200
They're just two different forms of paganism.

>>12840037
Yeah I'll check him out. I don't mean to come off as believing the Orthodox don't have their reasons or evidence, I just don't it really adds up or is comparable to the arguments Rome can put forward. In my experience all I've gotten from them is various quotations from church fathers which they suppose supports them while they ignore the same sort of evidence which explicitly goes against them, like these >>12839851

>>12840073
No you don't; e.g. hieromonks, which are monks ordained as priests.

>>12839200
One is for beaners and scottish people, the other is for mid-wits.

>>12840115
incels and autists btfo

>>12840115
>Christ needed John the Baptist.
You God damn heretic

>>12839437
police are usually ok if they are locals, sending outsiders to police other communities is retarded

>>12839437
it's the other way around actually

>>12839557
but atheism is protestant anon

>>12840138
Thats because they are monks and can't Mary it's the exception not the rule.

>>12839272
>pederastic homosexuality
>homosexuality
That's an important distinction. Muslims are much more likely to fiddle kids they just do it to young girls.

>>12839272
this is only since the gay lobby infiltrated the church. it can be solved in 6 months with a new inquisition, probably won't happen though unless the church wakes up and stops bowing down to progressives as their moral guidance

also daily reminder that the inquisition did literally nothing wrong, it's just protestants projecting their shit

>>12839774
The filioque is based on a language difference, “proceeds” has different connotations in the respective cultures. Catholicism doesn’t suggest that the HS is somehow subordinate to the Father/Son, simply that the Father is the “uncaused causer”
and the same God.

>The mission of the Holy Spirit, sent by the Father in the name of the Son (Jn 14:26) and by the Son "from the Father" (Jn 15:26), reveals that, with them, the Spirit is one and the same God.
>”The Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father as the first principle and, by the eternal gift of this to the Son, from the communion of both the Father and the Son” (Augustine)

>>12840255
Dude every single bishop is a priest. None of them are married nor can they get married. You do not have to be married to be ordained.

>>12839272
>he doesnt know that the catholic church was overtaken by masonic elite during the cold war with the help of the rockerfellers.

Wew. Do you even read?

>>12840370
yea because a bishop you need to be a monk , if you are not a monk you have to be married.

>>12840214
The absolute state of retards

>>12840759
I mean, I kind of get where he’s coming from. Most atheists who I hear bashing God or Christianity, without fail, have a very Calvinist view of God, as well as a hyper-individualist view of humans where everything is about ME and no one else.

>>12840784
If you think protestants are responsible for atheism more than Catholics you live in a strange world

>>12840331
I am protestant and can confirm. we made up a lot of shit to distance ourselves from the papist and it turned around and bit everyone in the ass as those stereotypes kind of became universal christian ones.

>>12839568
negativeity bias, grass is greener etc.

to be fair, us catholics low-key created protestants

>>12839820
IDK he seemed he was open enough to discorse, even if someones opininos dont change, it is still healthy to converse, so i think its fine. if you are simply raging thats another thing.

>>12839864
I want to start a band called "Absolute Empathy"

Reminder that nearly all the recent interest in Orthodoxy has come from people who grew up as Protestants, became atheists in their teens and twenties, but are now drawn towards religion again. Their latent hatred of Catholicism still prevents them from joining Rome, but they've realized Protestantism was a joke. But Orthodoxy isn't Catholic or Protestant, and the monks have beards and occasionally wear skulls. The aesthetic seems cool and edgy, and they still get to bash Catholics. It's also an Eastern Church, so there's an element of Orientalism involved here.

Basically, don't trust the average internet Orthodox. They're in it for the aesthetics and the exoticism. They probably do not truly love Jesus Christ.

>>12840822
I think its a bit of both really

>>12840862
>occasionally wear skulls
please post examples

>>12840862
Partially this, but there are some true believers of Orthodoxism here.

I always found it kind of a shame that reactionism is such a major part of the modern west. its 100% fine to critique your forbarers, but you should try to understand and tske pride in what got us here. it would be great if a lot of westerners took the route of east asians: accepting Christianity as a part of their culture on face value, and those who want to delve in more to it can.

>>12840862
>has the word eastern in it
>means its oriental
subhuman iq but decent bait

>>12839568
>The church is the most trusted institution in Georgia. According to a 2013 survey 95% respondents had a favorable opinion of its work.[5] It is highly influential in the public sphere and is considered Georgia's most influential institution.[6][7]

>>12840862
All the Catholic parishes around me have fugly concrete buildings and do dumb Novus Ordo shit and rock music mass. The priests are also fairly liberal and ecumenical for no reason. There’s only one TLM church near me and it’s - surprise - a Polish church. Gee I thought ethnic churches was only an Orthodox thing?
Meanwhile the orthodox churches near me are in traditional church buildings, have socially conservative priests and still do the real Liturgy, not some watered-down 35 minute frankenmass. My orthodox parish is largely converts, and the current catechumens we have tend to mostly come from catholic or atheist backgrounds.
>The aesthetic seems cool and edgy
I actually prefer Latin aesthetics to Byzantine. Luckily there’s a Western Rite Orthodox parish near me that I sometimes visit.
>Basically, don't trust the average internet Orthodox. They're in it for the aesthetics and the exoticism. They probably do not truly love Jesus Christ.
You could say the same thing about internet Catholics dude. I’ve seen a ton who seem more interested in “muh crusades” and “muh statues” than actual church practice. Maybe we should try not judging the intents of others so quickly.

>>12839310
Sauce?

>>12839272
>than the Islamic world
I thought muslims had the lowest rate of homos, given that they throw them off rooftops after stuffing them with stones via stoning

>>12840992
His wife Aisha. Quick rundown:
>married when she was 6
>consummated when she was 9 (or possibly 10)
>almost all Muslims accepted this as fact from the hadiths for 1300 years until the 21st century when out of fear of progressives a few scholars tried to weasel out a different date
>despite what you hear from western, English-speaking Muslims, the vast majority still hold to the classical position and see absolutely nothing wrong with it

>>12841020
Was she pubescent?

>>12841026
Apparently she wasn't when she was penetrated but he would get off before puberty by rubbing it between her thighs.

>>12841026
It’s unclear and some sources conflict each other. However, the prophet’s behavior is often used as the basis for Islamic law, and they do say this:
>The permissibility of consummating a marriage with a girl is based on her physical strength and not on her age. If consummating the marriage will be injurious to her health then it will not be permissible to do so, although she may have reached the age of puberty. However, if consummating the marriage will not be injurious to her health then it will be permissible to do so, although she may have not reached the age of puberty. (Hashiyya Ibn Aabideen, vol 3, pg 204, HM Sa’eed)

>>12839774
Fililoque was literally a mistake.
It contradicts fucking everything.
fuck me

>>12839200
>...in a similar vain
>vain
You left your Freudian slip there.

>>12841059
Based

>>12839431
>In Orthodoxy the world is sick and infects man.
Is this real? I've been an unallied Gnostic for so long and this seems most in line with my beliefs.

>>12841123
He’s really toeing the line with Pelagianism. The Orthodox and Catholic views are basically the same.

>>12841142
In Catholicism mary was born without original sin.
In orthodoxy she was pure because she had never PERSONALLY sinned.
Orthodoxy and Catholicism are not similar "at all".

>>12841123
Gnosticism is retarded, the fall of the world is because the introduction of sin and death (because of Adam). Ancestral Sin in orthodoxy is not a innate guilt, what I meant with "the world" was that you are born sinless (except mortal) but other people and submission to temptations makes you sin and become impure; there are no children in hell.

>>12840073
If you're married before becoming a priest that's fine.

If you're celibate before becoming a priest then you can't marry anymore.

Peter had a position of honour among the apostles. Rome had a position of honour among the patriarchates. All of this is taught by Orthodoxy.
The citations used by Roman Catholics prove the above two points very well, and there's nothing wrong with that because again it is taught by Orthodoxy. But none of them are sufficient to justify their claims of papal supremacy. All apostles had the power to loose and bind, and all apostles were stones upon which the church was founded, with Christ being the cornerstone.

The only argument that is actually needed against the heresy of Rome is simple church history. NONE of the seven councils that officially defined the true Christian faith were initiated or presided over by bishops of Rome. Papism is not how the pre-schism church functioned.

>>12841620
so in orthodoxy, the world is wrong, and in catholicism, you are what's wrong with the world

i like the catholic one more

>>12839200
https://www.diffen.com/difference/Catholicism_vs_Christianity

>>12844327
it's literally the reverse
you and the world is corrupted by you, and only you are responsible for your faith

>>12844327
No. Don't listen to that guy.

Catholics and Orthodox both have the same Bible at their disposal, and the NT is pretty clear that everyone sins, that corruption of the human person is inevitable, and that humans are otherwise fated to except through Jesus Christ.

I don't know what the fuck he could have possibly meant by "the world is wrong but humans are okay". Without humans whats wrong with the world? There would just be natural order/chaos. Humans are invariably sick, with the propensity to cast themselves into corruption.

The other guys response to that, and his assessment of Orthodoxy is literally heretical.

>>12843514
Also the irony that Peter and Paul founded, with certainty, the see of Antioch.

>>12839272
fpbp

>>12844560
how binary do you have to be?
>what I meant with "the world" was that you are born sinless (except mortal) but other people and submission to temptations makes you sin and become impure
as in the only way for you be a sinner is to give in to temptation, this was the whole point, you are born sinless but through your actions you become guilty; and nothing else.

>>12840862
Almost everything you said is true of the catholic larpers. Were edgy atheists now becoming edgy catholics because they like the aesthetic.

>>12839200
based ice wizards

>>12840862
Vatican II
never again
you fucking cuck

>>12839200
one is nonsense with ketchup and the other is nonsense with mustard. i'm not saying which is which though. that's for me to know and you to find out.

>>12843514
What is the distinction between primacy, which you accept and supremacy, which you reject?

>>12844949
Not him but primacy means he gets to speak fist during the council meeting and no one can speak before him. But he has no extra voting power.

>>12845670
What the hell is the point of Jesus giving Peter that privilege? We can see throughout scripture that Peter isn't merely speaking first, but at the same time he is speaking with authority and acting with authority at the behest of Jesus who commanded Peter to guide and tend the sheep. The Church isn't and never was a democracy.

In the Davidic kingdom, the king appointed a cabinet of ministers (1 Kgs 4:1-6; 2Kgs 18:37). Of these ministers, one was elevated to a unique status. His authority was second only to that of the king, who gave him the authority over all other minsters and everyone else in the kingdom. This was a common practice in the Near East. For example, when Joseph became the prime minister of Egypt, Pharaoh said, "You shall be over my house [dynasty and kingdom], and all my people shall order themselves as you command; only as regards the throne will I be greater than you ... I am Pharaoh, and without your consent no man shall lift up hand or foot in all the land of Egypt" (Gen 41:40,44). The Symbol of Joseph's office was the signet ring that Pharaoh took from his hand and put it on Joseph's hand (Gen 41:42)

Now let's fast forward to David's kingdom. David ruled from 1010 to 970 BC. However, his dynasty continued after his death. Hezekiah became the king of Judah at the age of 25 approximately 265 years after King David's death. Hezekiah's rule from 715 to 687 was marked by a great religious reform. It was during his reign that Shebna, the prime minister or royal steward (Is 22:15) was removed from his office:

Behold, the Lord will hurl you away violently, O you strong man ... I will thrust you from your office, and you will be cast down from your station" (Is 22:17, 19).

Eliakim will be installed in his place as prime minister (Is 22:20-22). The symbol of that office is "the key of the house of David" (Is 22:22).

The point of Jesus' reference to Isaiah 22 is to indicate that Peter will also be given an office in Jesus' kingdom, which is his Church. That office will continue as long as Jesus' kingdom on earth continues. Jesus is the new Moses. Like the first Moses, Jesus established a priestly hierarchy in his kingdom. Peter and his successors are the chief ministers in that kingdom, the rock upon which Jesus will build his Church.

>>12839735
>Original sin: we inherit the sins of Adam, and thus we are sinful and depraved from birth
>Ancestral sin: we inherit Adam's knowledge of good and evil, which gives us a propensity to sin, but theosis is still possible.
the ancestral stance sounds quite reasonable desu

>>12839307
unironically based

>>12839480
oh no no no no no no no no no no no

>>12846143
There's literally no difference in actual doctrine. If you look in the Catechism, the Catholic Church teaches the exact same thing about the propensity to sin.

>>12839480
the absolute STATE of Catholicism holy shit

Orthies on the run

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_35whxfeY2I

Only niggers in Uganda actually believe Christianity.

Imagine being as stupid as a mud hut nigger...

>>12846239
Could do without the racism but I concur.
Stop being an Abrahamist.

>>12846231
>schism, no doctrine changed, will probably be mended just like the one in the 90s
Meanwhile in Catholicism...

>>12846245
You fucking christcuck

Go wash some nigger feet and turn the other cheek when he rapes your wife.

>>12846204
So you're telling me that Catholics don't believe in imputed, inherited guilt from Adam?

>>12846261
I'm not a slave to desire so I've become celibate and I would prefer not to wash the feet of any man who could do it himself.

>>12844570
Not that guy but, just out of curiosity, what is the reasoning for baptizing infants in the Orthodox church?

>>12846268
No they don't. Original sin is the privation of the justice given to Adam and Eve. Think of original sin as a castle given to a knight, by a king. Then suppose the king finds out that knight is a traitor and decides to revoke that gift. The sons of that knight aren't truly guilty of anything yet they're being deprived of their inheritance.

>>12846293
Baptism is how we are received into the Church. As infants are part of our families, they are part of the Church as well and are therefore baptized.
>The remission of sins, therefore, is granted alike to all through baptism: but the grace of the Spirit is proportional to the faith and previous purification. Now, indeed, we receive the firstfruits of the Holy Spirit through baptism, and the second birth is for us the beginning and seal and security and illumination s of another life.
St John of Damascus

>>12846255
>he doesn't go to a TLM, or at least a reverent NO

>>12840919
It's not unheard of to call countries with orthodox countries "the orient". What people consider the East has constantly shifted, but Greece and turkey were considered oriental for a long time.

>>12839808
Because priests can't fuck women, and some see their disinterest in them as a sign from god to priesthood.

>>12846438
The notion that celibacy is to blame for the sex abuse mess is ridiculous, and ignores that there are tons of pedos who are married. The vast majority of the world's pedos are probably married, come to think of it.

The real root cause of it, I think, springs from the 50s and 60s when the standards of admission to the seminaries were relaxed. It was all part of the "new openness" after Vatican II. They became much less selective about who they let in, and spent much less time screening them.

>>12839999
Quads confirm as absolute truth, the Christian god is a kid rapist.

>>12846456
It's got more to do with the simple fact that there's a lot of paedos who enter into celibacy thinking it will 'cure' them. So instead of getting real help they enter into a death cult that, if anything, makes them even more depraved.

>>12844555
>you and the world is corrupted by you, and only you are responsible for your faith
so exactly the same thing i said? where's the difference?

>>12846694
>the world is wrong, and in catholicism, you are what's wrong with the world
we are each the world

>>12846714
but the world is not made of people anon, there are sheep and piggies

>>12839480
Ok, now I get the gay accusations...
Damn boi, wtf is this bullcrap - fucking reggae and.... Damn

>>12846384
The existence of an extremely small conservative club (0.06% of the total priests in the Catholic Church, by my math) in a church of 1B members doesn’t change the fact that those guys still report to pozzed bishops who are a-ok with this

>>12839307
All heresy

>>12846796
>using frogtwitter buzzwords

It's time for you to leave, Anon.

>>12839200
>Also does orthodox Christianity contain any initiatic esotericism that can be undertaken in a similar vain to sufism for Islam.
Yes.

>>12846975
I don’t use twitter. Nice rebuttal though.

>>12844949
Imagine it like the relationship of an older brother to his younger brother.

>>12847108
This is nonsense.

>>12846975
1 cardinal. Literally just 1 who isn't a faggot

>>12847122
Thank you for this very substantial post.

>>12839272
Unironically based

>>12840862
not entirely true

>grow up Catholic
>entire worldview is shattered when you realize that the people assigned to guide you spiritually and morally are demonic homosexual psychopaths
>see Protestantism for the joke that it is e.g. Joel Osteen
>have some semblance of respect for Orthodoxy for keeping their traditions and actually staying true to their faith (Orthodox countries are the only countries in Europe that aren't completely dechristianized)
>still remain an Agnostic lapsed Catholic
>still picking up the pieces after concluding that the supposed "one true church" is a conduit of evil

what do I do friends?

>>12847217
>>have some semblance of respect for Orthodoxy for keeping their traditions and actually staying true to their faith (Orthodox countries are the only countries in Europe that aren't completely dechristianized)
you should literally thank communism for that

>>12847227
yes, I'm well aware that Communism essentially shielded the USSR and the Eastern Bloc from western influence thus those countries today are less "degenerate". Odd considering that the homegrown communists in the west are the epitome of degeneracy

>>12847174
You're one to talk. I ask for the difference between primacy and supremacy and you give me some shit about brotherly relationships. That is nonsense.

>>12846268
correct, it’s trendy in orthodox polemics these days to play down things like the sacrificial element of the atonement or make false or at least misleading statements about catholic formulation of common doctrine in an attempt to distance themselves from all things “western.” and I say this as an inquirer to both, not some radtrad angry catholic

>>12847253
>not some radtrad angry catholic

"radtrads" are useless. All they can do is vent on meme pages while geriatric homosexuals continue wielding all of the power and influence while simultaneously delivering the death blow to the church

>>12847253
Orthodox here, I agree that a lot of American Orthodox people (largely inspired by Kallistos Ware) try too hard to distance themselves from Catholicism (perhaps to attract more Protestant converts?) by over-exaggerating differences between catholic and orthodox theology, even when it’s stuff that’s from shared church fathers from the 1st millennium. Just feels disingenuous or like they’re trying to force Orthodoxy into a Protestant tent.

>>12839272
>Perhaps the Father-Son dualism is to blame
Repent lest ye perish

>>12839200
>like sufism in islam
Doesnt know that many of the most famous early sufist got excuted and crucified because their words and emotions toward allah and muhammad were so similar to christians' with jesus

>>12840370
Learn the difference vetween a monk priest,normal priest and a non married-priest. You are triggering me

>>12839311
The oriental orthodox are more orthodox than the easterners who are more orthodox than the catholic church.

>>12839853
Cant tell if insanely retarded person or a very high iq bait

I am a cradle Orthodox in a Roman Catholic country and you shouldn't really downplay the differences, it is almost like another religion, even in things that may seem similar like veneration of Saints and Mary the practices and way of looking at things is different. I don't feel like talking about theology but it is a totally different spin on things there also. Regarding the liturgical practices, I've been to an Adventist wedding of a relative and it feel like a Catholic ritual (I've gone to many of their ceremonies) minus the priest.

>>12839200
Convince me to convert to the Orthodox Church (it shouldn't be hard)
Also, I've heard a lot about the Catholic Eastern Church, someone can tell me what's that all about?

>>12848274
>Convince me

Why?

>>12839307
Palamism is not the defacto position of the orthodox church, it just has a much stronger presence there, so I don't think this really addresses the Catholic/Orthodox split OP was asking about. It is like saying Caths have nice cathedrals and prots pray in stripmalls. I am sure, but that is not the crux of their division.

>>12848692
The division is purely political, like all things related to Christianity

>>12848637
>Why?
Why not?

>>12847217
>>12847227
but see poland

>>12848274
The Eastern Catholic church is made up of a few local chuches of eastern rite, i.e. keeping the liturgical practices of the Orthodox east, but entered into communion with Rome at some point. They largely kept their orthodox liturgy and eastern aesthetic, but accepted the western ecclesiastical structure and, thus, its theology as well. The biggest of the eastern/byzantine catholics are the Uniates (slavic) and the Melkite/Maronite (greek and arabic) churches. Their monastic life and saints are very orthodox, but have united themselves to the pope.

>>12840303
Muslims only diddle girls in the former First World, since girls are freely available to them. In their own countries, you have to marry a girl to diddle her (as Mohammed intended), so for purely recreational diddling they go after boys.

>t. anyone who's been to a Muslim country.

>>12840115

oh i knew, i just needed to be a normie and indulge in lookism without realizing it to save myself

>>12847265
You overlook the fact that the vast majority of trads are young and the vast majority of Vatican 2 supporters are old. Time is wielding a cruel sharp sword against the supporters of Vatican 2. They're all dying and we're not.

Can anyone give me a quick rundown of Vatican 2 I know they have some liturgical changes but can someone elaborate more?

>>12839557
It is a bit of both, Protestantism is the child of Catholicism after all.

>>12848736
as i said, thank communism

>>12840877
Monks who have been said to have attained the highest spiritual state wear what is called a "great schema". The monks here are wearing it, and the one on the right has the skull and bones underneath the cross.

>>12840877
Here's another example

>>12849882
Pretty sure in symbolic of Jesus grave, that is why it's under the cross in a cave.

>>12847217
Society of Saint Pius X

>>12849882
those look scary
>>12849887
this guy looks friendly

>>12839200
Difference 1: The Papacy
Catholicism teaches that the Pope of Rome is the head of the Catholic faith, he can speak infalliably when speaking ex-cathedra, and has universal jurisdiction over the church.
The Orthodox Church teaches that the Pope of Rome is one patriarch of several, he is not supreme over the Church and doesn't have jurisdiction over ares not under his patriarchate. For the first 1000 years the Pope was accorded the "primacy of honor", this was due to the fact that the Pope was consistently Orthodox, and the fact that Rome was the capital of the empire.

Difference 2: The Filioque
The original creed composed at Constantinople says that the Holy Ghost "proceeds from the Father", at the council at Toledo (Spain) held somethign like 100 years after they added "proceeds from the father 'and the son'". This is the filioque, the idea that the Son proceeds from the Father AND The Son. If we give the West the benefit of the doubt they added it to the Creed to help counter Arianism which was widespread in the West but not so much in the East . The East saw this addition as wrong on several counts, first they saw the changing of the creed without a council of the universal church as wrong, secondly they saw the filioque as a distortion of God, that it subordinated the Spirit to the Father and Son, that God was no longer a trinity but a duality.

Difference 3: Essence Energy Distinction
In the West the doctrine of Absolute Divine Simplicity saw God as being utterly simple, that meant that God's mercy is the same as his hatred, that his love was the same as his providence etc, everything has to be reduced to one. This leads to the goal of Catholicism being "The Beatific Vision", that is when the soul sees the essence of God clearly.
Orthodoxy saw that the essence of God was utterly transcendent, that if the essence of God could be comprehended then God would no longer be God, he would no longer be supreme and transcendent. Instead Orthodoxy saw in God a distinction between his essence and his "energies", we partake in the energies but not in the essence.

There are other differences such as the idea of priests being married, the bread used in the liturgy being leavened or unleavened, and whether or not divorce is permissible or not.

>>12849891
I think it is symbolic of Hades, of death itself, which is conquered by Christ. I think it also symbolises Adam, as according to tradition Jesus was crucified over Adam's grave or something like that.

>>12839557
uhm... isn't this an outburst from The Idiot? Hippolyte was it?

>>12849668
The gist is that the "spirit of Vatican II" introduced a heap of liberalism into the Catholic church, such as women being allowed to become altar servers, communion bread being given by the priest into people's hands, etc etc.
Basically Vatican II messed up the Catholic Church by liberalising it, the Church wanted to remain relevant by modernising the church, but has really diluted the faith.

>>12849962
It is from the Idiot, but it is Prince Myshkin giving the speech, not Hippolyte.

Catholic church is the descendant of smelly German barbarians cosplaying as Romans

Orthodox church is the descendant of smelly Macedonian peasants cosplaying as Romans

Both think they are The One True Way, ignoring that the Word of the Lord has been twisted by centuries of political manipulation

These westerners that "convert" to Orthodoxy are bloody cringe, it's just a facade, it tries deliberately to be aesthetic and dark so it attracts the rebel youth. Don't lose your way brethren, Catholicism is the original; Orthodox church is not "the original church" like it claims, when the Turks entered Constantinople they adapted the rites to Islam so, it dates back to around 16th century, merely a bunch of years before Protestantism was born

>>12849937
>and whether or not divorce is permissible or not.
>divorce is permissible
D R O P P E D
R
O
P
P
E
D

>>12849962
>the prince resumed in great agitation and with excessive sharpness
Yeah it was probably Hippolyte

>>12849891

it's Golgotha silly

>>12850023
>Golgotha means place of the skull
You learn something new everyday

>>12849986
The irony is that Orthodoxy allows a maximum of thee marriages, but from what i know of Catholicism there is no actual limit of marriages you can contract., so long as your wife died or you got an annulment

The skull just represent sacrifice, death and rebirth.

>>12839200
w2c rives

>>12849639
even after they die the status quo boomer church will trudge on while the "radtrads" continue to become more and more irrelevant and it probably doesn't help that radical traditional Catholicism is an SPLC designated hate group

>>12850980
>radtrads
most converts are radtrads, doesn't matter how much the church cucks to progressivism that direction doesn't seem to appeal to new converts

still you are probably right as the church will remain mostly the last few families that keep being religious and not converts or "secular catholics" coming back

>>12839480
Thats just America. Protestant masses are the same it has nothing to do with Catholicism.

>>12849668
Nostra Aetate of Vatican 2 teaches that Muslims worship the same God as Christians.

>>12851061
Catholic mass looks more and more protestant, retarded songs, guitars, a table instead of an altar, the priest turning his back to God, everyone touching the sacramental bread with their hands, women giving the holy communion, etc...

>>12851027
the church is a walking corpse. The break off groups like SSPX, the radtrads, etc have no influence. Cardinal Nolan stood right next to Cuomo when he announced the legalization of late term abortions. The church is gone and it's been gone. I don't take any pleasure in saying that either. Even if the radtrads grow in numbers they will just be considered cultish weirdos like Mormons or David Koresh and not real Catholics

>>12839480
What's the big deal?

Don't you think that a thousand years ago colorful drapes, candles, and gold served the same purpose as today's mics and flood lighting?

The Church needs more electric guitar solos

>>12847217
> >have some semblance of respect for Orthodoxy for keeping their traditions and actually staying true to their faith (Orthodox countries are the only countries in Europe that aren't completely dechristianized)

Now you are just telling yourself tales about the Orient. Most of ex-Communist block population has New Age deliefs with the old decorations, and Moscow Patriarchy has even been formed and controlled by KGB since the middle of the previous century.

>>12849964
> diluted the faith
> women treated as people dilute the faith
I think you mistook Church Service Handbook #268 for the Bible.

>>12839200
Alright lads, give me a quick rundown here.
What are the doctrinal differences of the catholic and orthodox churches?

>>12839272
true, but i am not going to give some off shoot of original more respect just because of few bad eggs.

>>12851653
>few bad eggs

An international child rape cartel isn't the same thing as a few bad eggs

>>12851726
True
Jews and proddies should be arrested

>>12851515
Russia has built thousands of churches since the dissolution of the USSR and actively promotes Christianity. Western countries put sexual deviants of all stripes front and center

>>12847227

Greece?

>>12851639
See
>>12849937

>>12851738
> Russia has built thousands of churches since the dissolution of the USSR
This only takes bricks, concrete, and vacant lots (that are transferred rather than bought).
> actively promotes Christianity
Christianity is not a political movement, you idiot.

>>12852001
Part of why the west hates Russia is that Russia is rapidly rechristianizing thus impeding the globohomo agenda

>>12851838
Thanks

>>12851726
That is honestly peanuts compared to the shit going on orthodox churchs.

>>12852824
Why do you lie?